 Llywodraeth chi ddim yn ei achos me firingo gael, a dw i'n niech chi ddigon y ffordd. Rydw i fawr i chi'ch gwaith o' chyflodydd cymryd diolch. A ddigon i chi'ch ei gwneud ei ddweud. Rydw i chi yna'r llwydd George Bamboo ac i chi. Rydw i chi'n gweithio. Gwaith bod yn cwm regulator gyda'r hyn? Charlie Bronson's son. You were on last year. Charlie Fond gave a little 15 minute squeal about his life. Mad story, like he's got a DNA test in prison, confirmed it's your son. He's up for parole now, but first and foremost, how are you? Yeah, I'm all right. Been a bit of a tricky time in the last few weeks. We just did a big documentary on Channel 4, two-parter, something that me and Charlie have been working on together for three years or so. I've come on the show to sort of tell you a few home truths and a few facts because this documentary that we just did, me and Charlie ended up having a big fallout at the end of it because basically what it was, well I'll tell you what, I'll go to the beginning shall I? Shall I start the story at the beginning? Right, so basically for the last couple of weeks I've had so many idiots online saying all sorts of shite and all sorts of crap. You know, they don't know what they're talking about, the majority of them. I've had many many thousands of people sending me really positive messages and stuff about Charlie, but what people don't realise is some of the things that they say online, they're saying where they're completely ill-educated about what's been going on. So I thought the times come for me to reveal who I actually am and what I actually do. You know, there's loads of podcasters out there, you know, well I say podcasters, I mean you're a podcaster. I mean there's people out there, we know our phones, we like 400 like subscribers that think the big podcasters that just talking shite all the time about mine and Charlie's relationship. So I'm going to put it to bed. Basically many years ago, six years ago, I did a documentary on TV on Channel 4. I had my own TV series. I also had loads of businesses, retired, self-sufficient, all the rest of it. So during the course of my life I've been working as a paparazzi and I've been working as an investigative journalist on quite a few occasions with a lot of the papers as an undercover reporter. So, as a result of my TV show on Channel 4, which was Confession to the Paparazzi, Paula Williamson got in touch with me and I got a message on Twitter or whatever it was. Just said, hi George, I'm Charlie Bronson's fiance, Paula. So I was like, oh hello, you're all right. And she said, Charles Bronson wants you to come and visit him. So I said, oh right, okay. I was like, Charles Bronson the prisoner, I'd be interested. Why does he want me to see him? And she said, he's seen you on the telly. So on your paparazzi programme, you know, blah blah blah. I said, right, all right, I'll go and see him. Started all the situation rolling. I went down to Stoke to meet Paula. Absolutely lovely woman, got on really well with her. I got the impression straight away all she was interested in was fame and all the rest of it. But I mean, that's, you know, that's her thing. She's a lovely person, got on really well with her. So then we went through all the paperwork and I was waiting to get approved to go to the prison to visit Charlie. Now obviously, I'm a reporter, I work for the press, that's what I've done all my life. I've also got lots of other businesses. So when I got involved with the paperwork to fill in with the home office to go and visit him, the police had to come around to the house to visit me, see who I was, make sure I wasn't going to try and spring him out of prison or whatever. So I told them that I had loads of furniture shops and that's what I did for a living. And I was interested in Charles Bronson the team on the telly, blah blah blah and all this. So the police went off, filled all the reports in. Meanwhile, Charlie started sending me loads of letters, George Bambi King of the Paparazzi and all this and whatever, looking forward to seeing you and everything. So I went down to Wakefield Prison for the first visit and I went with Paula. So in the car and I'm shitting myself, I'm like, fucking hell, I'm going to see Charles Bronson who I'd seen in the media and everything portrayed in some nutcase, some violent lunatic. That's how he was portrayed. I've never met him before. So cut long story short, went to Wakefield Prison, went through all the security, went through all the dogs sniffing you and all the scanning machines and all the rest of it, got in to see Charlie. People know the story of our met Charlie from before, you know, standing upside down doing press ups and all this when I walked in. So we've got in, we sat there and he's just looked at me like, all right, and he's gone. Me and you can do some work together. And I said, what do you mean? And he went, I want to work with you. I want me and you to work together. So I said, what do you mean? What do you want me to do? And he went, you're the best fucking PR man in the country. I've seen you on the telly. You get on great with all the newspapers. You get stuff done. You get loads of stuff in the media. And, and that's it. I want you to work with me. I want, you know, I want us to do stuff together. You know, I want to make money, I want to make a few quid. I mean, I can't talk about the money side of it with Charlie, because obviously being a criminal, he's not allowed to make any money. He's not allowed to profit. So I'll go into that a little bit later on. So anyway, so we're having this, we're having this meeting for a couple of hours at the right laugh, eating ice cream, drinking coffee, having a laugh, all the rest of it. And, and he said he wanted me to be his PR agent. So I said, right, okay. So what's in it for me? What, you know, are we going to do it? And he just said, I want you to get me loads of publicity. I want you to tell everyone out in the world what's been going on with my life, what's been happening, you know, all the brutality I've been through, expose the system for me and all the rest of it. So I said, yeah, all right, I'm interested. So went off, had a little think about it. We're in the car in the way and Paul is like, right, well, you can be my manager, but Bambi, get me on loose women and this and the other and whatever. Paul is a lovely one. I'm not going to say it's slagging her off. She's absolutely lovely. She's fantastic. You're really good laugh. But she just craved the publicity. And that's essentially what Paul wanted. And, you know, I'm not saying she didn't love Charlie or he didn't love her or whatever, but you know, everybody says that Paul got together with Charlie for the publicity side of it. I mean, that's down to her. I was just working as a PR agent and that's what I do as a media specialist. So I went home, had a little think about it. Went to visit Charlie again. Went to visit him when I said, right, if we're going to do it, we're going to do it 50 50 straight down the middle. I take my 50% of everything we make. The other 50% goes into a pot. We set a company up with a friend of yours or whatever we're going to do. I'm not paying any money to you. I will pay it to whoever you nominate, whichever company or whatever to receive the money because I'm not allowed to pay you anything. So I'm not going to go into that. So I spoke to Charlie further and we basically decided between us, we were going to literally just take the piss out of the prison service and out of the world's media. I'm going to get him in all the papers, make up loads of stories and just fucking generally just have a laugh, keep him entertained while he was in prison. So basically I went to see him again. We had another visit. We ironed out what we were going to do. He said he wanted this publicity, wanted that publicity, wanted the rest of it. He wanted this exposing, wanted that exposing, all the rest of it. So we went on the second visit. And after the second visit, I got banned. I got banned from going to the prison and I was like, why am I banned? So the prison service basically said, you're a reporter, you're a journalist, you're a licensed journalist, member of the NUJ and the BUJ and all that. And you're a journalist. We don't allow journalists into the maximum security facility. We don't allow journalists to speak to cat-a prisoners. You're not allowed to see him anymore and that's it. So I spoke to Charlie. He used to bring me up every night and I said to him, I said I'm banned. I can't see him anymore. Can't come and visit you. That's it. Can't do anything. So he said, well, you're not just going to fucking take that lying down, are you? Are we going to have to come up with a plan? So I said, right, okay then. So Charlie's a very, very clever guy, very clever guy. And as far as the media goes, I'm a very clever guy as well. And people will be watching this thinking, oh, he's fucking on that show to try and self-publicise himself and promote himself. I've got a film on Amazon Prime called Stepdad that was made about my life that I wrote and produced. It's been the cinemas and the telly and everything. It's on Amazon Prime. I've got two books out. I've got 12 businesses. I own three museums. I own art galleries. I've got loads of escape rooms. I've got 40 odd full-time staff that work for me. I didn't need anything from Charles Bronson financially at all. So I said to him, well, for me to get in and to help you learn about all the treatment that's been going on and working towards helping you change and get your parole sorted out and all the rest of it, I need to be involved. And I've come up with a plan. And he said, what's the plan? And I said, well, I was born in 1971, never had any parents, brought up in a children's home, never met me dad. You went into prison in 1974. So how do you feel about having a little son that you didn't know about before you went into prison? And he looked at me and he went, Fucking hell, fucking genius. So I said, right, we need to lay some ground rules down, right? If we're going to do this, we need to do it. And there's only me and you need to know about it, nobody else. So I think you know what you're going to see here. Right. Are you Charlie Bronson's son? No, I'm not Charles Bronson's son. There's more chance of me being the fucking Pope son. I'm a paparazzi photographer. I'm a journalist. And I do a lot of undercover work, PR work with the media, right? So you've got all these brain boxes online that have just literally for years. I've been going, he's a fraud. He's a con man. He's conning Charlie. He's fucking full of shit. He's going on about this DNA test and all those of it. Everything that came up about me being Charlie's son was what me and Charlie did together as a team, both of us, as a team, as a laugh, to make money, to have a laugh, to keep him like buzzing with stuff to do, and to also help me get in a situation where I could carry on seeing him at the prison and I could get involved in his legal battle. Because it wasn't doing very well at the time. He was still beating prison guards and everything up at the time. So, you know, his behaviour was going down early. He had charges coming up where he was appeared in court and all the rest of it. So I said to him, listen. I said, let's do it then. So he said to me, right, prove to me how good you are. So I said, right, what do you mean? And he said, get me on the front page of the Sunday papers. And I was like, fucking hell, this was like Thursday. So I said, right, okay, I'll prove myself. So I said to him, do you want a baby? And I went, a fucking baby? What do I want a fucking baby for? I said, well, you don't want a baby. I said, but just tell me you want a baby. Write me a fucking letter tomorrow. Ring me, tell me you want a baby. And I'll get you on the front page of the Sunday papers. And he went, right, right, let's do it then. Let's do it. So he wrote a letter to me saying, right, I want a baby with Paula. Dead or Dead or Dead and all this sort of stuff. So, sold the story to the papers. Got it on the front page of the Sunday papers. Headline, Bronson, I want a baby. Monday morning, no, Sunday night, phone me up. You're a fucking genius. It's fucking brilliant. I can't believe it. All the screws are talking about it. All the prison lads are talking about it and all the rest of it. So we started having a laugh, right? And we started doing it in a few quid. And every single penny that we earn, I took 50% of everything that we did. The other 50% went to one of his friends to do with whatever they wanted to do with. That's all I want to say about that. So every single deal that we ever did with the newspapers, TV, anything like that, it wasn't just me going out like doing stories and planting these things and getting all this publicity. It was me saying to Charlie, right, watch and think about this idea. Watch and think about that idea. Yeah, do it. Brilliant. Watch and think about this idea. It's shit. Right, we'll leave that one. What about this one? Yeah, it's brilliant. Let's do it. So basically, we just literally ripped the shit out of the prison service because what I'd done was, I went back to the Ministry of Justice and I said, why are you banning me from seeing me dad? And they went, what do you mean? I said, Charles Bronson is my dad. And they went, is he? And I went, yeah, it's my fucking dad. I said, that's it, I've been in the children's zone since 1971. And then what I'd done was, I spoke to Charlie and we'd been sending each other all these coded letters and everything. So I started getting Charlie to write to me and tell me things about my mom and about my childhood that I already knew that he never knew. But because he was writing to me with all these letters saying, oh, your mom was there, your mom was there, I met her in this place, I met her in that, she was off her head. And all these details about my mom, all these letters that were being sent to me were all being read by the prison service. So in the end, the prison service contacted me and said, right, we want to arrange for you to come back and start visiting Charlie. So I said, well, why is the change of heart? And they went, well, we know he's your dad and we can't break any family ties and we want to keep that family tie together so you can come back and start visiting him. So I've turned up to visit him again and next thing, I've got a fucking badge when you go in for the visitor's badge and it says your name, George Bambi. And then it says friend. And then on this occasion I went to visit him, George Bambi and it said, Sond, underneath. So I've got in. So I've walked into the maximum security unit. I think at this time he was at Franklin Prison. And I've walked in and he's gone, all right, stand! And I've gone, all right, dad! And he's gone, do you know what? He's fucking hell, he's fucking, he's mad. We've even got the same nose. We've even got the same jawline and he starts going on about all this and me and Emma are just like laughing to each other and pissing about and all the rest of it. And that was it. That was the agreement that me and Charlie had. You know, I worked as a PR agent for him. And you know, we had a really good laugh. We pulled the wall over the eyes of the prison service. And everybody knows Charlie loves being in the papers. I mean he used to ring me up with some ludicrous stuff sometimes. I mean he'd ring me up saying, right, George, I've had me done it today. I should have had five spots and he's only four. Right, get it exposed, get it in the Sunday star this week. And I'm like, Charlie, doesn't work like that. They're not interested in how many fucking potatoes you've had this Sunday. Let's think of something else. So then we sit there and then he'd ring me and he'd go, right, I've got this idea. Or I'd say, right, I've got that idea. So we just keep coming up with these ideas. And the ideas were absolutely ridiculous. So I said to Monday, I said, right, should we go for another front page Sunday paper? I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What have you got? What have you got? So I said, well, have you ever done a will? And he went, no. I said, well, why don't you do a will, right, and send it to me and tell me that when you die, you want your body handed over to me and you want your brain pickled, put in a jar in my crime museum. And he went, fucking brilliant. So he sent me a letter over through his solicitor, all signed and everything, dead official. When I die, I want my brain handed over to George Bambi in my son, put in a jar, pickled and put in his museum. So sent the letter over front page of Sunday papers. He absolutely loved it. He used to ring me and we'd just been laughing our heads off. I mean, we were just literally running rings around the papers. We were just making up all sorts of fucking nonsense. But to me, it was good because obviously, I mean, you know, I was making money out of it. I can't say Charlie was making money out of it, but I was making 50% of everything that we made. We'll just leave it at that. Charlie was really, really happy. He was enjoying himself. For the last six years, I've been paying his canteen. Every single week, he gets 50 quid to spend at canteen in prison. Some prisoners only get like a five or if you've not got any family or whatever. Charlie always had his full-time and every week for the last five or six years, I've always paid him every single week so he can eat what he does, whatever. Nice little nest egg that he's got. Well, indirectly, whatever, through one of his friends. That's between Charlie and whoever. I don't get involved in that. Any deals that we do have always been completely open, been completely honest. We've had a brilliant relationship over the years. We've had a cracking relationship. And then it starts saying, right, why don't you get me on the telly? Why don't you get me on this program? Why don't you get me on that program? So I'm organising all these programs, getting him on, getting his face on the telly. And then it started seeing each other. And it got just fucking too much for me because then he wanted me to start managing Paula. So I'm managing Paula and I'm managing the UK's most notorious violent prisoner in the prison system. And I'm like, how the fuck have I got involved in this? I'm enjoying it and I'm enjoying the process. But the thing was, I struck up a really, really close friendship with Charlie and we got on really, really well. We had a mega laugh. I go and see him every two weeks. Most of the time, I might miss a month there or there, but generally I'd seen 10, 12 times a year. I've seen him, we sit there, eat loads of food and we'll be coming up with our next idea of what have we wanted to do and we'll be sitting there laughing our bollocks off and chuckling and all this and whatever. And then you've got all these fucking followers online. Obviously Charlie's not doing Charlie any good being in the papers and doing this and doing that and whatever. And I'm saying to Charlie, all these people are saying, this is all bollocks with the paper, you shouldn't be doing it. Fuck them, fuck them. This is being used. It's nothing to do with anything else. Tell them to keep their mind out of their own business. This is our business. Nothing to do with anything else and that's it. So I just carried on working with Charlie and over a period of time, we had a really, really good relationship and I got really close to him. And I got that close to him. It was actually like having a father and son relationship. I mean, fucking used to hug when we go in. We'd have a fucking hug when we left with, you know, you know, tell me how proud I was of him. I tell him how proud I was of him, behaving himself. And then after a while, I got to the stage where I was thinking, he shouldn't fucking be in this prison. Shouldn't be in here. And I've seen it to myself, why is he still in? And then I've seen loads of loads of stuff with Paula and then he turned around one day and said he's getting married to Paula. He said to me, right, I wanted to arrange a wedding. I was like, fucking hell. So I'm arranging this wedding. He's ringing me every half an hour. Right, get a dwarf. Right, get this, get someone a juggling. I want some llamas. I want this and it was ridiculous. Organise this wedding anyway. Sort with all the wedding now. And wedding went ahead. Paula, obviously, you know, she was getting married at Wakefield. We did a deal with the papers. All the money and everything went to Paula. I took my 50%. Paula got her 50%. So everything had to be Paula. She got 50% of everything. So then I was taking on Loose Women. I was taking on Lorraine this morning. All the different programmes. I mean, it was ridiculous. I mean, we were literally just walking around and getting three grand off that show. Walking in the next studio on Lorraine, getting another three grand. Walking in the next studio, getting another two grand off that. It was ridiculous. It was a farce. But Paula was making a good few quid. I was making a good few quid. And it was good fun. It was good fun. Now, people watching this will be saying, you know, is it good fun? You're talking about someone's life here and all the rest of it. What they need to remember is everything I've ever done with Charlie has always been with his complete and full knowledge and his approval before I've done anything that we've ever done. So. I think that's the main thing, though. I think, listen, when I had you on, I found that you're an investigative journalist. You've done all the paparazzi stuff. Yeah, but everyone knew that straight away. I had you Charlie Bronson Sander's question marks, but then you had Charlie Fohen and I thought, possible. Right. You know when we're on the show? Last time I was on the show. Charlie Bronson happened to ring up in the middle of the podcast and I was like, oh, hello, Charlie. I'm on The James English Show. I spoke to him a couple of nights before and said I'm going on The James English Podcast in a couple of hours. Who's fucking James English? I went, well, it's this right ugly bastard from Glasgow that fucking talks loads of shit to loads of people. He talks more shit than me, Charlie. Fucking brilliant. So he goes, right, right. Get me on it. Get me on the show. So I said, right. I said, well, I'm doing the podcast tomorrow one o'clock or whatever. Ring me half one on the dot. I'll put me, leave me phone on. When you ring me, just be aware that you are going to be on The James English Podcast. So watch what you say. Be careful what you say. Blah, blah, blah. So anyway, we're having a little chat. After 12, the phone goes, hiya, Dads. Hiya, son. How are you? All right. And then we start having a chat. I'm like, fucking hell, that's weird. Well, it's Charlie Foley. I can't believe that was really good timing. Phone down. I'm a journalist. It's what I fucking do. I set things up with the media. Soon as I came on the show and like, soon as we started the ball rolling, the one thing that really, really upsets me about this whole thing. Soon as the father and son thing started rolling, it just gathered pace. It gathered more pace and more pace and more pace. Then you've got all these podcasters, all these knobheads online going, that ain't fucking Charlie Bronson, Sally's a fucking for all these mugging Charlie off. He's, Charlie doesn't know what the fuck's going on in prison. He's taking the piss out of him. He's living off his name. He's living a lavish lifestyle on the back of Charlie. I was fucking worth fucking... I was a millionaire fucking five years before I met Charlie. I've got loads of businesses. I've got fucking house paid off. I'm retired. All these people saying that I've made money off Charlie. Me and Charlie had a business arrangement and it was a really good business arrangement and we did really, really well. So it is what it is. But came to the stage where with me working under cover as you would say, me and Charlie made a pact that if we did this, we would never tell anybody that I wasn't a biological son. Right. So I said, right, okay. If that's how we're going to do it, that's how we're going to do it. I won't even tell members of my family. So I didn't even tell my wife. Didn't even tell my son. I didn't tell anybody. Charlie didn't tell any of his family. Didn't tell his mom, didn't tell his brother. And I'm like, well, what's going to happen? You know, they're going to fucking say something. And he's like, fuck what I do with them? It's business. It's nothing to do with them. Tell them to kick the fucking noses out. I'll fucking deal with it and that's it. And I was like, right, okay. I mean, my life was fucked up anyway. I mean, I was brought up in a kid's home. Never had any family. Don't have fuck what I do with my mom, my dad's dead. Never, ever met him in my whole life. So never had a dad. It all worked out like it was engineered and it was perfectly put together. But then I saw a podcast the other day and I was reading something which made me think to myself, right before that we did this doc just so people know. We've been working on this documentary for about three years and when we used to speak on the phone, we used to call the people because I was working for Channel 4 and my remit was to get video footage and photographs of Charles Bronson for the TV. Something that nobody had ever been successful at doing in the past because the prison service, Dennis Nielsen, all these other people, they allowed the cameras to go in and interview them. They would never ever let the cameras go in to interview Charlie because they were worried about what he was going to say because of all the fucking brutality that it had suffered because he used to get brutalised all the time. They never ever wanted Charlie's father's sake to be able to say anything. So if you're walking to a prison with a camera and you film something or you've got covert cameras on you, you're looking at two years inside. So that wasn't an option. I remember the second... I think it was the second time I went to see... I don't know the first time I went to see him. He went, he looked at me and he goes, right! I've seen these things on the telly and I went, what? And he went, I've got an idea. And Charlie had some great ideas but he had some fucking much stupid ideas so it was funny, we used to piss ourselves. And he goes, every morning, 10 o'clock in the morning, I go out on the exercise yards, tomorrow, get one of them satellites from space, get the picture to zoom down and I'll lie on me back on the floor doing press-ups and you can get some pictures and videos of me. I said, Charlie's from a fucking satellite in space so you're having a fucking laugh. What do you mean? I've seen him on the telly and I said, no, it doesn't work like that, Charlie. It don't work. Anyway, so I'm going to have a laugh about it. So Charlie goes, right. You're my son now. This is obviously moving later on. We can have pictures taken together. So we had some pictures taken together. Charlie said, right, get me the papers. Get me the papers. Sell them. Get me the papers. So we did that. All the thing with the son was gathering momentum and all the rest of it. And then he never liked technology. He never has technology. So in his cell he's got a dab radio. He's got a telly. That's it. He's allowed a PlayStation. He won't have one. DVD player. He won't have one. I said, why don't you get a DVD player and you can watch the film, Bronson. Fucking watch it. If you... No, I'm not having a fucking DVD player. I'm not having... I'm not having it. I'm not doing it and that's it. And when Charlie says something, he means it. And he's very unreasonable sometimes with his stubbornness because unless you explain to him what you're actually talking about or what you're trying to get at, so he acknowledges what you're actually talking about, he'll just turn it down and that will be it. There'll be no talking about it again. He's fucking a baby mind up and that's it. So we've had fucking loads of rows over the years. Loads of times. I did a newspaper article once. He said, right. I said, all your artwork, you've got pictures of stabbing people and fucking guns and blood and all that shit everywhere. I said, why don't you try and do a nice piece of artwork? Well, all these artworks nice, obviously. I'm not... Don't really like that. Why don't you do a nice piece of artwork? And where do you want to live when you come out of prison? He said, what I live in a caravan. I said, we'll do a nice, nice picture of a caravan. Do a really nice picture of a caravan and do some flowers. I'm not fucking doing flowers. Fucking flowers. I said, just do a nice picture of a caravan and picture where you're going to be when you come out with some fence posts and fucking trees and all that and you know, show me what's on your mind where you want to be when you come out. So he did this picture, the caravan and it was absolutely sensational. Absolutely unbelievable. It had flowers on it. It had the fucking sun. It had the sea in the background. This caravan. And it was amazing. And then you look closer and the caravan's got bars on the windows and it's got cameras on the top of the caravan. It's got barbed wire on the top and all. I'm like, why have you got all that? And he's like, well, when I come out and be fucking caravan I'm having bars on me windows and I'm like, why do you want bars on me windows if you get out? And he went, well, I fucking had bars on me windows for 49 years. I want fucking bars on me windows and I have bars on me windows and that's how the system has got him like mentally. That's how he's been programmed. So anyway, going back to this program with Channel 4 he said to me ages ago, I want my own program on the telly. He said, there's loads of programs you've done for me in the past where I've been mentioned and I've been on them and you know, I've been blah, blah, blah. I want my own program and I want to be able to tell my own story and I want to be able people to see me on the telly talking and telling my story. So I said, right, okay. I said, well, I'm going to have to work out a way that we can do it because I can't come in with covert cameras and start filming you know because it's illegal and I'll end up getting locked up. And he's like, well, don't fucking worry about that if you get locked up. I'll get you looked after you'll be looked after like a fucking lording like a couple of years you'll be out in 12 months you'll have the best fucking time all the boys are like and I said Charlie, I'm not fucking going to prison by smuggling the covert cameras but it's not fucking happening. That's it. Right, how are we going to do it? So anyway, obviously I've been working for Channel 4 for years and I actually put this idea to Channel 4 or 5 4 or 5 years ago to say I'm doing this under cover program with Charles Bronson. I want to expose what's been happening to him inside the brutality the way the system's letting down and all the rest of it and I want to do this program under cover and the newer wasn't his son Channel 4 newer wasn't his son because I pitched the idea to him not being his son so they said, oh no we're not really interested we don't want to do a program on Charles Bronson there's loads of programs on Charles Bronson you need something different I've got them to sign an agreement to say a nondisclosure agreement so that they wouldn't talk about it or pitch the program and I'm saying I'm not Charles Bronson's son I'm under cover I'm in there I'm in the maximum security facility as a reporter the only one that's ever got in to see Charles Bronson I go to see him all the time I go to all his management meetings so every month I go and sit down and there's me and Charlie and his lawyer, Dean then there's a psychologist there's the parole officer there's his wing commander there's this, there's that there's all these people sit there for an hour and just talk about how Charlie's been getting on for the whole month and what we can do to improve it and what we can do to improve his outlook to try and get him out and all the rest of it I said, listen this is a fucking great program so they said well we can't put the program together because we need you know we need footage of Charles Bronson we need Charles you know that's what we need so they I said well why don't you just do a program about Charles Bronson I'll do all these phone calls I'll talk to him you know all the letters and they're like no no it doesn't work for us whatever so I said right fine no worries so I said to him I will get you video footage I will get you video footage of Charles Bronson and I'll get you video footage of Charles Bronson telling his story and if I do that I've got a deal so they were like if you do that you fucking know you've got a deal so there's nothing more sad about it then Covid came along a year or so after so Covid came along so I'm on these visits with Charlie and I knew Covid was happening all the rest of it so on these visits blah blah blah and then all the visits just stopped because obviously with the lockdown and everything but because I was Charlie's son or portraying myself to be Charlie's son with Charlie's obviously fallback in the fall knowledge they couldn't stop us visiting each other so I wrote to the home office and I said listen you can't stop me visiting my dad for 12 months you can't do it you need to organise something for me to see him so they came back which I thought they would with a thing called purple visits which meant that because he's a cat A double cat A prison in the maximum security unit they'd take him into a cell and it was like a you know what look like when you get a prisoner that gives evidence of court so they're you know they're sitting this sitting this special cell they're on a link and the link came to my iPad at home which was a really big iPad but I paid a couple of grand for it proper big 4k big screen and all the rest of it so we started having purple visits three or four days before this I said to him right I've got a deal with one of the CV companies and he went what do you mean I said I've got a two-part deal two one-hour specials primetime TV with the big boys and he went who's the big boys I went well I can't tell you the big boys are but when I say the big boys you know who I'm talking about you know I'm talking about the TV people and he said yeah yeah yeah yeah so I said right I said so what is your dream what do you want to do this whole thing has been about me exposing the system on your behalf and giving you the opportunities to tell your story you've done loads of phone calls with people and there's been a few phone calls on the internet and all the rest of it people are fucking bored with phone calls they want to see your face so he went yeah yeah yeah how are you going to get my face on that and I said I turned around and I said right but they've got this thing called purple visits where you go into a room and we talk to each other on video and he went oh fuck off I'm not doing that I'm not fucking doing it I'm not doing it I'm not doing it I went Charlie if you want to do what we want to do you need to do it fuck off I'm not doing it I'm not fucking standing there talking to a fucking screen and looking at you and you looking at me on the other fucking screen that's not a fucking visit we can't have a coffee we can't have a magnum ice cream we can't have a sandwich I said Charlie when you go to bed tonight just think about what I'm saying to you right just think about what I'm saying to you um and then he said right well I'm not even going to fucking think about it I'm not fucking doing it and that's it I'm not doing it so I said I'm not fucking about with technology I'm not doing it so when we write to each other we have certain codes and certain ways that we can write things where he can read freely what I'm saying and I can read freely what he's saying but the screws can't read what we're saying if that makes sense basically fucking coded letters so basically one of the letters I said to him listen right I've done a fucking deal with channel 4 two one hour episodes yeah and when you're talking to me I'm going to be at home with a big screen in front of me your face will be on that screen and I will be talking to you and when I'm doing that I will have channel 4 in my house videoing you on the screen talking to me that's what I said in the coded letter so I sent the coded letter off I'm allowed to email him so I emailed him the letter off about half 10 the next morning email comes through from the prison service your purple visits has been approved right so he's rang me up he's gone right right mom's the word mom's the word and that means don't say anything I went yeah yeah mom's the word mom's the word what what and he went right um have you had um have you had a little purple visits invitation to visit me by television and I went yes I have and he went right mom's the word say no more say no more so I wrote to him I said listen you need to understand every purple visit that we have is going to be recorded right whatever you say to me on these half an hour visits for the next 12 but he went on for about 12 months whatever you say to me for the half an hour on each of these visits will be recorded and it will be it will be on channel four that will be certain bits that are in it will be certain bits that are not in it I have no control over what they put in the program and what they don't put in the program so you need to bear that in mind so don't say anything in that visit that you don't expect to be on the telly right he said right I've completely understand I've got yet completely understand fucking buzzing can't wait I'm fucking buzzing so we had our first visit so I've got all the fucking crew in the house videoing all the uh videoing all the visits and all that so we've done the visit and as we've done the visit we finished the visit we've had a good chat I'm like all right dad how you doing it's like look it's going to go fucking hell it's fucking meant I can fucking see you thank you that fucking picture in the kitchen and you'd see me on the tv show that we did you could you know you could see him clearly on the screen he could see into my house he could see me he completely understood what was happening end of the first half an hour visit goes the phone rings literally 30 seconds after put the phone up hello fucking hell did channel four film it did they fucking get me did they get that bit about I'm like Charlie shut the fuck up Mr Lee don't say a fucking word don't say ring me back in a bit ring back in five minutes phone down two minutes later right right what's happening what's happening nothing filmed it all it's brilliant did you get that joke I said about this and blah blah I'm like Charlie ring me back in an hour anyway channel four of God so he's rang me back so I've thought to myself we've got half an hour footage he said loads of things that he wanted to say but I wanted to keep it going because I wanted to start talking about the brutality that he'd experienced and about you know prison officers going into his cell fucking two o'clock in the morning twelve of them and kicking the shit out of him while he's asleep in bed dragging him out of bed and battering him and everything that he went through because he was he was traumatised when I go and visit him he's got fucking scars all over his head his neck his face his arms everywhere where he's had the shit kicked out of him so started speaking a bit more openly and a bit more freely on the phone because I thought fucking if the bubble is a whatever Charlie's said loads of stuff they've got enough for a show Charlie wanted to get his word out there and all the rest of it so we've done all that so we started speaking on the phone I just said to him I said listen has that gone off? all right so me and Charlie started having more regular phone conversations and when I say more regular phone conversations he was ringing me every fucking two minutes it was a nightmare I love talking to him get on great with him but when he gets something in his head you can't get him off the phone so he rings for 15 minutes then he cut him off then he rings for another 15 minutes then he cut him off then he rings again it fucking goes on all night so when he knew that we were doing this programme I said to him right I'm getting X amount of money right you're not allowed any of this money so what I did was I did it through my crime museum so I charged Channel 4 yeah to do the programme and then when the programme was finished another company invoist me for a consultancy fee for doing work for the programme and that invoice was paid now what happens to that money nothing to do with me because I can't physically give that to Charlie I'm not allowed to give it to him he's not allowed to earn any money from it so this consultant that was working for us got paid a really decent sum of money so and that consultant very good friend of Charlie's so I'll let you draw your own conclusions nothing to do with me so at this stage we've got loads of TV stuff it starts ringing me all the time so I said right Charlie let's fucking get this sorted out let's do things properly right let's fucking get to work on getting you out so going back a year or so before 18 months before all the wedding and all that sort of stuff or a couple of years before whatever it was all the wedding stuff was going on he had this lawyer and at the wedding I was looking at his lawyer no-one's allowed any cameras in there because Paula I've done a deal for Paula with the newspapers where she got a good few thousand quid basically paid for all the wedding and Paula had a few grand on top and I had a few grand on top I mean you know I'm doing a job at the end of the day as brutal as this may sound I'm not Charles Bronson's son I'm a PR agent and this whole thing has been a job right the fact that me and Charlie become very close and become very pallion we've fucking got on like an house on fire and got on great it's just basically how the journey's transpired but the culmination of it is this has just been a job even though I've thoroughly enjoyed it I've done some great things said to Charlie right we need to get you sorted now get you out get you out of prison so at the wedding I saw his solicitors first time I ever met him he's fucking stood there his pest is taking loads of selfies I'm fucking Charles Bronson's solicitor where are you fucking here I'll have a picture of me I thought to myself who the fuck's this clown so I've locked him up and I've locked all the work he's done I thought he's not doing fuck all for Charlie everything he's doing is for himself I'm fucking Charles Bronson's solicitor that's you know that was the thing so I said to Charlie right I said this ain't fucking right I said we need to get you another legal team so at this stage people don't understand Charlie they don't understand how he works he's a very clever guy and he has a lot of people on the outside doing things for him there's a lot of people that have little fucking jobs that they do for him sending him postcards and selling artwork and whatever they do but you know that's nothing to do with me that's their business he sends me artwork and I sell artwork for him and you know we have an agreement there's nothing to do with anyone else and that's it so he had this little fucking parasite that was running round for him called Rod Harrison when I came on the scene and I said I was Charlie's son Rod Harrison was his best mate it was his best man at the wedding did everything for him and was like oh fucking hell if you want anything to do with Charlie you need to go through Rod's Rod is the fucking Mr Big in the whole operation he's fucking Mr Big he's the big cheese this Rod he had Facebook groups on and fucking this and he's controlling Charlie's life telling him what he could do what he couldn't do telling people who could write to him who couldn't write to him and all the rest of this fucking bollocks so I thought he's fucking gotta go the solicitor's gotta go he had a look alike at the wedding looked like Charlie he had to fucking go there was loads of people involved in Charlie's circle that were making a fucking mockery out of him that had to go they had to fucking they had to get out of dodge they were making him look a complete swat so after the wedding a lot of things changed so then the father and the son thing was you know gathering momentum then this fucking Rod Arison and all his gang of fucking cronies and all that that's not his son Charlie said he's definitely not his son he's definitely not his son he's a fucking fraud he says that and the other so I'm speaking to the phone on Charlie speaking to Charlie the phone going Charlie this fucking Rod and whatever tell everyone I'm not your fucking oh I'll have a word with him I'll fucking tell him he shouldn't be saying that right okay next week somebody else is fucking that somebody else he said he just said I said right Charlie I'm not fucking about anymore you need to sort it out right because me and you have got a business arrangement right we're both very clever people we both know what we're doing we both agreed to everything at the start and this fucking guy's making us both look like a pair of twats and he's like right fucking I'll speak to him don't worry don't worry anyway nothing happened again he rang me up and he said right I spoke to him he'll never mention it again I've told him don't fucking get involved in my business carry on fucking sending the postcards doing this fucking do because he was these little fag if you like used to go off and do all his fucking jobs for him and run around left right and centre thinking he missed the big fucking Billy big bollocks selling all his art making loads of fucking money fair play to him as long as he was giving Charlie his fucking share out of it it's entirely up to him so he's doing all this next thing this story comes out in the in the mirror and the story in the mirror came out saying Charles Bronson cuts all contact with his son everything's a fucking lie he's just after his five minutes bit of fame or whatever and it's not his son Charlie's cut all contacts with him this looks 2017 don't want anything to fucking do with him and that's it finished so Charlie didn't ring me for a few days and I thought fucking strange what's going on here so I wrote to him and I said you need to fucking ring me so he rang me and he went I said what's up and he went I said what the fuck is this all about in the paper and that fucking no contact with me and all this whatever he goes what you're on about and this Rod Harrison had put something online saying Charlie's the one anything to do with fucking George he's a liar he's a fucking this and he put it on the Facebook group and on this Facebook group will all the fucking cronies follow it there's some really nice genuine people that have genuinely got Charlie's interests at heart which is great there's also a lot of fucking dickheads on there so what was happening is the press were all being his friends on Facebook because obviously anything that went on there they were setting up fake profiles and all sorts of shit to find out about Charlie's that he put stories in there that's where the mirror and the story from then they contacted Rod he gave him some sort of quote so I got a copy of the mirror I sent it to Charlie I went right fucking deals off there's the paper you fucking made me look like a twat you've not kept your side of the story Charlie went fucking went absolutely ballistic what the fucking hell of that little fucking twat why the fuck is I fucking told him not to get involved in my fucking business and he just cut Rod Harrison off straight away just cut him off stone dead had nothing more to do with him I'll fucking kill him he's a fucking rat he's next to his app fucking the other or whatever I said so what's happening then are we carrying on with the fucking father son so fucking right we are fucking right we are so we just carried on carried on for a few years I said right then we go back to the bit about we're trying to get him out of prison so I phone the solicitor up I said right Charlie I want to look after all your legal stuff I want to get you the best possible representation that you can possibly have not some fucking solicitor in leads that sits in the fucking courtroom waiting for someone to rob a packet of bacon off the shelf and go and fucking get his legal aid money or whatever what did a proper professional so I contacted a really really good friend of mine at ITV that's absolutely wonderful I'll just say her first name's Claire I'm not going to say a surname or whatever but she's absolutely amazing she was really helpful so through my contact with Claire and some contacts at ITV and the legal team or whatever we got to work to find out who the best possible legal representation could possibly be and there was only two people in the country that could do it one of them had just retired and the other one was a guy called Dean Kingham and Dean Kingham was the guy that got Harry Roberts out of prison Harry Roberts killed three police officers he said never get out and on top of this Dean Kingham was a specialist at working with prisoners that were in segregation solitary confinement the CSE unit which is the most secure place in the fucking country and he's the only one that I'd experienced and he's the only one that ever got anyone out of the CSE unit so I got in touch with Dean and I said Dean I wanted to take this case on for it he's like no, no, no I said no I really, really want you to do it you really need to look at this case this fucking guy's been brutalised for years he's a product of the system they've fucking completely ruined him they've turned him into a fucking animal and now they've got him locked in the fucking cage he won't let him out they won't let any media access to him they won't give him any you know any help whatsoever and he's got this complete fucking doughnut that's been representing him and need just to get involved in this anyway I ended up going to the officers I fucking did all sorts I got on my knees I just said look fucking please he went right I'll go and see him I was like yes so he went to see Charlie they got on like a house on fire and that was it we had the best legal team behind us in the fucking country the best in the country next thing you've got all these Rod Harrison's and all these fucking idiots online oh yeah Charlie's got a new legal team I've sorted out for him now no you fucking didn't Rod Harrison you're an absolute lying twat no you didn't I got his legal team sorted for him so regardless of who got it or whatever he got the best legal team and it was me that got that legal team for him so spent hours and hours and hours traveling to see Dean and speaks on the phone every day doing all the legal stuff getting all the psychology reports and blah blah blah all the parole stuff and then one day I said to Dean I said right these parole hearings it just goes in a room there's three random people there he sits there for a couple of hours he's chat shy and then they just say no and send him back to his fucking cell for another two years and that's how it goes in it and he said yeah it is so I said to him right why can't we get a parole hearing I said if a prison or if a judge is good enough to and a jury is good enough to send someone to prison for a life sentence then surely a judge or the public are good enough to decide whether he comes out again so Dean said never happen never get a public parole here and there's absolutely fucking no chance that's how the parole system works so I said well I don't give a fuck how the parole system works I want a public hearing for Charlie where his parole hearing is going to be heard in public so all the press can go everyone in the world can fucking see it and everybody can see what's going on and know everything about all the facts all the statements all the brutality they've given him fucking PTSD whatever you know fucking psycho all sorts of stuff they've completely fucking brutalised him so the solicitor said it won't work so I wrote to Dominic Robb and I went to see Anne Weddickham who was the head of the ministry of justice a few years ago knocked on the door in Davenge lived there mate knocked on the door went in and went all right I'm nice to meet you, you're all right I said do you mind if a communist a little bit of a community thing want to talk to me I said yeah yeah yeah no worries I was with me misses so she said I'll put a coffee on she walked in the kitchen made a coffee and fucking sat there with Anne Weddickham having a coffee I said right can I just ask you a question why didn't you ever contemplate releasing Charles Bronson from prison and she went well he's a murderer I've never I've never signed the paperwork for him and I said how many people did he murder and she went why I don't know and have to look at the records I think it was like four or five or something and then she turned around and she said why are you interested in that and I said oh I'm his son and she'd like nearly fucking spatterty all over me so I said this is the problem with Charlie you were the minister of justice for the government and you wouldn't sign the paperwork because as soon as the paperwork arrived you thought he was a murderer I said he's never murdered anybody that's what you're dealing with then I wrote to Dominic Rabble and I said right fucking forget this parole system behind closed doors you keep calling him into a room every two years sitting there for an hour and half and then telling him to fuck up back to his cell he's never getting out again I said I want this public I want the press to be involved and Dominic Rabble said never happen yeah but thanks for the letter I've still got the fucking letter home yeah thanks for writing Mr Bambi um yeah but the parole system is the process and that's how it works and it will never change Dominic Rabble fucking whatever so I got this letter so I thought fuck you I'm not fucking settling for that so I said to Dean right get a fucking judicial review get the fucking lawyers you know get to work and all the rest of it so anyway cut a long story short we took the ministry of justice and the government to court we took them to court and we fucking won we won the case so as a result of three years of legal shites that took us fucking ages right we won the case and we got the right for Charlie I me personally with Dean the lawyers got the right for Charlie to have a public parole hearing so that means his parole hearing was going to be heard at the High Courts of Justice in London the whole press was going to be there the whole fucking world media was going to be there and it was a perfect opportunity for Charlie's story to be told all around the country and all around the world it was going to be in every paper every newspaper every internet site every news channel tv channel the fucking lot it's going to be everywhere which was absolutely brilliant right so I've absolutely worked my bollocks off to get this legal too right we've beaten the government we've beat the Ministry of Justice at their own game we've got an open parole hearing I've worked my fucking ass off I've not slept for fucking weeks on end constantly googling this, googling that looking up case law and fucking all sorts of stuff the same time I'm visiting Charlie and I'm going to visit parole officers that have worked for the parole services before and I'm saying what has Charlie got to what has my dad got to do to get out because at the time he was my dad whatever so what has my dad got to do to get out of prison and these acts parole people the same right the main criteria he needs to show remorse for his crimes yeah the other one is got to be safe we've got to be 100% sure that if we release him into the music he's got to be safe so the next fucking oh my god two months trying to I'm going on these visits with Charlie I'm talking to him when we're doing the video visits has been recorded with Channel 4 I'm saying to him the night before I'm going to talk to you about something tomorrow called remorse you need to listen to me what I'm talking about because I'm talking about remorse and what the parole board want to hear get all right fucking whatever I'll just ring it and we'll fucking talk about whatever so don't forget it's all been recorded so he rings me up the video visit starts I'm saying right Charlie talk to me about Phil Danielson talk to me about what happened I was giving him the opportunity to tell me from his side what happened with Phil Danielson and Charlie was like yeah I overreacted you know and I'm like well you didn't overreact Charlie you did something that was pretty fucking terrifying for the poor guy you kept him hostage for three days yeah but you know I didn't hurt him I was tickling him and I fed him and all this and I'm like yeah but Charlie the parole's coming up right you need to talk properly it does talk properly I'm not saying that I said but you need to talk methodically and you need to show that you're remorseful for what you've done and I said do you know the difference between regret and remorse and he said yeah I said well go on then I said I'm the parole officer you're in front of me I'm just saying to you now you've took Phil Danielson hostage why should I let you out and he turned around and he goes right he says I'll tell you now I don't regret anything in life I've had a fucking great laugh I don't regret anything it was what it was and that was it and I'm like right you can't say that I'm fucking away I'm fucking saying whatever I want I said you can't say that to the parole board what you should be saying is I fucking took that Gaiostus for three days looking back now I can't believe what I did I must have fucking ruined his life mentally he's not been at a work again I can't believe I did it it was awful I think about it all the time I think about how awful I was when I did that and what an awful effect it would have had on his life Charlie's like ah fuck off fuck off I'm like yet listen I don't regret anything in life it was what it was it was what it was let's move on so I'm trying so hard to educate him about how the parole board want to perceive him to try and get him out I'm telling him everything's been recorded don't fucking say anything that you don't want to be shown on this program telling them that quite clearly then he's going right I'll tell you this story about when I was in Parkhurst this fucking guy nicked me up and me muck bucket and all that and I got this fucking tomatoes all John and fucking stuck in his head and his neck and fucking he was clara everywhere and I'm like fucking sitting now I've got the whole film creepy I'm like fuck right let's move on and let's talk about something else so then we start talking about the Iraqi hostages tell me a story about the Iraqi hostages do you know them guys took 269 people hostage three Iraqi terrorists on a plane in the Heathrow they took him off the plane they caught him and put him in Belmarsh Charlie went into the cell barricaded the cell kept him for three days had one with a new surrounding net got the other ones tickling his feet and one was under the fucking bed shitting himself right and he went and he went right so you want to come into England and take 200-nod fucking passengers on a plane hostage British people in England and then you come into fucking Belmarsh you bumped into the wrong fucking person lads cos I'm going to take you hostage now boots the fucking door shot keeps them for three days doesn't kill them doesn't batter them doesn't do anything I mean the three Iraqians to have been absolutely fucking shitting themselves but so would the 260-odd hostages on the fucking plane that had just landed from Afghanistan or whatever or what had been shitting themselves so anyway the end of the siege comes Charlie gets seven years added to his sentence seven months later they were let out of prison and sent back home where's the fucking justice in that and I'm not saying that he should have took a mosque and I'm not saying what he did was right but where is the justice in that you know they should have gone to prison for 20 years for that Charlie quite right he should have got seven years but he should have got seven years and they were let out six months later and all these things that have been happening with Charlie in prison I've just been festering in his brain and he's convinced and most of the people in the outside well they're all convinced that the system is totally against him they'll never let him out and all this anyway we carried on doing the program and we're doing the program for about two years and when Paula was getting married we shut loads of stuff like at the wedding and all the rest of it we've got everyone to sign all these release forms and all the rest of it as you do Paula was like yeah you know I want to film everything and all this and brilliant whatever so you know it was all being you know all being filmed and all this stuff whatever and then you know there was no presenter so I mean there was a situation like when I went to Ira's house Charlie's mom's and she lived in Aberystwyth ever such a nice lady absolutely lovely lady so we went down Paula took me down to meet Ira and with the film crew she was happy for us to be there and we went round and we've got a you know a few drinks and we had a laugh and all the rest of it and we filmed loads of really nice stuff for telling us all you know Charlie's childhood and you know all about me and Tom Arden loads of really nice stuff but the thing is with Ira she's got such a fantastic sense of humour she's dead funny she's really really funny and dead down to worth one of the nicest people you can ever meet so when all the footage was all put into a big fucking pool and then the Channel 4 guys just pick it all out edit it together I never see that process that's out of my remit I'm the one that fucking got the program commissioned got them to make it and I was the one that got all the footage with Charlie and all the rest of it and then all the wedding footage and all the old stuff that they wanted to use so I watched the program and it comes on I'm talking to Ira again absolutely lovely lady she's one of the funniest ladies of every match she's got a heart of gold she's an absolute darling so we're talking for an hour enough really lovely conversation whatever you know when he's talking to someone you just start fucking gibbering away you don't even know the cameras on and blah blah blah and you just say like a fleeting comment so I said to her I said you know I said about him being locked in a cage and do do do do I said so what would you do then if Charlie come home and she goes well what on there is I'd probably lock him in a fucking cage in the bottom of the garden anyway or whatever she said a comment like that and to me and Paula it was hilarious when it was on the program on channel 4 Charlie rang me up the minute she said it it went fucking out have you heard my own fucking ma myra she's a legend she's I've just fucking laughed my head off for 10 minutes she's so fucking funny and I was like yes she is really funny because I know she's funny Paula knows she's funny you know she's funny but these fucking 7 million people watching this and that could have come across as his mum being absolutely fucking psychotic not wanting him home and if you ever come home she'd lock him in a cage which was completely the opposite of how it was meant to you know how it was said so that was in the first episode so the document so the document is going on the first episode is going on I'm thinking yeah this is quite good you know you know Charlie's getting his you know he's saying what he's saying then they put the bit in about the tomato sauce stabbing someone without them like fucking hell we were sat there having so many conversations about remorse about regret about his victims about what he's done about the brutality that he'd got about how they'd been treated by the system we had all this fucking footage which was absolutely amazing I've got 14 hours of it just me and Charlie talking and it's amazing and then as the programme started going I was looking at some of the footage that they were using and I was thinking they're not telling any of the funny stories they're not showing Charlie's true person I know they've got to be balanced where they've got to good and bad so good and bad and we're totally impartial put a couple of bad bits in but fucking hell don't have it all bad there was loads of really good bits in there funny bits me and him having a laugh with each other and blah blah blah which was really good but then they started picking some really bad bits out and I was like I don't fucking like the look of this the end of the first episode I thought it was really good I thought it was really well put together you know it mentioned Charlie's past it mentioned his aspirations for the future and everything else you know even though it could have been a lot more positive it was what it was and like I said to Charlie at the start I've got no control over the edit so he rang me at the end of the first episode and he just went he went son I went dad I thought oh fucking hell there we go and he just turned around to me and he went that was the fucking best programme I have ever seen in my life I can't fucking believe it and he's going on about I at Rary he's going about things that we said laughing and joking he was fucking absolutely buzzing his tits off he loved it so I was really pleased you know secret filming Charles Bronson never been filmed in 48 years Charlie's chance to have his word to the fucking world tell everyone what's been going on that was what he knew the opportunity was and that is what we did second episode second episode comes on so it's watching the second episode so I'm watching the second episode and I'm thinking you know you know I want to put that in you know I want to put that in why have you not put this bit in here why have you not put that bit in there and and at the end of the documentary we're in the kitchen with channel 4 talking for an hour the camera just sat on a tripod so we're just talking away fucking having a chat and all the rest of it blah blah blah Maz is in the kitchen cooking and all this Maz gets on very well with Charlie talk to each other on the phone all the time about cottage pie cooking he rings her up and fucking tells her what ingredients are put in castles and all sorts to get on like an house on fire my wife is lovely she never say a bad word about anyone she's worked at the hospital for 27 years in the A&E she's an absolute darling he will never meet a more caring person and she loved Charlie to bits bearing in mind my wife even thought that Charlie was my son that is how undercover I was my fucking son didn't even know nobody knew absolutely nobody knew and from Charlie's point of view nobody knew in his family Charlie and me we'd agreed what we were gonna do and that was it and it was both of us that did it not just me and it wasn't just Charlie it was both of us I think that's the main thing for people to think cos you're an undercover papyrat say that people need to know that both he's were involved it was both scambies can make a crust and he's were both laughing about it and creating things it's not just you going undercover fooling Charlie old man in prison pulling a wheel over his eyes and then it's just a case that you set off to the sunset let both he's were involved and I think that's important to touch on that right do you know what this is one thing that pisses me off how were we not both involved in it fucking Charlie on the telly on the videos like son all right son yet listen do you mind me all fucking mother I matter of the way video club she was fucking mental and all the letters that I've got and everything since we started doing it there's always been son and I've always written back like dad it's always been that way we were both completely aware of what we were doing 100% we had a fucking great laugh and you know what was really good I fucking loved it the fact that every time I went to see Charlie or spoke to him on the phone he had somewhere to piss himself about something to fucking laugh about and something to say the prison service fuck you this fucking guy's coming here a journalist that you wouldn't allow in and we fucking rigged it so that he can come in he's filmed me he's fucking done all my legal shit he's got me a new legal team he's taken on the fucking ministry of justice and won against Dominic Robb and got an open fucking parole area for me fuck you lot we were laughing his bollocks off how bad were these beatings in prison oh his beatings were terrible was it antagonised by Charlie though or was it just beatings out of nothing right can we go to this we'll go back to the end of the documentary that's very important right I said right you know when you see um you see the Bronson film yeah this is what really really upsets me because me and Charlie are very very close I mean we've had a massive fucking fall out now and we've probably never even speak again and if that's the case that's the case it is what it is um I've had loads of conversations with Charlie and I've seen the film Bronson now people watch the film Bronson and they go it's fucking brilliant fucking waterfall what a fucking legend Charlie Bronson it's water fucking like it's fucking brilliant hard as fuck fucking brilliant right I've actually spoken to the man like I'm sat here with you now I've sat with him for fucking for five and a half years having visits with him talking together with chocolate sandwiches coffee the fucking lot I've spoke to him nearly every day on the phone for five years give or take a couple of days seriously nearly every single day and I don't think the film did him any good whatsoever because what happened was Charlie loves being on the telly he loves being in the papers he loves the limelight he fucking loves it there's no arguments about that I've told him and he fucking agrees with it he loves it and he's in the happens he brings me get me in the fucking papers get me in the paper why am I not in the paper this week get me in the fucking telly all just constant right so you've put what people don't realise is he's locked in a concrete box right the size of the average toilet 23 hours a day he's got fuck all to do but he's rehabilitated himself he does his artwork people say he fucking sits there he doesn't pay any bills he doesn't work he's never worked all his life he's got a dead easy life he's dead since that and the other right you try sitting in a cell for 23 hours yeah every single day and every day he creates a masterpiece a piece of art an A3 piece of art might take him two or three days he sits there with all the detail and all the pens and everything and all fucking takes him ages and every bit of art that he does is a masterpiece he doesn't just get a bit of paper and fucking scribble a picture on it it's his life he gets drawn into his art and that is part of him being put into a bit of paper now to me that is more than a full-time job there's loads of people that would have that talent that would not have the determination and the drive that he's got to do his artwork so he's not a lazy fucker that just sits in his cell doing anything he fucking creates stuff he could do the same as all the other prisoners do fucking shout out the window and fucking talk shit all day and sit there fucking watching telly and all that it doesn't he's very constructive and that's how he's rehabilitated himself so going back to the brutality and the stuff the conversation that we've had the film makes it look like the prison guards open the door and Charlie just jumps out and knocks fuck out of all of them we've all seen the film Bronson that's what it comes across as it's not like that at all it's not like that at all what used to happen was he'd have a row with his screw somewhat had happened he'd fucking have a row with one of them or whatever a couple of them would grab him he'd fucking clock one or whatever that'd be it he'd go back to his fucking cell he'd get locked up and then about one o'clock in the morning two o'clock in the morning the door of fucking boot opened there'd be 12 of them with helmets on truncheons everything and they would go in and they would batter the living fuck out of him absolutely fucking batter him I'm talking batter him senseless they fucking wrap him up and put him in a in a body bag you know like it with all straps around it and stand him in a box and he'd be left there for three days in a fucking box standing upright covered in blood and broken bones and all sorts right when he wasn't in his box they'd pull him out his box he'd be in a fucking big straight jockey like this and wipe they'd go in they'd just throw his food on the floor they wouldn't even leave it on the fucking plate they'd just go in and tip it on the floor he had to eat his food off the floor like a fucking dog lick it off the floor then they'd go in and kick the shit out of him again and they'd keep kicking the shit out of him and in them days it was all ex military people so they were all ar bastards fucking stoats steel toecaps and all the rest of it they used to go in and kick the living shit out of him all the fucking time now what had happened is if I kick the shit out of you now right you'd be like fucking a lot of hurt but if I kick the shit out of you every day for two weeks after two weeks you'd be like oh fucking no is that all you've got because your body would become used to it and that's what happened with Charlie he's he got used to being battered that much that he just got immune to it and then he started thinking to himself I'm not fucking letting these get away with that so every time that door opened it was expecting 12 people to come and be riot shields and kick the shit out of him so every time the door opened he was fucking there ready and he'd fucking launch it however it was come out swinging and all the rest of it but that was them that made him do that I mean don't get me wrong I'm not saying that he's not been violent and he's not really nasty bastard he's fucking us and I'll be the first to tell you that some of the stories that he's told me are things that have gone on I've said that I will never repeat and I will never repeat them ever again they're between me and him there's a lot of personal stuff that we'll never talk about to anybody the fighting and the brutality and all the rest of it was absolutely shocking and it was done to such an extent that it's actually given him fucking post-traumatic stress right he's traumatised he would never admit it but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't wake up in the middle of the night having fucking nightmares and all sorts of stuff he slept on concrete floors with no bed no fucking toilet seat nothing for like two years it's just you know they fed him under a cat flap under the door a little flap with his food didn't see anybody didn't integrate with anyone anyway go back to the documentary so when the documentary was on Channel 4 it was on prime time 9pm on the Monday 9pm on the Tuesday so the documentary said all these you know amazing things said all these fucking not so amazing things that's how they do documentaries you know you know what you know what you're in the media the same as me the media just fucking using to their own advantage it's like you you're using me now to come on your show to get viewers I'm using you to come on your show so I can tell the story of me and Charlie how we made up being father and son to manipulate the media and manipulate the prison service for a fucking load of form and to make it for you and have a right good fucking laugh that's how the media work people don't realise how it works so anyway the Channel 4 thing it's all going on watching it and watching it I've not seen fuck all they won't let me see the edit won't let me get involved in the edit so I'm watching a programme and towards the end of it I started thinking all right it's coming towards you and yeah yeah yeah oh that's good Charlie said that it's good he said this the one thing I wanted to make sure that I got in there was Phil Danielson and I wanted Phil Danielson to go into the programme and I wanted to say 23 years it's enough even I think Charlie should be let out and that was the golden nugget for us in the programme that was the golden nugget right nobody in this country could have ever got Phil Danielson to go on the programme and say that like with that I'm not talking about threatening or anything about to go on the programme of his own free will and talk about the crime and face up to what happened and explain from his side and the fact that he went on and said that he thinks that he wouldn't have an argument of trust I thought that was absolutely fantastic nothing like that had ever happened for Charlie for like 30 years nothing so that was a fucking I was in the front room I was like fucking yes a fucking brilliant and all this Charlie rings me in the adverts fucking hell I can't fucking believe he said fucking amazing right so basically it comes to the end of the documentary part four and what's happened is I'm basically stood there in the kitchen with Maz and we're having a fucking chat we're talking away and blah blah blah the camera's on a tripod you can see the camera's not even fucking because you know it's there and you know the like blah blah blah the filming for ages you know what it's like meaning you have done loads of TV stuff and um and then they go right okay yeah right sound brilliant fucking great we'll leave it there so we did that and then the camera was still rolling yeah so then basically they've just you know this Kelly the director just got into this conversation so we're just having a general chat and um and she said so what do you think like what do you think that might do would you be worried when he comes out and Maz said something along the lines of well yeah of course I'd be worried he's been locked up for 49 years never met him before of course I'd be worried and any normal person would be worried it's it's not a bad thing to say beforehand she never said anything like that she said of course I'm not worried I speak to Charlie all the time he's a lovely guy I'd welcome him to our house anytime he could move in tomorrow there won't be a problem at all blah blah blah and all this talking to me and then she goes so what about you Georgian like like are you manipulating Charlie is Charlie manipulating you are you worried about him being violent so I've just fucking turned around Dad had talked not even knowing that the camera is still going because very cleverly she's walked across the kitchen and it's fucking stood somewhere totally away from the camera the camera guys fucking two camera guys have walked off right so I've just turned around I said listen I said I don't know whether I'm fucking manipulating him whether he's manipulating me I don't know what the fuck's going on I said if they let him out tomorrow he could come out with a fucking bread knife kick the shit out of me and fucking stab me with a bread knife he could do that tomorrow how the fuck do I know I've never met him outside of prison I said but anybody could walk down the fucking road I could be in the chippy tomorrow night and someone could come in and kick the shit out of me and stab me with a fucking bread knife and I actually said to her I said but do you know what Charlie wouldn't fucking do that do you know why because he's rehabilitated himself with his art I said the only thing you'd fucking stab me with a beer crayon and that's what I said I said exactly word for word what I said and then when the program came on and they started fucking playing that bit I thought oh right they're going to end with this and then he went she goes will you be worried about him she said something to Maz and you know Maz said something that came across completely the fucking wrong way because he'd added it completely wrong they didn't add it the 20 minutes before of a fucking blown smoke up Charlie's ars and saying what an amazing bloke he was and how lovely he was then it comes to my bit and it just goes she said would you be worried if it comes out and I said well I don't know yeah fucking he could manipulate me he could come out fucking kick the shit out of me stab me with a bread knife how do I know and then they cut it and it just went to the fucking credits and the credits started coming up and I was like what the fuck and that is how they ended it and I'm so fucking disgusted and I found out now and I know the reason why they did it I know the reason why they did it Charlie's parole hearing was the week after they wanted to get the program out before the parole hearing right mean you know people in the media know lawyers know parole boards don't go and look at newspaper articles about prisoners you don't look at newspaper articles you don't watch tv programs they're not allowed to base any decisions about him being let out on anything to do with any media or tv or news paper they're not allowed by law they cannot that can't go into their equation so next thing me fucking phone starts going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep beep, beep, beep, beep fucking going on like this and I'm like people are messing with me going a chyfnwys i ddweud mewn ddechrau ond, dyfodd yn ddweud yn ddweud a yna'n ddweud, rydyn ni'n gofyn i blaenau a blaenau. Next thing, I'll get a text message of Richard Booth, a'r aeth o Charlie's. Charlie said, the documentary was absolutely brilliant, absolutely fantastic, but you fucked it up right at the end. You're a complete fucking conch, you're a disgrace. Wherever fucking speak to you again, go and fuck yourself and fucking, he hopes you get ars cancer and you run out of morphine. That's exactly what he said to me. gyda'r ffond. That's one thing. I said I ain't standing up in the Royal Courts of Justice and fucking saying that you're my dad. There is absolutely no chance because that is crossing the fucking line, you're talking perjury, perverting courts of justice and all sorts of shit. I ain't doing it. I said I'll write a really nice letter to the court as your friend and blah blah blah and telling them how wonderful you are on all the rest of it. Which I meant from the bottom of my heart, and I did send him a fucking amazing letter. ac that was it, so he went to the parole erin and that was it, and then Channel 4 were really really fucking pissed off cos they wanted me to give evidence at the parole and that's why they wanted to end the film and because I said to him right at the last minute I'm not fucking giving evidence at the parole and that's who it was he ended? we had a bit of a fucking and that side of the end of the documentary made me look like a complete twat and in turn, like Charlie thinks that he made him look like a twat the thing is with Charlie I can completely understand where he's coming from. 100%. But what he doesn't understand is, you've got all these fucking idiots all around the country. You've got 80% of a message in me saying that was absolutely fucking brilliant. Charles Brons has been on the telly given his own voice and all this has come out and all the publicity you've got. Dave Courtney, right? He did a thing, he did a little video. Did a video on his Facebook or whatever. And obviously Charlie had wrote him or spoke to him on the phone. And Dave Courtney went on and he said, look, this fucking documentary Bambi's done. I think he said a few spiteful things on there. He said a few things that he shouldn't have said and blah blah blah. I think it was all geared around Bambi himself and blah blah blah and this sat on the other. And he said all these things on this Facebook thing. So I watched it and I thought to myself, do you know what? Every single fucking word he said on that thing is completely true. I completely accept everything that Dave Courtney said on that video. Completely and utterly. Because what he was saying was from Charlie's point of view and his own point of view. I don't accept that. And do you know what? I've got a lot of respect for that man. I didn't know him before and I've got a lot of respect for him. After seeing that. So the next day Charlie's got a friend of his Richard Booth. I've had some really good dealings with Richard Booth. He's an absolutely lovely guy. And he's got Charlie's interest, best interest at heart. And I completely appreciate that. Charlie rings him up. Fucking tell George he's fucking this. Fucking what have I said? Richard Booth fucking messaging me telling me what Charlie said. Because they've cut my phone off because I've been filming him in prison. So he can't ring me now. They've cut the visits off to fucking George Bambi the reporter. Fuck off. You're not doing it anymore. You bastard. Have you got any fucking done that? They've completely cut me off. I'm no good to Charlie now because he can't ring me. He can't fucking phone me. I can't visit him. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway. His message Richard said to fucking tell him he's a twat. Tell him you're fucking this. Blah, blah, blah. Richard's got caught in the middle. You know, I messaged Richard back. Fuck off. Fucking whatever and all this. Which maybe I shouldn't. Because he's a lovely, lovely guy. He's genuinely got Charlie's interest at heart. And I completely appreciate that. So he went to the papers. And Charlie said right fucking Richard go to the papers. Tell him I don't want him on my fucking parole area. He's not fucking coming to the parole area. When the I courts are just this fucking blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the next day Dave Courtney rang me. And I've had a few conversations with Dave Courtney. Don't know him that well. But when you see him on the telly or you see people, you know, you think to yourself fucking hell, he's a bit fucking, you know, not a sort of bloke you go down the pub and have a beer with or whatever. You'd be a bit fucking intimidated by him. But from speaking to him on the phone he's actually such a genuinely nice fucking really good guy. And I'm not just saying that. He really is. He rang me up. Hi George. Cos I rang him. I said look Dave, I want to go to the Royal Courts of Justice. I said, but after this program, there's going to be fucking hundreds of knobbads outside. I've been having all these messages saying people are going to fucking kill me, shoot me, stab me, fucking do whatever. If I turn up at the court, I'm a fucking dead man and all this. I said, will you come down to the court with me? And you know, just come in with me. And Dave said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, have you got me on the approval list or whatever? I'll come in with you. I said, right. So I said, I don't know whether he spoke to Charlie by this time or not. So I sent Dave the form over. He's filled it in. I spoke to the parole one and said, look, I want to bring someone with me, blah, blah, blah. Going to the hearing and all this. So that was it. So they said, yeah, we've already organised you two spaces cos he went months ago. We've already saved two for you. I said, right. So anyway, Dave rang me the next day. And he said, Dave, he said, he said, George, he said, listen, it's Dave. I'm just giving you a ring. I've had Charlie on the phone. And like you said, he's fucking for you when he's really pissed off, fucking blah, blah, blah, and all this. And he don't want you going to the parole area and all this fucking blah, blah, blah, whatever. So I said to Dave, I said, right. I said, okay, listen. I said, that's fair enough. I said, fine. I appreciate you ringing me up. Blah, blah, blah. And yeah, I said, I appreciate you ringing me. You know, fair play, blah, blah, blah. And then we got talking. And I just turned around to Dave. I said, listen, Dave. I said, let me tell you something. I said, you're not fucking stupid. I said, I heard what you said on that thing that you did yesterday. And I said, fair play to you. You didn't say anything that wasn't justified. Right. I said, but you do know I'm not fucking Charlie's son, don't you? And he went, I said, yeah. I said, well, I haven't told anybody. I said, believe it or not, you're actually the first person that I've told. In fact, no, he's the second person I've told. I said, I'm not Charlie's son. I said, me and Charlie have been fucking at it for five, six years, taking the piss out of the prison service, doing all these fucking stories, and making a few grid and having a fucking laugh, and we've been splitting all the fucking money down the middle. You know, I get my off. He gets his off fucking whatever. That's nothing to do with me, blah, blah, blah. I said, but he's not my dad. I said, I've been working with Charlie for years to try and get him out of fucking prison. I've worked my fucking ass off. And you know what he's sewn round to me and said? He said, you know what, George? He said, I really appreciate you telling me that. And he actually said to me, it won't go any further. And fair play, he's not said a single word to anybody. But he was really, really understanding on the phone. And I thought, he didn't need to be like that. He could have just round me up and go, right, fucking turn up at that court tomorrow you twat and you're getting fucking knee-cut. You could have said whatever you wanted. But he didn't. He was dead fucking genuine. He was looking after Charlie's interests. And he was really nice and respectful to me. So it was all cool. So anyway, me being fucking me, I'm sat in the O cell. And I'm sat at home. I think this was on the Saturday. And their name and owns rang me. And a few other people were like, George, can you come in? Come on the fucking show and all this. It's like Charlie fucking at this stage, hated me, never wanted anything to fucking do me ever again. Blah, blah, blah. So I thought to myself, do you know what? All these fucking messages saying I get ars cancer and fucking there's no morphine and all this and he's gonna fucking ruin me life and fuck this and fuck that and whatever. I thought, fuck off. We've had this conversation fucking 10 times in the past where you fall out with me every fucking two months and then we're best mates again. But I thought to myself, it's not the time for all this fucking about. It's parole is on Monday. This was on the Saturday and I was fuming. So I fucking called on me contacting. So I ended up going on the fucking good morning Britain, whatever it was, the fucking Aimee Nome show, Vanessa Felt, and all these shows. And I fucking turned up and I was gonna go on GMB news, GB News with Aimee Nomes. And I was gonna say, it's not my fucking dad. It's a complete and utter twat. I can't fucking stand him. He fucking takes the piss. He treats me like a fucking twat and he can fuck off. That's what I wanted to say. But then I thought to myself, no, you can't do that. He's a fucking top guy. He's been a really good fucking friend. Is that a massive impact on my life? And I know that I've had a massive impact on his life because I've worked with him over the last six years or so. And his fucking behaviour and his thought process and everything has completely changed. I've worked with him. He said to me on the phone so many times, nobody has done in six years. What you've done for me in six years, nobody on this planet has ever done for me in my whole life. And he always says that. And I know he's sat in his cell and he might think I'm a fucking twat and he doesn't want to talk to me and blah, blah, blah, whatever. But I know that me and him have a fucking very special relationship, a very close relationship, a relationship that he will never forget and I will never forget. And hopefully I have been of a lot of benefit to his life and I'll take all the positives that I've learned out of his life. So anyway, I've sat there. So I thought fuck it. I've sat there, GMB news. I've fucking Christopher Biggan sat next to me in the green room here and fucking someone else sat there. And I'm due to go on. So I thought right. So I've got on. And I'm just like, hi George, it's fucking nice to see you again. And it's like, right, we're going live. Fucking 3, 2, 1, bump. Fucking camera straight on. I'm like, yes. You know, Charlie's been really good. He's never hurt anybody. He's never hurt one more time. He should be let out. He's fucking, what they've done to be the present service is absolutely terrible. It's awful. You know, saying all these really lovely things about him. Fucking amazing things about him. So I've come off that. Cars picked me up. I've done these other shows. I've done these other ones. I fucking did 17 shows that day. Radio, TV, everywhere. I got picked up at half six in the morning to do amen. And I finished doing the fucking BBC news at 10 o'clock at night or somewhere. And I was fucked when I got back to the hotel. I turned my phone on. I got fucking loads more interviews than they wanted doing. The next morning, Tuesday, I got up, fucking did a load of interviews. And I sat there. I can't remember what I was doing. I think I was doing like the fucking Vanessa Felt show or something like that. It was some breakfast news. I can't remember what I did that many. So I sat there and I thought, is parole hearing starts at 10 o'clock? And I thought to myself, I was just sat there at this fucking interview at 9 o'clock and I thought, I called the producer over and I said, I'm not going on. And he went, why, why, why, what's up? And I went, I'm going to Charlie's Parole. And he went, what? And I went, I'm going to Charlie's Parole. I'm really sorry. I'll come back and do it for you at lunchtime or whatever. And he went, he got me a car. So he got me a car, took me down to the Royal Courts of Justice and I said, don't fucking drop me off outside. Drop me off under a jar down the road because I want to walk past all these fucking dickheads. And if anyone's going to fucking stab me or shoot me or punch me in the fucking mouth, they can fucking do it because I'm not scared of anybody. But what I will not do is spend six years of my life trying my best to fucking get Charlie out of prison. Yeah. Get this brand new legal team for him that we've been working tirelessly for three years and get him an open parole hearing at the Royal Courts of Justice and for me not to turn up. So I thought, do you know what? I'm going to fuck what Charlie says. I'm not being disrespectful to him but I'm going and there's no one going to fucking stop me. So I pulled up, got out the fucking car, walked down the fucking road, walked straight into the Royal Courts of Justice, went and sat at the back of the court. I've walked in, there's a couple of fucking enemies in there with fucking tattoos like, fuck what the fuck do you know what it is? Fucking hell. Fucking hell. And you can hear him and did he not fucking read the paper? Fucking Charlie told him not to come here. I've just sat there and I thought to myself, what the fuck are you doing? How do you know Charlie? What have you written a couple of fucking letters or something? I've applied for a seat to come and see him. How the fuck do you know him? Do you know what I mean? You don't know what the fuck he's talking about. So I thought, I ain't, I mean anybody telling me I'm not coming here. So I went in and I walked straight into the fucking bed land and just sat there like that. Then I waited for it to all start and I could fucking see loads of people looking at me and I thought, fucking interesting. They don't know the fucking story with me and Charlie. They don't know how much work I fucking done to get him here. Everyone in this room is here because of fucking me. I was the one that got this public parole for him. So then the parole started and started talking and then they said something about the parole board. I said, oh yeah, just so everyone knows there was a TV documentary which was made last Monday and Tuesday, Prime Time Channel 4, 9pm. Just to let everybody know, none of the parole board have seen that documentary whatsoever. We have not seen it and the law were not allowed to look at it and we will not be judging anything to do with this hearing on that programme. So Charlie turned round. First thing he said was, yeah, I fucking believe that when I see it or whatever. And then I sat there thinking, oh fucking, I'll calm down Charlie. Just fucking, just be nice for a few hours and fucking chill out. And then Dean wanted to get up for a piss. Fucking I'll cut you just fucking. And I thought, do you know what? I can't sit here and watch her. So I just wanted to jump in the tally and fucking sit next to him talking and say, listen, just fucking calm down and relax. Take it nice and easy and take some deep breaths. And then I thought to myself, all these parole hearings that he's had in the past, he's walked in a room, he's had three fucking idiots talking shit for two and a half hours and then they tell him to fuck off back to his room when he's not getting out. So in my head I'm watching Charlie and Charlie's sitting there automatically thinking, oh these fucking aren't going to let me out anyway. Fucking whatever. But the thing was, so in the end I thought, do you know what? I don't want to fucking start being part of the media circus with the parole and fucking being in the room with all the fucking sky news and all that shit there. So I fucking slipped out before any of the reporters and everything saw me. Martin Brunt saw me from the sky news and gave me a wave. And as soon as he waved I was like, five minutes later I'd fucking gone. So I didn't want to start answering fucking questions about the shit with the documentary and all that bollocks. So I fucked off. So I've gone and I've got home to the hotel and I've started doing all these other interviews, really positive interviews and all the rest of it. And then I've started reading the stuff online from the thing saying about, he's spelt these orange and he says, don't worry gov, I've not fucking pissed myself. And he's like, what fucking betting? Who doesn't like a bet? Who doesn't like this? And I thought, oh fuck you know. But anyway, to finish off, one of the reasons I wanted to come on here, and I really appreciate you giving me a platform to come and say this. The father and son thing, this started off as a job. Because I got so friendly with Charlie and we had such a good fucking laugh, it turned into a fucking brilliant friendship and we've had a fucking scream. We've had a real laugh. But I saw a newspaper article the other day and it was Charlie's brother Mark. And basically it said on there that Mark wouldn't back Charlie's release while Charlie was still going on with the fake son story. Now, in the past Mark's family, Charlie's family they've often been 5,000 quid to take a DNA test and I've always just said just not had any communication with them, not spoke to them, not had anything to do with them. I've told Charlie, Charlie said, don't fucking speak to any of them, leave that to me, I'll fucking deal with that, it's nothing to do with you, don't speak to Ira, don't speak to Mark, don't speak to Michael, don't speak to anyone, I'll fucking sort it. So I'm like right. Then I saw that thing and I thought, you know what? This thing that we've done, my wife and my son won't really be bothered because I've never had a dad. So it's not like they missed a fucking granddad or whatever. So I can deal with all that and I do some pretty fucking mental things of your work anyway. Spend me a whole life on the paparazzi TV show that I had fucking making stories up and it's what I do for a living. You know, the media fucking make stories up, I make stories up, celebrities make stories up, everyone fucking make stories up and one of them was as good as me and Charlie, we had a fucking brilliant laugh doing it. But then I started thinking to myself, there needs to be an end. There's always this stuff, when you're doing a cover job there's got to be a start, there's got to be a middle, there's got to be an end. There was never an end to this. Just kept going on and on and on. Next thing, I'm in the fucking, I'm at Downing Street and in a fucking petition over with 30,000 signatures, I'm fucking shouting on a loud hangar outside the ministry just thinking, what the fuck am I doing? This is not what I do, I'm a PR agent. So, I said to myself the other day, this has got to come to an end. I need to get on with my life because for the last fucking five years, every time I'm walking to a pub or a walk down the road, everyone goes, how's your dad? When's your dad getting out? And I'm like, and then after a bit, I started fucking thinking to be, everyone's saying it, every fucking day, start slotting in your brain that it is your fucking dad, it's not my dad, do you know what I mean? And then you read all this shit online, fucking George Bambi's a fraud, he's made loads of money out of Charlie, he's just using him to make money. I fucking had plenty of money before about Charlie, I fucking had plenty of money after about Charlie. I've got 40 odd full-time staff, I've got 12 different businesses, I've always been successful, I was the number one paparazzi in the country, nearly 400 fucking front pages. I've made enough money by the time I was 40 to retire for the rest of my life, didn't need to fucking work. But it needs to come to an end, and it needed somebody to turn round and say, right, Charlie, we've had a fucking great run together, we've had a really good laugh, he doesn't want to talk to me, he thinks I'm a fucking twat, wants me to have a ass cancer, he's going to ruin me fucking out, do fucking this out and the other whatever, I'm not fucking interested. If he wants to contact me in a few months or write me a letter or whatever, reply, I might not. I won't be getting in contact with him, I'll be getting on with my life, George Bambi, the fucking PR marketing man. But I wish him all the best in the world, I hope he fucking gets out, we're recording this a week before and I've actually said to you or I've asked you not to actually publish this podcast until the result of the parole hearing comes out, because the last thing I want is this parole thing to go tits up and he doesn't get out and then we've released this and everyone starts fucking messaging we're going, well have you ever done that fucking podcast and said it wasn't your daddy, the fucking that's the shit that you have to put up with. So I mean releasing it after would be really good. How do you think Charlie will be if you're coming out now? I don't know, I mean, you know we've had this bond as a father and son for so many years and we've had such a close relationship I think it's been I think it would be difficult for him because he'll fucking miss talking to me he'll miss the things that we did and I'll tell you something, the one thing that he will miss is the publicity because he fucking loves the publicity and I'm the best in the country at it and now that I've gone he won't be in the papers all the time after his parole result comes out and this comes out that'll be it there'll be no more fucking big stories in the Huddersfield examiner or whatever his little crowley is doing said he's done a bit of artwork for a charity that's all it'll be I think that's the least I've ever spoken on a podcast is it? you bottled all that up for seven years but like you say it was a father shit I'm actually upset I've been fucking drained for the last six years every bit of energy is fucking drained out of me it's just been fucking nuts even dealing with the whole polar thing cos I love polar to bits she wanted to be a big fucking superstar she thought she was going to marry Charles Bronson and be like then she fucking rang me up after the wedding right Bambi, get me on I'm a celebrity get me out of here, I spoke to Charlie he said I can go on it, I'm like Paula, it doesn't fucking work like that you're not a celebrity I fucking just married Charles Bronson cause of a celebrity I'm like fucking hell Miaid was all over the fucking place I'm dealing with people that are just delusional Paula was lovely and I loved her to bits I got on fucking great with her we had some brilliant laughs when she died her mum Hazel and her dad the loveliest people you've ever met when she died they didn't even have enough money for the funeral you've got all these people online all the so called fucking friends having a whip round together for her to pay for the funeral they raised fucking peanuts nobody put anything into it Paula said to me when she died she wanted a horse drawn carriage all white horses and pink ribbons and I went to Hazel Paula's mum and I gave her a thousand quid and paid for the horse drawn carriage right they raised all the money to do the whatever and that was it I didn't even go to the funeral and I was heart broken because I wanted to go I drove to the funeral down to Stoke and I parked about 300 yards down the road with my binoculars and I just wanted to see her taking in and I was fucking heart broken cause she was my friend loved her to bits but she had mental health issues she used to ring me every day saying George I'm going to fucking die tomorrow I'm not going to be here anymore I'm going to fucking kill myself I'm going to do this and it was heart breaking I'm not only heart breaking it was just fucking worrying because Paula was a very very vulnerable person she was very vulnerable and that's what the fucking media does to people she wanted to be fat you know how the media was I know the media are exciting do you know what it just fucking overtook my life and I became so pallid with Charlie it turned from being a job to fucking being my mate Do you think you ever get out though? I hope he does I really do you know what genuinely I've got a genuine fucking I've got a genuine place in my art for Charlie and I will always fucking have it and all these dickheads online that say fucking this that and the other and I'm a fraud and rip Charlie off and on they ain't got a fucking clue what they're talking about that's why on all these videos and shit Charlie's always said you're my son tell them to mind their own fucking business it's not their business it's nothing to do with them basically what he's saying is me and fucking George are doing something don't get involved and fuck off and leave us to it we're having a fucking we're having it off and we're having a bit of fucking fun now fuck off and then all these knobheads thinking they're all being fucking very clever he's a fraud it's not his son he didn't fucking on my bio on my Facebook page in Twitter he says George Bambi paparazzi invested to give journalists fucking blah blah blah he doesn't take a genius to work out from day one I wasn't his fucking son it was obvious every fucking knew but do you know what also was a real head fuck about it all all my fucking close friends all my close friends and people that I know even staff from the kids home from years ago being and all the rest of it messaging me I'm so fucking glad you met your dad I'm glad you found you that is fucking amazing ignore all the haters ignore all the people saying this and blah blah blah and I'm thinking to myself well I shouldn't really ignore all them people because all them people are actually fucking right I'm not his son but I'm not a fucking fraud or a con man or whatever they're fucking gonna say all the shit they come out with but it was so hard to all them genuine people that were so lovely and so nice of me so fucking supportive when's your dad getting out and going on things when people fucking slag me off saying George Bam is a lovely person he's fucking great you know that's his son fucking you get on with your life it's just all over the fucking place and I said to me this is one there I said this has got a fucking stop now Charlie wanted to be exposed on the tally on video he wanted to the fucking world to see him he wanted to get his word out there we did the documentary the documentary was massive it was bits in it that were bad there were bits in it that were fucking brilliant Charlie only looks at the bad bits but I don't mind I'm sorry that it ended like that and it shouldn't have ended like that it was fucking awful and Channel 4 should be fucking ashamed of themselves but it did, there's nothing I can do about it can't turn the clocks back I do love him to bits and I wish him all the best for the future and I really really do hope that he gets out do I think he'll be dangerous when he comes out? I've spent more time with him and anybody else, do I think he'll be dangerous? I don't think he'll be dangerous I think he just wants to come out and fucking sit in a little shed somewhere and do his artwork and not fucking have any myther off anybody How do you feel with Nescus? How do you think the reaction will be? Well I don't give a fuck how the reaction is at the end of the day me and Charlie have fucking done this and we've done what we've done and you know we're fucking there has to come a point where someone has to say right enough's enough now you know, my wife thinks her father-in-law is Charles Bronson my fucking son thinks Charles Bronson is his grandad you know, Charlie's brother Mark oh yeah, going back to Charlie's brother Mark saying about the fake son bit this is another thing the paper, I know all the fucking I know the media, I know what they did I know what have happened the papers rang him up and said what's thinking about Charlie's chances of getting parole I nearly said to him, I don't want to talk to you no comment, not interested and then they just kept pushing him and pushing him and he said I'm not interested and in a sense maybe said something like while he's got that fucking fake son on board I'm not interested, next thing the headline in the mirror Bronson's brother refuses to back parole over fake son which is really fucking unfair to Mark it's really unfair to his mum Ira and all the rest of it but as I said when this whole process started Charlie made his decision I made my decision I stuck by it with my family he was going to stick by it with his family I've never spoke to Ira or Mark or anyone else but now I've got the opportunity here and you look back they fucking know I wasn't his son they're not stupid but you know, what can I do on behalf of like me self all I can do is apologise but it is what it is because Charlie has loved that people do adore him they fucking will I tell you something what's the funniest memory you've got of Charlie you've got every reason to adore him he's fucking hilarious what's the funniest memory you've got of him oh I used to fucking mind him up all the time we used to just fucking piss ourselves he'd ring me up we go right get the fucking TV channel out so I'll get the sky right what's on it 9 o'clock beat me C1 I'll be like right fucking mastermind beat me C2 8 o'clock right channel 4 9 o'clock I'm like oh he's a fucking film one tonight and he'd be like oh yeah what is it and I'm like fucking you're not going to believe it and he'd be like what what and I go fucking Bronson's on at 9 o'clock beat Tom Hardy and he'd go you're fucking joking and then I'd go yeah I am joking you fucking idiot it's fucking news at 10 o'clock and he'd go oh you twat and then we'd just fucking wind each other up all the time but I mean we used to do fucking such a mad shit he'd fucking phone up and he'd like to pretend he's Bob Mortley like the cannibal from the fucking is that George I'm going to fucking eat you it's fucking Bob and he'd just go into one for 10 minutes and then other times he'd ring up he'd be fucking singing Elvis songs he'd be fucking doing all we just had such a fucking laugh we just got on so we used to sit there at the visits and we'd piss ourselves that much all the fucking screws that'd be sat round us they'd be laughing the bollocks off and when we'd come out the screws used to say to me they fucking fighting over your visits who does your visits cos it's such a fucking good laugh you gonna miss them miss what you've been involved in I'm not gonna miss what I've been involved in cos I've been involved in this business for fucking 30 odd years you know I'm retired you know if something else comes up with someone or whatever then I'll never say fucking never cos you know you get bored do you wanna do stuff but this is a bit more than that will I miss him I will miss him I will fucking miss him a lot hopefully he can resolve it though it's a shame if it's ended that way it never gets resolved cos if you've done everything you've set out to do and help him and make him on the side and try and help him he's parole it's clearly a good fight for him people's gonna have their assumptions listen your papa ask that when you're looking at both sides if everything you say is legit both he's were using each other of course we were I've fallen out you know we've fallen out so many times there was a situation oh you don't wanna send him out the rainbow caravan you know doing a picture with a caravan I said didn't you have a nice picture with caravans and flowers and all that shit I said this before he said right so anyway he sent me the picture so I sent the picture to the paper and I said look Charles Bronson has done this picture of a caravan right it's got flowers in it it's got the sea it's got water it's got fucking trees it's got lovely shrubs everywhere when has he ever done any artwork like this before his mentality is changing I'm getting through to him so he went oh that's fucking brilliant we'll run that in the papers and you know what they did they fucking put the caravan in the paper and then you know when they do them caricatures they do the fucking caricature of him leaning up against the caravan right his fucking head was about four times the size of a normal head legs crossed he had a fucking flag in his mouth he rang me up fucking hell he thought I fucking murdered him you fucking swat what the fuck in I fucking don't smoke my fucking head's four times the fuck don't fucking ring me again I'm gonna fucking get on your new twat and then fucking bots of phone down don't hear from him for a month and then he rings me back and he goes alright son and I'm like alright Dads and he goes right well listen you know like families we always fall out now and again I went yeah he goes right he said well let's put that big fat head on my right alright and then we're just fucking back to square one again how strong is he how strong is Charlie Bronson he's fucking strong as an ox absolutely fucking strong as an ox do you know what he's such a stubborn bastard now fucking told him this I'm not saying anything to you or anything to your viewers that I haven't said to his face he's a stubborn bastard he always has been you have to explain to him about things because he doesn't understand certain things and when you sit down and explain to him and then he goes oh fucking I can see why now it's like the thing with the parole me going in front of the parole board saying to me son I'm not going to stand in front of the royal court just to say to me son why would the fuck would I do that I said to him me and you are um our relationship on the channel 4 program they will see that if they see it and they'll see what our relationship's like because once your parole hearings finished on Friday they've got two weeks to give you a decision they're going to fucking watch a documentary are you telling me that them three part parole people aren't going to watch a documentary they're going to go home fucking that night and watch it they're not going to say they've watched it but they're going to watch it but I'll tell you what fair play to him he always sticks by his guns he got up there he didn't have any airs and graces he swore he was his normal self he fucking said it as it was and Charlie will never change these other things I've had so much contact with him more contact with fucking anyone over the years sometimes I think to myself does he actually want to get out I genuinely think does he actually want to get out and then when I think about it it would be fucking scary after 49 years coming out into this shit hole and I fucking told him loads of times you fucking better off where you are and the other thing is it's like if he did come out would he be able to adjust to the life to the situation to fucking mobile phones and iPads and this and that and the other and fucking Facebook and shit can you imagine having a Facebook account where do you go for the future Georgia boy? well I retired fucking years ago so I mean I just do my I do my PR stuff I'm actually after we leave here I'm on my way to Holland I'm on my way to Holland in about 3 hours and I'm going over there for 3 weeks with a really big writer from Netflix and I'm writing a 6 part series and 6 part series is gonna be all about from the very first day of Mac Charlie up to the present day um but it's not gonna have any of the fucking shouting that's a load of bollocks about him fucking threatening to stab me at the stuff it's gonna have all nice things in there and all the humour and the relationship and my relationship with Paula Paula's relationship with Charlie our relationship together with the media because like I said in the programme I manipulate the media Paula manipulates the media Charlie manipulates the media I mean what a team we were we were back and run at it Paula paid the fucking mortgage off do you know what I mean Charlie if he ever does come out he won't need a caravan don't worry about that he'll buy himself a nice little fucking cottage oh yeah going back to that there was a caravan we had a thing set up a GoFundMe page to get him a caravan so I set that up for the parole board to say when he comes out he's gonna live in a caravan in Devon obviously he can't show that he's earning any money that when he comes out he's got a caravan somewhere to live so we did the GoFundMe page we started it off I put two grand in it just to get it started and all these so-called fucking supporters or whatever all these like people that like fucking Charlie's amazing and fucking loving to bits none of them put their hands in the fucking pockets we raised about 3200 quid and that was it so when all this went to it's up with the documentary and he fucking saw his ass I immediately closed the just giving page down and I refunded everybody the money and I said to him right you're not fucking coming to Devon you're not running the fucking caravan they just fund me pages closed fucking that's it and everyone that put money in has had it back and do you know what really fucking brought a tear to me aye there were people that went on there that donated a pound and they were putting messages like this is my last pound Charlie but I'm sending it to you fucking brought a tear to your eye because there were so many genuine people that care about him do you know what I mean but there's also so many fucking dickheads out there that think that they fucking they think they own him what happens is the people out there I'll give you a quick example right I'll probably wrap it up I get so many people messaging me I want to write your dad a fucking letter he's not written back to me has anyone ever noticed that sometimes when you get a letter off Charlie he's got a stamp on it and he'll have an address on it and the address will all be scratched out and rubbed out and he'll write another address on it that's where someone will have sent him a stamp to dress envelope so that they can reply to him so if I'm Charles Bronson and you send me a letter saying can I have a piece of artwork please and you put an envelope with a stamp on it with your address on it for me to put a bit of my artwork and then break the envelope and send it back to you if you think that that's how Charlie works he fucking doesn't he doesn't sit there doing artwork for mop it's all fucking there he's never spoke to me for but if somebody wrote to him and said Charlie there's a book of 12 stamps there's a stamp to dress envelope for me I hope you're doing well blah blah blah and send him a really nice letter to ask him how he is and send him a couple of photographs then he will reply to them with that stamp to dress envelope because what people don't realise is they go he fucking doesn't reply I've wrote to him like 10 times and he doesn't reply I've asked him for artwork loads of times of course he's not going to fucking reply he only gets 50 quid a week send him 12 stamps in and send him some photographs and send him a nice little fucking letter and you might get a reply off him Georgia Boyd would you like to finish up on anything? No I just I wish Charlie all the best in the world I really fucking do from the bottom of my heart it's been an amazing journey we've both had such good fucking fun we've had such a good laugh we've worked really hard on the parole I don't think he'll get released I really don't I mean I've just been realistic I've been working with the legal team for years I do think that he should be decategorised or he should be progressed through the system I mean I fucking love it if he got released it would be amazing but you know I said to him a month ago something that no one has ever said to him I said to him listen you're not getting released the best you can possibly hope for is getting decatted or moved to an open prison because what I didn't want him to do was get his hopes up then they tell him he's not coming in and he thinks the system's against him and he's going to get some fucking eight years because I can remember the governor hostage I do think he should get out George listen if you're coming on today and telling me you're exclusive I appreciate it I wish he's all the best for the future and hopefully you and Charlie can patch things up you can move on and have a laugh and that's what it's all about and if anyone didn't say at the start of the programme Charles Bronson is not my dad he's my fucking mate