 Yep. Check that. This is Watch Me Work where we're going to spend time talking with you about your work or more specifically your creative process. I'm SLP. We've been doing this show for like 15 years. We started in the lobby of the Public Theater and since COVID we've been online for a while. We were five days a week during COVID lockdown. Now we're back to Mondays, which is the perfect time. Mondays at five where we meet as often as we can to talk with you about your creative process. What we do is we work together for 20 minutes. We each do our own thing for 20 minutes and the prompt is sit down and do some work and then you can ask me questions about your creative process and know that sometimes when you have a question specifically about your process it is so helpful to someone else who is not asking the question. So Lolly is going to tell us how to get in touch. Should you need to ask a question after the 20 minutes work time go Lolly? If you're in the Zoom with us you can ask us questions by clicking on the raise your hand button which should be in the reactions tab likely at the bottom of your screen. So if you have any trouble finding it you can just send me a message in the chat and I'll help you out and if you're watching via live stream on HowlRound feel free to send us your questions via the public theaters Twitter or Instagram accounts or via Watch Me Works Twitter account which is at Watch Me Work SLP with the hashtag HowlRound that's hashtag H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D. Awesome sauce and yeah before we get started working I think I'm just going to thank the public theater and HowlRound and specifically Lolly Pizarro for helping us get this thing off the ground every time we come around. So how about that so here we go we've got 20 minutes I uh oh my thing I'm doing is over there so I'm gonna get up and walk away and come right back okay here we go and that is time it is time it is time so now uh for the whoops for the remainder of the time until six o'clock until the hour we will uh talk about your creative process should you have any questions. All right looks like we already have a question from Laura you should be able to unmute now. Hey how are you? Hi, how are you? Good to see you. Nice seeing you congratulations on you the nominations of your actors. Yay right? Definitely love that happens loving that happens. That's great okay here is my problem I you know I'm still doing stand-up so and I'm um and my topic is race that's what you know I've been telling you that and I I because of Yuri Kochiyama she is in she was able to do speeches and stuff I can't do that the only way anybody will listen to me is if I make them laugh yeah great so I I started with a teacher in Connecticut and maybe I took her classes too long because she was great when I wrote the material and read it out loud to everybody she was always this laughter that you knew what to keep in what to edit out uh so now I'm just finding now that I'm in the city it's a little bit hard I'm I'm not finding it's I have the people but I'm it's it doesn't feel the same you know I guess I was so used to that teacher I don't know how to move on to be still funny or make it funny or whatever to write material or whatever right right right so you need a new sounds like you need a new sounding board or I mean I guess I'm it sounds like your teacher in Connecticut is no longer available you say you took her class no I don't yeah I don't want to do that go back great great great so you need a new group or a new person right a preferably a group because you know I mean you want to try it out on I mean I I mean I I don't know anything about stand-up comedy except what I've watched you know and having been on stage myself and told said things that people find funny you know I just take that as kind of a it helps to have more than one person right so you need kind of a way to try out your material yeah I have that okay actually and I even have it with my old people but I guess it wasn't like they didn't they don't really know how to do it like my teacher did you know what I mean it's like it's a group together and they they do give good criticism and critiques but I just don't find it as helpful as with her I don't know right so but it's tricky because you're saying you know you kind of you know going in both directions you're saying you don't want to go back to your teacher and yet the people you're finding or the people you have or the people you're finding who are new can't quite give the great feedback that your teacher could give either you know you have to keep looking for people to try the material out on and learn how to I mean ultimately hopefully you would learn how to give yourself that kind of feedback that you were getting from your wonderful teacher you know you want to sort of develop that skill and I think you develop it by going out there in you know I'm trying your material out are there I mean are there like uh you know comedy clubs or stuff have those sort of open mic nights I mean I have a place there I have a place that I'm there and I love it the comic strip live and I could go there any time and it's great so and I have like my little mentor she's 88 years old she's the booker she is 48 and she's Jewish and when she met me she totally got me because you know I'm the midget Chinese that sounds like a Jew you know that's great but tell me Salura I don't get it what are you not getting I mean it sounds like you don't know huh I don't know I don't got a great venue a wonderful mentor who gets you a great sort of place to go where you can try out your material live you just need to what go out there more often you know no I think it's just actually like I've been just running my stuff that I have now you know the the five minute that I that is good but I'm scared to do new material and write it and that's what I am like oh well then you need to you need to go ahead out there and go to your audience okay this is new material I'm scared to do new material do some of your old material the stuff that you know works or gets the laugh so the reaction that you want and then tell like maybe two new jokes you know what I mean you know if you like two minutes of new material if you have a five minute slot I don't know how long the slots are five minutes if you have a five-minute slot do two minutes of old material that works and then three minutes of new material or three minutes of new old material three minutes of old material that works and then two minutes of new material. Okay. Okay. To put your toe in the water a little bit. You know, and to develop the confidence to really get out there with the new stuff. Okay. Thank you. Yay. Thank you. Great question. Thanks. Thank you, Lara. Looks like MC has a question. You should be able to unmute. I just wanted to tell you guys I'm so happy to see you and really missed you guys. So it's wonderful to see you all and you know. Thank you. What did you usually have the Golden Gate in the background? Yeah, I switched the Golden Gate around then I tried the Caribbean and now I'm just like blurry, which is you know my state of mind because I'm working on an unreliable narrator. So oh, very interesting. And I'm trying new stuff and I love what you just told Laura so that when I present some new stuff, I'm just going to say it like that instead of being apprehensive, which I will be or not doing it. I'll just say this is new stuff. This is new stuff. Right. This is new stuff and and if people are are welcoming of your new stuff, good. That's how they should be. You know, if for some reason, you know, one person in the group is mean or whatever, they don't know. Fuck them. They're not they're not your people. You know, you know that. So yeah, but by saying this is new stuff. That's a great way to preface it. You know, I love that. And yes, like you said years ago, keep adding to your pile. So it's a good pile. So yeah, you adding to your pile. That's right. Yeah, adding to it. Keep, keep, you know, keep making your stuff, you know, but it's wonderful to see you all. So thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sitting. Oh, looks like we have a question from Immanuel. You should be able to unmute now. Hi. Hi. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Okay. Um, I'm very happy to be back. So thank you very much. This is very heartwarming. Yep. And it feels like a constant that keeps the motivation going. So thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. So my question is, so I'm writing this musical, and I'm realizing my pro process or whatever that means more and more is that my brain is absolutely not linear. So it goes in all different directions. And I feel now that I need to just write down whatever is coming into my brain as it comes and not try and write a scene or write a character description because I'll start writing in character description. There's something else will pop in and then I'm going to write that down. I've also noticed that handwriting is the best for me. Great. So my question is that I find it very difficult to know number one how to organize myself. Right. And number two, how to know when to stop because it just never stops. Like the possibility of developing and like the ideas just keep coming. But at one point, just need to sit down and write the thing because it'll just take, you know, everything is expandable to infinity. So it's, you know, those two things how to organize the thoughts and how to know when to kind of put a cap on the development, I guess. Right. Right. Okay. Well, how to organize it. So you're writing you're writing you like writing by hand. Yes. And what do you write by hand on what? In a notebook. Great. Okay. Great. Okay. So yeah, that's it's kind of it's a great question because perhaps you can if you want, you can keep writing your notebook if you like that. You can also switch to and I'm looking around to see if I have any. I don't know. I'll just use this as an example. Index cards. This looks a lot bigger than the one I have in mind. Right. Three by five index card. Right. You like that. You know, right. Yeah. That way, you can write down your ideas as they come to you and organize them later. Right. You know, you can develop a big pile. Right. Sure. Yeah. Okay. So that's one thing you can do. That would be super helpful if you write down even you can you can take everything you've written down so far in your notebook and transfer to index cards and put basically one idea on an index card. You don't want to get to, you know, detail, you know, try to capture one idea on an index card. And they can be in any order you want. And then when you go down, then you go, okay, so well, what's the story? What's the, I mean, you don't even have to say what's the beginning minute. What's the end? What's the last thing I want to see? Is it a, it's a musical, right? What's the last thing I want to see? Just pretend you know. Great. That's what we call the end. And that's the end. So you write that down on a card. That's the end. So then you put that's the last card. And then you kind of organize them like to accumulate toward that last card. You know, sure. You know, because you the development process, it can expand to infinity. If you want it to, you know, it's it's not like some, you know, a galaxy and it's not it's something you're writing, you know, I mean, then, you know, like people say, you know, you're never finished rewriting, you know, you're, you know, yeah, you are, you stop writing it, you just say thank you, I want to something else, you know, I'm saying, you stop, you're done, I'm done. I'm done with that. I want to do this one. I've written a lot of things. And I don't go back and like rewriting stuff. I'm done, you know, I'm good. We're good. I'm on to the next thing. So you can say, you know, I'm good for now. I have enough of these cards, enough of these note cards, and I have an order for the story. Now, when you get in rehearsal, of course, and on all that, you'll know that the development process will continue. Okay. So it's not that you after you say I'm done coming up with ideas for now. Now I'm ready to write. That doesn't mean that you're not allowed to come think of anything new after that. You're, of course, you're allowed. It's called rewriting and the development process. That's a really beautiful part of rehearsal. Once you involve actors and a director and designers and producers and all that kind of stuff, right? That it's going to keep growing, but you want to get to the point, some kind of point where you can go, I'm ready to write now. I know the story. The story is, oh, all these things happen and that happens at the end. Okay. So yeah, just know that there is an end point. There are many end points along the way. There's an end point to you coming up with ideas. There's an end point to research pause. It's not a hard stop. It's just a gentle pause where you're able to collect your thoughts. It's like a pit stop. I'm going to drive to upstate New York and stop in the Catskills pause. Take a bathroom break. Have lunch. Then I'm going to get back in the car and we're going to go further north or whatever. You see what I mean? Sure. Does that help? Because saying there's no end is kind of, it feels overwhelming. Kind of. It does. Yes. Yes, because of everything like developing the character and then what about these possible interactions and then, yes, the story is in. Yeah. It does feel infinite, but that's very calming to know. Just write a beginning, middle, end, and then. Sure. Yeah. Like, pretend you know. It doesn't have to be the perfect one. It just has to be good enough to get you started, you know? Sure. Okay. You know? And as a practice, let's all work on or continue to work on telling ourselves the narrative that helps us get through the day. You know what I'm saying? Because there are many narratives out there and a lot of the narratives that people want to emesh us in are designed to help us like feel like, I don't know. Oh, right? I mean, that's part of the programming plan to make you feel shitty. You know? So you, I mean, I'm not saying put your head in the sand and pretend that things aren't happening, but I'm saying just we'll continually work on framing things in such a way that we're framing it in a way that will help us get through the day. You know? That's kind of a mental trick. For example, you're going, oh my God, I'm developing ideas. Don't stop. There's no end. You know what? Okay. Okay. How about there is an end point. I decide what the end of the story is. It's my story. I'm telling it. You know what? This is a story that you have control over. Maybe you go on the news and you look at the news and maybe you don't have control over what's going on in Oregon. You know? But you have a certain amount of control about what's going on in your story. This is your story, Emmanuel. Okay? Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. Great question, though. I think that's very helpful to many people. It's helpful to me just to remember, what can I, what are the things that I can do something about and how can I frame the narrative in a way that's helpful to my process instead of unhelpful and disturbing? Yes. Right? Yes. Okay. Good question, though. Thank you for asking. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. It looks like we have Annalise, I think was on deck. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Hey. Hi. Hi. So I'm working on, I've been like chewing on the idea of this play for a while, and it's about museum workers who are organizing. Okay. And I have like, like the last couple of plays I just wrote, I had like a major block, like in the winter when I was pretty depressed. And then I found kind of a way out of it through a lot of like, a lot of free rights and a lot of handwriting. And it was very like serially and like hippie-dippy and like very woo-woo. And this play feels like not that it's totally foreign from that, but it, it's not as, it has a larger structure and like, and it involves other systems and where the other ones were kind of more individualist. And I feel like there are like three kind of ways I'm approaching it of like, I'm familiar with like labor organizing in one sphere of like grad students, but I'm not as familiar with like, what does it mean to be doing that in a museum? And also like, I'm not as familiar with art history. So I'm like, okay, I want to like learn about those things. And I want to be outlining because like I can eat, I can like, I can picture like how these events, like, like it feels like there's a lot of nitty gritty to defining like how the strike in this story would work. What would need to, what would need to happen. I feel like there are a lot more cases in this play where an audience would be like, I don't believe that. And, but I want to remain kind of open to the sort of like, free writing, like a lot of like handwriting sort of thing. And I've had trouble being like, okay, I have a feeling I have to do, like, I have to do some of these, like I can do them sequentially, or like, I can do a bit of each, but I'm having trouble being like, which hand do I put in which bucket first? Right, right, right. Okay, that's great. That's great. And it's really great that you, you know, you had some difficulty, you know, last year or whatever, and you sort of worked your way through it, you know, that's really good. Remind yourself of that, you know, you know, sometimes if I, when I have difficulty, I know how to get through it. Now, right, I do some free writing, I do some woo shit, I do some hippie shit, definitely do some hippie shit. Those hippies, those are some smart motherfuckers, man, right. They got through a lot of shit, and they've given us a lot of tools as, as a lot of people who were like, you know, back in the way back, right. They came up with some tools. So definitely very, very smart. Okay, so I, I wonder, would it help to divide your like, how long is your writing, how long every day can you spend writing? I have a lot of time now. I'm trying to, I've become really disciplined with like morning pages, but and I'm working on getting more disciplined with like, then setting aside time for like, writing for specific place. So right now I'm trying to hit like, at least an hour a day. Okay, an hour a day, great, which includes the pages you're writing in the morning or not. Different, separate. An hour a day, great. Okay, so if you did like 30 minutes, like half and half, havesies, could you do your morning pages, then you do 30 minutes of research, set your timer, you know, hopefully you have a timer that's not your phone. But if you don't, that's okay, just use your phone, set a timer, 30 minutes or maybe 25 minutes of research, then you give yourself five minutes to like, stop and pick up the next task, which is 25 minutes of writing or outlining, right? Okay, or free writing or whatever you, whatever you want, writing. If you want to outline, great. If you want to free write, great. If you want to free write about a character, great. If you want to think about character development or whatever you want to do. And so you're spending your writing time, you're dividing it in half. Okay, and that extra five minutes on either side is between the, the research and the outlining, you know, you can sort of chill and sort of gradually, you know, get into the next phase of your writing. And then the last five minutes, you can maybe look over some stuff and think about what you're going to do tomorrow, the next day, you know, is that helpful kind of do both, do both, do both. No, that's super helpful. Thank you. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Just do both. You just, obviously you don't do them at the same time. You do them one, you do one, and then you do another one. And then every day you've done a little bit along the way, right? Right? Oh, cool. That's great. Great. How fun. Great. Sounds like a great project. Good luck with it, Jeff. Thank you, Annalise. Next up we have Ben. Hey, Ben. How you doing, bro? Hey, how are you? How are you? Um, so I was actually initially nervous to ask this question. I was like, I'm not going to ask it. But then you started talking about hippie shit. And I was like, okay, wait, this sounds like a safe space to be able to ask this question. Um, so one thing that I've been finding, you know, in my creative process, because I'm working on a couple of different things, is that when I actually consume cannabis, which I mean, I just started using in the quarantine part of the pandemic to help manage anxiety, I never used it. And it literally got to a point where I was like, well, if I'm going to die of COVID, I at least want to see what it's like to be high. But through using edibles, I then learned that I had been dealing with anxiety my whole life, and it was actually helping me to experience life as a normal person who don't have anxiety. So connecting it to like being a writer, it feels like, like I have, you know, all of my stories and my ideas, but I found like when I've used an edible, like things flow so freely, even to the point where now I make sure I have my phone near me when I get high, because like, I'm able to hear the endings of plays, I'm able to hear like, you know, a new musical number and stuff like that. And so, and I've even been, I've learned enough about how to microdose a particular brand to be able to have a writing session. What I guess I'm nervous now is, is this going to be the only way I'm able to write things? Is this going to be the only way I'm able to create? Because I've seen so many creative people, so many comedians, so many actors who may start with something. And then, you know, they unlock their gift and they unlock their funny. And then it can turn into like, you know, years and years of, you know, other things. And so I guess I've just been, I'm concerned because right now I see so many, so many cool things developing within my material and things I've shared with, like, oh my God, I love that. And I've been like, oh, I wrote it when I was hot. You know what I'm saying? Like even a song that I wrote, again, on an edible going to buy chili cheese fries was licensed by the US Embassy, the US Department of State to be used as a, as a teaching tool to teach kids English across the world. And I'm just nervous now, like, am I only able to achieve that level of progress from things that I create? I was just curious, like, you know, any opinions or advice that anyone may have, because it's, you know, it's kind of like a, I don't know, it's like, you know, I feel like as creators, we're also kind of connected to something spiritual. And that's where we kind of are able to pull things from and make up these things that already exist. We just kind of like, tell the story of it that's within us. But I'm just nervous that I don't want this to be a crutch for my creativity. Is what I'm asking making sense. Right, right, right, right. No, I hear you, Ben. It's a good question. I mean, you know, it's like, I mean, since where do you live? And what's, do you live in New York City? No, no, no, I'm in Detroit, Michigan. It's very recreational. It was very legal. Okay, it's legal. Okay, great. So that's great. So no, what's great is you're not breaking the law. If you were drinking a glass of Chardonnay, Ben, you know what I mean? And you'd like, wow, you know, when I drink a glass of Chardonnay wine, you know, white wine, my writing's a lot easier. Well, you're doing, you're consuming a legal substance in a quantity that's legal. You know, you could turn it around all the way around or all the way inside out and say that maybe your creativity is a crutch to alleviate your anxiety. You know, I mean, we can find lots and lots of ways to be anxious about things that are going in the way that we want them to go. So I would say, you know, you've expressed some concern about it leading to other things. Be mindful of that and talk to that, about that with your health professional providers. Yes, I have a therapist, I know that. I'm not looking for that yet. I didn't mean to imply that. I just meant like, I want you to know, it's a concern. It is a real concern. It's great that you're voicing it. I'm thrilled that you're having success in your writing. And we all want to be mindful that, you know, if like, because some people, you know, have to go like for a 10 mile run before they can write anything. So the 10 mile run every day becomes a crutch. You could, you know, right, they have to have their run, or they have to have their coffee, or they have to go walk their dog, or they have to read the news, you know, we all have these things that we do. So I would say that it's a valid concern and just keep an eye on it. You know, I think it's really great that you're keeping an eye on it. Like, hmm, wouldn't want this to become a problem, you know, but just like the person who drinks a glass of Chardonnay. If a year from now they're hitting like two bottles a day, then we're like, you know, keep your eye on it. But keep, I would say continue to use it. It's a legal substance, you know, you know, and Chardonnay is, you know, I mean, you could drink Chardonnay, but good for you. Good for you for finding a way to get to the next day and not hurt anybody along the way. Good for you. Yay, right? Yeah. Thank you. Good for you. Thank you, Ben. Looks like we have a question from Nia. You should be able to unmute. How are you? Good, good. I have a question as it pertains to writing dialogue. Okay. More specifically, just when it comes to like modern language, I hate dialogue that is really, it just seems forced and like unnatural. More specifically, you know, I'm black, I'm from Detroit. And like, how do, like there's just a lingo that we use, but I don't want to write things that are like, that are referencing like black cultures lingo and it sounds in a way that is like trying to explain who we are versus just like writing from the vantage point of like realism, how people actually speak and how they communicate. Right, right, right. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think, I think so, because, you know, we can, we can, you can be very specific about how the community that you want to represent wherever they are, wherever they're from, how folks sound, right? And then are you concerned that what they're saying won't be understood by an audience? I'm not concerned. I just want to make sure that it's like authentic because I've been like really making sure that like, I'm not writing to explain a community. I'm writing to literally reflect and like mirror this community. And I'm in a way I'm also writing for that community. I'm like, I'm not writing to, I hope this makes sense. I'm not writing so that the person that's from outside can like learn more about like this Detroit area, but more so just in a way that really, really, really reflects that area. But I find that in a lot of things that I've read, or things that I've watched on TV that have reflected, you know, Detroit, I feel like the language is just so much more forced and I don't know how to make it natural. Oh, oh. So how much of your play have you written? So I'm actually not a playwright. I write more fiction, but I'm looking to like venture into playwriting. And I think I feel like the dialogue is a part of me that is just like really, really intimidating. Oh, okay. Okay. So you're reflecting your community, you want to be authentic, you know, don't worry about how they sound on TV, because that's a whole, you know, that's a whole another thing. I would just say, you know, know what story you want to tell. You want to tell a story about ABC? Go ahead and tell that story. Write how you think the people would sound. It's kind of sounds simple, but it kind of is that simple, especially if you are from that community. You know, write how people sound if it sounds forced, don't worry about it. That's what rewriting is for. And like we were talking to Emanuel about, you know, you write a play just so you know, I mean, it's a little different from experience of writing a novel, because I've written both. And a novel, you work with an editor once you have a, in the way I did, you work with an editor once you have a draft, you know, a play, you get actors in the room, you're, and some of them might not be from Detroit, some of them might not understand what you're talking about, you know, but you have to, so you have to be the one who knows what's authentic. And so you're working with those actors to maintain that authenticity of the language of the dialogue that you've written. But it's a living thing, you know, a play is a living thing. It's constantly changing until opening night when it's not, it's set, you know. So I would just go ahead and write a girl, you've written, you've written novels, short stories, that kind of thing, just be clear on what story you want to tell and, and write it. And you know, you'll, you'll rewrite it and you'll get it, but become more authentic as you rewrite it. And more specific. Sure. But good luck with it. It sounds, it's a wonderful thing to be doing. Thank you. Sure. Thank you, Nia. We have about five minutes left if anyone else has a question. All right. It looks like we have a final question from Ben. Hey, Ben. Ben again. Yeah. Well, I guess that was, we were just sitting there. I know this has been something that is being discussed more and more, especially kind of connected to the current writer strike, but I was just curious as it relates to AI and using the, the various like chat box and stuff like that to be able to help with the creative process. I, so I had a friend because I was really anti, you know, initially because I was, it's taking, you know, the, and I was scared of it, but she showed me how to use it to kind of like be more efficient with my time. So where, you know, I now use it to be able to help give me some warm up writing prompts. So that way I'm not sitting there for the first 30 minutes of my writing session trying to think how to start, but I can like get started a little bit. But I know some people are saying you're cheating, you know what I'm saying? Like, or it's coming, you know, to take the jobs out. I was just curious, like any thoughts, advice, or, you know, where, where are you finding kind of yourself in the midst of like the AI, because it kind of feels like, you know, smartphones, like we got to either learn how to use it or, you know, it's coming whether we like it or not. So I was just curious about right, right, right, right. No, I think it can be helpful for some people doing some kinds of, of writing, you know, sounds like your friend is real smart and she sounds like she's giving you cool ways to help it, you know, help it help you. A friend of mine was playing around with it and they said, write a, write a scene in the style of Susan Lori Parks. It was hysterical. I was like, ooh, I'm glad I didn't write that. I'm glad I didn't write it. But, you know, so it's kind of funny. I'm like, so what are we, what are we trying to do, you know? I don't know. It makes me wonder what, why write at all? You know, why are we writing? Why do we write? Is it so we can make a product to sell it to make money and win prizes? If so, AI is great. You know, it's like you're an accountant. You know, people use whatever it's called, TurboTax or those fabulous, fabulous, brilliant programs to get your taxes done so you can have more time to binge watch the show that you really want to see. Hooray. You know what I'm saying? Great, use TurboTax and it's accurate. Wow. And why do we write? Why do we create at all? Is it to make a product so that we can sell it so that we can pay the rent sometimes? Or is it to, more importantly, is it to have an opportunity to commune with the spirit? You know what I mean? It's like, it's like kissing. Hurry, I got this new way to kiss. Now I can go on to do something. You know, I mean, what are we doing it for? You know, so I think it's a great tool and like any wonderful tool, it has many awesome uses. And but you have to ask yourself, why am I writing? Why am I creative person? What am I in this business for? You know, and the more you answer that question, then you'll see if that wonderful tool is helpful or not. Are you in a hurry? You know what I'm saying? You know, personally, I find it really interesting and exciting that it can do that. And I find the process of facing my process and wrestling with the angels very interesting. And if it's going to make the wrestling easier, so I don't have to wrestle, cool, cool. But I'm interested in the fact that I got to wrestle with the angels, man. I really appreciate hearing you call it that wrestling with the angels because I kind of like say something similar like that. So it just helps me to feel like, you know, less, you know, I guess, crazy in my head. I mean, that's the thing. At the end of the day, we each have our reasons why we do this, you know, and maybe there are different reasons on different days. But so, you know, and we'll, you know, but we'll use the tools that are available in the modern society, whether it's a computer or a, you know, a keyboard or, you know, remember when people, oh my gosh, you're using a, you don't have to retype every single page. Oh my gosh, you're cheating. You know, these, these tools are the modern or the, these, these days are incredibly helpful. And we ask ourselves, so why am I do, why do I do this and not, why am I, why am I doing this and not something else, you know, you know, it's like making music, you know, you can push a button and sound like you can play an instrument or you can actually sit down with your guitar or your violin or your piano keyboard or your voice or whatever, it actually make those sounds, which is, which is, which I think has some importance not to devalue or dismiss those wonderful technical logical advances. It's 602, Paypal. Yes, it is. Thank you so much, Ben, for that question. Thanks for the wonderful questions. See you next time. Lolly, I'll get back to you on the dates. Great. Remember your questions, people, and we'll answer them next time. Yes, we will. Check the websites for future dates coming soon. Thank you. Thank you, Lolly. Thanks, folks. Okay.