 We're glad to know you're still there. It's so unfortunate we couldn't bring you the papers today, but the papers are looking good. So find one, grab one, and see if you can see what the headlines are. We're moving from glory to glorious cities in some sections, while in some others we still need to grow a lot. But right now, we're going to be looking at the security situation as it concerns 2024. What are the things that need to be put in place for security to be top notch as we enter into the new year? Remember that today is 30th of October 2024. If it were one of those other months, it would have been the last day of the month, but this is October, so we're still having one more day. And then we are entering November. Before you know what is happening, then it is Christmas, and then it is the new year. We begin to make resolutions that sometimes in the middle of January, we just jettison and continue to live our lives because of the situation and the reality on ground. The other day I was passing through a street, and that was early October, and they were already doing Christmas decorations, and one of the people inside the car that we took was like, oh boy, it's December that time already, because once we begin to see this, you know that the responsibilities that come with December or the end of the year are upon you. What have I really done? So instead of rejoicing that you're going to have Christmas, some people are afraid that the time is coming too soon, but hey, it will take 365 days for Christmas to come after the last one. But life happens, and we do hope that we are going to round off this year in style. Okay, we're going to be talking security, like I said, and we are glad to be joined by a security expert, Mr. Augustin Agwe Ega. Good morning, and welcome to the program, Mr. Agwe. Good morning. It's my pleasure. Okay, for a while now, the present administration, in fact, every administration has been trying hard to make sure that they make the arsenal of our security agencies to be richer, because sometimes we have firepower from the bandits, from the terrorists, from all the people that do unwholesome things, being superior to what we have as a country, you know. So we try to upgrade and all that. But as we have seen in the past, it doesn't seem to be making so much impact on improving the security situation in our country. So today we're concentrating on what, beyond the weapons that we buy, should the security agencies, the government, and whoever is concerned be doing to make sure that our security is better. So we're looking at 2024. The new administration has just won the case in the Supreme Court, so it's time to concentrate. What are those things that they need to concentrate to make sure that security is top notch in 2024? Let's begin there. Thank you, Nambu. I think so far the current administration has been looking at every area to better the Nigerian society. We should understand that the social welfare also has a lot of impact in the security of the nation. If you are having difficult times in the nation, it will also reflect on the security situation. So as much as they plan to buy complicated arms, they should also work hard in trying to revive the economy of Nigeria. That will go well to even bring down the security situation to a very low level. And as we said, it is not out of place for them to also buy new arms, especially when we look at security. We look at the national security and also look at the international security. These are external factors that affect the national security as well. Currently, we have the Israel, Israel and Palestinian arms conflict going on. And we know that this also has an impact in the international and national security of Nigeria. Why? Because some people who perceive Israel to be a Christian state and the Palestinian and Muslim state, especially I'm talking about the modern aspects, there will run to quick conclusions that it's a religious conflict. And what we would see in the North that you see people carrying arms by any means in the disguise of terrorism and all that to start fighting innocent souls and killing people. We have that experience when we had the Islamic state in the current Iraq. We know that that also inflames even the ice swap in Nigeria. We also have an incident that we, like what we have currently now also at Nigeria. The ministry government is in Nigeria. We know that they will not take no sense from any criminality. So it means that they will be treating all criminal issues. And if Nigeria is in heaven, they will find themselves in Nigeria. So as much as they buy arms, I also feel that it's important for the government to strengthen its border control. Immigration, the custom authority that should do a lot to control the border movement. Because this is where all the threats will come in. Okay. I don't know. Intelligence gathering has always been a problem in Nigeria. I think that's what is perceived, that it's been a problem in Nigeria. If you agree to that accession, what do you think should be done to get this intelligence gathering to where it should be? Because I don't see any security succeeding without proper intelligence. Well, you cannot deploy. You cannot deploy a security manpower without intelligence. Intelligence is something that it goes around the cycle, like especially the DSS are inside of the internal intelligence. And of course, every other law enforcement, they have intelligence units. And so they play a critical role in ensuring that strategies are built in that will be caught effective. So intelligence cannot be ruled out. As much as you break that, it should also be increased. And of course, they are doing a lot. There are so many threats, issues that even they don't bring to the public knowledge. But they just, to avoid fear, to avoid panic, they just try to kill it within their own... The attempts of intelligence gathering are considered a Nigerian intelligence that they are very strong. The DSS and all of them, immigration and the customs and the civil defense, all of them, they work very hard. They ensure they get included in the military. So they share all this information, this speech within themselves. So that is already something that they think. But it is not enough, unless it's actionable. When they receive this, they should not just receive it. They should be kept to use it. Okay, maybe we were wrong by thinking that. Because since they don't bring some of these things to public knowledge, they might be doing their work diligently. The only proof, or depends on where you're standing, is that we see situations where... Because anything that has to do with security or has to do with arrest is also a security issue. We see so many times where people get arrested on very frivolous things and then get detained for so long and then use that time when they are detained to do investigations. For a people that have a good intelligence unit and a good intelligence network, this shouldn't be the case. So we tend to feel that the intelligence gathering is not good enough. That's why things like this happen. Or are there some cases that you do not need intelligence before arrest and you arrest before you begin to gather intelligence and information to prosecute that person? There is no arrest without a background information. And for the fact that a person has been arrested does not make the suspect. He's still a suspect. He has not been convicted. So it depends on the background information that the law enforcement will receive that they will commit to an arrest. And when they arrest, it is still not out of place to ensure that they do accurate due diligence because they can release such a suspect. So whether it's a suspect in their own next, it's only and I think in every guideline, they have their rules of engagement. And these are rules of engagement I think we should try to understand from the public angle. Rules of engagement is something they know within themselves just like you have in every organization. They follow their rules of engagement before they commit to any arrest. So okay, now a lot of people are saying that devolution of powers is a very, very critical thing if we need to move on. There are some things that have been concentrated in the center so much so that it is affecting the other parts of the center like security. There's so much that is concentrated on or in the center that it's difficult for states and local governments to do the needful when it comes to security. That's what so many people have been saying. Is that a true assertion or assessment of the situation? And if it is, what can be done differently to give more powers to the state or what kind of powers do the states need for them to be effective in tackling the security situation in their domains? Yes, I think one of our programs would be COVID and I will still emphasize that both parties from the state to the federal we should not accept that as a public. Because every state government, they really have a budget to run security. Security is a business. But some governments see it as a very trivial issue. It is a business unit just like any other thing they handle. In fact, it's the most serious business. But we go without it, nothing can try. And I said it earlier. I said in some, I know the former governor of Cardinal State have a particular commission which he dedicated to security and safety. For you to treat things seriously and commit budget. I don't see why this federal and the state government cannot form a commission that has to handle security and safety in their state. Because that is a sign of due diligence. When they start having this department or a unit that will handle security and bring its professionals that will help them draw out blueprints that will handle security in their state. The federal government will buy in because they are not going to work differently. But whereby they believe that the kind of system that they are creating right now is the system that existed in the military rule. The security structure is the system that existed in the military administration. We are team holding it. And we said we are practicing democracy. If truly, like you said in the other angles, if they have to make secrecy work, then that you see it that we are in a democratic government, then you begin to release some of these things that are necessary for the state government to run. And when these things are committed to the federal and to the state government, then you have a platform that they will enable security in their federal domain. It's not enough to act as to make a complaint that the federal government is not doing this. What platform do they have that they are handling security in a manner that will bring progress to their state? That is the question we should have for all of them. But you said some things should be released to the state. What are some of those things that the state needs that are still being held by federal government? Well, like you said, some state governors would say that I will use the case study of Ben Westage because I don't want to go too far. Let's use case studies of things we have seen. In Ben Westage, we saw the former governor crying out the first time, the first of the major mass murder they had in the state. He was crying for the former president, Guari, to come to his aid. While he was going out of government, there was another one that happened that was serious where almost a community was born down and it was still reliant on the government that it should declare state of emergency. So from this, there are some things that we cannot know from our own angle that it has a public who will not know the arrangement and how they interface with the federal government. The governors know this very well. And so when they are passing this blame, we should also ask the federal government if you look into it, since it's a commander in chief of the armed forces, if you look at those angles, those areas that they are complaining that they need this, they need this touch that the whole state government has to rely on federal government to send armed forces in order to combat fear with a local community issue that normally it will raise up its own firepower to save the people. They say, like what I've heard from the past, there is always a complaint that the local authority, I mean the law enforcement and the military authority will say the federal government have not given order. Even in the space of violence, they will say the federal government have not given order. So there is nothing they can do about it. So I think that is the major problem. Or see the federal government release, give an order, that look that should be a state of emergency or the military should finish their actions to help the government, the governors, there will be nothing done at that moment. So I want in my own thinking, I think a spot bureaucracy should be removed because it has to do with human life. Every minute they will wake, people will die. Every minute they delay, people are dying already. So that you remove that kind of bottleneck and allow things to flow. The federal government and the state government, they know what is happening so that you have up in that angle a safe life. Okay, some people, while talking about the fact that the state government should have more powers when it comes to controlling the security in their domains have been afraid that sometimes when this power is given to the state government, it will be abused. That's why some of them even say state police is not going to be a good thing because it will be just at the messy of the state governor. We have talked about this before, but we are entering into 2024 so we have to re-emphasize the things we support and the things that we think there should be a review in our hearts and the hearts of the people who make policy. So what do you think about state police as we are entering 2024 and how do you think this can be controlled? Yes, based on the crisis level we are hard. We are hard and very wasted. I will see you that. And some others say that we have issues regarding insecurity. Nigeria is a federal state and we are practicing federalism. I think this federalism was copied from another nation to Nigeria. If we are practicing federalism, we should practice federalism. We should not be partial. It should be complete federalism. If we look at the state of the U.S. where we have some of these ideas we borrow to run our government, they have levels of security structure. They have the world that works at the local level. They have the state police and they have the federal police. The FBI, the CIA and all of that even to the sheriff at the local level. They have them all working in sync in order to save Ghana's state. And when you look at that state with so much population and with the largest state they have they have been able to protect their environment. So if we are practicing federalism it should be completely should not be partial. I am in support of the state police. But when we have laws of engagement like I said we have rules and regulations that will guide them. It's not something you just implement without some guidelines. Some rules, some top rules to be followed. And when we follow laws, we follow guidelines. I'm sure they will achieve the same thing with what the foreign nations are doing for their people. What do you think should be the role of private security outfits as we enter into 2024? Because for a time now it seems as if private security outfits are not doing optimally. They can contribute more but we are not seeing that much. Are there bottlenecks that are preventing them or are there things that need to be done so that when we enter into 2024 we can utilize everybody that can offer some bit of security to us in our country. What role can private security outfits play as we enter into a new year? Yes, the role that the private security can play first of all I would say that normally in the Nigerian police force they would tell you that they have deployed all their men from high dignitaries or celebrities and some of these people. I can tell you that in the private security we have a lot of integrated ex-servicemen in the private security sector who are trained in the use of arms. And so we want them to begin to release that kind of executive protection or close protection or bodyguarding. Some of those kinds of protection duties that normally the police are handling and they see some of them as being carrying back for women and all of that. I think the private sector has a lot of non-executive people people who also have a background in law enforcement criminology that should handle some of those rules and release the men, especially the Nigerian police force to go back to very sensitive duties that they can have. They can have enough manpower to man those places that they are having vulnerability. That is one thing. Another thing the private security should be engaged is training and retraining. We have a lot of cute people, some are professors, some are PhD holders. It's not like in those days where it was a profession that was meant for dropouts but I think it has highly improved. We have PhD holders, we have professors all in the private security. So in terms of training and retraining they can help even at the national level and another capability that the private sector has that will help the national security is their widespread. They are widespread. They are in every street, they are in every location. There is no place that they don't have. They are not printing. Definitely they have a lot of intelligence that will help the government 40. So that you try to make them comfortable and find an enabling environment where they could share intelligence with them. This is another part. In terms of security systems and technology we are talking about, sorry I'm using that. The private security is talking about this. They are very knowledgeable in the latest technology that could help the national security to improve. Not just the hard-coded manpower thing they are doing. There is this convergence in security now is the in thing. Security convergence is the reason everywhere in the world. You cannot win the battles by just using manpower. You need to include advanced technology. The private security are knowledgeable in this advanced technology and configuration. They can help them to build this into their operations. Secondly, or luckily, the government should try that most businesses should be mandated or there should be a compulsory rule that enables them to put security on the ground. Most businesses don't have private security unless maybe they have a breach in their security system like stealing or loss of life. You see them rushing and calling on a security company to call. They are far as human life in any premises, in any premises, in any location or any business. Private security should be engaged. So the law enforcement, especially the civil defense, should help on this to implement this. This will all help in the national security development. Yeah, but the gun laws in Nigeria do not allow so many people to handle guns. How can they be of real help if they cannot handle guns? These people that you're talking about, the private security outfits and the personnel. Is it just for gathering of information? Because, for instance, if a school is being raided by bandits or kidnappers to take some people and the security personnel that are there are unarmed, there is little or nothing that they can do to protect these people. Will you also advocate that these people be armed? Yes, you see, when we are breaking from, I think we want to remain in the colonial period. When the police officers then were giving buttons, they were carrying buttons because there was no violence in the country. So today, when civil defense came on board, they were not armed. But along the line, just to watch your picture, they found out that there is need for them to be armed based on their rules. The private security is always a large business enterprise with several departments, several units. I think the unit that will handle close protection, that you did a guideline for them. From the national security, if any organization, any private security will like to buy into their idea of close protection, they should directly and secretly supervise by the national security. So this will help. We are not saying that they should give guns to every private security officer. Whoever that is capable and have gone through the training, they should be trained from their own level to handle weapons in that area. So that they can release the Nigerian police of that duty or they can release them of that duty, allowing them to carry out safety national assignment. They should not be allowed or they should not be armed without training. They should be trained. They should be documented. They should be a deep background investigation on those that will be doing that kind of duty because they are going to carry out the national law enforcement. So there should be a thorough background including biometric checks so that they will be deterrent. Those that will go into it, they know that they are closely monitored and I'm sure they will not be able to do anything because the federal government and even the state government or the national, they have their data. That is one thing they can do. Okay. So I do understand that security, this is the final one. I do understand that security has to do with the person securing and the person who is being secured. So that's the people. We've been talking to people who need to secure others and let's talk to the people that we need to secure or the security people need to secure. That's the ordinary citizen. As we go into a new year, I know that this is still October but before you say Jack Robinson, we're in 2024. So what should the people, what should the role of the people be like because we all desire this security to be better than how it is now. So what role can the people play to bring this about finally? Okay. We seem to have lost the audio from Mr. Ega but he has been sharing with us what to look out for, what we need to do as we enter into 2024 to make sure that security is better than now. Well, we'll just take a break. We thank him in absentia. We'll just take a break now and when we return, we'll be talking about NLC issues. Stay with us.