 Thanks for staying with us now according to a publication by Antonia Adenaya-Hodd. The fashion industry in Nigeria plays an important cultural role and contributes significantly to the nation's economy. The country was once home to Africa's biggest textile industry, and Nigerian dynamic brands have brought new life into the industry. Now a generation of talents are exploring and adopting low-impact production methods and handcrafted with strong aesthetics and African wax print. Now historically, wealthy Nigerians have shopped abroad for international brands that are not available on the local market. Now this is changing as more global and luxury brands are entering the Nigerian market often via franchise agreement and strong online presence. The effect of the of course the COVID pandemic on global supply chain have further reduced the ease of traveling or international shopping, hence accentuating the need for these customers segment to buy locally. So our focus today is on the fashion industry and we're asking how can we build an ecosystem that promotes local content. Now please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 08-1-803-4663 you can also tweet at us at waishioafqa1 with the hashtag waishio. Now we have Elsie Godwin joining us. Hello Elsie. Hi. The only girl that can come on this set without makeup. There's lipstick. There's lipstick. But how are you? There's lash. So quickly, do you want to say something about the ASU, the university ranking? Manny did it for me. Oh, she did it justice for you? Yeah, she did it justice for me. Okay. Because you start by saying... Thank you. Good news. Thank you. Good news. I don't know what I'm talking about. Excuse me. 400. It's nice that Unilack is sort of above Covenant. It was... I don't know if it's nice, but it was interesting for me to see. Yes, it was just interesting. But I still by saying that I love the communism that comes with Covenant and how they support each other. That community that they have created around the graduates and the support that they give each other. I love that too. Okay, so the whole alumni thing. But I think from what you read it's based on research, right? Yes. If you give it to Unilack and University of Ibadu, I mean, if UI was not there, then I would be worried, right? Absolutely. Right? But we have a long way to go. We have a very long way to go. We far, we know, but we are coming somewhere. Okay. So let's talk ecosystem and building and promoting our local content. I mean, we had had a guest that we talked about tourism, as I mentioned earlier. And of course, we then piggyed it back to where this production is happening from the Ibadu. Because she deals in Adiré and all of those transactions, right? So I'm just wondering, right? Is it possible for us to have a lot more robust ecosystem in our fashion industry? So I see a lot of things going on, but it is not holistic in my opinion, the approach. You know why? Nigeria has a huge market for fashion, a very huge market. I just wish we understood the power that we had because we have the numbers. We have the consumers. We have over 200 million people. Imagine if we understood... I mean, they have them. They love fashion as well. Thank you. Imagine if we understood the power that we had and we then really promote, right, and support local content. We wouldn't be unmatched, as far as I am concerned, but I don't know if it is even possible. Let me hear your quick thoughts and I'll bring in our guest. I mean, everything is possible. Nothing is impossible, right? It just takes the right will. And the right people and leadership to get things done. We are the people as well. When it comes to fashion, I'm not exactly going to blame us because beyond the talent, beyond making things work, it takes us back to the conversation, which is the ecosystem. How does it affect the business, right? Recently, you hooked me up to the lady who does your work, right? And I'm glad she does mine. But for me, I'm still testing it out based on what she has done. I like the design, but there are some that have used other fashion designers to make and you realize that maybe in the next three months, there is a way, like the, I don't know what's called a nice opening, the zip, something is just wrong compared to me buying a ready to wear foreign brand, right? So that is the part that I think that I want them to work on. However, when you then look at the cost as well, it's also a problem because the factor in power, the factor in a lot of things, and you can't ask people not to make profits when they are working, right? So there's a lot of things that makes us want to run back to buying those foreign ready to wear. Even when you say the dollar is high, you realize that the cost of buying those foreign things are still cheaper because of what these people have to deal with at home to produce the amazing thing. I mean, like for me, I love Ankara, I love Adiwe, I love looking that way. You know, there was a time you said, some people say I'm just like a married woman. I'm like, I don't care. I like comfort in my fashion, right? So if there's no comfort in it, then I'm not happy. I'm so married with many wondrous. I'll be your bride only. I know, I stand all. That's a good question. But let me hear your thoughts, Maya. So what are you wearing? Is it a local brand? Yes, it is Nigerian. OK, so for me, I love fashion and I think that we are doing a lot better than we were doing in the past. But I think that we still have a very long way to go. Absolutely. For instance, like Elsie just said, enabling environment, too many things are out of place. Too many things are out of place that eventually affect the product, affect the people. We also need skilled hands. What we see nowadays is people just go and do three months' courses and they start sewing. It's true. So at the end of the day, what do you get? You have clothes that are made and are properly made. You wear them once and they open up. You have the shoes. You have different things. They are not up to par, like you said. The quality. The quality. You go to the cheapest places abroad, like, for instance, in the UK, Primark, you go to the cheapest places abroad, even Primark, thank you. So I think that we need more stakeholders in this industry, because what they need is investment. So maybe if they had the money, they would be able to train more people to do better. So buy the equipment they use, because sometimes, I know that especially with fashion, you have different machines for different things. The machine that weaves is different from the machine that stitches is different from the one that does, you know, threading or whatever. The finishing. The finishing. So if you have one, you can only, your outfit, whatever you are making, would just be half. Absolutely. Do you understand? Good. So I think we just need more stakeholders. Absolutely. More investment. I remember that a friend of mine had gone to the New York Fashion Academy, and she said that, you know, in that academy, they teach you what fashion is like. Abroad, there is a specialized person for just button installation. Thank you. There's somebody that installs zips. So because the government has provided, so she was even thinking that by the time she came back home to Nigeria, she actually proposed it to a state governor. See, tomorrow. Now voice mail in. Because guess what? What we need to do is create a massive industry. But they will. No, that is it. They will. Because we have the market. We have the market. But let me bring in our guests. Right? With a passion for fashion, arts and culture, Amobola Sanda has carved a niche for herself in making the Yoruba traditional outfit a showcase and essential in adorning brides and groom from their engagement ceremony. The journey which she began in 2005 has grown into a profitable venture, positioning her as one of the top Ashokie vendors in Lagos state. Her works at Mobax has moved from traditional to contemporary, impacting as many as are willing and interested in the arts. So Amobola laudably designs the participation in arts and designs and participates in arts and culture has gone unnoticed, has not gone unnoticed as she has received several prestigious awards and she is joining us live in studio. I hope I did not murder a lot of names. I apologize. So Alashokie. That's who makes Ashokie, right? Okay. I got it right. Okay. Yeah. Because you have to interpret it before you say it. But hey, you heard our conversation. I saw you. You kept on nodding and nodding and nodding. I can imagine what you're going through, but before we even start, like delve into the conversation, you have a very beautiful history as to what even made you go into the fashion business, especially the Ashokie business, the history with your, I think your grandma or something. You want to share or your mother-in-law, yeah, do you want to share that with us? Yes. Let me say good evening to everybody. Good evening. Ashokie for me is life. That's the way I see it. And I'll say I stumbled into it. It was, the old story started from getting married and then you know the way it is. You are home. You once take care of the children. And then at the same time, I was very young. So I was working. And then I think I had just a child then. And she needed my attention. We had issues. Of course, I mean the man will work, the woman too will work. I'll go out in the morning, come back late. There's nobody to take care of the baby at home. We had a maid. But you know the story with, you know, having help, taking care of your children and all of that. We had a very funny scenario with my maid then and my husband said, well, I can't stop working. You will have to stay back and take care of the child. It was a very, very bad one for me because I wanted to work. I wanted to do something. So I remember sitting at home. I will cry before he gets back from work because he goes in the morning and he calls back in the evening. And all I have to do is just sit down and, you know, be teaching ABC and 123. My mother-in-law came in and I was like, are you not bored? You're here alone. Why don't you just come? Come and learn this thing. Come and see what you can do. You know, like, you know the way our parents are. You know, they tell you to come and do something. You go, why does she want me to come and learn? No, that's not what I studied. This is not what I did. But then she was like, look, this thing is not bad. And, you know, at that time, we do have a lot of people learning craft. And in fact, I think there was some kind of stigma placed on you. They know, OK, fine. This bastard is going to go and learn this. So maybe she didn't finish his school or she came out with a talk. Oh, yeah, very bad grade. What is she saying? She's the only one that has a child. And then I took it up. I told my husband, I was like, OK, fine. If you can go and do it. So I went on to mommy. We'll sit together. She put me through. If you have to do this one, this is what you have to do. Today, you're not working in-house. We're going out, going to the fields to see the way the thing was. Initially, it was very strenuous. But then I had to just put all my mind in it. One, I wasn't dealing with a mediocre. She doesn't take no for an answer. You can't feel near her. So you just have to put your mind in whatever thing you're doing. And I remember then learning. You know, I had to like bring myself to the lowest. When I say the lowest, I come into the store in the morning because then I had to move in with her. So I was living with her. And then I am the first person to get to the store in the morning. So this one is not, this is mama's daughter-in-law. So you're waiting for somebody to come and clean up. I get in in the morning. I clean up, get everything tidied, and waiting for the staffs to come in. So the ladies I used to work with, they were thrilled. Like, this one would just come, sweep, do everything. Can you imagine that? And so mommy would come in and say, okay, today I'm not staying in the shop. I'm going for social and social engagement and all. You'll be able to attend to people. And it started that way. She saw that when people come in, they'll request that I let your daughter attend to us. And then mommy would go like, okay, fine. I'll leave before you let you do. So she sits back, sees me talk to the customers and all. And then when they leave, she calls me next time. You don't do this with a customer. You can't do this with a weaver. This is what you have to do. You don't do this one. This one you did was blunder. Don't do this one again. And when you do well, equally, she tells you, ah. You did a good job. Oh, mommy, ha, this one that you've done. I just send the money, good, now we've seen it. So I was really, you know, she carried me along. And by the time we finished, I had to go back home. And I spoke to my husband, you know. I don't know how I'm going to start this thing. It says start with anything. You know, this is your calling. You have to do, you've been given everything, then make do with what you have. It was tough. When I said, because how do you go approach people and say, do you want to tell them? Because I learned from so-so and so-person. So I had to be going from, I had pictures. Pictures of jobs that I didn't do. They were all mommy's works. But she said, do you know something? You go, get the job. We'll start doing what we need to do then. It was now, you know, my turn. They've given everything to you. Take the hook, take the line. Take Sinkawaia, get into the water, start fishing. So I looked at it and said, okay, then what do I do now? I carried my album. I created and then started visiting my friends at the banks. I'll go there, tell them, this is what I do now. Please tell your people, if they want to get married, well, they should try me and everything. You know, I can go maybe four, five banks in a day. By the time I get back, I'll be so exhausted and be waiting for, you know, that's one call. And then it was just the inception of GSM. It was Blackberry. So, you know. You do the pink. You know what? I mean, this is, if we leave you, I think we'll ask, we'll ask. But let's quickly go on the very, very quick break. When we come back from the break, we now want to ask about the challenges and how we can build a great ecosystem for the fashion industry. Because you guys are doing amazing. Stay with us, we'll be right back. All right, thanks for staying with us now. If you just tuned in, we're discussing the fashion industry. We're asking, how can we build an ecosystem that promotes local content? And Omobola Sanda is here. And remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 08-1803-4663. You can also do that at Weishaw Apka 1 with the hashtag Weishaw. I mean, she shared an amazing story, but Manny had a question. Yes, I have a question, Omob. Before I go to my question, I want to say something. You know, she said something about going with her mother-in-law. That was many, many years ago. How old is your child? How old is that child now? She is 17. I don't think the new generation would do what she did. So that was just a very, very good, humbling experience. And something came out of it, you know? Just like I said, we had very cordial relationships. She was like mother to mother, she means a mother to me. That was a good one. But now, this is my question. A new movie came out recently, and in the movie, I saw the way they were doing the whole Ashuki thing, is the way they have done it forever. Like you just have different sticks on different levels, and then, you know, they start weaving. Don't we have any technology that can do that faster? Upscaling. Upscaling, because we still have it being done the way it was done like one million years ago. So for that one, there's been seminars, there's been workshops on the Chinese, bringing in some kind of technology to make it faster, but it's not like the hand-woven one. So it is not that Ashuki. Are you saying it is not positive? Yes, because we actually have Ashokis that the, you know, I won't call you Ashoke, yes. Because it is not, it is a little bit degrading if I can use that word, yes. Because you have Ashoke that you cannot fold, you can't, then you now see that the density is so light and we're, I mean, if we say Ashoke, Ashoke, the thing is, it's cultural, it's epic. It's not in Tushia, not dashing anything to it. It's been from 1900 and then if that's what you want, that's what we're going to have. We have other tribes, we have other regions that also have their own traditional attires and all and you can't take it away from them. Oh, South Africa, yes, you say that they have a lot of development, they have everything is going, not like the way it used to be before. They have their cultural outfit. We won't say because your civilization has come then that one is now going to change from what it used to be before. So this is what it used to be. Maybe they're using it in a different way, which we have also employed is something we are also doing because Ashoke now is not what we used to wear before. You see brides now in fitted dresses and... Oh yes, it's not a wrong move. Sometimes, sometimes when you see them come out. I think it was the last time they have existed at Ashoke. That's the last time. That's the last time. Once she pierced that stand, that's when it became very, it became very impossible. You know, I also, you had a question, right? Yeah, yeah, I have a question. It's interesting that Manny has mentioned the movie, right? And I was going to say that each time, I love watching cultural Europa movies, maybe because I grew up here, right? So I enjoy watching them. And each time I see anyone, there has to be an Alashoke. I mean, the difference in this one, everyone is reviewing about is that the story is centered on this person. But when you watch closely, there is always somebody doing it. Yeah, but because that way trade itself depicts the culture. Thank you. So I was going to say, this is part of our culture and you've clearly stated that, right? So how do we also then ensure that this culture remains and we are proud of it? Because I love it. And it's, yes, I know Ashoke is expensive, but when you wear it, the pride that comes with wearing it cannot, you know, and like you said, we have these newer ones now that are coming, maybe from China and all that. So how do we even maintain that culture was still upscaling in a way that everyone is proud of it? So what I feel is the new thing that has come into it is the addition of rayon and, you know, silk. Silk has been from time, but now it's been a little bit upgraded. So you now see, we have them in like segments. If you want that, the olden day look, you see people coming for cutting, which is what, you know, I'm well known for. Because really the culture, that traditional thing, that's the taste. It's like you're having a bangasop. And then you now see, because it's being served in, not in the Kalabash, you know, that bowl, because it's being served in a plate. And I want that flavor. I want that thing that, you know, that's the thing that we're talking about. It's the clay pot that makes the right taste. That is the touch that I want. I'm not saying, help me put it on a platter or try to make it look different, but no, please. We're local and that's what we are. Now, taking to the local now, let us now break it down. What are the things impeding us, promoting it as it is in this local, raw form? So we see the lot of people doing their deraille. If you go to other tribes, you'll see all the cultural attires, right? But we don't see a very healthy, what's it called? Ecosystem. Production is low. And that's why you see a China coming into your country and giving you a deraille. Do you understand? Because production, they cannot, and I think that was when Manny was going with that question, they cannot keep up with the demand that is needed. So we would need some form of equipment, right? To make it, you know, produce more, you know, to churn out a lot more quantity. Yeah, don't take one record at a time. Yeah, so how do we build that ecosystem? And I want us to build an ecosystem that is sustainable. Not that the weaver is being paid peanuts, because that is what we see. Yes. And that's why guess what? And guess what? That's why a lot of people are running away from the trade. They don't want to do it anymore. All of our cultural things that we hold there, because the people at the low bottom. People are doing the real job. Yes, the bottom of the round, they are doing the real job. They're not getting enough. They're not getting enough. So they are looking at it that this thing is not profitable. They're in queue. I'll rather do something else. Yes. And that's why we're losing that local content. So how do we start to build that ecosystem? What would you suggest that we start to think about? And how can the government or how can the people coming? So like from what you've said, there's a URA digital says, if anything is going to go better, everything starts from the home. So I would say first and foremost, if we are stable, number one, we need to appreciate what we have. If we appreciate it, then we can promote it. If we don't appreciate it, there's really nothing we can do to throw this outside. That's one. Two, we have it. But even as we don't really appreciate, people come from international bodies and all and spares, they come in, they see it, they love it. They make lovely pieces out of it. Now that one is even like a review from maybe the olden days. Now I'm talking about now. Now we have a lot of people interested in it. But the interest is broken. It's broken and said that some people are coming in not because of the passion that they have for the work or for the, they're coming in because of the money that they know they can make out of it. Yes, it is a very lucrative business, if you ask me. But then that lucrative, being lucrative needs a lot of improvement. Just to make it acceptable, like you have said, then what can we do? We have talked about appreciation. You said machines to make things faster and all of that. How then do we make that sustainable? Can we afford these machines? Can we keep them? How do we run these machines where we don't have light? Yeah, that's what we do. Then, okay, so let's assume I won't try, you know, to gather enough money and then I get the machine. My system is not working. Then there's no light. Then I go and look for money to gather to get diesel, now diesel gold. Then look for money. Tell me how I want to produce and not sell expensive. It's not possible. Yeah, right. So as it is now, the local way still seems like the sustainability for us that we're looking for. So are you losing your weavers or you still have a lot more weavers that are going to work? Okay, so now with the economy status now, yes, we've lost a lot of weavers. Thank you. I'll tell you more. So what? Okay, so for me now, most of my weavers I can get. And, you know, they're Ghanians. Okay. So it's not making sense. So, no, they come here. Learn. No, they're not learning. They bring the crafting. Remember they have the kente. Yes. The kente and the ashok is just five and six. They bring the, you know, all their own knowledge and everything to come. Let's weave. And then you pay them that money. By the time they go and change it to their cities or their, whatever it is, it's nothing. So they would rather, I think we just go back home. And work there. Continue our kente there. So that way, a lot of them have gone back home. Now let's come back to our own local content, our own people. I remember going to the same myself and like two other colleagues. We do the same business. And then we went to Oiotown. We met this elderly man. When we walked up to him and we told him what we wanted. I had the man looked at us like, at this one serious. Where do you want to get that this age and time? But, you know, I kept pushing. Like, I'm sure we'll get someone that would have this piece that we want. And after going round, I think we just sat down and, okay, let's eat. Even if we did get what we came here to look for. I'm like, he's here or something. Let's have something before we now start facing him. And then the man walked up and said, what do you do? So I had to come down like, Baba, this is my work and this is what I do and everything. And this is what we're looking for. He said he can only give me a piece that he has. So I was like, but Kilo Shelley, what happened now that we have all this? He said, look, we are the ones doing it. But look at me now, I'm old and I'm very frail. I cannot do all this thing anymore. I said, Baba, fish are in there and one more, one more. You didn't give this to the children. He said they know about it. But they also want to be in the bank. They don't want to be. Not necessarily. So now that he said that, I just looked at us like, and that's where we're different. The Ganyans, they send their children to school. Once you finish, you come back, you have to learn that craft. So you see, one of them will tell, ah, Oga, we need a lot of people though, they're going to work for us. Who and who is coming? And then they'll tell you, fuck, my brothers are coming out of school. They're very good with this craft and everything. If you give me a go ahead, madam, I'll tell them to come. So you don't start wondering. You know, they're just leaving school. When did they have to learn? Because that is what they sleep. They wake up too. So they eventually have to know what the craft and what everything is. But at our own end, we're not, you know, passing any... You're not on the kind of home. So that's what is really, really disturbing. Then two, it is very stressful. Now you ask me, ah, do you want any of your daughters or anybody to take this thing off from you? One part of me says, no. Please let them go and have a life. And then the other part says, ah, for the sake of culture, you can't just end it here, let something go on. So we leave it to, all right, then if they have a passion for it. But you know, you can actually instill that passion in them. You can tell them what to do. You can help them build a passion around what you have so that the thing does not just die. So that's just the thing. You know, because now listening to you and the story about the Ghanians, what if our people were a lot more deliberate? Maybe we say that right from secondary school, this should be part of a, like the way you go and learn home economics, you learn technical drawing. Why can't we add that to the curriculum? That would be really nice. Introduce the children. And guess what? Some of them will fall in love with it. I mean, that was how my sons are doing bidding. Right? It's time to make them bid. At the rare making is part of their, I think they have a general cost now that they do that you have to, you have to learn how to tie and die. Because I have the tie and die at home. You have to learn either tie and die, or you do agriculture, or do catering, practicals or something. Then there are the stitches one, where you sew different kinds of stitches. My daughter, my daughter, the eldest of my daughters, did the tie and die thing. I remember her coming home to say, I need to buy this, this, and in my mind I was like, what do you need these things for? She said, oh, she learns this and all. And then, you know, with this new age, you can go on YouTube to learn. Anything. Although, I don't think you can do that with Tashoki because, but then, with all them tie and die with designs, you can go online and learn one thing or, you know, the other. When she started doing it, before we knew what was going on, she had turned, you know, a T-shirt at the rare thing into a business. And I looked and she would tell us all, when we call her in school, okay, we're coming for open day. What do you want me to bring? Do you guys need money? She said, mommy, don't worry, oh, we don't need money. I still have money. Then I'll be like, come, where'd you get the money from? Oh, no, I sold 40 of those shirts and. Wow. So the next time she was going to come home, I sat her down, I was like, come, this is where it starts for me. Let's try it. But you know, that is you channelling a passion towards that craft for that child. So I think it's also about institutionality, like you have said, because what you just mentioned, yes, I did tie and die in school too, right? That's the end of it. Well, it didn't become a business for me. So this thing's happened, I think it's a secondary school, not about GS3 or so. There's the fine arts, they break you into parts and you choose the one that works for you. Some people actually became K-Trans from that class, right? So it's also internationality on the part of the parents and how we talk to our children and what we tell them making money is on the boat, right? I like when you spoke about the amount they are being paid. Are we giving them the right to find you? Because at the end of the day, yes, you've mentioned a particular brand now, we know how much it costs to be able to be adorned by that brand when it's time for your engagement and all that. But then if you, I mean, I don't know what's happening there, right? But if you then check the value system and check those that are really at the core of this business, right? Are they really getting the value for their money? Because if I won't get it and I know that if I go and sit in a bank, like you mentioned, I'll probably get a bit more money. I'll probably go there. Like you said, it's also stressful. So I think intentionality on our part and the government also needs to step in. Because it's not something we can do now. Sorry, I'm cutting in on that one. For the government coming in and all, if we just have our basics. Light. Basics, lights and if we have those ones, I'm sure productivity will be on the top. But you know, the fact that we have to run like practically everything via generator and then you're now looking for diesel before you know what's going on, the tax is already flying on you. Everything is just, you know, left, right and center. You wonder, look, you guys are not giving me anything. I'm trying to push my way through and then you're still coming again. You want to... You know, I like where we are going with this conversation but I cannot live here without trying to understand how we can sustain this ecosystem. Because now you made some, you made mention of something about that, Baba. It struck me instructively. A lot of people have died and they could not move those crafts again because the next generation did not pick it up. So what are we doing intentionally now? Should we say that, can we start creating the YouTube videos if they don't exist? It's not even just about this craft. I remember when I went to the same issue, that's where we have the... Yes, that's where everything is going. They, what's it called? The isolated lake on Iraq, right? Yes. That's the same place. The man who was taking us through and explaining the history and all, he was very frail and he was saying that he was also worried that once he died, there's nobody that understands everything he has been through. There's no transfer of knowledge. So, I mean, this is why I say that... It's because we are weighing our label of things that are changing, actually. So this is why I say that the ecosystem has to be built. You know why? Because if we are very intentional about building that ecosystem, it means that everybody knows that your work is dependent on my work, your own is dependent. So everybody at every point in time is making sure that things, yes, things are flowing, information that needs to be passed is being passed down and all of that. Because if we do not build that ecosystem, tomorrow what happens, if you say, okay, you know, and your children say they're not picking up the business, was that a viable business? Yes, it was a viable business. Why did it not move beyond? And this is why they say that companies in Nigeria don't go up to a hundred years, right? With the principle of the business decides to say, I'm retiring, or maybe it's demise or something. That's the end of that business. So, and I'm seeing this happening, especially with our local content when it comes to the fashion industry. So if you wanted to even, maybe like in a minute or two, like give a kind of idea what sustainability would look like if we wanted to build this ecosystem. What would you suggest? Well, just like you said, we'll implement in schools. Let's start with that one. Probably we'll make it one of the core craft subjects for students in school. And then for businesses that are established, let's start taking in intents. Pass that knowledge on to somebody else. Let people, you know, learn something. Let them take something off you. Ashok is very vast. It doesn't just start and stop at weaving. And you see some people, okay fine, your interest might be in weaving. What mine is in designing. It takes, I mean, it takes a lot to sit down and take up somebody's Ashwebi and then decide, okay, I need to craft at something for this one. You're not just going to look at it and say, this is what fits this or this will suit this. It takes a lot of thinking. Or why would I not want to put stripes on this one? Or I think a plane will work on this and this shouldn't work on this. So if that's the part that you like to do, then focus on it. You know that way, the market starts getting broader. So it starts getting bigger because we now have departments. We have these guys. Do we have people that can come to you to train and do all of this? Oh yes, we do that. A lot of people have come. Some people have gone and they're doing well by themselves. They're running their businesses. So how long do they take to train? Because let's say I don't, they look saying that this is how I do now. No, fine. Now it depends on what you're coming to learn. I mean, once you feel you've gotten enough knowledge to do, I have a particular boy that was with me for like five or six years. By the time I was leaving, and I told him, okay, now that you're going, what are you going to do? At first it was like, I don't know. I said, I said, you don't know. Go and think about it and then come back. Okay, so now that I don't know answer was based on, ma, you are big now. How do I want to start? Is it the strip I want to put out and people will believe that I'm doing something? And again, you know, that's why I said appreciation. People come into the store, if you don't have enough display or you don't have enough pictures that you can throw around, they don't believe you can do it. We need to start believing, you know, although it is very dangerous because you see some people. People are big, people are big ones. Yeah, I think what you can do to help them is also to act like a, what do they call them? Godmother. The way we have Godfather. That's like what your mother in law did. Yes, just like Godmother. Oh yes, so when they come. Exactly. You know, fine. With that one too, there's restriction. I'll tell you. That's why I say, you know, from the mind, one loyalty to the passion. If I have a passion for your kind of business, and I know that, yes, I'm learning from this person, I don't intend to or pray that I stop your business so that I can grow. If you're coming in, yes, with that kind of intention, you don't expect me to be free, like my mother in law was free with me. So I won't be stupid. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm sure. You know, because of angles, there's a lot of angles to it. You wouldn't expect that I'll be open or very free with you, like the way she did with me. I knew, you know, I understood what the world is. She knew that the business was going to be within the family, so she gave it everything. Yes, she gave it to me. She gave it to me on the page of both. But guess what? If we want to sustain with it. We would have to do that. It must be ready to be out. But let's take comments. Let's take a quick one. We run out of time. Okay, so you must take that risk. Good evening, my dear beautiful sisters. Your guest mentioned of accepting what we have and building on it. This business is very lucrative and vital because people who are fashion conscious will want to be current and know what's in vogue. There's a major challenge in the fashion industry when you talk about unavailability of power to run a fashion shop. This alone slows down business and creates problems. My name is Daniel Illo. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Daniel. I mean, this is, I mean, it's been a fantastic conversation. I would just want to implore the government, right? Just like the way you're opening media cities, right? Open fashion cities. You know why I say so? If we have like a government employing tailors, employing weavers, employing these, employing that. Guess what? You're creating a beautiful ecosystem for the fashion industry. So I don't have to go and open my own shop. I just have my design. I come to the place and create and go and sell. I suppose just having people working in silos, right? But thank you so much. We ran out of time. We had a fantastic conversation. Thank you, Manny. Thank you, Uti. Thank you, Mabola. You're welcome. Else in my darling. Before we go, I show you follows. I mean, we can meet on followers on Instagram, and we show everywhere TikTok, everywhere followers. More importantly, follow the engagements and interactions online. Remember to like and share. Invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. Now, if you missed our code, here it is again. Demand quality, not just in products you buy, but in the life of the persons who made it, right? Very, very important. We'll see you guys live on Monday at 8 p.m. We'll bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.