 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus if you have time for a first conversation this morning these are perhaps the toughest times to live in Nigeria. Apart from citizens, after enduring a year of petrol scarcity which has seen citizens queuing for hours at petrol stations paying exorbitantly for the product. Citizens inability to access cash for day to day living is mounting pressure on many households. Now with another deadline for the narrow exploration, the old narrow exploration approaching this weekend many are still unable to access money to access money in the banks of the basic things of life and meet up with their business demands. These combined with a 17-year high inflation or a 17-year inflation high of 21.34% mean there is no escape from the hardship upon the citizens. Expected this week is a nationwide protest from concerned citizens under the auspices of the network of civil societies for economic sustainability NCE or N-C-S-E-S. A convener of N-C-S-E-S Mohammed Shuaibu is stressing that Nigerians are suffocating as a result of a fuel and narrow scarcity. The group is vowing that there will be a shutdown of Abuja and other strategic cities until the problem is satisfactorily addressed. The director general of the Nigerian Employees Consultative Forum NECA Devala Oyerinde who said the policy has good potential noted that the implementation is poor and absolutely below par. Now with the challenges faced by Nigerians he said the government was making a mockery of the monetary system. Meanwhile Speaker of the House of Representatives Femig Bajabia Mila has said the green chamber will have no option but to reconvene before February 25 elections if the central bank of Nigeria fails to address the hardship Nigerians are facing due to the currency swap policy adding that the House will continue to monitor the CBN's implementation of the policy closely and of course don't forget Nigerians had been asked for one seven days one week by the president to solve the entire problem of the narrow scarcity and fuel scarcity as well. But we are seeing this morning how can Nigeria get off the path to the economic abyss? How much can Nigeria take? How much more can Nigerians take of what's going on? We have joining us this morning a guest. He is Oluwa Shegun, a legway day national public relations officer of the Association of Money and Bank Agents of Nigeria Amban. He joins us for a zoom from Abelkuta. Mr. Legwine thank you very much for your time. Good morning. I'm happy to be here. All right all right. What is Amban's position officially on what exactly we are seeing playing out with the CBN's policies? Yeah our position just like a few other Nigerians have agreed that the policy is a good one for our economy just that implementation is where we are having issues. The policy is a good one if all things are well crossed are all lines well dotted. It's full cascades and take the economy to a better position. However we have also noted that a lot of sitting down with stakeholders have not been done before this. A lot of graphs have been identified. I will feel if all of these taking care of before now will be here while we applaud the CBN for taking the bull by the home and I mean this has been like 12 years coming since 2011-2012 when the government through the CBN started to grow cashless. But we have not really done anything as drastic as this. Two policies in the space of four weeks one was to limit over the counter and the ATM withdrawal of cash. The other one is this cash we designed and it includes the three major currency notes that we spent in Nigeria 200,000, 500,000, 1,000,000 at a go. And so one will expect that going by and appreciating the the anonymity of this policy a lot of things are should have been put in place so that it will give all of us a soft landing and the Nigerians that we are actually trying to take out of poverty will not even be feeling the heat the more like they're feeling it now. Okay just a quick one what exactly is Amban's what role do you play? Are you because you are association of money in bank agents are you part of those who are listed as super agents by the CBN to help them in this cash swap? Amban is an industrial association we serve the interests of mobile modern bank agents we have core tenets of advocacy, enlightenment, security, funding and of course educating members in in areas and of course deepening financial inclusion to the last mile we are we are spread across the country we are in the 36 states across the FCT of the country so we would have expected that a policy like this of course we are not super agents we are not licensed of course we work with licensed operators and if you are talking about deeply financial services we are the most important aspect in the ecosystem we are the ones who take these product and services to the last mile to the to the heat and land to the crazy to the new countries of the country so we understand the heart beats of the people relate with them directly so our contribution would have been so much valuable of course we had the opportunity to be the CBN and also push to them that they should adopt agents in the new Neurano cash swap which they eventually adopted and I think that started by January 30th and 31st and just 30,000 agents were adopted in this in this that is like 38 per local government per each local government in the in the country so we think it is grossly inadequate looking at the number of agents that would be served at this at this point in time yeah but but I like you to speak to the consent of you know monetary and economic expats they're saying that the narrow scarcity has a lot of unintended consequence and one of such is that there might just be an extinction of you know the traditional banks the you know money deficit banks do you think that that might be the case with the increased need for digital banking you know there's there's no way this can lead to extinction of DMBs no the DMBs will still be here to play their roles so also the Boba Monea bank agents will still be here to play their roles we have all of these happening now because most of the information you hear there are really uninformed positions people are taking most of them are informed positions because I feel the CBN has not complicated enough with all the stakeholders and I think that's the reason why a lot of people come with different congestions that this might be the banks will not be losing their core values and responsibilities they will still be here to play their roles as a matter of fact they are being asked to strengthen their infrastructure the more the alternative channels that we have they are being asked to I mean ensure that these the infrastructures are able to accommodate the rush that we have now because even beyond now with the limit of cash withdrawal on cash withdrawal what it means is that people will use more of the digital platforms more so all the issues around decline and just put resolutions are things that they need to now begin to look around and solve again this also a wake-up call to all providers and banks to evolve more in products introduction and innovations they need to there has to be some other products that the banks will need to evolve themselves in beyond serving as deposit money bands and then all of that there are so many products digital products digital financial products that the economy needs now at this point in time that would let us I mean it will take away all of these all of these issues why people are having issue out there is because most of the info of most people playing in the informal market are not banks or they have some one or two things I give the banks so they don't want their money so even when they have back accounts I you elect to send money into the account for the goods or services that are getting from them what they tell you is that they don't want it I want cash it is because of the confidence that it has been eroded over time in the way issues are resolved when they are at this point in the way they are being served so there are so many things that has to be done by the banks and all players in the industry to ensure that confidence of the populace are in kindred and they are able to approach the banks to to pick and then and then subscribe to products that will give them ease of life I like I like us to you know speak to still with this particular issue we're looking at the extinction of traditional bank or the banks as it were money deposit banks but you would also want to agree with me that a lot of banks have lost their hands to you know better companies outside of Nigeria if you look at the jacquard syndrome which is very prominent and IT supports you no longer have that so yes as much as maybe this policy is to cater for the unbanked but we probably might just be getting to a point where people are drifting away from the conventional banking system so would you still say that this is just statement people are not informed because if this policy is get towards addressing and catering for the unbanked but unfortunately we seem to be gaining getting to a point where we have a lot of people losing and not having confidence in the banking system for instance I don't know if you've tried to make any kind of transaction via your app or transfer it's not even seamless you have to do that like over and over and over again so yes what are your thoughts on this I agree with you we have challenges here and there but of course it does not take anything away from the fact that one day or sooner or later we approach this hand where we need to go cashless of course cash would not be totally eliminated from our daily activities but what we happen is that if the banks evolve with innovations in products and other financial services offerings it will it will ease a whole lot of things then talking about the brain drain I think if this is this policy is able to scale through it will improve our economy and of course if the government is also able to tackle the issue of security because when you look at people who are actually living in the country in droves there are not people who are not comfortable here in Nigeria the only reason why they live is because they feel security is not tight enough for them and they feel there are better opportunities out there but with this we are the banks and some other financial companies a print text are able to bring in more products innovate and ensure that these products are able to serve the interests of the people many of our guys will stay back because the economy is booming the products are scaling and the people are able to assess their fund they are able to do transactions seamlessly there are issues with some of the bank apps not all of them because this rush that is being experienced was not expected but with time all of these things will be addressed we cannot say because some of these things are not working out that the policy is but know what the banks just need to do is just I mean wake up and begin to ensure that the eyes are dotted teeth are crossed and all areas all whose ends are tightened to ensure that they work in in line and they are in sync with the policy of the central central bank of Nigeria the the central bank is said is not going back on on the deadline you know for the exploration of phasing out of the the old Naira notes they've said they have enough you know you know cash in in the banking system they have enough cash to support economic activities in off of 1500 200 100 50 20 10 and 5 Naira only god knows that that's the word no god him if he gave a press media briefing he goes a couple of days back and he that's what he said so I'm seeing that they've said they're not going back next in the deadline and they have enough cash you know to support economic activities what's your view on that as a professional an expert in the money and bank field is the deadline going to work we have enough Nigerians able to meet up with this deadline especially if you look at the the amount of all the the level of compliance before the last deadline for me I think the deadline is what is hot in us at the moment in the extended probably down be some other elements coming to play in the in the scheme of things as it is today presently because there is deadline we have rocket tears who dealing selling cash if because if they know that there's a situation on grant if they don't have inspired on it at first and see if it has stopped to it's gone I believe by now who the same the effect of this policy so I I agree with the CVM that the deadline shouldn't be extended the deadline is actually new for people to bring in their own notes and then so and if you have also monitored reports you will have seen that most of this commercial banks have these new notes in their votes what they have not done is to push them out as they should and now that the CVM is monitoring the situation and ensuring that there is full compliance I don't think there should be any reason for the CVM is right by saying they put in this the the all other players in the industry especially the DMBs should do the that you don't be a reason for anybody to have these new notes and just keep it somewhere we're about to close this conversation down but I'd like you to respond to this or show your thoughts on it how would you describe this situation that Nigerians have found themselves in we know that the the ATMs are not leaving up to their expectations the banks or however the pure separators seem to have cash available and this extra charge on every transaction that you have for instance you're probably might want to withdraw 5,000 naira and the charge on 5,000 naira is that you have to pay 2,000 naira how do you describe this it's unfortunate it's unfortunate and that's what I was trying to say the other time because of the scarcity wherever the scarcity you see some other elements coming to play in the for pure separators that you have agents that you have mentioned you if you do your investigation you realize that many of them I mean normally they get cash apart from bank from merchants in the in the markets to as a source for their transactions most of these sellers merchants now sell the cash to them at a very huge amount and they also want to hedge the cost and also add their own margin this is called for of course but the scarcity has caused this it is not because you have access to the cash from the bank most of them source for this cash from the informal markets for people who are selling the markets who are cashed dominant in their sales everyday sales that is where they can get this cash normally on a number before this issue came up they will call agents to come and help them about quick discussion but because they now realize that the scarcity even when the agents go to meet them they tell the agents that I'm going to be giving you this extra amount at this cost I think the union should realize that we are not doing ourselves any good by involving ourselves in buying ascending of the cash of course the security agencies are out there whereby is found in this kind of a bit or exercise will face the music and you have told our members you seem to be absorbing uh you seem to absorb in the purest agents of this and blaming you know cash merchants are purest agents members of your association yeah we are clear that members of the association we are those that are not members of the association okay so are you are you encouraging your members to to to to sell at 1000 there sell the naira you know 1005 yes is that it is illegal for anybody to buy cash for any transaction it is illegal to put your price because if you buy definitely you want to edge the cost so the portion of the association we are not in support of those that are buying cash and the transaction at cost that I mean above the roof what we are saying here is that I'm just trying to paint a picture for you for what is happening out there the reality it is it is not just for us to say the agents are doing this it is also also realize what are the reasons behind this all of these people involved in this for us as association we have told everyone it is wrong for you to buy cash there's no way in the country in the world where you see a currency of a country appreciates against itself okay we have to go because of time we have to go uh but you are saying that uh it's wrong for anyone to sell naira and to charge exorbitant rates exactly for exchange and for these services uh where we used to pay 100 naira for 5,000 nairas 1,000 or like Mesa said 2,000 for 5,000 uh that's not really exorbitant and you some members are being arrested by the DSS so I think the LAR they change the better but thank you so much for your time I appreciate it thank you all right all right that's national PRO association of money and bank agents of Nigeria messy 2,000 naira for 5,000 naira I mean there's a lot of drama that's going on so you want to take out 100,000 naira you probably have to give out 10,000 naira 2,000 naira for 5,000 naira where did that happen I'm not joking I mean you you need to you need to list you need to um go out there to must really be uh some people are taking advantage I mean this is a conversation that we're having and like we'll always say that we're just a reflection of of who we are I mean the leadership that we have is a reflection of who we are I mean we're not even different from it is hard all right so so you know the information you should go to um uh Avalua Road uh Iqoi EFCC has an office there and report this person so my my point is in the first instance that if we as a people care about ourselves without necessarily making reference to president Bahama Dabari or the legal state governor or any other governor or house of lawmaker or lawmakers we have no business buying the cash it's illegal you're going for it no we don't have to go far I said we're saying it if you're telling me to go to Avalua I mean what resources do I have to take to go to Avalua no no to report the person that's what I'm saying so I need money to go to Avalua to go make the report my point is I'll drive you there I'll drive you there I'll tell you I want to drive you to take you I mean you you have to buy petrol it's national service it's a national service so you have to go you have to go on the break now yes we have to go on the break but the point is if we as a people you know understand the fact that we can't continue like this and expect a different result you're engaging in illegal activity who sent you to buy this money we have to go on that break Messi is visibly paying that this and rightly so I'll try to calm her down with some tea we'll be right back after this break