 Welcome back, you're still watching The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa and now imagine a gender equal world, a world free of bars, stereotypes and discrimination, a world that's diverse, equitable and inclusive. A world where difference is valued and celebrated, that's the message being passed as a world max. International Women's Day today, it's a global holiday, celebrated on early on March 8 to commemorate the cultural, political and socio-economic achievements of women. It's also a focal point in the women's rights movement, bringing attention to issues such as gender equality, reproductive rights and violence and abuse against women in the area. In the area of technology, we often hear of big names who have made or are making things happen, but what about women? Are they also making an impact in technology, or is there a gap between the genders in this all important space that needs to be filled? I'm very glad to say we have joining us on The Breakfast this morning, Sherwin Rune-Shewe, who is a senior product manager at CHIPA. Sherwin, nice to have you on the program. Thank you so much for having me. And happy International Women's Day. Happy International Women's Day to you. All right. What does this mean to you to have a day celebrated, you know, or set aside to celebrate women and to also push for gender equality? What does it mean to you? I think it's a chance for us to reflect on the progress that we've made because that gap has been wide and because of this movement, hopefully over time the gap is closing, right? So this is a chance for us to think about what are we doing to close that gap? What are we doing to drive representation and success stories among women to improve or promote and advocate for women's rights? All right. So you're saying there is a gap. Let's zero into the tech space. Yes. Do you find that gap? Absolutely. How wide is it? And how challenging is it for you? Absolutely. Generally, in tech companies, you find that at best the really good statistic is women make 33% of their workforce because it's a mild-tombinator space, right? And so a day like this is a very good chance to drive, you know, representation and show the people, show the women who are driving change and making things happen in the tech space. It's also a chance to talk about funding women, right? So in the tech space in Africa today, over a billion dollars has been raised in the African tech ecosystem so far, from January 1st to now, right? It's done over the unicorns and all this. Well, for smaller companies too, on an aggregate, over a billion dollars has been raised, but less than 10% has gone to women focused or led startups. There are VC companies that are trying to move the needle there, like First Check Africa. It's a venture capital company. Absolutely. So they are women focused. They would only fund companies that are led by women or promoted by women, right? So these are some of the ideas that we're hoping to see go mainstream in the tech space, not just in Africa but globally. Why do we have this gap, you know, women led companies having just about 33% of the funds raised so far going to them? What are the small disparities? Well, my first thought is boys club. Very much so. I mean, I think that every other sector was first a boys club and then women had to push their way in. That sounds hard. No, but isn't it that we don't have enough women in... I don't feel, I don't know, when I hear boys club, it sounds like we the boys or the men have kept it exclusively for themselves. Because I am for pro women. You know, I'm sure most of the companies out there, like Flutterwave and Pistach. They are. You know, and Chippa. They are. But isn't it more because we don't have enough women led companies, enough women in the space, if you look at the statistics? I think that there is a consciousness within the companies and the people who lead these companies that needs to come to the forefront of what are we doing to help women take up more space in our sector? How do we promote more women leaders within our tech space, right? How do we have more women front and center leading some of the things that make us successful tech companies? And as you mentioned, companies like Pistach and Flutterwave and Chippa especially, that's front and center in the work that they do, right? And we're seeing it in terms of the results that these companies have. Okay, so let's begin to talk about it. You have mentioned about 33% or 32% in terms of representation, if you want to look at statistics. And we're talking about Africa right now at this point. But some people would say that the reason he's asked, the reason for this gap, why do we have these reasons because we don't have women available, or some people would say that it's because of the cultural sentiment and biases that we hold that have actually not allowed women to break even. I mean, so you have a point where women feel that we're not supposed to, you know, so social alteration is number one. Yes. So you have a situation where you're raising a boy child, a girl child, and then you're constantly exposed to the boy child to certain kind of, you know, items to play with. Yeah. And then you already exposed a girl child to staying in the kitchen and playing with dolls and trying to make their hair and what have you. And so don't you think that this also have contributed in creating this biases? You get to school and they tell you, you know, the girl is supposed not to steal the medicine. Yes. She's not supposed to be a mathematician and all of that. Absolutely. I think that that's an idea that should be in the bin for African homes because women have so much to offer this world, so much to offer technology businesses. And so the conditioning, I made a statement with a woman at Chipper this week where I said every time I speak up, it is in defiance to the conditioning and the upbringing that I've had of be quiet and don't take up space and don't use your voice. Right? So there's work to do there where we condition our girls and boys for boys to respect women and create space for them and be inclusive, right? And for women to promote themselves just as boys are conditioned to, to take up space just as boys are conditioned to. And another thing, you know, driving home to tech is a lot of women think that you know, this is just, I don't know how to code so I don't have space in tech. I've written a few lines of code but that's just for fun. I've never actually written a line of code that would go into production, right? There's space for pretty much every skill set. We need marketing people. We need people, people. We need operations experts. We need partnership experts, right? We need even engineers can be women, right? So there's no role within this sector that is not available. Important. That is not even important to women, right? Because a software developer can write the best code but if there's nobody to promote what he's done, he doesn't have a business, right? So women need to understand that no matter what my skill set is, there's space for me, right? And it's very possible that I'm going to thrive in technology. Every field has them. We had a guest here from the hospitality sector before he came in and she talked about entrepreneurship, challenges women face in entrepreneurial space. Tech is still entrepreneurial because that's where we are right now. But what are the unique challenges that women face in the tech space that are unique to the tech space? First of all, it's this barrier that I've just mentioned where there's this impression, this mainstream impression hopefully this conversation will help put a dent too that if I can't write code, if I can't write Java and Python then I'm not going to thrive in technology and I think that that's something that people's minds need to be subused of. That's the first step, right? I think another step is even when you get in promoting yourself and taking up space and thriving and doing your best work and living your best life, right? It's something that should be promoted among women in technology. Women are fully allowed to be just who they are in this space. So would you say now, you know, looking at Africa would you say that there are policies? Do you say that you have people whether or not they're in government acting and in throwing that you have a lot of women getting involved in tech from the elementary level? So I would credit that effort to the companies themselves because there's so much work that it would take for us to go to the National Assembly, for example, right? But within us and the tech community is so fantastic because it's such a close knit one and so the ideas that we have about being progressive being more inclusive is a shared sentiment. And so there's effort on the company level and as an ecosystem to have more women lead and, you know, promote this thing that we're building from ground up. I don't know if you'd agree with me, Michelle, but I feel that the tech space and the tech sector is one of the more forward-thinking sectors. Absolutely. As far as women issues are concerned, gender issues are concerned, let's call it that. And they try hard, you know, to ensure that there is sort of a modern way of doing things because these are, I mean, you talk about technology, it's modernity. But would you agree with me that maybe women in the tech space or tech sector are seen in a different way or perceived by the larger society now? And the women who are in the tech space and, you know, looking at them, the perception amongst other women in society. So you look at a woman who is in a technology company, maybe as she codes, for instance, so as an engineer, versus a woman who is a lawyer. Do you think that people sometimes misunderstand women in the tech space to see women as maybe being too macho, being too boyish in a way, being too serious, not being girly enough? Do you get that vibe from people who don't understand women in the tech space? No, because you have to really be, like, seriously into the science. So do you get that vibe? Really? I think that... You've never said of that before? Your assumption is... No, it's not an assumption. I've seen... No, it is an assumption because there's so many girly girls in tech. We're always having... Just like yourself. Yes, I'm as girly as they come. I do facials every month and I'm pro-self-care and I'm very girly. So it's a misconception. Didn't buy nails, I wear jewelry, all of that, right? And what we do in my group of friends in tech, we go on self-care dates, right? So that's a misconception. There are people who just choose to be more relaxed because they don't see the need to be girly, but then that's their business. That's nobody else's business. Shouldn't be a thing, should it? That's the beauty of the freedom of being forward-thinking. You're free to be... Just come to the table just as you are. There's no need to be anybody else or to try to fit to a form. Just be. Okay, fantastic. So we have to go finally, but what can we do? You've talked about the fact that women are not being encouraged to go forward there. What can society do to encourage women to be more interested in tech and also to encourage them? Because you're doing great things. Thank you. We can talk about the likes of Elon Musk, the likes of Bill Gates and Co. But there are women who are doing great things. Who have even done great things in these companies that are not being talked about. So would you say, okay, we need to highlight the role of women in technology some more? And what are the measures need to be put in place to ensure that we have more participation? This is very important. I like the point that you just raised. Representation is everything because one of the things that have been a guide to me is you can't become what you don't see. So more women need to see more successful women in tech thriving and being girly and being not girly and being just who they are and thriving because it gives you the permission to think that you can do it too. Right? So that's one. And then education on these are the pathways that are available to you into tech. And finally, I think that the tech ecosystem has done a fabulous job of just building communities around different skill sets to allow people to get into the space. Fantastic. We have to go. Thank you very much for your time. Sean Roon Sherway is the senior product manager at CHIPA and she's given us some fantastic analysis of International Women's Day once again to you. Thank you. Merci. We have to call it a day. Thank you so much and if you missed that and any part of the conversation it's all right to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and do subscribe to our YouTube channel with Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa lifestyle. Many thanks for watching. I am Messi Bopu and see you tomorrow. And I'm Kofi Matelser return tomorrow. Good morning.