 Welcome to NewsClick. Today we have with us Swadhisheesha Dreetu to talk about her recently released report titled Amarna Dyatra, Militarized Pilgrimage. So the report jointly researched and published by Jammu and Kashmir Coalitions of Civil Society and Equations Bangalore. Welcome to NewsClick once again. So can you briefly explain the major highlights of the report? So the report studies different aspects of the Amarna Dyatra. We start the report with early looking at the history of the report, I mean of the Dyatra. How did it come into being the way it is today? And there are two three aspects that we've looked at. One is when did state patronage start in the Dyatra? The second is looking at the duration of the Dyatra because that has been a contentious issue over the years. And the third aspect has been about the number of Yatris who come on the Dyatra because this is at a very high altitude. The cave is located at 13,500 feet. So the number of Yatris also has certain implications. So we've looked at these three aspects and we've seen how is each of these determined, who determines, you know, how long the Dyatra will be or how many people will come and whose opinions are taken into consideration and whose opinions are not taken into consideration. So that is one area of inquiry that we go into. The second area of inquiry is also then to look at the Yatris themselves. Because the Yatris, because it is a high altitude, Yatra and a lot of the Yatris are coming from the plains. So they're not used to the kind of weather that exists, you know, at such high altitudes. Often they're not prepared, either in terms of just the equipment required or even in terms of their own health. And it does result in a lot of deaths of Yatris or extremely serious illnesses that, you know, they go back. So also trying to understand how can the Yatra be a better experience for the Yatris, because right now a lot of deaths actually happen every year during Dyatra. The third aspect that we've looked at is to see this different state actors and what role do they all of them play, starting with the most important being the Shri Amarnaji Shrine Board, which was constituted in 2001. And what has been the changing role of the state in the Yatra before the Shrine Board was formed? What was the state, when the state administration was running the Yatra? And after the Shrine Board, you know, how have changes taken place? Whose interests are served? Whose interests are not served? Those are some areas of inquiry that we do. Then of course we look at the district administration and the Indian armed forces, how they are, you know, playing a role in the Yatra and what kind of, you know, either tensions or conflicts are, you know, coming to fore. That's the next area of inquiry. I've not given the highlights. I'll get to that eventually. You want me to weave it in? Okay. So then we've also looked at who are all the other service providers. So you see that there are tent owners, horse owners, load bearers, then the Palki Walas and these are the from the unorganized sector. And finally you have the Langer Organizations and the helicopter tour companies, all of them. We then explore the environmental aspect of the Yatra itself in terms of what are the implications on the environment. And then we look at, you know, what are the kind of conflicts because this is a contentious Yatra. So we look at what are the kind of conflicts that have happened, the seem most serious ones over the years and finally looking at what are the different emerging Yatras in Kashmir. Because as we went along, we realized that the Yatra itself is a tool for the Indian state to further occupy Kashmir. So we've also explored all these other emerging Yatras. So this is just a summary of what has, you know, happened over here. In terms of the findings, I think a very critical finding has been that the environmental aspects are there. You know, there is a lot of sanitation, there is a lot of sewage, there is a lot of solid waste that's generated. Some studies say that 55,000 per day, 55,000 kgs per day, you know, of solid waste is generated during the Yatra. There are other statistics which say that of the annual solid waste generation, 83 percent, you know, in that region of the Pelgam region, 83 percent is generated during three months from June, July and August. You know, it's just Yatra and preceding the Yatra and the forces also move in large numbers into the Yatra route. So there are these statistics. It's also there for everyone to see, I think, images of the Yatra camps, even in the upper reaches, will very obviously give you a story, you know, of this. But the more important finding of our study was also the collusion of the state and the social religious organizations, you know, or the sangh related, you know, the sangh organizations. Because what we are seeing is more and more a politicization of the Yatra itself. And then a question that comes to mind is that is this what the devotees would want? Is this what the devotees would want that their religion be instrumentalized and used as a weapon for the Indian state, you know, to shoot at the people of Kashmir? So this is something that we are extremely, you know, concerned about. And secondly, for the non-devotees also, I mean, maybe even if the other people who are reading the report, is this the kind of watering down or diluting of the constitution that we as Indians will want? You know, where we are willing to have, you know, provisions in the constitution violated willfully knowingly, and, you know, to promote this Yatra. A lot of, I mean, the customary rights of people who have inhabited the Yatra route, they have been, you know, affected. The earlier custodians of the Yatra, they have been bumped off, and the shrine board has come in. So a lot of, you know, a lot of the constitution has been violated. And even for the secular reader of this, even if they are not devotees, there is something that one has to think of is how are we upholding the constitution if this is what we are doing, you know, to the people of Kashmir through a religious pilgrimage like the Amarnath Yatra. So these are some of the broad big-ticket, you know, takeaways that we've had from this research. So as you have mentioned, these Yatra structures have a uniqueness in its implementation. So how the Sangh forces or these kind of extremist forces are penetrating into the structure, that organizing structure. So can you explain that one? The Shri Amarnaji shrine board's genesis is in the Vaishnav Devi shrine board, you know, which was started, which was set up in 1986 by Jagmohan, the then governor, Jagmohan, who also intended to at the same time have a shrine board for Amarnath as well. But, you know, the emergency was declared in Kashmir and that didn't happen. Even when he was constituting the Vaishnav Devi shrine board, he in fact in his book, you know, which he has written about this says that the state has to be kept out, you know, and the governor has to be brought in as an ex-officer, chairman or chairperson of the board and the state has to be kept out and how it has to be done. You know, so he details this out. So, thus the state being kept out is a strategy. It is, it is not, it just didn't, it didn't just happen, right. And it was envisaged way back in 1986 for both Vaishnav Devi and Amarnath Yatra, where the state administration will have no decision making pass, but can only bring in whatever requirements are there in terms of water, electricity, etc. So, this is the first step where we are seeing that there is a concerted effort to keep any kind of elected representatives outside the structure of the Yatra. That's, that's number one. Number two is that when this board in Amarnath was finally formed, it was formed in response to a catastrophe that happened in 1996, when several hundred Jyatris died because of, of, of avalanche and storms, you know, on the, on the Yatra route. Now, even then the, the recommendation from the Nitesh San Gupta committee was that either a special Yatra cell be formed, you know, under the department, the department of tourism basically be given the responsibility of the Yatra. And there were two, three recommendations of how this could be done, a special Yatra cell within the home ministry supporting, you know, the department of tourism. Two, three, you know, methods had been suggested. But finally, what was set up in 2001 was the shine board. So, that itself is a question, you know, to be asked because if they say that it came out of the Nitesh San Gupta committee report, then that was not what was, you know, suggested. So, there was a wider scheme, you know, operating over here when it came to the Yatra. So, it is not just the song accessing the structure. The question is, why is this structure, the, the structure that is formed? Then the next question is, how does the song access it specially? The first point is that in other board in India, apart from Amarnath and Inveshno Devi, is the governor, the ex-officio chairman. In other places is the district commissioner. It's the DC who is the ex-officio chairman. So, why is it the governor over here? That is the first, you know, question to be asked. And because then the kind of power that is reposed in the governor versus the DC is, you know, so different. So, that is the first, you know. So, you're giving the board absolute powers over and above the powers that are there with the state administration. Now, with a board which is so powerful, you have certain groups who can access and certain groups who can't access. Of the groups who are able to access are the song organizations who have, I mean, it appears based on our, you know, research who have very direct access to the shine board and who are able to put a lot of pressure on the shine board. For example, we have in Jammu the Baba Yathri Niyaz, the Buddha, Baba Amarnath, Buddha Amarnath Yathri Niyaz. Buddha Amarnath is another pilgrimage that is done in Kashmir itself. It's in a border district. Now, this Yathri Niyaz, even when you go to their website, they very categorically say what is their objective. You know, their objective is to further strengthen the Yathra to and also the role that it plays. You know, for example, in the context of Buddha Amarnath, they are saying how in, I think, Pune district where it is situated, how the Hindus were leaving the district and how it was important to bring this Yathra so that it can, you know, again reclaim the land, you know, the area where bringing Hindus in through this, you know, Yathra. Now, they have been very blatant and very open in what their agenda for any Yathra is, whether it's Buddha Amarnath or the Amarnath Yathra. Now, they have a very clear direct access and a very strong example of this is in 2011, when they put a lot of pressure on to the board, you know, to extend the period of the Yathra because for them, the more number of days of the Yathra, the more people from India are, you know, remaining in that region. Finally, the boards have come and they constituted a committee, you know, which was for the express purpose to decide on the number of days of the Yathra in 2012, the committee report came out and they heard the Baba Yathri Nyasa's depositions, the Langer's NGO's depositions, but they did not, I don't know whether they invited or not, but they definitely did not, there was no deposition made by any Kashmiri organization or there was a Jammu Chamber of Commerce represented on the committee that was formed, but the Kashmiri Chamber of Commerce was not represented in this committee. So, right through, you see in the structures of decision making that the Kashmir groups are kept out while the Jammu groups are kept in or that the Sangh or the right wing groups are, you know, having more access to the Shrine Board while, for example, every year the Shrine Board meets the Langer organizations in January and they meet the helicopter companies and they, you know, meet the tour operators, they do all of that, but when are the Kashmiris' voices sought? You know, when is there, you know, aspirations taken on board? For that there is no fixed or planned set of meetings. At best, if it is, it will be with the tour operators of Kashmir, at best, you know, because they need to give the, they have this quota of selling helicopter tickets. So, all tour operators get certain quota. So, for that they might be meeting the tour operators, but they are not meeting the tent association. You know, they are not meeting the horse owners to discuss how will your rate for the, you know, for the different stages of the Yatra be fixed. So, it's very clear that they have the year, the Shrine Board has the year of the right wing organizations, but you don't see them proactively, you know, asking for organizing meetings with the, you know, the Kashmir-based groups. So, this is very obvious. I mean, if one more example is in 2012, I think there was a committee set up to help the special high-powered committee that was formed by a Supreme Court case which was going on in 2012. And a committee had been formed, you know, in Kashmir to look at the smooth running of the Yatra that year and also to help this committee. In that, there were some Kashmiri, I mean, the Chamber of Commerce Kashmiri people were represented. From newspaper reports, we know that they were removed after a point. And the reason that was given is that they are Muslims, you know, and that's there in the newspaper, I mean, it's reported, you know, as well. So, I mean, but when they're implementing, it's all the Kashmir State Administration which is implementing and which is full of Kashmiris, you know, which is full of Muslims also. So, they're okay with the Muslims giving service, you know, and providing the support, but they don't want them there in the decision making is what it seems to be, you know, emerging right through.