 You're welcome back. We're now joined by Mr. Victor S. Anya, a public affairs analyst. Good morning and welcome to the show, Mr. Anya. Good morning, Yango. It's safe to say happy new year to you because we haven't spoken this year, right? I'm fine, sir. Okay, well, we prayed and the prayers were answered as it were. The PVC extension is what a lot of people had hoped for and the prayers were granted. What do you think the few more days that have been added by INEC will do to the 2023 General Elections? Well, the extension is a good one, but I still have some fears because very soon the collection of PVC will be moved to the headquarters of the various local government areas. I should think that INEC should continue the distribution of the voters card at the world levels because when you get to some of the world levels, they are all filled up with people. People are struggling to get their PVC. So if it is moved to the headquarters of the 774 local government areas, it will be very difficult for all Nigerians that are willing to vote to get their PVC. That is my fear. So if INEC officials are listening to me, we advise them to continue with the distribution at the world level because if the world level was crowded, then you can imagine what will happen at the headquarters of the various local government areas. It will be very difficult for voters to get their PVC at the headquarters of the local government area. That is the problem. Okay, the world level, instead of stopping the collection at the world level on the 16th of this month, which is just a few days away, they have now moved it to 22nd, which was supposed to be the final collection date for the PVCs. So they moved the collection at the world level to the 22nd of January and now the final collection will end on the 29th. So moving it back to the local government headquarters will be from 23rd of January. Is that long enough for you? It's not long enough. What I'm saying is that I have been to some wards, you know, like a place they call Arjun. If a local government area also was there, the whole place was filled. The voters found it very difficult to get their PVC. So if they are finding it difficult to get their PVC at the world level, what do you think would happen on the next level? And a place like Arjun that I've just mentioned, it's there to it for local government area. You know, if we cost you about two hours to get to that place, but the roads are very, very bad, and the cost of transportation is high too. So how many Nigerians or how many people living in the country can afford the cost of about 3,000 to transport to that place on those bad roads? So these are the issues. So we are finding the effect of those. Voters are finding it difficult to get their PVC at the world level because they are usually crowded. So if it is moved to the headquarters of the local government area, you think it will be much easier. It will be much more difficult. That's why I say a station is good, but it's not good enough. They should continue with the distribution at the world level. That is what I'm saying. So that it will be much easier for Nigerians to be able to get their PVC because Nigerians are very anxious to vote in the hot country election because of the harsh, because of the insecurity, because of the hunger, because of the pain that Nigerians are going through. They don't want to continue with this suffering. So I make it much easier for them, for Nigerians to be able to actualize their desire to vote on the next election. Okay, I quite understand with you. Where I come from as well, it's a two hour journey to the local government headquarters and it will pay through the nose. I don't even want to start talking about the transport fare to the local government headquarters. So if we find these kind of places all over Nigeria, INEC, I hope you're listening. As you listen to us to do the extension, maybe till the final day of collection, you should just let it be at the world levels to ease, to make it easier for the people to collect. But Mr. Anya, my colleague and I are just concerned, are just not concerned, are just anxious to know what your concerns are as we enter into 2023, as we have entered into 2023 and getting closer and closer to the general election. If you can just mention some of your concerns as we are in the early days of this new year, then we'll take it from there. Let's start with the presidency. In 2015 to today, with just less than five months for them to exist, the governance is that all the money they are borrowing, all the budgets they have been making is to rehabilitate legacy by the express flow. That was built in 1978 by the military administration of Bahsajo, then the Second Niger Bridge, the Abuja Kaduna express flow. So if we have borrowed so much, how can the government be telling us that all this content of money is being spent on Second Niger Bridge, legacy by the express flow, then Abuja Kaduna express flow? I should think that this is worrisome because the economic government, this is a side of the humongous amount of money that have been recovered from the Abbasha Loot. All the loot they have recovered since 2015, we have been told that such money will be spent on the legacy by the express flow, Second Niger Bridge, and Abuja Kaduna express flow. So it won't begin to wonder, how can 77 trillion Lira be spent on just three projects? This is a side, the content of money that is being spent that have been recovered from Abbasha Loot. So as a citizen, I'm worried. I'm worried in the sense that I have children and I'm going to be a part of the best people that are going to pay this loan. And when my children grow up, they will continue to pay from where I'm going to exit this world. This is very, this is very challenging. This is very consigned, I'm consigned about this. So the incoming government will find it very difficult to get his own beer in the sense that 77 trillion is about a budget of this country for almost 10 years because the budget of this year now is about 20.5 trillion Lira. So if we are so much indebted to this amount of money, can we say with all honesty of purpose that the money was judicially used? Can we trace the procession tied to this money? The answer is no. The answer is capital no. So why should we go and be borrowing such money and you cannot trace a procession to such a amount of money? This is my worry. For this new year, we have just entered into, this is what I'll be thinking about because other countries, when they borrow, you see what they use the money for. But in our own case, we don't see what the money is being spent on. The money is being spent on frivolity. The president keeps traveling up and down. Up and down. In 2022, President Muhammad Buhari traveled 19 times to other countries. There is no other president in any other country that does this. It's only Buhari. The purpose of having ambassadors is for them to represent their president in the countries where they are resident. But in the case of Nigeria, it's not so. It is Buhari that must be in every event, whether the event is viable or not, he must be there. And that is why such amount of money is being spent on his travels. In Nigeria since I was born, I have never seen any British Prime Minister come here. It is only the head commissioner that represented the Prime Minister of Britain. But in our own case, it is not so. It is Buhari that must be everywhere. Why should he be so? So these are the things that are grouping the money. So those people, if they are listening to me, they should advise him that he should stay back home. He should stay back home. Some of those events that he is going, his ambassadors can represent him there and give him feedback. That is what other countries do. The foreign affairs minister can represent him. Not the president, it is entourage. Almost 100 people traveling all over the world. Galavati all over the world wasting our hard-earned money. This must stop in the new year. If it doesn't stop, we all will pay for it. So this is my number one concern about this new year and about Nigeria. Okay, thank you very much. Bayo, I leave them to you. I am for your insight. You have said something. I couldn't really comment at the time, but so we have an opportunity to interrogate that now. Which was that, and I quote you, Nigerians are anxious to vote. So the independent national electoral commission should keep the collection of PBCs at what level. I like the suggestion that it should be kept at what level. But what I want you to explain further or throw more light on is your statement that Nigerians are anxious to vote. And I am asking this because there are those who will say to you that if Nigerians are really anxious to vote, why must they wait until the last minute before trying to collect their PBCs? Have they been waiting until the last minute? They are not waiting until the last minute. People have the answer to get the PBC. So just like the Niger issue now, we have to change it. We have to design the Niger. We are told that we are going to get it in the end. And it's the right thing. The last thing is the design of the Niger. So even now, when you are left, you begin to bring the PBC. But it's not the fault of the PBC. If Niger has started to distribute PBCs for a long time, they would have put in it now that the Niger has started to distribute it. Every where I call them, that's what I'm telling you, this is the problem. And everywhere I call them, it's usually crowded. That is not the fault of the city. And I keep on studying people that almost every Niger has an ATM card. Do they suffer before they got their ATM card? The answer is no. If privately, people can make it much easier for the people. Why is it that the government that has so much money cannot make it so easy for the city? That is the question that they are supposed to answer. You that is interviewing me right now. I know that when you got your ATM card, you never suffered. And once your ATM card has expired, all you need to do, you don't even inform your bank before they prepare it. When you go there, you just pick it. Why is it that we must suffer for everything that government wants in this country? If you want to... Mr. Anya, just a moment, Mr. Anya. There is only one point here. You have to wake as early as... Mr. Anya. when you get to that place. Just a moment. Mr. Anya, let's have a conversation. Let's have a conversation. You are making a good point, but we are trying to interrogate what you are saying. Now, you remember that INEG extended voters register. Simply because not too many people... There was still a gap in people who didn't go to register. Do you understand? So there was an extension. At that extension, just wait. Just wait. Just wait. Just wait. You will respond. Just wait. I'm trying to push a position. Now, there was an extension of the voters register. And that extension is what is resulting in these additional PVCs, which now there has been this build-up in the backlog. Now, we are going somewhere. You mentioned the ATMs and the fact that people collect ATMs without any problem. Yes, that is true. But at the same time, isn't it the obligation of us as citizens to also take this, our participation in the electoral process so seriously? There are those who say we like to wait until the last minute. That does not in any way absorb INEG of anything which it is supposed to correct. I'm trying to make a point that there's a tendency and those who make this argument suggest that people tend to wait for things to be coming to a close before rushing to go and either register or to collect. What can be done in terms of the psyche, in terms of our response as citizens to correct that? That's what I'm driving at. That is what I'm disagreeing with you. That is... Yes, not until now, like that. What did the INEG started? It started at the headquarters. And I'm giving you an example that from where I have gone to cover to if local government we take you about three hours because the roads are very bad and we are going to spend almost two to three thousand to do that. Did you spend such amount of money when you collected your ATM card? That's the question I'm asking. So blaming Nigerians for all the failure of the part of government is not acceptable for people like us because we go around, we investigate, we conduct an interview, we know what is happening. So when government have failed in its own duty, do you blame it on the citizen? The answer is no. I just gave you an example of the redesigned new Niran note. Whereby the central back sender, people, we get it from ATM. And I've told you that I've never seen one. I have, I keep, I have been using ATM. I've never seen one. So when he elapsed now, you blame it on the citizen. No, answer me please. You blame it on the citizen that they did it at all time. If you go to bank now to go and withdraw money, you still get the old Niran note. So at the expiration now, people do not get the new Niran note. You blame it on the citizen too. Please answer me. I don't seem to understand. Okay, Mr. All my analysis have given an example. Yes, let me. I gave you an example of ATM that you now know that you have multiple ATM. Did you suffer before you get the ATM? ATM cards. The answer is no. Why is it that it is government that we always suffer for? Okay. That must stop, man, because if you give excuses for government, government will continue to think that it's doing the right thing. That's what, that is the, the argument I'm trying to point out that don't give excuses for government. Government has failed, in a colossal manner, we should not give excuses for government. When we give excuses for government, government will continue to think that it's doing the right thing. So there is no excuse on the part of government. The citizens are ready to collect PVC. It is the time the INEC started to dispute that it started to go to the different places to collect. Okay, we understand. But when they get a number of people, they suffer. Should they continue to suffer? The answer is no. Okay, Mr. Thank you. Just finally, let me just rephrase. I'm not sure Bio is trying to say that government is absorbed of this thing. But the question is, in so many cases, not just a collection of PVCs, Nigerians tend to drag their feet until it is the final days of that. So we would like you to speak to the people of Nigeria. Government has failed in its own way, but the people must have something they should change in their psyche in 2023 that we have entered now because we are saying 2023 is a defining year. It's a year that we hope to get things right. And if we hope to get things right, surely all the blame cannot be on the government. So what would you say to the citizens so that tomorrow we won't be finding problems, not just for PVCs, but for anything that a Nigerian citizen is supposed to do? Because whether we like it or not, Nigerians, most of them, like fire brigade approach. So we want a word of advice from you to the people of Nigeria how to take things, whether they are political or whether they are social, whether they are religious, whatever it is. Well, to me, I'm a citizen of this country. I am ordinary citizen just like those people who said to people, I condemn it. I don't see any fault on the part of the ordinary Nigeria when it comes to government issue. The same people that are being blamed for not trying to act on time. The same people that patronize a private institution are they do this quickly. They do this quickly. When government have failed, they blame it on the citizens. I asked when the distribution started, the distribution started not long ago. For a country of 200 million people, you are asking there to collect PVC within less than one month. Is that how it is done in other places? 200 million people. A country of 200 million people. Don't you know how many countries that is? So a country is just 900,000 people. What is the population of South Tome and Principe? Less than one million. About 700,000 people. Gabon. What is the population of Gabon? What is the population of Guinea-Bissar? They are less than one million. But it is a country of 200 million people. You want to do something, give a time lang of just less than one month and you blame the people. You know that wherever people converge, large number of people converge in a particular place, there will be a struggle for whatever they are looking for. So the citizens have no blame. I keep making reference to ATM card. Have you ever seen where any bank is drugged because people want to collect the ATM cards? The reason is not because there is no time lang tied to it. You go there at any time, you get it. But in the case of government, government that is always delaying in doing things. So I will not have any blame for the citizens. But rather the situation in Nigeria, like INEC, whenever they want to do something, they should do it on time. They should do it on time. If you have a registration that we are talking about now, 18 years would have emphasized that there should be sports. Maybe the worst is the world area, local government area, where you talk 18 years. You should be able to walk into such a place. So go and get yourself registered for your PFC. Why must they wait until the period of election before they begin to register people? Why must they wait? That is the question that I am praying to you people. Why should INEC always wait until the time of election before they allow people to register for their PFC? Thank you, Mr. Victor. That is the question. If somebody has clocked 18 years, they should be able to walk into the world to go and register for his PFC. They should not be waiting until the election period. That is my argument with INEC. Thank you, Mr. Anya. We cannot understand your position. It is the position a lot of us have expressed. The concern a lot of us have expressed. We just wanted you to talk to the Nigerian people. But I hope INEC is listening, because a lot of people, not just you, have said continuous voter registration means that it should not have a timeline. Any time that anybody is ready, they can just walk into the office. If you have the opportunity to go to, for local government, for instance, you could just stroll into INEC's office, for instance, provide everything that should identify you and then you get your PFC if you are supposed to get it. But maybe INEC also has their own challenges and all that. They will have time to explain to us. After this 2023, I'm sure a lot of things will settle. We'd like to thank you for your perspective on the issues that we have raised here this morning. Thank you so much, Mr. Anya, for coming on the show. Many times for the opportunity to give it to me. We'll take a short break now. When we return, we'll be joined by Dr. Uba, who is a financial expert, and he will be giving us a different perspective of the 2023 budget that has been passed. Dr. Chinwuke Uba to talk on the budget. We'll save him for after the news. There are some salient issues that were raised by Mr. Victor Ese Anya, who spoke with us about some of his concerns for this year. Mario, much as we tried to make Mr. Anya to give some blame, some portion of the blame to the citizens, he was adamant. He didn't accept any of that. He wasn't taking any of that. But he made some sense in whatever he was saying. No, I mean, without any doubt, I think Mr. Anya has successfully projected the challenges inherent in collecting or attempting to collect PBCs anywhere outside of the world level. Given his own experience with what has happened at the world level, the issue, of course, is that you have the multiplicity of things that have to do with that. Including the tendency that we have. It's a fact, we know that that in Nigeria we often tend to delay before we go to fulfill certain obligations. I like the analogy he drew with the ATM card, but I respectfully will not agree with him because I know that if I do not have my ATM card, I will not have money, right? But not everybody would believe that if they don't have their voter card, they will not have money or it will affect them. Generally, you see, there is now a renewed interest in the electoral process. And we should be happy about that. But something led to that renewed interest. Some have said it is because citizens probably felt that they were confronted by mainly two political parties and there was hardly anything they could do to change the situation. Okay, but suddenly you have at least four, you have two additional, for example, presidential candidates who have excited the process and the race, so to speak. And not a few people have suggested that those two additional candidates, you have Papua Rabi, Papuan So, you have the former Governor Peter Obie, that these two additional candidates have somehow excited the political environment, especially Dr Obie. It is a fact, Governor Obie, and this is a fact, there is no conjecture about it. So that inspired many other people and especially younger people to now go and register and the registration was extended after it had closed. Okay, now the anxious, the anxiety of people to be part of the process should also see us taking the PPC as seriously as we take the ATM. I agree that the ATM is well structured. I take nothing away from the point being made by Mr Aya. But of course, if I don't have my ATM card, I will not have money in my pocket. Yeah, you are right in that, once you mention the fact that if you don't have ATM, you don't have money in your pocket, it also like clicks in my mind. If there is no inducement so to speak attached to anything, our Nigerian people, our people will not want to go. For instance, how about the NIN? Nobody wanted to go until it became such that if you don't have it, you can't make a call because they tied it to your phone lines which maybe you have been using for business interacting with your loved ones that are far away and all that because they needed the phone lines, people went for NIN and the crowd when that pronouncement was made was massive. But before then everybody was like I have nothing to lose, so I'm not going. Perhaps that is how the PPC is. But I don't think it's something that we have to threaten somebody that if you don't collect, you are going to miss out on these or that. But how do we get the people to just find it important without necessarily having anything attached to it that maybe you cannot open an account anymore. Maybe you cannot travel on the road anymore if you don't have your PPC. Maybe you can't go to the market anymore. How do we do that orientation to get the people to just see it as important? It's what beats me. I think the truth is that those elected into public office must conduct themselves in ways which inspire people. Because what you call voter apathy is always because a voter believes even if he or she votes, it's not going to change anything. And so you have that tendency to take it seriously. And like we said before, people that believed with two political parties their choices are restricted. With four possible presidential candidates they feel gets more exciting. And so people shed a lot more interest. So I think this is a good thing. But those elected into public office must conduct themselves and public affairs in such a way as to inspire confidence in the population. And once that happens, people will respond normally. People will respond. This is what I feel. Yeah. Well, the government should do something really drastically about these things. I remember that in the 80s only the simple adverts Andrew, if you remember made a lot of people to realize that it is a collective responsibility to stay home and build Nigeria. That was, it shows us that Jack Bass didn't start today. The Jack Bass syndrome didn't start today. People were running away from the country just to go abroad and have a better life. But the national orientation or whoever was responsible was able to do that using just that advertisement. So people, the consciousness of people grew. And most recently we were not known as Niger but maybe it started in music and so on and somebody took it up and made people proud that they are Niger and then said good people, great nation. It spoke to the consciousness of the people. So things like that matter. So I think the national orientation agency and any other agency that is supposed to talk to the psyche of the people should sit up and do something. And then the Ministry of Education should do something as well to make sure that children from the cradle if possible will start to learn how to be patriotic how to be responsible citizens how to take up the mantle of leadership if need be how to be self-reliant and all that. These things are not there in our schools anymore. The other day we were talking about things we miss from the curriculum and I said I miss manual labor that taught us how to take responsibility taught us how to sweep our rooms dress our beds because what you do in school when you come home you won't see it as suffering you see it as something that you need to do it's for your own good and all that but these things are not there anymore maybe the government should have everything even though they are benefiting from this but what about posterity why don't we think about legacies and I've always said a man who never thinks about legacies is a dangerous person. Bayo. You said it all. Just one other point. Mr. Ayyam made a very good point and it's something we've discussed already on the program which is that we should stop this old idea of having a fixed period for people to register for elections. When you turn 18 years old work into the National Population Commission office or INEC office register and collect your PVC. All INEC should be doing is determining the cut-off point for those who will vote in the next election but they cannot stop people from there should be those stoppage period for people registering to participate in and that must be continuous and that's a very good point Mr. Ayyam made and I think we need to keep happening on this so that the next amendment of electoral law can factor that in. There's also the question of voters in the diaspora Nigerians in the diaspora voting in elections that's also something that should be considered but maybe when the next run up to the elections that will come after 2023 we'll start talking about that. We'll start right after this election but we cannot stop talking about it because four years is too much to go and wait before you start doing something that you need to do but we'll take a break here and take the news and when we return we conclude with the economic experts that we've had on standby that will be talking, giving us a different perspective of the budget and any other thing we need to discuss for the run up to wrap up today. Stay with us.