 I'm the CEO of Forrester Research based in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and we are a research company that does research all over the world on technology, and we also gather data on technology and consumers. And I'm very happy that the World Economic Forum has invited me to be your host this morning. Our topic is digital in Asia, and it is a very, very large topic. We could maybe go all morning on this topic, but we will try and address this in approximately one hour. I think you all know, we all understand that digital is becoming a critical element and component of every nation's economy and a critical component of the world economy. I'll make a statement which you may not agree with, but I don't believe any nation can actually move forward unless it is truly advanced in digital. So we will talk about consumers. We will talk about large companies and how they manage technology. We will talk about the changes coming in communications, and that will have a very interesting one hour for you. I'm going to give you a warning that I'm going to introduce everyone in a moment, but after I introduce everyone, I'm going to ask the audience what you want to learn today. So prepare that question, and I'll come back to you in a moment, but I want to introduce our panelists. To my left is Zhang Zhaowang, and he is the chairman of China Mobile. He is running the largest mobile company in the world with 600 million subscribers. So thank you for being here. Appreciate it. And sitting to his left is Tetsuo Yamakawa, and Tetsuo is the vice minister for policy coordination in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications in Japan. And his background is in broadcasting. Thank you for being here. Michelle Guthrie is head of strategy for Google in Asia, and she told me that she used to work at News Corporation, where you were head of ethics, right? I was kidding. How does he know about that actually? Oh, you were okay. You bailed at just the right time. And then to her left is Takeshi Tetsuno, who is a professor at Keio University, but you probably know him better because he was at Dokomo, and he was the inventor of iMODE at Dokomo. And then finally, Suhas Gopanath is a CEO and chairman of Globals, an outsourcing company based in India, which he started at the very old age of 14. And your parents gave you a bigger allowance, and that allowed you to fund the corporation, I think, but it's great to have you here today. So these are our panelists. I'd like to now ask the audience, what do you want to learn in this one hour? We'll take just a few ideas out there. If there's microphones, anybody want to put their hand up? What do you want to learn today? Yeah, right here. A short run time from the National University of Singapore. I'm particularly interested in balance. It seems quite clear that digital technologies is going to transform the way we live, the way we operate businesses, make it easier, faster, better. But how do we manage the downsides in terms of security, confidentiality, and even maybe the impact it can have on social behavior and social norms? Thank you. Excellent question. Thank you. Something else someone wants to learn here? Yeah. I'd like to know about cloud computing. It has great potentials, and it's already become a hot topic. Cloud computing is the direction of our application in terms of its combination with mobile technologies. What are the bottlenecks, including security, disaster recovery, etc. And in this process, in terms of industry application and enterprise application, we seem to have a long way ahead. Thank you. Actually, yeah, you're here. Yes, my name is Wim Sveldin. I'm with Alcatel Lucent. The question for the panel is, do the panelists believe that Asia can really lead in the digital world? And if so, how many years would it take, what would be the time frame for Asia to become a leader in digital? Good question. Two more. Then we'll get going here. Right here. Just maybe two more. Hi, I'm Stephen Priestle, representing Niveau and using cloud computing business. My question is about maturity of market. Did the panel think it's the case that, especially the developing part of Asia, is actually at an advantage because it skipped the early part of digital development and gone straight into 2.0 on social media? So it didn't have to go through the early stage. Therefore, it may be more advanced than the second stage. Right here. Right here. Thank you. My name's Chandru Naya. This is not meant to be a trick question, but I'd like a definitive answer about, what's the percentage of the internet that constitutes pornography and can the good guys at Google do something about it? What was the first part of the question? What part of the internet constitutes pornography? I've had various answers about 60%, 70%. So I'm interested in what's the role of the state, but can the good guys at Google do something about it? I think it's algorithms. Okay. Great question. Thank you very much. That's a great start for us. So I want to now turn to the panelists, and I'm now going to do probably the smallest and least scientific survey ever of digital in Asia. And I'm going to ask each of our panelists what they personally use in digital. First question, and the second question is, what do you expect to be using in two years? Chinza, kick that off. What do you personally use? In your home and with you, in work? Okay. Yeah. Yes, myself, I have five devices for mobile phone. You have five mobile phones? Five mobile phones, but it is my profession. I not only use mobile phones to get information, I use that to try our network quality. So sometimes when I'm in a car. So the five phones ring? Yeah, I always make the phones connected to check the quality. So I'm exceptional. So we're having a race to see who's most connected here. He's in the lead. Tetsuo. Well, my background is broadcasting, so I enjoy broadcasting every day. Well, in Japan we use the ISDBT mode, digital broadcasting format. And it is very clear and we can enjoy the clear images and very good sound. And actually we use internet, well, entertainment for all kinds of entertainment we can use in the internet. And I'm one of it. OK, Michelle? Well, number one, it's my Android. A few of us went out for dinner last night and it was, OK, where's the restaurant, what's good to eat there, so that we make sure that we order the right thing. And then I'm pretty old fashioned as well in just sort of having 14 years in television. So I'm probably the only mother that encourages her kids to watch television. So I still watch a lot of cable TV, particularly HD channels. I think the quality is extraordinary. Are you reading fewer magazines and newspapers? No, no, I do read newspapers and magazines and actually not on the phone or on a tablet. I travel a lot. I'm based in Singapore but cover Asia. So normally I'll carry New Yorker magazines. I save them up, weekend FT and sort of take them on planes and then leave them behind. But you have a Chromebook, right? Yes, I do. I'm testing a Chromebook. And you have an Apple device? I do. I have a MacBook as well. That's allowed at Google? OK. That is allowed. That is allowed. Takeshi? Yes. All my secret is inside this phone. All my secret is inside this phone. When I access it to the internet, I use email and all the hidden phone book is inside. And with my fingerprint authentication, I can find out my girlfriend's name but my wife cannot find out. So all my secrets is inside. So everything's in that phone? Yes, plus wallet. I can pay money by this and the home key, key to my house is here. It's outside of the phone. I couldn't develop a special service like that. But everything is in my phone. And recently, revolution in my life is iPad. By having a tablet, computer, I decided not to take PC anymore. So everything is done by iPad and this phone. So your PC is gone, iPad over? Yes. I have PC but in my house. But not when you travel. OK. In my case, I mainly use smart phone and an iPad right now. So I usually use a PC aggressively but of course because of the purpose, especially to access a CRM system, so to access my mails, I'm quite comfortable with a tablet, PC and a smart phone. So how many iPads up here? How many iPads? OK. By the way, when the iPad was announced at Davos two years ago, that was in Switzerland. We all got to you like this. We said we'll never use that. We don't need that thing. We all had PCs. Who would ever use an iPad? Just to show you how brilliant we were. OK. Let's go to our first question. Let's move away from consumers. Thank you for introducing yourselves digitally to us. So at Forrester, we spend lots of time with very large corporations. And we spend lots of time with CIOs and enterprise architects and large companies. The basic foundation of digital is how large organizations manage digital. That's large companies and also large entities within the government. In the U.S. we think, and we look at our research, we think that Europe is about two years behind the U.S. Europe is about two years behind the U.S. in managing technology and Asia is about three to four years behind in managing technology in large organizations. So, Suhas, you have a number of clients who are domestic in India. You also have clients in Europe and the U.S. What do you think about that statement? Yeah, I feel those CIOs in India are certainly, like, haven't got mature to this extent how it is in a western country. So, when we work with large and even small and medium size enterprises, we've always seen that the CIOs are mainly focusing on all those areas only when the management has taken initiative. So, we've seen that the majority of the Indian CIOs of small and medium size enterprises have not come up with their own initiatives and it's very unfortunate that at times in terms of the technology that's been adopted in enterprises, it's still very obsolete. So, because it's high time that, of course, in an emerging country like India, we start upgrading the technology which has been adopted. So, I find it very hard to sell to the CIOs in India. Yeah, so CIOs have to rise up in India. Exactly. They're too low a level. Yeah. Any other comments about this topic? Michelle, I don't know if you deal with... Yeah, you know, I think for us, one of the issues that we see across Asia is really the importance of SMEs. Small and medium size businesses across Asia really drive so much economic growth and economic activity. Actually, McKinsey came out with a study sort of maybe a year or two ago that surveyed about 5,000 SMEs. And essentially, those ones that have a web presence have two times the share of revenue from exports. Twice the level of jobs created and they grow twice as strongly as those that don't have a web presence. So, I think that increasingly SMEs are leading some of the way in terms of really getting at that web presence. Will they have the ability to manage the technology well? That's the question. That's why the cloud is important, right? I mean, I think that in order to scale the ability to have digital services be accessible by SMEs, it doesn't make sense to have your own IT person, your own data center, it just doesn't. So, the take up of cloud services is really sort of a key component of SMEs really being able to take advantage of it. So, there was a question, which is a good one, which said maybe Asia gets to skip over the old stuff and go right to the new stuff. That new stuff could be cloud. Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. And mobile. I spend a lot of time in Indonesia and you're not going to have fiber to the home in Indonesia. You just not. And you don't need it. Essentially, the level of data usage on mobile is extraordinary and they really haven't rolled out 3G yet. And people are accessing it through feature phones. So, you can see that there's tremendous demand but people are figuring it out based on the existing level of technology and making it work. So, Jin Zhao, if you look at the CIO of China Mobile, is that CIO a powerful CIO, powerful executive at the company? We think we are an IT company, a telecom operator. So, CIO becomes more important than others and it reminds me of other issues. You know, digital technology has changed the way we live, changed the way we work and even changed the way we operate our business. And not only the people don't know how to do that and even it confused the company itself. So, some people say it is a hyper-connected world. I don't think so. I don't think we overuse digital technology. And what is the problem? The problem is we need to change ourselves for our operation. For example, there are many new things we have to face, the convergence and the management and the protection of privacy. So, we will give those people more rights, more responsibility to do that. So, you see that CIO is rising, at least in your organization. Any thoughts on the CIO and internal management of technology? One thing I can say is, in Asia, liquidity of CIOs or top management are less than US. So, the evolution of technology is so high and if CIO stays more than 10 years in the same company, his mindset would be delayed. That's why in the US companies, those are very changing their jobs very rapidly. And they are trying to bring new things always. So, that's the kind of difference, I believe. I think this is the kind of digital divide between consumers and the industry side. The industry side is always behind in Asian countries. So, we might agree that then Asia is behind in technology management. Someone brought up the question of bottlenecks here. So, perhaps that's a bottleneck for Asia, that the management of technology in large corporations and perhaps in government. So, connected to this issue of technology management is the leadership of companies and organizations, the CEOs. Now, the top 100 companies in the world, the average age of the CEO is 59. So, that person went to college or university without a computer. They had a typewriter and they had something called Whiteout, which I won't get into. So, they did not use computers as kids. But last year, we observed that there became a CEO of one of those companies who did have an Apple II when he was younger. So, we now see a change coming in the leadership of these companies where they have perhaps grown up with technology. So, how do we see the leadership of corporations and government in Asia in how they see technology? And I'll ask you a very simple question. Does the CEO of your organization use e-mail? Or Facebook. Or what, e-mail, Facebook, or Twitter? Or are they social? So, any... Yeah. Well, our ex-minister used the Internet and of course in the government, especially in Japan, their background is laws and economics. So, not a technical background. But it is very important to contact with people, massive people, even in the government. So, in order to make the best usage of the technology, rules and regulations are very important and we have to change our style. Well, our way of life to make the best usage of the technology. So, even the CIO and the top management. And the CEO as well. Yeah, that's right. Exactly the same. Any other comments here? We might imagine that most CEOs of most large companies in Asia do not use e-mail. I'm making this up, but I want to see how you react to this. Don't use e-mail and don't use Twitter, I think. Are you agreeing this? Another bottleneck perhaps. I'm not so sure. I guess we work with a lot of partners across the region. And I think from the top down, we see an incredible, and particularly in emerging markets, from the top down, this really sort of keen determination to actually get users where they are. And users where they are are here in cyber cafes and operating in a social world. So, it is very much trying to go after the users and the consumers and figuring out where you can reach them, both from an advertising side or selling them services side. And that's increasingly digital. So you're not as gloomy here? Yeah. You think the executives, the CEOs, are slowly moving up? Absolutely, because the consumers are forcing them to. I mean, that's where the activity is. You only have to watch your kids. This is society. Go ahead. I'll give you the example of China Mobile. China Mobile is a large company in Asia, across, and we have half a million employees, and we cover 98% of the population for our network. And we have no other choice for the ordinary business work. We have to use network. So, the total office process is network-based. We try to create an environment of office for paperless. And so, all employees, all leaders, all young, they use computer, they use mobile phone, they use tablets. It's become very, very popular. And this starts from the top with you and you're pushing this, everyone should do this. That's true. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So how about the view from India, maybe? Yeah. According to my experience, of course, the CEOs in India are, of course, enabled with technology connected. But I feel the setback with those CEOs is that, of course, the management is not very supportive because the management sometimes takes the CEOs to be the procurement officers. Yeah. So, it's very unfortunate that they don't understand the CEO. It's actually the part of the management and it is very, very important that the CEOs are involved in the strategic decision-making of the organization. So, I've seen management who approach the CEOs only when their CRM or their ERP system fails and, of course, you need the CEO to fix it. So, I feel that it has to be, it has to be initiated from the management to understand that the CEO is not only a procurement officer but he is actually the part of the management and he has to be involved in the strategic decision-making. So, more enlightenment is needed. More enlightenment. Right. Yeah. So, I'm going to do a quick round the horn here. Can each of you name a company in your country or maybe any Asian country that you think is best using digital as an example, an amazing example of using digital well? So, an example in the US would be Amazon as an example. Amazon has used digital to now become the dominant retailer in the United States. What would be your one example of companies in Asia? I mean, I've got an example and it just kind of shows you, I guess, what's possible. It's a bank in Australia called U-Bank and it's a bank without a branch. So, it doesn't have a branch at all. It only has online customer support 24-7 through Skype and through the phone. Where is it based? Which country? In Australia. Australia. And after three years, it has 100,000 customers. It's the 12th largest retail deposit bank in Australia with no physical presence. You know, that's pretty extraordinary in terms of you look at the physical infrastructure that most banks have and your ability to sort of bypass that is pretty wild. Good example. Other ones? I think HTC. HTC in Taiwan would be a great digital company example because actually, you know, they started to produce phones just three years ago, four years ago and now their market cap is more than Nokia. They revolutionized the process of manufacturing phones and the legacy from manufacturers cannot keep up with their speed. So, I think HTC. A company using digital to move very fast? To move very fast in terms of manufacturing phones. Any other examples? In India, I could immediately think of a website called MakeMyTrip.com which is a travel portal because I can imagine all those years where my dad was very hesitant to use his credit card online because he had apprehensions to use e-commerce for transactions but when MakeMyTrip started to enable the Indian consumers to book their flights or trains online, I think it has really opened up opportunities for e-commerce companies in India because it itself set as a benchmark and apart from the Indian consumers it has also encouraged entrepreneurship. So, probably somebody in a village who has access to the internet connectivity so he's invested on one laptop and he has got internet connectivity so he himself is acting as this agent for MakeMyTrip.com so all the villagers who have no access to connectivity but if they want to book flight tickets or bus tickets he acts as the agent. So... Good example. Yeah. I don't... Well, it is very difficult to name the one country from the viewpoint of the government but one example is Rakuten I suppose that's who had the top share and e-commerce in Japan and the founder of Rakuten is Mr. Mikitani and he's very famous for because he introduced formal language in the company English, not Japanese. So, it is very difficult for us Japanese to make the best use of internet because you... well, you have to use English not Japanese. So, Japanese is isolated language. So... This is interesting though. Because he used English as his language that enables him to be more digital the company to be more digital. Yeah. Did they get that right? That's right. We can connect all over the world in English but it is very difficult for us to make the... for example, Facebook to connect English or the United States. So... Well, one example is Rakuten the formal language is English. So... Good example. You can't use your own company as an example. No, I can't do that. No, I know. So many examples for that and because many company in some sector, some industry are based on network, based on digital technology. So, I don't name a specific company I just give you example in China that is network shopping. Network shopping now is very popular in China. Many young people they don't go to malls they don't go to market just buy anything on network. And I didn't understand I asked one of my young employee why you buy something just from network he told me if I buy a shirt I need to pay from the supermarket I need to pay 500 yuan but if I buy the same shirt or network only 300, that's the reason. Okay, so it's not a company but a sector. So, I'm going to take a veer here quick fast question for Tetsuo in the tsunami crisis how was digital used during the crisis and what lessons did you learn about digital in that crisis? Okay, taking this opportunity first I would like to express our sincere appreciation for the support and the confidence from all over the world and at that time mobile phones and the fixed phones are not available because of the traffic is too large but we can use internet we can use Twitter and in order to get very detailed information these kind of measures were very had played a very, very important role where abouts and where you can go and where is the safe place and where you can get food. So the technology that is being used was Twitter mainly? Yeah, that is very important. So Twitter was the critical technology for you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Three years ago there was a very big quick in Sichuan province and we found when people retreated from a building the first thing is to take their mobile phone to try to get information try to give information to their family members. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, what we found in Japan was we launched Person Finder in Japan to have people log where they were again using internet because people were not sure couldn't get hold of friends and one of the things that a lot of our users did was actually take photographs of the lists of people in various shelters upload them onto PICASA and then volunteers would essentially turn that into digital name files that we could upload which was extraordinary. You use the technology that you have. The information from the refugees are integrated to the Google and it was, well, it really played a great role as well. So Twitter, Google? And the very funny, different perspective I found was nuclear plant accident actually and after the nuclear plant accident so many people started to learn nuclear things. Actually, by net, internet. Now in Japan many experts on nuclear plant are existing there and by using net you can learn a lot and sometimes you can know much better than the specialists at least the government officials. So so many amateur professionals amateur professionals about the nuclear plants are now existing in Japan. That's a very funny perspective. Okay, so let's turn it to consumers. I'm going to give you a little bit of boring data here from Forrester but I think it may set the stage for us. Forrester believes that tech spending in Asia will grow approximately 14% in 2011 to around $500 billion. However, we are forecasting that in 2012 tech spending in Asia will drop to 6%. That's a major drop from 14% to 6%. So we believe that tech spending will be dropping here. Now let's turn to consumers. If you look at PC adoption 90% of adults in Metro China now have a personal computer and 36% of adults in Metro India have personal computers and both of these numbers are up significantly in 2011. Online, 88% of Metro Chinese now use the internet at least monthly. Up 13% from 2010 and 34% of adults in Metro India are now using the internet or now online monthly. That's up 9%. And then the last is the fastest growth is in mobile internet usage. 45% of Metro Chinese are online via a mobile device at least monthly. That's up 21% from 2010 and 11% of Metro Indians access the mobile net monthly up from just 1% in 2010. So fastest growth now is in India. Japan saw the biggest jump in mobile internet usage as now 57% of adults now have access and that's up 24% from last year. So we see growth in PC, we see growth in online and we see the fastest growth in mobile usage. So I want to ask the entire group the question as we look forward over the next two to three years what is the one change in consumer behavior that you think will be most evident, most important, the one change that we will see let's lengthen this out, maybe not two to three years let's say the next one to five years. How will the consumer change most, what will be the major consumer change that you'll see? You're at Google so you've got to go first. I think the thing for me is that the next 100 million users coming onto the internet in Asia are going to primarily be accessing first on mobile and it may be only on mobile. It may be that they don't migrate to PC because as these devices get better and better and smarter and smarter and they're mobile then I need a PCY. So you're saying the next big change is no PCs? Well I think the next big change is really the primary access point for the internet is really going to be mobile. So moves from PC to mobile, great one, others, yeah. I think a touch panel would be really widely used everywhere and on my kids, three years old dollar they were thinking all the displays should be a touch panel. So now she's touching all the TV screens saying, you know, don't move, don't move, why? Like that. And of course Windows 8 is touch. Yeah, so all the PCs, smartphones, tablets, everything would be touch based. So move away from PC, moving to touch, any other ideas? I feel in India I think the future would certainly be in the mobile by which I feel the financial inclusion and the inclusion for education would be through mobile itself to reach at the bottom of the pyramid or the bottom of the billions. So I think within the next five years we may not see many number of ATM machines but I think the ATM machines would actually be replaced with mobile phones. So increasing mobile deeper into the population? Yeah, others? Idea to point out the negative side but maybe all of the people will face the privacy problem. Yeah. So what does that mean, the privacy problem? Well, for example, the convergence of technology. For example GPS and the mobile phones. Well, you can specialize where are the people now and what is the people doing now? So, of course, some people can use it in a very appropriate manner but there is many people with LDA and digital divide and we're not so good at using this kind of cutting-edge technology. So, some people are... because some people doesn't want to know where they are but everyone has the possibility to know what they are doing now. So let me ask you a question about privacy. Do you think that Asians will be more possessive of their privacy than Europeans or Americans or others? Well, there is no difference between Asians and Europeans I suppose because I know, for example, in the UK the privacy problem is a very important problem as well and we are discussing about the internet, that kind of problem, but I don't think there is no difference between Asians. So you don't think any difference? I will answer your original question about the trends. I think we will have more application for mobile use and we try to have a ubiquitous network. How to realize, how to make it ubiquitous I think wireless is a very good solution to do that. I suppose today here in this room some people are using mobile phones to have live broadcasting for the situation of this meeting but now they use the micro-blog technology. But today they just to have some text and picture transmission simultaneous. But I think for the next generation of mobile technology we call it LTE, people can use their mobile phone to have a video transmitting simultaneously. Real-time. So more mobile. Kind of amazing statistic from Forester. In Indonesia and the Philippines are the fourth and sixth largest Facebook users in the world. And this is for you, Jin Sao. How pervasive will social computing become in Asia? When I say social, we think of it primitively today as Twitter, Facebook, etc. How pervasive will it be in Asia? Yes, of course. We didn't expect it is so popular in China. You know, in China there are many SNS. For example, I mentioned before the micro-blog. It is a Twitter similar application and so many people are using that. Even for these summer hours. I think this is the first world economic new championship meeting here. And the contents are transmitted so fast at the same time. You just give a speech and at the same time many, many people know that from mobile phone, from micro-blog. And I don't know the exact data. Maybe more than 200 million people are using micro-blog. And also we have some chatting, you know, QQ, Tencent chatting. It is very popular. And I think we also have a very similar program like Facebook that is Ren Ren. And it is also very popular. So this trend we think is unstoppable, rising fast. Everyone, no one is disagreeing with this, I don't think, right? Yeah, okay. Let's take a question from the audience. Yeah, right here. Hi, I'm Aaron Back from Dow Jones. I wanted to ask about what I think is sort of an elephant in the living room here, which is the role of government controls in Asia, particularly China. If we're talking about whether Asia can lead the world in being digital, some of the technologies that we're name-checking in this conversation, like Twitter and Facebook, are not available where we're sitting. So is that irrelevant? China has its own local champions that are flourishing, as Chairman Wang just mentioned. So is it really irrelevant that there are these controls in this market? Yeah, so you jumped ahead. That was my next on my agenda, but let's take it now. I think it's good. Government and digital, government and social. Let's open it up. Anyone, Takeshi? It's a really difficult, disputable topic, but before going to China issue, I can take up an example of Japan. Actually, Japan was far ahead of mobile technology, actually. Almost all the phones, all the phones can be accessible to the Internet. But actually, back to four years ago, government intervened to the business model of operators, actually. After that, the speed of innovation was slowed down. But I'm not sure if this was bad or good, because by taking the operators' power down, there were opportunities for newcomers to jump in, especially holding companies like Google and the other Internet players came into the telecom industry. So I cannot say the government intervention would be bad, but the balance would be really, really delicate. And at least the government officials and the political sectors have to understand the pros and cons of government intervention. And I'm not sure China, but because of China firewall, so many Chinese companies are now doing lots of variety of services, actually. And sometimes it's far advanced than the global service. So I'm going to pin you down here. Do you think there should be more government involved in digital or less government involved in digital? I prefer less, but sometimes the Internet ecosystem can adopt any kind of government intervention into the ecosystem, and some new commons would generate something new. So if the government were to intervene, Internet may go around them. Exactly. What about in India? Sure. Of course, in India, the government intervention in terms of the Internet is extremely very minimal. So in fact, government itself has actually started to adopt Twitter and Facebook to address the citizens' concerns. So it makes it more social. So as a citizen, if I have a concern, I can go on to the Facebook fan page of the problem of ministry, and I can express my concern. So they're enabling more Internet? Yeah, I think government should not act as a barrier, but they need to start adopting digital and starting to engage the users as well. Okay. I agree with what Sahas said. Essentially, anytime there are barriers towards allowing the Internet to work as an interoperable platform around the world, there are issues. Whether it's as simple as requiring a data center in a particular country, I know that in India, RIM had a lot of difficulties in India and Indonesia in terms of requiring RIM to actually have a data center in those places. So again, it doesn't help when you have artificial barriers to stop the Internet really operating on a global basis. So less government, less government, less government. Get near. From my perspective, because we are operators and we have our requirements, the operation is changing and we are facing very new things, for example, convergence. Now, we have a lot of convergence examples. For example, when you do mobile TV, mobile newspaper, that is telecom plus media. And when we do mobile payment, that is telecom plus finance. And when we do mobile games, mobile music, that means telecom plus entertainment. And for electronic reading, that's telecom plus publishing. And so we need a new specification. We need new rules because it is not only a specific sector can finish all jobs. So we hope the government will issue some new rules, new policies to support those convergence. That's in my perspective. So when you say new laws, you mean less laws? Less regulation, do you think? Or different regulation? Because it is very new. New regulation, I mean. Hopefully less. Because in order to make the best usage of the internet or a new technology, sharing ideas is very important and sharing knowledge is very important. But there are so many problems that we have to deal with. Privacy or the cyber attack or IPL. Well, so every country has their rules and regulations. And the respect of law is very important point. So it is somewhat incompatible demand. But we need some kind of golden harmony between those two. Someone asked a question about balance. So what you are saying, Tetsu, the government should be involved in balance. If I add an observation here, because of this internet regulation in mainland, I see that it has also encouraged entrepreneurship because for the fact that you have got hundreds of local entrepreneurs who started to build their own versions of Facebook or Twitter or even the YouTube here. And in terms of actually its user base, it is almost equivalent to those user base in the western country. So one way it has an advantage to the local entrepreneurs because they see it as an opportunity. So as soon as the firewall is introducing new website to be blocked, so you have an entrepreneur who opens its local version here. So creating more entrepreneurship almost. Another question from the audience. Yeah, right here. Thank you. Thank you. We have been talking about the consumer or the demand side of the technology. I would like to hear some discussions on the supply side of it. And my question is whether Asia will become the most competitive in the supply side of this. Will that surpass that of America? Asia is abundant in the very talented labor and that's very important for the supply side of the digital technology. So this is where I was going next. Thank you very much. Yes. So I'm going to ask it in this way. Could Steve Jobs have grown up in India or China? No. And come out of India and China. Why? No. The issue is we are talking about Asia but the Asian market is so fragmented. So in China, so many Chinese companies are powerful but they're only in China. They cannot go global. And Japan as well. The market size of Japan is small but small enough for several companies. And Indonesia, very different. So each market... But China is a very large unfragmented market. Even only in China, you can be big enough. And the liquidity of money and the human resources would be limited into one country. But in the US case, you can get all the talent from all over the world like Google. My ex-staff is working for Google. So many people. So you're saying we couldn't have Steve Jobs in Asia because not enough money. What else? What are the reasons? I mean, the base market for humans and the money, capital, would be limited into one country. You could do fragmented. Other comments here. Why can't Steve Jobs come out of Asia? Because of the ecosystem itself. Because in India even now, actually when I started my company I couldn't find an investor or I couldn't find a partner. So I think the ecosystem is actually missing in India. So if you look at Silicon Valley you have the ecosystem of academia with the Stanford University or access to the university, access to the research center, access to the venture capitalists or investors. So I strongly feel that the ecosystem was missing. But how Steve Jobs had been to India for his yoga classes but unfortunately it was not for his research. So we're missing ecosystem. It's too fragmented. Not enough money. Other comments? I mean, I sort of turned it around a bit. And I guess, my sort of perspective is that number one, things are changing so fast. As you were saying three years ago, HTC didn't make mobile phones, right? Nokia was king of the hill. That changed actually very, very fast. So I wouldn't preclude anything. I think also the advantage of actually coming out of Asia is it's really hard. That operating in India or Indonesia with limited resources and very low revenue per user, it's tough. But if you manage to do it, why can't you launch that model in Africa or Latin America or actually at the low end market in developed markets? So I'm a great believer in sort of bottom of the pyramid. I do think that the power of innovation around business models, you look at the online games market in China. I mean, that was driven by the fact that you couldn't protect intellectual property around PlayStation games and console games. But they innovated to say, well, why can't we have an online system where the revenue is actually generated by selling items in games where the cost is kind of zero in delivering that. So you think Steve Jobs could come out of Asia? My answer is yes. We can have our Steve Jobs. Because in China, in Asia, we have very, very large market and big market demands. We have enough money to support that. So many capital now are in Asia, in China. We have a lot of talents. So why don't we can have some innovation? And I think there is, for our industry, there is opportunity. When we talk about 3G, people say, what is 3G? 3G is smartphone, our consumer said. But no, 4G is coming. When I visited the United States, Verizon now already launched 4G LTE technology. But some American customer asked the question, what is 4G? What is different between 3G and 4G? It's very difficult to answer that question. So we need the same question in China, in Asia. So what we need today is to create, to invent a new device to tell our people, that is 4G and we need our Steve Jobs. Now, I'm supposed to be the facility, but I'll make a statement here, that I think the major issue why we may not see Steve Jobs for a while is cultural, but that's another hour that we could spend on that, which we're not going to do today. So we only have five minutes left. It feels like we've been here for minutes, because this has been such an interesting topic. But I want each of you to give one piece of advice for everyone in this room about how to navigate the next five years of digital transformation in Asia. Maybe it's not advice, maybe it's your one observation as to what will happen in the next five years in Asia, in digital. I think some of the applications, digital applications in Asia is far advanced compared to the US and Europe, especially like e-money, electric money. In Hong Kong, Singapore, and in Japan, majority of the people are using e-money, and this is really convenient. But because of the fragmentation of the market and because of the many things, it's not global yet. But maybe within five years, we're going to find out something global application from Asia. So you think e-money, in fact, may start here and go around the rest of the world. Great, excellent observation. Other observations? For me, it's mobile first. A number of the innovations we've launched have actually been mobile first. So we brought in voice search to the phone, because particularly if you're sitting in the back of a taxi in India, it's hard to type. And so if you're searching for something, why not be able to speak it in? We actually have now moved that over to the desktop. But it was essentially a mobile application first. So I think, particularly in Asia, think about how you solve problems on mobile first. So stay centered on mobile. Yeah, that's it. Digital technology has the possibility to mitigate digital divide in Asia. For example, the mobile phone, the penetration rate of a mobile phone is very fast, compared with fixed phone. Well, of course, we can use it. We can set it very easily. And the investment cost is not so large. So they can mitigate digital divide in Asia. That is very important. So we will see the digital divide mitigated by mobile. Yeah, that's right. I feel in the next five years, we would see more e-commerce transactions, especially in an emerging country like India, which was very conservative about the usage of online payments. And at the same time, I think internet would be more local. So currently it's more international. So you've got more international content. So probably to search restaurants or to access to your local information, you would see more users using the internet for your local purpose. So in the rural environments, access to local. Yeah. Very quick answer. I think in Asia we have a lot of things in common with other places. But we have our unique characteristics. We have our unique advantages and opportunities. And for example, the application of mobile phone in Asia, people like to use mobile phone for games. It is different from other places. So we need to use those kind of new opportunities. And I hope the vendors, the software developers, the operators and the consumers can make more contributions to build digital Asia in the future. Excellent. So I'm sorry to get to more questions. This is a massive topic which we had a lot of very valuable thoughts from everyone on the panel. Thank you all for coming. So I want to thank Jin Zhao. Thank you for being here. Thank you very much, Michelle. Excellent. So thank you to this panel. Excellent.