 Ladies and gentlemen, a very intelligent Irishman, a very charming Irishman, but literally every day of our lives we are trying to beat this man for all of the money. Head odds maker at Fando, the sports bookie book of Fando Sports Book, John Sheeran. What's going on John? Not a lot, but that's certainly a big introduction, so I appreciate all the support, it's exciting for sure. Well personally I think you're a good guy, professionally though I want you to lose terribly every single day. So I am kind of torn, and every time I see you talk on Hammer, you do fantastically and you're rather transparent, which I don't think a lot of people are used to, especially when it comes to sports books, because it is, hey, you versus us. Ultimately it's supposed to be gaming, it's in the gaming world, you're supposed to be playing against each other. So naturally you're an enemy, but good dude, so we're excited to talk to you right now. Thank you for joining us John. Yeah, happy to be here Pa. Look historically it's been an adversarial relationship, like you said, it's us against you, and I think Tone had a lot of doubts about me being transparent. He was like, I don't know whether to trust what you're telling me or doubting, but it's good that I finally outgrown that show, because this is the big time for sure. Whoa, whoa. Listen, Hammer Don did not deserve that. Sorry Tone. Yeah, yeah, well it's true. No, it's right, it's true. So you still go on Hammer Don, or no, you still won't go on Hammer Don anymore, you graduated or what? I think I've graduated Pa after today for sure. Tone reached out to me a few months ago, he's like, we should do a section every week, and I was like, I'm more than happy to, and then I never heard from him since. Football season ended, football season ended, it was football, it was football. Yeah, yeah, anyways, and they're also beating the dog shit out of you, I think in the first half of MLB Baseball, and they're enjoying all that, so they might not want to ruffle any feathers. But anyways, your conversations with them have been so electrifying, which is why I'm excited to chat with you. Who do you know, what do you know about the first overall pick in the draft? Because this was startling numbers, we saw this literally as we woke up this morning, on Friday, okay, Aiden Hutchinson, minus 175 to go number one overall, has been the favorite to go number one overall by everybody since this entire draft season has begun. Minus 175, pretty good favorite, by the way, that's pretty good, feel pretty good about it. Trevon Walker plus 165. Now we wake up this morning, Trevon Walker minus 155 to go number one overall, Aiden Hutchinson now plus money to go number one overall. What the hell happened, who do you know, and how is this information figured out and calculated in your end of this entire world? So just to the last point first, right, the hardest thing for us is to form a really strong opinion, have a lot of confidence in the market and the price that we offer on any of these selections. The limits are reasonably low, our confidence is equally low when it comes to being certain around what these positions will do and where certain teams will look to, Pat. So when we initially launched this market back in March and added Trevon Walker, he was 30 to one to be the number one pick in the draft this year. As you said, Hutchinson's been a strong favorite since then, but overnight we saw a real rush of really what I would say is respected money for Trevon Walker. And normally with these markets, when you see a rush of money like this, it tends to tell a bigger story than even the bets themselves. So I would pay a lot of respect to the idea that Trevon Walker will be the first pick on Thursday. Who's respected money? I'm sorry, Aiden was about to go there. Respective money is just because they talk about sharks or sharps, I'm sorry. And in your eyes, you guys know who the sharps are, you have to know who the sharps are. It's like, oh, these motherfuckers seem to know something more than anybody else. And you're watching, watching. It's like, at what point do you have to balance that reaction to them? Is that always? Yeah, I think it's about knowing how strong your opinion is and how valid it is, Pat. And an NFL week, as I said to tone on that secondary show that you have all season, all season long, all season long. You know, we're happy to stand up against the sharps where we feel like we have an advantage, where we feel like we have a strong opinion and understand where they're coming from. The draft and the number one pick and what certain teams will do in certain spots is certainly not one of those positions. So like I said, we'll pay more attention to the money that we see, the information that we garner from those bets when they come in. And to answer your question, who the sharps are, these are accounts that historically have proven over time that they're able to beat us and win money off us. And that's effectively this type of money that we saw for Trayvon Walker last night. Cool. So obviously you have a very important position there in doing what you're doing. Like how do they safeguard against someone trying to corrupt you? Like come in there and try to blackmail you, try to do anything to change all these lines? Because we know how much money is at stake here with especially what you're doing. Just to see, are you taking a lot and take your tests every month? Like what's going on? Well, especially with some of those juicies. I mean, some of the shit you've been giving out. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a job proposition from AJ first. And we can talk about that offline AJ. Maybe that's the right way to tackle it. We'll do. Look, look, it's important, right? Integrity is important to all of us. We have regulators that monitor this. We monitor ourselves from a financial perspective. But I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way is for the price, I'm interested in anything you have done. How long have you been doing this? How long have you been in the odds making game? Because it's not easy. Obviously we, we, uh, we all from certain areas had friends who ran books or somebody else that ran books. We've basically all known somebody to do it. But do it at the level that you have to do right now. Biggest book in the world, I believe. Fandalsport is the biggest book in the world. You're the head odds maker. How long have you been doing this? And what is, how many of yous are there out there, you think? Like, do you have respect for other odds makers? Do you watch what some other people do? And you're like, uh, maybe we should do that. Is there only a few of yous you think out there? Yeah, look, I'm lucky. It's, uh, it's obviously a good position to be in with a brand like Fandil to be able to express the opinions that we have and not get heat every week when we lose money. So how long have I been doing it? I don't know, part far too long, longer than my Twitter handle will indicate how old I am. But probably 15 to 20 years doing this overall. And in terms of respect, yeah, we've got a ton of respect for a lot of operators out there. A lot of the books that take opinion and form markets, certainly a lot of respect for what they do. We pay attention to what they do as well to help inform the decisions that we make. Who sets the tone you think the most? Do you feel like you're a part of that? Or does everybody else kind of, is it different? Like there's some bookmakers have a better read on baseball. And, oh, they better read on football at this department. Like, do you guys, do you think that's all kind of mutually understood amongst each other? Or is everybody trying to create their own line? They all just so happen to be pretty similar. A really good question. Like, I think we try to lead when it comes to odds making a want to back our own opinions. We want to build a team here across all of the core U.S. sports path that have a strong opinion of valid one. And we want people in Vegas to look at what Fandil are doing rather than the other way around. That's what we started to do a good job with. I think in football, the NFL and college and basketball too. We've got a bit of work to do to catch up on the other two core sports, but certainly encouraged. And that's certainly the end of the angle. So if you know anyone that's interested, be sure to send them my way. All right. By the way, we, we don't know anybody as of right now, but the hammered down boys have been beating your guys his ass pretty good. Do you like, do you keep track of that? You have to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the guys are doing an awesome job. The people that reach out to me and say, like, what a great job tone and gumpino do and all the boys. Yeah. It's too late. Too late to go back now. Yeah. To say sorry. Yeah. Bieber's just in town. He's on tour. Good tickets where it is, but I do believe it's too late to say sorry. The first five in MLB that the boys are hitting on. Is that that first half thing I think is what it's called right? Yeah. Do you monitor like, hey, we're making good money off of those. Those are a great bet. Is there bets on there that you get very worried about like, oh, these are tough to really set up tough to do because Fando has so many fucking bets. I don't know how you guys, you know, can stay on top of all of them, John. That's 100% right. We can't. Like there's a lot of opportunity there if you're selective, disciplined enough to pick out an edge that you might have and pound us on it. And I think the guys have done a good job with the first five. We have a new baseball model. So we're still learning how it works. And the next time we're looking for a head MLB trader, I know where to go. Gumpy. What do you got for John Sheeran? Anything sweet? Yeah. John, can we get some more footy super boosts on there? Some of the ones are just a little bit outrageous. Maybe we get some nice ones on there, huh? Yeah, 100%. You guys control those. So whatever you want, just shout and we'll be happy to facilitate. Smart. That's great news. That's very good news. Did you guys lose your ass on Tyson Fury knocking out Dillion White? Because I enjoyed that so much specifically because he came on the show. He's obviously incredibly entertaining and awesome. And he talked about his dream outcome, right? And he would knock him out. And before he even hits the ground, I leave. I'm at the bar as they're announcing that I'm the winner. And at that point, we're like, okay, so he is trying to knock this dude out for sure. You boosted that thing for us from minus 135 to plus 110. And I'm not saying that it felt like a lot of people took this bet, but Tyson Fury is very popular. And if any of the betting trends that you guys have shared with us rang true for this particular fight, it feels like this fight probably killed you guys a bit. Is that accurate? And what are the things that normally take you guys down? When a super favorite or a super popular does well, you guys just get fucking killed? Yeah, anything that Pat McAfee puts up, the wins usually kills us. So this one certainly fit into that criteria. Honestly though, like, he's an easy guy to root for, right? So I think everybody was motivated to get in behind him. And honestly, I think that bit of insight you got from him directly in that interview around his motivation to knock him out, I think that's insight that we could never be aware of. So actually think that you got a bit of value in the right price and then we boosted it even further. So all in all, it was a pretty good steal, a good interview. Like I said, everybody is easy to roll in behind Fury. And yeah, that was a pretty expensive one and made for a bit of a headache for me on Saturday evening, so I appreciate that. That's very not as good as Dylan White. John, as far as the NFL draft goes Thursday night, as far as handle and the amount of bets that'll come in through Fandle, like, is it typical to like an NFL playoff to NBA finals? What's the handle like for the NFL draft and how's it changed over the years? Yeah, it's certainly getting bigger, Tonya. What I would say is that the regulators are getting a little bit more comfortable, allowing us to do more with the product. We will in New Jersey, for example, trade it live as the event is going on, but with three picks behind. So after the first pick you can wager on the fifth pick and so on, so forth. So I think over time you'll see an evolution in how the product appears. We actually have like a version of Same Game Parley where you can parley three players to get picked in the top five, and it'll calculate that on the website as well. So I think some good innovation, some good focus, but a key event for us now we're getting to that stage in the season where everyone's paying for football to come back. This is a good stop in the calendar and excited to see what it does this year. Can you explain the regulators a little bit because we obviously catch heat whenever we promote something and it can't be in some state and I couldn't even imagine the amount of shit the Fando gets. You as a whole, you got to stay away from it. But there's regulators in every single state and they're not the same. It is not uniform. It is not universal. Some places won't allow some booze. Some places won't allow like a specific boost or whatever. Do you feel like as a whole it's getting easier to work with everybody? And how long do you think it is until the entire country is on board, even though that's probably way over your your pay grade, if I had to guess. Thanks, Pash. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate this. Oh, you're not a lobbyist. You're not a lobbyist. Are you? No. Yeah. They try to get me to do everything, including this show. So, yeah. Everything is in the realms of possibility. Look, you're right. It's really complex. It's difficult and different in every single state. We expect to be in probably 49 of the 50 states, Utah being the one that is going to be a challenge over the next decade or so. I think all of the regulators are at different stages in their comfort levels when it comes to sports betting. So, it's just something that we continue to work closely with them. They've had a tough remit. They get handed down legislation and have to rule over it. But overall, I think people are all rowing in the same direction pattern. It's certainly getting better, but our footprint getting bigger causes more complex issues around what we can offer in certain states. But like I said, that's certainly a work in progress. Yeah. I just assumed you weren't out there being the lobbyist in all these states. Like, Ohio has to agree on it, has to let it be out before January 2023 or whatever. So, everybody's assuming, like, by football season, Ohio would be off there. But from what I've been told, it's like, it's not as easy as that. Like, there is, especially, there's a bunch of politics involved basically everywhere. And that's kind of where the regulators come into, because they're appointed by the politicians. So, it's like, it's an interesting world right now. We're kind of blazing a trail, it feels like. And your main part of that should feel good, John. Yeah. It should feel good. Look at you. Look at you. I appreciate the props a bit like my headshot on your tweet earlier, Pat. They don't really like to send me public facing very often. I think I have a bit of a face, a face for radio is what I was told a long time ago. And I've fully bought in behind that. Well, we just wanted people to fully understand who we were talking to. We are talking to the sports ball. That's right. That is literally who we're talking to. No offense to you. I mean, although it was a very vanilla cast today. Yeah. Sure. That would have been, you know what I mean? What we did think about was, hey, this is who we're talking to. We were talking to these sports books. Makes it up. I hope you didn't take any offense to that. Go ahead, Connor. Yeah, John, do you have a group chat with all the other odds makers? And do you guys ever set lines that are just so run that you all feel like absolute clowns? And so you have to kind of lean on each other a little like, for instance, when the Brooklyn Nets came out as favorites to win the series of Celtics, and then it immediately got flipped. Were you guys all just like, wow, we were a bunch of Stooges? Or you just kind of realize that, you know, you guys were all wrong. That happens all the time. When you mentioned the WhatsApp group, I thought initially we were going to ask for an invite into it. You're more than welcome to join. I think it'd be pretty insightful to have some of you guys in there. But yeah, we get this. I was going to say we get this shit all wrong all the time. It's, you know, really difficult. Like Pat said earlier, we have to price so many markets over so many different sports with the same people. You know, we make plenty of mistakes for sure, but it's about learning from them and not repeating them as we move forward, I think. Did you say shit earlier? I think I might have. Don't say that on the show. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I'm going to get relegated back to Hammered Down. Once again, Hammered Down. Jesus. That's not a joke. It's not a joke. It's not a joke. Go ahead, Don. John, Tone mentioned that you guys have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit that you guys have a lot of markets for teams and positions specific where guys are going to go? Have you seen a lot of bets coming on that? And where do you have the most liability, you know, like outside of a quarterback getting picked by like the Packers in the first round? Yeah, good question. We have a lot of markets, particularly for the teams that are local to the areas that we're in, so I'll give you one bit of insight. The Jets I picked ten is something we're pretty interested in, a wide receiver. Potentially, somebody like Jameson Williams to go there, That's one that we're trying to keep a little bit on site and not trying to attract too much money on that That's obviously hey good spot like good spotlight on that I Didn't say that Tip of the door to go number two is certainly something that we've picked up a lot of heat on I think obviously massively dependent on what happens with the first pick in Jacksonville, but that's one that's certainly called a lot of a Lot of money. That's one of the biggest liabilities. We have over there The three days. Hey listen the people that maybe hadn't heard you on the great show that is hammered down You normally don't lie about this type of shit either because the natural thought here is oh, he's telling us that To bamboozle right really is but he's not this guy. He's not at all He's told the truth on hammered down numerous times much like at a high cost against Fandor. Yeah, he's Irish He's too nice this guy. You can ask him you can ask him tonight who he likes in the NBA for the playoffs And he'll tell you exactly what side the book likes to the yeah Who is the book very excited about this evening in this NBA playoffs like who can't win in your eyes? I don't know that we have a strong opinion at all. I think this is probably a game Yeah, I wouldn't have a strong opinion tonight at all to be honest I think Dallas have done a really good job on Utah Tree is about right obviously Luca coming back last week the poor story last night with the performance that he did I think is is strong and and that's probably our favorite of the three But not a strong not a night for a strong opinion. So I'm not going down on that ship on the big show today Hey, I respect it and I also like the fact that if you're just listening you don't get to see him He is clicking on things and he's literally just pulling up entire markets. Yeah right behind the screen right now It is awesome to watch go ahead foxy. Yeah, John. That's why I wanted to ask you What's the biggest sucker bet going right now because I've been taking these method of first basket? My money's gone at this point. Am I just an absolute sucker for that to a plus 7,000? How do you not take it? I have to how do you not? The only thing I would say to that foxy is you don't need any help You you found you found it on your own honestly markets like that. We've got so much over around in our favor It's really really difficult to even think about winning money over time. It's just a big big challenge Hey, what's the hardest sport to handicap for you? I Think for us Baseball or hockey age It's just one that we don't have the experience that we do for the other ones MBA and NFL Part of the reason we feel so good about the product is we've been looking at it and trading it pricing it for Almost 20 years for the other brands internationally. It was super important to our brands in Australia So we feel like we got a big jump on the industry with those two in particular So the other two are ones that we're kind of learning hiring a lot of local expertise The trading team has built out to about 50 individuals here and some of the guys are super smart Super enthusiastic and have really good opinions and that's what we want to encourage over time. I guess yeah What Nick gives out 45 hockey picks a night or whatever? Yeah, huh? I'm trying. I'm coming for you Johnny Yeah, Nick knows it's a weakness over there. We've been winning. I think a pretty there you go You guys on The cop they know that Vegas Dave obviously he gives out locks as well I mean, that's that's obviously something dump. He has last question for you here John We appreciate your time John. We've talked about this a few times How much money are you guys about to take in if the Nets got get knocked out tonight with the futures bets? Yeah, we were pretty aggressive with the Nets with the mess this season between Harden and Kairi and Obviously Durant failing a little bit or maybe a lot in the series is a big challenge Everybody still is willing to support him. He's such an incredible talent that it's not Unusual to see that and we've been raking in the cash as he's failed badly and Jason Tatum has taken over That's not I mean all right John. We appreciate you congrats on your success. Okay. Thank you, Pa Congrats, I mean it's fucking over literally everybody Well congrats on your success John. We appreciate you. You do a great job man. You're an incredibly cool Thank you for coming our show making time to come on our show as well as hammered on another great show John Thank you guys. I appreciate it Tony when parts finish me. I hope you to come back anytime What a life heal Good heel. Yeah, great great delivery great heel try here We've been doing the NFL in the NBA for about 20 years We feel pretty comfortable about everything over there because the overall organization flutter owns I think Europe's biggest book and Australia's bigger biggest book as well as Fandle So it's like unreal. They've been doing it a long long time in Europe. I think gambling was much more I think it was happening at a much higher rate or whatever Well, that's why it makes sense with like baseball too because like they they have cricket over there So they're not you know, like everyone watches the at the NFL But like they're they have they have their own baseball over there. So why would they be super sharp at it over here? So the first five gumpees like oh, welcome to America Dude, he's a good guy. He is I I've You know he I tried to talk shit to the book obviously like this is competitive. Hey, I'm trying to take your money I'm trying to beat you like literally that's because they don't own our show So we are just partners. So it was meant to be that way like hey I'm trying to take every dollar still so every win is a real genuine win from this company We're looking to make all the money from this in the book guy, you know the head book as soon as I met this dude I'm like, oh, you're super cool guy All right, listen, you just gotta do what you gotta do. I guess he's really smart though He is very good gambler. He gives out a lot of winners on hammer down Yeah, kind of a massive prick to hammer Don And good to know that whenever the superboos hit they're just getting absolutely round absolutely I get a couple pie graphs every once in a while or pie charts, whatever those are. Yeah, and it'll be from Fandle Hey, we just want to let you know what your boost just did. Okay Congratulations. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. Is he ever off the clock like that's a job I feel like you're never he's never done. Well, you gotta deal with Europe too, right? So that's that six hours ahead. I mean like in any kind of breaking news changes the lines If a player goes down all this stuff like you always have to be on top of it Yeah, he probably just lives his office probably his house. He probably just lives there, right? Yeah, probably that's a great office Oh, I can't imagine mattress to well up. No, I bet you he has a full Just like what AJ said probably waterbed. Yeah, probably like he's in the ocean That'd be cool But just like AJ said like that is a position where like if he was to leave probably a lot of money to be made For him as well. So he has to like he warrants Probably a pretty good life. Oh, he has how much money is being wagered against him at any given moment Well, and you just talked about them like being on all in all time think about the live Betting in New Jersey like if somebody goes second overall that they didn't think it was gonna go second overall or whatever And then they have to put up live odds for picks six that like it's gonna be insane