 to you. We're so glad you're joining us on hope today on this Memorial Day weekend. We're on the heels of Pentecost is coming on Sunday, and we just love to spend this time with you to uplift and encourage your spirit. I'm here with Matt and Anna and Anna. Tell us about who we have joining us today. Yes. Well, first of all, it's so good to be back with you. I think it's been a whole week since I was with you last and yay for Friday. And today we're going to focus in on how to be wise to the motives of a person who might not have good motives towards you. We've all experienced heartbreaking situations of betrayal that hopefully pushed us to grow and become more discerning. And as Christians, we know God's word is the source of wisdom. Our guest today, Wendy Patrick is a career prosecutor and an ordained minister. She's here to talk about why bad looks good and how we can gain biblical wisdom to make smart choices in life, love and friendship that man. This is going to be interesting and good. I think a much needed conversation. I think in the day and age, we live in a lot of bad things do look good. But I will say this one thing that is looking good is the weather today. I'm so thankful for like 70 degree weather, especially on Memorial Day weekend. Sid, what are the plans for the weekend? So my plans I have like no there's no plans just to relax and bask in God's glory and creation. And if you're like watching us from Florida, you're probably experiencing good weather all the time or Alabama, whatever you're watching from. But we are just so glad that you are joining us for hope today. And I'm like looking forward to this conversation because I think when it comes to the relationships and different things, we might need a little wisdom if you're meeting family and friends and how to navigate certain things. So this will be very helpful. Yeah, absolutely. And also just a note on Memorial Day weekend. We know that while we're having our hot dogs and our potato chips and having all that fun that we do remember those who have served our country who have fought for our country and have lost their lives to gain freedom for us. So as you're having fun with family and friends know that that freedom and that fun came at a great price. And so for those of you who have lost loved ones in the military, we just want to say that we think of you. We remember those who have served over the weekend. Yeah, big deal for those who have committed their lives for us to live in this country for free. You know, think about even just when Jesus was doing communion, he said, do this in remembrance of me, right? And so and every day, let's do this in remembrance of those who just have sacrificed, you know, really given up their lives for us to live in such a great country. Hey, maybe do this as well. Maybe you know somebody who has served or is currently serving while you take this moment today, shoot him a text or you can tag him on social media since today is such a day in age with social media. Just honor those. The Bible says to give honor where honor is due and we honor all those who serve and sacrifice for this country. And speaking of honor to we definitely want to just say like on Sunday, Pentecost Sunday is honoring the Holy Spirit. I mean, what a day that we get to celebrate when the Holy Spirit like goes filled in the upper room and tongues of fire. Just really excited. I think we don't want to take for granted a Holy Spirit. You know, sometimes I feel like we hear about he is the most like misunderstood member of the Trinity, but he shouldn't have to be that there's nothing like having a relationship with the Holy Spirit when he leads you, when he guides you, he speaks to you. And sometimes, you know, Tom, I'm sorry, so Tom, thank you. That's a compliment. I'm so sorry. That was a complete life. I take you as the biggest compliment in the world. I'm sorry. Thank you. Sometimes I do think about when we think of, I think sometimes as Christians, we don't really understand fully what it would be like not to have the Holy Spirit like in our daily lives. I mean, that was such a momentum, momentumous thing that happened with our faith. And so I just think like, wow, the Holy Spirit changes everything. Celebrate it because the Holy Spirit is a gift in that really like plays well into our conversation today because the Holy Spirit is our counselor. He is the one who Jesus gave to us to live inside of us, to speak God's word, to speak God's wisdom, to us to give us that discernment so that we can live a life of joy and peace and freedom. And so speaking of all of that, have you ever misjudged a situation that appeared desirable but ended in disaster or been betrayed by a friend, co-worker or love interest? Well, Wendy Patrick, a career prosecutor has decades of experience working with victims involved with manipulators and offenders who didn't seem dangerous. She joins us now to help us master the art of discernment that will help protect us in life, love and friendship. So Wendy, welcome to Hope Today. Oh, thank you so much. I love this edifying conversation that three of you are having. And it's just a blessing to be able to join in. Well, it's so good to be able to talk about wisdom and discernment. Your book is Why Bad Looks Good, Biblical Wisdom to Make Smart Choices in Life, Love and Friendship. And it's so fascinating that you are a career prosecutor. You've had decades of experience working with victims who have been betrayed. And so tell us what finally prompted you to write this book? You know, it really has been my 30 years of experience in almost that entire time. I saw people just falling into the same pattern over and over again. Bad people, manipulators, they look good. They sound good. They've got that seduction of a silver tongue. They look good both on and offline. They look good on paper. Their resumes are wonderful. They're charitable. They're credible. They charm and disarm, but they are wolves in sheep clothing. Sometimes I say they're wolves in sharp clothing, because we tend to judge a book by its cover sometimes, or maybe I should say misjudge. So after having really lived it for 30 years, and I would say both personally and professionally, I don't know that there's anybody listening or watching that hasn't misjudged somebody that really impressed them. I thought, you know, there is so much biblical wisdom that can keep us out of these problems. And you know, I wrote this book, both for Christians and for non Christians, because so many of my secular colleagues say, I don't have time to read the Bible. Well, guess what? I've indexed it by topic area into 26 easy to manage chapters that are full of what you need to know to avoid making mistakes. That's pretty alluring. I would hope to anybody that might want to pick it up. Alluring for sure. The Bible truly is our our self help our handbook for life that gives us all the wisdom that we need to have our eyes open. And so, you know, it's interesting through your experience. Have you found that Christians can be easily deceived just as much as those who are not? Well, I don't know just as much and part of that has to do with the prompting of the Holy Spirit that if we go there first to help us make decisions, he's able to provide us that godly wisdom, that guidance. But it doesn't mean it's full proof in terms of our daily experience. You know, the the lore of the world is why we need security of the word. There are so many ways in which things and ideas and people just go viral today and social media influencers make it sound like everybody's doing it. I always tell the kids it's not true that everybody's doing it, but you need to be able to stop and turn to the word, especially before making important decisions on whether somebody you want to date or a job opportunity or a social event. If you get that unsettled feeling inside, guess what? That's often the prompting of the Holy Spirit telling you I've got some scripture on this and whether or not this is a good idea. As Christian, what really makes the difference for us as to whether or not we make good decisions is whether we stop and and heed the prompting of the Holy Spirit. After all, as you mentioned, he lives on the side of us for exactly that reason. And we use each other as objective and scriptural sounding boards to talk through ideas, whatever it has to do with relationships, jobs, opportunities. That's why we live in community to be able to have iron sharpening iron. So together we have the tools we need to make good decisions in life. So let's take one of those areas of love, love interest. You have a section in your book that talks about lust versus love and how sometimes lust can look like love. It feels like love too, especially at the beginning. And that's one of the ways that we really need to be reminded how easy it might be to fall for somebody that makes us feel a certain way. Let me give you a perfect example. You know, manipulators often look for areas of vulnerability and there are none of us, no matter what we've attained in life, however many degrees or be after our name on our business card that haven't retained some area of vulnerability. Manipulators take the time to get to know you to know what it is and exploit it. However, how do they do it? Bittersweet nothings. It's that seduction of the silver tongue mentality. We're sometimes even unable to recognize why somebody makes us feel so good, desirable, validated, smart, all the ways in which we are taught over the course of the years to feel good. If somebody is making us feel this way, regardless of what their intentions truly are, lust might feel like love. It couldn't be love because we don't know the other person well enough to have established that kind of an emotion. That sure is what it feels like, which is why I always say, keep going back to the word, the fruit of somebody's life, not just what they explain or what they allege. You know, as a prosecutor I say, show me the evidence. I say that as a Christian too. And so according to the Bible, what does true love look like in a romantic relationship? Oh well true love for each other is Christ's love for the church. So many scriptures on the selfless nature of true love, the caring, the respect, all of the all of what naturally common sense would tell you makes a good relationship but is validated through scripture, through the words of Jesus, through the red letter portion of the gospels where he talks about what love should really look like. That's selfless, other focused love. Even if you're talking about not necessarily a arrows or a copy but just sort of the concept of what love looks like, everybody understands that, whether they've read the Bible or not. And many relationships just aren't focused on the other person. They're more focused on somebody's giving me what I need to feel validated and desirable and pretty and smart instead of really experiencing that love really means that selfless looking out considering others more important than you, as Paul writes in his letters. I mean those are the kinds of things that distinguish true love from lust, from infatuation that might feel great but is not edifying in the long term. And so your key advice is to give the relationship time to see the true colors come out and see that evidence of love. And so let's move into the business realm. We have plenty of people, we're wanting to be able to make smart business choices, have partners who are wise and that will work with us not against us. And so what are some of the red flags in making a business partner decision? You know a lot of them are the same and that somebody might look great on paper, they might have a great resume, but what is the fruit of their life? You know, to use a lens, a camera analogy because they grew up in the age of actually the insta, insta-matic cameras if anybody remembers those, you gotta use a wide-angle lens. You have to see somebody in a variety of circumstances. You have to have time-lapse photography. Look at them over time. What do they do? What do they say? How do they interact with people who can do nothing for them? In business specifically, you may be in a circumstance where somebody doesn't give back extra change or doesn't say anything when they're under-charged when the bill comes in a restaurant. I always say people that are so easily able to cheat others are going to cheat you. And in business, just like in love, there has to be this appreciation that what you see is not necessarily what you get unless you've taken the time to get to know somebody on a deeper level where you can see the fruit of their life, of their business. There shouldn't be a disconnect between their work life and their home life. I call this red flags after five. It's one thing to know somebody while they're at work and they're on their best behavior. It's quite another to know where do they go after work. What do they do? Who do they surround themselves with? My parents used to say, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. Well, the fruit of somebody's life also includes the company they keep. So this is the kind of holistic view we have to have towards other people, even if we're looking not to enter into a relationship romantically, but a business relationship, many of the same factors. So tell me what is the difference between worldly wisdom and biblical wisdom? Worldly wisdom, believe it or not, in some areas, and I know that I'm preaching to the choir with such a savvy biblical wisdom group here, but a lot of it has to do with the same kinds of concepts regarding trustworthiness, reliability, but let me take it a little deeper on the biblical wisdom side of it. Oftentimes there's an honesty, an honesty and a level of selflessness, even in the business world, that scripture promotes friends stick closer than anyone. They lay their lives down for each other. I mean they're, you know, three-fold cord is not broken. There are so many different biblical analogies that apply to the business world that are very different than the what's in it for me mentality of the world. I mean I grew up with magazines as we checked out of the grocery store, us, people, me, self, that's not biblical wisdom. That's worldly wisdom and that's one of the, I wouldn't even call it wisdom, that's worldly promotion of, you talk about me too, of a me first mentality that often is part of what people think is good for them, you know, love yourself first. Well, that's not what the Bible teaches and these are some of the ways that we can make that distinction. It's that love for others and part of the biblical wisdom, I would say, challenge, even for Christians, is if you don't take the time to internalize what those scriptures say, it's virtually impossible for the Holy Spirit to bring them to mind when you're in a situation that you need them. So as many times as you read the Bible, as many times as you read certain scriptures that are your favorites, you'll always find something new and it's never time lost to start the day reading the Word. I always say it's a time saver because guess what? Just like Joshua's Extra Day, God can help you work faster. As a lawyer, I can accomplish more, more quickly and better if I take the time to read the Word in the morning because he's able to work all things for our good. Winnie, I'm just thinking about, you know, a couple people, they might not be able to kind of differentiate like wisdom and worldly wisdom. How would one begin to recognize if they're being driven by worldly wisdom rather than the wisdom and word of God? Well, the way to figure out that question now, which I think is excellent, is whether or not worldly wisdom is consistent with the Word, just like anything else that's not explicitly answered in the Bible, because we have many issues today in areas today that aren't explicitly addressed in the Bible. I mean, the Bible doesn't talk about things like abortion. It doesn't talk about the pandemic restrictions. There's so many things that go on today that are a little bit different. Yet, are the answers or potential answers today consistent with the greater themes in the Bible? That's one of the ways in which the Holy Spirit helps us interpret new and novel circumstances that we don't, we can't quote a passage on point, but we can quote an area that would have us answer it in a way, in a fashion that's consistent with what the Bible teaches, whether it is sanctity of life, whether it has to do with following the law, the rulers, the authorities, the ways in which the Bible addresses more broad topics, respect for government, respect and praying for your leaders, versus does it actually talk about whether or not you should follow rules post-pandemic? There are just lots of ways that you can find areas of greater consistency. And remember, you know, we all know that if you pray about these novel scenarios, Holy Spirit can help you answer those questions, even if they're not explicitly addressed. So, Wendy, in the last couple minutes that we have for somebody who has been betrayed, who is maybe putting lots of walls and guards up and doesn't trust as easily, can you just speak into their situation right now and give them some words of hope, words of encouragement on how they can move forward, be more wise and more trusting? Oh, Anna, I'm so glad you asked me that. So, to anybody that's watching or listening that is betrayed, that feels like they put their trust in the wrong person. I know what it feels like we all do. It's like being kicked in the stomach. There's no worse feeling than that feeling of betrayal when you trusted somebody. There is one person that will never let you down. That's Jesus Christ. And not only is he trustworthy, but he can help you move forward, move past and dull that awful feeling of betrayal. I know what it feels like. It feels like it's never going to end. It is so strong, it's all encompassing, but he can help dull that pain and not only that, more than that, turn that into hope, bright, confident, optimistic hope for a wonderfully bright future because that's what Jesus has for you, regardless of what you've been through. What he'll do is turn you into a survivor that can use your betrayal as a learning experience to empower, encourage and inspire others who are also hurting. Take comfort in the fact that we all been there. We understand and we can help each other move forward as a body of Christ. Yes, our God truly does work all things for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose. And so Wendy, thank you so much for your heart and for bringing all this biblical wisdom to us today. Thank you all. Thank you for having me. Man, what a powerful conversation. And hey, we're going to take a quick break, but trust me, you're going to want to stay tuned. I've got an important question that I need to ask you right after this break. We'll see you in a minute. Cornerstone Television exists to spread the good news through Bible-based programs and a fully staffed prayer line. Through CTVN, lies are saved. Hearts, minds and bodies are healed and Jesus is lifted high. We can't do this work without you. Would you consider sending a gift this month to keep the gospel moving forward with power? When you give, we'll send you Listen, Love, Repeat, which presents scriptural examples of those who lived alert, including Jesus, who noticed those who least expected to be seen, gives creative ideas for showing love to friends and family, suggests practical ways to reach out to the lonely, marginalized outcast, helps you comfort the grieving, and so much more. Ask for your copy of Listen, Love, Repeat when you give today. Call 888-665-4483 or go to ctvn.org slash donate. Thank you for your generosity. Hope happens here. Hey, thanks so much for sticking tuned and staying with us. You know, what an important conversation about how bad things can look good, but it's reminding me of a conversation I just had with someone that's near and dear to me that I've known my entire life just the other day, and he started to share with me about an experience I had when he was at an all-time low. I mean, maybe you've experienced this to yourself, to where he lost everything from his family, his marriage, his career, his job. He struggled with alcohol and a drug addiction, and so he was telling me that in that very week, he didn't know what to do, so he did the only thing that he knew to do, and he went to church, and I believe God sets certain things up on purpose to reach people, and so this is kind of funny in a sense. He gets to church, and all the seats were filled, except for one, and that one seat happened to be center, front, row. So he was like, you know what? I've got nothing else to lose in my life at this moment. I'll get out my comfort zone and I'm going to go sit in the seat. Sits down, well by the end of the service, and he's not an emotional guy, very tough, very rugged. I don't even think I've ever seen this man cry. He said his face was in his hands, and he couldn't stop weeping, and he's in the presence of God, and he's asking God, God, how did I get here? Why is it that all these bad things are happening? I'm a good guy. I do good things, and he said that it was in that very moment that he realized he may be doing all these good things, but he's doing these good things without God. Can I tell you that I've been down that road to where I think that all these good things are going to lead me into heaven, but the Bible is very clear that it's only a relationship with Jesus Christ that gets us into heaven. You know, the Bible doesn't promise us that once we have a relationship with him that everything is going to be perfect, everything is going to be great and smooth. No, he doesn't say that, but he does say that he'll never forsake us, and he'll never leave us. Can I encourage every single one of you watching, regardless of whatever it is that you might be facing? God is with you, God is for you, but he desperately wants a relationship with you. I want to tell you this, that doing a life without Jesus, without God, is to pretty much not do life or to live, or not live life at all. So, if you're watching whatever it is, I don't know what you're facing. You may be having some difficult times, things may be okay, but if Jesus isn't in your life, you're not living at all. So, could you do this with me and with us here today? All you need to do is pray this simple prayer. Let's make sure that you have a relationship with Jesus, because you know what, that relationship is not only about getting to heaven. God has promises and plans for you while you're still breathing on this earth, but it takes a relationship with him. So, once you say this prayer, wherever you're watching this from with me, dear Jesus, I invite you now into my life. I choose today to believe that you sent your son, Jesus, who died on the cross for me. I'm forgiven. I'm a child of God, and I choose right now to forget the things behind and to follow you the rest of my days. I confess with my mouth that you are my Lord and Savior. In Jesus' name, amen. Well, hey, if you prayed that prayer with me, man, we celebrate you. It is the best yes that you are ever going to say in your life, best decision. And do me a favor, if you want prayer or you love to talk with somebody a little bit more about it, call us. We love to pray with you at 888-665-4483. This is a big deal. New things, great things are yet to come, Sid. You know, Matt, I just so appreciated that story and just seeing like the heart. And I could see the tears in your eyes and just like that was a really powerful moment for your friend that was sitting right in the center for a row and just asking God, like, I'm doing all the good things, like, what's going on? And Jesus is like, but you're not doing them with me. And just recently, I was listening to a sermon the other day. I believe, I think, was Robert Henderson and he was just talking about the courtrooms of heaven. And but one thing he said that just really stuck out to me is a lot of times we're always just trying to like find God or look God. But it's like when Jesus is like my father, I've gone, but he's gone before us because there's many rooms, right? Some translations say mansions, but it's like we're called to step in to that place. I think a lot of times we're waiting for him to come down to us, but it's us being able to go and access him and being like, God, where are you? And maybe that's where you are today. God, where are you in this situation? Where are you in my marriage? Where are you in my family? Where are you in my finances? Where are you in my health? And I just really send strongly in my spirit that God is like seeking for us. It's like we're waiting for him to come down, but it's a season where it's just like reach out to him. Be still before him. If it's in the middle of the night or in the morning or whatever you have to do, sometimes you got to clear everything off your plate and you got to get with Jesus. You got to sit still before him. You got to cry out to him. And in those moments that he comes and he speaks and he's right beside you. And so today, if that's you, just take a moment. We hear at Hope Today, this isn't just a show. We don't like to put on a show. This is about you encountering and experiencing God because we know one touch from Jesus, one encounter with God and an experience with the Holy Spirit changes everything. And you'll never be the same. And yes, there's going to be troubles and tribulations that come. We know that happens in life, but it's amazing when you have there's a God who's like, I am a God of victory. I am for you. I am with you. I am Emmanuel God. He is God with us. He is God with you. So we just want to encourage you with that today. Maybe there's a lot of good things in your life, but the best thing that you need is Jesus and you need him today. Anna, what are your thoughts? Well, it says in Proverbs that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Fear doesn't mean this to be afraid of God, to be terrified of him, but it means to have great reverence for God because you belong to him. What he wants us to do is lay ourselves prostrate before him and behold him and humble ourselves before him knowing that his ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. We're not to lean into our own understanding but in always acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. Your life is hidden in him today. We love you. Thanks for being with us. Have a great weekend.