 Hey everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. In this episode, they talk about fat, phobia, and other lies that may be keeping you fat, sick, and unhealthy. You are eating more than you are moving, and you want to justify that. It is literally that simple. It is a justification for your behaviors. Stop it. Get some help. This is a controversial episode made me a bit squeamish at times, but they speak the truth. If you want short clips from this show, go to Mind Pump Clips right here on YouTube and subscribe. All right. Enjoy the show. There's a new enemy in the fitness space, and it's victimhood. You got to shed the victim mentality, or you will not succeed. Today's episode, we're going to talk about all the different ways that try to manipulate you and to make you feel like a victim so that you stay fat, sick, unhealthy, and sad. Changing Sal, getting canceled on Instagram wasn't enough for you. Buckle up. I'm annoyed. There's more. Hell. There's this movement, and it started, at first it was kind of like small, and I talked about it a little bit on the show maybe a year or two ago. I think we did an episode called Woke Fitness, about woke fitness, where we kind of pointed it out, but it was small enough to where people, I even got messages from people who were like, that's not really happening. I don't see that. Yeah. I thought it was parody when you sent it over before. I was like, this has to be from the onion or one of those kind of publications. No, I can see, now it's starting to grow to the point where it's starting to gain attention from all people, from people who believe it, people who are against it. And I'm not going to look, I'm going to be quite honest. The fitness and health wellness space has always been filled with bullshit, right? It's always had a lot of bad information. That's why we started this podcast. But this type of information is the worst. It's the worst because it's insidious. It preys on people's empathy and it prevents people from even taking that first step. So the other lies make people do the wrong thing, work out too hard, try fad diets, all bad, all bad. We've crushed all those, but this is different. It's more insidious. And it's going to actually demonize everything that's right about the fitness space through telling outright lies and making people feel good about feeling bad, which is not a good thing. How conspiratorial do you guys get when you see this happening right now? You're trying not to, but I think it's one of those things you just, what's the motivation? To me, it's just some kind of, to include politics in so much of our lives these days, I think it's advantageous now to really kind of move people one side or the other. In any kind of regard, it's like they're going to get votes because they're polarizing people so much. You know, I know I give you guys a hard time about that stuff and I normally just like let it roll. Like the whole, like politics got into my football, they got into my basketball, I was sour about it for a little bit, felt better about it after about a year or two and I felt like it got a little bit better at least. But now they're coming after fitness, man. And like now I feel a little more irritated than I did before because it's already been, I feel like our whole career kind of an uphill battle to make people feel comfortable to take that first big step of taking action. It's hard enough. Yeah, exactly. And so if now we have, and so then it makes you wonder, right? We know that in politics it's ideal to divide us, right? Divide us so they can conquer and steer the narrative and stuff like that. So obviously us being weak is also advantageous for that too. Oh, okay. So you're hitting the nail on the head in my opinion. So first off, what's the motivation? Well, it's always to make money. So that's always number one. So how can I sell people things? And making people feel divided and victimized, especially when I provide a solution is a great way to make money. So there's that. But then there's also what you said, Adam, which is people when they don't feel empowered are very easily manipulated. And fitness is a pursuit of self-empowerment. Anybody who's done it for a long time will tell you this. If you've done it for longer than five years, especially if you've done it for longer than 10 years, it's extremely empowering because it's a journey of failure and success. It's a journey of self-acceptance. It's a journey of, you know, accepting what you can control, what you can't control of hard work and effort and what you get in return. It's a journey of discipline. It's a journey of self-mastery. And somebody who feels very empowered, who feels very in control of themselves, who feels like they have self-mastery, or at least they have the tools to accomplish a certain level of self-mastery, well, it's going to be hard to manipulate me. It just is. If you're on a stage telling me how I need all these other things that you're going to offer me in order to feel good or comfortable or safe, or you're telling me all these other people are the reason why I have all these problems and I feel empowered, I'm going to look at you and be like, that's not true. And no, I'm not good. I don't like that message because I feel good about myself. I feel good about what I'm doing. And so it makes people very easily manipulated. And it's a fact, by the way, if you think about it this way, are you when you feel confident, happy, healthy, are you more or less likely to fall for scams? Are you more or less likely to believe that someone who has a different opinion is evil versus just differing opinion? What kind of lens and filter do you see the world through when you're healthy, strong, and confident? And this is all, of course, within context. You might not be strong on that guy, but you yourself feel that particular way. Now let's do the flip. How do you feel when you're sick? I mean, when I have a cold, I'm negative. Just the cold makes me feel. You're just down. Yeah. Your overall energy, your thought process, you're kind of like, you want to be in isolation a lot of times. You don't want to be around people. So that's just commonly, if I don't feel good, I'm not necessarily projecting my best self. Yes. And there's not a single drug or combination of drugs or medical intervention that comes close to improving your health when it comes to your mental state. Things like depression, anxiety, fears, confidence. They improve better through exercise, nutrition, through feeling empowered, through taking control of certain things. They improve better, and they continue to improve long term, better than any other medical intervention we have. Here's the problem. It's all of it, or most of it's free, right? So there's not like a product that I'm buying. There's not like a drug that I'm buying. So that's where I think the root is of this. And then politicians are smart, because what they do is they find areas of the culture where they can demonize and they can control. And fitness is open now. It's prime. And they're showing now this might be a great place for them to permeate. So how much does your guys' head explode when, you know, Johnson and Johnson and Pfizer come up with some breakthrough drug that, you know, stops fat gain or eviscerates fat better than any supplement on the market, and it's patented by them? Yeah. And then the government comes out as encouraging everybody to take that instead. I mean, how much do you freak out when that happens? You know why? Let's just pretend, for example, this won't happen, but let's just pretend they did invent the perfect drug for that. It keeps you lean and there's zero side effects, which would never exist. But let's just say zero side effects, you just take a pill, you can eat whatever you want. Don't have to exercise and you're lean. Is that going to give you all the benefits of the journey through exercising, eating right, creating a better relationship with exercise and nutrition, creating a better relationship with yourself? All the things that happen on the fitness journey. No, you're not going to learn any of those disciplines. It's the difference between being flown to the top of a mountain versus climbing it. Yeah, you still get the same view, I guess, but is it really the same experience? Do you really become the same person? No. So when that drug comes out, which I think at some point it will, although I think there'll be side effects, I think there'll be all kinds of other stuff, I'll be happy because people will take it, it will take a while, but people will take it and then be like, why am I not feeling all the benefits that I've always heard about being fit and healthy? Like what's going on? And then we'll be able to be like, well, here's why. I wonder if that's what you'll get from it. If it is, to me, that's a long curve. That's going to take a while. Long curve. Yeah, it's going to be, I don't feel like it would step us back 15, 20 years. At first, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Part of me is like it just feels like a natural progression of over decades of us trying to solve anything that's hard, right? Like if I can get to point A to point B faster, more efficiently, you know, that's sort of the trajectory that we're always trying to achieve with any kind of technology advancement, any kind of education, like how can I get there quicker? How can I retain all this, you know, faster? How can I get what I used to work decades for in just a few weeks? Justin, that is the key right there. There is no point A and point B with fitness. There is no point, there is no point B. It's the getting to points along the way that you can arbitrarily create, but it's the journey. It's the process where you get all the value and you talk to anybody again, if you're watching or listening to this and you know somebody who's exercised and ate right and it's really something that they prioritize for like 10 years or more, ask them and they'll tell you this, they'll tell you this 100%. So, so that's just it. What's it is that people think it's the end result where they're going to get the value. There's a little value in that, right? You're healthier, I guess, physically and a lot of stuff, but it's not really most of the value at all. It's everything along the way. All right, here's the giveaway for today's episode, MAPS Starter. This is a great beginner program for somebody just getting started with strength training. Here's how you can win for free. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode, subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications, do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you in the comment section that you won free access to MAPS Starter. Also, we got a sale going on right now. MAPS Symmetry 50% off, MAPS Strong 50% off. If you're interested in getting that discount on those two very popular great strength training programs, make sure you click on the link at the top of the description below to get set up. All right, here comes the show. Let's talk about some of these big lies that have been promoted and pushed that are so dangerous to everything that we try to do. And by the way, for people who don't know, if you're new to this podcast, the three of us collectively have worked with and trained people and coached people and managed gyms, and essentially we've been trying to help people solve this issue for themselves, the issue of poor health, obesity, you know, poor mobility pain, that kind of stuff, for collectively over 60 years. So we've made a careers out of this, and it's only recently we've made good careers out of it. For a long time, we worked hard and in industry where it's hard to make a lot of money. So it wasn't money driven, it was definitely passion driven first. So this is our big passion. But let's start with the first one. The first one is the message of health at any size or health at every size. Now, I get the core of it, which is you can be overweight and be healthier or be overweight and less healthy, okay? But the way that they're spinning it and using it is to say that the same person at a decent or should I say appropriate body weight or body fat percentage would have the same health than if they were 50 pounds or 100 pounds overweight. That's not true at all, it's false. Being obese by itself is a health risk factor, regardless of all the other things. So this is a terrible message. There's no such thing as being healthy and being obese. You'll be healthier, all things being considered at a more acceptable or appropriate body weight. I think a lot of the points that you had written down, I think they started off with good intentions. Like if you get on, there's a website for the health at health at every size. I forget what it's called. But they have like basically their breakdown or their mission statement or whatever. And there's not a lot I disagree with at all, reading that. In fact, I don't think I disagreed with anything when I read it. But what's unfortunate, and I don't know how common this is, and this is more a political thing, I feel like, and you would know this, like how often does a movement get hijacked? Like somebody who is great at manipulating something sees an opportunity that, oh wow, this is gaining traction, let me adopt it early. I'm going to use this to do this. And so I think a lot of... You want to astratize it? Yeah, when I look at the things that you wrote down, I feel the same way that you do too. But then I also feel like I can remove myself a little bit and go like, okay, at the core of these, I think, I want to believe they started with good intentions and then they've been hijacked and turned. I think some of them started with the kernel of truth. Some of them are complete and utter lies. But I think the health at every size, that specific one started with a kernel of truth, which is, yes, and I used to talk to, like I worked with clients for a long time we struggled with being overweight. Some of them never got to their ideal body weight. Some of them struggled with it the entire time I trained them. However, their health still dramatically improved. So there's definitely truth that if you're overweight or obese, but you're exercising and you still made some changes into your nutrition, you still made some lifestyle change, just not enough to lose all the weight. So you're still overweight. You're gonna be healthier than if you made did nothing. And I think too, it was sort of backlash to a lot of the models they're portraying. Good idea. Back in the day, you get all these cover model fitness people that were super shredded or girls that were very thin and lean and that being the ideal body type they kept portraying. So it was sort of a pushback on that into, because we've never really hit that happy medium of health like what that really looks like in terms of marketability. So they went to the other extreme of that to try and include a lot of people that didn't feel included, but yeah, I think it just got totally bastardized. If there was a picture of a pro bodybuilder on a magazine and it said, this is healthy, it would be just as preposterous even though they're big and shredded, it would be just as preposterous as what I'm seeing where they have somebody who's clinically obese there's now been several magazine covers or articles or whatever with this where they have an obese individual and it says this is healthy. It's just as preposterous, both are very unhealthy, both are extreme. I think the kernel of truth they stand on is, and I'm sure you guys can think of a scenario where this has happened in your career. I mean, I definitely remember, there's been times where I've had a client who is 40, 50 pounds overweight and she was healthier than the little skinny model girl that I trained. Right. I mean, so there's examples of that. You just brought up a good point, which is when it comes to health, there's a lot of individual factors being played and you're right. Comparing yourself to someone else is not an appropriate comparison. You really can't, you don't know what's going on. Someone can even have perfect physical body fat percentage, look good, but really be in poor health because of mental issues and stuff like that. This is how they defend that though. So you know, because there are examples of that. There is an example of a client I had who just carries 50 pounds overweight, she over consumes food on a regular basis, but she trains hard and she trains athletic so she could run, she could jump, she could squat good weight and just. Maybe she's got good relationships in life and she gets good sleep. But then you're right, but then she's still overweight by 50 pounds. But if I had met the other girl that I was giving an example of was a aspiring supermodel girl who used to starve her body, used to do cocaine, used to do, and just a terrible race of food, doing drugs, and yet the average person would see those two people and go, oh, she's the skinny girl, is probably. So I get that argument, but it's still not a good representation of what true health looks like because then there's the other element of if you're carrying that much extra body fat on you, there is a part of you that's not, you're not being honest with yourself if you're saying that I'm the healthiest I could be. Are you in better shape than what you were when you were 100 pounds overweight or are you in better shape than the coked out girl who's starving herself? Arguably yes. But I don't think that you're a true representation of health and positioning it that way, I think is a danger. And the reason why that's such a disingenuous comparison is you have to, you can only, to have an accurate comparison, you can only compare yourself to yourself because me versus someone else, first of all, I can't judge them 100% on how they look. There's a few things you can look at and say, okay, well, that person may overeat, that person may under eat, whatever, but you can't really make a comparison. But what I can say is if you have the same person in two scenarios doing the same things, the only difference is one version of them is at a body weight that's appropriate, and the other version of them is 50 pounds higher than that in body fat, the 50 pounds higher body fat's gonna have worse health. So the reason why this is such a damaging and the way that they're twisting it and pushing it, the reason why it's so damaging is it's telling a bunch of people that obesity doesn't matter. Yeah. That obesity isn't a risk factor for health. It's just not honest. It's not honest, it's a big lie. And what's happening, what I'm seeing is this false self-love movement from it. Oh, I love myself, that's why I eat this food. That's why I'm overweight. This is me loving myself. You know, you're not loving yourself. You might feel good because you're not feeling bad about yourself, but you're not actively loving yourself. You're still making yourself healthy. Let's just say that's step one, right? So yes, I do agree with the sentiment of loving yourself. And I think that if we get into fitness and health and we're motivated to go on that journey, it should be motivated on behalf of you loving yourself and improving yourself and wanting the best for yourself and being the optimal version of yourself. And all that happens through the journey in the process of refining that through fitness and health practices. But we can't just stopping there is it's not being honest with yourself. And it's really not loving yourself because you're not really continually trying to address these things and to love yourself by focusing on the work that goes into these reactions. We talked about this in the relationship conversation. Love's not a feeling, it's an action. You're not taking action on something that would be truly loving yourself. And that would be taking care of your health, being healthier. So yeah, no, I'm not a fan. And I think that this has been exaggerated because it's as a marketing ploy. Yes, you could sell people, man. When you sell them that they're, this is why I get so annoyed is the very people that I've made a career out of helping sincerely trying to help. It's hard not to get emotional when I talk about it because this is something I care very deeply about. These same people are being manipulated so hard. And I get mad when they get manipulated in all kinds of different directions. The fitness and health space has done it so many different ways. Diet pills and crazy workouts and all that stuff. But boy, this one is really bad because it preys on their empathy. It makes them feel like victims. And then they wanna do nothing about what's going on. And because they've been lied to so poorly. It actually deters them from pursuing a lot of times of fitness in general. Yes, the next one, here's the next one. This is a term and this is what people love to do. This is what these people like to do. People that like to either political move, these, I guess, political propagandists or people who try to come up with terms to manipulate people as they invent terms. Fatphobia is one of those things. First of all, a phobia. Can we get the definition of that? Yeah, what is a phobia? Just look at what is a phobia? No, just give me fat phobia. Well, no, just look at phobia because phobia is like a clinical term. It's different. I don't like spiders, but do I have a clinical phobia against spiders? No, right? Very different. So what they're doing is they're trying to say, well, people who are trying to get you to lose weight are fatphobic. Okay? That's like saying a cancer doctor who's trying to get you to get rid of cancer is cancerphobic. Or somebody's trying to help you get, well, heart disease is heart disease phobic. Did an actual psychologist come up with this term? No. Because otherwise it's invalid. It is. Here it is. It's not a real word. An extreme or a rational fear or aversion to something. So if I'm trying to help someone lose weight, which means I'm actually trying to help them and work with them, do I have an extreme or a rational fear or aversion? That doesn't make me a phobic. You know, fatphobic. But what they say is, oh, if you're not, if you try to get people to lose weight, you're fatphobic. Gyms are full of fatphobic people. If you're trying to lose weight yourself, you have your own fatphobia. This is so terrible, because it's pathologizing the process of improving your health, which is crazy. Read it, Sal. Read it, let's just say. Oh, weight basis, sometimes also called fat, excuse me, weight bias, sometimes also called fatphobia or weight stigma describes the negative attitudes and stereotypes surrounding and attached to larger bodies. This is totally written by- They've totally made that up. They really just shoehorned something into a phobia. I've actually heard people in a clinical condition all of a sudden. I've heard people say, if you don't want to date someone that's overweight, it's because you're fatphobic, seriously. It's like, I don't want to date, you know, I don't want to date tall guys. Well, I guess I'm short phobic or something like that. Yeah, you just add phobic to anything. First off, excess body fat is a very visual, and this may be one of the challenges of being overweight, is that it's a very visual representation of your health not being ideal. So naturally, we're gonna have, we're not gonna feel as attracted to people in this particular way, just like someone with really bad skin, someone whose teeth are really bad, or someone who looks like they're sick, okay? That's the reason why- There's visible displays of not being healthy. That's the root of it. Now that's no excuse for treating people like shit. That's no excuse for not being nice to people for being an asshole or a jerk. So if somebody's a jerk to you because you're overweight or uses that as an excuse to be a jerk, well, they're an asshole. But fatphobia, they invented that. They created, I don't even think that existed before they started making it up. I mean, maybe it did in a very small percentage, but have you guys ever met someone that's really? No, no. Fatphobic, that you would say, oh my God, you have this irrational fear? No, I mean, claustrophobia, like I know a couple of people that have that for real, and like have just been in somewhat tight space situations and like had panic attack, like serious, serious, you know, like it's a condition, a serious condition. So this is completely me. If you were really fatphobic, you wouldn't be able to go anywhere because there's fat people everywhere. You'd be like, ah! You'd be like, run! You wouldn't be able to go to Disneyland. You wouldn't be able to go to the movies. You would not be able to go down to Walmart. Oh my God. You wouldn't be able to go anywhere. You wouldn't live in America. You wouldn't be able to go anywhere if you were truly fatphobic. If you were scared like you're scared of spiders and scared of those things like that, that's irrational. You would freak out every time you got into any of the places. There's no, there's nowhere where you see everybody's super fit. Even the gym is full of that. Oh my God. In the gym, you're gonna see quite a few people that are overweight because they're trying to improve their health. Stupid. The reason why this is, again, so such a terrible message is it's telling people themselves who are trying to improve their health that they're somehow fatphobic or they somehow fall into this category of these terrible people that are against larger bodies or whatever, which is very, very strange in a twisted way of manipulating people. It's a weird way to provide somebody a word to shut down any kind of like conversation you might be having with somebody. Like some kind of like disagreement. I've noticed that a lot. And we're in this sort of world now where like you get into comment sections and back and forth with people and like it's even harder to have honest conversations because terms all of a sudden will get thrown out if they don't like what you have to say. And then it just shuts down the conversation. It's just a way to justify your behavior. It is a scientific fact. You are eating more than you are moving and you want to justify that. That's simple. It is literally that simple. It is a justification for your behaviors. Your behaviors have led to 30, 40, 50. And the doctor that wants to tells you to lose weight because he sees your blood lipids and he wants you to lose weight for your health. Well, he's just fatphobic. I actually saw that by the way. I've seen people say, you know, easy that is to use and just shuts it down. Shuts it down. Oh, my doctor told me to lose weight. He says I'm 100 pounds overweight. They're fatphobic. I'm gonna find another doctor. I actually saw the whole thing on that. And there was actually people supporting them, which is crazy. It's like, well, that's what a doctor is supposed to do is tell you how to improve or decrease your chance of dying. By the way, you can, I know what I just said. I know a guarantee is gonna irritate some people, but you can be that way and I can still be empathetic to that person. I mean, 90% of the conversation that we have on this podcast is around behaviors and helping people and admitting to our own behaviors that we struggle with and how to overcome that and work on that and improve that. And it's a lifelong journey in pursuit. So I have tremendous empathy for somebody who struggles with those things, but to deny it and ignore it and to then potentially blame it on other people is not going to help you. It is not gonna make- It's gonna hurt you. It's not gonna make your life any more rich by doing that or healthy by acting that way. And it actually demonizes, this is the part that really hurts my feelings, to be quite honest, is it demonizes the very people who make a career out of helping people in this situation. By the way, we don't help people- Renters us powerless. Yeah, I wanna be like, straight up, like we don't help people by walking up to random people who are obese and saying, I'm here to help you. It doesn't work that way. I know that, I know that. I'm not gonna do that. It's gotta be a trainer who's tried that though. Right, well, that's so stupid. It's not gonna work. Here's my card. It's not gonna work. Like I help people who came and seek help, right? But they did seek help and I was very empathetic and I understand the struggle and it's challenging. I had my own body image issues just in the opposite direction. So I totally get it. But Fatphobia has made up, doesn't exist. It's another way to manipulate you into buying products or going in a particular political direction. Here's the next one. This one's, I've talked about this one many times, but that's the myth that gyms are these judgmental, unaccepting places. So like you're gonna walk into this gym, you're overweight and everybody in there's gonna look at you and be like, what are you doing here? You don't belong in here, get out of here, don't touch my equipment. Wow, look at that woman, she's so fat. Look at that guy, he doesn't look good or whatever. This is terrible because there's actually zero, there's not even a kernel of truth in this. Gyms are the most accepting places in the world for people who are struggling with weight. The most accepting. I mean, this is the perfect example of like judging a book by its cover or coming in with narratives you created in your own mind. Who's being judgmental? And expecting that as to be the result. And I noticed like, I mean, anybody's guilty of this. Like I'm guilty of this of just creating and portraying thoughts and other people that I think they're thinking of me. And this is just sort of adding gasoline to that. And it's justifying this sort of idea, this insecurity you have that's coming in when in fact, it's not actually reality. Like being in that environment is a very embracing environment where people actually care about improving and want you to be a part of it. Remember when they did that reality show? I remember being so irritating. Like that would never even happen right there. They did this reality show. Do you remember this, Justin? It was like a hidden camera. Yeah, it was like a hidden camera and they staged like two people. It was like these two girls making fun of this. And they were intentionally like gossiping about somebody else. Like it was like somebody who was overweight. And this was in a gym. It was in a gym. And what they were seeing was who would say something with someone like, and so I remember hating it because I remember going like, you're already representing the gym. Like that's like a normal thing to happen. So the real, the study or what they were trying to see was like if these two people were gossiping about this other overweight person that was trying to work out, would somebody chime in and say something or do something? And you know what's funny? It happened so fast. People jumped in. It was like literally whoever was next to them would walk up to them and tell them off. It was like, and that's what the host said. Yeah, but still though, I didn't even like it because that never would happen. I've been in gyms for 20 years. Artificial years produced situations. And so I would think statistically speaking, I would probably have a really good chance of seeing that at least a handful of times if it even happens at a small fraction of the, I've never seen two girls gossiping loud enough to where I could hear them about somebody who's overweight trying to work out. Never. Oh my God, I'll tell you something right now. If you want to get, if you want to have threats of violence, here's something that you go into a gym and make fun of another person trying to improve themselves. And you wait and see how the other members, especially the seasoned consistent members, how fast they get on you and kick you out of that gym. So do you guys think that, okay, I'm gonna ask an unpopular potential question or that may lead to an unpopular answer, I should say. We early on, we came out and really hammered shreds if you've been with us long enough. And Justin used to make fun of Joey Swoll all the time. He has recently revived his stardom or fandom or whatever you want to call it. Oh, he's like the defender of people in the gym. So do you think, I want to hear your opinions on this. Do you think it is a good or a bad thing, what he is doing? Oh, I haven't watched enough of them. Yeah, describe it to me. I guarantee one of his last videos. You know what he does? He's like somebody who made a video. He's the shamer. Yeah. So I'm asking you guys, because I'm wondering if, because it's obviously right in this wheelhouse of gyms or judgmental, except what he does is he finds somebody else. So here's where it's partly damaging, partly because he's pushing the narrative that gyms are unaccepting that they're these judgmental, terrible places. If you're out of shape and you're a beginner and you don't know what you're doing, it's partially good because he's also saying, hey, this is unacceptable. But it does push that narrative, doesn't it? I mean, the other people that pushed this narrative that are in our space, which makes me mad is Planet Fitness. Planet Fitness' entire marketing was around gyms that didn't have bodybuilders and judgmental people. And we have an alarm in the gym that goes off. And if there's a, it's a lunk alarm, in fact, they call it. And I hated that because it painted gyms in the wrong way. And now it was brilliant marketing. It got a lot of people sign up, but it promoted this idea and this myth. And again, it's a fact like, in fact, the most accepting gyms are the most hardcore gyms. This is something a lot of people don't know. If you've never worked out and, or you don't have a lot of experience in gyms, the most intimidating gyms are the hardcore ones. I mean, you walk in, people are serious. Everybody looks super focused. The equipment, like there's chalk on the floor maybe. Maybe there's angry music in the background or maybe not. Maybe it's just quiet. Some of these places are quiet. People listen to old music. People are grunting and sweating and it's intimidating. Okay, here's the irony. That's the most accepting gym because everybody in the area is super seasoned, super hardcore. And if you walk in there and you're a beginner, go up to anybody in there and be like, hey, can someone help me use this machine? Or I wanna lose weight, what should I do? And you'll get a bunch of free, really good advice. That's less likely to happen in those big global gyms. It's just true. Which is the irony, right? People think the hardcore ones are the most judgmental. They're the least. Well, I mean, and it's just, it's purely a numbers game too though, right? If you're a plant of fitness and you're $9 a month, you're getting 2,000 workouts a day, probably plus. If you're in one of those hardcore gyms, you've got 50 workouts in the day and those 50 people are probably hardcore serious people who appreciate somebody trying and so it would probably be very much more community driven and something like that. Where, I mean, it's like a cash cow in one of those places. And that's unfortunate because what a lot of gyms don't realize is one asshole, but who is probably even a new person themselves being rude to another person like that. Now that gym has this stigma of like, oh, these people are fat phobic or these people are judgmental. But it's funny, right? Because we've all managed gyms. Who were the members that were the coolest, nicest, friendliest, to new members, yes. Yeah, yeah, for sure. The most consistent people. But this is a terrible myth because it keeps people from walking into gyms because they're like, oh yeah, gyms, those places, like people are gonna make fun of me. People are gonna look at me. People are gonna, people in my own family felt like this. I had to convince my mom to go to a gym recently over stuff like this. And that's my mom. I've been in this space forever. And now she realizes, oh my God, gyms are not what I thought they were. So a terrible myth, not true whatsoever. And I think, again, they're trying to keep people easily manipulatable. Here's another one. And this one I actually have, there was actually some legislative action that went behind this myth. So it's the myth that building muscle makes men jerks or toxic. There was legislation around this? Yeah. What? Yes, there was. So I don't know if you guys remember this, but California prisons, first of all, prisons historically had weight pits. That was the reason why they got it out, was that? They took them out because they said they didn't want the prisoners to be big, strong, and aggressive. That's how they sold it. Oh, I thought like dudes were really getting their heads bashed in with dumbbells. Well, but you know, I thought what was happening. Okay, so basically these heavy weapons we should probably, you know. You know what that can happen? However, when you talk to people that work in that industry, one of the, and we'll get into this, but one of the benefits of having like a weight pit is you can take it away. Like when you're in prison, you got nothing. Yeah, right. But when you're allowed to work out and you're there for 10 years, like you don't wanna break the rules in there. You wanna keep working out in your gym. That's the thing you look forward to. That's an interesting thought to me because if you're taking away for them to have any kind of like self-improvement and independence. It's like taking away the library. Yeah, how much more animosity are you gonna get in return for that? More depression. It'd be interesting to actually see if after they got it pulled, if there was anybody who actually went back to do some homework. Yeah, was there a reduction in violence? Yeah. I doubt it. I bet you not. It'll be a really interesting thing. You know, Arnold, they did this in Pumping Iron. Arnold used to travel to gyms and do free seminars and stuff. Like self-improvement tools like education, exercise, like that kind of stuff, spiritual practices, those should be encouraged in prisons. So it was, to me, when they took them out, it was such a big deal to me because I'm like, that's the dumbest. Why would you do that? Like they need an outlet and they need to feel empowered in some way. And I met a lot of, by the way, I've employed a lot of ex-felons who found their way through fitness. They started working out and that's how they found their way through fitness. It's such a good point that Justin makes. So it's like, you would think that actually, the more things that the inmates gravitate towards that you potentially could restrict them from if they're not behaving correctly would be, I would think it would be more of an asset to you keeping the place. Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? Like the basketball court, I know they do have a battle, like no more basketball today because you guys were, you know, acting like idiots last time. And so it's like, that gets everybody in line. You keep taking away the things that they have as outlets. And then I would think that that would be just harder to manage. Yeah, what else are you gonna take away? Yeah. And honestly, I think it was because it made inmates easier to control because they're more depressed, more sick, more whatever, and not as big and not as strong and not as intimidating. And a lot of some of these, see, look, I'm not. Shit, what if they really knew that? Maybe that was their intention was that they're easier to be controlled because they're sick, they're weak and depressed versus if they feel independent, strong and empowered. Now, aside from that, because that's kind of like a side, you know, conversation, generally speaking, the process of building muscle which requires discipline, patience, acceptance, failure because if this doesn't work, that doesn't work. Like it doesn't make men toxic. It makes men better, okay? Now, can you have a toxic jerk who's big and muscular? Of course you can. Of course you can. But that's the exception, not the rule. The toxicity, the anger issues, the stuff like that tends to improve in people who pursue pursuits of self growth, right, of personal growth. And fitness and building muscle is just a part of that. Let's talk about mental health. Like what does that look like for somebody that isn't pursuing anything like weight training to help them get stronger and healthier and be in a better mindset, you know, in general. I mean, I hate to bring up like shooters, but like I would wonder about that in terms of toxic masculinity, like on somebody that's weaker and feels a little bit more victimized and then they wanna do something about it versus somebody that's strong, you know, and able-bodied. That's 100%. You know, I've heard it said before, if you think strong men are dangerous. I'm more, yeah, concerned about weak men. A weak man, right? So no, no, no, building muscle doesn't make men toxic jerks. It doesn't make women toxic jerks. It improves people, but they still exist. The toxic shitty people exist at all sides of the spectrum. All right, next, this one's funny and I read an article on this the other day and there's actually several articles now I've read on this, which is that fitness and gyms lead to, of all things, alt-right political leanings, which is really crazy. Now- The truth is it's a reverse correlation, right? So what they have found is they done research on people that work out and they tend to lean to the right or towards a libertarian, right? Right, right, so what they found- Not alt-right, they got moved into alt-right. The middle of the spectrum. But I mean, that's where that, I think that where the data comes from. Studies have found that as men become physically stronger, they're more likely to lean conservative. And there's some theories as to why, by the way, there's an unhealthy and unhealthy conservativism. So just like there's a healthy and unhealthy liberalism. So don't twist them. Like when you think conservative, you don't think just the toxic, like the shitty sides or whatever, there's healthy versions of it. But really what it is is at its core, especially when you talk about like libertarianism, which is like, you know, kind of original, that original, in fact, it was called classical liberalism. Now it's referred to as more conservative. But when you look at, you know, people, as people become more empowered, they're less likely to want government to do things for them or to control things for them. And so this is just part of that process. As you do things to improve your health, as you do things and you feel more in control of things, you're less likely to want, you know, people impeding on what you're doing or whatever. So that's what they find. And that's why this got pushed in that direction. Let me ask you that. So if that's true, does that mean that entrepreneurs compared to W2 employees are entrepreneurs at a higher rate, right? Yep. Is that true? Because that would make, because you're obviously, if you are controlling your paycheck and deciding your work hours, you're a more empowered person, you've decided to go down that path. And the opposite is true. If you work for corporate America and you have to show up when someone tells you, you have a boss who ever sees you, you're less empowered, it's just a fact. So are people who are entrepreneurs more right-leaning at a higher rate to compare to? Yeah, I remember the right-left spectrum is like really twisted now. But yes, generally, but it depends on the space. There's huge. I didn't know that. Things depending on the space, like higher education tends to be over here and blue collar tends to be over there. But nonetheless, all fitness does is it makes people feel more empowered. And so they're less likely to feel like they need to vote for politicians who are gonna promise them things or protect them from things or take things away in order to keep them safe, that kind of stuff. But there is no, it's not about alt-right. In fact, alt-right, which is very unhealthy and toxic, if people pursue improving themselves, they're probably less likely to be in that kind of toxic space. All right, here's the next one. This one's funny to me, which is, and I've heard people tell me this, which is that gyms are only for privileged people, right? Because oh, you can go to the gym. Plant a fitness to care of that. Yeah, I was gonna say, there's not as an option. I mean, do you drink one Starbucks coffee a month and you're almost at the same price as what plant- That's why it makes me laugh, is because gyms, man, access to a gym is so cheap. Let me tell you a little, I guarantee you, both have stories like this. I remember at every gym that I managed, okay, I had several members that were homeless that would pay for a gym membership. So they could use a shower or something. So they could use a shower, the soap and all things like that because they saved money by having a gym membership to be able to shower and wash their body through the gym. I signed up several. Yes, I did. I lived in RVs and would come in and use our facility. And that's not even, I mean, yeah, plant a fitness, which is $9. I'm talking about this. Yeah, when we were doing 30 bucks a month. Yeah, 20, 30 bucks a month. So, yeah, this is such a tip. Now, here's part of that. Okay, fine, at some point, I guess, it might be an expense you can't afford, which I totally get, even at $9 a month, okay. Fitness is not exclusive to gyms. There's lots of things you can do to improve your health and fitness through activity that requires zero equipment. They require nothing at all, just your body. We have whole programs designed around no equipment. So, this idea, again, is designed to divide people and to making people think, well, you know, gyms are just for those people over there that are privileged and they're not for you, which is not true. And by the way, I want to say one thing too, I've never been in an environment as accepting of different political leanings, different ways of living, different ways of, you know, who you like to hook up with. Just overall diversity in general. Gyms are incredible like that. Very diverse. I was talking to, so Father Steve is a priest, he's a friend of mine, and he told me one of the things he loves the most about the gym is he goes, man, when we're in the gym and we're all squatting or deadlifting or pressing and everybody's like, motivating each other, he goes, nobody gives a shit who you voted for. Nobody cares, you know, who you like to sleep with. Nobody cared. We're all there like trying to improve ourselves through this thing called fitness. So it's super, it's interesting to me that they're trying to be able to prove it. This was really interesting to me too, because I guarantee you where, no matter where you live in the country, so long as there is a gym there, right? Obviously there's some places that don't have gyms for, you know, an hour, two hours away or whatever. But if you have a, you know, local gym in the area and you get an opportunity to meet the manager or the owner of that facility, and $9 a month is what's keeping you from getting access there. And you come to him and say, listen, I just, I don't have access to the money. I don't have, but I want to work out so bad. What is there anything I could do around here? Oh God. To get a free membership. I'll sweep your floors, I'll take out your trash. I did that. I guarantee, I did too. Yep. When I had people that I could tell we're in a position that they couldn't, and so I know most gym owners are like this. A gym owner is not going to be made or rich. Broken. Or broken from $9 more or less a month. And seeing somebody who genuinely cannot afford access there and is willing to work or do something to help out, just to get free access. They have the power to write a free pass and they'll do it every single month if that person is being honest and is trying to help out. I gave a guarantee. I gave a free pass to someone like that. And then they were so great for the culture of the gym because they were so positive and so motivated and just such great people. I just kept hooking them up. That's real gym culture. That's real gym culture. That's the truth by the way. And I ran some of the most successful money-making gyms and one of the largest fitness organizations. And that was it. And by the way, successful gym owners understand culture and the culture is so opposite of some of the stuff that we're talking about. Oh yeah, way opposite. Here's another one. Eating healthy is much more expensive than eating unhealthy or eating healthy is privileged. This is terrible. This is a terrible myth because eating healthy is actual. There's ways to do it that are actually easy and will save you money. They'll save you money over processed fast food garbage. 100%. For example, we've done whole episodes on this. In fact, maybe we can link one of them, but rice. Rice is extremely inexpensive, great source of complex carbohydrates, easy to digest. There's one. Dry beans, another great source of complex carbohydrates, also source of fiber, also source of some plant protein. Very inexpensive, long shelf life, easy to prepare. Tuna. Tuna fish. By the way, you could buy this at 7-Eleven. Tuna fish, milk, eggs, frozen bulk chicken, frozen bulk ground beef. Frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables, okay? All extremely inexpensive and you can find them almost anywhere. In fact, you can find a lot on the convenience stores, not even at grocery stores. So this whole idea that eating healthy is more expensive is totally false. Yeah, it doesn't have to be all organic and farm raised and all these buzz terms out there. Which the further along in your journey and you can afford some of those things and to get up your quality, sure. But in terms of the big movers, what you just mentioned is very accessible and you can buy it in bulk and it's pretty cheap. This is another politicized thing to me. I mean, I never even heard of this until Whole Foods came around. Once Whole Foods became one of the more popular stores and everyone calls it Whole Paycheck because how expensive it is and stuff like that. Now all of a sudden it's like. Yeah, it'll be more expensive if you shop there. Yeah, and so now it's turned into only privileged people who can eat the healthiest grocery stores. It's just like you don't need the healthiest grocery store to be healthy. And you gave really good examples of some options that are ridiculously cheap, especially if you buy in bulk. You buy five pound bags of rice, five pound bags of beans. Those things you would save a ton of money. But the truth is, if you're overweight because you are in a quote unquote food desert, you just need to eat less. And your health will dramatically improve. Yeah, and your health will dramatically improve. Yeah, do exercises at home and eat less and you will dramatically change your health. Yeah, and by the way, we looked up the definition because I had never heard of that before, food desert. Food desert, yeah. And then someone brought it up and I'm like, what is that? They're like, oh, it's when people don't have access to healthy food. So I'm imagining like a city. We're hearing this a lot lately, so. Right, so I'm like, what is this and is this another like political term that's been used to sell things and kind of propaganda? I looked it up. Do you know what a food desert is? What's considered a food desert? This is a place and they label it as usually an urban, I'm a reader now, low income urban areas, which by the way, that's interesting that they include that, but that's fine, you'll see why. Low income urban areas where a significant number of people lives farther than, ready for this, a mile away from the nearest grocery store. Do any of you guys live close, less than a mile away from a grocery store? I don't. The closest grocery store to me is two miles away. So that's crazy that they would make that the definition and notice how they include low income urban areas. It's so they can make it sound like it's a much bigger problem than what it really is. You were talking about a very small minority of people. And by the way, I lived in like a true, what I would consider a food desert. I grew up, okay. Well, like when you were on the. Yeah, it was an hour and a half to the first grocery store. That's a real one. Yeah. And we had a gas station is where we had to get our food from or once every other week, we would drive into town, stock way up, put everything in a freezer and that's how we'd eat. So like, I get what it's like to be in a, like what I would consider a real food desert where you have to drive that. But that's why it's interesting. Notice how they put urban areas, urban or dense. And they include that less than a mile away. The truth is a real food desert, like you're like an hour away from food. Those places exist, but a majority of people live, you know, within five miles of a grocery store, but even convenience stores offer healthy options, healthier options. I mean, to me, it's just another way to feed in viable options. Feed into the oppression Olympics that we play all the time. It's just like, oh, here's one more thing that we can, we can marginalize and show all these people over here. It's just like, and again, you can have empathy for that, but then also call bullshit on the victimhood shit. Like, get out of that. Like it's not serving you to have that attitude of poor me, I'm in this situation. Cause you know what, if you have that attitude, you're gonna be in that situation forever. 100% agree, but it's, but again, this is one of those things where it's, there's actually no truth in it. Eating healthy, which, this is what eating healthy includes, okay? Eating less, okay, so eating less, it includes foods with less ingredients and less required processing typically, both of which cost money. In other words, if I eat more, I will necessarily spend more money. If I eat foods that require more processes to put together, I will necessarily spend more money when I'm comparing in the proper context. So like rice that's dry, one ingredient, it's got a long shelf life because it's dry in a bag, okay? So it's cheaper than rice chips or processed foods that contain rice, for example, okay? Dried corn, which dried corn also has long shelf life, is going to be cheaper than corn-based processed foods when you go on a calorie per calorie type of basis. So my point with this one is it's not just off, it's completely the opposite. And so what it does, and this is why it's so damaging, is people who are in situations where they do feel, they live in poverty where they do feel, man, things are tough, they're gonna hear this and they're gonna be like, there's nothing I can do. I have no options, I have no choices, I'm not empowered in a particular way, I'm helpless, and then what does that tend to breed? And again, people didn't even take that first step, which is infuriating. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin, Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump, Sal. This one's really important, and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps, and then three or four weeks of, let's say, 15 to 20 reps, and then they'll throw in some supersets, at the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury, that's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.