 on the love bug and bed knobs and broomsticks and when they were starting up ILM he came in and looked at Raiders of the Lost Ark scene and he said the guy didn't know how to do the matte painting so he said here's my gift to you I will do this and you can take credit for it so that's that's the matte painting that um who was the guy who did it awesome his name is uh his last name is Maley I know his son Andrew is a friend of mine I can't remember his first name but um I'll look it up that was there was a terrific ending for that film so unexpected yeah that was nice if you don't have if you have access to the mouse if you have Disney Plus there's a show there called um Light and Magic which is a six-part documentary on the making of on how ILM started and became ILM um they were all written and directed by Lawrence Kasdan who's a good friend of Lucas's and it's an amazing I think it is Alan Maley yes it's an amazing um uh documentary really really fun I was just so excited to see how they did all these special effects in these movies cool um I love that here's a um here's a rendering of Jupiter as a sandwich where's the red spot man that's the the red storm is right in here that's pastrami I think it's just it's just beautifully done um a little bit a little bit of wall art cave wall art yeah anyway I was just going through uh nostalgically going through some old images um this is an artist named Hodas who does uh dystopian future landscapes of familiar things often cartoon characters like uh bender um and then my dad painted this it hangs it hangs in the room that I'm in so I put it as my background and then of course by blue blue is better and we are here we are dearly beloved we are collected here for our weekly thursday ritual ogm call um today is a topic call and pete hath thrown down a spiked leather glove one of those strips they stop cars with you know which has buck skin on one side so that it's soft and smooth and then like spikes on the other because all right let's go do something well that's like pete which I really like and appreciate so um I'm thinking pete do you want to riff on it for a moment sure I would love to start there and then we can sort of dig in and I think this will be an interesting journey um so the discussion started I posted this morning on the ogm list and so we've had a couple posts already in the thread um and there's also a website that collects the discussion so far and so if you go to the homepage of that website you'll see my proposal it's the same proposal that got posted to the mailing list I didn't have in mind creating a website for it but it was easy and fun and practical and useful I think so the idea is uh the concept or the conceit kind of is uh we we often we often you know jay says okay this is a topic call what are we going to talk about and we haven't yet gotten good at this discussing the topic before we get to the call so most of the topic calls are let's pick a topic um another thing that we do is we have a number of favorite topics that we talk about but we we have kind of a goldfish memory of them we don't you know we don't have them written down anywhere even though we've talked at length about many of these topics um none of it's written down so we're continually kind of like regenerating the first part of the discussion and I feel like we never get to the middle or you know um expansive parts of the discussion because of them so um I I the metaphor I had my mind was some thick book um I wanted to call it a monograph because it's kind of about one thing but a monograph is usually a single author so it turns out that the the name is actually an edited volume an edited volume has uh like an editor maybe two uh and a bunch of authors who write chapters in it so I was thinking wouldn't it be cool if we had chapters uh for uh climate change chapters you know different chapters climate change uh the rise of artificial intelligence the growing inequality gap the erosion of democracy the war in Ukraine um uh Doug Doug said uh Doug C said that you know great idea love it um wouldn't it be cool if we had scenarios and we could include scenarios in the chapter chapter so for climate change you could have the scenario of hey let's do nothing and see what happens or hey let's have a high tech solution and see what happens or hey let's uh have a an all-in-one kind of everything uh uh scenario and and what would that look like and I think those would be great additions to the chapters um Doug also expressed a little concern uh so you know while I like the idea of topics I worry that we might have have some hidden bias or or we might miss parts of it um and where where might we have uh the the mega topics like governance um and uh improving the earth uh maintaining the earth um so I think those those are are good um uh good chapters as well so I don't think that the chapters have to be at the level of just climate change or just the war in Ukraine maybe there's also mega chapters about governance um uh and then as I've been talking about uh the the idea it's also pretty clear in my my head and carried over from the the idea that the conceit of this is an edited volume um there's a chapter author or chapter authors I would hope um you know somebody maintaining the chapter on soil health and somebody maintaining the chapter on the war in Ukraine um some buddies I would hope uh uh because they're subject matter experts or because they're passionate about the the topic but don't know a lot and want to learn from the subject matter experts um or maybe they're kind of a floater they they like to be part of the author authorial team for a number of chapters and kind of get the the tone and the you know the voice right for the whole the whole website um so chapter authors are kind of the the the main people working on it there might be an editorial board which makes the editorial team editorial board um which kind of is responsible for making sure that we're doing a good job of partitioning topics um and making sure that there's kind of an overall voice um and then there's a publisher um maybe it's gerry um maybe it's ogm um anonymously kind of or or whatever that would be uh collectively um maybe it's gerry and ogm um uh maybe it's somebody else I don't know um so uh the the general idea uh Doug actually also raised another great thing so how would we weave discussion in there and because I I really want us to have a kind of a written record of what we talk about and kind of a catalog of topics that we can talk about um I think uh at least to start it would overload the whole the whole structure to try to weave discussion into that and so my idea is to start with kind of a simple catalog of you know here's the stuff that we like to talk about and here's what we've talked about about those topics and here's how kind of we think about the world and making it a better place so discussion I I would propose should stick where we do discussion right now um even though I think we do it pretty poorly we discuss things in the ogm list we discuss things here on calls we discuss things uh sometimes then matter most and I would just continue that um someday if we got really good at um at kind of managing an information construct like the ogm topic thing which has got a fair amount of management overhead to it publisher or publishers editor or editors hopefully editorial team editorial board and authors I'm talking so right there I'm talking like this is a six or 10 person project it's not um you know Pete and Jerry or it's not Jerry or it's not you know any one of us it's a it's a bigger project um so if we got really good at that and we had you know another six or twelve people who could manage a discussion space then we could maybe come back to something like we used to have the ogm forum which was built in discourse discourse was the ogm forum was actually a really successful experiment and it kind of like expanded and evaporated because we we didn't grow the management team the the overhead team that could take care of the space and us having our discussions having said that so it it's uh defunct right now it's it's actually uh the the archive is still on the web live and not live pickled and people can go read the whole thing uh you can't contribute to it anymore because it's not software it's just static pages now um the the forum was actually beautifully successful as an attempt at getting discussion going um and it just faltered on managing the discussion the meta stuff the overhead stuff so we could certainly come back to that if if we had the the resource the resourcing for it um of course I I imagine a technical publishing team I would be happy to lead it and if it were me leading it we'd be having the authors right in whatever the tool they like typewriters or microsoft word or google docs or obsidian doesn't matter don't care I'm happy to take whatever wherever handwriting would be fine um so authors write in whatever tools they they feel comfortable with and then the technical publishing team turns that into a massive wiki and then the massive wiki is partly a publishing engine so it comes out on the web um future versions of massive wiki will also come out in ebooks and paperbooks if you really wanted more pdfs uh so that's the the general idea um I I think it would help us a lot to feel like we're actually actually accomplishing something kind of rather than just grinding over the same spots over and over um so I I would be excited if more people were involved thanks um Pete thank you very much uh mr friend has his hand up yeah good morning everybody pete I like it a lot I like it a lot uh I think you're on to something and you framed it really well um uh I was I was wondering about the the publishing options and you covered that toward the end there uh I wonder about um who's in what are the boundary conditions for participation at different levels and how they get figured out uh because something like this needs a semi permeable membrane like living systems have can't do no membrane can't do wall got to do semi permeable and the valving conditions are going to be really important um if people aren't aware of it uh world changing was a terrific example of an edited volume done about gosh 10 or 15 years ago by alex steffen and a team of brilliance um and uh might be and if you're not familiar with it it's an interesting model to look at and I could introduce you to alex and how that was done back in the day of pre-web um I mean web was there but the book wasn't done in web um on discussion I understand why you want to have the discussion in a separate place but I think about a reader's experience to be able to to read a chunk of writing and then see discussion or participate in discussion on that right there seems to be real value so maybe that comes later in the time sequence maybe there's a way of bringing stuff in from a matter most or other was other other discussion space into this and a curated process but I you know for my listening I'd want to have these these chapters or whatever we're going to call them be live and interactive so there's a challenge of how to do that um you mentioned ogm forum the pickled thing I don't know about it what is it how is it well how is it different than matter most and why did it pick up uh pick your muted yeah I if I may real quick uh it's forum.openglobalmind.com uh it was discourse software um uh and the reason it's pickled is because we we um earlier times uh we were less uh sophisticated about our knowledge about facilitating conversations. I think Pete is too kind um if I if I will be if I will be frank here and I think I think Pete would agree um I didn't participate on the discourse forum really at all I couldn't get over there it was too much text for me to like like sort of sing into and I'm relatively sure that my non participation over there despite several other people Rob will keep was in there trying to help us like herd cats and figure out what to do there was there was a lot of interest and a lot of activity um but I think my not being over there built the gap between what was happening there and I I would not necessarily have deprecated it I would have sort of enjoyed it uh continuing and going on but uh but Pete said no let's let's let's uh let's euthanize it uh so he archived it he basically uh put it in carbonite and uh uh you know put it on put it on the web exactly I can put a a finer point on it um um since Jerry you're throwing yourself on on uh somebody's sword I'm not sure who um I I think I just fell on I think I just fell on my own um so you know we we were less collectively maybe the folks of us who think about where OGM discusses things which is a fairly small group but it's non-zero it's actually a me and Jerry and Robokief and and a few other people um uh anyway uh we were less sophisticated at the time so um I I set up a discourse as yet another uh conversation space um the software is not perfect um and and that was one of the troubles that we had but it is really good um and uh and we got a lot of engagement uh so the the point where where I made the decision to picklet was um we uh Jerry is a Jerry is a great convener and a very soft manager um so uh so it was that the conversations had gotten to the point where it needed some gardening and pruning and uh resets of the categories the original categories that we had were just kind of like Jerry and me in a rush actually because of some time deadline we had external deadline we kind of came up with some categories and like okay let's talk and uh we got a bunch of conversation we got to the point where we needed to trim it and move it and stuff like that discourse is amazing software for kind of moving conversations around but you have to have an editorial team as a facilitation team that does that we had a few people who were willing to do facilitation and editorial um Robokief and Bill Anderson and me maybe one or two other people maybe Charles um so we had a we had a we still have a Mattermost Channel um about doing facilitation for the forum um we couldn't that team couldn't get a charter from OGM uh couldn't get a charter couldn't get a decision on yes let's go ahead with your proposal we had a nice proposal for how to reorganize things and we're willing to do the work to reorganize it and because OGM is a fluffy ball of things attracted around Jerry it doesn't have a decision point and so uh that was basically the where it failed it failed to be able to decide to have some governance and structure and facilitation even though we we had the resources for it which was um which was painful um and I don't I don't have any blame you know it's a it's an a blameless situation but um but that's what happened um another a thing that we might have done we could have done is instead of a small team and an unnamed publisher we didn't have a publisher and it basically uh instead of that we might have um uh gone to the the gone to OGM whatever that is the the few hundred people who you know participate in OGM in different ways we could have said hey we have this cool resource we have this cool space um let's let's get some organization and resources around facilitating and maintaining and things like that we didn't do that and so now you'll see what I'm doing now with the OGM topics thing I'm I'm structuring a little bit more um uh leaving complicated things like discussion kind of outside of it or to the future to your point kill um and it's the idea specifically has a publisher whoever that is an editorial team and editorial facilitation team essentially and so that's why I think this will succeed if we can get enough resources for where the OGM forum failed sorry for the long background um but it is kind of interesting and and kind of precedes I think the the effort and and resolve collective resolve it would take to get back into doing discussions well the the forum was almost amazing um uh and or it was amazing and you know just needed to go the next step up and collectively we weren't able to make that next step so thanks thanks Gil for the question thanks Pete uh Rick Ben Stewart yeah I'd just like to offer a sort of an outside in perspective because I pop into these sessions now and again I'm not a regular attendee and I you know read a few of the things um and one of the questions I have is to what extent do you want to do outreach and expand that and I just wanted to maybe offer a different perspective on the notion of editing the book I've done self-publishing I've done one edited book and after doing that I says I don't want to do that again um and I won't go into the reasons of but I'm saying there's a lot of work when you bring people together and you have to have an it is so an alternative strategy is actually is to as a stepping stone is to use uh or consider using sub stack because sub stack a lot of authors go there and they trial things out it's like pre-marketing of your ideas where people from the outside can see what you're doing and generate interest um so I don't know if anybody I've just started to experiment with it I don't know if anybody else has got pros and cons about uh that publishing platform because a lot of authors do use it to share book chapters with their readership and whatever so my question is to what extent does you know OGM want to do more outreach to people like myself who pop in and out and you know have competing um you know interests so I just throw that down and see what people think thanks Rick and there's a there's a platform discussion we should have let's talk more broadly for a bit before we head it back into lots of platforming sort of stuff because I think there's a lot of big issues to to cover here but sub stack is definitely in the in the mix I think Stuart yeah um what you just said Jerry that's exactly kind of where I was going I think the idea is a great one and it would provide some purpose and focus but what I'm hearing and I'm sorry I missed the first five minutes of the call and I think Pete articulated this in his quote proposal um I think where we are right now there's a little bit too much of um of ready fire aim we're down into the details of publishing without the real clarity um of what the vision is um and and what success is and and why exactly it is that we're doing it because I think that that would create a real kind of grounding um for the uh for the effort and and I think that's uh that's real important to have it explicitly articulated because otherwise we have a lot of uh you know implicit understandings of what it is that we're that we're doing thanks Stuart um Pete you're back up um thanks thanks Stuart that's a good point um I have to say this idea is about um three hours old two are old um so um in internet years though that's like a decade I do have a goal um in the proposal uh the goal would be to have settled recorded overviews of our usual topics such that when we ask ourselves what should this week's topic be we have language and background from which to choose or to choose a new topic which might start any spark a new chapter in the in the website um so I would love to flesh that out and I totally agree uh it would it's it's critical to have a clear vision and a clear understanding of it I think also the um it it may be a little bit implicit um but drawing on a couple years of experience with OGM and collective discussion and and uh failure failure to actually um publish that well um uh the and the the the the roles thing publisher editor author authorial teams um technical publishers that's really meant for people to step up and say uh I you know I'm willing to commit to whatever you know that role takes um for authors it would be you know I I sit down and write some stuff together with hopefully with a couple other folks and then we check it every month to make sure it's still up to date or we add in some new stuff that we've learned from the OGM discussions or whatever um for the editorial team it's probably more like we meet uh for an hour or two once or twice once once every week or once every other week or something like that um the editorial team by the way we have a we have an interesting model um there's a sense doing group that some of us are participating in um uh and we've been meeting for about a month maybe a month and a half every week for an hour and a half um we've kind of meandered around but it is a group of people who have committed to kind of the same kind of work as the editorial team would have to do let's you know let's um let's collectively kind of think about information architecture and and publishing and stuff like that so I we have a we have a number of models that's not the only one we have a number of models of people doing the editorial teamwork that I think we can draw on and and leverage um I wanted to come back to uh real quick I don't want to distract us from the discussion but um I wanted to come back real quick to Substack and um I forgot who mentioned that now because I don't see them on the screen um uh I would love to talk with Substack about Substack more I I run two things off of Substack I also run the Plex runs off of Ghost instead of Substack so I have some some different platform experience and thoughts um I started to look at another self-hosted uh Substack light kind of thing which I kind of recommend um I've had a bunch of discussion the past month or so with um with Jordan Sukut of Lyonsburg about he's like Pete let's do a newsletter you know and should it be WordPress should it be Ghost he was his choice was Ghost um should be Substack and so I've kind of like gone back and forth with Jordan a bunch about that and I would love to chat with anybody who's interested um the the gloss on Substack is that uh it's it's super useful and they're they do a good job at creating audience for your newsletter um the bad news is um they're the they're they're not necessarily the kind of people that that OGM folks would want to associate themselves with um so Jordan and I in discussion um and and Medium is another good one Gil I've got Medium stuff too um uh Substack is got a real costume flag for me now um it's uh because it's venture funded because it's um mostly concerned about growing audience um because of some of the backgrounds of the of the folks involved with Substack um it's a it's it's a beautiful and wonderful tool and I love using it and it's yet another one of the capitalist strip mine operations I think so that's a really short gloss I have a kind of a longer rant I'd have to get into uh to explain the whole thing but uh where Jordan and I ended up was uh self hosting the newsletter publishing stuff um and I think that's a better way to go um so I this is I don't mean that to be a long excuse me comprehensive discussion about Substack I mean for it to be a bookmark for a much longer discussion probably not an OGM call on a on a special um topic call and and to Jerry's point let's skip I would really love to defer the software conversation now there's a lot to learn about it and we can share it but this is this is the wrong moment to to eat the next you know period of time for that I think thanks Jerry thanks for sharing yeah let's talk and I'm not trying to shut you up I'm just trying to differ well the topic is one that I can go on and on and on about it is super important this I know let's talk about OGM topics which is the useful one awesome thanks Pete um Dr. Witzel hey thanks everybody yeah Pete I agree with Gill this is like a great idea and I'm very excited by it and nervous kind of so and to me the issue I think it's getting back a little bit to what Doug was saying I'm worried about kind of particularizing the world too much when what we need is whole of them and so I don't know how you do chapters in a holistic way kind of um but I guess I kind of I mean maybe there needs to be some conversation about what open global mind is that kind of is reflected in the values of the thing or something I don't know and is global mind just people or is this like are we talking a guy a mind or something I mean I feel like you know for me coming from this regeneration space where I want to have regenerate kind of a regenerative reductionism I want themes going through this or or I don't want to do nouns I want to do verbs you know I mean I think learning and change are the two most important things so that's what you know I don't know something like that but um so that would be my concern kind of is like I don't want to contribute to the further partitioning of the world I don't want to contribute to the further problem analysis I want to be kind of focused on opportunity creation those kinds of issues and you know how do we kind of make sure what we're doing and I guess I kind of feel like it probably comes out as you do the table of content or something you know I mean there's probably a process you go through that that that helps address these issues and they're probably early in the process anyway they're not the tech platform I would argue they are something else but but anyway that would be my big concern is kind of how do we how do we make this you know not another um uh you know booked by by uh who's the anti-fragile guy you know or something like that no seem to love yeah um thanks Dave Pete your hand is still up Doug okay um I'm wondering also who we are and this and what we want I find for myself I run a blog on sub-stack and it's my primary output so I come here for kind of emergence and soothing and modeling through things around uh I think what Pete's talking about would really suggest that I bring my more logical process uh into the OGM effort but that means taking it away from the sub-stack and so I'm wondering for most of us is coming here a secondary support activity to our main activity and that's going to make it hard for us to participate in what Pete is proposing thanks Doug um I've got a bunch of things I'd like to put in the room I've got my notes in in the chat so I'll just put all of the notes in and then I'll talk to them so first oh my god yay persistent artifacts like I've been one of my pet peeves of all conversations I'm involved in like this is that brilliant things go by on private mailing lists and other sorts of places and don't make their way out into the world and that we keep repeating the same conversations over and over again and that we don't build a cumulative ever improving resources around these things and so what Pete is describing feels like some of those answers as well as a book uh to write which is awesome um edited volumes I hadn't sort of heard the terms so of course in my brain this morning I connected that to anthologies and to collected works and a bunch of other things these are all each different edited volumes are really interesting I like that as a as a framing just like Wikipedia has encyclopedia as a framing that was really helpful to to Wikipedia getting off the ground um one concern I have is that it sounds like Pete from your proposal that we would convert these weekly calls into the project of making this book okay so you're suggesting a new set of calls and a separate project because as Doug was just saying and this is an interesting question because as Doug was just expressing he likes to come here and sort of for the for the bond on me and the muddling through and they're just sort of soaking in the community which I deeply appreciate and I also know that some of us are concerned or irritated for our lack of getting things done our lack of mission other things like that so I'm kind of ambivalent on that front because if and I think that if we were to do every other call like now we do every other call as topic every other call as check-in if we were to alternate every other call to do this project we probably would never never get this done it needs more of a rhythm it needs more time devoted to it than twice a month for example so so clearly that have to be other kinds of things um but if we took three months to see how far we could push this and and used all of the ogm thursday calls to do this for three months I would not have a problem with that I would think that would be a really interesting different way for us to sort of ram a jammer together we would learn a bunch of things about each other we would get things done but this would be more like an editorial meeting or a or a project you know a project management board because we would then be going and writing chunks that we cared about so so that's really interesting to me and I I'd love to know what everybody thinks um I don't really want to and this is only my personal opinion I don't really want to write a book that's all about the crises and the outline that Pete got back from hey what would socially conscious people do was was a description of the major crises in my brain I have a thought called there are now five may five major crises or six or seven I connected them all like I carried all that information I really dearly want there to be reference resources online that are excellent that collect up these different crises and that collect up what's broken and and that allow for different people's theories about what's broken and what's do about it I think that's really interesting and so so um for me like like the book that that I still haven't published that that I'm written and that I'm writing in my head is like the start of the book is like hey I hope if you're reading this that you're convinced that there's a bunch of crises going on I'm not going to try to paint them all for you um go over here if you'd like to learn about about the crises and and you know if this works then go over here means go to the resources that that we've just sort of described possibly doing but I'm interested in using those resources and sort of overlaying on top of them uh to to write a book that overlays here and Pete's heard me say this a couple different times but um I'll put I'll post a couple of uh of links in the chat uh I've got two videos I did a while ago one is that presentations and books are just playlists of and that they're playlists of nuggets and I have a different video which I did long ago called nuggets narratives and points of view and one of my desires and goals is to actually co-author a book alongside other people writing books that share nuggets that share chapters so that if we had a really good dense pithy write-up of uh pandemic management and what what you know what what broke about this this pandemic and what to do next time that could be commonly used by a bunch of people or about uh regenerative agriculture if there was a really pithy and beautiful uh piece out there that we crafted and curated and when I say I don't want to publish a book about the crises I really would love to participate in the making of the artifacts that explain each of the crises I think that that's extremely important work and so uh and so what I what I'm envisioning here is that we could have six books or n books come out of this process and there's get book there's a bunch of uh sort of uh markdown to book kind of engines uh several of us have talked on other calls about how do you get books out if we can manage to get the making a book thing into Kindle uh file format or KDP or EPUB or whatever other formats it is we can make that sort of simple and if along the way we plug in things like sub stack slash go slash whatever so that our progress reports wind up being a newsletter that keeps everybody sort of up to date that is a different vehicle for ideas out so so I'm interested in things like sub stack and other sorts of tools because they're a way of making the work have a life before you're done publishing a book because historically author goes away for five years writes a book puts it in the publishing mechanism which is another two years and then finally there's a thing on the shelf which is protected by being on paper that nobody wants you to Xerox or electronic that nobody wants you to copy and mark up and break apart so I think our process here is the opposite of that um so I would propose at the risk of of of complexifying this too much but but what having multiple books does is it allows us to not have to reach consensus on what the one book is which I think is going to be really hard for this group because we have a lot of different priorities and wishes and desires and it allows several of us whoever wants to step up and sort of do it to go write a book without having to write the whole book because several of us would be like oh there needs to be a general chapter about this mechanism this dynamic that four of us really care about and agree about let's the four of us write that nugget and then place that into the sphere of the book the the co-book that we're trying to write so sorry if that's too many things but that this feels like a very ogme missiony kind of project I like that about it as well and that is what I wanted to throw in Stuart then Pete then can yeah um book is static a book is static it's not living and I and I think that um the areas of of inquiry the things that we want to write about are very much living and evolving and emerging and so I I'm feeling a lot of caution about thinking about this in terms of some kind of a a paper book especially given the technology skills of so many people here on this call the idea of something that's living that keeps growing seems to me more appropriate for this group I'm Stuart I totally agree and I've got a riff on how books are just souvenirs they're just snapshots at a point in time and I completely agree and the first paragraph of the book I'd like to write says hey thanks for buying this souvenir the real thing lives online and is alive and every nugget is connected to discussion and communities that are really concerned about that and to resources if you wanted to go do something about it and everything you just said yes yes yes yeah and that's that I think is is what this group is kind of in some ways uniquely qualified to provide to the world and put out into the world uh Pete sorry um thanks thanks all um and so they agree Stuart uh and and with Jerry um I for better or for worse I started with a book metaphor to kind of describe the idea of what you know what edited volume is um but it I really I really uh was thinking as a as a living website and discussion you know discussion around that community outreach all that kind of stuff it's not supposed to be static it's supposed to be a living thing I'm gonna go real quick in my excitement to wave a caution flag for substack and really talk to me first before you get serious with substack um Rick the the idea of Rick was trying to get across I think is more of hey let's do community outreach using something like substack or whatever ghost or you know whatever something that gets the the work of what we're doing out into the world as we do it um and and I I totally agree with that idea I think community outreach is an important important part of generating this kind of stuff I would like to see us build a bit of to but before we engage with the world I would like to see the subset of OGM that I'm calling the publisher and the editorial team and the authorial teams I would like to see those folks get a bit of an a nugget put together before we start engaging with the outside world I think we need to attend to our knitting and need to come together as a group to start to build something and then start to use what we're building and and you know both the the asset that we've got and the live active building you know hey here's a new chapter on and join our next call at I think that's a great thing but I would really love for us to get some process some um some experience working together uh as as a team before we we kind of like out you know turn that out into the world um Doug C talked about uh Yikes uh you know right now I'm I'm publishing stuff uh and I yeah I could divert part of that effort into you know into OGM topics pros and cons etc. Jerry talked about you know maybe we should take the Thursday call and turn it into you know let's build our OGM topics website asset thing for three months I like the idea of the three months personally I really miss um I really miss the Bon Ami the camaraderie the the the feeling of coming to a church service uh non-denominational church service um when we do not that on the Thursday calls so personally I would rather have the Thursday calls always be checking calls and then to have some other calls that do the work of of topic stuff I'm fine with the the compromise of half topic calls and half um spirit spirit calls um I I'm not sure that I would want to lose all the spirit calls um so so to come back to to Doug C's point you know how do we split the baby I the way I think of it I think the editorial team needs to meet uh every week or every other week for like an hour hour and a half kind of about the same scale of the since doing team right now um it's it's a chunk of your week it's not a huge chunk of your week and this is for the editorial team the author teams um I think you know it's it's how much time you have I I think you could sit down over a weekend and you know with with your folks uh bang out you know a decent chapter on whatever right um uh and then and then it's maintenance after that you know let's let's meet for an hour every month or something like that talk about you know kind of go over who heard what on the ojim calls that are germane to our thing uh let's either grab some of the new arguments and add them in or let's add a link to a couple of videos or into Jerry's brain or something like that that for the authorial teams there's an upfront for authors there's an upfront bolus of hey let's build something that doesn't have to be very long it could be literally a couple hours um or or 20 minutes with a chat bot I'm making a joke folks um uh or maybe I'm not uh but so there's a book the initial you know two four six eight 10 hours of let's write a nice article let's write a chapter but then after that it goes into maintenance mode and it's not a big a big deal um uh Jerry and uh Dave both talked about I don't know if I want to talk about crises you know like I don't want to be in in your face hey let's talk about all the problems in the world let's talk about holistic wholism and solutions um I like that uh I think I think there needs to I I don't have a preference I leave that up to the publishing team uh to kind of decide and you know I think of Jerry as kind of the core of the publishing team uh if he's if he's willing um I don't really care one way or the other I do think it's important um because in my life and I think in in each of our lives or most of our lives you come to that point in in your week and it's like shoot I have to confront society and um gun control I have to confront society and lack of democracy I have to confront society and decide whether or not to go to the mall and wear a mask or not you know um I I have to confront society's ability or lack of ability to control a pandemic well um so there at least needs to be a kind of a topics page hey if you want to read about um uh pandemic response um this is the part of of our topic thing that um uh that would that would you where you want to go hunt for you know what we think about pandemics or what we think about guns or what we think about democracy or what we think about of of war in Ukraine so that could be just a jump page a fact thing and then it goes into the the main beat meat of the thing which is much more holistic much more um you know of of a uh positive um take instead of a crisis uh bound take I'm cool with that um thinking about mixability I love Jerry's uh thing of mixability massive wiki is built that way as it happens um not that we necessarily need to use massive wiki not that massive wiki is the only thing that's built that way but massive wiki is built for remixing um and uh it's the easiest way to use massive wiki is to kind of mix and match from between different wikis um the other thing that's really important is to think about the license that you want to share under um and I think we're all pretty cool with with licensing but I it's it may or may not I I actually bridle I I still bristle when everybody talks about license it's like dude what I want to do is write and put stuff out on the world and I want people to do the right thing with it so for a long time I was I I think I started putting licenses uh you know do the right thing with with this you know um it turns out that in the real world you have to decide what you you you have a copyright on whatever you publish unless you specifically disclaim it um and then you have to do that very carefully to make sure that you've disclaimed it well so anyway because we live in a copyright regime world things need a copyright and then you need to decide what the copyright means so probably what we want is uh cc attribution creative commons attribution maybe we want public domain but that's one of the big topics to talk about with the publishing team and the editorial team and the authors is let's all agree with a license and hopefully it it's a license where we can do remixing um maybe not even hopefully uh obviously it's going to be a license where we do remixing so it's important conversation to have and and to you know make sure everybody signs up for the whatever whatever solution we did because in you know when you put your information out in the world it turns also to live in the world of um copyright and and you have to make sure that you've crossed your eyes and dotted your t's to speak a brief thing um inspired by the mention of Frodo Higland in the future of text in the chat um it would be useful at the beginning of this project to do a quick sweep through other communities and other projects we know about that are doing near near-neighbor work because some of them have solved a bunch of these problems and we may want to adopt exactly what they've done as our way of moving forward whether it's technology choices license choices or something else um ken mark then iphone which i think is eric but i'm not sure john kelly oh it's john kelly awesome thank you and i'm going to have to i'm going to switch to the phone at the top of the hour and go make an airport run uh so i will hand pass the con over to somebody who can actually see who's in the in the call to run it so i'll just be a participant then but go ahead ken so this is a Taoist riddle how does a Taoist master change the course of the mighty river who knows the answer to this gill knows the answer to this i'm not going to call on you gill no you don't know the answer she walks upstream far enough and moves a single pebble so i'm really interested when we talk about dividing the world up to how far upstream we need to walk to move that pebble so that we get a very different the river takes a different course um like dave and and some other people have mentioned here i think we don't need to convince people that the world's in a state of crisis that's a given at this point and those who are denying it there's no point in attempting to engage with them because they're just going to waste your time you know um what's that the principle it takes so much more effort to refute bullshit than to create it so just let's focus on what we can do and um i really like this idea that that pete's put forward not entirely sure how it'll all work out but i think it's it's it moves us a little bit more in a sense doing direction of instead of just sitting here talking we actually start to create a record and and a way to track what's going at brandolini's law thank you um way to track stuff and and get ourselves some traction in the in the sense of doing that so um i think one of the leverage points one of the places to move a pebble is around ideologies and in particular neoliberal capitalism as an ideology has probably done more harm to the world than any other ideology that i can think of so that might be an interesting topic to throw in there but maybe we have a section on you know ideologies that that are helpful and wholesome and ideologies that are destructive thank you and from the model i'm trying to use that would be a starting point for an interesting book that cuts across through this medium and that would be a point of view to take through the things that we're collecting together here and it's it's one i would love to read and help write um mark oh pause gosh damn it thank you please do um let's see microphone you're on we hear you yeah um just kind of demonstrating technology hi um boy technology sucks um as a technologist as a software uh debugger i just found so many problems with uh internet archive this morning um and posted them um yeah we basically have a great team um the ux team uh user experience team i'm really proud to be on it um and we coordinate really well um we use uh issue tracker i think it's called jira um and i just wanted to point out that froda haigland has been somebody i've known since god knows when but over 20 years and he's been slowly slowly building his team and boy do they integrate um from from the newbies to um who was one of the inventors of the internet al gore al gore al gore is not on uh froda haigland's uh team let's see um so i posted and i should post it again his youtube um if you go to youtube and search for froda haigland helend i think it's haigland um basically you can see his team working in real time and you know he has check-in calls um i think every monday and friday or monday yeah but but basically he's doing and it's taken him a hell of a long time um i always quote um kevin kelly biological processes take biological time technological processes go way too fast and rushing is a symptom of trauma as i've learned from my trauma therapy and trauma healing um i don't want to rush this um some people think oh my god the world's gonna end the world's never gonna end except you know billion zeroes for now humanity could end parts of nature you know the biological world many different organisms can come to extinction including our our species um i don't panic i slow down i've been taught to slow down and i've learned from painful experience that when i rush i hurt myself so you know basically three things froda haigland don't rush love y'all thanks thanks mark gill and feel free to pause pause is good mark thank you for the reminder that when we rush we hurt ourselves and break things so just uh i'm loving this conversation it's very rich i'm chatting a bunch here and copying a lot of things and um i echo what i said at the start pete i really like this provocation let's do some there's something here to do we don't know exactly what it is but yet um um um there've been a couple comments jerry i think yours most recently that we don't need to do a compendium of what the fuck is wrong with everything there's a lot of that out there that's not our job uh there's yeah well hang on hang on let me let me go with it i can still see you by the way you seem to not be in your car no i haven't i i start moving in three minutes so i'm still here yeah actually this is an avatar substitute i'm being synthetically generated already it's working pretty well looks like me how feels like me jerry bing so um stop it you guys um there's a lot of stuff about what's wrong um there's not enough stuff about what's right and what people are doing that is working and on the trail and when walking upstream toward the pebble um stan robertson did some of that in ministry for the future hawkin did some of that in um blessed unrest um so i'm i'm more interested in in solution sets than in well with soul thank you for flagging the solution problem but i'm more interested in what people are doing that's generative um than than a litany of ills but in between and jerry this is where i think your this is is that diagnosing the system is actually a really important piece of the work knowing you know figuring out which stream or which stream you walk up and which pebble you move and somebody i don't know who the quote is from but somebody said that prescription without diagnosis is malpractice and i think there's there's enormous wisdom and astuteness here to be going into that piece called diagnosis different than litany of problem so that that i think lives in this middle range something for us to consider now um hank go ahead and then i'm going to ask who would like to step in and play host from here forward um do you still have your hand up oh hank you took your hand down uh go ahead you're muted so we can't actually hear you no i didn't mean to put my hand down that's what i thought uh cool so why don't you go ahead and ken would you play host from here thank you yeah i think it's drive be safely jerry i think it's a great discussion as gill said i mean there's a lot of agreement that people think it's an exciting idea people think let's do something a lot of motivation so what i'd like to suggest is that before the end of the call a couple of volunteers uh put the hands up and say i'll do something i'll work out something i'll write something i'll start a prototype i'll uh fill in more information on the website that uh and the web link that pete showed us at the beginning of the call so that by this time next week there's actually something more being done because everyone seems to agree it's a good thing to do and there's lots of yes spots and only ifs but we'll figure out more about that uh when we do some learning by doing so i'll keep it at that now i just i'm sorry to me two things one i just wanted to repeat the idea of ready fire aim versus ready aim fire as being real important and i'm hearing a lot of fire um and that big vision conversation really really hasn't taken place um that's one and maybe it has in in little snippets i i don't want to punctuate what gill said about um not writing about what the problems are but you know the diagnosis is so important and also the idea of um you know the frame that comes up in my mind is we have challenges and opportunities um that's all i'll come gabriell we're in the middle of a very intense conversation uh that's sprang from pete's i don't know if you had a chance to see the ogm list this morning about pete's idea of um edited volumes but i just wanted to welcome you uh thanks for coming thanks good to be here dave yeah i just wanted to i don't know if anybody else is getting this but your audio is breaking up for me actually think it's a legitimate pit pairing the proposal probably answers a whole bunch of these questions so dave sorry just your timber or something dave can you repeat your audio was very muddled um can you repeat that please oh sorry about that i'm having a wonky internet here uh i was gonna there's a link in the chat for an nsf open source ecosystem proposal that's due in september and i actually think you could apply for that with this if you designed it correctly um sorry dave you're breaking up again sorry well well we're not blaming you it's just pay your pay your isp he put it back in the chat for him yeah so dave we'll we'll come back to you if you get your electrons in order um hank yes uh yeah i just like to say i do agree with the stewart when you warn us about ready fire aim or even fire fire fire then ready and aim but i've learned so much throughout my life so far about the power of of learning by doing we have so many excellent conversations in in this chat and in a lot of the other uh ogm and matamos chats but i think if we only stick with conversations we'll never learn to uh to how should i say it we'll never learn to multitask ready aim and fire so that's why i really like to keep suggesting let's do something first and by by understanding what went right and what went wrong what we are doing we'll improve the prototype thanks hey hey bill welcome um there's been a few there's some people on the call who have not spoken yet um just want to create a space for anybody who would like to step in um and if not we'll go to mark in a second but anybody want to jump in and say anything doug you're muted there we go yeah i'm i'm sort of um with stewart in the ready fire aim camp um and uh there's there's a tendency to start things at chapter four or five in generating new and um leave out sort of foundational steps that that are essential to uh sustainability and actually thrive ability in in launching new things and they're sort of rooted in in values and purpose territory that um you know there there is a value component of a collect collective or group of collaborators um and if if the the values dimension of each individual are integrated from the beginning then it invites um the risk of of um separations or destructive effects later when the absence of of of that level of integration for the individuals involves uh bubbles up um and on the purpose side of things i think can touched on something with with his um with his teaching about the pebble upstream um that there's also a specificity of intention in in purpose in what's the the contribution of value to the world what's the what's the thing that's providing the fire and the emotional passion and relying what's to be born um and and the need for that to be explicit and aligned as well as sort of a foundational piece um so i'll stop there but i just throw that out as uh potential place to start um to to put a stake in the ground to ground an earth what you're about to birth um and um in service to providing a a reference a north star reference both on the values and on a purpose dimension going forward so as it emerges and as you grow what you're about to bring to the world um you have orientation reference to cross check against as you go to make sure that what's being done going forward is in alignment um and with both with values and with the the larger than individual participant value contribution and and reason for doing it uh as you go and i'll stop there thanks Doug Mr. Carranza hola que tal uh to respond with a song snippet to Doug from Johnny Mitchell a beautiful poet i am as constant as the northern star constantly in the darkness where is that at if you want me i'll be in the bar thanks Doug um thanks both dogs so as a cybernetician scholar of the cybernetics history i'd like to point out that there are many ways to get in the muddle and make mistakes as per jerry uh Gregory Bateson there's ready ready ready ready ready ready is what depressed people do they prepare and prepare and prepare and they never act aim aim aim well perfectionism boy is that dangerous as well um fire fire fire well that's been mentioned already i want to point out as somebody who studies living systems living systems are biological a computer is not a living system the internet is not a living system they're part of the umvelt they're part of the um laban's belt the living world that biological systems live in a living system when applied to the internet is a metaphor the internet is not and will likely never be alive and i so believe that the category mistakes of our cognitive projections you know how a child um gives derived intentionality to a teddy bear um to you know how people give derived intentionality to AI dangerous because that is something that we can manipulate ourselves manipulate ourselves into trusting machines and inanimate objects and advertisements marketing politics thank you thanks mark gill unmute gill i think he's taken a little pause this is my little pause here they're bigger than they're bigger than Donald Trump's no i think the little pause important mark thank you so much for that thank you so much very important very well said um you know i've been i've been thinking lately about the living world as the frame of all the things that i'm thinking and doing and as the the the challenge of our time with what might it be like if we actually lived as though we live belong as though we actually belonged to the living world and so thank you for flagging the runaway metaphors it strikes me as i play with our friends at chat gpt that the distinguishing feature between ais and humans this is a different touring test maybe is that they don't care and they can't and we do and we can't not and i think there's something very important in that distinction and in being you know we humans live in metaphor we can't it's one of the many things that we can't not do but being very attentive to them and how we use them and how they use us strikes me is really important so mark thank you for that back to the more tactical piece of this thing i think stewart maybe got misquoted at some point or maybe i misheard him but i think stewart you were calling for ready fire aim no no i was calling for ready aim ready aim fire we weren't doing enough aiming okay i'm calling i'm calling for fire aim then but let me say what i mean by that so the ready is many of the things that people have been talking about is the taking the time and being you know then settling in and breathing and getting a sense of what is it that we're about you know what's behind pete's proposal or what's in pete in this proposal and what are we aspired to with this thing um but then from there i don't want to spend a lot of time aiming i want to build something build some shit fast mock it up look at it tear it apart build it again tear it apart figure out what we're doing in the doing of it because we're trying to do something that's you know sort of pieces have been done but the whole vision that i'm hearing from pete um i don't know anybody who's done it yet maybe some of you do and it may be that the best way to learn how to do it is to ready plenty of time for ready fire break it smash it tear it apart diagnose it learn what happened and after a bunch of that then then come back and aim and then build the actual thing that's it that's a thought just to shorthand what i'm trying to say is you know simon cynic has got this phrase what's your why in some ways what what i think we need to do is what's the why for this project um and then yeah i i'm i'm absolutely fine with the idea gill you know of of you know fire and let's see where we get and then iterate as we go forward as a as just a framing suggestion if i can comment just quickly i also think that um i know the ready fire aim is a is a you know it's kind of a trite saying that you know like you're not really prepared but i think what pete's proposing is that we we're ready let's fire something off aimed at a greater coherence of what we're doing and we'll learn along the way where we're missing so that we'll get more and more accurate with our aim as we go along pete um think thanks ken that's that's actually um a really good way to put it i think um i wanted to talk a little bit mostly in reply to duck b um but um also to stewart um who cautioned us to know what you know what what are we trying to accomplish let's talk about that before we try to accomplish it um i totally agree um we don't do that enough uh neither ogm nor most of the world um i really like what hank said uh you know let's just start doing something and we'll learn which is kind of what ken said um i wanted to come back to what uh dug uh bright part said um and um and completely well completely agree uh and relate that some of us are in a little bit different place um and so um so when i think of that uh so i think of where i am in in the space of ogm and um and then i can kind of think from there kind of to a continuum of of folks in ogm so i want to kind of acknowledge that i'm coming from probably a very far end of of the experience with ogm and there are people all the way uh in that continuum so at the other end of the continuum are people who know about ogm and hear about the news once in a while maybe they read the plaques um maybe they are madermost and they don't see a lot of their list discussions um maybe they're on the list and they don't see any of the madermost discussions um maybe they come uh an hour and a half a week uh once in a while so those are ogm folks um and and they don't have a lot of experience with being you know doing the ogm thing um along with jerry and maybe just a few other folks um stacey is one of them interestingly enough and we haven't heard from you yet stacey um uh my experience of ogm is that jerry and i have an hour together most most weeks talking about ogm and other stuff um along with this call i see jerry and some of the other ogm folks in an hour for fgb in an hour for fellowship link those calls will often go a little bit longer um i hang out with the flotilla folks for another hour every week and that's kind of ogm even though we don't know about it very well for the last six weeks i've been spending time with the sinstering folks an hour and half every week and some homework calls um uh some of us participated in the dawn of everything book club which was hugely generative uh twice you know for like six weeks six months or something like that every other week um and then some of us have even participated in our late great kiko lab um or in lionsburg which is not yet late um not quite great yet but going there um and interestingly enough we had um before lionsburg has been going through ups and downs and i don't mean like goods and bads i i literally mean kind of like there's a lot of lionsburg and then there's not very much lionsburg and there's a lot of lionsburg and not very much lionsburg right now uh jordan and i are meeting semi regularly so i'm also in the lionsburg camp doing something similar where i'm doing with jerry um lionsburg had this really interesting thing as it was coming up this year uh in january february we said hey we should do kind of exactly what you said dug let's get together and and talk about what we called it um shoot now i can't recall it um uh we called it social dimensions what are the social dimensions what are the the conditions that we want to kind of set as a small group for the larger group that's going to come because lionsburg's lionsburg's vision is to exponentially grow and have billions of participants in you know five five to seven years um and all oriented towards solving the world's problems um and being better people so it's a it's a good vision even though it's quite expensive um the social dimensions coup uh was we met for like a couple months um probably an hour every week or something like that and we did a lot of the work of kind of you know where should we be what should we do and then we launched with everybody um so we had a problem actually where the social dimensions coup were way ahead emotionally and and collectively in in how to work together than the rest of the folks and end up causing problems actually i don't mean that to be a cautionary tale but um and and i don't mean to boast or brag i especially don't mean to boast or brag i spent a lot of time in ogm but the fact of it is that i do um what i wanted to say here and now i think i i feel like i kind of blown the blown what i was trying to say by litinizing but what i wanted to say is that for this particular project for ogm topics um i'm proposing something that i am pretty sure is well within our capabilities and well within the team of folks who have curated and uh uh cared for held carefully in hands um uh both on these calls and then the other attending calls that that we have within the ogm spheres um we have a lot of experience as a group working together and we have a lot of experience uh as a group working together to put together websites like the one that we're kind of talking about um i i think that folks here you know probably you have that kind of in the background but i i wanted to say that hey uh we got you um if if we can get folks together for the kinds of resource um commitments i'm talking about you know an an hour and a half every week or two for the editorial team the commitment from a publishing team jerry and whoever else to to actually make decisions about what this thing is supposed to be and i don't mean they're the ones that like ideate and decide what i mean by that is they're the ones that that make sure a decision gets made and make sure to arbitrate the decision um editorial team suggests that we you know publish on papyrus or editorial team suggests that we um have an information architecture like this hey publisher is that okay that's what i'm talking about a decision being made um so publisher has to has to have a commitment to to be the the core arbiter um editorial team needs to meet an hour and a half every week or two um authors uh need to put nose to grindstone or pen to paper for a few hours to get started and then commit to continuing to do that in the long term um that doesn't seem like a big resource requirement we're kind of at that level right now it might mean some of us have another hour or two out of our probably of our you know average hour of a week uh over over weeks um and the rest of it um foundational steps um thrive ability uh grounding and earthing what we're about to birth Doug that's a great phrase um we we have that we have that already and we're not taking an advantage of it every time we have been meeting week after week after week in these calls we we spend our energy um and it dissipates instead of um accumulating and so all this project is and and i don't actually i don't envision that impacting the thursday calls at all jerry talked about maybe it would um uh just kind of the just if if we could we could continue the thursday calls just so that they are and and and build a little bit of a structure to kind of a catchment basement that lets us build something rather than continue to dissipate our energy so um from the technical publishing team um if if uh if i'm elected um i got you um i think jerry's got you there are a bunch of us um uh ken bill anderson hank gill we we know how to do this we do actually know how to do it and i think the concatenation of all of our calls going back in time even that we have in our wetwear we have kind of a shared set set of values and philosophies and things like that which is not necessarily to say that we all agree we definitely have some some differences of opinions and different ways to think about things but we have enough to sit at a table together and and build this thing and and make it a useful artifact first for ourselves and then you know outward into the world thanks pete stacey before you go i'm gonna actually uh riff off of what hank said and if you're interested in um participating in this would you put your name in the chat so that pete knows who uh we can talk to about having other calls dedicated to this okay no worries about i mean just please don't take this on unless you know you have the time so totally respect that eric that's good modeling okay stacey and we got something done on an ogm call we actually got a tangible outcome oh my god this is the first i just wanted to say real quick thank you pete i agree with you a hundred percent um i just wanted to add that to doug's point which i also agree with that's why i suggested i really think that if we were to look at a table of contents and the perspective authors were to decide where they would fit in what their chapter would be that would take care of a lot of figuring out the why am i involved in this project who's involved it would just answer a lot of different questions for different people and i just wanted to highlight that thanks thanks stacey that's great still some folks that haven't spoken hozade do you want to say anything while you're here don't have to uh i was trying to shut up but you're pulling you're making me talk um yeah why because i understand the idea of documenting things but it still feels like we're not moving things forward we're just sort of recapturing what we've been recapturing in our conversations and i think part of the reason that we don't move things forward is because we're just rehashing the same things over and over again in many calls not just ogm but in calls everywhere and how do we go beyond that and i think the point of the pebble upstream is one of not dealing with oh look we've got another bucket here at the bottom of the stream and yet another bucket at the bottom of the stream and yet another bucket at the bottom of the stream and let's talk about all these buckets of water that we have we haven't looked to see what is impacting these buckets of water further upstream let's not talk about the buckets of water at the bottom but let's go up into a proto vision of what it is that's happening rather than um keep observing the same things over and over again done but at the bottom of the stream and so my caution would be are we just collecting more buckets of water in a more precise way in a nicer way in a more accurate way is it really going to change our habit of just saying look at the bucket i've got is it really going to actually influence our ability to look upstream or are we simply actually creating a tool to reinforce the fact that we want to keep talking about these buckets of water and that that's that's actually doing more harm than good are we are we going to change our habits or are we actually going to reinforce our habits and if it's only reinforcing our habits does it really make a difference i don't know the answer to that question but it feels to me like it's about looking upstream and starting to look at what's the influence of of these things rather than the buckets of water if we keep looking at the buckets we're never really going to move away from the conversation thanks so thanks ken for making me do that making you okay um we're gonna we're at time steward has a poem to close us out uh great conversation good to see you all steward muted steward it's one of those poems it's one of those poems it's called my lips poem it's called service it's called service and i think it it very much speaks to our our our dialogue today the reflective questions um um what is your calling and what legacy do you want to leave what institutional constraints that impact your service need to be addressed service arrived shared many friends purposeful meetings with noble ends seekers healers with common mission honoring tradition heralding transition suffering alone on separate paths learning what triggers personal breaths must be the change you seek substantial effort not for the meek doctors lawyers priests leading edge stand tall on values out on your ledge it's reeling spinning listen the yelp humanity needs your help those you serve impact many lives they're hurting searching fed up with lies seek what's enduring a calling to serve come with presence perseverance and verb seek to restore what's missing on earth remember you came to contribute worth time to rise up create new story and vision act quickly with resolve and precision time to lead colleagues and friends time to honor thoughtful ends engaging with prayers and dreams honoring service to hire things yeah all next week have a great week stay safe