 Then a new lesson in Goddamn See it only lets me search or send invites. So I've got to wait till Let me see. I can at least get Chimera in here. So I'll have Crip. I'll have Kip hit Do a request once he gets in here and that's how it'll work Yeah, I'm gonna have to have him send a request to join I got Chimeras But I have to wait till Kips does so I can hit them both in at the same time Because when I go to that screen it immediately after it's done It will make it so I can't touch anything on the screen to add anyone in or even have Comment or anything it just freezes the phone. So Hopefully one more time's all we need. Oh, that's all we need whenever Kip gets in here. Let me know Sorry to keep doing you dirty guys Yeah, you can do up to four people but I have to get oh good I get someone to boot already screenshot and I'd like video That's how we do that one Kip so I'm waiting for Kip anybody got any questions Anything you want to be asking The legion seats crew Get them ready get the good questions ready Should only be a moment. Hopefully Who's I with that fast? I don't know who did I guess it was nobody a Highland Mexican blueberry. Yeah, that's a that's a that's a special one They come here see if Kips gonna rejoin Cake was delicious. I had for my birthday yesterday bring got me a What is that a peach cobbler from Smith's bakery. Oh my god, Smith is the best the best cobbler ever made in the history for a fat kid to love and Rejoice with You got lots of kick Legends ultimate indica question. Let me see if I can do it this way real quick. Yeah, it's only showing the requests. Let's see It's not an order. So I'm still looking for Kip. Hopefully defined if he's in here Always makes it better when you can have the whole crew if we can pull it off. I'm not here yet. Yeah, dude Boomin boomer. I'm a straight boomer when it comes to electronics, apparently Okay Well, should we just run with Chimera? Let's do it So we can get this jamming and hopefully Hopefully if Kip does come in we can try to add him in I might be able to do it that way. What's up? We tried We tried All right, so we're already getting questions about legends ultimate indica Did you work on that one at all? Now that was Kip and Steve. Well, it was really it was Kip Yeah, that was Rob botany ass that I saw him Chirping away though. He's really smart good grower. You guys should follow him. Maybe you're not already does some really interesting shit Definitely the ultimate indica Such a classic fucking story, you know back in the day When they were getting switch one off the ground You know the the the What was it? I guess when they call it ended up calling it sweet to three, but it was like a third back cross to the grapefruit You know kind of like I say Now, you know breeders that don't know what they're doing the kind of rely heavily on back crossing hope that that yeah Hoping that that solves it solves it all out Anyway, you know Kip was owned legends and he Steve actually owned a part of legends at that point in time and so, you know, Kip was over there working in Switzerland at the warehouse in the field and He was supposed to get paid you know a big chunk of The compensation was in the sweet to three beans that had been really hyped up for a year because even had Steve hadn't been working He kind of was like yeah, I was a game out of stock and that was the much anticipated release And so, you know Kip had suspected that he would be getting those what he was promised was you'd be getting a large portion of the sweet sweet three seeds that were to be pre-marketed so he could just turn around and sell those things and When they were loading up when they were loading up the room, I guess they had a few extra lights like maybe you know like 10 15% of the lights in the room Where they didn't have enough grapefruit plants to go in so he took the or take they had all these Ortega plants that were stick around that had rose and solid brought over to Switzerland Or sorry, he brought over the genetic and they'd mom them up and you know had these extra plants And so kids said well, why don't we just why don't we toss these in the room? We've got the space anyway Let's toss these up these or take a plant sin and make an apple in hybrid and When the crop finally came down You know Steve Steve said to Kip. I'm gonna pay you in these Untested f1 hybrid seeds rather than the sweet to three seeds Which was it was kind of a bummer I think forget because you know, yeah Pre-work and those ones were pre-sold really Yeah, but instead he got those the Ortega sweet to three f1 hybrid or f1 type hybrid And so he came back to Canada and he had a he had a couple of shows here and they through a bunch of They threw a bunch of the what became the LUI in that room to test them out and grow them before they sold And they turned out to be actually quite banger plants like they really are Some real f1 hybrid finger. I didn't love the flavor on them But it was like, you know, it was a growers plant Like it made fucking incredible hash so You're so my heady bread is saying the LUI sampled from sativa sisters deep those board was covered in my striped I was that would snow all over the plate when broken up heavy stone That was the cut that they called we ended up calling reds pick Which is was that reds pick? Yeah, that was the one And it was it's you know, like dude, it was amazing plant like it really I don't actually It was amazing growing plant and you'd you know You'd lop the tops off the off the thing at six weeks because they were so big and beefy that you'd have mold if you didn't So yeah, that kind of became the cashcroppers method is you come in and lop the tops off in the six weeks And then give the the rest like another 10 days or whatever. Yeah and Yeah, really popular clone. I mean shit, dude that kind of they had a clone has as well and Like it, you know, they sold trays and trays and trays that clone that that thing for well over a year And it made all over the place So, yeah That's crazy. Yeah, interesting interesting plant Did it end up selling well in seed form? Pretty well, like I think I would think so. Yeah, I think it took like six or eight months before it really caught on You know, you know how it is. Yeah, it takes a cycle for someone to go through it and then You know, you gotta, you know, say you send out 20 30 packs of seeds Yeah, really it takes one person that has a really good job that does a good job with it to Yeah, that's that's an advertiser. That kind of makes it roll And by that point in time, they really did roll and they really they started selling well and uh Yeah So here's one for you. Moon tide says chimera. Do you think you could Be bringing back the blueberry of dj's heyday the more sativa side I Probably not in the same way that he could. I mean, you know what it's like. It's like, yeah You know, you might have like an impression of your buddy's girlfriend, but you're never gonna know her Yeah Right, that's kind of how I feel with it with with with the blueberry stuff. It's something that dj has got his own Vision of what it is um And you know, I think that to get close to what he's doing You know, he'd be the person to go back and find something that was close to what it was We've put out a couple of things. I mean in our blueberry hybrid lines like the The fighting buddha and then, you know, the dolce line I would probably go down those paths more than try to go down like what to work back Yeah, yeah what people call the very city that So yeah, that makes sense Yeah, I hunted down the um, I hunted down the the The blue bonnet path this last time which is the more afghani type and I always had it in my head that Because most of the examples that I'd seen that were super blueberry muffin smelling Typically were more narrow leaf type plants I thought that I was not going to see it as as prevalent in the afghani type But I saw it more prevalent in the afghani type from that specific line. It was really interesting Yeah, I think it was Those generalizations that were put on the the line like we you know, we read about like the moon type old-time moonshine essentially being like You know the frosty indica it's not necessarily clear cut like that Like you'll find no again because they're all siblings or half siblings You kind of find a little bits of each other in every line, right? Yeah They're more predominantly like like the the old-time moonshine is more predominantly like that, but yeah Yeah, did you get to run through any of the moonshine rocket fuel? I did uh Now I did that was one of the did my god. Yeah, I couldn't remember what era he did that That was one of the first releases that he did and it was like right off the bat right off the bat They were like in limited supply I I worked with I worked with him but we you know, I was one of the early Clients to be buying pollen from him. He you know, he had set up these things and was going to be selling pollen And so I sent him like a bunch of money early on for that and It just never showed Like the stuff that showed up. It was so poorly packaged Yeah, like you just we couldn't have been made it a bit like in my opinion there was no business there And he ended up replacing one with a bunch of the blue What was the satellite the satellite number two? So I got like 150 of those in exchange for the pollen didn't work And we grew a bunch of them in California. I wasn't actually that impressed with that line Like I was surprised for being a hybrid It was still pretty fucking in breath like it was still weak And we found a couple of really nice like Again, not nice plants, but the plants that had nice variegation in them. Yeah, like really some really interesting kind of phenotypical patterns But nothing that was banging and you know, like I said, we tested all that stuff too and ran it through the lab And it all came back at like It all came back at like, you know, 8 to 12 percent Which is pretty low, right? Yeah Yeah, so You know, like and I think that that's actually where the dj gets the You know, you hear people talking about that kind of cerebral headspace Yeah, I think that that actually is a result not of The terpenes and the chemistry. It's actually a result of the low cannabinoid content I think when you like when you, you know Got him What's that? Yeah, my technical abilities at this stage in a on a week are really limited guys. It was more my fault than yours Oh, trust me. I'm sure it was more So for those that don't know this is uh red kip from legend seeds He was one of the other head breeders there and uh ran the brick and mortar shop And if you would like to hear more, um, you can also check out our podcast that we just released the other day Season two episode one of breeder syndicate. Happy to have you, dude Yeah, nice to be here. This is my my first one of these ever so I feel I feel so great, you know vulnerable So be gentle, please Love it I feel like I should just lob questions up all night. I mean kip is You know, he disappeared from the scene for a while, but You know, he hasn't really I don't think you've ever really gotten your dues for the amount of stuff that you put in I know it's not about ego or Becoming popular or anything like that for it for you. You do it out of love for the plant But man, you've done some pretty epic stuff back in the day and like I was telling Matt earlier You know the work that you're doing with shelter and helping them get that company off the ground And buying hundreds of kilos making pre-rolls and selling them across the market. I mean They're the consumers are lucky in Canada to have that kind of shit because you know, as you know, the game is pretty weak All right, so it's nice to see people that are out there Um Make it making a change and actually putting stuff out that's a reasonable price and it gets good reviews Yeah Guys, I mean I have a dream job. Um, I am one of the most fortunate people that I know I'm I'm humbled every day. I mean I guys I get to buy weed for a living and pay taxes Right, right. It's a trip man. It's a trip um And that said I get to see the good the bad the ugly across this beautiful country of ours and what's going on and Man the you know the fake news that some of these small outfits get and and and when they come into the scene and are Trying to spread their flower and just like, yeah, it's so tough Like all the cards are stacked so far against this here right now Um, that you know, what I'm loving is finding small bands of of villages that bind together and help each other out Through processors and vendors and distributors and um, and just you know Everybody kind of patting each other on the back and trying to lift each other up But uh, the ankle biters will succeed in the end Yeah, yeah, it does tend to happen. So great garden says most wreck in canada is boof though You know, here's the problem why somebody would say that The provinces they really they like they like they capture everything in that province You can't get national distribution. It's next to impossible from, you know Newfoundland to victoria to get the same weed across and to get somebody's vision out there It's so regionalized and it's ridiculous because If you think about the tax nation the vague that the province uh put on as far as you know The warehousing and the distribution that they are obviously aware of uh, or sorry that they are obviously a part of um, you know It's it's like they're all little fictions like they're all little countries each. It's like, uh, you know having a 12th country In a massive continent that you have to deal with It's so hard. So, you know, you get a micro cultivator that pumps out maybe 30 40 per gene a month And you know, where's that go? Well, that gets eaten up by one province in a matter of like six weeks if it's fire, you know It's gone and man. There's some good weed out there. There's some amazing growers out there Um, there's 200 micros plus in in in canada right now And so are you telling me that all legal weeds buff? Well, I just by the numbers. I don't believe it. I think it's bullshit I mean, I know better. I I puffed it. I've seen the grow as I've walked in that and those in those guys footsteps along the way When shelter first got their first micro that was gourd from north 40 and he was the first micro Cannabis that was branded under his name in canada And you know now we've got 242 years later, man. It's a trip You know, yeah, dude What now what what qualifies someone is a micro license in canada? What what's the qualifications for that? Yeah, so a micro license is 21 25. So basically you can only have 21 25 square feet of canopy in your facility Okay, gotcha Matt includes your moms your clones your cuts your production plants all that kind of stuff Um, but I mean the good ones know how to do it, right? It's all about more fall into the plant knowing your genetics Annoying your uh system. Um, yeah And and in implementing the shit, you know, I got a micro up here man. He's almost pumping out like When average probably 60 kg a month out of that canopy So it's just about the special sauce and the formula Shocking it's all kush, but you know, yeah, right, right But yeah, it's it's knowing your strains knowing how they're gonna express in that particular environment making them shine for for what you have That's it. And also I haven't know you're standing for what the market needs to let me Know it, right? Yeah, um, it's not like we are all back in the day Growing bad warehouses and throwing in some truck into the void Yeah, exactly. You know, um, we actually have to be responsible for what we put out now. Hey that a bitch. Yeah, right, right? Yeah, well, we've seen a lot of this that collapse in the market that we've seen in the us Most there's a collapse in the shit part of the market for sure Yeah, for sure But like here in the u.s. It's like, I mean things are hitting really low numbers all across the board like 350 for for uh Last I saw anyways was 350 for depths, which is insane per pound So, I mean, you know, I don't feel so bad. Canada's got the cheapest legal weed in the entire globe, man You're not gonna get some strings plugged for you guys. Come on. Yeah, right How do you guys make that work up there? It's just Doing it, right? Just you do it and that's that great question money. Yeah Man, you know Efficiency scale smaller drops straighter lines Less government bureaucracy as much as we can The fact is is that that's going to be a slow arduous process. Listen, I've said this before one of the greatest fucking Justices that's going on right now is the excise tax. That's the federal excise tax. It's a buck a gram Yeah, and on top of that, I mean I can go on to the five layers of tax that come on to this bloody plant That's just the biggest egregious one because that was based on wholesale pricing be at $10 a gram Well, that ain't the wholesale pricing these days. No new So we're getting you're getting screwed. I mean the government makes 450 a gram where where a producer could make a buck like It's fucking criminal It really is So anyways, the fact is is that in order to excuse or to change an excise tax on any level in Canada takes an active parliament Yeah So that ain't happening anytime soon, you know, yeah until we get lobbyists An association getting everyone together and backed like every other goddamn industry has to push their agenda to push Their goodwill and their message to the rest of the Canadians But you're not going to get that when you've got large corporations And then you've got the small guys all the mid guys are being They're being wasted and they're already being bought up. Yeah the half and a half knots. It's you know small culture big company Is playing out in canada in an exponential way like a video game Yeah Yeah, and so I mean it's coming down south soon and you know, the only reason why it's not lingo there yet Because they haven't figured out how to take all the money yet. I think that's exactly it. Yeah And you really need lobbyists to make any kind of headway anywhere when it comes to government and taxes and any of it And I think being that we're all a bunch of Cowboys, it's just not our our specialty to be fucking with lobbyists. It's new Yeah, you know what we're We're the we're the giants that the the next generation will say that they stood on our shoulders as we For the guys in the 70s before us and you know back in the day So we all have a part in this long story and we're this chapter. So we do what we do. Hey brothers and sisters We got it legalized You know like Okay, so next step take it further, you know, let's get hemp as is the only thing that should be being grown across the nation to say this from you know under global Dissolve as a word, right? So I mean I can go on and on but uh, yeah, I'm just uh, I'm excited to be a part of it I love what I do. I get to meet so many cool people all day I just feel very lucky. That's all Well, we're glad to have you dude Let's let's let's let's ask kip some stuff kymir that like talk about some of the bigger lines He's been a part of that they can still see today. So they understand who he is Yeah, I mean it was such a period of time and I think a lot of people missed it but I mean legends you guys had all these really interesting little ones like the johnny blaze and You had a time warp blueberry line for a short period of time and what else is the honey bee That ran across the high end And tell us the real story about the neville's haze Yeah, yeah I got so I got the last of the 12 scenes in neville's haze that arian from greenhouse had and his personal stash I picked him up and Yeah, arian was a true friend and I don't give a shit about it But everybody's preconditioned Thoughts might have been about that cat back in the day. He was nothing but kind to us A ryan in our crew and the people we had around us at that time. He was generous with his time. He was uh, and a wealth of knowledge and he was an ambassador to a land We knew much not much about back when we were young to us running around europe. So, um, yeah He was just a good person anyways We used to sell the seeds right so through great canadian seeds and the angstrand cafe and legends So we would go over to angstrand, you know four or five times a year to go buy seeds, right? So that led to many many dinners and good times with the boys Yeah, but he ended up gifting me the last 12 Neville's haze he had from when he got them from the man and so I used those to cross uh dj's Daddy from the second line that we did to the true blue and they have 13 the moonshine the same daddy with uh With the neville says we called it johnny blaze And it's sad that I never personally, you know, to be honest never got to run any of them I was so sad, but we sure sent the pile out and our brother's uh And oh gee A lot of guys screw them out and man. I mean, I just felt like Like just so proud to be a part of it. Some of this stuff came out beautiful You know when you can pick like six brackets off and just roll them in a paper Yeah, yeah I still I still have some of those seeds and I actually used it in a project with the strawberry cream line So still living on Maddie had that turned out Um, I was trying to recreate the strawberry cream Because it was a clone at the time. I only knew it as a clone from cedarberry farms And I was trying to recreate it and I noticed in the room that it was next to the the old blue dream Santa Cruz cut and I noticed like Looking at them you could barely tell any difference and the nose was only slightly more strawberry and the strawberry But I had a lot of the similar smells. So I was like If I want to create this I need a male that's going to be something similar So I went for the johnny blaze and that line still sold today and it's it's awesome, dude It's one of my favorite lines ever That was six the when we made those seeds they went 16 and a half weeks um Yeah, actually maybe it was a full 17. I can't I remember that And they were little pens too a little Absolutely, those were fun days. That was it. Um, we were living beside a NHL player In a grow house on the west side of Vancouver when we made those That's awesome. Yeah, those were good days. Those were good days But uh, yeah, I mean again, just I'm fortunate to have been around a pile of different, um Uh guys that had really tasty cuts and and mentors like dan dj. I mean, you know, he was uh He was everything to me in my career and just in my life. I mean taught me so much. Um Danny was uh, he was an um, it was uncle Danny to us all for a while there in Vancouver when him and carla were living up there Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, it was pretty cool, man. I just again really stupid Yeah, my favorite one again, my favorite one that we ran was the high end that would be the rene blueberry I never got to try that one. I I've always wanted to try is rene still around Yeah, the original cut. I don't have my hands on that thing heard me back like 30 years ago. I can't imagine Yeah, it was actually that that plant as hyped as it got It actually had some really negative traits like you'd be growing it Like a week seven it would shoot a banana and then just rip it And it was like you would just kind of stop growing. It was a really weird one. Yeah Some funk is asking about some Mexican girl. Let's we'll get into that in a second, but I just want to let I want to keep to speak on someone was asking about Garrett and the work that he did with the seed bank originals Can you talk on the seed bank originals and the origin of all that let that out of the bag And maybe just said like, you know, like a personal story on with Garrett. I mean Garrett was such a A nice guy. He reminded me of like, you know, weird Al Yankovic in a way Or the fourth member of rush Wow, Garrett for those that don't know was Magnus seed company that ended up being bought up and kind of consumed and worked into the serious seed company Oh, Magus. Yeah. Yeah, Magnus. That's right. That's what it was. Yeah, but he was Trying to remember what it was it was like motivation warlock, right? Yeah Yeah, it was warlock was his big one. That was like that was the the the hammer of his entire collection It was like sensei seed skunk one Yeah, that's mean that Dominated for a while in the beginning of the canadian scene You know, um more like what was the other one? He had that he had that kind of equatorial leading one, too What was that Ryan? I can't remember his lines. I don't remember. Yeah, it's been a long time since I've actually That's right. Kootenay saying That's right. I have a great story on on Garrett. So my dad was doing a stash in paris For a year and I was working in switzerland and so I decided to go see my dad He was staying at a an old monk villa balloon, uh, like right below same michelle square And uh, so we were hanging out in paris and doing that and I said dad I you know, I got a little business in amsterdam And uh, so the year before is when we had gone and taken all the weed from switzerland up to The high times cup and entered and gotten third for that Last beer the mercy third, but uh anyways So we had got a bunch of weed up there and uh, so there was a bunch of coffee shops It's the oldest money for about the wee we we literally just dropped a pile of keys on those coffee shops Just left it and said we gotta get the fuck out of here We'll be back, you know, yeah So actually p young calls me p young calls me. He's like, hey if you're going to answer him Go to store so plays they owe us this much and they owe us this much I'm like, okay, so I got a little shit list and okay, let's do this So I said dad, do you want to come to answer them with me? You can be my you can be my muscle I gotta go collect some money My dad's my dad's very much like me a small little white man and he's a social worker It doesn't have a harmful bonus body. So this was classic We get there and the first so I got all my meetings shut up, right The first morning is at the bluebird with garrison And uh, so garrids there and uh, he knows that I had this like my tempo ball my greasy tempo ball When I was smoking tobacco that when with tobacco and a nice coffee in the morning Just made my day the way it was supposed to go And uh, so I take my old man and so My dad and I are smoking me like so garrids there and he's got all the nice behind the counter tempo ball He's throwing them all out there and my dad's just like what the where am I, you know? And so we push our puff and I'm where I'm on joint three I see my old man in the corner. It's 9 30 in the morning. I have a croissant in his hand passed out in the corner I'm like, hey pop, pop, we got three more meetings. Like give me a taxi. I'm going back to the hotel Uh, garrison, garrison means like uh, uh, your daddy's uh, not dutch, eh? Oh, fuck. Yeah, I love garrit. Garrit was a good man So he was one of the first guys to come on to legends seeds from europe, uh From because some from someone that an outer Like that not dutch passion that sense. He's not serious not the big six basically He was the first guy and I man, we sold a lot of his seeds. We sold a lot of his seeds. Yeah Uh, he was a good man. I really miss him. He was a good He passed is that what I heard No, he just got out of the game. He just got out of the game. He sold you like It was kind of when like the first kind of downsizing was happening and In the industry and he just he wasn't into it anymore and he apparently made an offer to simon and simon took it so Yeah, it was like 2010 2011 when they merged. I think somewhere around there Right. Oh, that's good. That's a good almost almost nine years after I last out with him. So, okay Well, there you go. Good for him man. He was a nice guy honest I always have what he was going to do very kind very good guy Yeah, his stuff had a good reputation too. It really did like the warlock someone mentioned the bitty early That was another one that he was famous for Right, right. Yeah, you know who this around the same time was phoenix Alice Alice Nina Dude, yeah, dude. He had he had the um the I've been trying to find the perporea tecanensis for so many years in pure form I can't I mean like I have like f gen of it. Maybe somewhere, but like yeah, it's It's hard to find and I as a base purple that breeds true for purple And I have an obsession with purples That's always been on the list and and his stuff's so hard to get over here You're an antho head. Yes um His stuff what the special part of his stuff was it was high altitude bread, right? So he was eating those yields up like 1400-1500 feet man I mean that was some special shit and it wouldn't mold. I mean you could literally throw mold at it It wouldn't mold And you know it what it didn't get I bet if you I bet if you threw through labs now it probably sat at about 14 percent. Yeah, yeah What I mean, but it got you high. It was a good day smoke. It was bountiful Um, and you also know what I think it had Ryan I think it had cedar in it to be honest with you now that I know I can identify that terpene Now I know that taste because I've had that taste before and the first time I had that taste was in the perporea tecanensis Wow Yeah, absolutely Anyways, and then the heaven his heaven was one of his best bars that total equatorial that yielded like a punk Was basically like a durban crossed haze. It was spectacular I've never even heard of that one Yeah, he sold that the heaven and perpene tecanensis and he had a third one that he only ran two lots of from like 01 to 03 I have to go back into my in my page if I remember I have proceeds for three that we bought from them At one point any was it earth beer? Pardon me. Was it the earth beer? It doesn't ring a bell but brother it might be it's just strawberry. It just stands for strawberry. It's a super strawberry strain that he would Okay a lot You know, his nursery was right downtown almost in uh in legato It was like this little concrete compound and you had this This greenhouse inside of it like there are banks all around like he was such a he was the very og original rebel from switzerland back in that That's awesome. He broke all the rules didn't give a flying fuck When the cops were just out pressing. I mean just go run to the hills for a couple months and He was awesome. Well, I really I got another guy that just another teacher in this game Well, that's cool Like I I I've never heard anybody talk about him and I've always wondered about alcedes like who he was how he ran his Shit, so that's pretty fucking cool. I appreciate that Just a total mountain man, uh Pictionation, you know, like just an old italian goat up in the mountains smoking a pair of you. It was a good time That's awesome Yeah Kimber, what else you got? The spo's The c-bank. What's that brother? C-bank original c-bank original Jesus, I guess 20 years has passed right. We're allowed to talk about this shit now. Yeah. Yeah, please do So we started legends and um I we know obviously we didn't we were like a sixth seed company on the internet the world wide web Uh at the time and um, so it was pretty all new right and so All we could do is go across the amsterdam by a bunch of seed come back and you know and sell it there You know, so we sell it and then I started getting to know the canadian growers and one of my old partners knew Ed uh Rosenthal and He had gotten uh, basically his hands on nevels last selections and Callie before he went back to ours before he got busted Yeah, and so uh, we got our hand those were dubbed the seed bank originals And um, so we got a chance to uh, these were we had our hands on they were like 25 30 year old seeds, you know Perfectly, let's just put it that way There was probably 35 40 germ rates But what we were looking for was building blocks to what all the cannabis is we know today. Let's be frank, you know Um, this is this has to do with skunk man. It has to do with all those cats You know, we all know who you're talking about like the big fab four as it were Yeah, um the guys that Are the only reasons the three of us are talking to each other right now. Um, yeah, really and and people fall Oh, it is it's it's the founding father the mount rushmore of cannabis I agree, you know This is fact right like dudes I still I think of every I know of every interaction I've ever had with Dave. I know that ryan would like to forget a few Only because he's the most contangorous sort of man who's always right and thank and god love him for craze sakes because he usually is But to rob, you know, uh to nevel, you know, it's a howard march event if you want to go to that I mean, yeah to bend drunkers for craze sakes like anyway So long story short is we got those seeds uh through a partnership and we are allowed to uh, we got a chance to actually sell them up on Legends and uh, we got a lot of folks got a lot of building blocks Like callio was one of my best hidden secrets on that one and the ortega three both those were my favorite You had three or tickets three Yeah, we had the one two and three it was a hash plant cross a kush cross And a skunk cross awesome awesome We had the original ortega in switzerland and that thing was just buttons of hash I mean it was the purest hash One of the closer land race hash plants I'd ever seen to this day to be quite frank and what I would know because it wasn't bulked up But the resident was the the most intense resident I never had it was so greasy We had those old damn shakers You know, you put that dry bud on the top and it had this silly screen. You just You know, right like that they they were camouflage. They were so funny So we have one of those At the facility in switzerland And everyone would always do it with the ortega because it would just puke it up like and like there's huge fat heads under the microscope and dark And greasy is all I don't like super greasy And now that I know what mere scene Smells and effects are the thing was covered in it. You know, big carry-off in the mere scene. It was peppery. It was like, uh, You know, uh black black licorice, you know, it was just Easy, right? Yeah, and uh Those are the ones you always had the hashbacks with your 15 hashbacks a day That's crazy. Yeah, so that's my experience with those seeds and again just building blocks. That's what I always thought of the mansion That's awesome. Yeah, I know a lot of people didn't want me to hear that story for a long time So thank you very much I know cry babies in their book and stoked as fuck. He finally got to hear the ortega story Well, here's here's what I'll go you one deeper when we got to Switzerland's we uh friend of ours brought over two clones from california One was the grapefruit one was the ortega the original ortega bomb Yeah, and those and so that's what we brought over to switzerland So that's a friend of ours brought those over for us. So that was pretty funny cuts in the suitcase Yeah, that's awesome. And they made it and they made it and uh sold a lot of clones over in europe and You know, I'm sure we started a lot of breeding lines Oh, yeah So what was so special about calio for you? The flavor uh, it was the first time I experienced any kind of um, uh What I know now to be limony lemony terpinoline I didn't know it then obviously I didn't have the knowledge or understanding of the vocabulary or the coas in front of me yeah, um, but um That I know now and so it was that I'm a terpinoline junkie. I mean if I could do lines of it all day, I would I swear to you I do that. I think it makes everything taste way better birds of a feather my man. Yeah Some people hate it It's just one of those things like if you love it you you can appreciate how much it adds to flavor and the high Yeah, yeah Agreed, you know, it's funny because I find the selling to this generation. They're all gas heads You know, like just Total gas heads bring me the gas. Fuck the tropical stuff the exotics. Give me gas. Give me gas I just hear it all day and I just start feeling like an old man sometimes And I know I know people are gonna kick me in my head if I don't ask both of you what is the most Traditionally smelling like a skunk line that you have been around Like traditionally smelling like uh, like uh, like a skunk that's been run over a mile away that kind of skunk What's the most traditionally skunk lines you've come across? And it was called bc skunk back in the day Yeah, like early nineties and you know I remember hearing about like as a name branded Thing before I knew that you knew that there was branded cannabis or named cannabis varieties, right? Yeah, um But you you know what happened. I mean every step growing it because it was You know during the the kicker door in period of time Yeah, you know, you'd lose it Where people would you know, you could have the cops showing up and you're in your house everybody stopped growing it But um, they've recently identified a chemical Like I can't remember what it is. It's like one mbt. I'd have to look it up because it's got a name like this Yeah, but they've actually identified the compound that's actually responsible for that smell So Tile ester Um, I think it's an aldehyde I'm actually not an aldehyde again. I'd have to look it up Well, so that would make sense that just from the putrid of putridness of it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, well, yeah the very the fact that you just need a little bit that has a big effect but The point is that you Once you once you know what lip it is on the chromatograph It's pretty easy to start picking up plants that have higher In it, right? So But anyway, whatever I'm not a chemistry nerd in the type of like Um Someone's gonna take someone's gonna take a diverse set of population and start looking for That blip right that peak in the on the chromatograph and then once you find it then you just start breeding it It'll come up like that's what we do Right. We've done it with thc Sorry You were talking about in the podcast And and the the expense of it is quite quite high for me doing it, right? Yeah, yeah, you have to do you have to take it listen once you've done it You won't go back to the other way like I guarantee it Or you'll you'll cry to have to go back to the other way And you'll just you'll do everything you can including selling your children to like find a way to pay for the testing, right? Yeah Because it's it's like it's so Night and day difference between doing it the old school way just on your nose You know, I've had a lot of people kind of like be quite resistant to the whole lab lead breeding thing Or the science lead breeding thing and the truth is dude is it's it doesn't take anything away From the way that we've always been doing it. It just gives you another set of data to look at and to refine your knowledge like When I finally got access to the lab, we would grow hundreds of hundreds of plants from across And I would save a little mug for each of them And then when I had the labs in front of me I'd go through them individual by individual look at the lab report Not even looking at the butt just looking at the lab report and holding the butt or anything my nose enroll it Yeah, yeah Right and then and going through them sequentially Um to try to train my nose to like what is okay So I know that there's a slight difference in the cell and the smell can I see that On the graphs. Yeah, right because we've we made graphs and everything so that I find when you have lists of of Like terpene names and terpene values as like a You know like 1.3 7 whatever whatever expresses a percentage It's kind of meaningless Right because you're kind of like always scrolling through the list and trying to add it up in your head When you take those numbers and you make a graphical representation of them We you know, we did graphical Like essentially peak line bar graphs so that you could see the quantity But we also made every terp its own color Oh, that's a mark and in that way Like it was a pain in the ass at first because you'd have to remember. Oh, yeah Pining is green. Oh, Samina's orange. Bid carry off lane is blue But once yeah, you know after a hundred lab And I look like a samples You knew which was which And so you didn't even have to like look down a column and see how much beta carry off lane is there You would look at the graph immediately and be like boom beta carry beta carry off lane is the highest peak Right. Yeah, and then what that did is it was it kind of reduced the scent picture Into a graphical representation that your brain could recognize Yeah You were being taught and you didn't know you were being taught Exactly Yeah, when Ryan got back from california And he showed this he showed he explained this all to me I I felt like literally I was the dumbest person in cannabis this item Um, you know and and marion has such a beautiful way of being able to describe things to people and and bring it down to its lowest common denominator, so you have full understanding Uh, and it's just it's amazing. Sorry ryan. I had to bust that out because uh, the way you've explained it is really perfect Yeah, well, it was you know, I we listen. I got lucky working with mark lewis and matt geesey I mean they're both top top notch chemists And so it was really like kind of spoiling to not have to figure that whole component out Right, it was like these are the chemicals that we want to be looking at and they would go and do all the work Right and then come back with these lab reports that were just fucking like super informative And like I said, you could glance at two graphs Somebody asked if it was a spider graph. There was a spider graph for flavor But we essentially had a series of graphs that did You know, you'd have you'd have a series of graphs, you know in a all on different rows But one individual would be on a column going through all the graphs And so just by looking at these four graphs, you could get an idea of which plant was had the most. Oh, look, steve habas here plant the haba He's uh, actually someone that's been doing work with these same graphs. Uh, but i'm just talking about that. Oh, awesome Um, haba for those of you that don't follow him is he was kind of behind the lemon crush that won the Emerald cup above few years ago. I think 2017. Oh, wow Um, right. Yeah, very very talented and educated plant reader in his own right um But yeah, like when you have the tools to be able to like essentially visualize these things that we call smell You know like here like for example When we when you smell something you're not smelling one thing You're smelling an orchestra of compounds all together at the same time Right. And so it's kind of like listening to a symphony or like a like a piece of classical music You don't necessarily hear Like the oboe Right. Yeah, unless unless you really train your ear and then you learn how to like pick out the oboe in that overall mix Right. So um Yeah, it's It's something that we haven't done well Even amongst the cannabis breeding community, but I think that we need to really do that There's a book in If only a book that david wassen showed that has Called lene du vang and it's it's it means the nose of wine And it's a book that you open it up in scott lake. I don't know 20 or 30 little vials that have all the different scents that you know Like smoke and leather and tobacco like all the notes that they use to describe cat or sorry wine And so I've always wanted to do one of those like a really complete one For cannabis, right that would have all the terpenes. Yeah, you have a bunch of You know a bunch of Like all these other volatiles that we're talking about the aldehydes and the esters and files whatever you can get your hands on And you know put a little booklet with it so that you can really put this out because right now we have like I mean, there's some people that are kind of starting to figure it out Just because like for example kip like kip's in a job Where he has hundreds of growers contacting him all the time looking to sell their weed And he needs a way to be able to separate segregate like what's good from the bad And so the tool that we have now is a lab report, you know show me the cla And it brings you the you know the certificate of analysis And of course it tells you how much cannabinoids are in it because that's important everybody on the rec market wants Now the thc is in it But more importantly it becomes about About scent right and like you have to have some kind of lab measure and so when you're sorting through like Hundreds of samples of weed that people are trying to sample to sell you You and you're seeing all the lab reports you get you can actually start with like oh look here's one That's pining dominant all the mere seeing one dominant one's going to another pile and the tropinoline dominant one's going to another pile And you can see it's like it's kind of just like taking a shuffle pack of cards Like face up and then sorting them into their suits Right like when you when you start looking at them only based on the chemistry You you realize that it's like oh, there's just a bunch of categories Right and then yeah everything falls into one of those categories Do you have any idea how much mere seeing beta karyophiline limony and I see in a day? I don't even see the sample I'm just like yeah, okay, I got it You have some form of I've been digging into the rosin stash a little bit lately and going through and You know, I'm finding plants that when we separate at the rosin you can actually I can tell that they have the same terpene profile But they have like different profiles of all the hyzer esters And so it's like you really get this idea where you can actually start to Like we can break cannabis apart into you know cannabinoids terpenes aldehydes esters if there's maybe a thiol class then maybe that comes in there as well But it's really like in each of those scent molecules or not the cannabinoids because they're not scented But they're important It is that it's really just us layering All these different combinations of the individual suits in every candy chemical class be it like thc or cbd In the cannabinoid class or like yeah terpene or for myrcine or whatever, you know In the terpene class and it's like we're just literally We can only put it together so many ways Right, but there's some of these chemicals that like if you put it on or you take it apart Or you take this one chemical out it totally changes the scent Right and so that that like beta cariat polyne myrcine dominant class That is ever present on the market. It's like og and cookies and everything in that flavor class That's like those aren't even the chemicals that are responsible for that gassy scent Right. Yeah, it's just right when they fall in that background and you get that scent modifier That's when you get like that really funk to it Again orchestra. It's about the orchestra and I'll be and and Yeah, I think that that's where it becomes, you know the crybaby was talking about perfumes earlier It's like that's what like being a perfume. Yeah, it's really about it's like you're learning how to put together these different It's like you're being a chef really, right? Yeah, really And it's it's a it's a super kind of deconstructive simplifying approach, but like Anybody that's really into this shit like I really suggest trying to do that like try to find a way where you can Get yourself a bunch of lab profiles and the standards like having like I said either have all these different buds Or even better this the like limanine and terpenaline and teaching yourself that palette Is like you you can't put into words how powerful it is because again when we're like look when we're talking about I'll show you know about canadian funky 50s But like when we're talking about like color, you know, we can both look at this and immediately understand What it is Right. Yeah, we have a reference point where we can both point to this and say look that is the color that we're talking about You can't do that with scent Yeah, because like Again, because it's an orchestra of of scent We can't point to any one part and Without each having a common language agree that we're talking about the same thing And that's why you hear people using these words like Cedar-y or earthy or floral or herbal. Yeah, but really like that's not fucking helpful Like no, no it isn't you know, so and it's just one of those things It's like you have to you have to teach yourself that skill, right And for breeding with the labs the fact that you can I mean the traditional method I mean we all agree is kind of like a shotgun mail method where you pick a mail based on something just Something and seeing how it breeds is completely different But if you know, it's actual terpene profile and everything you can actually see how he's breeding Which is so much more important than than just the shotgun method. Yeah, like you said, it's a whole another tool to add to the toolkit Yeah, and it's like, you know, I've also like I've also learned you know like Once I have that set of tools, I don't always have to rely on the lab Right because it's like you might cross and it's like I can recognize the profiles just because I recognize what the scent is I don't need to send that sample to a lab unless I'm trying to quantify Right, that's the other thing. It's like, you know, the terpene profile is kind of like the quality like what the type, you know You know like a really like a Mendelian type way But really what you're also trying to do is breed up the level Right and so that's where it's really important to have the lab It's like Because you can't it's kind of hard to do that without like You know if I handed you a 3% and a 4% terpene but Like almost everybody in this chat room including the people in the lab. I think would have a hard time doing that Yeah Yeah, Kim one's one of those ones that tests high like four to five percent mercy It's crazy. It's so much different than the other chem dogs the chem one. It's more of nl5 haze based I think But it carries really high terpene content with the mercy Yeah, I've got all the fingerprints from those. I collected all that stuff off of off of spy rock So I'm not oh, yeah That's where you came. Can you tell us some spy rock stories? Can we have some spy rock stories? Want to protect the innocent? You don't have to You don't have to see some cool stuff out there, right? Yeah, well, yeah, I mean I went there first time in 2011 and it was like You know, I it's hard to imagine the context of what it was like back then But it was a totally different world, of course, and I remember being so blown away We're up there and at the time every property on spy rock There's like 4,000 properties on there and like at the time every property And I don't think I'm being like Too hyperbolic and saying every property had like 99 trees on it Yeah, yeah, I bet so people were pulling down like, you know 500 pounds on a property There was a lot of weed coming out of there And yeah, I don't know how much time you spent up there, but they've got this incredible radio station called k mud Yeah, which is like it's oh you gotta check it out, dude. It's fucking really cool It's essentially red. I think they call it redwood radio. So it's like Laytonville and You know all the way up the the corridor kind of arcada It is it is I was blown away like because you know, like We're you know, I was a foreigner also keep in mind So it was like I was aware that this was federally illegal And this but this like one this one mountain Is essentially pumping out like Jesus dude, it must have been in the tonnage of flower And and everybody was sitting around during harvest listening to k mud Radio, which is this was essentially gorilla. It was like grower radio. It was community Radio, it was it was community radio. So it was paid for by the growers. So they were doing their They were doing their fundraiser, you know, like npr always is the fundraisers They were doing their fundraiser for the year During harvest because everybody's sitting around with their eyes in the chair and scissors And you know, you they they'd be playing all these weed songs reggae or whatever kind of esteemed songs and then it would you know, the dj would come on and be like There's a grower up on spy rock that is going to match Any donation so if you're a new guy to the mountain It's your first year and you're trimming and you want to donate some money to you know to k mud radio You know this grower j over on wherever is going to match the first five people's honor box or whatever And it was so it was really cool because it was like that's rad It was like the pirate radio signal being broadcast out But the really fucking cool thing was that it was like, you know, the news breaking news was like You know, they got someone pulled over over down on whatever road or the helicopters are flying in this valley today You know, like it was they were they were they were the eyes in the sky That's what did that it was fucking cool, man. It was it was like and when I realized that I was like dude Mendo is fucking On a whole another level of organization and culture and that's the thing Like can't get lost in the in the transition. Is it like these people cut out a fucking way of life up there? Yeah, you know, like the growers all banded together and built a school on the mountain because they didn't want their kids going down the valley And like saying, oh, yeah, my daddy grows trees for a living or whatever. Exactly. I think that's so Teach your children well, isn't that the same? And I mean, I mean every year, you know, they would like all the growers would save some of their trucks Or their branches and they'd be given to the school and the school would learn how to make paper from it Oh, wow You know, that's wild. Well, it's just like just like they do in Gilroy with the with garlic town, right like Gilroy Yeah, yeah, it's like, you know, the whole culture is around garlic but You know, it makes it's it's totally normal and that was the thing that was so impressive to me that it was like fuck this is so normalized and Even in illegal markets or in a legal District or whatever the federal, you know, the district of the states going to face it all that weeds going back to back east Right, like sure. Some of it gets sold in dispensaries, but most of it can't now Yeah, right. So money's not there. It's all interstate or black market shit And still it's a fucking huge culture, right? Like it's it's persistent Right, you don't get that kind of that doesn't develop in here. Like those are like systems that develop over the decades Right, so I don't know to me Mendo and Humboldt the eternity like that whole zone is pretty special Yeah, you know um So yeah, I got a lot of I got a lot of love for those folks on on spy rock because they're just so fucking balls out Yeah, I think gene gene gene is a spy rock boy if I remember Yeah, yeah, it's it's beautiful up there, man. It's really beautiful I remember at the top there's this like rock outcropping where there's like there's these weird patterns that are cut into the rock and they think it's like It was like a native map that they had put up on the top of this mountain so that you could like You know, you could stand overlooking this valley and you could essentially see the different watersheds and which Tribes were living in which watershed, right? Isn't that why it's called spy rocks? Like for the kids the kids look out area spy rocks looking out for the cops Oh, yeah At the top of the mountain, there's a big like it looks kind of like a mohawk stepping up out of the top of the mountain So I think that that was the spy rock, you know But I don't know where the origin was but yeah, it's like people have been living there for thousands of years Yeah, that's why we think isn't it like in european terms and pakoras, but it's like there is people that were living up there for You know eons Yeah, it's it's cool, man so Is there anything you could speak on in the tom hill range or that you want to talk about there or any of the work you saw? Yeah Tom's a funny guy like he's He's pretty brazen on the boroughs But he's I don't really find him like that Yeah In real life until he gets like, you know a few beers at him and then he's First time I met him he fucking lit me up about writing something about single-seed descent in that horre buck like Years and years ago Yeah He's like He really gets into the minutiae on the breeding stuff, but he doesn't have a lot of space to be doing that You know, he's someone that I would love to see get a field Right. Oh, yeah, and put a leash on him so that he couldn't or one of those shock callers so that he couldn't leave the property Getting trouble On the fucking grow, you know shiny objects He could be doing some interesting stuff. I feel like he's like wasting his talent up there, but Yeah, I got nothing but love for him. He's a good guy Now how about some of your um, the Watson stories as far as breeding goes Is there anything you could talk about with that? There's so many. I mean Listen, you know how it is with David. He's such a private individual. Yeah. Yeah, for sure that Like I really want him to tell those stories because that's how I learned them, right? I think to a degree too begging to have him tell them Oh, I know I know and he like it's gonna be a thing. It's gonna be a challenge to get it done But it's important because like I don't you know If it did come that Dave were to pass then I would start sharing some of these stories. Yeah, you know Yeah, you know because there's knowledge there So much that he that just things that he taught me about like Collecting pollen or like, you know, he did like these epic epic Like I'll tell you some interesting stories one day, but like oh, yeah, Dave found a way Years and years and years ago to work within the system Um Like with the within the existing hemp world, but get work done like get work on drug cannabis Whether it was like producing tons of seed or like, you know, like he really figured out Ways to operate in both sides Legally, yeah, he is like he was compliant Right, like he was following the terms of his license or whatever it was doing and and And so, you know, like everybody, you know, everybody kind of knows about Dave's seed collection Well, there's there's also a pollen collection Right, there's a pollen collection that's bigger than most people's seed collection. Like it's fucking huge um And you know, I just when you start thinking about Like for example, did every time you throw a pollen are you collecting pollen? No, why not? I have always had a hard time storing it and then when I go back to use it It's just not viable and I waste a whole round on it Yeah, well, so he's like he's figured that all out. So I yeah He's got like jars of pollen like you can walk into a room crack a jar out of the freezer and toss it in front of a fan And then, you know, we're talking like 15 20 year old pollen. Yeah, that's crazy getting full seed full seed set So, you know, that's one of the things I'm going to be doing as I as I move forward on the next Round of really really serious breeding is setting up Like pollen collection so that every time you drop in pollen you you have satchels of that pollen Right little handles or whatever that you can go back to because it's just It's such a little amount of work to do that Versus having to go through the process of initiate a plant and get more pollen from that genotype again Right, it's like you may as well do it So I was saying that on that one of our little feature cannabis podcast the other day, but it's like, you know I'm all about like, you know and Dude from rebel grown I'm forgetting his real name right now Yeah, I don't know Jay but rebel grown I think his name is j but he's like, you know, he was talking about like for example when you're You know, you got you got a parent Or say you're making an s1, right? So you've made a cross and then you do a selection and So you've now you've got your your f1 seed that you're growing through the cross that you made if you find a plant that you're You want to sell In that generation like you may as well Self that plant but also pollinate it to both of the parental Generation At the same time because you got the pollen flying anyway, right? All you're doing is sticking a clone in there to collect even if you get a hundred seeds or a couple hundred seeds I mean that's enough for like a breeding project. It's not a commercial But it's like, you know, you've got that in the bank or in the ball Yeah um Yeah, so just a little things like that, you know what I mean Trying to be a sugar brain Well, that's like this all that's most of this stuff came from Dave Right, not necessarily the selfing things, but like Just opening my eyes up to like Different ways of doing it not getting kind of stuck in the same thought process that we all get Stuck in through passing info around on forums or instagram, you know, I mean exactly Yeah, we get stuck in a rut So that's why it's so cool when you get all these new people coming on, you know Into the community from outside You know, like the cinch angel cinch angel guy. I don't know if you see him. Yeah. Yeah He's posting some really great information online, right? Yeah, and it's like that's the real beauty of legalization is that We now are not like dirty untouchables Yeah, we get to associate with all the rest of the people in society Right and and learn and benefit from them Right, so I don't know. I'm ranting. No, no, but that's That pollen tech I want to shoot it I mean really I had such a hard time storing pollen it and ruined so many crops Trying to use stored pollen and and I mean I go through the method of Using a pollen screen, you know to make sure all the male parts are out. Let it dry Put it inside of a airtight container that's dark, you know in in the fridge or freezer and it just fucking never works Yeah, well the drying it properly is a big big thing Maybe that's drying it properly is a big thing and then making sure that it's frozen. It stays frozen Like he's got a dedicated freezer That makes sense. Yeah, listen some of these things like they become like possible when you have Scale like you can't really do some of the shit on on like bedroom scale. You can play around But it's like it's really hard to really do it, you know But that's like the reason for sharing that is that I want you to take it Like I want everybody to take that stuff and you know, those are the those are the things that Dave has taught me That I would love for him to share with the rest of the community. It's just You know, I think part of the reason is that that we have all these people that have just trashed him online For years and years because you know, partly because they were jealous I mean like you know kip was talking about arian before But like one of the reasons people don't like arian is because he's successful And he's fucking really good at what he does and he makes a lot of money. Yeah people are jealous Right people are jealous like that's the truth um And the same thing happened with Dave he got the licenses to work in holland when when it's a dutch dudes That lived couldn't figure out how to get the licenses Yeah, and and he figured out which you know, which path to take to get the trophy You know and they hated him for it And and so that's where all the stories started coming from was what it was based in chelsea And I tell you dude like after knowing david and learning from him for so long He's the real fucking deal, you know, and anybody that says Otherwise they just don't notice like when people I see people start barking shit about like Watson being a fucking de agent or whatever it is. It's like, I'm just like, oh, well, this guy just doesn't know Right. He's like he's self identity. He's identifying himself as someone that doesn't get it because Like dave the real deal like and he's done. Yeah, that that's that's been passed That's that's been passed around for so long. I was involved in it I mean, I thought he was a d agent because of what neville told me directly, you know And I think it and it takes a long time for stuff like that to die out But with him not interacting much and not I mean, he shouldn't have to defend himself if it's not true, right? But with him not there's not a lot of input from it. So people just run with it and it's it becomes lord Yeah, and you know how these things are it's like You know, you have a negative kind of something happens in your life And it's like you got to deal with it like some other people talking about it all the time And you deal with it and it goes away, but it's like some of those things It's like they just never go away like people just keep bringing it out no matter what and like When when truthfully like and I will say this like believing in a hundred percent There is nobody live on the fucking planet that has done more for cannabis than david botsom like that is the fucking I would agree. I would agree without a doubt Including like, you know founding and funding the international hemp association, right? Like he created a hub in that process and brought all the individual researchers in the world Gave them all a central hub place to call home And that created a sense of community for the cannabis Like the whole industry like the global cannabis industry at a time when The dea were fucking knocking countries off left right in center Right, so Yeah, you know, I would love to have david Answer all these questions and just have just sit there and be like I wouldn't even want to be I just want to draw the information out of Right because I know a lot of the stories now. So it's like, I know what questions to ask to get them to talk but he's done some like just Absolutely incredible things with cannabis And if he doesn't share those stories um While he's around there has to be a movie made to document it for history because it's like The level of epicness is like right Like just what I know for a fact is it would be a crazy fucking movie all of it Yeah, yeah One dinner's worth of conversation to easily do a movie Andre but dinner with Dave easy easy You can get lost down so many roads of his incredible intellect and adventure Yeah and balls You know, I mean he like he firmly believed that it was the right like he told me a story about being in Morocco And getting like sickness and you know in Morocco, they're not with toilets It's just like a hole on the floor kind of thing, right? Yeah And so he's like having some Viral or some bacteria just like go through his system and decimate him and he started smoking hash on the while he was over the hole so to speak And it immediately realized that cannabis had medicinal value. It was like it couldn't work for him Right and this is back before anybody Had really considered like the cannabis was medicinal like we're talking like 60s here. Yeah And just made it his life's work to like take that as far as he could and you know, you know order farm stories and the gw and all the stuff that people have said If you can just distill that down to like the few truths that exist in there Dave had the fucking first medical marijuana company in the world Yeah, he did right like there was no one else doing that back then and I think that's where a lot of suspicion came from You know that he was just he pulled it off. How do you do it? Yeah, and jealousy right too. Yeah, like resent exactly that he figured out whenever nobody else kid and you know He you know, yeah, I don't know. I got nothing like a thing say about David. I mean in many ways. It's kind of a father figure to me You know kip and and these dudes had met him well before I had Marcus Richardson They do him before and Dave and I used to just speak online but when when I met him He was really rude to me like the first time Like he essentially like turned his back to me and But that's generally how David meets people by the way I'm sure he has a punch for me, but that's okay I take a punch to meet him Well, I I had the the key to the secret club um of Dave of david's and it's essentially like if you have The five star the six star hash or like an incredible You know a little jar of rosin or something like that like something that's truly fire And Dave will sit down and chat with you. You know what I mean? Like he's so passionate about it That it's like if you have if you have the goods They he has to give you respect because you you don't just end up with a jar like this You know what I mean? Yeah of a truly top top top top shelf stuff Yeah, like you have to be an artist or how at least have an appreciation for Making and finding the best and if you have that then you're Dave's Kindred soulmate, right because that's his only goal in life is to find the best I have a little tag on to that when I first met Dave He was walking through our facility over in europe and uh, he's a very intimidating figure and he's a big guy big taxis Yeah and uh So, you know we as he goes through the facility He just kept taking his wooden matches and letting them and hitting this bubble that he had on this tiny little pipe And then the drop the match You literally like a treasure trail can follow where david's been through all the Matches on the channel throughout the facility like through doors around corners It was like some kind of you know denny's treasure mount for kids So is he a big hasher as opposed to a flower smoker is he more to hash or I've never seen him smoke flowers never Wow, that's pretty cool. That's a good little insight into his brain Yeah, he's a pure resin farmer He is this thing that he says he'll tell you one story He tells me that he's I've heard him say a few times when he was in afghanistan We're talking like late 60s. He and his wife We're sitting around with a bunch of old men the babas and the village and they were smoking Bubbly bubblies of the the finest hash that they had And david was over there collecting seeds, right? Like he was yeah fine stuff to bring back and so he asked this old afghan stand dude for Some cannabis so that he could get nuts. He didn't say so I can get the seeds, but he's like yeah Yeah, do you have the flowers and he said Like like every everybody stopped talking and it was just like dead silence and one of the men said to the city The man looked at him like he was a piece of shit And he said Hashish is for men Cannabis flower is for women and slaves We're talking like this is old school, you know, yeah But david explained to him no, I want I want the flower so I can get the seeds and take it back to california and grow plants To make my own hash and he was like that was it that was acceptable That's funny so Dave was I would love to know if you if you know when was the first time he was encountering afghanis was he one of the first people importing the seeds of afghanis to the u.s in the late 60s I'm not sure. I mean he did he's always kind of gone through afghanis. I mean even when they were in um At horde farm like he was always screening shitloads of afghani seeds because people were always coming back from there with different lots But he said generally it was shit like it was not what you wanted You gotta remember they got pretty spoiled or spoiled early on with like, you know, like your neighbors with the haze brothers, right? So he had like I think it's hard for people of our age to understand that there is a time That was pre like afghanica Right. Yeah, most people our age don't know that it came in the you know late 70s or the 80s That's when it gains popularity and and so when it did come. I mean rob. I think it was rob We wrote an article on it For high times, but it was that you know, they high times had like a ban the bud issue It was like we need to ban indica because it's like fucking up our shit Right. There was like a movement in the community. It was like that's why I stopped crossing it indica and everything Because it's ruining our nice highs from the colombians and the mexicans Right, did you make it so brilliant? So ahead of this time really, right Yeah, like now with cookies. I mean people want to ban cookies from from genetics because everything's cookies. Everything Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be the first person to sign up to the application Right Yeah, I'm part of the problem though because I use it too. So the fuck do I know This is super gas too. So I'm like, you know, I'm also Guilty, but I really do Try to push the the different terpene profiles because there's just some stuff I mean, yeah We came across this one thing was like a piney like it had almost no other terps But it was like a lot of piney and a lot of limonene and dude this shit was Zippy zippy zippy. It was like yeah, and focused and just high energy Um, you're not talking about you're not talking about last summer No, no, no Well, I first came up to pr. I had a bag of it Um, I don't know if you tried anything. I was calling it the limon pine Um, yes, okay. Yeah, okay, but again, it's in that it's just in that very like equatorial family side of things Didn't yield or shit. You know what I mean? Like it was a terrible plant to grow But it was a lovely effect and the rosin from it was like You know took took some down to marcus and we pressed up or a couple ounces of it and it was fire as fuck But um, you know, you'd want to be growing that stuff in large cheap greenhouses outside Oh, I'm sure because indoors it just didn't make sense for the real estate, you know, yeah Those things are big and burly and not a lot of yield on some of them Yeah, and somebody was asking about the Guerrero line Oh, yeah, let's talk about that one blueberry That was one of those plants. So I'd been playing with those seeds for a little bit somebody sent us a bunch of old stuff legends used to actually Would people would be like, oh, I have these seeds. I want you to get in your hands. I just say send them legends Because they have p.o. Box, right? So yeah And anyway, we found these these this old Mexican and screened through a bunch of them and They were gangly and like just unruly as hell And when we were making the seeds for the blueberry stuff, I just thought I was like, let's get one of those in there And you know, I think one plant must have yielded like it was, you know, it grew huge And it is probably in the like five to 10,000 seeds from that one plant But the the way they came together with the blueberry. I mean, you know, the blueberry kind of has that phenotype There's the two phenotypes. There's like the kind of more compact round Classic bud, but it also does like those kind of knuckly buds Or they're like kind of like little fox tails. Yeah, yeah When that got into the mexican That made some crazy expressions Right, like they're just the flowers that were like long sets of bracts or like Yellow unfoxed. I remember what the The I remember what the cross looked like in pictures. Yeah real remind me of the picture of lamb's bread and jason king's Canada bible real long super long nothing fox tails yeah So that's you know, that's still a fun one I really want to dig into that line, but it kind of like I'm kind of hoping that someone I'm like in the Caribbean says hey come and plant like, you know Five acres down here for selections because that's where you'd want to do it It's just it's too it's too hard to do Indoors, right and in Canada unless you are tarping that stuff You're not going to get that ever to flat like to finish flowering. So yeah Yeah, these are the fun things that happen with like legalization happening all over the world as we can legally move Germplasm to these new districts and set up a fucking screening station, right? Yeah Yeah, I have a bunch of stuff that I would love to run but And that people have asked me if I'm going to work but the realistic part of it is I'm never going to see the Ultimate expression of it unless it's running a proper place to even see which you can select Well, I'm really hoping that this latest project that I'm working on is going to afford, you know It's We're going to get some space to to do some cool stuff some cool work And I was saying to keep rolling tonight like I don't want to make it about the Ryan show You know, if we've had a chance to like really explore Dude, all of my friends that have interesting seeds, you know, are going to be welcome to come and You know be part of that. However, that looks like Is it going to be Canada? It's international, but well, there's going to be a location in Canada. Yeah Very excellent Yeah, so the idea is to kind of have nursery services to to the new districts that are opening up all over the world Right. That's awesome. And so the idea is to find a like a royalty model that is that works for breeders So that they want to be part of it and they can opt into whatever degree of participation they want to or not And then we'll essentially offer nursery services so that it'll help people get into these markets globally Right because it was one of the things that was really fucked up about Canada It's been it's been a real problem as the industry grows Is that there was no central place that had a bunch of different good varieties that you could work with You know, I mean, yeah, there's hundreds of excellent cultivars like across the globe Right, but essentially like people are like trying to start these like multi billion dollar companies With like three seeds they bought off the internet from kip You know what I mean? Yeah, one of these massive massive big like pubcos where we're talking like the top three players When they started their bank their bank They did the same thing that all the beginners do is they went and got like a hundred different types of Named varieties, but they got a three pack of each Yeah, yeah, and it's like you'd be better off getting three packs and a hundred of each Yeah, right Right because then you can actually do a real selection But yeah, again, it's like that total lack of understanding of cannabis To the point of like you think that you can grow three things with a name on it And they're all going to come up looking the same like that's fucking delusional Yeah, that's highly delusional Very delusional But at the same time it's like everyone runs to one side of the boat Then everyone runs the other side of the boat then they go to the back side and they go to the front side I mean, it's it's cookies. It's wedding cake. It's gelato. It's mac wine. It's I mean, it just it just keeps The problem is keeping it in vogue. I mean you've got to make an iconic cultivar To get maybe two year run out of it at the at the way the market is right now. Otherwise you're 10 months. You're out Yeah, and then that's just the reality of unfortunately what it is So how so how does that play with what you know, rye's talking about? And genetics and and how do you because nursery spend all this time the breeder spend all this time perfecting these Beautiful cultivars for specific morphological Grows in specific paradigms of growing and they have all this work on them They can literally tell the but to feed it every bloody day like it's a plug-and-play Like a crop a point set up, you know, yeah Then all for it to be out of favor in 10 months Yeah, me and csi were talking about this the other day and We're both believers in testing like running your own shit So you know what your own shit is so you can see it in front of your face So you know how that mail breathes, etc But at the rate the market's going it's it's almost getting to the point of where testing will Flush yourself out of the market No, I was just gonna say what I found effective In the industry in a short in the short snaps how we've seen is guys who roll, you know, sorry companies that roll four bars Roll them just roll them. And so like you can get Like three or four you might pull a year off a single bar, but you're rolling four So it buys you extra time and it keeps you relevant and it keeps you fresh and it keeps people's interest in you because Like fly like they just like they forget like they're like nuts consumers, man. What's new? What's hot? What's new? What's hot? What's new? What's hot brand loyalty? There's no brand loyalty. There's no cultivar loyalty There's no flavor profile loyalty. There's no loyalty Yeah Funny thing is saying that I mean I I agree what you're saying is to a degree but like In the states, we've seen this thing where there actually is brand loyalty or not. There is cultivar loyalty Because they can market it. They can make it a culture. We can't do that up here. Yeah, that's the problem Yeah, well, we're just Dopes all selling the same 12 different versions of cookie and kush, you know like yay Well, that's that's kind of what I'm trying to get that to like, you know the comment earlier about it all being booth To a degree it's true because all these companies that came out hot to horny the beginning with all the money They were all public companies and they were all talking flash and million square foot greenhouses and blah blah blah blah But we've seen over the last three years. They're all fucking suffering. I mean canopy is just They're bleeding billions of dollars and their weed sucks and you know Like I said, it's like what it should have been from the start is just transitioning all the illegal growers over And letting them keep running their business rather than trying to displace them Right It would never be legalized that way the only money that's anybody's Is off of stock plays like they haven't actually made any money selling weed Which is crazy when you think about how many families And mortgages were supported and paid for Across the United States and North America and Canada as well like I mean That money went around not only to the growers, but to their communities, right like banks It's not like people were getting rich off of cannabis when people were paying the bills Yeah, but anyway, I see that the You know, I think we're going to be going through some growing pains here That you guys definitely you're not going to experience down in the states because you don't have that federal Like not only do they federalize the the production laws and everything But the distribution is all provincial like it's all run by state like boards. That's right Right and and like kip was saying The way that you have to sell to those boards like for example You know, if you go into a wine store in california, it's like you can get Pino's from 100 different producers try finding like Like a platinum cookies from or what's giving a popular one camper a mac tan wedding cake wedding cake Right. It's like the ldb is the liquor distribution boards. They're like, no, we already have a wedding cake. We're not going to buy that Yeah People have to rename it Right. I think that that's part of what's changing what's creating this like Like kip was saying it's this this unattainable or you were saying as well really with Caleb I mean it's this unattainable drive for the new new That it's like we're going so fast. It's like you don't even have time to appreciate what you made It's like you're just making a new nft and selling it again Yeah, exactly and that's not the way cannabis Topical right So yeah, it's it's backwards. It's it's very regressed it for breeding period. Yeah. Well, it's not it's not doable It's like it's it's literally like yeah, and you know We're using the platform right now It's the instagram immediacy of needing something new Right, and that's how the leader the most recent generation has kind of learned about cannabis So I you know, we got a lot of work to do to redistribute Um the knowledge and get all these old varieties back in Um, not only to the hands of the consumers, but also teach these like liquor distribution boards. It's like you know You can't come in this Listen, they you know what it's like you're running a dist or you're doing distribution You want to deal with five Suppliers and sell to a thousand customers. You don't want to deal with like 500 suppliers and sell to a thousand customers I mean it's a lot more work Right, but we're seeing more and more and we said it since the beginning Big pup go cannabis like public market company cannabis that ain't the fucking future Right because it becomes like this like this dangling carrot where it's like they're it's more They're more interested in the stock price than the weed Yeah And the customer doesn't give a fuck about the stock price the customer gives a shit about the weed So if you're not giving the customer what's they want what they want Why would anybody buy from you and we're seeing like that play out year after year now Where where we can track their sales in the legal market and you see it's just like It's going down like nobody's buying the drinks. Nobody's buying the gummies But the the reason they're doing this and it's very clear and very simple is that they're revenue driven They're not profit driven Right is because and that's what it needs to be like people need to understand That's why they sell for losses. That's why they sell and undercut everybody else That's trying to make a decent living in a decent wage You know on a family business Because they don't give a shit they can run losses for Exactly. So Ray look at canopy look at aurora like they all ran off business Right like that's how the court that's right. That's capital Yeah, yeah, they've run into loss until they until they run their their competitors out of money And then they operate and take over the market drive everything up And jack the price is up. Yeah, you know, listen that would work That would work in a whole bunch of other crops where The consumer wasn't intimate with quality The the consumer demands quality and cannabis. I mean, you're not going to smoke Right, you're not Because this is what I'm used to yeah But ryan's honestly though, I mean like 65 percent of all cannabis buyers drive by dry cannabis here in Canada And what portion are they buying it in they're buying it in the cheapest possible way for the highest possible thc With no differentiation. They don't want to spend over 25 bucks a day generally And they just they just want their cheap dope. They want to get in get out of the store I mean, this is what the these are what the metric we're telling us like monthly when we get all these numbers going to come in And it's just so disarming but again, it's because we can't Market our our products properly. We can't talk to the fund-tenders. The biggest cousin in the world in the industry is Producers and fund-tenders. I mean, that's just horrific, you know, the lack of education Well, you know, like they're not telling stories, especially making 16 bucks an hour They're not here to tell stories. No, they just want to like turn to their clock and get the fuck out So it's on us as an industry to have to be able to tell these stories and That was it, you know, like gorilla warfare ways like back in the day Like I don't know what to say at this point in the game It's it's it's crazy like I gotta tell you like, you know, there's tons of companies that are pressing and pushing the boundaries What's allowable, you know marketing and labeling and and and a voice here in Canada They're so understaffed to be quite frank. Like they're not they're not really doing anything I mean, you know, look at an LP that was growing illegal dope in illegal rooms And they still have a license and they got busted cold So I mean, you know, you're gonna bust me for for putting my font two sizes too big on a label like give me a break Yeah anyways And you know, I just think that I think you're right I think we have to and I've been saying this for a while We have to figure out a way to make people want to educate themselves And that's so fucking hard to do when it comes to weed so hard because a lot of people just want to smoke That's it as a culture we're preachy. We always want everyone to be as happy as we are with what we've found in life to be That's true And so people just don't have that relationship and we can't push that but yet they're still a consumer They're just not a head Right So and and we have to there's also that and that's a large part of the growing consumer base They don't have any attachment. We all did with the legalization And the hidden shame, you know, the meeting and the parking lots all that crap Yeah, you know, it is for great sakes, you know, they're dispensable dealer is And so this is not the generation that our generation understands and it's a new consumer And new consumers want different flavors and they want they want the cannabis delivered to them differently They want it in different skews and they want to be able to go online And order it up and they don't want any personal interaction Yeah, yeah, you've got to be able to tell a story digitally and and and and find a campaign that touches these kinds of consumers that aren't us because all we do guys is down to a hallway generally and you know that Yeah, that's for sure You know, so again open minds and I mean I turned 50 this year and then like my my mind is I don't less and less each day of this industry Like if there's just so much populating this industry all day that it's so tough to keep I handle on a lot of it to be quite frank But it keeps you it keeps you interested. There's no doubt about that Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, I'm learning the seed industry every I always think I have it figured out and then something comes along to make me realize how much I Don't have it figured out and I watch a lot of these young bucks figure it out just instantly around me. They they're making it happen You know, it's wild They have an app for it. They have a program for it, man They're more dialed into what's going on and and how it operates and I just turned 40 like yesterday So, uh, you know, I'm starting to feel a little old myself and all this Happy birthday, man. Happy birthday, man. Yeah, last Monday Well, yeah, I we got Over an hour and a half in and um god I could keep going and going and going and going and bothering you all night But um, if you guys ever want to come back and do this anytime. I know everybody watching enjoyed it I've been watching the comments and It's it's been very fruitful and I really appreciate you guys coming back to do this for the reunion and I'm really stoked with the podcast So if you're anybody watching right now hasn't watched it feel free to go to breeder syndicate and We have chimera and red right here with us and that was who was in season two episode one This this episode will be available via patreon after this So yeah, join the patreon for breeder syndicate and Hopefully we can have these fine gentlemen back again and and I really appreciate both of your time. You guys are both amazing It's all right. Yeah, thanks so much man. This was a lot of fun. This is uh, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Thanks again, brother Yeah, we've got a lot to learn from each other and very very cool to see everybody in the chat here all these old days Haven't seen it. So yeah, it's cool. Huh? Yeah, man. It's very cool All right. Well, thank you fellas for coming along right on Cheers man Sorry guys