 My name is Troy Dawson. I do work for Red Hat, but that has no bearing on this talk or my participation in the Apple. I am currently the Apple steering committee chair. And this is the state of Apple. Some of the things if you saw Matt's talk at the beginning the state of Fedora. I have done some of the things similar to that because I like how he does things. In particularly I like graphs and numbers and he was gracious enough to let me grab some from him. And although they don't necessarily have bearing on what we do in Apple. It's I'm going to share some with you guys. So first things first. Total numbers. As Matt said on Thursday, there is two different styles of number gathering. The first is unique IP addresses. Getting uploads each day. And if we stack them all together, all the releases together, it looks like we're getting pretty close to 40 million Apple users. That's really cool and impressive. If you look more at the breaking things out individually. This one is particularly fun to look out for, I like looking at the rail five and the, sorry, Apple five and the Apple six. If you look over here, the Apple five. When rail five was end of life, there's this distinct drop. We still have people trying to get updates for Apple five. But if we look at the yellow, which is Apple six. And we look when Apple when rail six was end of life, instead of a drop we actually have a spike. We don't know why. But this is my opinion. I think a lot of people are going to be staying on rail six or some variant and they wanted to mirror everything as fast as possible before things went away. Just my opinion. If we look at Apple seven and Apple eight, they're both really nice. Nice curves. It's fun to look at those if we were making money. That's the way things would want to go. So there's the new way of gathering information. I don't remember what Matt called it. I could say Bronson source of fire. It's better counting. Okay, but it uses DNF and because of that, we only have numbers for Apple eight and above because real light and above is when DNF started. But it gives it is anonymized for people that are concerned, and it is opt out of all. But it does give some interesting information. So I started off with the names for the arch 64. Again, this is just the arch 64 as you think Santos Linux has the majority. Red Hat Enterprise Linux has a very big chunk of that. And then this is the cool thing Rocky Linux has 18.5%. It hasn't been around very much. The 64 Rocky Linux is doing really good. Then we got it's even beating out sento stream. Then we have Oracle Linux and Alma got this little bitty thing. Now if we look at power PC 64. Well, it's not too surprising there's red hat Enterprise Linux is doing 90% a little bit and sentos and little bit sento stream. Anybody want to guess what s 390x looks like. If you can afford to own an s 390x, you can afford to do red hat Enterprise Linux. So here's the interesting one, which is x a 664 because that's where the majority of machines are right now. And this isn't too surprising Santos Linux is doing 68 followed by red hat Enterprise sento stream. I sort of wish Oracle Linux was a little bit lower. But here Alma is beating Rocky Linux 2% to 1.4. But it's still ahead of it. And then cloud Linux. I'm really curious what this is going to look like next year, because Santos Linux is still around. I'm betting Santos Linux is only going to drop to 20 to 25% next year. If I'm, if I'm giving this slide next year, that is my prediction. We'll see how close I am. Now, this is why x a 6 is so interesting versus everything else. All that red is x 86 98% of the machines. We do have a decent chunk of art 64 and power PC. But the s 390x is so far off the graph it doesn't even measure 1%. I'm going to get into this. And if those of you remember Matt's talk, this is for H for it. So these are for the old machines machines that have been running for a long time. Now, if we look at the next slide, this is the age over time. I really like the consistency of this blue, which is the first week. And remember mass talk. This are machines that are only around for one week. So this means that consistently we're getting for Apple users we're getting between 40 to 50% of just one week users which means these machines are usually being rotated very fast there might be containers they might be so they only spin up do one test and spin right back down and get thrown away. The other thing that's interesting is the two to four weeks or basically one month. This. I'm just guessing here, but in my mind I picture virtual machines or cloud machines that do a complete refresh once a month so once a month they wipe the machine clean spin up a new one. And then we have our longer lasting machines. Matt can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this red is only coming in here around may because that's how long it took before we had 25 weeks of reporting with this new way of doing that. If he doesn't correct me then then I'm right. The feature landed an 8483. Oh, okay. Okay, so it's only been running 8483. Okay. So, enough about graphs. They're fun to look at but they don't really. For Apple. We don't get money based on any of this. We don't get money so. Oh, when I did have one more graph I forgot about that. This one's also going to be interesting to look at next year. I am one of the people that makes well. So I sort of flattered the purple red head enterprise Linux has continued to grow. That's actually not a surprise. It's continued to grow over the lifetime of well. This is one of those graphs will be fun to look at next year. Okay, what everybody was asking about, what is this. This is, I'm not gonna say our new logo. This is our current iteration of our new logo. Apple has gone a long time with the logo that not only has been hidden, but people didn't know what it was. So we are working on a new logo. We're hoping that it doesn't take as long as for doors logo took to take for doors logo took. But this is what we currently have. Hopefully, within three or four months, maybe by the end of the year, it'll do do good. People said, Hey, what is it? And let's be honest, it's an abstract to me. I picture the red as well. The top is fedora and sort of ratcheting things into there. But it the fun thing you in in the slides at the end, we do have a link to the issue tracker that goes over this. This actually started out as the tail of a center tilted on its side. And then it went from there. It's amazing how things get changed. So, moving on. Over the past year, we've had many things this is to me, a sort of a changing year for Apple. And this is because of Centos Centos stream the changes in Centos. But one of the problems we're having this year was packages not getting into Apple eight people were, you know, they they're in wells, Apple seven but not an Apple eight and we do not automatically just move things over. There's such a large gap five years between seven and eight that many of the packages from Apple seven didn't want to deal with eight either they moved on in a new job or something else. Because of that, we, the Apple steering committee started working on a way to do. I wrote it down so, so I wouldn't forget and then I lost what I did. Anyway, we started Apple packages stick to help deal with that so that when if a package isn't a maintainer isn't responding to the request to build it in Apple eight that if the packages stick wants to it can take that package. So we do the proper procedures, which those procedures are linked at the end of the slides, and eventually get that package built into Apple eight, and as a SIG, so not necessarily an individual maintain that package. This is on a package by package basis, this is not a SIG saying we're going to bring all the Apple seven packages and all the store packages into Apple eight. This is on a package by package basis. And the main reason for this is for, I'll call them infrastructure packages. You know you have a lot of people want to maintain the big package, but there's 20 little packages that need to get maintained and a lot of these little packages were just sitting there. And the Apple package or SIG has been formed to address that issue. You, you don't have to be on the committee to join the SIG. You do have to request that you can't just automatically get on it, but if you're interested in maintaining some packages that might be a good way to come in. The other big thing that came in was Apple Next. This is Carl George's thought and and I appreciate a lot of the work he's done for that. There have been others that have done a lot of the work, but he's been spearheading this. Apple is built off of regular rail packages. The rail seven packages is rail eight packages they're not built off CentOS they're not built off scientific clinics and they're real rail packages. With CentOS stream being upstream of rail. I would use that. Hey, I want to run CentOS stream, but I also would need Apple and this library or that library has been updated in stream hasn't made it into rail needs to get built. Apple Next is built off of CentOS stream packages. It will be a complete Apple replacement. It is meant to be layered on top of. So if package foo needs to be rebuilt on stream, they can be, but you don't. And it will be layered on top of Apple and one stream gets merged into the next one. So, right now, CentOS stream eight is waiting for the rail 8.5 release when rail 8.5 release comes out. Those packages that are currently in in Apple Next eight can go get rebuilt on Apple and they will be built on Apple 8.5. And then people can can continue to use the Apple. Apple Next is like I said for rebuilding packages where libraries gone up. You know, for example, KDEs had to be rebuilt because QT was updated and and you couldn't use the KD desktop. And that last made me lose my train of thought. Anyway, Apple Apple Next is meant to be a layered thing. This is also open doors for the next slide. Apple nine. We are thinking about this rail nine should be released in a year. That's the current timeline. And CentOS stream nine technically is out. It hasn't been widely advertised but you can grab composes of it. It's not in beta yet. So it's really early. But having the Apple Next lays the foundation for us to have Apple nine in a in a better fashion than we had then Apple eight came out. We are planning on having Apple nine next or Apple next nine, both of them are proper to say that's when we built off of CentOS stream nine. And we currently don't have an estimate we are working on it. Our current hand wavy estimate is before the end of the year. It could be earlier. Could be hopefully it's not later, but it could be. Now, the transition from Apple next nine to regular Apple nine. I'm not going to spoil the things. Mohan has a talk right after this one. I'm going to, I'm going to let him do that. Yeah, I'm not going to spoil it. Go to go to Mohan's talk. But we have a proposal for what we're going to do for the transition from Apple stream nine to plain Apple nine. It should work and it should make things smoother and quicker than building the regular Apple eight. Now, this is another thing. Apple and red hat. I wrote this down and I'm going to read it specifically so I because I have misquoted this and others have misquoted this. In the 2021 red hat summit. Gunner, he looks in a red header and higher up said, my hope is to make Apple a first class participant in the overall enterprise ecosystem. And following this, Mike McGrath said, you know, Apple is important. Now, what does that mean? First off, it does not mean the red hat is going to take over the Apple. It's going to take over everything. They are not planning on changing the committee doing anything like that. But there are a few things where they feel that they can help. One that I'm really crossing my fingers for is somebody working on infrastructure full time. Currently, if we need anything done for infrastructure. It's the fedora guys. In their spare time. Does the thing here or thing there. And it causes a lot of delays. Just because we don't have somebody dedicated to it. I'm really hoping that they managed to give us a full time. Possibly two. But I will be settled for one full time infrastructure people. The other thing. Is more, a lot of the other things are internal. One thing that I thought it happened, but it's still in the works. When red hat pulls a package from Apple and actually into rail. In the past, they haven't told Apple anything. They might send an email to the package maintainer doesn't usually get very far. They have, they are changing their official workflow. You might have heard me say in meetings that it should have been changed. It turns out it hasn't been changed. They have other. Issues come up. But by the end of the year, they will change the workflow. So they'll open a bugzilla. It will check to make sure it is not. Downgrading from Apple, if that makes sense. There's a couple of things in place so that that transition. A package going from Apple into rail will be smoother. Another transition that they are doing internally. And this leads to my next slide. Missing develop packages. Oh, sorry for the red. I can actually draw on here. Don't know why. Anyway, for those that don't know. When it builds a package from a source RPM, that source RPM might build several packages. I'm going to use flat pack as an example. When flat pack is built. There's a flat pack binary and then the flat pack develop package. This has library headers, various things that are needed to for another package to build that uses the flat pack libraries. So. Well, puts out the source, they're fine with putting out the source, but if they don't want to maintain a binary. They just send out the binary and in this case for flat pack, they just send out the flat pack binary. And withheld the develop. It just sort of sits in their internal Koji thing, which is called group. Now, in the past. The, the. I'm going to call the red hat business unit would say, you have to go through all these hoops and the answer is probably going to be no to giving this package released. They have finally, again, this is part of the. Apple is becoming a first class participant. And they have finally changed that thing so that it is up to the package maintain it. Now this change happened six months ago. But they didn't tell us until about two months ago. So anyway, they thought they changed and did, did all those great things, but if nobody knows about it, it doesn't do much good. So because of that, we do have a new process. And again, this is it linked at the end of my slides. I verified that it has been documented. The new process is twofold. A short term and a long term. I'm going to tell you the long term first because we're talking about the long term is to open a bugzilla. If you open one before six months ago or even four months ago, open one again. So we're looking for the package to be put into. CRB CRB is sort of code ready builder, but it's really those packages that red hat is releasing, but they're not going to support. So you ask for both real eight and real nine for the package to be put into CRB. But do two other things first say this is. The fact that this package is missing affects Apple builds. Because remember, they're being friendly to Apple. If it's, if you say it's affecting my Joe blow. Whatever they may or might not do anything. The second thing to add in that bug is what specific package. Using flat pack as an example. I was not able to build plasma discover. It's used to install flat packs and packages graphically. So when I opened the bugzilla, I said this package is affecting Apple. I'm unable to build plasma discover. And then I explained how important plasma discover was to the plasma discover. In the case of flat pack, the maintainer was overjoyed. He had been trying to get that develop package in. And when I put that bugzilla in, he, he leaped on it. And he said, yay. Now, not all package maintainers are that way. Some of them have a legitimate reason why they do not want their develop packages in there. But those are few. I'm going to say about 20% out of the four that I have put in, only one has said, I would rather not. So if they, if they would rather not, they have a reason for that. Please accept that. But the vast majority I've found are totally fine with it. But the vast majority I've found are totally fine with it. So that's the long-term thing. Flat pack is, I put that in like two months ago. It's probably still got another month before it actually makes it into the release. So what to do in the short term. This is another thing that the, the committee has worked through. And we've, we have a procedure for making. Apple packages that have just the develop package, or just the missing package. You don't. You don't have to do a package review. As long as you follow the steps. The, the most important thing is you start with. The, the red hat spec file. Now, Randy, you can grab it from CentOS, the CentOS stream, but you're not making your own spec file from the beginning. Because if you did, then you would need a package review. But if you start with the red hat spec file, you rename it. And our recommendation is you rename it. Package dash. Apple and using my example, I made flat pack dash. Apple. You change the spec file. Just enough so that. You know, it. My example, the flat pack built and it did all of its testing and all of that. But then at the very end, I deleted everything. That wasn't in the develop package. So you make that change. You can get an exemption and. For the most part, you can get it in. A day or two. It's got to work its way through Bodie. So if you have some friends that can test it. Then that's great. So that is the short term. So that is the short term. So open the bugzilla. Make your own. I'm going to call them Apple packages. That's. That's as close as a term as anybody else's. But when the package makes it into. A real eight or real nine CRB. You need to retire your Apple package. So that is it. So that is the short term. The short term. The short term. You need to retire your Apple package. So that is actually step three. So that's. It for, for develop packages. If you do have more questions about that. Be sure to put them in the question and answer. This is just a shameful plug. The very last talk in. In the nest is, I'm giving a talk on. I'm giving a talk on Apple. So. That's just a shameful plug. Questions and answers. Oh, I'm like, right. Right at the half hour. I'm doing pretty good. At this point. I want to invite the Apple steering committee members. To go ahead and. Join in. Here is, here's the link to my presentation. Because my presentation does have. The links. That I talked about. Before. So do I click on smooch. Hello, everybody. Hello. So. First question. And while people go ahead and put things in Q&A, because chat. It's harder. First question is, does the develop package explanation and way also play to non develop packages. Extension. Example extensions of the software that realms. The simply not ship. You see GCC. GCC net is not even not shipped. It is patched out of the spec file. So what would need to be done is somebody would need to create a. A specific source RPM. That. Compile GCC net and GCC at or whatever else is. Not. Yep. And so that would have to have a. A package review. It would have to have a package review. The package would have to also not, it would have to be sort of the opposite of the. GCC. It would have to have a package review. So. Our spec RPM where. It would not copy engine. You wouldn't replace GCC and other things. It's a part from that example. The answer is yes, as long as it's something that's built by the rail spec file. That's just not shipped. Typically that's double packages, but there's a few others. Yeah, I do have one. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But for some reason. They, they shipped the libraries, but they did not ship the binary. It's, it's their choice. But yes, so it doesn't have to be developed, but it does have to be built. With that spec file. Because otherwise you're writing a new spec. It'll have to go through a package review. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do. What is the best way to get a particular spec file for a package? Is this fed package or something else? That package would probably be the fastest. You could do fed package clone package name, and that'll clone down the Fedora package source. The Apple. For the Apple, for Apple packages, you'd have to check out like the Apple seven or Apple eight branch. Or if there is a difference, the apple eight next branch. It would only be slightly different until six months later when it can be merged back and compatible with the next version of roll. Yep. Well, one of the things I was thinking of is. The reason I thought that was because. Usually grab orders from sentos. Or sento stream. To for doing the developing because doing the Fedora, you don't necessarily want the story. You want the, the real one. Yeah, right. I was thinking, I didn't realize this question. If this question was in the context of like devil packages like that, then yes, you'd need to look at the sento s disk it to get the rel spec file. If it was just a generic question about like finding the spec file, you know, you're looking to port to Apple or an existing Apple package. Then the way I answered it was made more sense. And one other question is I haven't run into the develop problem for my Apple packages. Do I need to worry or is this an advanced topic? If you haven't run into it, you don't need to worry. If you have ran into it. It has been a thorn in your site for the past year and a half to two years. Is anyone seeing, are they just seeing me or are they seeing a screen? I'm trying to share. I'm just seeing you. Yeah. Okay. I thought this wouldn't work. All right. Let's try this again. So. One of the things that you were showing earlier was something similar to this, which is the count me stats for. Yeah. Releases. And yours. We can break down eight quite well due to different things that we find in eight. Yeah. Okay. I thought this wouldn't work. All right. Let's try this again. So one of the things that you were showing earlier was something similar to this, which is the count me stats for. Find an eight in seven is a lot harder, but we can sort of get an idea. Turns out sent us is a good portion of the users, but it isn't all of them. A good many of the systems are either that are seven systems are either derivatives sent us that remove some files or something like C panel or something like that. Well, you know, the seven there still was scientific clinics. Maybe that's it. Maybe there's scientific clinics machines. Could be, could be the site. There's two files that the apple release looks for that says what the distribution is that young can look at and send and sent us by default will send saying I'm sent us. And I think scientific Linux shows up. And we'll show up under here or we show up as alt arch. Would you mind making that bigger? Yeah. This is best I can do. Okay. So the little hops and dups you hear that tells you how many desktops there are. Because that's the weekend. And you know who turns off computers during the weekend, not servers desktops usually get turned off on the weekend. So every weekend we see a dip in the data. This is put to put them in perspective. Here is on the bottom rows you see down here is the eights for all stuff. The dark purple is sent us Linux eight. Then comes sent us Linux seven. And then the very top is every other sent us Linux box or every other Linux seven box. They have been growing quite a lot since beginning of July. Interesting. And that's all I was going to send you that, but I send it to somebody else instead. So anyway, that was that was it. I just wanted to point that out because it was we have a new question. If I share out the in case anyone else wants to play with that data, do you mind if I share out that data analysis CSV file? I believe it's public. This one that I did it from is not public. Ever mind. I have a chart too. We can answer the Q&A question first though. Well, this one's sort of long because it was the last part of my thing. If you don't mind how do I get the dash development to Apple when rel ships to the lives only. In summary, there's a short term and a long term. You should do them both. The links are in my presentation. But I will just put that in. No, that's stalled Apple requests. I always forget with what we call this, but that's not stalled Apple requests. I'm going to have to go through my own talk and click on the link. Okay. This is a nasty link. Just because it's so long, but I'm putting it in. Well, that's not it. But it's part of the Apple FAQ. This is updated. So short term. Make an Apple package that. That only has the develop. And long term. Request in bugzilla. For that package. Specifically saying that it is for Apple. And what package is failing to build. The reason. Red Hat has changed their mind within the last six months. And they're trying to be nice to Apple. But that's also why you have to say it's Apple. Because. For Joe blow down the street. Maybe they won't be as nice, but they're trying to be nice. All right. And if your package, if the develop package does get in there, don't forget to remove your Apple package. Okay. There's more questions. There aren't really. There's not really good statistics on the number of contributors. Mainly because. Sometimes packages get put into Apple. By. I would say that is a lot less than their offer door contributors. I would say that is a lot less than their offer door. That's all I can really. Say, I mean, there isn't the system isn't set up in a way to. Differentiate. All the time. Who. Who really is maintaining the package. And how many of. Sometimes. Package is in there. Without. A contributor. And sometimes most of the times. As in like. I may have. Put the package in there myself. At the beginning. And I forgot to take it out. So. The contributor. It's the person who's. Owning the packet. It's hard to tell who owns a package anymore. Yeah. Nobody owns a package. We, we maintain them. Yes. I forgot. We don't. We don't own packages. We maintain them. But yes, it is a lot less than there are. The door. Maintainers. And that's. I mean. This is a volunteer organization. Yep. We definitely encourage encourage anyone that. Is a foot or a package that wants to start getting involved. The Nepal. The Nepal. The Nepal. The Nepal. The Nepal. The Nepal package. Extra. I can't say. That is a foot or a package that wants to start getting involved the Nepal. Making their packages available for. Apple to get involved stopped by our IRC channel. On the bar. Come up, come attend our, the Apple steering committee meeting. It's an open meeting. Anyone can attend and there's those. There's always an open floor section to ask additional questions. We definitely would like to get as many people involved in that So, but we do have fewer packages. That's true. I think, not by 10%, but I think there's like 40,000 Fedora packages and 8,000 Apple packages is that about right. So, so we do have fewer packages, but any other questions here. Well, too long I might have to turn on happy. Oh, his battery's dead. Happy feet so he can do his little things. Well, I think we are, we've got eight minutes left. All right. I wanted to share one more graph. Matthew had asked a little while back about a graphic for the with the DNF count me stuff. Without CentOS Linux and rel squashing everything down where you couldn't see it. So I do have one question while you're doing that. What is that thing behind you? It looks like a dog holding the coffee cup. That is the this is fine dog. Oh, if you're probably familiar with the cartoon, if you're not, if you go to this is fine dog, that's a real website, then you can. They felt the need to announce that. All right, I think I'm sharing now. This is some of the public data that I was able to find smooch pointing me out from data analysis.fidoraproject.org. There's some CSV files in there and I've been I'm not good at map plot Lib graphs and data manipulation stuff, but I've been tinkering with it and getting a little better. This is the overall count me stuff for this is not this all systems not just the greater than a week old or two weeks old. It doesn't the overall trend line doesn't change a whole lot. It smooths out a little bit when you take out the less than a week old systems. We can see that CentOS Linux is still by far the most popular followed by rel and then sent to a stream and then the other ones get pretty far squished down. I did do another chart that takes out those top two. So you can see a little bit more the the growth of the various different distributions in the rel family, which is exciting to see. So, is that Orange Springdale or Oracle? The, the second line. Yeah, the bottom one is going to be springdale springdale averages 60 systems a week. These are in order with the. I did make them in order with the legend. So that is the order that they are stacked in. I leave it in there is no way for my when I was doing stuff I left it in is the bottom noise. There are other distributions that show up, but none of them beat spring springdale. So, once you've beaten springdale, then I started graphing various things themselves. So, but springdale Linux is was originally done by Princeton University of I think physics department as a different distribution and then they renamed it a springdale several years ago. It's, it's a lesser known scientific oriented. Well, you tell them the others, I was going to say, yeah, I'm familiar with it when I was doing scientific Linux. We, we talked with them some. But so springdale Linux is your is your baseline. Who does virtual virtuoso Linux. Virtuoso is. It's another cloud Linux. Actually, I think I labeled that one wrong. That is, I think what it's called is VZ Linux by virtuoso. I think virtuoso is the company. I think I screwed that name up. Yeah, I'll need to fix that. I haven't heard of VZ. I think they started as like a, an alternate container VM type technology. I don't really know much about them, but except for now they're advertising VZ Linux as a new role rebuild. For them, I, I like watching the club wars. From the perspective, we, we absolutely enjoy it because the more the bigger the rail family, the bigger the pie, the bigger, the more we all benefit. And the more potential contributors that we can have in descent to a stream making rail better and thus making all of the rebuilds better. And everyone benefits from the packages that we have an apple and can contribute there. Yep. The, the first clone wars. I, you know, I was a major part of that and this one's totally different. So, and yet the same. More things change the more they stay the same. Yep. I'm curious which ones will come out on top. Well, I'm totally fine with ending things early if people are okay with that. In the chat or Q, Q and a. Thank you for attending. And again, mohan has a talk right after this talking about how our proposal to do. Apple next nine to Apple nine. And I'll be there to see that. And after that, some good looking guys going to be talking about Apple and KDE. Well, it was good to see you guys. I hope you have a good week. I'm going off to go deal with some house stuff. Have a good day. Bye.