 Hello everybody and welcome to the Bitcoin show. What are we at episode 11 or something like that? I've got to put on my granny glasses here, but today we've got some amazing breaking news happening. We had so many things we had to like actually move some things that are not so urgent to tomorrow, but we've got several things happening. Here with us in person is Marwan Salem. Is it Salem or Salem? Salem. From who's the owner of Mezzy Grill? We're going to talk with him in a few minutes. We've also got Joining Us Live via Skype, Jared Kenna, Adam Stradling, and Francisco Dagnino. Did I say all your names right? Yeah. Close enough. From Trade Hill. These are the gangs, three of the principles of tradehill.com. So they're going to be joining us as well for some of the discussions. The first thing I wanted to bring to everyone's attention, because this is breaking news, Ed pointed out that he just discovered, I don't know if you guys have heard this yet, but this is from the desk of Tom Williams, operator of MyBitcoin.com. So this is hot off the press. There's not a date or time attached to it, but we just discovered it. I think it's brand new. But he says, and I'm just going to, it's pretty short, so I'm going to just read it really quick. There are a lot of unanswered questions floating around on the Bitcoin forum and other places about recent Mt. Gox password leaks, the theft from MyBitcoin and theft from MyBitcoin.com system. He said, and Tom, by the way, obviously he's the owner of MyBitcoin.com, which is not an exchange site. It's a Bitcoin-only transaction service. He says, I'm going to attempt to answer any of the questions and concerns as best I can and to silence the rumor mill once and for all. As many of you already know, Mt. Gox was hacked and its password file leaked. As soon as we heard about the leak, we were closely monitoring the system for abnormal activity and we didn't see any. At first glance, we didn't see any hard evidence that a password leak had even occurred. There was just a speculation of an SQL injection vulnerability at Mt. Gox's site. A few clients of ours had informed us on the forum threads and we watched them very carefully. The following morning, a client of ours sent us the download link to the leaked Mt. Gox password file. We promptly downloaded the file, put up a warning on the main page and disabled the login. We attempted to line up usernames from the leak and we found a lot of matching ones. Some people were using the same username and the same password. Big, big mistake, people. You've got to use a unique password. It's got to be scrambled letters and numbers, not your dog's name or your wife's name or your birth dates and anniversaries and all that. And it has to be long, like 16 characters long and you don't use it anywhere else. Anyway, we attempted to line up usernames from the leak and we found a lot of matching ones. We started locking down all of those accounts using a script that we had to have written at the moment's notice. It was during this time we noticed a flurry of spends happening, even with the site disabled. The attacker had active sessions open to the site. We quickly flushed them and the spend stopped abruptly. We disabled the SCI, all payment forwarding and all receipt URL traffic on all of the usernames in the Mt. Glock leaks. We proceeded to change the passwords on every account where the username matched our systems database. PGP signed emails, went out to all of the accounts that we changed the password on. If an account didn't have an email address or already had been compromised, we put up a bulletin. Email addresses were mandatory when we opened our service initially, but people complained that it wasn't truly anonymous, so we made them optional. Unfortunately, this makes contacting a security compromised customer impossible. An investigation was conducted at that time and we determined that the attacker had opened up a session to each active user password payer ahead of time, solved the capture, and used some sort of bot to maintain connection so our system wouldn't time out on the session. It was likely his intent to gain access to more accounts than he did, but as soon as he noticed that we had changed the main page on the site, he sprung into action by sending a flurry of spends. Before you ask, no, we didn't limit logins per IP address, we can't. We have a lot of users that come in from TOR and ITP, et cetera, et cetera. We've concluded that around 1% of the users on the leaked Mt. Glock's password list file had their Bitcoin stolen from mybitcoin.com. It is unfortunate and a horrible experience for the Bitcoin community in general. The IP address that the attacker used was a TOR exit node and the spends were to an address that is outside of our system. If you go to mybitcoin.com and you log on, change your password to a long, secure password, read the bulletin and you can read the bulletin in its entirety, but I think, I don't know when this happened, but I just discovered it. We just discovered it this morning. So that's horrible. Did you guys know about this at trade home? Right. Yeah. That's a disaster. Okay. So I'm going to plug one more time a video that we're producing later today or first thing tomorrow morning. We're doing a fully edited video tutorial how to, how to secure your Bitcoins on your own computer, absolutely securely. You buy a new computer or you take an old computer out of the closet. We're going to do a how to do it yourself tutorial so that people who have any significant number of Bitcoin can basically they wipe out the whole entire system, install Linux on it, install a Bitcoin client on it, and we're going to teach people how to do that in a real simple way. And then we're going to have some experts review the script beforehand and then also review the video after before we actually publish it. But it's going to be here on onlyonetv.com. It'll be one of the videos. I'm sure that'll go viral because people need to know how to secure their Bitcoin safely. And it's not even a matter of trusting Tom at my Bitcoin. It's hackers that can hack into a site. But if we do it right and you do it yourself on your own computer, it can be unhackable. It'll be as secure as the Bitcoin network itself. A lot of people are getting confused thinking that the Bitcoin network has this vulnerability. It's not the network at all. It's just the fact that sites do exist on the internet. So anyway, we'll come back to those issues. The other one, the breaking news is many people know if you go to mountgox.com, you'll see that they're saying that anyone who has reclaimed their mountgox account, they will have access to it on Friday, June 24, around 3 a.m. UTC GMT time, which is Thursday, 11 p.m. That would be 11 p.m. tonight, New York time. So you should be able to log on to your mountgox account after that time. And remember you go to claim, is it claim.mountgox.com to, or just go to mountgox.com and read the bulletin and there's a link to it there. And you'll be able to enter your credentials and they have to verify your identity. It's a mess. And my Bitcoin is going to have to do the same thing now. So anyway, these are sort of troubling times, but we'll make our way through it. So all right, back to the topic of today's show is, as I said, Marwan Salem is here from Mezi Grill. And Mezi Grill is authentic Mediterranean food in Callista Columbus Circle here in Midtown Manhattan. And he's getting a lot of notoriety as being one of the first brick-and-mortar retail stores or restaurants or any kind that accepts Bitcoin right in the store at the cash register. So let's talk, we want to talk about for a few minutes what, how that happened and how it came about. And it's a personal story, but go ahead. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, you and I became friends, you know, just through my restaurant. And, you know, I remember a few months back, you know, your excitement about Bitcoin and talking about it, oh, you know, so much, you know, I remember how excited you were about the concept and it started growing and growing. And at one point, you said, Marwan, this is something you have to get on to, you can be right on the front edge, you can be on the cutting edge of this. So I said, hey, why not, we're a new business, we might as well try something new and see how it goes. And it's been, it's been a really great, you know, it's been a really great experience for it. We've gotten some, some really nice coverage for it. We've had a lot of customers inquire what it is, you know, we have a sign right in front of the, right in front of the store posted right in the window saying we accept Bitcoins. There's a sign at our register that indicates that. So it's been a great, it's been a great thing for us. So I'm very anxious to see kind of where it goes. It's such an exciting product and, you know, how it's developing, especially for retail use. I mean, it's, it's, it could really be great. So. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, to tell, to tell the audience a little bit of the backstory, because this is really about, about all of us here, because the way it, you know, what happened is, and I live here in Midtown, Manhattan, and Mezzy Grill is right here a few blocks from Columbus Circle. It was our neighborhood. It sells kitchen. It's called as the name of the neighborhood. And we used to go there. We just used to go there and we love the food. We were going there once or twice or three times a week and loving the food. And that's how we met Marwan, obviously. He's the owner. He's very friendly and, you know, he'll come and say hello if he's available and so on. So he used to sit down with us and we just yak and yak. And we talk about technology. Remember, we talk about phones, smartphones, apps, technology, all kinds of stuff. We're launching an Internet television network. Oh, how cool that is. Exactly. And I told him about Bitcoin and even at the time, it was kind of like, you know, what's that? You know, but eventually he said, okay, sure, let's do it. So it's very cool. What a lot of people want to know is the checkout process. So I, you know, the way it happened is I taught Marwan how to do this, of course, because, you know, I'm Mr. Bitcoin, I guess. So, but tell me how you're doing it. Well, what we do is a test. It's, I mean, it's real simple. I mean, what we do is, you know, we have a QR code that's, you know, assigned directly for our, what I'd say is our Bitcoin bank account, you know. And when customers come, if they want to pay in Bitcoins, we've had, we had a customer who came in actually last Friday who used his smartphone and scanned our, our QR address or our Bitcoin bank account, as I like to call it, you know, and, you know, he asked how much it was. We went to Mt. Gox at first, got whatever the last trading price was, converted dollars to Bitcoins and said, you know, your transaction is, you know, 0.75 Bitcoins. And the guy, you know, hit send. And then about a minute later, I got a confirmation and it worked seamlessly. We actually had another customer who had come in, I think we were actually featured in a story that was written on Fortune, Fortune magazine's technology blog, which is on CNN. And this customer was visiting from San Francisco and happened to be at the Time Warner Center, like two blocks away from our restaurant. He saw this story come up on his laptop and he decided, he's like, wow, this restaurant is just two blocks away from where I am. And he was on his way to the airport, you know, but he said, I got to try this. And he actually came with his laptop and he didn't have an Android-enabled phone, but he came with his laptop, tethered it to his cell phone and said, I want to pay you using Bitcoins and actually went through the process. No kidding. And worked no problem. No problem. This is a weird kind of unique interview because I already know the answers to all the questions. So I'm going to pretend like I don't know the answers. Because I know the answers to all these questions because I know you set it all up. But you know, I told you that was going to happen. People are going to go there specifically because, oh my gosh, this is history of the making. I want to see what a restaurant looks like that takes Bitcoin. We had customers who called us. And you know, while I think we serve great food and hopefully our customers think the same thing, you know, we've had customers who've called and said, where are you located? Do you guys still accept Bitcoins? How later are you open? And they're not coming for the food. They're coming specifically for the ability to make that transaction to say, I paid with Bitcoin. But let's make it clear. I'm going to say it again. The reason that we discovered messy grills because the food is so great. They have amazing, amazing food. It's really, really good and delicious and fresh and you know, very fresh and a lot of organic ingredients. And that's as much as possible. Very, very healthy. It's kind of like, it's like, it's sort of almost like an upscale fast food, but it's very affordable and very healthy choice, right? Yes. Yes. And I'll pull the disclosure. Of course, messy grills is a sponsor as you probably already know. You've heard all about it. You've been everywhere all the media. Well, we're a big fan of only one TV. Right. And how has, I know that you've got, you've received a lot of media attention because I keep getting asked, you know, for your contact details from all these media things. Yes. How does that, I mean, how has that affected you or the restaurant, all this media attention? It's been really nice actually. I mean, it's been, it's nice getting, you know, the attention from the media. I mean, a lot of people are very fascinated by the Bitcoin concept and we keep getting the same questions from them. You know, they're very fascinated by how does it work? How do you transact it? How do you account for it? You know, are you worried that there's going to be, you know, problems with it? And I just say, you know, we've had so many great transactions so far. You know, it's just worked just like we're taking dollars. And, you know, for us, as a merchant, you know, one thing that appeals to us so much about Bitcoin is the fact that it's a transaction, it's a peer-to-peer transaction with no middleman and no transaction charge. And, you know, one thing that was really interesting, actually a tweet that I read two days ago published by the Wall Street Journal, they said credit card merchants, i.e., people like me, merchant fees have gone up 164% since 2000. Really? When they were, yes. And I'll flip your topic. I thought they were going down with competition. Merchant fees, the amounts that we pay as merchants, we pay, the amounts has gone from, I think in the U.S., it was about $23.6 billion to, in 2010, credit card merchant fees were over $65 billion. Oh, I get it. I get it. I get it. See, I think that the percentages might have been creeping down with competition, but the overall dollar amount is going up because the newspaper guy on the corner takes visa, everybody takes visa, because so now, like, it's very, very hard to find any kind of merchant that doesn't take credit cards. Well, there's also all the rewards points, all the airline miles, all your American Express points, all these things. Merchants pay for those, and for customers who are looking for a seamless, one-way transaction to transact something electronically because they don't want to carry cash or carry change, Bitcoin is so appealing and it's so simple for people to be able just to go, like with us, to take a QR code, swipe it, done. For those who don't know, if you've never been a merchant at all, a chargeback is basically a credit card version of a balanced check, when a check is returned for NSF, non-sufficient funds. It's sort of like that. A chargeback is where the bank takes your money back later after the fact, visa, mastercard, all the credit cards, and PayPal can do that six months later. So with Bitcoin, let me ask you how many chargebacks have you had? Zero. Zero. Because we know, obviously, that was a trick question. There's no such thing as a chargeback and there's no fees. It's just done. Now when you, initially, we're going to Mt. Gox, all of us, we're going to Mt. Gox because 90% of the online purchases were happening through Mt. Gox and to get the value of Bitcoin, but now we talked about it this morning that you're going to, everybody's looking at Trade Hill now for the value of a Bitcoin at the moment, obviously, because Mt. Gox is down, it'll be back, but at the moment, we're looking at Mt. Gox, I'm sorry, Trade Hill for the price. That's right. Now, a lot of people in the earlier days, they're still in the early days, but in the earlier days, people were asking, they were speculating that merchants are not going to like Bitcoin because it's too volatile, that the price goes up and down, and it changes minute to minute. How do you feel about that? Has that been a worry? You know, that hasn't really been such a big concern. I mean, the thing is, truthfully, we don't do such a huge volume in Bitcoin business that it really, that fluctuations are really going to affect our business. I mean, maybe if the volatility gets so crazy, and we do a lot of volume in the future, maybe that might be an issue, but for right now, it's like any startup business or startup concept. So for us, we're willing to accept the volatility ride that we take, so to say. And we haven't really seen much of a fluctuation on it. Sometimes, so far, we've changed Bitcoins maybe once, and maybe the difference was very insignificant. So, you know, maybe it's something I think as Bitcoin grows, maybe the value of Bitcoins will eventually kind of, they won't be so volatile compared to where they are right now. And have you noticed that in its volatility, I always say yes, it goes up and down, up and down like this. Because even if you buy high and sell low, you're still, it's still doubling in value in the end. Exactly. The, you know, and even with this disaster of what has happened with Mt. Gox and now my Bitcoin, still, I think I read, correct me if I'm wrong in the chat room, but if I'm not mistaken, Bitcoin was about $17, $17.50 right before the flash crash on Mt. Gox. And then after this disaster, like today, it's something like $15. So when from $17 to $15, which actually when you think about it, that is surprising how little impact it had on the value of Bitcoin. That's right. The people who are into Bitcoin understand, it's not the Bitcoin network that was hacked, it's one exchange site. And that is a really, really important point that, you know, well, maybe two, maybe it's Mt. Gox and my Bitcoin, it's all, it kind of, there's a ripple effect of hacking into sites. But the Bitcoin network and your own offline storage of Bitcoin, if you have it in your own computer or on Bitbills or whatever form you have, is so far absolutely secure and still unhackable. That's right. So that's an important thing. And the value over time, I mean, if you don't need to sell them, like within 24 hours, there could be a little bit less value because it goes up and down moment to moment. But if you're holding on to them and you're only cashing them in once a week or once a month, you're probably going to end up with a lot more value than you started with. So that's a beneficial thing. That doesn't happen with dollars. You don't end up with more dollars at the end of the month, because then you took in. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. The interest usually is less than the inflation erosion of the value. Tell me about it. So is there anything you want to tell the world about being... First of all, do you realize the historic moment, the historic time we're in right now, as to our knowledge, correct us if we're wrong, the first brick-and-mortar restaurant in the world, in Manhattan for sure, but in the world that accepts Bitcoin at the cash register. I mean, over the past few days, it's really really... Actually, over the past few weeks, it's really come to light. At first, when we started getting into it, it really didn't occur to me how much of a movement and how large of an idea this was. And the more and more that I've learned about it, the more I think it's just an exceptional concept. And if it develops the way that it should, I think it could be truly revolutionary in the way people transact business. In a sense that, like I say, it's great, it's an upside for merchants. In a sense that there's no fees between the customer and the merchant, it's great for customers because they don't have to worry about carrying cash. It's a very easy process. I mean, I think people find that great. And the one thing I would say is that, hopefully, this would give a wake-up call or some competition to credit card companies. Because right now, credit card companies are basically... One guy raises his fees and everybody else goes up with them. And nobody complains. It's the bank. I mean, credit card companies, they are the banks. They are the banks. It's the world bankers that are in charge of our money and our debt and money has debt and all that. Exactly. And honestly, it's a little overbearing to see. For every time you swipe a card, it's a 10 cent fee. And then you have interchange fees. And then if you have an American Express, you have to wait three full business days to get your money. At some point, somebody's got to provide some competition to that to make an electronic transaction seamless and easy for customers. And that's one thing I think Bitcoin could just be revolutionary in. So hopefully, we'll start seeing some more business on it and we'll see how it goes. So, Ellie in the chat room says she just bought some shares of MeziGrow. I don't know. Maybe she intends to. You'll be hearing from her later. Wonderful. So do you remember how much a Bitcoin was when you first learned the value of a Bitcoin? I think it was in the sense. I think it wasn't like five cents or something. Five or maybe even more or less somewhere around there. Now it's like 15 bucks. Yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible. Too bad you weren't taking Bitcoin earlier and don't sell them. Yeah. No, we've held on to all of them. I mean, I've exchanged maybe once, but just to see how the process goes. But since then, we've held on to all of them. It's been like I said, it's been a great process. We've really, really enjoyed it. So. I don't give financial advice. Sell them all you want. You can do anything you want. But anyway, wouldn't it have been cool if you had had lots of Bitcoin then and not sold? Would it could have. Exactly. So history in the making, the first restaurant that is accepting Bitcoin. How much time are we in it? 20 minutes left. Okay, good. So I want to transition over here to our guys, our team from tradehill.com. We're joining us via Skype. We have, let's see, that's Francisco Dagnino, if I said it right on the left, and Jared Kenna in the middle, and Adam Stradling on the right. Hey, guys, thanks for taking the time to join us. I know you've got a lot going on with Mt. Gox down. You're the, you are Bitcoin Exchange online, right? It's correct. So we want to talk, I wanted to hear what you guys have to say about the financial aspects of Bitcoin the exchange sites, and what's happening in that arena right now. I think we should let Adam talk about that. He's got the background on this thing. He can tell us a little bit about what he does. Can you hear him well, Adam? I mean, the big thing that comes to mind with a lot of these security breaches, and the challenges facing kind of a brand-mended market right now is that if you look on the institutional level, which is one of the items that I have consulting on now with one of my other clients, I also have consulting companies I started with this. There's standardization at the exchanges and there's standardization in clearing and settlement. And it's typically organized by all the banking participants, mostly their chief risk officers who come together and create a risk committee. And then they set all the exchange policies. Of course, they set marginal requirements, collateral requirements, things like that. The exchange community for Bitcoin at this point hasn't kind of evolved into margining those other items. But they also set policies for such things as circuit breakers. So as you know, there could have been an indication in what happened in Mt. Fox situation that there was a market manipulation going on. And if somebody had a circuit breaker in place when it was monitoring that, they could have basically frozen everything. And it probably would have been much easier to basically stop what was happening and then also prevent further damage. The NYSE and other exchanges have similar, very similar rules set in place. So we had actually proposed between quite a few different people in exchanges to talk about this and think about if there's some standard rules that we should have that we operate by and implement those and have it be kind of a community-based committee. Let me ask you, I'm sorry to interrupt. Let me ask you to grab that microphone and hold it right up to your mouth because a lot of people can't hear you. Can't hear you very well. Grab the mic and put it right up to your mouth if you can. Is that, yeah, or are you on the laptop? Maybe you can speak into it, yeah. So we can hear you. So you're, and of course, when you're talking about a circuit breaker, you're talking about an automated system so that if someone, like, I read an article in one of the MSNBC blog or something like that this morning. It was, I'm going to talk, we're probably not going to have time to get to it today, but tomorrow I'm going to talk about some of the news coverage that has been, you know, it's not so much pro and con Bitcoin. It's more like accurate and absolutely false. A lot of things, somebody said that they, this one article suggested that because of the hack into the site, you know, there was a panic sell that brought the price down to a penny. And obviously that's not what happened. What happened is somebody hacked into an account and then they sold all of the entire Bitcoins for a penny. And that's a completely different story. That's what brought the value down to a penny. So what you're talking about is an automated thing so that when the price is 1750 and somebody sells, you know, eight, 10 million dollars worth of Bitcoins at a penny, that would immediately block that sale? Yeah, I mean, I think it could be manual too. And automated. But that would be the idea is, you know, logically, why would somebody come in and dump that much on the market and then also burn through all the bits at that rate? So that's something that's not, you know, happening that should be happening in the market. And you could have a manual or you could have it, you know, automated in terms of then shutting everything down and basically kind of hitting a panic button or a circuit breaker. Right. And I mean, nobody who's running an exchange can actually watch it personally every millisecond, 24 hours a day. Mt. Gox's, you know, Mark and Adam are in Tokyo, which is completely the opposite, you know, time as us. And you guys are in Chile, but, you know, you can't manually watch it 24 hours a day personally. And even if you could, this stuff can happen in seconds. So you're talking about an automated thing and you mean standardized among a number of exchange sites so they all use the same formula because that could be a problem too if one uses a different formula than another. What would be the result? A lot of people, what are acceptable security measures because we do have a different, you know, kind of user coming in to Bitcoin. We've seen it through all the requests that we've had and it's been people who just hadn't really used it before. So, you know, it could be an opportunity to really take responsibility and show people, you know, that these places, that these are safe places to transact business. And so, you know, security measures, things like that could be, if you want to make an exchange or be a reputable exchange, you know, meet some criteria set by the community. And this is obviously kind of farther out, you know, there's immediate things, but those are just some of the ideas and from my experience on how exchanges, institutional level exchanges are running organized, those are the types of things that they have in place. Right. And this is obviously, you're just, it's a matter of you seeing the need. When, especially when there's a terrible car accident, you see the need for the traffic light, so you've seen what's happening. You just learned about another disaster at my Bitcoin, which is, I shouldn't be laughing at it, it's really tragic. It's a result of the thing that happened at Mt. Gox and so on. But this is a definite need in the industry and this new industry that is about exchanges and to have standards for security and auditing and circuit breakers, what other things could be covered by that? Right now, obviously, yeah, I think those are the main ones. A lot of the other exchanges have rules on types of lateral, margin requirements, you know, international transaction and registering and becoming a registered participant of those exchanges. So, you know, I don't think those necessary apply right now, but if margining does occur in the future, then there should be probably some requirement, there would be some practice requirements on margin. We manually approve large withdrawals. So, for example, if something does go wrong and they get away with 90,000 Bitcoins, we have to manually approve it. And we're going to look at it and we're going to see why is this person pulling out 90,000 Bitcoins? How did they get these Bitcoins? So we, if it's 20 Bitcoins, we're not too concerned, but if it's a large amount, we backtrack, we verify every transaction mixture, it's large. So if someone does get a hold of that money, illegitimately, they're not going to be able to pull it out. It's going to stay in the system. And that goes for all the currencies and Bitcoins. Okay. As we have more people who are joining us, and we actually want to monitor 24-7 as of right now, but we're trying to set that up. So, and that's just basically processing our client's safety right now until basically we can automate kind of circuit breakers, you know, at this point. Okay. Yeah, Mark, why don't you got a question? Do you mind if I ask you guys a question? I understand what you're saying about taking and being able to prevent like large transactions like a 90,000 Bitcoin exchange or something. What about somebody who's trying to do like multiple exchanges for the same amount? Like let's say somebody's trying to do 100 Bitcoins, the same users going over and over and over again. Would you have something in place to kind of stop that or prevent that from happening as well? Yeah. Yes, withdrawals, that's what I meant. I'm sorry. Okay. So, we would notice 50 Bitcoins, 50 Bitcoins, 50 Bitcoins we would not. Okay. The other thing is it's tied to the Bitcoin price and the dollar. So, there's a lot of speculation at God's that they tried to bomb the price and then pull out 100,000 Bitcoins that were working to stop being a exchange rate. So, we have measures in place to make sure that they don't manipulate the market and then try to get around it that way as well. Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. Maybe, yeah, I mean if they are going to have withdrawal limit of a thousand. If someone will come and say to us, hey, this is a good customer, they're taking a lot of coins, and so we'll want somebody now. Yeah. Hey, we're busy, we're really busy. And I bet I know we have the same thing here. If you'll just walk in right into the studio. The other day we had somebody trying to open this door right here on the set. I mean trying to get the door open. So, yeah, we had somebody trying to rob. She's pretty suspicious stuff and we contacted them and it turned out to be better. Wow, interesting. And I'm like kind of handling client relations and sales and I usually just try to, hey, what's going on? Oh yeah, you know, if you're moving $50,000, we want to know about it too. Yeah. I want to talk about this good relationship so it works, it works good on that too. Yeah, you can kill two birds with one stone. That's great. That's cool. Yeah, so I mean like, do you do that like, like automatically if it's over a certain amount? That you're going to get, you're going to get flagged before they, they can actually withdraw it or after they withdraw it? That works, but yeah, if there's an amount and a system that you set up that's worked flawlessly so far. Basically, if it's more than $15, you're going to, you're going to get. But it's a little bigger than $15. Oh, okay. You're going to get a call. Like, uh, like the. We don't, we don't necessarily, but we don't want to sacrifice security to you. Yeah, like it is, just like a credit card company saying, I noticed that you charged lunch in New York and dinner in the Czech Republic. You know, are you sure it's you? That's, that's a good thing. So, um, do you see, when, how does, how do you see this all playing out? Do you think that there are going to be a lot of exchange sites or is it always going to be just a couple? Right. But there's new market, particularly that, um, it is tough to say. I mean, at this point, we're really just trying to, we, I mean, we have four partners. We're on this full time and then we have staff too. So we're just really hand, you know, hammering it out to make sure that everybody's requested to answer it and that we, we kind of just keep doing our best job to, you know, to make sure something's done. So, yeah, I think that's good to, to any sort of rejection on a big point for more than a week. I mean, we're positive. And about what happened on Sunday, I think that though it did hurt the economy somewhat, I think in the long run, it's going to be a good thing. It's going to show people that Bitcoin is a serious business. It's not a speculative toy anymore. Right. So, uh, and that's also going to demand a lot from us, from all the exchanges. So, um, we're, well, we're actually trying to organize a, you know, a meetup with the big minors and the exchanges. We try and come up with some sort of set of rules that we can all agree on. So, as to provide some sort of help in certifying ourselves through security and financial aids to give our customers a bit more confidence in the sense that this is a serious thing. We're not fraud by any gentle far from it. So, I think that's going to be the best outcome out of this. Okay. Let me, this sounds like a really good time to take a quick break and we have to thank our sponsors and these are blatant promotions to all of our guests today happen to be sponsors. So, not all of our sponsors are guests today, but the other way around. But, um, we want to thank you guys, all of you guys, because, um, you guys make this possible. And the community really, really appreciates what we're doing here trying to get the news out about, about the Bitcoin world. And we're here every day, Monday through Friday, 2 p.m. Eastern time in the Bitcoin show. And then also the Spanish language version, which is El Show to Bitcoin Wednesdays every week. Wednesdays at 4 p.m. And, uh, so first we want to thank BitcoinBonus.com. BitcoinBonus.com is a very cool site. If you haven't checked it out, I got a whole bunch of people telling me about it before they even became a sponsor. Then later they contacted me and said they want to become a sponsor. When you shop online, no matter what it is you buy, all the big .coms are on there, big and small. You've got to remember right before you click buy, go, go over to BitcoinBonus and see if they're there. Click on their link and you'll get Bitcoins back. I had a guy who was, uh, said that he was some sort of a website developer and he has his clients set up hosting accounts. So he sets up two or three hosting accounts every week. And every time he set up a hosting account for a customer, he got 50 Bitcoin. And it's like, oh my gosh, he's making more money off BitcoinBonus than he has off of his consulting services. So check out BitcoinBonus.com for everything that you buy online and get kickbacks in Bitcoin. It's brilliant. And also, of course, tradehill.com. Tradehill is the way to buy Bitcoin online, to buy and sell Bitcoin for currency, multiple currencies, easy ways to get it in and out. They're adding more all the time. They're ramping up to this explosive demand that's hitting them. I think they're kind of blindsided by it. And then I'm not blindsided, but they're like probably in shock, a little bit overwhelmed. But they're handling it with grace and style and professionalism. These guys know what they're doing and it was a surprise that what's happened at Mt. Gox and now suddenly all attention is on Tradehill. So this has happened overnight in explosive growth. But they're handling it. They're handling it well. And again, you'll get 10% off your trades for life at Tradehill. If you just use only one TV, the Bitcoin chose referral code, which is TH-R141. Write that down. It's on your screen. TH as in Tradehill-R as in referral 141. Don't forget 10% off for life. And the rates are lower than Mt. Gox anyway with that referral code. Then we also want to thank Mezzy Grill. Marwan Salem is our guest today. And Mezzy Grill is authentic Mediterranean food. What's the rest of that? Where authentic Mediterranean food meets modern flavor. See, okay. I don't feel so bad. Yeah. There you go. It's a long tagline. But it's great. It's absolutely true. Fantastic, fantastic food. Thank you. So Mezzy Grill is M-E-Z-E grill.com. And it's on 8th Avenue. 8th Avenue between 55th and 56th Street. 55 and 56th on 8th Avenue. Just a couple blocks from Columbus Circle. So if you're visiting New York or live here, just go to Columbus Circle and couple blocks south and find Mezzy Grill. It's worth it. It's absolutely worth it. The venture and very affordable, very delicious and very healthy. And US Gold Coins. USGoldCoins.com. That's our buddy Andy Gauss who you're going to be meeting very, very soon. We're going to get him on as a guest. And he's actually going to take his show. He has a national radio show twice a week called The Real World of Money with Andy Gauss. If you haven't heard of him, check him out. He's brilliant, monetary historian, economist, brilliant, brilliant guy. And he owns this company called USGoldCoins.com. And they sell numismatic gold and silver coins as investments. So if you want to diversify and not keep it all in Bitcoin, have a little bit of rare gold and silver coins. He's the man and he's absolutely, I can vouch for his honesty and integrity. And if you ever need to find yourself in a bind and you need to sell your gold and silver back to him, he will buy it back. He's a very, very honest guy. Unlike a lot of the gold dealers that you'll find. So we thank USGoldCoins.com and Andy Gauss. So back to all this. What do you guys see happening in the real short-term future? Is there anything really exciting that you see that's going to rock the Bitcoin world in the next coming weeks or months? I don't think anything is not exciting. And I think everything is short-term in the future. I want to disagree with these guys. You said two or three months. You said three or three weeks. I think two or three hours is as far as I was going to say. It's too fast. It's intense. The speed of Bitcoin is ridiculous. The speed. I call it internet speed. Yep. It's happening so fast. There's no time to sleep or eat. What is that, right? Fortunately. We know that. We've been up three, you know, two or three, four a.m. You know, five to sleep, five or six hours. We have people coming in in the morning too. But one of the interesting things that we're thinking is what happens when Gauss opens up. And what do people do? That's one. And two, we're seeing a completely new client base coming in. And it really requires education from the ground up. And we're actually spending the time to walk people through the steps of how you even just made a Bitcoin transfer for the first time. And they're coming to us to do this or to send international wires in some of these other items. And we're spending the time to basically walk through that. But those are the two things that I see happening right now that are interesting. We also had an interview with Ottawa Citizen yesterday and also Warriors. So media, different media outlets are picking this up more intently. Not as well as you do. But yeah, we actually referred, we're adding some, you said over your contact information, Bruce, to talk to you, unique information. Cool. Also, we recommend them speaking with Java too or stuff. I don't speak Spanish though. I hope they can understand me. This was Ottawa Citizen. Oh, Ottawa Citizen. I thought this was the Chilean news. Ottawa. Oh, you're the one who sent them. Yeah, they called me. Yes, I already did that interview. Yeah. I was like, Ottawa. Okay, whatever. That's cool. That's the capital of Canada. We know that. Yeah. So I suppose we should do a little more clear on that. Okay. Sorry, I was going to say, you guys said you talked to somebody from Reuters yesterday? Yeah, Fred Cardiama. Fred Cardiama. He interviewed me yesterday. He's a full-time technologist, Reuters and CNN in terms of business technology. Yeah, he interviewed me in my restaurant yesterday. They filmed. They staged it. Yeah, so Small World. Yeah. He was focusing on how business owners were using big things right now. So that's a really interesting topic because you guys being the exchange and you guys being the retailers, merchants, that's something that a lot of people say. I'm not sure if I believe it completely, but a lot of people say that Bitcoin is not going to really reach mainstream until it's absolutely accepted at many, many mainstream places. So there's some truth to that, of course. So I mean, what do you guys see is going to be necessary for Bitcoin to be accepted just everywhere? And also I want to preface that by saying the bitcoinme.com site, which I set up, you know, it's kind of Bitcoin for newbies thing. And there's an accept tab. And what I did is I put instructions there, like super, super oversimplified way, how any merchant can be set up to accept Bitcoin within moments. And that's what Marwan has done. And you actually, you took that artwork and the QR code and you put it into what, Photoshop? I put it into Adobe Illustrator. Adobe Illustrator. Yeah. And then I just kind of put the Bitcoin logo right there along with ours just so people knew that that was our unique code. Very easy. And then you just, what, did you laminate it? Or just slash it? Yeah, I actually took it to Kinko's right in my neighborhood. And that, you know, you can do the lamination yourself. They give you the plastic and you just run it through the machine. And it's very simple. That is, it's so simple. Very easy. So if you're any kind of a merchant, any kind of brick and mortar shop, just go to bitcoinme.com, click on accept tab, and look at the artwork that's there. And you guys, yeah, just put it into Adobe Illustrator, do it yourself, go to Kinko's, laminate it. Boom, you're taking Bitcoin tomorrow and routers will be filming in your store. Who knows, you won't be the first one, but you could be the second one. Exactly. So what do you, and I know that there's, there's, there are cash register companies that are jumping on the technology. People tell me a lot of things that I'm not allowed to repeat, but I know there's a lot of point of sale stuff coming. Do you, does Trade Hill want to get involved in merchant services at all? For sure. The thing is we've got about a thousand things we want to do. And actually, we just came up with an idea that I think it's going to change versus services to Bitcoin forever. And I don't want to tell you what it is right now, because it's not super complicated, and someone will copy us, and we want to just come out of nowhere and just drop this and just run with it. But I think it's going to change forever. And unfortunately, if we have one restaurant doing it, we might have to wait a little bit. But when, even with our exchange fees and everything else, it's going to be cheaper than using a V-set. It's going to be cheaper than using Paypal. It's going to be cheaper than any of that stuff. So I think, I think the big thing for merchants is if they can get their dollars quickly, they might not, you know, trust in Bitcoin and have long-term expectations. But if they can accept Bitcoin and then quickly get dollars from it, it eliminates that risk and they don't have to really trust in the Bitcoin. They have to trust in it for a few minutes, which is a lot easier than trusting in it long-term. Right. And businesses, I mean, just for the audience that may not understand, if you're not running a brick-and-mortar business, you may not understand this, but we've had talks about it. And if you think it through, it's kind of obvious. If you are running a business, you have a food order. You got to put an order in for your produce and for your meats and all these things and payroll and everything else. So you've got a constant cash flow issue. And unfortunately, not everybody accepts Bitcoin yet. So right now, you take Bitcoin in and you need dollars right away so that you can pay to keep your cash flow going. So that's why it's not that it's not worth holding on to them. Of course it is. But if a business needs cash flow and they can't just funnel all that cash off to Bitcoin, I mean, unless they're really cash rich. Well, unless you can find vendors who start accepting Bitcoin and then you can just start paying them directly doing that. There you go. You hear that, vendors? If you're selling stuff to business to business, to retailers, start accepting Bitcoin and then like Mezi Grill and all these businesses that accept Bitcoin will just purchase directly through Bitcoin. And I think there's an upside for merchants too, or for other businesses like for wholesalers that do business to us. We pay a lot of businesses using my debit card sometimes and they will call. They have to pay a debit card fee and sometimes it's $1,000, $2,000. That merchant's paying the bill on that. So imagine they could come and just say they're taking Bitcoin instead. I'm sure they would love it. Are bankers like the mob? They get a cut of everything. Everything. They get the little cut of everything at every level of everything. Well, I didn't say that. That was a question. You could say anything as long as there's a question mark on the end. Probably a dimension that a lot of people haven't thought about is that we live in, I mean, the Chile is considered the most credible nation in South America that has very stable economy and has a high step rating, things like that. But it's still kind of an emerging economy and computers are still kind of the internet is still growing here. The population base is growing and Bitcoin will be an unbelievable way for a small number of people who really can't get credit or get online payment methods to open up that entire market. That's so true. And because their current credit structure is built around a different dynamic and as long as they have a computer now and in exchange, they can actually start doing stuff online. Where they couldn't do it before. And we see that firsthand just as we've seen in here. I think that's a huge thing. But it's not just Chile. It's sorry to talk on top of me. Go ahead. Oh, okay. I was going to say it's not just Chile. It's absolutely global. So this is true of everybody in every country whether whatever the deal is, if they don't have... Yeah. I mean, the fact that you need credit to do banking is just so wrong. Basically, it's cash is cash and it's cash like. So you don't need credit and you can even be in an emerging a third world economy where it's a charity or whatever it is. They don't need to be approved by a bank. You can just click a button. As easy as setting up a new Gmail account, even easier, you can get set up to accept Bitcoin and now you receive Bitcoin for whatever the product or service it is that you're providing. Even if it's micro tasks and you live in Kenya, you can actually get paid in Bitcoin and it's a universal currency that you can travel anywhere to any country and actually use. Imagine what it would be for the tourism industry too. You're a tourist from Australia, you're walking around South America, you're in the middle of the jungle, you actually have a cell phone signal, but there's no ATM in, I don't know, 50 kilometers around, but you can go to the local business and actually pay with your Bitcoin because you have your phone. Wow, there you go. Now see there. You just came up with an idea. I hope this isn't your idea. What about a... Before they left Australia and then come here and, you know, change it in and, I mean, if we have a local bank account, we can get the money out of it. Oh, yeah, exactly. The idea of exchanging currencies when you travel, isn't that so yesteryear? It's just so ridiculous. But you have to have a currency that everybody knows what a Bitcoin is worth. It doesn't matter if you're in Sweden or Australia or Japan or New York or wherever. The fact that everybody knows about Bitcoin, everybody, you know, I mean US dollars kind of like that, but it's not because it's not accepted everywhere. But if Bitcoin becomes that, ubiquitous, that it's absolutely everywhere, it's just brilliant. Someone's asking in the chat room, by the way, you guys, does this trade real run on a dedicated server and how much of the balance is kept offline for security? Can you talk about that? The bulk of it is stored separately, the wallet. We're going to basically break down the entire process probably in a couple of days, explain it a lot better, and I think everyone's going to be really impressed. We've actually brought in a couple of pretty high-profile security professionals and we'll give their bios and everything else. I think everyone will be really impressed. It's pretty insane what they're doing in order to keep this secure because it's just the risk, it's just ridiculous. Yeah, we basically reached out to these people. We speak with a few people today. We actually haven't kind of confirmed that they already worked with us. They said they wanted to. They showed us kind of what they proposed and we actually just sent them some email recently saying, we actually would want you to kind of partner with us and kind of really take a little while to warrant on this. And they're really well-known people who are involved with security. I think you'll see that there are very credentials that they want to do this, but because we love it and we love to have them be a part of this. And they've done the security for a lot of major banks, at least one of these individuals has. And I honestly believe when you see our new security plan, you will agree that it's stronger than the banks and it needs to be because I honestly believe we have more risk than the banks. Right, yeah, that's true. I think so because it's global. I mean, even Citibank was hacked in recent weeks. We read about that. So, yeah, I mean, it's like- And in that, no matter where you're putting money, there is this risk of major and INF just hacked all these other things. So, and we do say that Bitcoin is kind of, it's pleasantly and it's growing and it's a new business. So, you know, we're saying to people, you know, don't let that happen. You know, try it out. See how it works? You get familiar with it. Educate yourself. And then, and then get into it. So, you know, we're putting this together that this is kind of an experiment because we are responsible for people's wealth in some way and well, definitely. And we don't want to, you know, kind of mislead people or get them to be hyped up about something that is, I mean, we believe in it. We think it's going to work. But, you know, there's a lot of big questions. And it is an experiment. And right now it looks like it has all this functionality. Every piece of talk about it does a lot of great things. So, you know, it's a responsibility too, you know. And just like everything else is financed, diversified. Don't put all your money into Bitcoin. Don't put all your gold. Sure as hell, don't put all your gold. You know, don't put all your money into exchange, too. Yeah, exactly. You know, don't put all your money into exchange, too. But I think we're going to make it clear, really clear for you. We're almost out of time. If you're getting spam and emails that are giving you a profile code that is not us, we're actually really pissed about that. And we are banning and removing our profile codes when people are doing that right and left. Honestly, I haven't heard anybody complain in the last three days about spamming. Because people are seeing that if you spam it, you take it away. So, it's that clear. Good. Because we look into it. We make sure that you really are spamming it and then we strip the profile code. You can set a sample. We definitely will put it on. You can still on information or anything. And you know, and obviously, people look at it and say it helps us a lot. And the truth is, yeah, people got all this information, but we've taken those profile codes out. And we're not, you know, we don't. That's not in our body system. So, that's good. So, get that on and make that clear. I'm going to repeat it in case you didn't hear it. Spam a trade hill referral code and they will ban that referral code. So, don't do it. Don't spam it. Only give it to your friends and people you know. That's cool. So, you know, the thing about security is, you know, I always say, you know, experts are easy to come by, but real experts are very, very hard to come by. If I know one little tidbit more than you, then I'm the consultant, you've got to pay me. But you know, when it comes to security, it really has to be the experts, experts, experts. How do you verify how, you know, the credentials or the real knowledge of these security experts? And do you get, are you going to want to get two, three opinions that are completely independent? And are you going to release your database to somebody for an audit? So, we let him handle those decisions. But I also like to emphasize, it's not cheap. A really good auditing firm in this might start $2,000 an hour. Yeah. And they need a few hours. So, it's ridiculously expensive to have an audit. That was going to say that, you know, I know that this is another unique, really weird phenomenon of this all happening in internet speed. Bitcoin is brand new. It's a brand new technology. These are new, the idea of an exchange site is a brand new industry really. And, you know, being a startup in any kind of a business, you're a startup and, you know, you've only have so much capital and all that. And then all of a sudden, you're supposed to have world-class security that beats Citibank's security. Exactly. And three months ago, we started putting this together, but we didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't anticipate a lot of what's happened. So, we're just basically doing our best to try and come up with solutions. And we are qualified credentials people need. And our credentials are online. Francisco worked at one of the largest banks in all of the United States and helped and worked behind it, worked in individual data, very sensitive high note, worked in the individual data on a daily basis. I work with some of the largest hedge funds in the world. I work with one of the biggest private corporations in the world right now to set up an exchange that's going to be $15 trillion in notional value per year. I got to do more work for them because it's been taking a lot of time. And, you know, our senior program, you know, put rockets in the space. So, you know, we feel like we're credential enough to give this a really good, a really good, you know, to deliver, you know, on our promises. And we're just going to be accurate and forthright on how we're doing it. And, you know, that's our proposition. With regards to service, security and credentials, we think these people are definitely credentials, but more important than that, we feel like they have a good value. And, you know, you could have someone who's really good, but, you know, when it comes to security, if they don't kind of have a solid ethical framework, then, you know, what is it worth, right? Because they can link your information just as easily. So, our sense is that these people have good values, and we like what they say, and we like how they act, and that's what we think is almost more important. And that goes for employees and people we work with, right? The other day, it's all a trust when you're dealing with people. It's like, yeah, yeah. So, I think that some of their advantages that all four of us have known each other for so long. Any other people that we have worked with this are also, we've also known for a long time. So, there's a really close connection between all of us. So, and we're all stakeholders in this too. So, yeah, I mean, security is an enormous issue, and the other issue is trust, like you say. I mean, I don't do business with anybody that I can't trust. If I see someone that, you know, is trying to swindle their way out of, you know, any little thing, I don't care what it is, I will never, ever, ever do business with them, even if they want to pay me. So, that trust is really, really important. It looks like we're out of time, but as always, we could talk for hours and hours on end, but this is a bit coin time, internet speed, everything's happening. So, I want to thank you guys. I want to thank Marwan for taking the time out of your busy lunch rush. I know they get to make special arrangements to get out of the kitchen and come and join us. It's a pleasure. And thank you guys, trade hill guys, you know, Jared, Adam, Francisco, for taking time out of your busy day. You must be swamped with everything that's happening, but we really appreciate you coming online. Take a nap, sleep for an hour, power nap, get back to it. Nice talking to you guys. All right, cheers. Thank you so much everybody for joining us. And tomorrow, 2 p.m., watch us live and join us at the Bitcoin Show. Take care.