 According to the real time, it's 6.08, we'll call a meeting to order, I'm John Alden, Acting Chairman, tonight, and we have one of them, just barely. So any additions or adjustments to the agenda, Ron? The only thing I want to say, I just sent it to Pete because I just got it. Steve Shaw couldn't be here tonight, it's on vacation, but he did. He sent me an email, said that he saw that David is stepping down, he assumes that John will likely be the chair, and he wants to put his name forward for the last chair. And I don't know who's maybe participating remotely, but I understand that we are on camera, and that we may have audience members out in visiting remotely, and I can't see anybody, so I'm not sure how that's going to work, but I'll hopefully be able to recognize people when they... Yeah, if anybody wants to participate by our teams, I'm here to let them in. Good. Anybody there yet? Gina, Eden, and Tommy, that's it. And they're all live here, though. All right, so the next item on our agenda is audience for visitors, and I have one. And he's already been informed he needs to use a microphone, and I'm hoping he signed in. Have you signed in? Where's the sign in sheet? Over there in the corner? You can sign in on your way out, though. Very Irish on the agenda. You're supposed to say, like, swear to tell the truth at all and stuff. He's providing testimony already. He's not here to talk on any of the subjects on the agenda, so I don't need to swear. So I just have some questions about future development. I'm the property owner at 132 Pearl Street, and my name is Robert Perline. I'm with Perline Real Estate, and I'm looking to develop 132 Pearl. I was the owner of 134. I just recently sold it, but I would still like to take 132. It's got two single-family homes in it. Tear it down and build something else. I thought it was in the TOD. I just recently learned that it's in the HA, the Highway Arterial District. And I'm trying to figure out what the zoning looks like in that area. I believe that there's no commercial required on the first floor, and I don't know about that. It says I can go up 65% of the lot size. Is that just the building, or is that the parking? So that's my first two questions. I think that's, I'd have to check. I think that's a lot of coverage. I think it's 65% of a lot of coverage. You could get more of the waiver than a 65%. Right. Interestingly, Raveena gave us all the summary right here. Oh, yeah. So we're Highway Arterial? Yeah. Yeah. 20 foot minimum front setback, 10 foot minimum side setback, four storage, 58 feet, whichever is less in height. And it doesn't have the lot coverage on it. I thought I saw that. Yeah, I didn't. I should have. I was thinking about it. I have it right here. I have it section 605. It says 65%. So I was just wondering, is that 65% include the parking, or is that just the building? That'll be everything. 65% lot coverage is everything. It's everything. If it's lot coverage, it's everything. If it's broken out, it'll say no more than X% for the building, and then whatever for the maximum. So 65% is the max. Yeah, it was out of waiver. Not permeable. Okay. Then it says you could get waivers up to 80%. Right. And so I'm trying to figure out, well, what would I have to do to get a waiver? What do you guys like to see if I ask for a waiver? I don't want to try to do a, you know, I'm looking at a building like this, you know, and I'm trying to figure out, well, I want to make it so you guys are going to approve it. And I don't want to just go ahead and throw out a building. You guys say no, it's not what we want. And so what do you guys like to see so that I could build a building that's going to make some money and have a tendency to also housing crimes that we have here? I will say, Bob, we're discussing having a design overlay for all the trunk roads coming into the flat corners, which will include Pearl Street right up, probably West Street extension. So if you're thinking of coming in, that should be part of your thought process. You know, we're looking for buildings that will give people a feeling that they're about to enter a community that occurs upon, that the public realm occurs upon the design of the buildings and gives the impression that somewhere they may want to be, whether it's to live or to shop and so on. So we're going to be increasing the design requirements for that zone. It hasn't happened yet, but what I'll tell you is the only direction that we probably have in our requirements at the moment is in the PUD section, where it basically says, we will offer the following if you provide some of the things we're looking for. So if you look in the PUD section, you'll find a little bit of that, but it's a give-and-take, right? We'll give you something because you gave us something. Yeah, let's try to figure out what you guys want. We're trying it to you. One of the things you might think about is solar, because that building, the back of the face, you saw it. And it's side-to-side to west, and it's the ultimate solar. Yep, so some of the other things that we're really struggling for is affordable housing, which is a big deal everywhere. You know, there's market rate housing, there's luxury housing, there's workforce housing, there's affordable housing. I don't think we have any requirements in the regulations yet, but you would bring a fair amount of interest if you had some deference to the lower, more affordable units. And what size are those? Are those one-bedrooms, two-bedrooms, three-bedrooms? Well, studios, one-bedrooms. What I've been told is the market really isn't looking for three-bedrooms or a larger in apartments. People are renting three-bedrooms at the grid they used to make two-bedrooms, just to get them rented. Most people are around here building studios, ones or twos. The highest demand is one-bedroom. And if you look, the houses around here are three or four-bedrooms, for the most part. I'd encourage you to consider twos because there are families that are in this community, and we don't want to exclude them. Charging station, we need one of those car chargers. What about bike? Bike racks, absolutely. Does that have to be covered bike racks or locked bike racks? The more security you make them, the better it looks. I mean, normally you see people carrying them up the stairs or leaving them in their front halls or doing something. If you've got a plan for where they go, we'll look through it. So one thing in this district, excuse me, it's two parking spots forward units. And so that's going to limit unless I go underground with the parking. And I believe I can go underground there. I just have to see if there's a sewer on my property that I have to check if I can go around that. It's probably the sewer's probably going into the property, but I'm guessing it's parallel with the road. I have to look at the easement. Jeremy looked at it and it looked like it went out beyond the property kind of on a diagonal. So what was your question? I was going to say if you have commercial, you need to provide a bike rack for people who are... It's commercial required in that area. I didn't see it in the... I don't believe it's absolutely required, but if you do consider commercial, you will be requested to have a bike rack available for the patrons. I was going to do it for the tenants. Commercial to me is not ideal. It's hard to rent. It's not empty. You don't make much money on it. We're all in touch with it for housing. So I don't know where we stand on our parking regs right now, but I know every other jurisdiction that I work in is easing their parking restrictions, especially for housing. Typically, the normal accepted amount right now is like one to one and a quarter spaces per unit. I don't know where we stand on that at the moment, but... I would think, you know, if there are studios in two bedrooms, maybe the two bedrooms in two spaces, the studios in one space, and you sort of mix and match and cross the number that works. Depending on the mix of units. There's a couple of documents out there that get used for calculating parking spaces. They're sort of national engineering guidelines that are not anywhere close to, you know, two spaces per unit. So if you came in with evidence of some kind and certainly, you know, there's shared parking, there's, you know, sort of best practices, parking... Tandem parking? There has been tandem parking. We've been allowed to do that, but mostly if there's valet services available. So, anyway, I'm just saying be as inventive as you feel and rely on other resources that are out there if you want to get us to change our minds on the parking. There's plenty of evidence that suggests that you don't need two spaces per unit. Right. Plus the two bedroom, then you wouldn't need two spaces per unit. It's not like everybody has a car. I mean, two family... Or two car units are a luxury. A lot of people actually sell parking spaces or rent parking spaces separately from the units. So you can get a unit, you may not get any parking spaces. If you want one, it costs you this much more. Plus... You want two across to that one. Plus from the bus room. Yeah. So there's a lot going for that particular location in terms of housing and affordable housing and transportation and low impact use of energy. It's all right there. You're in a great spot. Well, we definitely want to consider affordable housing. And solar is a good option. We'll definitely consider that in the bike racks. And the charging station, we like that idea. That's a good idea. That's coming. That's up and coming. Yeah. Everything's going to be electric vehicles pretty soon. This is going to sound like a weird question, but are you... I'm an architect, but somebody else approached us about properties on Perl Street. I just want to make sure you're not working with one of my partners, which would make this a conflict of interest. Are you working with anybody now? I have worked with J.R.M.A., which is Michael a lot. I know who that is, but that means we're not working together, which means I'm not... It's not me, so I'm okay talking. Okay. And one of my partners is trying to look at something. Is that enough information for you, Paul? Let me just check my questions. So Oh, there was another question. So, if I don't go the route of housing, I'm also, because I just found out it's different than the TOD with the area that my properties in, would you possibly give me waiver for storage units? Because the other option is putting a building in just for storage units. I know you guys don't like storage units, but to be across from the fairgrounds and to have something with... I am in the back of the street, but I think in front of Street and Perl Street storage units aren't what we're looking for, even before we up the design standards to the street. If we were in the back with the apartments or something to front, maybe, but certainly not street frontage. The Harley-Davidson is advertising for storage right now. Yeah, but it's already there. Yeah, so... It's a good looking storage building too. And we tried to put a brewery in a restaurant. Still working on it. I agree. Still wanting to do that. Yeah, I've got to make a beer, and then I'll be your brewery. There you go. Storage outside is not allowed. So I would... As a builder, if I go down into the ground with a garage, I'm going to try to go up as high as I can and try to get as most units as I can. So I just want you to be prepared when I come back with a plan. It's going to be the biggest thing that I could try to get in there. And it'll probably be a sketch before we get too far. That's great. That's great. That's perfect. And I want to work with you, and if you guys will work with me, then let's see what we can do here. Absolutely. I'd like to use that property. We love Aztecs. We love the Junction. The more people we can get here, we just believe it's people who just want to live here. Absolutely. And so we want to be able to help them. We don't want to put a storage unit in, but again, I don't want to go into the basement less than a garage, unless I know I'm going to make money. So work with us. I think it's falling in love with your project. Absolutely. Okay, and I don't like the ones in Manuski. The ones that are up against the road that are... Well, that's why we pushed the buildings here back from, I mean, the building over here is 15 foot back of this property line just to make it feel more open. That's why we purchased the space in front of the Firebird Cafe just to make it feel more open. Okay. So this is the park street that's going in, this bush spot from the property line. So if I make it more open, I might go up higher. And maybe put a courtyard, maybe I would rather the building look this way front and back instead of this way towards KFC or my other property. This way the views are much better. People would like that. Looking over into that field is gorgeous. As a well-known architect around here might say, it'd be nice if we could talk to the street. You know, address the street. Okay. Do you know who that guy is to? Lots of us. What number is it? 132 is right next to KFC. 132. Are you buying KFC next time? I wish. If you know this for sale, I would definitely buy it. We just paid off our property when 32 so I could tear it down. So... Well, thank you for coming in. Thank you. John. I just want to ask you a question. We have enough forum to vote. I think it's the first time ever when we've elected chair or a vice chair that a person that puts herself forward for the vice chair wasn't actually at the meeting. I don't know if that matters. All right. Well, let's see. I don't know that it matters either. I don't think it matters. So, reviewing and signing ethics policies and electing chairman and vice chairman. Andrew did sign his some ethics. What is that? I don't remember how that worked. Do you... Somebody's got to make nominations. So, somebody would have to... Well, if... I'm up for either job. So, you put your... We need a motion? For both? For chair or vice chair? Well, we're still... We'll do the chair first. Because I think that's what we did last time. So then there's a chair to run the rest of the meeting. So the audience or visitors is done. Now we're going to do additions and amendments. And then we're going to do the minutes. And then we vote for the chair. Is that how that's going to go? You want to do the minutes first? Well, I thought we'd just go on the business side of the way and have the fun after. All right. Does everybody have a chance to read the June 3rd minutes? Yes. I know there have been some corrections mentioned. I'll take... Hold on. I'll take a motion to approve the minutes. Yep. And then you discuss them. This is how it goes. You don't vote on them right away. You put the discussion first. You don't want to approve the minutes? No, because it says David Nistisco was absent. I was absent too. I don't know until there's been a motion... I make a motion that we open the topic of the minutes. I'm not going to make a motion to approve, because I'm not done changing them. I don't think Robert would be happy with that. Okay, so we'll talk about the minutes. Is there a second? Nobody is willing to make a motion. Oh, okay. Until we talk about it first, which is highly unusual. I make a motion that we approve the minutes to be amended. Second. Alright, so the amendments I'm going to suggest is that Andrew needs to be added to there as being absent. That... there should be a notation that the minutes is presented were not as they were recorded. And the time link needs to be adjusted. And this recording secretary and I have already discussed how that needs to go. That Nick Meyer intended to speak but had technical difficulties when he was trying to get on. That David Skopkin actually present with Will Dodge in the Energy Committee presentation. Did Nick Meyer sort out his technical difficulties and speak to us after all? Or did somebody else from the Energy Committee speak? I only went to minute 45 and then I decided that I had been in attendance and I don't remember him showing up. And I didn't make a notation that he spoke on my agenda so I don't think he made it back in. Alright, so do we need to table these until we review the tape or do we... I don't think we feel like we have enough information to actually tell how to make them back here. We could table them next time. Sounds like a good idea. I think most of the people are here. That's not a typo here and I change the word here. That's like trying to figure out did surgeon people even speak? And I don't feel like we can answer that tonight without watching. Or something. Is that a reason to? Alright, so I guess we I don't know Robert either. Do we need we need to table these without actually voting on them? Or we can vote to We can vote to table not start to mail. I make a motion to table the minutes. Do we have to do something No, because it doesn't... We're just going to table. Table supersedes it. We have a motion to table and a second all in favor of tabling the meeting minutes until next meeting. Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That carries. Alright, so the minutes are tabled. Now moving on to the fun part. Fun part. I will we'll go with the I'm electing a chairperson first. I can't nominate myself but I said I would be willing to do it. I think Phil already did that. Did Phil do it? I'll motion to nominate John Alden as chair. I'll second. Alright. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries. We know what you vote on. Alright, so apparently I am not the chair and I will take nominations for Vice Chair with the understanding that at least one person who's not in attendance but Steve said he's interested are there is there a nomination for Steve or anyone else? Steve Shaw should nominate Steve Shaw for Vice Chair. Second. I have a nomination and a second for Steve Shaw's Vice Chair. Is there any discussion? Alright. All in favor of Steve Shaw's Vice Chair say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's what you're telling me. I would like to thank David Natisco who's not here tonight for his many years as chair and you know being a strong serviced member for our community it was great to have him as a committee member. Absolutely. So that brings us to the work session continuing updates on the land development code design review overlay and Regina. So everybody's got a memo and text recommendations in front of you. I am going to try out screen sharing to talk about the first memo item which is the boundaries of the overlay district. It must be one of these windows. Got it. Got too many windows, that's a problem. Alright. Let me zoom back out here. Okay, so what has been added to this map since last you folks saw it is the red outline for the overlay district. We talked about roughly the most part, going one parcel back from the trunk roots and in circumstances some of this existed on Maple Street where the parcel itself follows two zoning districts like the parcel is split between two zoning districts we capture both zoning districts so we're bringing in the whole parcel. We had a question about the expo because technically that brings in the whole parcel but I'm not sure if that's the thought, the intent or what to do there. I can zoom in a little closer on it. Yeah, that's a tricky one. I've seen other municipalities handle this by essentially drawing a line that would kind of connect what happens on either side of that parcel. I think it's going to cross so that you don't end up with some odd parcel. I don't think we really need to have design control over what's going on in the back 40 of the CVE. I think that's a good idea. So we could basically, if you see my cursor here, we could basically draw it behind the Essex Shopping Center and this whatever this parcel is here in the transit I guess my sense would be we want to be able to essentially have some input on what happens at the street front which in my mind includes whatever they're doing with that white barn that used to be red. I think their plan is to continue to do things to that location. It's one of the older structures on the site. But it would be good to have kind of the things that you can see from the road be covered by the design control standards. Okay. Great. And the parcel next to it is where the old tower restaurant was and it goes back to the gate that's back there. Is that why that one's so deep? This one? Alright, that's the... Is it a VFW post now? That could be the VFW post. I can take the districts off if that's helpful. Let me get to the right thing. Oh, I bet you that's the apartment complex that overlooks. Could it be? Because I think the VFW is that little... Oh, that's the one that Amber lives in? Yes, that one. And that's why... Highland Village? That's still one of the nicest... This one? That's still one of the nicest developments. So why is there a little block there around the VFW? It's its own parcel. Yeah, that must be its own parcel. Which I can tell. One second. But this red line has to come off. Yeah, that's its own parcel. Okay. I remember why it was... It's own little district. I think it's mostly a result of her trying to follow the back of the expo parcel property as much as possible. But we basically would tighten that up. But this is a good question. We probably don't need this little parcel in the overlay because it's not street frontage. Yeah, but I would... When we're drawing this line that connects to the other side of the CVE, that might be... That's the edge of the midway there, right? I guess if we follow that... We probably want to be maybe along the back edge of the shopping plaza or something because I don't know that we really want to govern what's happening behind the shopping plaza. Yeah, that makes sense. Although that green roof building you can see that from the street. Yeah. It's a little clip the front of it. Now the Miller building is the blue building up in the middle. So if we take a line we'll just trace around the back of the green roof and connect again to the red on the left hand side. So we just encompass that green building. Rather than putting a line through it. Okay. And then come down between these two, you think, and over? Well, it's a matter of do you want to include the chickens or not in this? Well, that's where you're avoiding. That's the chicken building. You want to regulate the chickens? Not really. I can tell you it's not easy. We've got a lot of chicken complaints at the minute. Hey, there's loose chickens running. And there's rats getting in and there's all sorts of things getting in. Not foxes. Go figure. So I would be tempted to kind of draw from the back edge of about where the VFW post is straight across. And I'm not sure what happens when you bisect the building, but I'm not really that keen on having the line jogging all over the place. I will say when we did the building center district update we jogged around the buildings on Central Street just to include their property. So, how about this? We draw the line straight across and then we just move it where it needs to avoid going through a building. Super. It gives us the basic idea. So it basically would come straight across here probably would go up and over and then just all the way across. Yes. Is this little guy or not? With him. Take the back line. Okay. And keep it... I'm thinking to the south edge of that midway street there because I really don't want to fuel any more of the fairgrounds than we have. Oh, so are you actually saying, John, this line? Well, I wouldn't mind doing that line myself. But you guys want the green building, right? Well, we should include the green building because you can see it from the street. We've seen it from the street. So no matter where we draw the line whether we draw it from the back or further forward of the BFW we'd rather go behind the green building. You got the state building, you got the green building which is I think... Let's just raise the back edge of those buildings in here. Sure. Sounds good. Because you can see the state building from the street too. Is there a mural on the side wall? No. That's what you're seeing. It's the best side of the state. All right. I had an interesting thought while I was looking at these notes this time and that is that they're likely to be... There's likely to be some controversy about this much reach. This feels like the biggest reach that the planning commission has asked for in a while. And I'm just wondering when the public opinion catches up to what we're requesting because there's no one at our meeting tonight. We've got no guests whatsoever that felt like talking about it now and they may not know about it yet. And so at some point do we start making these announcements like is there a newspaper article or whatever our newspaper is now or something that says the planning commission is considering? Well John, why can't we ask Robin or Tammy to make an announcement from Porch Forum or any of the associated newspapers that might... Just do that press release. That brings up another point. There are screens at home. Is that going to be considered there in the meeting? Because sometimes it might... Well we can see all of the people that are watching will show up on the monitor. So if we see them on the monitor, does that equal them being here? Because then they'll have a say in what we do. If they don't have a say... If they never come to a meeting, they'll say, hey, this is office... Well they can write us letters. The rules that they have to be here have at least one meeting about this and I disagree. If we do all this stuff and all of a sudden they come up, hey, I disagree. Well, you've never been here. So you really don't count now. I'm not sure it works that way. Act 250 and places like that require you to have standing before you're allowed to really be a participant. I think ours is more relaxed than that. I think they can come... This is why I'm asking the question because they can come on the last day and say we don't like it and shoot it down. So I'm just hoping... This is a big enough question for us as a community that I'm hoping we get more input than everybody's showing up on the last day. And last week the trustees asked me in my reappointment interview about public involvement in this process and if we were getting a lot of it and how we could get more potentially. So I think it would be a good idea to do something, let the public know actively that this is what's going on and come voice an opinion. I've been here long enough now that the last couple of times we did this I was really eager for and angry that we didn't get more public opinion. And this time around I'm kind of tired of asking for it. So the point is if you want to have a say because you need to participate and now is the time to participate not after the rules are done and after they're written in the book and then you decide you don't like something. If you want to have a say you've got to come now. People really have a say when something's happening right next door to them. Too late. Too late. We're writing the rules now I'm asking for input from the community. So why don't we have a PR piece and had it posted in front porch room. If I still had access to that I'd do it as planning commission. I didn't even put the map in. You didn't have access to that? No, they decided that I couldn't have my five neighborhoods anymore. Who decided? There is something about living here number of front porch rooms. So I no longer could have five neighborhoods I no longer have five neighborhoods otherwise and I said unfortunately this would be an opportune time to actually have that posted in the buildings and I'm sorry to report that that was removed by the administration. I didn't know I'm sorry. Does the village have access to all the neighborhoods? We have given the community about the project has given access to that. All right well I guess the general feeling from the planning commission the more contact with the rest of the community the better and we are soliciting as much input on these topics as we can get and we want to know. I have an idea. Why don't you put a big banner across the road that says planning commission is changing some of these districts or whatever. If you want to know about it come here because you put a front porch farm and it only goes one day and it's gone. One day unless you keep going. Well put something out so people can see it. If it's in your face they're going to have to do something about it but if they just sit in front porch farm and it's gone the next day like you said you can only do it five times and they'll boot you up anyway. What if we put a temporary sign out front that said proposed zoning district overlay tell us what you think. Can you email me a copy of the administration so that I can get funds at that time? You can't be bigger than everybody else's sign, right? We have rules that we have to abide by like everybody else so we can't put sign too big out there or something. Without money you can. Right. Alright we got sidetracked. We're sorry Regina. No it's fine. It's a good conversation. The only thing I would anticipate is questions about what else you're going to be doing and I would say namely on the housing front. But I think it's fine if this PR is like this is the first step of the process and so there'll be other pieces that come up along the way. It's happening now. The piece that Steph is writing is a list of topics that are being considered. Top 10 or something. Top 5 and everybody is able to read a 5 bullet list now. I'm going to remember you saying that. But anyway I think that might help and if there's a zoning overlay thing that might be the headliner and maybe there's some supporting cast members there probably that'll be enough enticement to raise our participatory numbers. We might be able to figure out how to do some kind of online comment tool with this map. I'll think through that with Pam but we might be able to do something like the map is super helpful but they also should see the text probably that's not 100% decipherable to the average. For this purpose maybe we just take all the other colors off the map except for the trunk roads so when people look at it this is the space we're talking about. There's no detail anywhere else except along the trunk roads. Right. How do we go? Let me stop sharing this and I'm going to start sharing the text which you have in your packet if I can find it sorry one second I think I closed it it's like a whole new process doing this back in person more pressure I think it says yes it is I thoroughly enjoy having my physical copy of the LBC getting closer share so hopefully this is clear what I did but basically this looks like track changes because all I did was pull out the sections from the village center overlaying historic preservation dropped it here and then made edits so you could see the differences between what you got in the village center and what we're talking about here and a lot of this is just kind of streamlining and reorganized it a little bit because I think the purpose statement and the applicability in the village center section gets a little bit confusing and it sort of like talks about it in a bunch of different ways so basically here is to expand the design review and historic preservation to the trunk roots as called for in the comprehensive plan and then the specific called out purposes for it is to protect the historic structures enable infill and redevelopment carry out the concepts of design five corners and establish a pedestrian friendly atmosphere from the surrounding neighborhoods into the village center that makes sense for the most part I was just wondering is do we want to call it both the design review and the historic preservation overlay district I mean those are kind of to my mind they're two separate things but they could occur simultaneously on any given property what can we also call it the design overlay district within that umbrella there may be the need for historic I just have two thoughts one is I would I don't want people who are not covered under the historic preservation part of that to get nervous that we're trying to extend the reach of the historic preservation because that is significantly more onerous than just the design review and it's been a very tricky balance over the years to try and identify what we're trying to get in this historic preservation so we haven't said you must follow the Secretary into your guidelines but there are points where we can make that happen I think it's tricky and the historic piece is the whole different hurdle to jump over and it doesn't apply to everybody however the design review does apply to everybody so as we go through just see if there's a good way to sort of make that distinction and I'm just concerned that the title of the whole section is going to be confused can we keep flexible and say design review overlay district and then somewhere in the verbiage say that the planning commission may consider historic standards based on individual site applications so it wouldn't be for new buildings obviously it wouldn't be for new buildings but if you think about going up the hill here there's some nice old buildings there's some on Miple Street maybe we'll just give ourselves a flexibility to say well this is an important structure so we will add something else to design review if your structure, if your building is considered historic the following also applies or may apply I think that's better too, gives us flexibility we have a section already clarified what constitutes that as being historic there's a map that has 120, 700 I know also there was also a document put together I believe when Ford Pearl Street was done Act 250 requested a document that was put together that called out a historic structure for those centers and the tricky part is that the way the regs actually we're not sure how regs treat this way but the enabling legislation says it only needs to be eligible to be granted some sort of protection and so basically if it's over 50 years old it's eligible which is starting to be a fairly low bar and that's not well I've heard some people are trying to stretch that to 70 or make it more make it older well I mean the train station is 50 years old I don't think we'd want to preserve that and my house is over 50 years old in 1970 only about 40% of it anyway so I just want us to be careful I think what we were trying to do is say that yes we have historic properties throughout the village we want to extend to them the level of protection that they should get for that status and then we also have this design overlay that we have a completely different purpose for and it might be good to separate those I think as you said design is the primary function historic is secondary because it won't be included every building every project okay so that makes sense I wanted to separate them out totally when I first looked at this for that reason but so I'll take a look at that also applicability hopefully this section does say what we just said looks like it so design review applicable to any new construction proposed additions demolition or reconstruction within the village district for those folks regular maintenance exterior alterations and change of use are exempt from these this level of standard then secondarily additional historic preservation design standards are applicable to all buildings listed or eligible on the state or national list and for those folks it is alterations redevelopment and then there's been this sentence in there which I don't know what it should say but it's been a non-sentence is a non-sentence right now in the village center district that's what I wrote so it's at the end of number two it's got a little comment box on it documentation from the state division of historic preservation documenting a building's eligibility for the state or national register of historic places nothing so the only thing that makes sense to me is will be required but I don't know if that's really what you're doing right now may be required and also the state as far as I know is not interested in providing that information for local review processes well they have they were active when Fort Pearl Street was going in they said two buildings could not be taken down is that because it went to act 250 or did it not go to act 250 it did go to act 250 so maybe that's a lot yeah they'll participate if it's gonna go to act 250 but if you folks just wanted their thoughts, opinions on a property as far as I know they're not gonna engage yeah well he's now in charge of historic sites which yeah he's still there I thought he just moved he must have moved back in again he got moved into sort of the he's within the SHPO office but he's sideways to a new branch of he was very responsive he was great yeah he's great so do we really need that documentation I'm telling them we don't what would we need it for I don't know that we would need it we don't need it the state will most likely if somebody wants their building listed they will accept a nomination and maybe identify but you've got to have somebody else providing the paperwork that says we're submitting this for inclusion on the list and that's a whole process and the state's not gonna do it for you they will you know receive it and you'll have it at the state level or pass it on to the national level so I guess the only thing I was thinking is if you folks are ever in the position where you think a property is historic and it should come through this level of design review and the property owner disagrees but I think that's why I think I like the May we may decide that put instead of will put May well I would take the whole sentence out because I don't think it says anything close to what we want it to say you can't start off a sentence saying that you're requiring or may even require documentation from those folks I don't think we need documentation I think we should say something like the village planning commission may require an applicant to retain historic elements of an existing building or worse that effect we make the decision so if the building is already listed then or it's on our map that says it's already been identified then it already has those protections and the rules apply well if it's listed it does if it's on that map that 1970 survey map that was listed and eligible or it was just somebody's idea of what they thought was most of those had some historic aspects at the time really in the 1970s a lot of them that historic character has already been lost so I think it's an okay potential first filter though for you folks to that could maybe be your list like everybody knows what's listed that's public information but those other properties that were historic way back in the 70s those are the folks that you could be asking as a threshold question to come in and take a look and you may look at it and be like whatever was historic about this is long gone it's not necessary to maintain that character without the state perspective on it my experience is that there are listed buildings that are fully documented there are contributing buildings which are also supporting the general theme of an area but may not be fully intact or will have you on their own so they don't qualify on their own as historic but they're still contributing and then you have whole districts where they draw like our village center is sort of a district they'll do that like all of Jericho is a historic district and it's all written up and listed it's been accepted so that's a thing and there are primary buildings and contributing buildings and on down along but essentially the mission back at the day when they did that and I forget when they did it but was that they were trying to say look this is a representative Milltown World Milltown so the whole thing point out all the contributing buildings and all the listed ones and there you go so we kind of have that although I don't know how serious it got I don't know what the state would say about their level of protection or they consider that to be fully legitimate but it's still worth talking about and there could be buildings that are listed on and they're historic for reasons that we don't know about that aren't on that list so I guess we're all trying to say the same thing how do you protect them or provide an option for people to usually it's hey we're waving a red flag somebody called for that building to be demolished and we want to at least slow the process down long enough so we can talk about it is there any other options before we let it go I think it's important to mention the buildings because a few buildings were for sale on the pro street when people looked at the price they said do any way I can buy this if I get to demolish the building and put something else in and that's a development pressure that as five corners continues to get denser if that's going to happen that's what happens the other thing I would like to not see is that someone lets the building go to degrade to the point where it has the only rational thing is to demolish it and it is a historic building because we've seen a few of those happen locally possibly to the detriment of the village but some people resort to that so that a building can come down so what happens do you get federal money if it's a historic building and you want to fix it up but to do that it's going to cost a lot to you because it's registered in a historic place do you get special funding for that it's not usually funding unless you apply for funding and get it through some other like a state you know grant some kind of what they usually offer tax credits those are incentives but it's not exactly like money coming into your pocket but it does save it on the other end it does become part of the package that any of these sophisticated projects that you see happening where their tax credits of some kind happen and that's usually the key factors in how the financing works for these things and I mean developing housing has got to be so specialized the lenders market because it's so hard to put a whole package together and you often even on some of these projects happening there could be three or four different lenders all providing a piece and you know it's it's difficult to make the big projects come together unless you know somebody's really got deep pockets but anyway usually the goal is to allow a building owner who happens to have an historic property some access to the funding that's out there or tax credits that's out there to defray some of the expenses of taking care of the historic fabric and that's the game you know can you get something out of having a historic property is it nice is it support the image of the village contribute to the appeal of the activity of the property for some reason in all of those things okay so I'm going to take this sentence out that's highlighted here and I'm going to make sure to get in the different comments that we've thought about we've just described in terms of what's the threshold and we'll make sure I'm not sure that it needs to be in this section or further down that really at the end of the day it's the planning commission may apply these standards it's up to your discretion okay demolition I had a question about I think this is redundant it's number three and it's got a comment box on it as well this is only for historic buildings and if so there's already a whole section on demolition for historic buildings towards the bottom it's part e on page 108 carries on to page 109 it is always okay where's the other one that you're finding it's up here in applicability it was probably in a slightly different location in the village center district but essentially both of these already say the way I've reworded it that when you're just talking about the total design review demolition needs to be reviewed and then maybe that's what's missing on this new draft for the historic preservation applicability it also needs to say demolition with respect to demolition alterations, additions, or redevelopment yeah then I think it would cover it then it's pretty clear the demolition section below unless you want the demolition section that's listed there if you want a thorough review of the economic and structural characteristics of the building for all buildings in this overlay not just historic I would take it out I think we're really after that we already have review of demolition on what we're saying but the specific requirements for historic properties are more significant and severe and so those are our whole page on it later okay so I'll delete okay then next question in the memo is I think this is not necessarily in the text it's more useful to look at the memo at this point I think you want to keep the setbacks and the heights as established in each of the base zoning districts and I put them in here just so you can see what those are it's not our intent to alter those with this overlay they all stand on their own as written in their own sections does that sound right? yeah the one that took me by surprise a little bit there's a couple of these front setbacks that are a little odd and I'm more used to seeing things like 20 feet minimum or the average of two adjacent things you know if you're trying to say we're trying to create a street frontage that makes sense where all the buildings are pretty much the same distance from the street but it doesn't show up in some of them like it's either a 20 foot minimum and then no other requirements or a 20 foot minimum and a maximum of 20 feet so you're saying we don't care it's going to be 20 feet well let's just say look at BFW building going west if somebody's coming into the four storey building do we want a 20 foot somewhere? where the BFW, the parcel starts or west you know on Curl Street you've got the older historic buildings with the gardens in the front and so it's a very different feed than what could happen west of the BFW building well west of it's I don't know of any building right now that's right on this high walk no so they've got that 20 foot setback or more but the TOD here shows no minimum setback so for instance earlier we were talking about you could build right up to the sidewalk but at the moment all the buildings have a setback they do not anything new would have to talk about coming right up to the sidewalk but right now all the buildings that are there have a setback of some footage and the latest only new building that went in also has a setback of 20 feet or so is that the hotel project on the other side it's the first piece of what was the hotel project on the other side so the hotel and it was an adjoining restaurant and the hotel for obvious reasons got put on hold but the other building went in and just got built and it's sort of finished it's hard to tell it's finished quite frankly but it has still like a big swale in front it's like a drainage swale in the front well the approved plan showed that as a rain garden is it? they're not done then no but the point is the building is setback so yeah I don't maybe it's just a design thing or a planning thing but I like streets they have modulation with the buildings when you look it's not just this straight line tunnel and some jot out and some fall back it really changes the feel of the street as you walk down maybe that's just a personal thing so the multi-family mix do is one on Pearl Street which is 20 feet minimum and 20 feet maximum when we I don't know if it's side tracking but do you modify that to read the way the other ones do where 20 feet minimum but the average of we're willing to accept the setback that appears to have some something to do with what's going on on either side I think that the section you're talking about it's all existing buildings there's a difference between that and where a new building could go in it might be nice to have a design overlay district that respects the design overlay that respects the different districts that flows through it I'm fine with that I'm still talking about the ones we already have on paint you know we really want now that we can see them all listed out together in one place we all comfortable with them so sorry that side track I think all of them set back to a better idea myself it would mean right up to the sidewalk just give it a little personality we just talked about how we would want to see something with some openness to it and so in that district we have no minimum so we could change it maybe we need to play with the transit oriented district and put it in a setback minimum is there any projects coming up now that's already playing on it being right up to no minimum they can't change it now the TOD has been very difficult to find projects that want to come in every building in it is non-conforming every existing building is an existing non-conforming and that's the only building in how many years that's come through and been permitted and now built in that district and the driver was the hotel which isn't there is he ever going to do that he was going to do it sometime later but you know hotels and anyway it's too bad I think that piece that is there now would have made a lot more sense as a part of the bigger picture makes a little less sense now that it's the only thing there but hopefully we'll get that one we'll kind of find a little building there and that's it alright we'll take it on as a side project to review the setbacks and but you know any of these little things that bug you along the way as we're doing all this stuff you know put them on our list so the last question is about the formula retail and formula restaurants now that we've really sort of decided what areas we're talking about here do you want to have those standards in the overlay district so this is the very end of this section so you'll see this on page 109 and it's item F and also what might be helpful is in the memo includes the definitions of what formula retail and formula restaurants are if we include that we will make every restaurant on Pearl Street nonconform that's just the reality some of the things about it and when they want to update their buildings then yes that will be that challenge yes that will be fun but yeah I think we're planning for the people who haven't been born yet so so where would you allow them well I tried to get them all to move inside CDE I tried to get them all to move across the road behind the gates of CDE so it would open up a whole side up to something different CDE would discuss at the time they probably would not food court yes at CDE I guess the point is that strip over there is the only section around that's even remotely like that yes and it's the question is if they would speak and then it came in today would we approve what's there probably not that's a good thing to think about too so even with your existing TOD standards are they already nonconforming yes no so this doesn't change a whole lot they're just putting another tally in the well so ask yourself well two more questions are they they serve a purpose in our community I mean we spend a lot of time talking about economics and benefits and things and you can't deny that they're a major I'm almost saying regional attraction but you know regional seems like everybody who drives on Burl Street in the morning goes in to one of them for breakfast ten years ago I would come to Wendy's from Burlington so yeah so the point is though is if you don't want them there but you want what they give to the village as their function where do you put them and if you don't have a better answer to them and you don't want to say make them more nonconforming they serve an economic purpose for the village and the community and the region when we have visitors from everywhere in the region so as we're putting a design overlay on all the truck routes coming in or does that fit with that goal I actually think that for what they are they've all done a good job of updating themselves and staying current and modernizing and trying to improve their appearance add more serviceability and functionality add more trees regulate trees we can ask for more picnic tables we can make that front piece more active if we want right maybe there's some dressing up that we want to do there but Duncan Donut sort of did that last time and also think if we get more multi-families that people want to build in that area the look of that ten years from now too we've worked on the streetscape a little bit we've done improvements the CVE improved their design absolutely we've got the street lighting project we've got the new sidewalks we've got all the beginnings of making it more pedestrian friendly your regulations already ask for that you want to encourage more walking and more we're seeing a lot of apartments just down the street you know I think you I mean they're gonna do what you need them to do if you can just be happy with the screening or the other vegetation or the other things that you want to add to the streetscape to make it more healing can I ask for more pesceteurine and vegan bands? you can ask for whatever you want so I guess I would my sense is well that's only the one trunk if somebody showed up and said well I want to build one next to Maple Street Park we'd all freak out so maybe the point is the particular location therein now is acceptable but the other trunk roads maybe we try to discourage that I'm just actually thinking does it make sense in some way to start east of the last fast food building that exists on that side I don't mind as design over design overlay of all those places at all I just don't want to have it written I think we have to acknowledge that they're there and that they you know we try to find a way to say what we're trying to say without having it impact all of the trunk lines because I think the other trunk lines can have their own character whatever that is but it isn't going to be fast food is there something we can write in that might mention that takes in the character of the surrounding area so that that surrounding area right now has more of that sort of look to it different from Mabel Street do we have that already this is an overlay because if the underlying continues to stay those other areas do not have a fast food component to that so they couldn't go their A here because the underlying district doesn't allow it so why don't we just take F out because we don't need it because it's basically already in the Village Center where we're saying that's appropriate okay and so if we've already done that then and the other districts around the trunk lines don't have them and can't have them so it doesn't matter if we took it out there right and so the one district that has them they're already non conforming and there still will be in the design overlay so they'll have to you know so that way if they come in they can't make themselves well the code says in English they can't make themselves more non conforming that's already in the code but this will reinforce that and they're going to stay in their footprints as much as they possibly can anyway but if you can just get them to do better exterior stuff and then yeah once they change the footprint the business is actually probably changing right can we like have a villain for an example like Highland Village I just still can't believe how good that place looks for a huge chunk of real estate they made that place look awesome it looks like it's all been there yeah it looks like it fits perfectly whoever designed it I still can't believe how good a job they did so you got these other huge buildings just a big box with a roof it's like it doesn't really it doesn't add anything so can we have like an example like look at this building over here we want it to look like that there's no questions about it we want it to look like that maybe change the colors a little bit more or less like that but Andrew Highland Village is actually numerous buildings it's not they all have a lot of gables and they all have nice little vents and they're you know the round gable and vents and all it's just a lot of detail which is hard to find these days right but they look really charming for what it is yeah a bunch of big buildings they don't have all that there just that big box they're doing it but they made it all these little roof lines and shed roofs and a gable roof and they just did a really good job so I'm thinking we use that for an example if you want us to prove something that you want to build make it look like that so there's no question about what we want there it is I don't know there's my opinion there's probably good examples from each of them out there in the country somewhere that you could point to that say look this is better do it that do it that way and then we get the form-based color okay right I don't know the cookie color but you know make them look sort of like that but kind of like that but sort of like that column A and a roof line from column B just mix it up and make it look good alright well you know they have a resource in village staff already that seems to have design capability so talks to all the developers it's all as possible so I was given us books to read maybe there's some which reminds me I never got my original picture so if I could have that that would be wonderful who's got it now Diane used to have it no I never had it after me so I did did it kisses on it so I like that do we have more for Regina there was a couple of things in here about next steps yeah so you we have storm water yeah Jim Judas and Chelsea gave us that stuff they gave us half of that half of it from my perspective they have the skill set we don't so I'm willing to accept what they gave us because we don't have the knowledge to say whether it's right or wrong well I guess my only my interest in understanding what generally they have done whether or not there is any real impact to us or not it's going to go in think about the life of a project application it goes to the village engineer they write 20 pages about what you know, nuts and bolts have to be and they give it to us and Robin attaches it to the back of our staff report and that's the deal we don't often unless the village engineer says the planning commission should make this decision we don't usually have something to say well most of this stuff they changed it's basically to bring it up to date with theater federal requirements so they don't have much choice either no I think it's just helpful if we generally understand what is happening like the state introduced five new requirements here's what they are they'll be able to be with the changes yeah so I'm hoping that part of our presentation isn't too long because I think what we really want to focus on are some of the things that are getting more and more attention like the whole housing piece yeah I mean really what comes from whether it's wastewater polymers their stuff is below ground our stuff is above ground so what we do is what's seen so I think that's why I think the design component is very important is the requirement now to process all stormwater on site for new builds? I think if it's a maker we don't let there's no stormwater runoff on any properties we always have a caveat in the decision that if it turns out that there's runoff they have to have to cure it so there's a lot of infiltration yeah we're going to say is that what all these guys are doing they've got underground stuff yeah well isn't that the MF-4 stuff? yeah the MF-4 well you know when 4 Pearl Street was designed they actually overdesigned it to accommodate the people on Park Terrace they overdesigned their system at our request to accommodate it because a small lot probably can't accommodate it the new stormwater requirements are coming out and so the state looked big picture we said well can you increase your stormwater retention bases and stuff offset what can't be done by some of the smaller lots around you to their credit they did they never got any credit for it but to their credit they did they did a lot so you're talking the runoff that's coming down Park Terrace just down the road a lot of people are into their stormwater retention bases to help the neighbors so aside from the stormwater what else do we have coming up? so the housing stuff we're sort of in a waiting pattern to see what comes out of the housing committee work we had other requests like we had that request to change the zoning of Main Street that we talked about that so maybe we put that back on the agenda so we can try and make some progress what we think there we haven't had any other requests and as I said it reminded me of two other occasions where the commission had a request each time it was denied each time it was for a particular property this time it's also for a particular property they're only asking for their property they're showing what's happening elsewhere they're only asking they're asking for their property only I thought they were asking for it to flip like a old strip they threw that in but it's really all that they're doing everyone's already hearing enough to go down there have a turn lane down the middle or something to accommodate all the commercial whatever might be going in there pretty tricky to do are there any interfaces with the town the town plan or the town requirements that we need to we had that one project that was right on the scene of the town and the village and that went back and forth about how to deal with that for a while is there anything that we should be doing well the regional planning commission require that the municipal boundaries touch they have to be compatible so it will be reviewed by the regional planning commission look at that this I mean it's more in the time plan than it is in this but also the town redid their town plan a number of years ago I don't know where they are with their development I'm not sure they redid we redid ours I'm not sure they've actually finished redoing theirs they concentrated on the Essex town center which is not the CMC that's all different what was the issue I'm just wondering how do we make sure that we're being somewhat consistent with their their town plan is 2016 they're the first ones who got 8 years they haven't redid but that's not their actual regulation that's just the town plan it's the same thing as our town plan which was redid last year so I'm not talking about these I'm talking about RLDC and is there anything that we feel like doing as the neighboring community that has that we should be talking about in my question I don't think so I mean it's the town plans that control the edge not the land development code the land development code is under the umbrella of the town plan I haven't seen that they've done anything in review of what they've been doing I mean the only new additions are of course the culvert property that's being developed but that was already complying with it and we asked them we didn't want their street to come into the village not because we didn't like that but it would have been a cut through for their neighborhood it wouldn't have been a pleasant place so we asked them to just make it a bike direction otherwise everybody from our neighborhood would have been driving through the new neighborhood to get further upward 15 and it just wouldn't we did it for their benefit not for the village benefit so you're telling me that we think we're okay with the way we currently integrate with our neighbor absolutely and anything down at the other end Susie Wilson Road direction they are going to change Susie Wilson Road I don't think from our perspective for the better we're going to add another lane that's not really impacting our LBC really that's just a well who knows because the bike lane change eventually whenever that gets around it we have worked from Athens Drive to the north we did a scoping study we worked at that we put in a bike lane so our bike pedestrian path we also looked from Westford extension out to Susie Wilson we talked about making it three lanes taking out the median strip having a tunnel in and it would actually narrow the width of the road so all the properties on the north side of Susie Wilson would be further back than the road so there would be a bigger space in front of those properties I also asked where we have the jug handle at the moment to Westford extension I asked instead because there's a bus stop on the south side of the road that we go to the South Brownington model where you turn around you make your left you turn taking in the bus the bus stop giving you enough room to turn around we remove the jug handle and then we can make that additional parking for the park because once you take out the median strip people don't need that to get to the north side of are they taking the median strip out of there? yeah that's the kind what did they mess up the island for toward they did something it's a GMP right away GMP right away? they redid the wires they dug it up a little bit I thought they should put it in a lane or something they were doing the supports for the wires oh they did that all the way from Kellogg to down the hill I didn't even know what was happening until I saw the construction what are they digging that up for what's the question connected what's going on with that? happy days we we own all the right of way land we need are we still going to be held up by the neighbor with the parking lot over there? I repeat we own all the land the right of way we need we talk about neighbors we we asked NECR Amtrak we asked NECR for funds to do the real crossings on the connector road from Amtrak earmark because we didn't have quite enough money when the bids came in they did apply they added the crossings in the village and they got 1.2 million from Amtrak to do the crossings in the village there's still a lot of documents to be signed but that takes us to the point we don't have enough money to do it NECR do not want to do the crossings until next spring which means v-trans want to bid in the autumn or winter so the road won't start until 2023 also Peter Welch applied for 5.4 million for the connector road and it was approved by the Haas not has to go to the senate so just be swimming in money or v-trans will because 1.2, 5.4 if it was to get through the senate two hurdles were cleared first one then all of a sudden what was the project it was over budget the project has more money than is needed to do it we still have to buy our own trees then so looking at 2023 should I look that long I might actually see it soon we can look at the idea of 2000 and then well apparently it's still on a fast track that's right all right Regina do we have anything else tonight I do not need anything else tonight happy days any other planning commission items that we haven't just talked about I don't want to know what's the status of our non-compliance of railroad in Maine that's not the same question I know that they were in progress but where are they they did put omens we have told them that once the market reaches equilibrium again we will be expecting to bring the building to where it should have been and if they don't I'm going to resend their sale so it was trimmed and pink colored and on yeah lots of modeling on the building that didn't happen so you know there's a lot of things to happen well there was also landscaping that didn't never occur but I understand through the grapevine that they might be moving to Wallister they may be moving to Wallister so if they sell their property the new owners will be liable for bringing it up to COVID so that that should be interesting do we have to put a lien on it now? well we wouldn't be giving his own in compliance and when they ask why we don't get the answer it's just in giving what happened we wouldn't be good neighbors it's depressing when the restaurant wasn't getting customers can we put something in the file the legal file for that property whatever that means so that if some purchasing attorney does the search I have several letters in the file telling them that they don't meet the requirements of the approval and they would have to it's actually a temporary CEO an extended temporary CEO yeah we just we try to help people they kind of help themselves they did that themselves we did on June 16 they attended the Essex Housing Commission meeting and they were thrilled to death to help planning commissioners attend it was an honored guest anyhow there we go but what I found was important was that they were discussing the S-79 registry bill that it has had not passed at that point in time and has not which would have been helpful had it passed the other topic of discussion was housing trust funds and there's a working group and they went through two housing developments and chatted about those so so there you go funding games I was curious as to the rental registry because it was on their agenda and I went oh let's hear what they have to say so I went this is something we talked about years ago and I thought okay well actually I have a couple things I don't want to call them big picture things but I will so I was at the regional planning commission Transport Advisory Committee three weeks ago anyway they had an equity review of the table of projects that the CCRPC had and they had equity one and equity two an existing table the train station was number three and equity one dropped to number six and equity two dropped to number six and public transportation is really important for equity for low income people to get to work to do things that were surprised so we had quite a long discussion and in the end the TAC voted to send the existing table to the CCRPC board absent equity review one equity review two because it didn't make any sense because public transit is really important and I thought well maybe the person who was reviewing didn't realize we were in a multi-modal facility it wasn't just the train station so I actually asked the CCRPC to change to the on the table the S6 junction multi-modal facility because it turns out were they actually the only multi-modal facility in the whole of Chittinacate that has train and bus on the one side ground to the nine to keep the train station and the bus station three or four blocks apart so with it anymore you can get off one public transit onto the other part the taxis are over it's more than two so I haven't checked with Dan Kieran to see what happened when it went to the CCRPC board or whether it did the other thing is the Vermont rail plan as part of the Vermont rail plan the proposal to have a train from S6 junction to Boston big picture fantastic it's planned at the moment to have the train go from here to Springfield, Massachusetts then you get off the train it's been like that forever then you river another train it'll take you three days and then you get to Boston and I've always had this discussion in Burlington we have a train to New York it's $8 I can get a plane in 50 minutes we didn't have a plane to Boston and now we've got one as long as you don't mind getting on a plane it means 12 people so it's very rare for personal comfort and convenience to overlap with something that's good for the environment there is a section of track right of way in New Hampshire it's about 22 miles long with the state purchased from Pan Am rail quite some time ago after the state purchased the right of way Pan Am rail came back and lifted all the track because apparently the agreement didn't include the track it just included the right of way if that track was reinstated it would take three and a half hours to get from this extension to Boston it would go through Concord it would go through Concord there's a lot of benefits to New Hampshire the train would go from Montreal through Essex Junction to Boston if it takes you on a good day four hours to get from here to Boston on a bad interesting day six hours if you can get a train that gets you right in the center of Boston you don't have to park your car that's that's a good choice that's a very competitive choice if a train could hold the equivalent of a hundred cars it's much more environmentally friendly as well so all of a sudden you have the potential for an overlap of personal comfort and good environmental good environmental benefits clearly our congressional delegation needs to be talking to the New Hampshire congressional delegation it's above my pay grade but I think it's something we should be looking at and I do have contacted trustees have bought it or elected officials have bought it I have had conversations with the trans I'm not sure if that's going anywhere the head of transportation in New Hampshire is a woman her last name is Sheetan it's a good actually Sheetan I think it's a good actually so I haven't been in touch with her yet you know I don't know if the tracks upgraded from Essex Junction to Burlington without us getting the three and a half our train from Essex Junction to Boston then we're going to be a stop on the line even though we're at the intersection of the eastern and western real line anybody in Vermont going to Montreal must go through Essex Junction but my dad worked for North Carolina and I remember you know before European Union if you want to get from Belfast to Dublin if you want to get on the train in two places Belfast and Dublin the nicest train station in North Carolina was Porter Valley it's not a train station anymore because the train didn't stop there so it seems to me if we're at the intersection of the eastern western real card I'm going to need a local facility in Chippin County we should be the boarding spot to get to Montreal if the trains upgraded from Essex Junction to Burlington that will not happen we've got the rail you've heard this under times it's got the lake it's got the church street it's got the hospital it's got the university it's got the interstate it's got a key real settlement facility so that we get these things that add icing to the cake of the railway which we live with don't get a lot of benefit from July 19 all of those senators will be congressional delegation will be getting on the train and staying on them for 24 they'll be here for 10 minutes John is very kindly agreed I think to make up some boards so we can put in the train station so that we can show what we're trying to do I've asked public works to draw a little white line again from the eastern side of Lincoln Street to the northern side of Maple Street so we can show them the potential to make the village center rather than a drive-thru so I think I'm going to have a 5 minute walk and talk with them I'm trying to get on the train so I can bend a few ears on the way down to my friend LeArchway but I don't know maybe I'm 100% wrong but it seems a lot of decisions are political decisions which may not necessarily be the best decision we're not at the table when it comes to remote real consulate so we don't get to speak I'm only asking you these questions because I already knew the answers but I'm asking these questions because I've got a whole room full of planning commissioners here and I want to know what we can do I'm planning to show up until 9.44 more than Mario I haven't asked yet but I'm sure you'll be more than happy to purchase my favorite lemon jitter scones so who is this delegation going to be those kind of guys and also the senate transportation committee so they said they're Masa and Thomas Chittenden these are state senators as well I will say I'm trying to get in through a friend's daughter to see Bernie Sanders I'm trying to make it on the tent but you know I've always said just acting I don't think it's a fault for anything 9.44 9.44 although well no it'll be 9.44 it's an actual it's an actual it's an actual Amtrak service they just happen to be on it we hear them every day when they come through most of the time it's 9.40 well they have they'll be here for 10 minutes but the kickoff is in St. Albans I think it's probably 8 o'clock or 8.30 there and we're on all the board as the Amtrak people say and some people will stay on and go down to you know Waterbury or not be there and get off there but it's just a celebration event people keep telling me it's very expensive to update we've spent hundreds of millions so I took Burlington so you can sit on a train for a few hours to get to New York so it might be worthwhile to spend a few million to get on a train and fix it 3.5 hours to get to Boston just saying anybody else have planning commission updates I'll take a motion to adjourn them second all in favor thank you very much thank you Robin thank you