 Welcome to ToffeeTV, quiet week until the storm hit on Friday night, Baz. Was it a quiet week? It was, in terms of, there was some news, was what it was. The stadium project consultations went out and Evan extended the fanatics deal. Yeah, quite, it was quite weak. Not really mattered in terms of that. To this 40 page documents are made online, but we now know it's a real document, a real, it's not fake, it hasn't been faked, it's a real consultation document with some images in, some images of stadiums, some images of, say, standing and stand steepness and just giving an over arched view of what a potential new stadium could look like on the banks of the Royal Blue Mesa. What were your thoughts on what you saw, first of all? It's difficult in it because it's still, it's very much like images of, I think when you're looking for stadium images, I think you want to see better quality pictures and how it's going to look from a certain aspect. I think just looking through the documents, it's quite obviously more technical document than it is for fans, say, to give you that overview of it. I think reading into it, yes, there's, you know, people have pulled up what Dan Mish put out or give his presentations at, you know, the chairs and stuff and have made comparisons with it and how things have changed and then, but even then, the images that he showed at those consultations, I don't think were finalised anyway, they were just examples, I think, and I think this is just examples, I'd be surprised that this is how it will ultimately be when it goes into planning. So, I don't know, I mean, that's the main thing, the main thing I'd take from it is it's not a planning document, they are blueprints, these are, like you've just said, images to show you or show people what it may look like or what the footprint would be, you know, which way the stadium would be facing, things that might surround it, how close it will be to the road, how close it will be to the river, where it would sit, all those kind of things and whereas it's lovely that we've got a little bit more information, it's also, it's also just a little bit misleading, I think, on what the stadium will look like personally. I don't think the stadium from the outside is going to look like that, I think that it's just a skid that has been put on it just to show it's a stadium, I mean, the picture from above, it's just like white, isn't it, it's just white, it's just, it's just showing you what. And that thing with Everton, isn't it, Robert Elstone used that image a few years ago on a presentation show. And I just think that's what they've done, they've just took a rough image just to use it as a, just a comparison or just to show people what, you know, a stadium would look like. So it's nice that we've got a little bit more documentation, but I think people are getting a little bit too bent on to shape about the designs, because I don't, that might have said himself and I think to get the plan of permission, I don't think it could look like that to get the plan of permission, it's got to be in keeping with the surrounding area. It's going to look like it's come off the brand, isn't it, of what's gone before, a big white roof. With a big glass crust. I don't think that's going to happen. Sure, that's going to happen. There might be one element of it that's glass with the thing, because he did talk about the brand and look up to the city, but I think it'd look a bit different than that anyway. I think in terms of the homing, one of them's a big, steep homing, I think it looks fantastic. I think in your mind, what I can see, whether it looks like that anyway, but just when you're thinking about how it could look with the blue seats, I think that looks... Well, the inside, I mean, the inside of it, I think that's slightly different, because how many different ways can you do the inside of a brand, you know what I mean? You're looking at space at the moment, space has got that fantastic one piece in, but the rest of it looks like a bulkier white-art line, I mean, the outside looks absolutely amazing, but the inside is what it is, it's an amazing cheese, by the way. No, they've got me to the cheese room, which is really disappointing, yeah. What can you do? No, I think you're right. I think there's only so much you can do with the stadium inside to make it, you know. I think it looks fine, kind of the way it is. It's not a bowl, and he said it wouldn't be a bowl, and it doesn't look like a bowl. I don't know whether they've... It's difficult, because I know, speaking to John Blaine, he's talking about, you know, different scalings and executive boxes and stuff like that, we don't know whether they're going to cut those executive boxes down, or whether we need more for corporate. There's a lot of stuff about how much the price will be and, you know, the capacity, but if they're doing a 52,000-seater stadium when Dan Meister is doing it, then... And this is a 52,000-seater stadium, then how can it be smaller? Well, this is one of the pointers that I've been looking on social media. To be honest, I haven't really been getting involved in the conversation because this all goes over my head a little bit. Not that I don't understand it, it's just that it's not the final design, so it's a little bit premature, but what we have seen is we've seen Dan's and the comparisons with other stadiums. Now, there was pictures taken from the consultation in St Luke's that got leaked again, they got leaked those pictures online, even though we were told we would get to see those pictures to be unofficial, it was never made official. Now, they have been scaled down slightly, and that's been worrying people. Now, do you think those original pictures, the reason they've been scaled down is maybe those original pictures were for the larger stadium, maybe a 60,000, all-seater, right? I'm just throwing this out there, maybe they were for an all-seater 60,000 stadium, and maybe what's changed since then is that, now because of what they think with rail seating, and the fact that it looks like there could be a change in the legislation, do you think maybe what they've done is simple? Well, we can make this a slightly smaller stadium, but with the 52,000 plus whatever we get with rail seating, that'll add up, and maybe that will help the final planning permission, because then it doesn't look like a big, stupid thing, and it looks like something that it is in keeping. Possibly. Possibly. It's hard to know where the original scale is, when he done the... I didn't go to the presentation, so I don't know what people have reported, but I didn't hear with my own ears what Batman might have said about that situation, so he could come back and go, they were just examples of, you know, first-parts, orans, or first-parts, whatever, to give you some idea. I don't know. They could quite well be what you just said. Originally, they thought 60,000, can you build it, than a 60,000, and he did, and now, they've had a look at it, and they're looking at costumes, and they're looking at... Yeah, we can have 52,000, we'll be rail-seating, we can have 62,000, because that's what they've said, haven't they? Yeah, that's what they've said. That's what they've said. We're not making that up. Well, that's quite clear, out there, they want 62,000 capacity if rail-seating changes, so, and listen, I'm a firm believer that it will change very quickly, and everything will be able to go up to 50,000. We've seen things change all the time, Tottenham were having a cheese room, and now they're not having a cheese room, so... Well, we know Tottenham have got rail-seating in their stadium. Well, they've got the facility to put it in. Wolves put it in. Well, listen, let's just clear something up. You can have rail-seating right now in your stadium. You're just not allowed to have the seats bolted up. It's got to be permanently in the seating position, but if you want to put those seats in your stadium right now, there's nothing to stop you. It is Wolves are looking at this, but they're putting an area of this ground that doesn't house fans, if that makes sense. So they're not using it on a match day, but they're putting it into an area of the ground, and I don't know why, but it's to see. I think they're going to do some experimentation with it and maybe open it. But the idea is that you can put, though, and I spoke to John Darsh, a safe standing expert in the UK. We're going to speak to him next week about this. And he said, you can have those seats now. You just can't use them for standing. But some clubs are looking at it, instead of we put them in. Maybe, like in an away end, where you've got a problem with people standing up. You put them in, because those people are going to stand anyway. It's safer to have this kind of seating. But it is a seat. It's just that it's got that. We think that we're doing that with scaling it down, if that's what's happened. And we still don't know. People are just putting the two together. They could quite well before. They could be spot on. No, no. We've got no clue. It's because the concourses and stuff have got to be bigger if it's going to be rail seating quite clearly, because when the seats, it's 52, and when the not seats, it's a 62. Isn't this the problem or the whole thing is that we're guessing? Because at the end of the day, this is a leaked document that has got nothing behind it, other than what it says. And we've got context. And anything we've got to compare it to was also leaked. So you're right. There's no context to anything that we're talking about. We're just talking about leaked images. And we're trying to do our best with them. But they're there. They're genuine. The club, apparently, have launched an investigation to how they got leaked. So they are genuine. It's just not... These are just not the final plans. I think that's what we've got to get over to people. I just think that it could be some... You're right. It could be somewhere in that. It could be that while we're jostling for ideas internally at the club. They're coming out with all different things. What about this then? What about this as a scenario? And I don't know whether you think this could be a reason for it, but whether this negative that the club has seen could actually be turned into a positive as far as the club has concerned. By coming out now, it gives a lot of people the opportunity to throw the... Are you saying these might be they're being purposely leaked to get the atmosphere amongst the fans? I'm just asking the question. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying now that they have been leaked could... Oh, the club should be using this as an opportunity to gauge public reaction because before the plan goes in and we know it can be changed up until literally half an hour before it's submitted, it gives people the opportunity... They only use a couple of pencils with a rubber on the end. Yeah, of course. You've got to have them. You've got to be ready to... You know, and that could be a way of testing the water. I personally think that when we kick off any more, that our capacity will be above 52,000. That's my personal view. Again, I don't know that because I just don't know. But what I'm going to say is that if these got out... Let's just say they have been leaked by someone at the club. I'm not saying they have been. I'm just saying if they have been, I think that would have been a clever strategy. I think the fact is that you can gauge ideas by listening. It's not listening. It wouldn't be the first time an institution has released something to gauge how the public feels. The government do it all the time. All the time. People do it. People do it in every walk of life all the time. They'll leak something. Then you've got plausible deniability and you can go, oh, no, no, that's not real. When it was the first ever plan or whatever, things that we do, people do it all the time for everything. It gives... You can then gauge the... The club, let's be honest, the club can be looking around. They can be looking around. What we talk about, what other sites talk about polls, people they feel have a vested interest online, whatever, and gonna go, oh, they don't. Funny enough, we've got something on our Twitter page today about the badge. It's just five years since the badge or something was gonna get changed. Right? So, it's like that again. People, they looked online, seeing the fans hated. There was a... There was a... thing you all done. Petition done. And the club scene, that fans didn't like it. And then they said to the fans, well, what do you like? Went away, got it, made the badge. Now, okay, you can't do that with a stadium. Of course you can't. But by just seeing, by looking online and talking to people, you can gauge what works and what doesn't work, and then you can use that in the final plans. Of course you can. What do you think people's biggest issue with this? I mean, I think there's two problems with it in terms of for some people. I think it's the wording of what the club has said. It's an iconic stadium on the banks of the Royal Blue Maisie. Right? So by making it smaller on those designs from what was on the other designs, people are instantly gonna say the doom munga's out there. Or just people who want to see Evan be the biggest thing in the world or whatever are gonna go, why is that one bigger? Why is this one smaller? Because if it's going that way, then how much more will it go that way? So instead of going, so really it should be going that way and going, well, if you're listening to us, it shouldn't be 50, it should be 60. But it's not it, people will look at it and go, there's only 52. You're saying it might get to 62. And it's getting smaller. So how much more will it go smaller? And that's, I think that's the problem, isn't it? That's the real problem that people are gonna come up with. The other one is, I suppose from this pit is how it looks. People are gonna look at that and go, oh, that shite looks like KB or whatever. Whereas that's a big problem with that is that's not gonna look like that. Like I'm 99.9 short that it won in a thousand that it will not look like that. Because that goes against, that's not just a creative. I thought that's an actual getting it through planning permission. That's going to, you've got to go to, you know, the world heritage people who clearly don't want this thing in the first place and say to them, this is not gonna mess with the waterfront. This is not gonna ruin the front of it. Maybe if you didn't have world heritage or whatever, then you could go, we're gonna put this big glass thing on the front and it's gonna be amazing. But number one, why would you do that anyway? Why wouldn't you want to have something iconic that fits without it being an ISO? I want it to look like the surrounding area and make it fit and make it look. Do you not think it, if it stayed a 52, we're all not happy with 52,000? I'm not happy with 52,000. I'm not asked. If it gets to 62, yeah. No, no, no. That said, yeah, sorry. My point is, I've got no problem with the shape standard and it's taking it up. Really, I think it's clever. I really do. I'm not happy if it stays a 52,000. No, no, no. I'm really not. That to me is too low. But I still think, even if it was 52,000 to start with whatever, I still think it can be iconic. Of course it can. Because Yventus holds 43 and looks iconic. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Can I ask you a question though? And I think this is, I think this is something that hasn't really been spoke about as such is. Right. Is it iconic because of what it looks like or is it iconic because of where it is? Right. Because we, what if someone said to, what if they had the two on the, you've got the two places, Bramley Mordoch East Lanks. Right. What if someone had said to you, we can, to that land, there's a lot of land, there's nothing stopping us from doing whatever we want. Literally, and we can surround it by a big ever theme park if we wish. It doesn't matter. No one's stopping us. We can do whatever we want. That's ours. And then you've got Bramley Mordoch, confined area, smaller footprint, less room to work on, a river on one side, a road on the other side, waking docks, a sewage plant, waking docks on this side. Right. You can find to what you've got there. So, what if they tell you, man, we just can't make it any bigger. So, there's your church. Do you want to ever, a big Everton, you know, Everton World. Everton Land, like, Disney World. We can have whatever you want. Or do you want something that is in the most iconic spot. It's going to look amazing. It's going to look, when you come down the river, night shots of it from planes and drones, and are going to look amazing. Isn't that the trade-off that we've all sort of signed up for here? Because I don't remember that many people saying, it's got to be the ranks. Every single person I spoke to wanted Bramley Mordoch because he was iconic. It was something that was going to separate us from the rest. It was going to put us in a place that was going to be, it was going to be right near town and was going to just, going to, going to elevate us from being one thing, maybe to another thing. Instead of having an out- almost like an out-of-town experience. Once again, put on our Twitter 65,000 plus East Slanks Road, 52,000 plus Bramley Mordoch, poll, just see what people go for. You're absolutely right with that because at the time we were giving Stone Cross Bridge whatever it was called. That was one of the sites. If we'd have gone for that, there'd be bricks and mortar coming out the ground now because it was planning permission with the sale through. We could have built whatever. We could have built 70,000 stadiums. Could have what we wanted. Right. Or Bramley Mordoch. Now personally, 70,000 on the East Slanks of 55,000 I'm going to go for because that's not pushing the envelope too much on Bramley Mordoch. I take Bramley Mordoch every time. Every time. Every time. And that's about 15,000 less than what you could have had in East Slanks because it's for all of those reasons you've said with our own entity and Bramley Mordoch, we're not. We haven't got the other noisy neighbors in our vicinity. We're in the heart of the city. We're on the waterfront. We're surrounded by that fantastic architect. We're helping regenerate the part of Liverpool. We're going to, we're going to, you know, town is stretching. Oh, I said, I walked last week. I told you this. I got a train to Moorfields from here. Right. And I walked literally to where the new ground is to pick my car up. And it, I was on my own at seven o'clock at night. And honest to God, it was a nice little walk. It, I cut through the back of Old All Street. I was going, you know, nice buildings around me, nice sort of environment. And then I cut, cut down on two great Howard Street. Um, and I never once felt like on my own or, and you imagine that on a match day with more fans around you, with more things there, as, as, as you just said, as town pushes outwards. And I was tense. And there's nice, and there's nice bars and there's places to go for a drink. So that's where, so that's where I, and I think a lot of other I think would, would have chosen that. If they would have come out at the very, the very start of this, right? And gone, right? We're moving from Goddison because we have to. And your two options are 65,000 plus on the East Lanks or 55,000 on the banks of the Royal Blue Maze at Bramley Mordor. But what do you, what do you think off the top of your head? What do you think? I think people would have gone for the 55,000. That's what we'd went for, wasn't it? As a fan base, that's what we went for. And we got all excited when we were, when we were going to get that pail and never sign that over to who owns the lamp pail. I thought it was the council and we, we pushed and we pushed and we pushed and we pushed and I think people forget all this. And I'm sorry for all the people out there who'd be like, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, maybe you'd be your apologies for the club. No, this is what we wanted as a fan base. Let's remember that. For me, if the club is really wanted, wanted to go its way, it'd be so much easier. Cheaper. Cheaper. And you, and you know what happens then is, for me, what Brownie Moore will do, it actually, it concentrates the thinking. It makes it a tougher design. So that damn mice has to start thinking, how do I do this? How can I make this? I think that number one is amazing because it's got to be amazing because of what surrounds it. Because like, because it is Liverpool. Because it can't, it could just be whatever on this one. Yeah, it could just be a right soulless bull or, you know, something that looks boss now, but in five years goes, that hasn't aged too well. I just think, I think, I think the problem, I think from a positive point of view, being where it's going to be, is that surrounding area, it is that, you're buying into that area, right? I think it's going to attract more people and there's no football. Because it's in the city centre, it's on, you come down a cruise like, oh, there's more staff for these days, we do it. You go to a city, you want to go and see the, where there's, are people going to get off a, I know, look at, look at Bill's, Bill's house. It's not going to matter to some people, right, but, you get off a boat on the pier head, you're not going to go, what was that? Take me to the East Lanks, to look for evidence. They've been to the East Lanks. You're not going to, but if you pull up on it, you pull up on a sticky cap on a thing there and you see that stadium, you're going to attract all that, which means that bars and cafes and restaurants. Look at somewhere like Bill Bow, right, Bill Bow Stadium is amazing, the way they've done it, right. My mum, dad went on a cruise ship, they went to, and they, and they went past it, and my dad was like, oh, there it is, let's go. I had a little look, I've got a little pen, and it's like, that's amazing. It looks amazing. I'm not saying, I mean, the club itself is not, I mean, it's not a massive world brand, but it doesn't want to be only pick local players, but that stadium is, I read it a piece out last week, to move to that stadium. It meant something because, if you read up on it, on Bill Bow, they are the Basque team, they only take players from the, who are brought up in the Basque country or born in the Basque world. They don't want to be a world brand, they want to be who they are. So that ground, it means the world to them, and how they built their ground was amazing. They basically built, like Tottenham's, but they built it, and then, played the final game, and they knocked it down, they quickened it, and then built the stadium, and it's an amazing, and it's a bit like, well, hopefully, I'm hoping, the brand most people look like, this iconic thing that you look at, look at from the river. It's slightly different because it's slightly higher up, but it's an amazing, but it's that kind of feel that we're looking for, something that just, you look at it, stand back and go, wow, wow, look at that. Do you think the club could have, it's so fun, do you think the, I'll ask you a question, do you think the club should recognise this, and say to people, what do you think, or do you think they should stay well clear of this? That was going to be my question to you. I was going to say it's a tough one, because if they're trying to do things, but this is not for the public, that was it. No, but I'm saying to you, if they're trying to do things, in a way, building up to planning, I don't know, the consultation's been planned for May or June, which incorporates images and all that. Now, as far as the reporter last week, this isn't going to be the document we see anyway, so we're going to see stuff that, stuff that we like and we can vote on, something like the damn mice are going to put like, homeless cats. Yeah, hanging down, everything, you know, whatever. But do you think the club should have come out and done an official statement then, not fed it to the echo? Come on, go. Well, hang on, they fed it to us, let's be honest with them. I know, I know, but they're going to feed it to people, but do you think the club should come out and say, listen, this isn't this? Well, they did, but that's what they did. They got in touch with people like us. No, no, but I'm saying, that's what they did. They did that, they did it the way they do everything else. They got in touch with us and said, put it out, you know, make sure that it's, you know, it is the real thing, but it's not from us. But I know what you're saying, should they've done it in official, they should've thrown it up now and say, look, our plans are still to be bigger than $52,000, because I think people, I think people are looking, right. People are looking. Can I, people have, hang on, people have messaged me today saying about it and stuff and going, what I don't like, is the fact that it was bigger and it seemed to be in scale. Can they, could the club not head that off and go? What are we missing here? What are we missing? We're missing quite a few things. But what are we missing in terms of, what are we missing in terms of communication? A chief engagement officer. We're missing somebody. A chief engagement officer. That badge thing. We're missing somebody. Maybe not even that. We're missing somebody who could have come out and said to us, that's not, that's not, that's not accurate. Accurate, whatever. That's something, that's an internal document that is used to do these things. Someone that the fans trust. No specifics, are we? No, but that's what the club are missing, are we? The club should have come out. But they don't have a human being at the club, we can do that. They don't have someone at the club whose job it is. And, all right, we're crossing, crossing into something else now. But the club don't have someone who can come out and talk to fans and go, not last week, you sent me that thing from Tony Barrett, where he got into it with like Liam Gallagher and everybody. And people go, that's dead unprofessional. I don't think it's brilliant. I love it. I love everything that Tony Barrett does for Liverpool because I think it's brilliant. He talks, but it's not professional. But what it is, you'd say that because it's Liverpool, because it's Liverpool. If that wasn't it, if that wasn't it. I just didn't. I didn't see his point of, and he's still checking, or now using 9th or something, whatever it was. But the point is, he was fighting. He does it all the time. He is the, he is the fan's representative at the football club officially. And he was just putting it out there. No, he was putting it out there there as himself. But what I'm saying is though, he is somebody that you can talk to at Liverpool and then can run laid up because that's his job. And that's something we don't, we need to live at the football club and be sitting there for ages. We had one. We had the best one. He's gone. We need another one back. We need someone that can come out on Friday night and go, like that, relay the things that the club are trying to relate to, like the echo and trying to relate to us. Why doesn't someone have, why haven't they got someone at the club who can do that? Do you know what? How hard would it be? Honestly, how hard would it be to have someone who works for the club just pick up a phone and go, right, right, everybody. I believe there's a document going around Twitter. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's for this, whatever. Stick that on Twitter and everyone watch it and everyone go, okay, now we know, now we know where we are. Why do you need to go through all the, it doesn't have to have production value, it doesn't need to be official video. Why aren't the club brave enough to now just go, 2019, why can't you just pick up a phone, make a video message and just stick it out? Because they haven't got a chief engage. But that's what I'm saying. Why does everything have to go around the house? We live on them, we live now in a generation of everything where it's just like, why am I waiting for the news tomorrow? I can find out today. I just think, you're right, but if we had that chief engagement officer who could front her up, it could be, it still wouldn't have satisfied some people, you've got access to, but at least the club have had it, they're off, at least they've looked and gone, look, however they do it, right. This isn't, this is a document that's being prepared as you do, it's still a work in progress as it will continue to be up until we submit plan and permission. Why exactly? Listen, we went into a thing last week for the stadium, right? Find out the results of the public consultation, right? So all the media there and, the echo and all that are there, and it's like, when's it gonna be the echo tomorrow morning because that's the next print? We had it out 10 minutes later. We had it out now 10 or 10 minutes later. I'm not saying that makes us better, but the echo obviously or any newspapers, they, that's their, that's their, that's their form, that's their form of meaning, that's how they make money, you do go on their website, but I know it's changed them, of course it's changed them, it's changed them so they can get stuff out instantly, but that's the way we live in now, people want stuff instantly, it shouldn't be for the next day, it should be instantly, the club should have someone who works there, who has got the remit to just go, we need this out and we need this out now, I'm gonna pick them, how hard would it be for somebody to work on everything for both clubs, to have an office in their house where they have a phone and a tripod and have a light, where they can just sit down and have an official board behind them and just go, I'm sure everyone's just, I'm sure everyone out there is just seeing this document, that document is not for public consumption, this is what it is, please don't think that this is the final, these are the final designs because they're not, bang, get on Twitter, get on Facebook, get on Instagram, it's out, it's everywhere, it's just told you everything you need to know instantly, this is something the club are missing massively, why do you need the echo, why do you need us, you do it, we have a conversation about that anyway, but almost like if it comes from us, it almost feels like it's, are these real, are these not real, we're just saying, this is what it is, this is what it looks like, it generates speculation, that runs away, and then the narrative changes, so people are saying, oh, that's that, and that's that, and it's like, how do you know that, how do you know that's the design, but how do you know that's not the design? We were given the other ones in the first place though, after we were told, we would have been. But when moving away, aren't we from what the actual thing is? No, I know, but I think it's important though, I think it's important to talk about these things though, Baz, I think it's important to ask, why are we here, discussing leaked images of pictures that may or may not be the stadium, when the club, Do you know what the point of what it is, to make videos and stuff like that? I know, we would have talked about it anyway, of course we would have, it doesn't matter whether it's over, no, no, but the point being is, if everything would have come out, and just gone, well we'd have had context to it, exactly, and then you can talk about the context, so it's not, it doesn't harm us, but what I'm saying is, as a football club, you could have, you have someone who just fronted up on Friday night, whose job it is, and just says, these are not the real images, or goes on Twitter and says, nothing has come out from the club, good, bad, whatever, it's all from other sources, and then it's whether people even source those sources, people might be sitting there all watching this and going, you know, not, because we're not credible to them, and that's fine, if we're not credible to someone, but the point being is, then it'd be a lot easier to do this video, if we knew, because officially, it's like when you go, we might be saying, I'll wait till I see him in an evidence sheet, and it's like, honestly, no, no, and that's fine, because people have been stung far too many times, and I just think that could easily solve this kind of issue. But that's the big major, the whole thing could be with the chief engagement officer. If you've got someone, whether it was Alan Myers or someone who understands more of it behind, you know, whatever, if you've got that person who fronts it all up, even if being, you know, yet he means being abducted by aliens, people who'd run in the other day, which was basically, that was what it was, you know, the conspiracy, no one's seen him. Someone's come, yet he means being, he's been into this training, and that's it, oh, well that's gone. But all right then, what next? Everton, you know, Everton are being kicked back, and it's a crap they're able to come out kicked back a bit. You know, we don't, we add a presentation from Fanatics, we know how big they, we don't know anything, but, you know, things like that, just someone who heads things off to keep the club moving in the right direction. A lot of people, the thing with Bramley more, what I read from a lot of different people is, no one's really happy with the capacity, right? And that's, someone like, you know what, I'm all right with it, that's fine, I'm okay with it. If it does what it says, if it does what it says, meaning, let me ask you a question right now. Right now. Come on. If Everton Football Club came on today and said we can give you 62,000 seats, right now, right? Or the alternatives, 52,000 seats with a possibility of 10 standing, which one would you take? 62,000 seats. Which I would take 52,000 with a possibility of standing. As, as, no possibility is, no, they're all nailed down, there's no way to go. Oh, okay. Um, know what you know, but you're gambling. What are you gambling though? I don't know. See, isn't that the same, isn't that the same question as Big Shiny, Evertonland and Bosch looking stadium, where you might have a slightly reduced stadium? But what I'm, what I'm trying to say is that people, I, I really do believe because there's too much stuff going on in the background that the once upon ratio will be gone soon. It'll be bigger. Okay. Right. And that means evidence capacity will be bigger. I've never ever thought. You're not willing to bet that on 52. Will you just give me 62? So that's the higher capacity. Yeah. But I want the higher capacity. But I want the, I want, I want that. Do you want the high capacity with standing? Yeah, of course I want standing because I think with standing comes atmosphere and, and that's the way football's going, hopefully football's going anyway. And I, yeah, yeah, but I just wanted to get to 62,000, it's that, that, I think that's a lot of people's biggest gripe is obviously the capacity size. Right. Go. Isn't it? Quite clearly. Oh, no, no. So, everything could come out meant we know that by next year the ratios one to two. Right. Yeah. One point. So, therefore our capacity, we can guarantee you our capacity is going to be 62,000 whenever and kickoff in 2022. Yeah. Like I was saying, is that everybody seems to want the easy option. Right. But the easy option was going to KB or the easy option was going to Lanks. Yeah, yeah. Just building a big ball that you can just throw 70,000. But the Lanks was the one. Because that's the real thing. What we're doing at Bramley Mordor is really, really difficult. We are, we are, and don't think for a minute that I am being like a, like, you know, a bespoke sort of something here. Just think of the practicalities of building on what it is now. It's a dock. It's still a dock. It's right next to a river. It's not, it's got a big wall that is not, you don't have to knock it down, really. The practicalities of where we're building are not easy. And we're saying we're going to build a state-of-the-art stadium that's not going to look like anywhere else in this little thing. It's not easy. And yet people are trying to say, why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you making it steep? What if they, what if every time they go make a design, someone goes, you can't do that because that thing there will block this thing here and you're hitting the wall or you're overhangs going over the river. You know what I mean? Like actual practicalities of the footprint that we've asked for because it's iconic. It's surely, it's a little bit give and it's a little bit, of course it is. The problem is we don't know what the give and take are because we're all in the dark, aren't we? That's the issue. Realistically, that's the key. Yeah. The key issue is we've been given no information. Yeah. No one's given context to anything. That's why we've done a presentation a year ago. That we were told almost a year ago. Where's that? That the images we were told were this and this is what I've come back to what I was saying before. We're all in the dark as fans. So we are all making it up as we go along. Of course we are. And what do we always say? We always say when there's loads of when it's silence, people fill in narrative and everything. They're getting better at some stuff. They still aren't laying and other stuff on that. That is what will undo everything ultimately as we go forward. We won't have confidence in what you're doing. It's not even if you think that you are going to build this stadium. But have confidence in it then because the more you know last week when we were at the fanatics presentation. For me, that was the first time I've had a real ever official talk with conviction about us having brandy more dock. It really was. When Sasha was going we're building this iconic shop and brandy more docked when we get to the stadium. But other times it's all been it's been it's problems and it's difficult to get in it. I'm not talking about people we might speak to who we're going now I'm talking about official people who speak some he's on the board he's a board member telling us when we're getting to the stadium and this deal with fanatics because they're going to build this brilliant big shop flagship store at our new stadium and brandy more come out and be bullish with the gold we're going there we know we're going there and these are like you said we're going to be juggling a little bit to get it through brandy. Have confidence Juggleday Stadium through plan and permission. We've had spares fans sending me stuff going look when we put in for it we said we were only having 50,000 54,000 the minute it got passed it went to 62 because we went oh we can alter that we're going to see once the plan and permission is in place it's in place everything should be I know they're not going to come out and go we've got a builder like this to get it through plan and they don't need to say that but they have to be a little bit braver of fill the narrative now tell people the direction we're going in tell people the timeline if there's real issues with scaling and I don't know whether there is but it's been come out and say we might have had to take the things a little bit since Dan Mises presentation we have to accept it he can still we could still end up with say 55,000 say we'll just brush it as John B would say but 55,000 stadium that looks absolutely incredible from the outside it's amazing inside it's it's difficult to make it look amazing inside it will look brilliant I've said it before Bas I've said it before I'd rather have 55,000 Evertonians with a boss atmosphere than 65 and you're losing something what did you think about the the wall laying it'll never happen no it would never happen it's one of those things that is probably putting so some people go when people look and go what's going to happen and stuff because that's really important to us we'll go oh yeah we'll build the wall on the ground at the last minute with someone I'll go safety people go you can't have that why well a player could hit it or fans could fall over it you can't have it and the club will go oh yeah we can't have it sorry everybody but you've already they look mad though you already tick that box for the for the whoever needs that need that to be how can I say this they've got to be nice to loads of people they've got to overpromise to some people but those are the people that make the decisions but they're not they're not us you've got to think of like world heritage you know that like that's a that's a major thing I've been this you know I'm going but I've been listening to this week world heritage you're apparently want to want to do more in the city and some people are like don't let them don't let them go anywhere else because it's all like saying because they want to go into Chinatown and places like that and people are like no don't let them go anywhere else because as soon as because there's places in Liverpool and people might think this is a good thing or a bad thing but there's places in Liverpool that haven't that the city needs to needs to regenerate whether you like that or not student housing the point being students bring millions of pounds that's been ripped apart by you know who having that would stop that so it's not always a good thing some people just want to get rid of the world heritage it's like it opens the world heritage travel catalog girls let's go there they've got world heritage it's like literally nobody I don't give a touch about it because it wouldn't stop me going somewhere I wouldn't open a thing you're like you're just sharing your I'm going because of world heritage I'm going I'd open it and go into a beer it could have been anywhere but you know no one's not if we lost world heritage UNESCO thing do you honestly believe people wouldn't come to Liverpool there's one less certificate in Joe's office he wouldn't give a touch they'd still be here but they had a hoops they've got a jump through they've got a jump through all these hoops and make sure that when they get these kind of documents everything looks okay boss might not always be the documents that I think the important thing out of this is we all have to take a step back probably and just go we can have this properly when the consultation comes out it's only going to be another couple of months now give or take three months and we're going to have the images that we're going to have the misstep evident made as a club was three months ago was it three months ago or four months ago when they brought and they didn't tell people why we were where we were because really we should have been ready to go then we were told we were told we were going to have planning permission at the end of last year and now you're telling us it's the end of this year and the fact that they never told us why let all the do merchants in now listen some of those do merchants I know and I surround people and they've got every writer to be like that because they've seen this stuff before and a lot of them have been right because they're ever thrown that's what I'm saying I'm not having a go at it the point being is we've been down this road before and if you don't tell people why you're making decisions they can't don't know they can't get behind the next decision if you haven't explained one decision why didn't you get behind the next decision so that's that's the top and bottom of it and that again it all comes back to all now it was not where it should have been tell everyone tell everyone throw them under the bus they probably wouldn't though because it's a professional integrity but what they could say is we've changed we've changed we've changed their track and we're now doing this we've been far along as we should have been and now we get a whole new board some of the people on the board don't agree with the old regime therefore things are going to change but they didn't you didn't say anything and therefore and like we just said the narrative gets filled by all the people then so number one go and get some on do the job and come out public and be a public spokesman for this stadium because don't leave it in the hands of third parties like us and like the Echo and Roger Phillips is falling for God's sake get somebody who can come on this couch get somebody who can go to the Echo get somebody who can go into the Radio City can go on Radio Media can go on Sky and confidently get across what is going on not just about the stadium but anything to do with evidence and I'll ask you about those will be will be won right there you will be shutting down the debate straight away on the ways and the whys and the whos and whatever so anyway let us know your thoughts anyway let us know your thoughts importantly on if you'd been offered the two which we were essentially would you would you be going towards you know croquis now would you give the context would Eddentland give the context to that you know 65,000 plus a croc stuth or 50 personally say 55,000 at the King's Dock at Brandy Moe Dock which one would you personally I'd be I'm right on board what we're doing now because I think in the end the hard way is the best way well I've seen it I've seen a Liverpool fan do the dice rain you know an old day getting the stadium on the waterfront and they're going to be part of town and you know it's iconic and all that and we're all's we're doing is getting Bon Jovi they're getting Bon Jovi back all's we're doing is bolting on to their original stadium how did this how did we allow this as a club to happen that was from a Liverpool fan so that you can see that can I just just one more thing I've looked in the comments and some people are still asking the question why do we need to move that's people's no I don't but the reason we have to move is because our stadium doesn't make any money and we'll get older and what are you going to do with it older stadium it'll get older and there's no and we can't bolt on don't forget we can bolt on Liverpool can we can't do nothing more with we'll go to some park apart from the parking like before we go Jo put the show already this is very early in the infancy now about 500 votes okay 500 votes in 91% barely more there you go 500 votes in probably more still but people have got to get away from the people out there who come on go to some park go to some park will continue to get older and older and older and there's nothing you can do with it and as the game more money comes into it how do you don't forget FFP which you talk about all the time it's making money yourself to balance the books we can't do that with go to some park we just can't it doesn't we can't when people say why don't you spend you can't you can't spend it on place because you need to generate that money in the first place to spend to be able to pay their wages but if you've got a if you've got a higher turnover then you can bring those people in that's how FFP works and it's not going away in the way it is at the moment it's staying very much the way it is so we've got to move and we can't and we'd love to be able to build on good and I feel good and I feel good because we want to be self-sustainable all might be can't be lying far out of the sherry or all the shittles money or anyone we want to be self-sustainable and we can only do that with the biggest savings that's it there you go thanks for watching let us know your thoughts in the comments make sure you to get on the poll on Twitter see you later