 What's up? What's up? What's up? I'm Brian man Sean. I'm Corrie We are back with another episode of no labels necessary podcasts You can catch us every Tuesday every Thursday on YouTube spotify Apple music wherever you stream your podcast Here at the intersection of creativity and currency before the artists and entrepreneurs mix that together you got us today We're talking about being so good. They cannot ignore you. Okay That is a real strategy. Yeah, it's a real strategy We've heard it over and over again, and we're gonna pop off the conversation with joiner Lucas We got to give them this flowers because I wake up this morning. I Got some DMs from a lot of people just like I typically have it in morning one of them is for my sister She's in like three videos And one of those videos was joiner Lucas. I'm like My sister has no idea who John Lucas is. I know for a fact Like so why is she sending me this? This is not her bag at all Secondly Because of the post formatting I recognize the style. Wait, is this the show? And this is for a joiner Lucas video with the hell this doesn't make any sense Like this is not this is not joiners, you know typical space of spotlight, right? Yeah, send us coffee shop This ain't his coffee shop, right? I click on the video and It's the video broski So the headline is whew Things get intense in the music video for joiner Lucas's song broski featuring Rotini if y'all haven't watched that video Definitely check that video out. It's definitely worth watching. We can link that in description below Make sure y'all click it in the art of linking description. Don't just go look it up Let's be responsible for that watch time shout out to YouTube and I watched the video. I Didn't realize until I finished that it was five minutes I was reading through the comments and people were like, this is the only time I've watched the video on the shade room That's been this long a full video let alone is being like five minutes And I literally went back and went to the scroll thing for the time step. I said, oh shit It's like five minutes and something seconds This video the concept is amazing as we know Jordan Lucas with videos like I'm not racist How you can make conversation pieces and how he shoots it? Yeah, even more importantly can really spark conversation right by Riley and This is why Jordan Lucas is so perfect for this episode because one Again, he's not necessarily this particular audience the shade room audience They would quote-unquote ignore him because it's just not his bag that typical side of culture Yet over a long enough time span You're gonna start hitting people in different places and you're good enough. You're gonna hit somebody's radar I might not know about you today, but now my sister at least knows that guy with the broski song You know, I never know Exactly She eludes lease knows about that. All right now Jordan Lucas had songs like what's the name of the song? I wrote it down somewhere because I always have trouble saying it Ross Capriccioni I might have said the wrong the name wrong, but that's the name of the video It was based on a real story a wild story. He did this eight years ago. Buster Rimes was like yo This is one of the best songs I've heard in years. He paired it to a nice song. It's pretty crazy, right? That was like eight years ago though. All right, that was a song went viral in his own right and touched people years later he had the future It was he wrapped on percosep Molly Perkis said he did a freestyle that that went viral start touching the people who love The rap rap space. Yeah, right and then he had the will Smith song flip And that went viral will Smith posted about it and revealed it Revealed it to a whole audience because it's not only did Jordan do like a song He did a video concept and he's really go with the video concepts So that touched the whole level audience as well from will Smith met what milk with that will Smith from it and I'm not racist Social conversation that touched an entirely different audience and then what happens over time You just being so good that people can't ignore you. I might have loved this song about Ross Capriccioni But maybe I didn't that's not my bag or it's not even on my radar, but oh This I'm not racist thing Okay, I like this and I heard the purpose that all this is the same guy now I got two things I associate with him know it. Let me go down the rabbit hole Maybe one song is worth me going down the rabbit hole on this guy, right? And then we get this song Touching a whole another side of audience and it's going to send people down the rabbit hole And I went down to join the rabbit hole this morning Because I wanted to do a video about it. I already knew it. I'm like I want to like now just look at his collective work at once the experience Over time Once you have a catalog of well put together content It's completely different and I've known Jordan over time But looking at it as a whole catalog you appreciate an artist completely different. Yeah, and I know that sometimes why we look at artists In their full greatness after they pass because now you do have a full body of work Exactly, I guess you go back and look at it all in full contact. Exactly. I'm not just this this Or I'm not judging him by just this song or this song or this song And that's something honestly as we continue this conversation. Why being so good They can't ignore you One is a great long term strategy in general because there's always gonna be somebody ignoring you But two you have to realize that's part of what comes with this game in life in general But particular to artists right is as long as you're living and breathing the body of work is still being built Yeah, it's still being created. So you're not gonna get the fullest love because there's something Special about looking at a catalog in full and saying oh, he was this and he was that he was that Right all in one thing. This is the same person that did all of these things That's a completely different experience where in real time we tend to judge and pigeonhole people Right, so we don't even receive everything else, but when you look at it, holy, it's a different experience So be so good. They can't ignore you and this is Where I give Jordyn's most flowers Virality and then that being good when we talk about virality the key word is remarkable Always have to remind people the key the root word of remarkable is remark I need to be able to remark about you I need to be able to talk about you and he has a lot of content that makes people talk about the content right and When that happens, you're going to go viral. That's all viral is Word of mouth he creates remarkable content over and over again It might touch different audiences because of the variety of it, but it's worth talking about so how can you create something? That's worth talking about is the key question. I feel like artists should be focused on that one way that he does it so well, I Always talk about this shortage of artists and You know the consulting class and things like that. I'm like, yo, bro. Why do y'all let y'all creativity end at the song? Yeah You do say that's a lot. I say a lot I say this shit a lot and he's a perfect example. It doesn't end at the song The music video Right the music video. I was still creative with it Yeah, right and And the time that we say music videos are dead And it's time that we just talked about short attention span, right and not alone not only short attention span, especially On Instagram tick tock those particular platforms people watched a five minute video who never even heard of this man Right, yeah, you're right So it's possible But what level of creativity are you putting into it now every single song isn't necessarily Gonna marry that every joiner song doesn't have a crazy concept by the way My people might try to stick him into that bubble But again, that's looking at him holistically going back to his catalog It sounds a future and little baby ain't that special it feels like a future little baby video, you know I'm saying so to speak Well done high quality still got his touch, but it's different so again, like you guys are creative man and I Just employ you do not let that creativity stop on in the audio that that thing hit the visuals Maybe you need a good, you know, maybe you can't fully see it You need somebody who can help express what you're trying to create, but if you are inspired by your audio To create pictures That other people would like how can you expect other people to be inspired by your music yourself? Because all we're doing when we're listening to your shits creating pictures in our own head So if I can't create a picture you can't create a picture what we talking about. So we got an issue. Yeah issue. Yeah, I think That's what's cool about artists like him is that Even when the narrative hits what I've seen what artists are that even when the narrative goes outside of their core audience Music fans in general just respect creativity. Well, I can look at a artist and be like hey Here's her music isn't for me, but that video is hard as fuck, right? Well, like that that set is crazy. You're like, you know, their performance was wild Whatever because if you are a true fan of the art you can separate the art from your emotions about the are you Are we so much emotions about the art from your emotions about art? I could thank you suck as a person But that's it was hard. I can't you know, how many hours do we know we're like man? That's a terrible human being All of the R&B artists from the 70s All of them, you know saying but That's an advantage for artists right to your point. It's like hey If I'm always working on getting better and trying to be great eventually I can my art will be so great It'll break through that to where no people still gonna hate but I live here like you want people to hate you because you suck or Would you rather people hate you because you're really good at what you do? You don't get hate what the people hate you because you trust you hate because you're great I'd much rather be hate being great, you know saying so it's so much So it's a easier path to walk in my opinion at least doors open for you on that road You know so but that's something I don't think I always think about like you know You hear the point from artists like something calls even comments thing like that You know this group of people won't recognize me I've been trying to hard to get in contact with this group of people and they won't they won't recognize me I've been trying hard to break into this nation. They won't recognize me and as I have you ever stop and think But you haven't made something worth being recognized yet It's a hard pill to swallow It's pill you gotta swallow sometimes I'm left right and then you can go back to working. They're like, okay What about Me or my thing is making it to where people don't find it remarkable like why aren't people talking about the thing? Oh, it's because I've been I don't know shooting all my videos on my iPhone 11 When I should have invested in some camera equipment two years ago or yo, I keep making the same sound I've been making since 2016 when I probably could stand against new producers and try some things I like because the path of greatness is really just is just paved with Experimentation and trying shit, but then there's that point. Well, you got to try shit It's above where you are. It's like going to the gym, right? Like you got training Yeah, you're trying to make you try to listen shit. You didn't think you could live just like you'd like to try it, bro Yeah, just do it, right? I'm only been to like 195. Well, you got 215 What's going on but in that attempt to do it your muscles learn you start saying, okay I got off the bar. That wasn't crazy, but you see what you see what I feel like exactly And then you know, okay, so it's not impossible for me to make this shit happen It's gonna take some work to get the point I need to hit the gym for another eight weeks naturally get this. I look at creativity the same way probably a lot of artists will Hit a point where they're comfortable and it might be good enough, right? Like we see with big artists like hey, this is good Just good enough for me to pass by I keep my strings even keep the label off my back I'm not really trying you know, I'm not really trying to exhale And then what happens is there's a point where there are new people who come out and show what amazing Your audience is consuming that they come back when it's you crazy like damn like I don't know Little who the fuck whatever Just drop some crazy visuals to the crazy show like he's doing all this crazy shit And you've been doing the same thing you've been doing for the last two three four five years I've been following you right because you think it's amazing But we as a people have not told you that's amazing. Yeah That's what a lot of artists can do as well when they find success They find a formula they're scared to do something different it labels the scare won't let them put out something different However it occurs All right, but now you're in this bag and it's no longer worth talking about because part of why you talk about it because it was it was interesting and All right, you know no longer ahead of the curve. We didn't pass you up. Yeah, you can't repeat Yeah, you know, so yeah becoming a like you can become your own formula by the way Like people think about oh, I don't want to do the tic-tac formula I don't want to do the whatever formula, but you can start falling into your own formula trap as well You're doing the same thing over and over again. We can drink hell about that all the time Blow my mind about artists, bro, they can see it with another artist, but they can't see it with themselves Oh Drake been dropping songs about being heartbroken for decades. Then we need to switch up stuff where you just dropped your 6th trap song This month talking about the same shit you've been talking about since I learned about you Eight years ago. Yeah, I'm saying and it's like where's the growth? What's the development? Where's the where's the the the new? Evolution that came as a result of your trial and error like where is that? You know Sam because I don't think artists think about it, but you know, it's been about like once the person I said the points where they are like a fan We here for the ride and ideally the elevator goes to the top I'm saying like I want to see my favorite artist succeed at a high level Yeah, and then of years online. I learned like hey, you try you at least attempt it But you fail here and you will cool here Okay, I'm cool with that because that's much different than like you never even tried to get to that point You know, it's like you just you got in and like oh no, I'm not doing that shit And you gave up it's like Bob at least like shoot high and fall and fall in the middle That's all I asked because I've seen good example, but I always think about on my one homie That's already something about a name Tom Bell, man And I was a member when it's like years ago when we had a conversation. He's like, bro I want to like transition I rap like I want to be a punk rock artist. I was like, okay I'm saying he's making like many rap music You know, it's not gonna go there might not go there with the car audience You know saying and he's not like I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it like I'm gonna figure it out and like he's like hard transition like stop I think still hasn't really really seen like rap rap music in like years I remember hearing that transition like Yeah, like next song come out we go from this song He got called a little Tommy he quiet for like six seven months in the next song got screaming over some guitars Fuck but she got to be good to them. Yeah, he was like good I don't know. Maybe you got some unreleased shit But he didn't need to develop heavily in that place in that into that space like he didn't really have any misses or any Yeah, like, you know Like anybody. Oh, yeah, I should charge bro. You shouldn't try this direction It was instantly clear that he had air for that direction and Like oh, it's only gonna get better from here in a good way But of course, yeah, but being creative and being having being willing to take that risk is That's when the artist that we love the most end up doing yeah, I take it now our turn So I agree with that because the time is something great. You know, even his situation I remember thinking about it was like, you know Like he might put out some rap snippets in there and like Sam, but oh shit about start rapping again And at least what I kind of saw like outside looking in was like what I just said like you're comfortable here You know what I'm saying? You're comfortable here. You're good at it, but It's a space where it's saturated and you it is gonna be really hard for you to stand up Versus you can take a lot of these concepts that people like and rap Bring it over to the punk rock world. Well, you know, we've talked lots of times about as much shit as rap gets There's a lot of things that innovate in terms of creativity. You know, like a lot of all things, you know It's like you can take those same concepts to this space where like over here You just know motherfucker, but over here you great You know and then and then you win and then you win times 20 over here because of it, right? But that's a process of trial and error process of experimentation and I've seen many examples of that He's just the one that like I have the most inside about because I was able to have conversations with him I couldn't have with no other arts. I see that happening with and it just makes me think of it Like how often do we see that like I like ours to get stuck in the box and you know They might have been great four years ago and then they just okay And you can feel that they don't really have a desire to push through and because of that It's there in the same box They say in the same community same groups people keep talking about them same groups people hate on the same groups People love them and it never really progressed beyond that and then in their head. It's just like yellow music is crazy I'm saying why isn't this shit moving and then we as fans like nigga You ain't trying nothing new or creative in years, bro. Like, you know, I'm I'm giving you the same energy you give me You make you making passive creativity. I'm gonna be a passive fan I like that right there. I like that right there Before we get to the other example actually, you know Coral Ray Another example of this. Yes. All right. Coral Ray got all kind of shit coming out Oh, her name was far greater than her actual fan base. Maybe she was industry playing all those type of typical terms But she was in a space where she did pop a lot of people knew her face and her music Had to catch up or her fan base had to catch up Shows People not dry and they drop But but in two ways, right? One, you don't have fans two on the other side Your performance wasn't all that great either. Yeah, all right. So It's a lot that needs to develop and we're in an era where you have to develop in real time but shit we were talking about a couple weeks ago and We were just randomly talking about coral ray. I don't know which one of us had looked but it was like, oh, shit I didn't realize Coral Ray had like 30 something millions five to five Mostly listeners It's like she stayed consistent I remember clips where she would be like, yeah people telling me tick tock artists or like things like that or saying I'm not popping but like I had to realize No, that's cool. I am winning and I'm gonna just keep winning my way Let's not get tricked off the block because that's what happens to a lot of people They get tricked off the block because everybody's making fun of you even if they want to be in that position themselves And now you self-destruct because you're worried about what these people are saying Next thing, you know, that space opens up. You can't find your way back somebody else find that pocket And you like what the fuck you you got gyrold, right? It's like, you know, this is a good saying and you want to hit people lovely. He just made fun of me for that Like that's what could have happened to her. She stayed consistent and now she got 30 something monthly uh million monthly listeners you you shared that smithy. What did she do? She just um Oh, yeah, she just I spice she passed. I spice and monthly listeners. So I get added So she's a third female rapper with the most monthly that only makes sense I'm guessing the third biggest female rapper on the spotify And then her album is like one of I think the third most stringy rap album of the year You know what I'm saying? So we talked we talked about in a three year. No, she probably 20 she probably right after spending right 2021 Wasn't right. So you talk about in a two year span you go from draw shows being called one hit wonder being called. It's a tiktok star to Top three in the game from a female rapper standpoint Which probably puts her in like the top 10 in the game right now from just a rapper at least you know Saying rapper standpoint overall and that's amazing progress, you know, like Be so good. They can't ignore you You might feel how ever you feel about she's not your vibe or Is she a real artist or does she have rights? I don't know. Like in all those kinds of conversations they they throw at people, right? Whatever you say, she's improved her package. Yeah, right some people's package Look like I'm the gravity rap artist or I'm the artist that writes every single song And some people's package looks like I'm more of a performer Some people have different things brands personality whatever, but then you have to figure out how do I level up each one Over time you cannot deny That over time she's continued to deliver more songs that have happened to take off one way or another And her package as a whole I just saw her bt awards performance That she was good Like for real. Yeah, it was legitimately good. I was surprised And it was and she had the outfit that was going viral because it had like all the female rappers name on the outfit and everything And she like a whole dance number and stuff pulling like inspiration from tlc And it hit and we're we this is only what two three years removed from her Basically being bottle or the barrel in terms of social media feedback. Yeah, exactly. It's the crazy turnaround We don't usually see that we don't we don't but as long as you keep hitting them Especially when they know you look somebody gonna listen even if they listen into hate, but I can't tell you how many people I know that Do not like an artist generally speaking But they say I but that one song or those two songs. I already listen to them, but I can rock with those songs That's all you need. Yeah, man, you know, I used to be on the coil of red hate train Like I was I had tickets. Tell me more. I had tickets at one point. Okay. I was there. I heard the conversations You heard them and then you got involved Yeah, I might I was gonna say I might even start a conversation or two about it You know what I mean? I could I could admit that I was a different person from the burner count or call your savior No, I speak from my page always, you know what I mean? I always always be me, man You never know what they're coming. They're gonna go. I need all that traffic All that traffic can be monetized But it was I was a different person back in 2021 You know what I'm saying? My mind wasn't as as well adjusted and expanded as it is now And I remember the thing that won me over where her was like a collab that she did with DG Like I said a lot of times by a DG fan. She did the song together. It's that she kind of far And so this ain't this ain't no more parties. It's kind of hard and then She went on this string of elves It's like five six months straights of elves and like then I'm gonna start laying it back like, okay I was right And then she won like a year and a half string of buildings You know what I'm saying? I should turn she went quiet for a minute came back turned up I had fans of her around me who would start showing me things about her that like I wasn't seeing because I was I was hating You know what I'm saying? And then at some point my opinions looked and like I said to say You know, I a lot of times when podcast try to speak from the perspective of a music fan It's weird. I'm able I'll just take this one good moment And their whole mind would change it and I hope mine was a change about you, right? I could it could be bad bad bad bad bad then it should kind of hard and now I think you get it from there now I'm saying because we don't know we want his music fans. We just know we want we just know we'll like it when we see it We know when we see it, you know what I'm saying? We like something that we see we'll see it when we see it You know what I'm saying? So I think she's a great example of that because I said you don't typically see that from artists Especially new artists where lights are going like a string of elves and then come back and be one of the top three to top 10 artists like out and then you know, she's approaching The uh, you know, I think like once the artist hits like five years of being mentioned Are they good? You know what I'm saying? Everyone should say she's she don't like year three or four that you know what I'm saying? Um, so she almost there. So like yeah, but her shit is correct Her shit is correct There was a couple things in this video that I want to make sure people don't mean it's not this video actually Blackie speaks did a video about this shout out to you blacky three days ago He did a video coiler rate proves me wrong. This is another example, right? Being so good. They can't ignore you doing it over a long enough time horizon Continuing over and over and over again. Joy Lucas is on the shade room eight years into making not like that's the pinnacle of success It's just an example. He's in a space that he entered Right on a high level that he didn't necessarily exist in previously It took him eight years to get there everybody's gonna start somewhere But if you have a career over um over a long enough time, right? Hopefully there's new spaces that you enter right and cover more ground. You started your niche and you can cover more ground So blacky was one of those coiler rate. Um, you know, I guess haters will be a good word He did videos on her in the past. He these are real life case studies between blacky And cobra is a real life case study. How do you turn a fan? I'm in a hater into a fan or at least somebody say, you know, what that's your fault Yeah, you got what you know you doing what you do you do it? Well, it ain't for me. But at least I can say that at the very least, right? so But in this video that blacky did at one minute and 56 seconds Coilery had these performances that didn't go well In that time Nicki Minaj tweeted because I think she said I don't know if she might want to quit or something Nicki Minaj said don't do that chin up always remember this when black people specifically in her image She that crowd wasn't all black. But when black people not fucking with you, they will boo Those people were on their feet That means they may not have known the song, but they were interested in getting to know more So they were observing you charging to the game and move on now what I do love about that comment is They were not doing and that is a reality if I do not know you I might just be listening and I know that could be perceived As oh, they weren't rocking with you. Yeah, but you know, I don't know the song How can I rock with you because usually people are gonna do that for things they already know and feel There's certain types of songs doing things that you can like get the crowd reaction But that's a whole level of performance and certain types of song structures that do that, right? So One I want artists to kind of like take that advice and that thought process and perspective of if they're not Like rocking in your crowd and you're new and you know, they don't know you Sometimes don't look at it as a I might be booed unless you can use that as motivation Some people get motivated by that But if it's really down you look at it as yo, they might have just been observing And trying to learn the song in real time and you know fans can't walk and chew gum at the same time You know what I mean? I can't learn the song and turn up to the song. It's gonna be a delay other thing Polo G also tweeted in response That's hot. That's always how it be when you first come up compared to when you really blow You got to block that shit out and keep going crazy. You got it Similar sentiment, right? It's like so he's probably related to long His own experience because he said that's always how it is. He's like, hey, I'm just coming up You know, they don't quite know you yet. It's a whole different thing that'll change when you really blow So I guess there's a different differentiation. There's blowing and really blowing, you know, I mean and And that's Another thing as well and I would probably say that I lose to oh, yeah, you got a viral song or you had a moment But do you have real fans yet? Right? Do you really have this omni presence or something like that? Got attention The attention right attention, but no fans. Those are two different things two different things. So Again between coy situation during Lucas's situation I think they're great examples of being so good. They can't ignore you over a long enough time span, right? It doesn't mean it's gonna happen over a year Two years three years. I remember Jay-Z talked about something artists that was big and maybe like the 60s or 70s And he had just got on to him and talked about how amazing his music is and wish he had been bigger That probably gave that artist a up to it. The guy's not even alive anymore all day All right, sometimes it takes unfortunately if you're doing it for the art though You should still work on building the catalog building the building Sometimes it takes, you know, everything to be said and done for people to fully appreciate it and I know that You know, but That's a part of the game that you are in and part of the list you're taking Now the one thing I want to particularly say before we get out of here is Now quality over quantity quantity over quality The chicken ultimate conversation Yes, both is great, right? One thing I want to stress though is so many of you get caught up in quantity That you become lazy I'm just checking the box. I'm just showing up for work But I'm not making sure that when I put the burger together it's done Well, and you know the sauce ain't only on half of the sandwich and the lettuce ain't spread all out, right? Yeah Still be creative Right You're checking the box, but you're not being creative. You're not putting that energy out there You're not doing it. I'm not saying Jordan Lucas first say but like you if you don't spend that time To that extra time trying to figure out the idea You're wasting your time a lot of times Right, like oh, I'm doing three videos a day. I'm checking off the box because I don't know why my shit hasn't grown I've seen it grow for other people. I've done three videos a day for a year Well, shit, I look at your videos and this has been real instances Maybe you should have done one video a year and spend more time thinking about what you did in the video For real or maybe you should be doing three videos a week So manage that part as well Like don't just do an arbitrary number and think I can check a box and something's just gonna happen You also have to think about what's in the video and make sure you are improving because that's What quantity is supposed to do right? It's supposed to get you to quality faster get you to more reps But it's not just throwing some shit out there if you look at a A basketball player you look at Steph Curry He ended Jim shooting shooting shooting But he'll shoot from a specific spot over and over again And he will work on his form of his elbow specifically for a period of time He'll work on his footwork like how he jumps up into the air Right and then he'll do the same thing from a different place. It's not just Oh, yeah, I'm just gonna shoot from wherever every single time never thinking about my form of my technique I have to improve the little specific parts And over time after I improve this part of my shot and this part of my shot This part of my shot my overall shot got better. So you need to break down your content At the same time to figure out. All right, how do I improve something if you're just posting just a post and you're never Like actually analyzing doing a playback of yourself and say, uh, yeah, you know what? Shit that really wouldn't have kept my attention if it wasn't me You know what I'm saying? Like, how do I make this better? That didn't make me feel nothing except for a little bit nervous or something Then you're not doing it right quantity It's supposed to get you to quality faster. And then if you can do both at the same time That's great. That's the that's the holy grail But never forget about quality period. Yeah, I agree Now Before we get out of here I want to say We got the joining Lucas. We have the color rate as great examples of be so good They can't ignore you and of course, look, this isn't a scientist. He's the greatest artist in the world These are our favorite personal artists But again game should be able to recognize game Right and you're not going to win over every single person. So please don't get caught up and lose them entirely And when I said, I mean, oh, what's used do you still think this person is good? Do you still think this person Recognize objectively what they're achieving the particular progress They had what they went through and then take the lesson for the lesson because artists spend too much time Only being able to learn from nothing like that. Not even just artists people spend too much time Only being able to learn from somebody they can relate to Or they admire if those are the only people that you can learn from then Your progression will be slower. That's all I said That's a lot of my motherfuckers you're gonna hate Those are some of the best ones to learn from Everybody's great gyms, right you get that from sports man. It's like that. I think just fuck me up That's my enemy. He just All right, I can't come to say next time, you know what I'm saying? So like learn please be able to learn from our artists pay attention more to the message than the messenger Other than that, this is the end of the episode. No labels necessary. I'm brand man. Sean. I'm Cory and we out