 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. He was an abusive man. He hurt my mum a lot. I think he broke her back at one stage. My mum's rung up, crying her eyes out. Your brother's been stabbed again. He's in hospital. I said, are you joking? Where is it? She said, I said, you're going to be all right. She said, no, he's refusing to be operating on until he sees me. I said, well, what's the matter? She went, I don't know. You've got to get yourself down. So I've gone down and he's went, I need to tell you. And your mum needs to tell you. And I ain't going to be operating on until I hear it. Is that man our dad or isn't he our dad? And she said, no, not your dad. He hadn't thought about acting. I went acting. I said, acting's for mugs like this. Because for me, you're not acting's for mugs like this. For me, all he acts is on. They've never had any dough. I mean, I sit next to De Niro and I'm like, this is Robert De Niro's Bobby D, you know what I mean? And we're with, you know, Richard Gere that we all grew up idolising and I still sit with him and I'm like, it's inside. I'm like, it's like a child. Did you realise how big the football factor was for you? No, no, none of them. That was all shot at my club. There was no money. It was made on a shoestring budget. I think I've got to pay 15 grand to do the business, you know. That was fucking... 15 grand. Blockbuster following as well. Right, 15 grand. And then she just out the fucking blue. Dad, I want to go on Love Island. He's a fucking wind up. And we lost everything. And it was sad. And you know what, I just see the tear drop down my eye. And for me, the football president, we've all been there, man. Everyone's fucked up on the gear, fucked up on the booze. We've had it all and we fucked it. Ben, what's up? We're on. Thanks, guys, for getting back time. How are you? Good, mate. Good, good. Good to be here. Good to see you. We worked out in the end, didn't we? We tried to get us round the table a little while back and it couldn't happen, but I'm happy to be here, mate. I've got to say I'm proud of your success and I'm really happy for you, mate. You deserve it. Yeah, thank you. It's big coming from a man like yourself. Thank you, mate. You've caused it the last few years, filming businesses everywhere. I know a lot of friends who are very close to you as well. Friends are well respected. Well respected as well. You've lived a great life, mate, and you've still got that big smile on your face with everybody else. I have that mentality of where I've... I'm not even halfway through yet. You haven't seen the best of me yet. I've had that mentality for years. I mean, people talk about age and all of that and I'm a ripe age of 54, but I feel the best I've ever felt. I've had me ups and downs and I'm sure I'm going to have a lot more ups and downs, but I deal with it. You still look fucking great. Thank you. I always go back to the start of my guests. Where have you grew up and how it all began? I grew up in South East London, New Cross. My mum, bless her, she's still there. My dad passed away about six months ago. That's okay. Thank you. Yeah, we all started off in New Cross. Come from a very humble beginning, immigrant mum and dad. When they came in the 50s, there wasn't many foreigners here. It was the Cypriots, West Indians and the Irish, predominantly. So we created a community and we all kind of stuck together. The racism side of things was very strong growing up, but it was okay. We dealt with it. I grew up in the flats. We started off in a tower box and stuff, and then we moved to an estate, which was really lovely at the time. My mum got lucky and got a four bedroom house on an estate, which was lovely. And then it kind of started from now. Growing up, started boxing at a very young age to prevent or try and stop the bullies from beating us up. And people look at me now and I'm very big and imposing and stuff, but as a kid I was pure white, a little fat turk with loads of hair. Something's never changed. I'm a big fat turk with loads of hair now. But it kind of started from there, but I had a good upbringing. I had a lovely upbringing to tell the truth. It was nice. My mum and dad never had much, but nobody did in the 70s and 80s. The community was lovely. I enjoyed living, growing up in the flats and being around that sort of community. A lot of people, I hear people say, I was horrendous, I grew up in the flats, I grew up in the estates and it was horrible. I don't believe you did, because there was always a little element of drug dealers, bad boys and people that are not right. But they kind of got put straight quite quickly and the community leaving your door open and if you ain't got enough sugar, you're not next door, you've got this again. It was the help and the love and the community. Like I said, we never got all the best things that the other kids had, but we had a lot of love and we were raised with discipline, no talking at the table and being brought up that way indoors. My mum bathed us every night, loved us, kissed us, put us to bed. My dad wasn't present, but most men weren't in them days. He was at the cafe where he was gambling or he was away working. Whatever you can say never laid a hand on us. He never laid a hand on my mum. He was ignorant, never spoke to us, never really raised us, but it is what it is. I don't hate him for it, I loved him for it and just that's just his nature. He was a military man, did eight years in the army. He was a commander and he wouldn't talk to us, he was just that guy, but my mum was always there and she loved us but saying that, there was always plenty of food in the house. And my mum was there. My mum worked hard growing up, she was a seamstress and we used to help my mum. I was a little bit of a terrible way at school. I'd always been getting to fights. I was small but I had a big heart. I just couldn't take the fact of the bully inside of it. I didn't understand it as a kid. I was just a kid in a foreign land that weren't going to be accepted. And it didn't really matter then whether you was Indian, Pakistani, black, white, red, pink. If you wasn't English you just weren't accepted and it was always tough for everyone. And I think everyone can back it up from those days. You used to sit there and think you had an English name or you just want to be accepted. A lot of people channeled that through football, villainy, thieving, fighting. My mum was fighting. I used to fight all the time. I was just horrendous at school. I'd get beat up because I just didn't have the minerals. My mum took me to Judo and tried to do these things. She was a local and ginger may God rest his soul. He had a boxing club in All Saints Church in New Cross. She just took me down there. He was friends with me. He reminded me of Mickey at Rocky. He genuinely was that man. He was a real life Mickey. Roll up hanging that side of his mouth, little cap on. One of the men that could do 100 sit-ups, 100 push-ups, 100 press-ups with a roll-up hanging out of his mouth. You know those old school strong men. He looked after. Father Owen was still alive. We had a community there. We were fighters and we had a community there. Things started changing. Back in the day, you'd go to the boxing gym and want to be a boxer to get the girls. Or to swerve people away from you, leave them alone as a boxer. But I enjoyed it. I loved it and it went from there to where we are today. I was always an entrepreneur. My mum, I was very disobedient. I couldn't take orders. So my mum knew very early on that I couldn't be a man in a job. I couldn't take an order. So at the age of 12, she set me up a market store, an Eastlade market. And then it moved on to Nine Elms Market and I was a market trader from a very young age. And then it just kind of catapulted from there. How was it not having that love from the father figure? Do you think that affected you as a kid? No, not at all. It affected my brother a lot because the father that raised me wasn't my real father. My mum was a very strong pillar in the community. She was a tough woman. And my real father, who I believe he's dead, he was an abusive man. He hurt my mum a lot. I think he broke her back at one stage. He was a habitual... It was a running thing because I've met my two brothers that I've got in Cyprus that were very successful. They were very similar, they're older than me, but he would marry, have two kids and go. Marry, have two kids, go. A very abusive playboy, whatever. A drunk, abusive piece of shit. And it did the same to my mum. But I left when I was six months old and my big brother was three years old and I remember my mum saying, I didn't know until I was 27. It's quite a sad story, I found that. But my big brother was in and out of prison but when he left it really affected my brother. And then my mum kind of knew early on what kind of boys we were going to be. And she told the whole community, if anybody ever thought it was a word, that this man who'd come and actually saved my mum took her out of the halfway home, saved my mum. If anyone said that this man ain't her father, they could have me to deal with. And she was a tough woman, trust me. Yeah, it was quite a sad thing. My brother was a bit of a fighter. Started drinking at an early age. Alcoholic, left home at 14. Had a kid at 15. And he got stabbed 13 times with a pair of scissors. So it was actually 26 times. He was going to die. But he had been, he went to prison before me and as he was growing up, he started listening to people and just coming, you know that ain't your dad, you know that ain't your dad, you know that ain't your dad. And then he went, took it upon himself to find out who his dad was and if it was true, it weren't true. And we had the conversation once and I said, he's talking shit, to stop believing people. I had nightclubs, I was successful. He was sort of drinking, I was taking care of him and I said, don't listen to this old bollocks. And then he was in the hospital and I remember I was upstairs in a nightclub, I saw him in a nightclub called Doran's. I was like, ain't right, you know, he's feeling something, ain't right, ain't right, I couldn't get drunk, I couldn't have a good time. My mum's rung up, crying her eyes out, your brother's been stabbed again, he's in hospital. I said, are you joking, where is he? She said, he's going to be alright. She said, no, he's refusing to be operating on until he sees me. I said, well, what's the matter? I said, I don't know, you've got to get yourself down. So I've gone down and he's went, I need to tell you. And I ain't going to be operating on until I hear it. Is that man our dad or isn't he our dad? And she said, no, not your dad. He got operating on him, he's alright now, but he was quite sad the way I found out. It wasn't sad, it was emotional. My dad, because I've raised my sister as well, my dad was the first time ever I actually see him show some emotion because he was very cold and the first time I actually see him show some emotion and he just said, look, you know, if you want to go and find your dad, he's going to be fine. If you want to go and find your dad, I'm okay with it. And I was like, no, not interested. Do you think he was cold because he knew he wasn't your real dad? Maybe, maybe. It kind of makes sense now. He's living a lie, do you know what I mean? He's obviously probably doing it for your love. Yeah, maybe, because he had a boy and a girl with my mum and they didn't even know, we didn't even know. So we all grew up as real siblings, my mum was brave enough to do that and it worked. It worked moving forward because it didn't change anything. It didn't change anything because I'm 27, my sister's 10 years younger and me and my little brother's four years younger. It was kind of really tight. It was a tight family and we were close siblings and I was where my big brother was a bit of a degenerate. I don't want to say it, but because I love him and he's on the men now but at the time he was horrible. He wasn't a good big brother. I took that role. So I was the big brother and I looked after him and I raised him because my mum was always working, my dad weren't present. But I think, yeah, it could be that because he was a lot closer with them too. When you look back on it, he was a lot closer with them too but there's nothing saying he did love us. If he didn't, he would abuse us here as well. He wasn't abusive, he wasn't violent. He just was not present. Just distant, yeah. Would you have preferred not to have phoned out? It didn't bother me that much. I was always something in your mind. I always knew there was something there. I always knew, even from a young kid the way my real dad's family used to treat me and I was a cute kid at the time and I was a bit special they used to say but I never... I always knew something wasn't right. I always knew something was there but what it was I don't know. But you have that instinct, didn't you, as a child? And I got fussed over a lot. I got fussed over a lot by one side of the family and not the other. Do you know what I mean? My aunties, my dad's sisters didn't fuss over me as much as my real dad's sisters but my mum never ever said she just said they're my friends. They're boxing, you had over 80 amateurs, is that correct? No, more, more, more. That's a lot. 40 or something. I started at the age of 7 and finished at about 20 something. I got a detached retina and my aunt smashed up my nose and that's all I ever wanted to be was a pro boxer but now it's quite sad they just throw you in the ring, don't they now? I mean, then we'd have to train for three years before we even got a medical, you follow your medical you've got to train for another year to get again. It's always harder to get a licence to fight at any level. But once I detached and to tell the truth I'm overwhelmed that I didn't turn bro because to see what they go through and what they have to go through it's not easy. I had something that was on before you and he was saying it's just corrupt as fuck the amount of percentages that people take before they even get their passes is unbelievable. That is the saddest part of it but it's what the body has to go through and the damage, the permanent damage you cause when you stop I'm happy for that I've got a couple of twitches and I shake me every now and again and I have little twitches and stuff I think everybody does that I'm just trying to devil out I'm just getting rid of the devil to make Jor go for my edge I've been seeing him I'm a fucking madman just seeing him shaking our heads and twitching but yeah, I did enjoy it I loved the discipline of it and then I went on to send me pro football clubs myself and the kids come in from broken families and stuff and it's an escape for them I remember it was an escape for me when I was in that gym I couldn't wait to get in that gym every day I'd get up in the morning at 5 o'clock running, come back, sleep, shower, breath first go to work, straight to the gym every day it was just my life I loved it, my mates had told me if you ever speak to them they'd go cause they was all smoking and drinking I never had a drink till I was in my mid 20s and they'd be in the pub and they'd see me running past the pub coming in from the gym, nah, not for me but I've always wanted to be a pro something, I've always wanted to be a pro football or a pro box or something I've always wanted to be somebody I've always wanted, always aspired going back to when I was a kid I'd always subconsciously manifest in things that I never thought I'd get because we didn't have the money but bizarrely I'd get it and it happened and it's still like that with me now you know, I still, even after all these films that I've done and all the success that I've had in the industry I mean I sit next to De Niro and I'm like this is Robert De Niro, it's Bobby D you know what I mean with Richard Gere that we all grew up idolizing and I still sit with him and inside I'm like, it's like a child you know, like, so happy maybe get goose pimples thinking about it but my outside persona is always going to be me because I don't want to show that side of it but the industry mate, I love it, I adore it saved my life, you know I just can't be without it, it's my happy place how did you end up with the entrepreneurship but how did you end up with those skills is that from working from 12 years old to understand the business? I think so, I think I from 12 years old, yeah I think that's hardly to do with my mum my mum was always very pushed to be business owners she was a bit of a hippie chick my mum and she was very rebellious as a child she was a tomboy, very rebellious as a child and she would be for the girls from before the Me Too movements, before women's live and all that, she celebrated the girls because I think where she was in a strict environment of loads of brothers, she didn't want that for her girls and she didn't want that for the girls around her so she was always encouraging my sister to go out or encouraging the girls and she's always had the girls around her she was always doing that way she had her own business even as a seamstress, she ended up having 10 girls in the estate working for her take a bit of commission and all that stuff and then we, she said to me we got a contract of Selfridges and these dresses were like $69.99 back in the day and she'd get a lot of fibre and then she'd probably put a few under the table do you know what I mean, and she'd go like we're going to sell these dresses, we're selling them for 10ers with a $69.99 Selfridges label and that far back, there was no such thing as Sneidgear, you know, we had to get them it was over nicked or it just wasn't a label so my mum used to say we've stolen them but don't tell anyone and we started from there and it was I remember she had a beetle a Volkswagen beetle and she put a roof rack on it and then we'd put the frames of the stall on the roof rack, put the seats down and put all the dresses in the back and she'd take me leave me there and then come away from there but I think again from a very young age I always wanted to be something or be someone or be somebody of importance I was never a worker be, I was never somebody that would work for someone you know what I mean and I think that's where it started I'm all well fine were you ever in the casual scene or was that a myth in the football casual scene no I was there I used to run with a pack somebody told me that I didn't know because of football fact I don't know if people are just throwing that in there I knew the boys we used to run with a pack I used to not travel away so much I was at the home games and I know all the whackers and they used to frequent my bars and clubs and stuff I did have a little stim with the casuals and stuff I never used to dress like them, it was quite funny I used to have really long hair and I could even pass for a mixed race because curly thick, curly long hair I just shave it underneath and then tuck it and I still wear a cap and then tuck it under the cap and I just wear all the stone iron I didn't want to put any scarfs or badges or anything on me so I'd do what I had to do take the coat off, sling it pull the air out, shake it and just carry on walking like nothing had happened so I was very lucky that way I got away with a lot with the with the football stuff but I was in and out, I quickly got out but once I started owning businesses and become a license in that and then when the boys started getting eight years after Luton years ago you'd get fines you'd have a bit of community service or you'd actually get five, six weeks but then when they slapped the eight years on the boys when they wrecked Luton years ago when they did Luton everyone kind of went fuck that, this is not for us life is, it changed from a meat and a tear up to really being a bad crime that's not the sentence that people were getting who was it, Tiny? because I had big he's gone now you know I had West Ham one big bull gardener Tiny wanted to speak to Bull before he died and Bull's like I don't fucking speak to him and then obviously they ended up phoning him and the two of them ended up just talking and then it went that night or the next day because they had so much respect for each other West Ham top boy and he's like what the fuck you got grief from the West Ham mob that had phoned him but both legends and that but it's like the football factor I think Nick Love did a phenomenal job and the people we brought in to authenticate the fight scenes the meets I mean it's called the football factor it's actually one football and I think it's the closest one to how it really is or how it used to be did you have any say in any of the scenes yeah we did a little bit we helped as much as we could I don't want to say take all the credit I don't want to take all the credit but the names the Mill Wolf boys that were there were spot on it was quite funny on that last fight scene we turned up and then we had like a couple of a couple of kids like little skinny kids in burberry hats and I was like what are you doing it's only a film we'll make it no mate it's not just a film we're in the arches right in the back of the den and this film is going to be an issue we knew what it was going to be so we had to get it right and then we just got on the phone I said to the boys listen do you want to be in a film the police we cleared it with the police they will write police I said listen we're happy to go if they're going to go they don't have to do any paperwork so a lot of that that last fight scene in the football factory kid broke his arm and we said look you know have you ever been hit with a bat and if you go they're going to go at you these riot police are probably getting spat every weekend and I said look we're going to bring a few of the boys out alright and they're probably thinking yes cooks it's alright so in there they're probably going to get their own back but that scene did get really messy at one stage really get messy what's the difference from fighting from a walk to fighting in the ring was it a totally different buzz fighting in the ring was more fear for me than a buzz but that was a buzz yeah you get to me and you knew that there wasn't going to be knives or guns or anything like it was a terror every now and again someone took a little bit of a bottle or something but you never that it wasn't a drill anything the fear I mean I don't care who you are unless you're a complete psychopath when you're walking into a melee there's that element of fear in you the butterflies go you always got a bad feeling this one's going to go wrong but I think that's the buzz that's the drive and that's the energy around it that's the addictive part of it I mean every time I walked to the ring man I was terrified terrified of losing and that's what I think made me win and my mum used to say always remember son the one who hits first always wins the fight I mean for me that didn't work you know get the first one in get the first one in why's Mowell got that fearsome reputation out of everyone Mowell's always top boys they're the old dockers they're hard men back in the day with the Zulu's they were predominantly black Big One Eye Bazaar I love that what a man man what a beautiful man listen look I'm scared I'm running into him what a champion kickboxer did you get a lot of people did you ever get people running though and thinking fuck that listen I don't care who you are who's wackers it doesn't matter who you are there is an element where you're going to get run somewhere you can't win them all but I've got a lot of love for the boys up in Birmingham because when we did the football factory and thanks to Caspen we did a regional tour Q&A and they looked after us so much and that's when I got to know I'm Trevor as well God rest his soul and Bird and Baz and I got really close with them but it's quite I mean the rival between West Ham and Millwall is so strong it's ingrained they can't be mates it's cousin Avers it's just one of them things there's always somewhere in the world or in some league somewhere that you've got two rivals Man United Liverpool whatever Tottenham Chelsea but with West Ham it's ingrained I think because they're so close to each other close proximity and they're working classmen and listen we're islanders we're territorial you know it's just what was it like working at having restaurants, night clubs and that did you ever get much trouble? is that not becoming a pain in the arse in the arse yeah but that's what I did there was always trouble restaurants weren't too bad restaurants were fine but when I had the night clubs and the booze because what it was I was on that side of the tracks I knew everyone I knew all the champs I was always doing bits and you know I had my life there as well doing that sort of stuff it wasn't a choice but it's just what's handed to you and that was the best way we could go and get a nice few quid and do what we do but and once I kind of we never leave it but once I was one of the smart ones you know we used to go and have a cool, have a move and then they'd go and spend their money on birds and clubs and all that stuff but I'd always want to invest in something and do something so I'd get a club or borrow or put something into it and it was quite funny my dad was the one that kind of said I said so what do I do I said f**k you know I got this money I don't want to what would you like to do and I just for a joke I went well I like going out smashing birds and drinking and have a good time in clubs and he went well buy a club then you can do all of that and make money it's like like Bob Bob and Ching you're right but then when you're around all of these people and I was never one to stay on one side because our family and our people that we was around they was on one side of London they was the opposite but us as youngsters we're mates with all the sort of the top villains, nephews and sons and all of that stuff so it's always difficult like they'd fall out and then we'd have to fall out and we just kind of didn't just bullshit politics but and then when you've got a club you've got like a focal point especially I had the old tunnel club which is 348 now is it 348 now it was called Dorin's when I did but it was like a meeting point for everyone and then people would come and you'd have to you'd have to work it out and I'll just say to people look if you're having murders outside of here whoever comes first they're in, if you come after them it's not personal I'm just not having you do this in here no problem they all got it but a couple of times that just didn't work did it because a few, their turn up their faces and back in the 80s and the 90s should I say because I'm only mid to late 90s it was rife and people were either dropping a pill or having a good time or sniffing and wanting to kill each other and the egos then and the groups and the gangs it's not like it is now then there was you add your pockets and you know the Burmese Warf Road this one that one and if they go each other they go each other and then you've got to run around pulling tapes out and try trying to clear it all up pulling tapes out of recorders and because you know someone's going to not want to do did you this, did you that and listen cast to tell you he's been there a few times and I've always been one to help I've always been a good mediator listen I'll have a turret if I have to have a turret I've had a million of them but I'm always the one that go listen you're out of order, you're out of order I'm always good on a sit down I never turn away from a sit down because there's nothing that can't be resolved with a few quid and a chat what was the decision to start drinking especially if you're keeping fit eye on the prize you've got businesses to then you see people sitting in their barstools and think because if you're in that business you see them you see them deteriorating they're still there now my mates they look, I mean people go to me fucking old you're like Benjamin Barton don't you hey and I'm like well I feel like they're fucking same as you did you're like once it's the same thing but you know I don't do the botox I don't do the fillers I think it's or do you not do it here? No I've done nothing I've got girls pulling back but I pull them out of my face I've done this I'm not saying I won't I always sit there and I say the wife I go shut up a little bit you're an actor it's nice just grow old gracefully Nakiru look at me in the fucking five years have you ever seen that kind Nakiru look at me actor he's fucking done his face handsome bastard do you know what a looker he was but they say it's addictive he'll wake up and go on a Roman nose go down to the thing and just chop his nose off and put a Roman nose on him what an actor he was as well what happened to him the rest of that what a film what a boxer people laughing as a boxer turn bro solid man beautiful man a man's man nothing wrong with Mickey mate which one of us acts the same we all go mad in the end and a fucking phenomenal actor unbelievable unbelievable the rest of it was unbelievable how hard is that to see people you know but they try to hang on to a kid here and it's fucking hard especially if you're doing the other stuff with it and it just declines is that hard to see you said you asked me about the booze why did I start drinking I've never been a pub man I used to go on a pub because pub discos then we couldn't afford to go to the west end of clubs so the local pubs I used to kind of go in there to pull birds and have a laugh and all of that stuff but I was never really a pub but for me I was playing catch up I went to Spain I met a wife and I just started drinking and to this day I fucking hate the taste of alcohol like literally but I love getting drunk that was my thing I hated it if I could take a pill and I'm drunk I'll be happy that one where I binge and I just line up loads of tequila because I just want to get drunk and I shut the tequila and I'm drunk and I'm done I'm good you know what I mean but for me I felt like I was playing catch up like I haven't done all of this and I couldn't fight anymore and I've missed out on all of that stuff and I just started travelling and going to clubs and then the movie business fell on my lap and I got famous really quick and then mate what a fucking journey that was how did that start then from working in night clubs having relationships fighting for mow well fucking retired boxer to then some of the biggest British films of all time by the grace of god thank you but if I had a pound for every time I told this story I'd never have to work again but I'll keep it short because I'm sure people have heard this a million times I never wanted to be an actor especially with what we were doing and the people I'd ram in and fraternity I was in cameras and things like that yeah well it's like what you're doing you're doing interviews and books and all of that stuff especially the people that raised me and the people that I was around they were very strict with all of that stuff so I was always investing in stuff like I'll get a restaurant and I'll do this and someone will go like do you want to throw 20 grand in there so I was always like that and there was an opportunity and every time at the night clubs I used to facilitate everyone from gangsters to straight go as normal people to film producers to actors everyone was always there it was a beautiful mix of eclectic people and producers said I was a lot slim and a lot better looking when I was younger so I was always a great dresser I'd be wearing leather trousers leather shirts a friend of mine Michael Molder you saw a Molder 3 down in Blackheave and we'd sit there and create each and do these leather jackets for me and the leather shirts and trousers and boots and accessories and I was always I'd long hair and a ponytail and I was always immaculate I used to stroll around and I was a great host good storyteller good host, good mediator sat there and people used to look I was always that guy and people used to say to me you should be in a movie, you should be in a movie I think that film, Gangster number one the one at Bourbetty they'd come up to me and spoke to me about it originally he was a boxer better than his role and they because I was a boxer and I had to gym upstairs in my football club and a producer I think it was Jamie Redknapp that called me and said something about it and I was like I can't do that, I'll get fucking slow film, you're joking, it'll kill me and it kind of started from there and then a friend of mine who used to supply older girls for Spearmint Rhino lovely man he was there's an old rocker he kind of set it up but what he said to me was do you want to invest in an agency I said what's an agency, an acting agency I don't know nothing about it he went well give me the spill I said how much did you win, 25 grand I said I went fuck it it would just come and take the meeting like this but I've been on to me he was trying to get me with an agent and she still works with me now she's producing that Camilla story she had something called MTA model turned acting she was got a bit of a scout and stuff so I turned up late but she in her head I'm going to do a deal so I'll get there when I get there I'm giving the money so and I'm always fucking late anyway we know me I'm always fucking late my perception of mine was just fucking that's right so we turn up at Bentley's Oyston Champagne Bar round the back of Piccadilly where he's Regent Street and after he's there I say hello mate I'm sorry I'm late I was just about to open a restaurant called Blue Eye through the mayor's restaurant so I'm running around but I thought I'll just get it in while I can turned out I was just sitting there fucking hit there and you got a watch I went did you get paid she didn't know it was all bollocks about buying the agency and then we started and um fucking red head fucking short balls fucking white as a sheep yeah and I was like I said yeah nice week but then she started talking and then I see it go I mean what is this I mean a lot I'm sorry but I just want you to you've got to do this you've got to have a guy that's acting for you I'm gonna have a fuck sex crime drop me out and then I did invest in the agency and stuff and then she just threw it out there she went you know about acting I went acting I said acting's for mugs like this because for me not acting's for mugs for me all he acts is on never had any dope they come to the bar can I get a tab can you cash this for me can you this for me can you know because there's only the big made it made the money and I just went acting's for mugs and listen I've got to go I can't fuck with all this and she's sitting there I can't kill him and then she went I said look I'm really so I've got to go and I pulled out a few 50s red runs put it on I said this is on me I have this on me she went where are you going I said I've got to go and I get some float for the tills I'm opening a restaurant tonight so I'm in a bit of a rush I'm sorry let's pick this up another time she's telling me can I I'm actually need I can't I had a bang I said no no but I said I need change I need back in the days it was tills weren't you needed flow quite in the and then she's like and then she walked out I went see like I dropped the thing down gone I went fuck you know Graham I said she's a ball breaker and she's like no but she's really nice she's really nice will you take a meeting with her again I went yeah yeah see you like I forgot about a couple of weeks later she goes can you come in and can you come in and and take a meeting and we talk about the business and blah blah blah and he went you know he said he said I said yeah I went in and then if they put me they wanted me to audition I'm like it was all bizarre I'm like what do you want me to do she still thinks I want to be an actor but I don't and he's got just go of it just go of it and then I cut a long story short we invested we did it and then BBC called up and they said what's when a film ritual shoot nothing had happened I don't know how I can leave me alone it was horrendous trying to read and I just didn't want anything to do with it and then they said just we do me a favor will you go for the audition I said audition for what because BBC if we don't send someone we've got no one villainy looking on the books just go it's no dialogue just take the meeting let him have a look he'll put a leather jacket on and then you're out just keeps us in good stead with the BBC so I said seriously she went please I went I swear I can't do it gone there done it Julia Crampsey used to who's a cast and director lovely woman she used to drink in the bar and we had a company where we would send the boys in and clean up dirty pups you know if someone's got an egg pub we'd go in and clean them up and she was in one of the gaffes that she sees clean up and I've been on to me she said I've gone in the room I've got a leather jacket I'm sitting there I said I hate it I just like she went oh but I said can you wait one minute she's gone to the set and called the director and I heard her go we've got the real deal here I'm thinking oh you're fucking acting I can still come out later when Julia was supposed to she said I said I think I'm Antonia Banderos or Steven Seagal was saying can you just say a bit of dialogue stand up do this do that I went yeah sweet I did it thank you very much so I got in the car I rang the agent I said don't you ever fucking make me do that again I was terrified it was fucking horrible doing it again she went oh I'm sorry thanks for doing it 10 minutes later they've cut they've stopped the casting they said she's gone you ain't gonna fucking believe this you know what's coming they got the job she said you ain't gonna believe that I'll offer you the job I said tell him I'm dead I've left the country I'm in prison doing it I ain't fucking doing it so that's how it started and that's how it started and Dan say Dan Craig Febrass made money was Dan at the time in there they played Dan character called Dan Frank he was doing he was son and shiny did lock stock and had come to the restaurants I know my mates and and yeah Kent and all them was in there and I knew all of them I know the footballers and I knew everyone you know I was kind of famous without even being famous I was the kid on the block name I wanted to come and have a good time with and I was the one who had the restaurants and the clubs and he went listen I'm gonna be there just go have a good time you never know you might like it then I said all right fuck it I'll give it a go on the quiet no one knew going in got picked up chauffeur driven car got put in the hotel for a week turned up on set bit of maker water fed turned went up on set delivered what I did have dialogues just a bit yes nodding and it's quite easy full of facial it's a couple of facial it's quite funny props master can't go you got your props fucking props and what's his name who plays Phil Mitchell what's his name he was he was absolutely Steve yes Steve McFadden he was absolutely lovely he got his straight away when you never done this before I've got a fucking clue mate like this you're doing all right you're doing all right he went that's a prop that's this that's so kind of kind of took took me under his wing a little bit and he said am I doing all right when you're fucking fantastic and I looked at the I looked at the monitor on a replay and I got to tell you mate I was instantly addicted it was like that was the most addictive thing ever harrowing whatever I took a shot harrowing mate I was instantly addicted and I thought fuck that and at the end of all that they took me home and they paid me as well and I thought you get paid for doing this and I was like this is great it's quite funny there was another thing that Craig Fairbrass I think still lives to regret he come running on set and he said to the director and the camera make sure you leave the camera on him because that fuck is gonna be nicking all of our work one I think he said it just to make me feel bad because I fucking wish I never said that so and then it just went from there and then Julia after Julia Cranes who went listen you're gonna be really big in this game you know you're gonna be really good it's you you promise me you're gonna come back and grace our show again and I just went well it was just it was just an overwhelming whirlwind of fun and and brilliance and just excitement I went absolutely Julia of course of course I come back then I I call it apprenticeship work I did judge on D I did the bill I did casualty and then I've got the calcium kid with Orlando Bloom unbelievable yeah and I went in for a small little role I went in for just a bucket man because I've got a CV I've got nothing and it's quite funny and I always know how to blag a room and I said to the I said to the agent I said tell me about the director's director when I was done a few bits first part of a guy Richie and Nick Love they're the companies he does predominantly music videos but he's really talented Alex Rackoff his name is and I said who's this support I said I don't fucking I said we'll find out I said find out she went alright and she's running up some of those Alex will ask not great I mean what do you want to know I went out I fucking don't worry I'll work out so we've gone in there and he's talking to me and the role I played be right it was already given offered to Gary stretch and I went in there and I started talking to him and I sat in front of him I went ah fucking are you I said ah no flag I said I love no and I thought I'm going to have him I'm going to have him and he never he's literally one of my best friends I'm good father to his children he wrote and directed Deadman running it was a show run on SNAT and he said I'll never forget he said I had no idea you weren't blagging me like this and I went I said I said ah but you said you married I said yeah married wife from North London I said I'm an avid awesome support what I'm mad for the Cooners mate he went me too that was it I had him I had him I had him, I had him, I had him I had him I must say wherever it takes and then he said do me a favour Galway he said forget that, he said you're better than that he said South London boxer he said you're actually perfect for it I mean he was a boxer, he was a great boxer but he wasn't South London he wanted it to be authentic So I've gone in, went away, come back in a week. He said it was a seven page, it was the kidnapped hostage scene. And I just sat in doors for seven weeks and just fucking nailed it, went in there, nailed it. And you know when you nailed it. And I like, I love offers, but I like casting. Even now, let me go in and cast, let me earn the job. Let me earn a bit of gross. I like it, it gives me a sense of achievement. And I went in, I knew I nailed it and I watched him panicking. You know, I had the producers of working title there. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, and I did it and I fucking nailed it. And he started talking about what we're gonna do, what we're gonna do, because, and I'm thinking, I didn't know at the time that Gary's stretch had been offered the job. And now he's got to tell him, and it's Gary, he's not a mug, you know what I mean? And he's, you know, he's thinking he's gonna beat the shit out of him. And he's got to tell him. And then it calls me up, he goes, how tall are you? I mean, how tall do you want me to be? That's the same old job. Well, Ken, we hate you, you're an astral talker. I'll talk to you about it, but he said, how much do you want me to weigh? He went, listen, I've got a problem. He said I've offered a job to Gary. He said, I don't know how I'm gonna get out of it, but just leave it with me. I'm offering you the role. I was like, great. And then that was it. I mean, Jaleelie, me, Billy Piper, you know, small. Fuck it. And everyone from that film actually went on to be great, fuck Michael Penya, went on to be great fucking successful people in the business, you know? And then that was it. It went from there, then I've got that, then I've got a football factory straight after, then I did layout, then I did the business, then I did spivs. And, you know, when I started at the time, there was only DVD and cinema. There's no video on demand or none of this stuff, what we're doing. And it was, you know, the cinema goes to the cinema, three months later, the DVDs are, and then, yeah, that's it. You're gone. But I had four or five films in the cinema, all at once. Learth Cakes, one of the best gangster films in the world, I believe, unbelievable. I did a lot on that, you know. I did a lot of authenticating for Matthew on that. He'd pull me over and he'd go, and just going back to that, and then all of a sudden, I was like overnight, just bang, it was like, everyone went, who the fuck is he? And I remember Nick Gunn and my team boy called him and went, who the fuck is he? He's fucking brilliant. You know, he's great. And it was just, I was the focal point of everything that was going on. Do you know what I mean at the time? How were you treated from the villains to then being a fucking household name? It was, do you know what saved me? Learth Cakes. Learth Cakes saved me. Cause they enjoyed it so much. It made sense. It made sense to them. And they actually went, you know what, boy, you've always been a fucking movie star and you're fucking good, mate. And I think if I was shit, I'd never want to say I'm fucking amazing or anything. But they see that film and I remember I was in, I was in the Venus once, and I won't say which one of them. You know, they got the strip club. And I won't say which one. Come over and he looked at me and he went, can't, I said, what's the matter? He went, that fucking like, brilliant. And I went, did you enjoy it? He went, yeah, it was brilliant. He went, and you was mustard in it. He was fucking brilliant. And you know, when you get that approval, but it was like, that's you now, fuck off. That's what you're doing now. You're doing that now. That's it. And we're proud of you and we're happy. Come and do what you're doing. You've got out. I think that's your nature. I think no matter what you would have done, you'd have been approved anywhere. No matter what you've done. Like you can say that you're a blagger, but you can see the energy's positive and strong and that you're a fucking kind soul. Like I think no matter what you would have done, you'd have elevated to whatever you focus. Like you say, things don't just fall in your lap. No, it happens for a reason. I believe your cards are dealt. Some people all get dealt shitty cards, but it's how you play them. You got to play. I mean, you got to sit with them and people say, people, some people thought when I was at the height of my game and, you know, me and Danny were doing what we were doing. I mean, we was billboarded, posted all over the fucking country. And, you know, we'd turn up. I think me and Danny, we invented the PA, you know. Back in the day, they had past fortunes. We'd turn up on stage. You think Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley was on the stage screaming kids. You know, they were just obsessed with these movies. They were like a, it was like a, like a cult. It was like these, just following us around the country and just doing stuff. And we had, we had the best time of our life, I've got to tell you. But it's the people you say, oh, it's lucky I can't become a movie star. No, mate. You know, you've got to go to work. You've got to learn how to deal with that rejection jacket. You've got to learn how you read in scripture. You want it, you want it, you don't get it. It's not like you wake up, you've got to put the fucking work in, you know, and people don't realize it. And to wear that rejection jacket for me, someone like me, fucking difficult. It was hard, it weren't easy. And then you just kind of, you kind of get into it. And then if you want to, see for me, I thought, I'm going to do this. So I got rid of the clubs, the restaurants, football club, got rid of everything. If I'm going to do something, if I'm in the F&B biz, I'm in the F&B biz. If I'm in whatever biz, I'm going to give it my full. I'm going to give it my, I don't juggle things around. It's the lowest hanging fruit. I'm going to take that, I'm going to eat it. And I'm going to enjoy it until I can't eat it anymore, until I'm ready to move on. Do you know what I mean? Did you realize how big the football factor would be? No, none of them. That was all shot at my club, there was no money. It was made on a shoestring budget. My football club, all the locations we gave. Nick wanted to do it. We all fell in love with Nick. I gave him everything we could. That scene with me and Frank on the football pitch. That was at the football club. The restaurant when Rod tells, well, I don't partake in the gym too much. I suppose we could fucking tell. I don't take drugs, but that was in the kitchen. We built a restaurant there. All the toilet scenes were there. So we all kind of mucked in and just got it done. Do you know what I mean? And it was a fucking, it was an amazing experience. The artist, people say, what's the artist's bit of graft you've done in it? That last fight scene, mate. That last fight scene was the artist's day's work I've ever done in my life. He should have been sponsored by Neurofen. Honestly, it was fucking horrendous, but it was well worth it. And then you got the business after that? Then Nick, see the relationship between me and Danny. I was a fan of Danny's long before I even knew him. He's done great, hasn't he, mate? He's fucking phenomenal, isn't he? What a great act. I mean, don't look at him on the east end of the east end. It's not even work for him now. It's just getting paid, isn't it? But he is a bit special, Danny. He's about... I remember I said to him, I fell in love with him. I fell in love with him when he did Meemishin. Yeah, Danny Jones. When he was doing all that. When he did that on the balcony. And I told him a million times, that's when I just fell in love with him. And when it came to us working together, I was so fucking excited that I was gonna be working with him. And someone that never wanted to be an actor, to all of a sudden sit in with all of these greats and Frank as well from Snatch and just sit in there just looking around there, fucking, it's just really happening, do you know what I mean? And then I did that and then I went to Paris and did a look-by-son movie with Morgan Freeman, Jet Lee and Bob Oskins. Called Unleashed, I Need a Dog and I'm like... And then I was doing two, three films at once, flying from there to Toulouse, flying back doing spivs, doing this, doing... And it was just a whirlwind of fucking brilliance, mate. And I met some amazing people and I learned, I'm untrained, not one day in drama school. And I'm still learning today. Do you know what I mean? I'm still learning today. And Bob Oskins got arrested, so he became my Hollywood dad and we become really close. And it started, I turned up late on set and I didn't have my lines down. Fucking tore me another asshole, mate. Like when I go, when I say got went in, went in. And then on the way back, he was, I picked up a lot of these values moving forward. He'd never sit in the back of the car. Why? Of his driver, just wouldn't do it. Sits at the front, never leaves a driver outside. Make sure he comes in for dinner. If he doesn't come in for dinner, he'll take food out to him. Respected everyone? Everyone. He's like, when we was there, it was Louis Latteria. He's just started off in his career and I ended up working with him again on Clash of the Titans, but he would go, if they haven't got what they need by the time, by cut off time, then they ain't getting it. You ain't gonna fucking sit around for hours waiting for these cunts to get it right. And it happened. And then he said, like, you know, these bastards will make you put your head for a glass window. They'll make you rub your face in shit in a year. And that's okay when if you sign on the dotted line and you've read the script, that's okay. But always make sure they're gonna use it and ask them if they're not gonna fucking use it, don't make me eat that shit. Because if I do it and you don't use it, you're gonna have a problem. And the shoot run over once and everyone said yes. And I thought, let me see if Bob is that ballsy man. Let me see if he's, a lot of people are all talking this business. And he sat there and he went, no, you can't have me. He said, I'll be here in the morning, leave it all set up, send everyone home. He said, leave it all set up, we'll pick up in the morning. He went, come on, boy. And you can't remember, I'm just like, do I walk with him? Do I stay? Am I gonna get in trouble? Am I gonna get fired? And he got off and you know, stocky bat, he just started walking. And God bless Louis Latteria, the director. He just said, go on, you're all right. I went, thank you. Because I, do you know what? I would have went. Because he done Buster as well, we all classic on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a fucking fellow, I'm the great dreamer of the day. But that's right, that Buster, I mean. Oh, I'm okay at this thought, yeah, yeah, yeah. Made him act, he's relentless. But I'm gonna say, I would have gone. I wouldn't have let him walk off. He was at that, I looked and I looked. And as I looked at him, if he would have gone like, if he wouldn't have given me the okay, I just, I'm going to see you later. Not I left him. And he was like that, to the day he fucking died. Like you've worked for some people that name when they're fucking from. It's like, but even those parts that the business football factory, even though they seem made for you, you've still got to play the character. It's not a case of you and I going on film set and it's natural that there's still got to be a talent now. I'm glad you said that, James. Because everyone goes, oh, I've met you just like you are in your films. But I've done 60 titles, you know? Yeah. You know, I've done comedy, I've done dramas, I've done, but these iconic films and these cult movies, Football Factory Cass was another great one. I played Tony Bowles, you know, Dead Man Running. Bonded by Blood. Batman? Batman. Batman, forget Batman. Batman was a tiny little thing. It's not a Batman. But I know it's a Batman, but you're not in it if you're not. I mean, listen, everyone says no such thing as a small role. But for me, if there's nothing substantial in it or memorable, it isn't a role for me. But it was early down in my career. And Batman, I took Batman because I'm obsessed with Batman. I just wanted to go from city. Yeah, I see him. You know, I'm obsessed with Batman. If they said Bond or Batman, I'll take Batman. But yeah. Straight away. Why have you never had been a Bond villain? Yeah, but I don't want to be a Bond villain either. I want to be Bond. Yes. And you're fucking kidding. I want to be Bond. Because people go, oh, you're just like you are in your films. I'm like, you know, that scene where me and Danny was on the sofa in the business and we lost everything. And it was sad. And you know what? I just see the tear drop down my eye. And for me, the fourth president, we've all been there, mate. Everyone's fucked up on the gear, fucked up on the booze. We've had it all and we fucked it. And that was a moment for everyone. But let me tell you where that scene was. It was in a box. This big, a box in a warehouse. This big with two beds in it and 300 people outside and cameras everywhere and people sneaking around. So if you think it's easy to put yourself in that bubble and do that, it's fucking work. It's there's an eye in it and this one. And I've got to the point where I go, yeah, no, mate. It's great, isn't it? Don't have to act me. It's easier just to say, I don't have to act. Yeah, yeah, that's easy for me, do you know what I mean? But you're right. First one I got, boxing movie. Boxing, great. I'm a boxer. Great, South London. Sweet, I know villains, easy. I've been very lucky with the first lot of movies to bring me in to the industry and the art because I understand it. If someone would have said to me, go and do Shakespeare for my first job, I would have never have done it. Do it, bring it now. I'll do it, no problem. But they say it takes 20 years to be an actor and I believe that now. The business, that phenomenal follow-up, there's so many scenes that people can relate to, the party and everything, you know what I mean? The following when you've lost everything, you try to get that woman to fuck on you, you're spitting in your hand, try to fix his hair, mate. How was that? I'm getting there and watch you cock. And don't ask me where this come from or even in the streets. Get a semi, get in there and watch you cock and get a semi. Poor bastard, because it did look too straw. You know what, even that day, to play drunk is always difficult, you can always do it. I've never actually played drunk without getting drunk. I'll always say, can you do that either at the beginning where I can lock off or do it at the end? And I haven't had many drunk scenes, but I did one called Blood in Blood Out and I had a drunk party scene with the villain. Well, it was a drunk party scene and I just said, can you let me go? And he went, go on, you got an hour, I just knocked back half a bottle of vodka and I turned up, but you've got to find a balance, you can't turn up fuck, you've found a balance. And I did it. And on that one, I knew we had a big day. And the night before I didn't sleep, I drunk three bottles of wine and smoked two joints and I don't smoke, I don't smoke weed, I've never have done it. It sent me to that, I turned up, horrible. Fucking rot grand and I was angry, I was horrible. I said, fucking put the camera up and Nick went, he's ready, he's ready, he's ready, let's go. And it was just, and a lot of that was, we have to stick to the page because Nick's writing's phenomenal, you know what I mean? It's great. But a lot of it was added in and this and back and forth and back and forth and doing that. And that desperate side of it, I think that's why it worked so well because Danny was fucked, he stayed up, I stayed up. And he's like, it just, see what the great thing about Danny and me where we're friends, he froze things at me and I can react. What are you gonna do, kill me? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Get in there and wash your car. Because I'm mincing up and get a semi and then you're cussing and fucking washing his face with shit. But you're right, an open, and everyone, everywhere globally talks about a business and there was a little stage in my life where I don't want to talk about it anymore but it's, as I've got older, you go up north especially when kids come up and go, I grew up watching you. And your position as an actor changes. Do you think you appreciate it more that you're a little older? So much more, yeah. I didn't get it then, cause I fucked up. We can get into that if you want. I fucked it, royally fucked it. But as you get older, and there's none worse a place than directors gel or actors gel is none worse. But as I got older and people would come over and I've never had a troll, I've never had a bad egg. I feel like I get drunks and the boys fucking step in the market and you've got to squeeze their neck a little bit and go turn it in and bite their earlobes, you know what I mean? And go stop now enough and they go, okay. But it's excitement, they're just excited. So you've got to, and I'm good with everyone. And what they say to you now is a lot more poignant. It means a lot more. Because before when I first started, oh mate, you're the kids in that film, that film's fucking brilliant. Fucking you legend, you fuck it, not you legend then, but now it's, you're a legend. I grew up, you was a father figure to me. And you sit there and you think, how is that? I mean, these kids want to be villains. They want to be, but it's something that they grabbed onto, the playboy or this. And I think the villains I played, well, powerful men, fun men. They had a bit of style, didn't they? And he's, you know, he was everything a young, lightly lad wants to be, do you know what I mean? I think if a man wants to be that powerful, respected, happy, very well dressed, well dressed, you know, not a wrong one. Everybody thinks of that character anyway, and that means everybody's the playboy. Everybody thinks that, not everybody, I know all people who genuinely think. The amount of people I've come up to, you know, real villains, especially up your neck in the woods, that was based on me, weren't it? I'll go, absolutely, it was all you. And it's like Nick wrote it. And when you look at these, because I didn't know who's going to be, but Nick was part of my schooling as well, because he went away and he went, I need you to write a backstory on this character. Because I created it, Nick's got Gold Teeth, and I went, I want the Gold Teeth, Nick, can I have your Gold Teeth in homage to you? He said, what's his second name? I went, Love, Charlie Love, so that was his name. So I paid a lot of homage to that character with Nick. And he went, go away and write a backstory. I said, no less than eight pages, anything more. So I went away and wrote the backstory, and I took that with me through my whole career, because we get ink on a page, unless it's a true life character you're playing, you just get ink on a page, and we have to bring that character to the light. So it works there. You do your work at home. The magic sprinkled on the day on set. You sprinkle the maggots on the set, and you bring it to life. And then he said, write a backstory in it. And I did, I wrote a backstory in it. I mean, it's a bit of a vein. The backstory is a bit of a vein, but it suited the character. And I can tell you, I've never said it before, but I've got it written down somewhere. And I said, and it was my relationship with Sammy as well. We grew up together, and Sammy was, I was actually bullied as a kid. But very similar to my life story, I was bullied as a kid. My father was Irish. That looked like George Best, and my mother was Spanish. That looked like Sophia Loren, hence his good looks. Cause you get a breakdown in it, and that's where he was. And he was always a young, weak child, and Sammy was older than him, but Sammy took him under his wing. Sammy was the kid on the estate that would cut people to pieces and stab him, and the feared one, but loved me. And then he reared me through because my father was killed in an armed robbery. He was a villain. He was killed in an armed robbery. And my mom had to raise me, and Sammy looked after me as a big brother. And then he took me around that way to become a bank robber and a villain. So that was the backstory of him, and I think it worked really well. But as you're going along through the film as well, you have to be careful in what you say. I'll give you one example. That opening scene when I'm getting a blowjob behind the bar and... Can every... Mary Jane Gilles playing in the back end behind the bar. You better fuck off now. In the back of me, do you know what I mean? And it was... There was a scene when I pulled up, and I got spending the old man's money, and she goes, so-and-so's in there. She's got the right assache with you, and she pulls out, you cowboy cat, blah, blah, blah. See, I didn't know that. Well, that wasn't even in the script. So Nick pulled her at the back and gone, and she's married to my uncle Dennis. He's like, an army, do you know what I mean? And then she's come out and she's gone. He's gone, I want you to put Cunt, Kabul, Cunt, that cunt in there, Paki and bank robber. I don't get what you say. Just can't say it. So she's come and go, I'll wait three hours. Who'd have a Kabul cat look like Paki anyway? What's the matter? And I was like, I didn't know he was coming. So I was like, but my dialogue after that was, shut your mouth, you fucking little wretch. You were only with me because I'm looking after you. It was horrible. And for me, I thought I would have lost. And we agreed and Nick would have lost the female audience. You'd have hated him from then because he's a brick. He started off so good, and he went, what are you going to do? No, I don't know. So I think to say, here we go, Nick. And she did it and I just went, drive on. Just what I'm saying is a lot of things in the film with the characters as well, you have to create while you're going along. And there's a lot of things I want to say. I haven't said the N word. I've tried to swerve away from that. I haven't, I've refused to play a terrorist. I've refused, because when I started, there wasn't a lot of us in the game. And there wasn't a lot of men of colour calling what you want in the game. But I'm just getting off of terrorist roles, this role outright. And I thought, if I do them, I'm going to be pigeonholed. So I stopped them. I've refused to pay rapists, to pedophile and all that. Because I have, I have people believe stuff. For this year? Well, they believe what they see. And you can get put in that realm. Yes, I played a villain. Yes, I love playing a villain. I'm too ugly to fucking sit in front of being a romantic lead, right? So I couldn't think of anything worse, sitting opposite a table, reciting poetry to a beautiful leading lady. I want to shoot the guns, I want to drive the guns, I want to crash the guns, I want to have the fights while I'm fit and able. But even when we did Bondi by Blood, it was a bit of dialogue in there that the younger bits who sadly passed away were O.D. And that was a prominent part of that story, it always has been. And there was something in there where I, my dialogue was, I fuck her, the dosy male, or something like a fucking poxy piece of shit, she fucking O.D. fuck, something like that. And I refused to do it. And the director's like, why? And I went because she has parents. And this is a true adaptation of something that if they watch it will really affect them. Anyway, and I said, I'm not saying it. I said, I can change it. And I changed it to something like, you know, the poor thing is drunk too much, we're an O.D., but it's on our head. You know, so it showed a bit of compassion. It wasn't, it didn't have to do, it didn't have to be that. So I try and work, I'm very conscious of what I'll say, especially with doing true life stories. And I think it's the right thing to do because I'm a parent myself. And you know, the rest of the story is the rest of the story. But little things like that. There was a scene that we did wrong turn and someone said to say the N-word. I said, I don't have to say it. I can dance around it. I mean, listen, if I'm doing a film and it's predominantly black versus white, they're doing it and I'm doing it and that's what the story is. But if it doesn't need to be said, I won't say it. She won't say it, I won't say it. Were you ever offended by, you have to go off script and people just have to say shit? Were you ever offended sometimes even though you know it's acting? Frank Harper did it too. Did he? The fucking shit. You probably know this thing. It comes to me to tell you. Frank did it to me on the football pitch when we did the football factory. It wasn't in there. And my name's fucking Millwall Fred. But for once, I'm, yeah, I'm a fucking Ingleso. You know what I mean? I'm one of the boys. I've got an English name. And he just comes out of it. We're sitting there and he just comes out. We're words. Is it that you buy your child a white man? You've got, I mean, a kebab shop in five minutes. Five minutes. Oh, you can't. That's when I went in. Why does it feel doing business with a term? When you're supposed to be writing, Scooby-Doo's that's fucking confusing. You. And I feel that you're a fat fucking Chelsea bridge. If you're looking at it when we were doing it, I was that fucking annoyed. If you're looking, when we clashed, I was just fucking rattling him. I was on him, biting him and fucking. And they were going, stop, stop, stop. It's got to look like a draw because you're going to give the game away. It's not what Chelsea and the next thing. I like, fuck me. Fuck that. And that one time I let him get on top of me. I rolled over. He fucking put that in there, didn't he? But if you listen to Frank carefully, he goes, I'll give you Gallipoli, you cunt. Listen to him carefully. From that day on, according to my fat bastard, all the way through the film, you're having it, do you know what I mean? Those two characters were user unbelievable. Brilliant, weren't they? Yeah, class, man. Because it was a nice mixture. A bit of respect, but also you fucking hatred was there. Yeah, yeah. It was a perfect mixture. Yeah. But it just worked, two men watching the game and I'm doing this. And then he's throwing it, I'm throwing it back at you. Listen, I mean, I think Nick, I think that was his favorite. I think that's most people's favorite scene in that movie. But I mean, Danny's stuff was brilliant as well, weren't it? Fucking. How did you deal with the fame, the attention that comes with it, the glory, like? I was all right with it too. It's with my daughter, fucking terrified. I remember walking through the malls and stuff and I got famous really quick and she used to be terrified but I'd get him mobbed and all that. And I went to watch the business, the business at the cinema near the Blackwell Tunnel and I just said to my wife, I said, let's go, let's just go and sit at the back and see, packed, every cinema. I mean, fucking, it was a phenomenon, even then. And I sat at the back and this is the first bit of fame I really experienced that was quite frightening. And the lights come on and I just got up and took me out, wife by the end, as we were walking out the little round, and I went, it's fucking him, it's the playboy. Because no one knew my name. I've got double-barrowing, I'm not John Smith, am I? Do you know what I mean? So I see him from the business and so I go, hi, everyone like this and they've all started rushing up. And back then, 20, 30, those were the days where famous people were famous. There was no reality TV. So you was famous or you weren't. Do you know what I mean? If you was, you was chased and you was, you know, the fame was fame. And then I remember they all come out, I got pinned against wall, my wife actually pulled me and kicked the fire door through and took me down the fire escape and slammed the door, took me down the fire escape. And then as we come out, they started running and chased us to the car. Fucks sake. It was fucking terrifying. Did you ever worry about that for your kids when you started? Always, always worry about your kids. And I had to have that conversation with them. Listen, you know, your dad's famous now and you've got to be a little bit more vigilant. You've got to be a little bit more careful because people think differently. And, you know, people think we make millions, we don't. We, you know, back then you're a movie star and you need these big cinema blockbusters in these releases. They think you're making millions, you know. I think I've got to pay 15 grand to do the business, you know. That's fucking... 15 grand. Blockbuster fellow, as well. Right, 15 grand, you know. But I would have done it for nothing because Nick Love, thank God for him, see the relationship me and Danny had and gave me my first lead. So it went from there. So I would have probably given him money to do it, you see what I'm saying? Because sometimes you do these... At the beginning, you've got to make these decisions and I made the right decisions. And 15 grand, we spent that while he was there. It was there for him. I had the best time of my life. He's partying. It's not stopped. What we'd do then, it was brilliant. We'd finish work. We'd all go back to the trailer. Me, Jeff, all the boys that were rolling. We'd get the dialogue in and go out on the piss. It was just the best time ever. It was then we'd go down to Montpellier and then we'd go down to here. And honestly, we didn't even let our wives come out. And what we did as well, Nick made us do a dress rehearsal. We had a party in character as well. And we weren't allowed to call each other by our names. It's really weird. Like we called, he was Sammy, I was Charlotte. All the way through. After the set, we had to call each other by the names. It was really bizarre. But within two weeks, I got used to it. And then I finally let the wife come out. She'd come out for a weekend. Because it was my birthday or her birthday or something. And she'd be calling me, Tam, Tam. And I wouldn't listen to her. I couldn't hear her. And then she'd go and then Jeff said, call him Charlie. Because she was on set. She'd go, Charlie, I want that. It was that, and it's only now I'm thinking about these things that they're coming back to me. But it was a fucking, it was a trip, man. It was fucking brilliant. It was weird when we did the wardrobe call. They put me in Farrah's, Serjo. They had Pierre Carden and Sharon. It was fucking horrendous, man. It was, I was in that, it was just like in a room like this in a wardrobe thing. It was all I think, did I used to wear this shit? Did I actually used to wear this shit and feel good in it? But I've got to tell you, when Nick set it up and you was there and he captured the 80s, you put that gear on, we thought we was the baller, we thought we was the baller. Even when you're talking about you look how happy you are, man. It's just fucking great memories. It's just great memories. It just, you know, the industry's changed a lot. It's not like it used to be. I did a TV show called Snatch. And these young kids, these young millennials are terrified to ask directors things. We're a dying breed, I thought, man. We're rock and roll and we've got stories and these kids won't have these stories. They just don't have it. You know what I mean? And they're scared that they've been putting this bubble. And that's the bit of the industry I don't like anymore. I'm sitting there and I won't say it was and she's very famous now. She's doing really well. And a few of the youngsters just kind of go, they call me hunks, hunks, hunks. Do you think I could do it this way? And I go, oh, it's a director. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Can you ask for me? And I'm thinking, where's the creative process in that? At the Alain? And I pulled the director, go, listen, you know, let's get to ask you, why, why did that? And I learned quite quickly, it's not the director, it's them upstairs. It's the little wankers upstairs that fucking, that get a high-powered job and start frying the frets out. You'll never work again. Don't do this, you'll never work in. Don't do that again. You'll never, you get blacklisted, you get this, you get canceled. Horrible, that mindset, it's horrible. Whereas us, rock and roll, mate. Fuck out. Yeah, let's go, you know what I mean? Did you ever burn the oak top? Yeah. When? I burned out early doors. I did. If you think about it, I've been in the business for 25, 26 years, I've done 60 titles, you know. Madness, I was doing two, three films at a time. I miss my kids growing up. And I did burn out because what happened with me was I, we was turning up at clubs, me and Danny in it and it was rock and roll, it was a different, it was a different time. It was, you know, you wouldn't see the near old turn up at a club or doing PA's, but we started getting a fortune for doing these PA's. And I mean, Danny was super famous and super loved. He was a fucking, he was a god. He was a fucking sex symbol. He was great. And I was just following, you know, following him around. And then when we become one in these two films, it was madness, mate. It was like, I can't remember most of it. Like literally, that's what I know, we had a good time because we'd get taken to clubs, we'd get given bottles. Millions of people just, it was like you're sitting and there's ropes around us through back doors. We were like rock stars, but we weren't in the rock star business. We were actors, but we were treated like rock stars. We'd put four, 5,000 people in a club. But not anymore, Danny, because of, you know, he was that guy at the time. And then I'd sort of come and then we'd become one and then they'd double up and then. And then we'd, you know, it got to the point where I started working, getting up early, going out, again, I've heard of going up, working, working, working. And it just started burning me out. And then I started getting ready. Then I started, you know, I started being late for work and I started, and quickly people turn around and go, we can't work with him, he's too much, I've worked as great as he is. We can't work. And it's happened to a lot of people. It's not just me, I'm not special. You know, the, the, the Madsons, the this, the that, all of those great actors, it comes and it can go really quickly. Now I've learned, you're humbled, be grateful, go to work, do your work, go home. I stopped drinking for many, many years. I sat without working for about four years, not understanding why I could walk out on the street and I get mobbed and what the fuck's up with people? Why can't I fucking get a job? Mate, I couldn't even get doctors. I couldn't even bag a job on doctors. It was that bad because the industry will go, it's like anyone, it's a work, it's a workspace. You're a builder, you, you run in a building site, someone turns out self-painting all over the place and fucking disrupting, you know, your workers and disrupt, disrupt, disrupting progress. You're not going to want to, you're not going to want them on your job hire. It's no different in the film game, but we just didn't see it. We thought it was invincible. Well, I did. And by mind you, Danny had a hard time as well. And, and, and then before you know it, mate, the money dries up, the work dries up, the PA's dry up and you're just a famous man that everybody loves, that doesn't know that side of your life. You see what I'm saying here? Because nobody knows that side of my life. Nobody would have known because I would still give out an award and you'd still see me at an event with a tie-on or a black tie event. I'm not one to go to an open-ended envelope, but every now and again, I'll if I decide to go somewhere, I'll go. So the public, the general, I doesn't see that. They just see their fucking hero. They just see Tamara Hassan as the playboy or Milfred or whatever. But then you get to the point where it's one, two, three years and it's like, are you gonna do anything soon? You start fucking fanning, you know? Oh yeah, I'm gonna do this. Oh yeah, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, blah, blah, blah. And then before you know it, you realize that time has passed, a decade has passed and you haven't done those great movies and thank fuck nobody else has neither. Because I don't, I think there was an era of movies prior to that was, you know, Long and Friday, Italian job. I think we cornered an era of British film history. But then that goes and then you have to start again and that's the odd bit. Because you're in an industry, you love so much. You're in an industry that you love and respect so much. How the fuck do you get it back? And it's nine impossible. And you see like Mickey Rook with the wrestler, did that for nothing, mate. And Derek told him, you play out once you're out, got him an Oscar, got him a Golden Globe. So there are comeback stories. Everybody loves a comeback story. What's your name? Iron Man. Robert Downey Jr. Look at all these great combos which is man on the planet. And there was always a comeback story but only you can make that happen and only you can prove. And this is just a bit of a lesson for the younger ones coming through. If you fuck up, you fuck up. But I always remember this. The journey back to where you was is nine impossible. Don't do it. Be professional, be committed, be disciplined, go to work, do your job, go home. Treat it as a job. Don't treat it as a privilege. As if you're giving them a privilege because what we do is a privilege. It ain't a job, it's a privilege. We get to dress up as people. We get to drive the car, shoot the guns, travel the world, meet amazing people, make loads of money when that time comes. And if you abuse that and it goes away, it's the hardest thing in the world to get it back. When we get your lowest time? About 10 years ago. About 10 years ago. It was at that point where everything was on top and it just kept coming and coming and coming. And I found myself, I've always delivered good performances. Sometimes I was having a laugh, so I've delivered my best performances drunk. You know what I mean? Or hungover. But I've never fought in a role. I've never fought in a scene. I've never fought in my commitment to delivering the art, whether it be one scene or 300 scenes. Never ever fought. I've always been. And if you look at some of the behind the scenes stuff, we mean Danny. We're just about to kick that door in and rob the Spanish people at the end of that show and I'm behind the door, Danny. You ready? You ready when a fucking idiot is coming around? He's going around. We get psyched up for it. So we actually go in now. We go in. We don't just do it, we go in. So I've never fought with that. But on the outside of it, with the industry and with my behavior, and it wasn't done. And this is the sad part of it. When you don't know you're doing it and you can't see it and you're blinded by the lights and you're blinded by the bullshit and you don't know you're doing it and there's no one there to fucking tell you're doing it. And if there is, you're not listening to them because you've been there talking shit. Shut up, you fucking devil. Don't tell me. You look at me. I've done this. And you get to that. And that's the odd bit. When you finally have nothing and you won't know until you have nothing and trust me, as good as God made little green apples, I don't give a fuck who you are. You will end up with nothing. You ever saw a sayudo? No, never. Never had mental problems. Never, by the way, I'm very, very strong. Strong in my heart, strong in my soul. I've been through a lot. It takes people to that though, to be at the height of the biggest name in British films to then, you feel as if you're on a decline. You've kind of losing jobs. You're burning bridges that people think lives over. Social media, reality TV is happening now. It's happening now. It's happening all the time. And it's plaguing us at the moment, especially in men. But for me, I've always been strong. And I've been strong because I am somebody who serves and protects. I know that. Everybody will go and say, I'm a closer. Takes a certain person to close a deal. I'm an opener. You wanna fucking get in the door with a pope. I'll open the door. You've got to get in there and do the deal. I can do all of that stuff. But I serve and protect. I have responsibilities, which is my family. And my family's family. And my family's family's family. And I'm now thinking about my grandchildren and their grandchildren. So I have responsibilities. So I don't have time to be suicidal. I have time to be, to have mental issues. Listen, I'll get me home and I'll fucking have, throw a skit's now and again, but it quickly goes. I know how to get rid of it quite quickly. And I'm good at talking people out of stuff as well. How did you worry for your daughter? I've been on a reality show because a lot of people will maybe go to acting school and then maybe do 10 years of the craft like yourself, not through an inter-align late because you kind of work your craft and then you've got your big roles. But how did you ever worry for her? Because the attention that that program gets to then worry that you and the cinema and people flooding them. That was a concern. Because I've got a daughter at 12 and she does the acting. She just played. It's the worst thing in the world. The daughter coming out to her father again. I don't wanna go out of love either. Can you imagine, especially me and me. But no, my daughter actually went to drama school. She was classically trained. She did Irish dancing. She's a trained actress, trained singer-dancer. She'd done all of that stuff. But going back to what I was saying before, how it affected me being mobbed with the fame put her completely off it. She didn't want anything to do. They weren't going nowhere near it. So she took up makeup and become really good at it. Was making a lot of money at it. And then she had a few bad boyfriends. And then she just had the fucking blue. Dad, I want to go on Love Island. What? She's a fucking wind up. And I went, I'm going to buy you with the details. But we went, she went on Love Island. And I said to her, look, what's your end game? She was 21, I think at the time. And she went, well, I want 150,000 followers. I want five salons. And I want my own makeup range. And I want to flow it to L'Oreal for 100 million. How old are you? 21, and I thought, how do I say no to that? How do I stop that? And I was overwhelmed at just that. And I just said to her, look, just go in there. If you don't find love, darling, have the best holiday of your life. It's a game show. And remember, I'm fucking watching now. I'm watching everything. I'll be fucking saying the same. I'm watching every fucking movie. Stand right side of the villa with a shotgun. Yeah, exactly. I'll be on that roof. And you know who your dad is, right? Yeah, remember who your dad knows? She's right. She's like, dad, dad, I've got it, I've got it. And you know what? She went in. She's done amazing, man. And I see a lot of your traits in her now. Maybe there's kind of similarities. We're in her like that. Me and her, I like that. Did you worry though, every night? Nah, do you know what? I can't tell you. You start enjoying yourself. My mum, and I wouldn't watch it, but my mum, I watched a bit of it, but my mum taught me to respect women. We live under women's feet as men. We bow down to women. My mum taught us to be like that. And to raise my daughter. I raised my sister. I never locked her up, especially being from a Turkish community. They got sitting doors, they got to do, you know, they can't move. They got very strict, but we wasn't like that. My sister's like, I'll pick you up, drop you off. Wanna wear some heels, we're buying some. My daughter was out this time of the year. I'm like, my wife and my son were disciplined in the life out of her, but I was the one actually. Oh my God. I was an Aussie dad. Me and her are very, very close. And she literally went in and she, like, the producer would call me. I don't know if they'd call anyone off, but they'd come and go, Tam, listen, it's gonna be a bit wronged tonight. The task is a lap dancing, wronged. She, maybe you shouldn't watch it. Ha ha ha ha. And I'm like, I'm okay. I'm like, I'm in Switzerland. I'm on a rally. I won't watch it anyway. Like this, boom. But when I got back and I won't still walk out on them steps, even though she's my daughter, like she's touching six foot. Beautiful, stunning. Walks out in slow-mo. I was so proud. I was so like overwhelmed. I'm not like that. Listen, I'll put her in the line when she needs to be put in the line, but I just looked at her. Go on, girl. You know what I mean? Look how, look how I'm mad. I get goosebumps when I talk about it. Look how amazing you look. Look how beautiful you are. Go and show them what. Go and show them what God gave you. Go on. Be the best you can be. It doesn't matter what. It can't know who you are as a person. I'd go on shows and I'd be on the right stuff and stuff like that. It was all predominantly first. So I used to get called on to stages, but I'd say, Hollywood actor, hard man, actor, Tom Hassan. Now I get invited to the surface. Star of Love Island, Bill Hassan's dad. That's how big it was for her. That's how big the show was. You're the same show. I'm just saying. I'm just a doctor. Bob, that's what you might be. I'm a pro, bro. But yeah, go on them and you'd have people phoning in like, how could you let your daughter do that? I'm a hang on swear. Well, first thing she said, she's 21. Second, I can't really tell her what to do. She's a strong, powerful, independent woman. Thirdly, as a parent, the best I can do is guide her. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you got ignorance around it. But then she went in there and she was fucking brilliant. I watched it all. She came out, she had a million followers and I sat her down again and me being in the industry and where I've messed up, I'm not going to allow her to mess up. I wasn't going to allow her to fall out of nightclubs, doing PA's, drunk with a load of boys around her. We predominantly set up a mat for her with her makeup, her tutorials, her singing and her presenting. And I said to her, you've got a million followers, which had a million too, then. She went, yeah, that's great, then. And I went, hang on. What's the age group? She went, I think from like eight up until 17. You got responsibility, girl. You got responsibility to these girls now. Remember that. And she got it straight away. She didn't even, you're right, that. She's never put Botox in her mouth, in her face. She's never put fillers in her lips. She's not had no veneers. Not saying there's a problem with that. And she was probably one of the first ones to come out with no makeup on. Turns out no makeup and her glasses on and her geeky dogs and messes about. And then it was quite funny a little while back. My wife said something to me about, oh no, it wasn't my wife. It was someone else in my family. I went, it's better, okay. I went, yes, it's fine. I don't watch your stuff, TikTok stuff. I don't watch it. Because there's so much. She said, it's about a cow. She had a meltdown on Instagram. I went, hang on, that's what I call you about. But you're right, love. She said, yeah, she wasn't out, you had a meltdown. And she went, yeah, I did that. I went, what are you doing that for to the public? Why are you showing that? She went, because dad, I have a responsibility to do it, like you said. Because everything ain't fucking rosy. Everything isn't always great. And people need to know that our lives ain't perfect, because I'm always smiling and doing this and doing that. No, if I'm having a meltdown, I want to show them that everything we're normal. I went, good for you, girl. But are you okay? She said, I'm okay. Is it good? I know you're very big on mental health. Is that because you had struggled yourself about 10 years? Yeah, I've just- You get a better understanding of her. No, when I say I've not had mental health, I've known how to deal with my issues. How do you deal with them? Everybody has mental health issues and everybody, even when I say I don't have mental health, we all have mental health. We just learn how to deal with it. Some people are stronger than others. And for me, I always find a way around it. I always find a solution to the problem. I don't, I go to prison. Most people go to prison and go, I'm fucked, my wife's gonna leave me. I'm gonna die. And they go on that slope of, fuck it all, go on that, send them, do that. I'll go and go, great, I'm gonna lose weight. I'm gonna read and I'm gonna get in the gym. And the great thing is, I get three meals a day and I don't have to give anyone any money. Just see what I'm saying? So that's kind of my mentality around things. It's around that with everything. Everything I do, I do it with love and the best medicine for me is don't give a fuck. I just get on with it. And I don't have much sound, sort of, you know, easy and perhaps some people could say, you know, you're fucking easy for you to say, you've got a great family. Whatever I've got, I work for. Whatever I've got, I create myself. And I started seeing this mental, these mental breakdowns in my family and around the communities and around where I lived and people. And I started thinking about why are people getting on drugs? Why are people doing this? Why are people coming to college? And I started, I'm a bit geeky when it comes to things, researching stuff. I will sit and I'll research stuff and I'll look at stuff. And then I started sort of looking at it and then I started thinking about what we was told as kids. And all my mum and dad used to say, and everyone around us, don't go near him, he's fucking mad. Don't go near him, he's a nutter. And the more they hear it, the worse they get because that's what they're told they are. That's what they are. We're programmed to do as we're fucking told. We're programmed as humans to adapt to our environment. You're a product of the environment, as they say. And I started looking at it and I'm thinking, is he fucking mad though? Is he mad? Is he this? Is he that? And why are we being taught that? Why is that being drummed into us? He's a nutter. If he's a nutter, da-da-da-da. And then I started looking at the suicide rates and all of that stuff. And then predominantly I'd really looked into it hard around the lockdown and the pandemic, looking at the stats. And we set up something called Mind Soldiers, which was then, and then we set up something called Mask Our Heroes, which is another charity that we was giving out PPE and stuff. But you started looking at going around these hospitals, you started seeing people in it and the mental states they're in. Then you start looking at reality TV, why people are, they have their six months of fame, the next show and the new ones and they're done, they're finished, they're going to kill themselves. Then they start getting on the gear. And it was all predominantly around crying and speaking. And why, I was looking at, why is it predominantly more in men? You know, men are stronger. Men are the money-getters. Men can go out and have a good time. Men, men, men, men. To be a man in my head is great. To be a woman, it's like, you've got to give birth, you've got to have periods, you've got to have this, you've got to have that, you've got to put up with this. You know, for me, being a man was always fucking the best thing in the world. And then looking at it, you started thinking they don't talk. The masculinity. We won't cry. I remember like, when I was crying, like, if I cried, stop crying, were you a little girl? Had they, don't you dare, let me see you crying. What's the worst thing in the world? Crying's the biggest healer on the planet, you know, expressing yourself, talking. And we set up these chat rooms as well. And what it was is, we set up these little cells of chat rooms where people from all around the world could sit in that little, that little bubble, that little bed where, and the whole thing around it was, if you're lying in bed and you look over, you've got your wife there, you've got a cop with a baby in, you've got two kids in another room, you ain't going to wake your wife up and go, I'm suicidal. You ain't going to do it because we're men. And that's how we're raised. So what are you going to do? You're going to go downstairs, you're going to top yourself, or you're going to try and work through it. But you're never going to call anyone three o'clock in the morning, are you? Yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult, right? You've been there? Yeah, yeah. The thoughts with the gear and the booze, the gambling, that's all an escape. And then it's the depression, you don't feel good enough. You feel like a loser. You keep doing it to try and numb the pain, escape from the pain. Head in a bowl of a bowl. Yeah, one half, I'm good friends with the Iceman and his wife committed suicide, he snapped, just pushed himself to cold water, saved him because it was the, with a cold water that's 200, raises your dopamine levels 250%, lowers anxiety, lowers depression. He didn't know this at the time. Frazier Moa, brilliant friend. Yeah, everything I believe should be natural to heal the pain. Speaking out as a must, again, the reason why suicide rate is so high in guys, because we've got the fuck it button. We've not got the feminine energy where girls sit in me packs and talk all their bullshit out. We just fucking sit behind the drink and the mask all with their lies. I'm fine, I'm okay. That's the man, open up, put your hands up and say, what I'm fucking struggling? I don't like to job them in, I've got debt, whatever. I do suicide in Glasgow with Chrissie's house. I'm an ambassador for, I've seen kids coming in with the rope buns. And the first thing they think about when they're hanging from the rope, like two kids have come in the ropes. The first thing happens when they jump from the, when they jump to kill themselves is once they start feeling the pain, I don't want to die. I don't want to die. As soon as they jump, one kid jumped to my fucking bridge. I've come broke his two legs and survived. Now the boy does his own talks now, I've come out of the suicide center like it's unbelievable. But the first thing he thought about when he jumped out of the bridge was, I don't want to die, what have I done? So we've all got something here. Don't commit suicide. The pain's up here that you can change the way you think and feel. How's your relationship with your brother now? My brother's good. I just want to touch on this, find yourself a self, find yourself a group of people that are on a WhatsApp group, just have a normal WhatsApp group where you can, and it should be global. And where you can tap and go, is anyone around? I need to speak. And someone will come in. And the minute you start talking, because I have done this and people will tell you that, social media is what it is for me. Social media. Socialize, right? And people would, I need you to drive my wife, my wife mad at me, what are you doing? I just donate two hours a day. And it won't even just chat into single moms, talking to them about why they should live, why they shouldn't live. And you just talk them around. Even if it's in Texas, you have to fucking talk boys. You have to talk, speak to someone. And if you see someone, and I know this is cliched, you heard it all before, if you see someone that you think's okay, still ask. Because you don't know what's behind their minds. Check in. How are you, mate? You all right? You sweet? Somebody's just split up with their wife. Check in on a regular basis. Someone's just lost something. Someone's got the sack. Someone's, the minute you hear somebody say, oh fuck, you ain't gonna fucking believe this, check in. Where can people get this up? Check in. It's called, is that an app? It's on, I'm gonna give it to you. It's called 24 seven. I'm gonna give it to you. I'm gonna give it to you. It's a phoning. It's a phoning thing. But the one we've got, I'm not promoting it or saying it, but what I'm saying is, get a group of, mind space, mind space. It's called mind space, but I'll get you the details. Get a group of guys. You all know, you all know what you're going through. We joke about it. But even jokes, get a group of you. Put it out there. Put it on your social. Say listen, I'm setting this, be brave enough to go and do a story. I'm setting up a little WhatsApp group. There's the WhatsApp number. If you wanna come in and you're struggling, go on the WhatsApp group. Just set it out. It's the easiest thing. A live story, just set it up. Set up a WhatsApp number, invite people into it. Put it on there, invite people into it. It would be predominantly men. And then they can just sit there and go three o'clock in the morning, get up, I'm having an hour time. Can it is anyone about? Someone will come on. How's the relationship with your brother now? He says he's on a good path. Big brother? Yeah, he's good. Yeah, he's good. He was having a bit of a moment the other day blessing me. He's just lost his wife. He hasn't had a relationship for 10 years, 11 years, and he woke up and she was lying face down dead next to him, which is always tough. He was gonna get engaged on the Saturday. She passed one on the Friday. It was about a year, 80 months ago, but he has his ups and downs and we're checking on him. And he, he's very much of that ilk. I'm all right. I'm all right, bruv. Don't worry about me. I'm sweet. I'll get through it, but you're not. You don't get through it because I know he says to me, ping me a few quid. I've got no dough. I send him a few quid. I know he's sitting in the park with a case of beer, reminiscing what's happened and that doesn't get him anywhere. But then he goes missing. My mom checks in on him and he went missing for about two weeks. And he's always around me, mums. He's every day to stop. So he's very simple, man. He's not like me, extravagant and all that. He's got his bike, he gets on his bike. He does a bit of labour. And he's a very, very simple man, a beautiful one, which I could be like at some time. Life's very simple. When he goes around me, mums, every day has a bit of dinner. She hasn't seen him for two weeks. So it's just something about him. He'll always answer to me. My sister's driving mad. This one, do one, just one answer. I pick up and say, you all right, son? He goes, yeah. Just struggling. Ah, just me heads all over the place. And they want to admit me to Mausley. But they can't hear what he's saying. Like, I was like, what, the mental hospital? He goes, yeah, what's the matter? Wow, because I'm releasing it by shouting in my room. He lives in the room. And I go, well, you're just shouting? And he goes, yeah. But to me, that's okay. To scream out a problem is okay. But everyone around him thinks he's losing his nut. So I just said to him, what do you need? He said, oh, I'm scared. I've got lovers. I said, all right. Do you want to speak to your favourite niece? Because even my daughter would get on well. I ended the phone over to him. We was on the phone for about an hour. Just talking about stuff, normal stuff. I pinged over a little bit of money into his account. At the end of it, I said, I'll put some money in your account. Go and get some food. Go and get a bit of grub. You had a good time. He went, it's exactly what I needed. Thank you so much. It's all I needed. It's a bit of love, a conversation and a bit of grub. You know what I mean? It's like nothing. And that's our relationship now. Me and my brother, that's our relationship. We locked in, but that's funeral. We've had our ups and downs. We used to fight a lot, but we're all right. He's old. He's not well. I say he's old. He's going to be 60, but he was an alcoholic and 14 years old. He's ravaged him. Do you know what I mean? See, we're your success. Do you think that can play a part on people around you thinking they never reached those heights as well? Yeah, he did. He hated me. He had those regrets. He hated me every time I got drunk. He'd fucking smash into me and destroy me verbally. I never bothered. He was just a drinker. I don't worry about a drinker. But yeah, he had it. But then he started doing featured artist work. He fucking loves it. Do you know what I mean? He turns up on set. He works more than me. He's working every day with work, do you know what I mean? Well, you won't know. I'm a Mission Impossible now. What are you doing? Because we're running down the street. We're doing this. We're doing that. He's happy. He's happy. He's low and then he can't do a bit of labouring. And he says, hey, you quit. I've got today, brother. I'm like, brilliant task. Just keep going. It's funny, man, because the people who come back from addiction are the most beautiful people on the planet. Because they see the world differently. Do you know what it's like to be at fucking rock bottom? Yeah. Because I always say this, shit. No cunts coming to save you. Fucking no cunt. You're making a dig. You've got dates. And when you do that and start making changes, see the world a little differently. Start seeing the player. You can make, you can change the world. Absolutely. You can fucking change the game. Even him now, he was jealous before. He goes, I fucking owe you out now on that set. I go, well, we don't look alike, but we've got the same eyes, isn't we? And I tell him, I'm your brother. Where does that get? He goes, gets me more grub. A little bit more money. They look after me, but good for you, brother. Good for you. But a phenomenal career. Where do you go for the future, brother? James Bond. I'm telling everyone, they won't have it. James Bond, if they can call me Millwall Fred or Charlie Love, why can't they call me James Bond? And if it's possible. If it's possible, brother. I don't know, mate. I don't know. I tell you what, I've been, I've taken different directions in my life and my career. In the last three years, the pandemic really shook everyone up. It was great for me. I was always away from home and I have a lovely home. I have a lovely house with all the amenities and stuff. And I'm always away from the family. And when we got locked down, the sun was shining. I said, three months. I was like, fuck, I can't do this. I was the only one that wanted like a year locked down or six months, you know what I mean? Because I could spend time with a family and have a good time and stuff. But I started thinking different. There was my thought process started changing a little bit, especially with the odd times, with how difficult the industry is at the moment as well. Getting offered, I got offered so much crap. I was turning so much crap. I'm still turning crap down now as well. And I won't go into it because it's not there for everybody wants to do a film and wants to get into the business. But the whole mechanism of the film industry has changed now. And I'm okay. I'm an essential element. I'm good. I've made my bones. People all the way as an employer, Tamara. But I started sort of moving into the corporate world, doing things hotel-wise, looking at big deals. And I started enjoying it. I found myself good at structuring deals. I'm sitting in an office in Savile Row with some 10, 15 great, like-minded people. Mikey, his father, we've got a biotechnology company with him. And then we've set up an NFT business. And all these sort of tech things I knew nothing about was ignorant to. Metavos, Bitcoin, stock shares, all the house I go, I leave it. I was a man, buy it, sell it, tangible assets. Or I go to work, I go home and make me money. And years ago, we got to make it with Stevie, wouldn't we? So whatever it took, do you know what I mean? So, and I was always with that guy and an ignorant and a bit of an old dinosaur. But then I was just for, let me have a look at something where I can be successful, make loads of money. I've always been there, I've got to make loads of money. I'm not content with small amounts of money because I have a big family and I have a lot of responsibilities and I want to give, I love giving. I want to give the more I get, the more I give. So I always want to get more, not selfishly, but I want to get more so I can do more and give more. And I just looked into the corporate world and I started looking at other things, developing other things, technical stuff and technology, should I say, not technical stuff. Technology and platforms and trading and all that. And I felt in love with it. And so I kind of parked that up. I did a few little bits, but I parked it up for a minute and then I'm concentrating on this and we've got something that's amazing that we're doing and an NFT project that we're doing, which I believe is gonna be a real big deal. It's considering that sort of 2, 3% of the world is sitting in that marketplace. I missed the dot-com era, I was too young and I know how people made trillions in that. I missed the trading platforms. I missed the properties in Dubai. So I didn't have money, wherever I made it. So I've always missed the boat. And me and Mikey's dad Andy decided we're not gonna miss a boat in this one. And we've got our kids have grown up and they're smart and they're in that world. And we're gonna jump on that bandwagon, understand it and create something memorable and brilliant that's gonna change everybody's lives around us forever. But I think that's your nature. I just did that with the times, but like you say, everything changes every 20 years I believe. 10, nothing. And it's just a case of you rolling with the punches and learning the trade and no doubt you'll be the top boy at that. Got Mikey here today who's gonna come on after you. So let's touch on what Mikey's about. Well, Mikey is my protege, Andy. That's his dad. He's mine now, I've taken him. Andy is a wonderful, wonderful young man who is the meaning of new millennial for me. He's very smart. He's a good kid. He's never wanted to be at school. He goes to school and he's educated himself but school's never been for him. And he's always been an innovator. He's always been somebody that tries to look at ways of making money, changing the blueprint, creating stuff, understanding stuff. His father's the same. He's very much the same. He's got a brother, an older brother. He's probably not so much like them but his sister, Amber's very driven and ambitious but his dad's a proper, smart creative wheeler dealer and he's taking his father's trades, little things. His dad was telling me like, he said when he was a kid, he was putting him on a tractor, a little tractor, a little digger. He's digging away. He's teaching him how to do the digging and stuff. The first thing that comes out of his mouth is, what is this digger, dad? He goes, we've rented it. Oh, you've rented it. He goes, why haven't you bought it? He said, well, we're gonna buy it. He said, well, when you buy it, can I rent it? That big. So his entrepreneurial brain has always been ticking and then he got to the point. It's quite funny. About a year, eight months ago, I went to his dad's birthday party and he was trading crypto and winning. Telling his dad, dad put 400 quid here, take it out, put 400 quid here. I think he's, I think he's, I think he had about 30, 40 grand between them. The dad, just on his intuition, his instinct and his know-how on the crypto market. And I put my arm around him at the party and I said, everyone invest in this boy because this time next year, he's gonna be a billionaire. He's your man, just as a jovial far away and we're here now. And he's created this amazing idea and his concept in the NFT space, which the NFT space has been a little bit volatile at the moment as well. But what he's created, he's created something that's very unique. He's created smart contracts around it. He's created utilities around it. He's audited it. He's created a game, a comic, a film and a community that I think is gonna be way bigger than just the NFT idea that he's brought to the table. I mean, his dad are fully behind him. We've put a whole team behind him, a technical team behind him to create and develop his dream. And I'm gonna hand you over to him and let him tell you about it. But honestly, you will have him on very soon, in America, speaking about his successes and how great he is. And I'm gonna hand you over to him, Mikey. The stage is yours, my baby. But time for coming on today and telling your story, mate. I really enjoyed that. For anybody that's watching though, just maybe struggling, what advice would you have for them? Speak, talk. It's page one. Have the courage to wake up and speak to your wife. Because let me tell you something, your wife would rather hear what you've got to say than cry it grave. Simple as that. Tom, absolute legend, mate. Love you, mate. And speak to you in a back.