 Hey folks My name is John. I'm a general partner at Andreessen for what's in one of the co-founders of games fund one Which is Andreessen's first? dedicated fund Dedicated to investing in gaming founders And I'm joined here by Cordell. Would you can you introduce yourself? Absolutely? I'm Cordell Robin Cocher I'm the co-founder and CEO of Kerry first and we're Africa's leading mobile publisher and Consumer fintech platform our mission is to scale awesome content in the region by solving hard problems That's awesome. So what's let's start up by actually talking about Africa, which is I think the hot topic of our talk today But tell us a bit about what are some of the major trends that we should think about when we think about Africa? You know what's happening now, and why is it exciting? Yeah, so Africa is a really fascinating gaming market I would say it's underpinned by the best demographics in the world So you have 1.4 billion people Over a billion of them under the age of 40, which is more than the US and China combined On the content side, it's almost entirely mobile And so over 90 percent of internet accesses via the mobile phone And so we have 300 million unique gamers a billion dollar market, which should double in the next few years So we think it's a really exciting market and an exciting time as well. Yeah, but a statistic I think that you've I've heard you quote that I love is that Africa is one of the fastest growing mobile gaming markets in the world today, right? Maybe you could talk a bit about why that's that's coming to pass Yeah, over the last 10 years the number of unique gamers is grown by 3x and The market overall is grown by 7x There are a bunch of reasons the first is just penetration. So Smartphone adoption is growing double digits year-over-year. So more people have phones in their pockets And just like everywhere in the world when people get their first smartphone They basically they want to chat with their friends. They want to find dates and they want to play games And so gaming being I think one of the most ubiquitous forms of media We see that really really taking off So that's the good side There's a lot of really kind of strong demographic trends, but there are also some challenges So we think the market could grow even much faster If if there were some some things that were solved, yeah I think it's fascinating if I can just draw a bit for my personal history So I used to work at Tencent before I came to a 16z And one of the things that also happened there was that mobile gaming just really took off in a huge way And a lot of it was contributed by sort of the console band that China had where a Whole generation of gamer was basically skipped playing console games and ending went straight to basically like you know Playing games in the one device that everyone had at the time, which was like, you know The future phones and later on the spite phones And in the WeChat ecosystem paired of a fintech platform ended up being the home for a lot of some of the biggest games in China Yeah, 100% I think in our in our wildest dreams. We we hope to be the Tencent of Africa And we we see very similar trends Instead of a console band. We just haven't had a console or a PC market If you think about mobile it really democratizes gaming because everyone has one in their pocket, it's relatively inexpensive and And suddenly now everyone's a gamer even if you can't afford, you know, a thousand dollar ps5 or a couple thousand dollar peak like PC And I think one of the questions that I Used to get a lot when I was working for Tencent There's just other types of games that people play in China are they fundamentally different from the rest of the world So if you're a game developer Like can your games even translate to China and so I'd be really curious, you know What what your view and that answer is for for Africa specifically, you know How do you account for regional taste and is it different from the rest of the world and so on I? would say Fundamentally, it's not different and we we honestly had to learn that ourselves the hard way We started out as a studio We thought you needed to build like hyper culturalized content by country and we realized Eventually that our users just wanted to play the best games in the world So they wanted to play Call of Duty and Candy Crush and and the question was around accessibility and so The only difference is we see between let's say specific markets in Africa and Western markets can be explained by Demographics, so, you know the median age on the continent is 19 years old Which compares to like 43 in Western Europe, so it's really young and then Smartphone penetration skews mail. So if I think about our like art like archetype It's like a 19 year old college mail and you and if you look at games that they play they tend to be competitive And they tend to be you know multiplayer and so we there are a few themes. We tend to focus on so sports games mobile first sports lightweight shooters Unfortunately, we like to shoot our friends And universal human Exactly And parlor games So if you think about the games that you play with your friends offline on a Friday, maybe with a whiskey or a beer card games dice board games and so bringing those to mobile in an accessible way is really what we focus on but We don't you know Africans don't need their own content, which is wonderful Yeah, and that's as a game developer. I feel like there must be several in the audience today If you have a successful game and you're thinking about bringing it to Africa like what is what are some of the things that they should be thinking about? The the first thing is accessibility I think what we've learned is that you know, there's there's technical churn and there's content churn Content churn everyone deals with at some point you get bored Or your game is not you know interesting enough You run out of content and they move on technical churn is more avoidable That's like game doesn't work well on the device. They're high crash rates or an ours Or it's really really resource-intensive. So You know when we think about Western developers today Oftentimes they're always they're building for the latest iPhone device Which is more powerful than my laptop was five years ago, right? And they're thinking about environments where you have 5g connections and everything works great and Synchronicity is really easy, but for like a couple billion users across frontier markets including Africa They're they're on a hundred dollar Android smartphone with limited storage limited processing capacity They're paying for airtime out of pocket prepaid and that's like a very real material expense for them And so the first thing I would think about is how do you make sure your game is accessible? So, you know relatively light on device not a ton of You know requirements and and just playable and just a double-click and accessibility So if you just put your game on the app store or Google play That doesn't quite it's not quite accessible For the reason that you mentioned device compatibility and you know other things It's it's not and so we get this a lot They're like well, I can put my you know game in the app store like in Africa like what's the difference? Why do you need a local partner? So I think one is technical, but then the other two is like go to market So Africa, you know, it's really nice to talk about it and as a monolith because it makes it feel really simple But it's 54 countries That you know hundreds of languages different cultural nuances and so if you want to scale You need to be able to sort of meet players where they are And so we do a lot on like creatives like localizing or culturalizing creatives and we find that we'll get 50% higher installs For the same number of impressions by using let's say local influencers in our ads Or local slang as opposed to even the best kind of shiniest gameplay creatives So go to market is one and then Payments is is another big challenge, right? And that's a really interesting one because I think a common sort of refrain that I hear sometimes about Africa Is that it's a low art food market for for mobile games in particular, right? And I have to imagine that some of that has to do with the fact that some people are putting their game and Google play And they're not doing any of the things that you mentioned. There's no local payments There's no there's no real localization and they're discovering that I like they're not making very much money from it So maybe you could double-click a bit on the payments piece. Yeah, so Payments, I think is the biggest challenge or monetization overall, which we aim to solve and so the fundamental challenge is the internationally accepted credit card is is the sort of form of ubiquitous payment for mobile content and Only one in ten Individuals on the continent have that and so the way I describe it is if you have a game and it's published in Africa Only one out of ten Attempted payers would be payers are physically able to do so and so what we've done is we've built our own payment stack We've aggregated all of the like relevant local methods things like mobile money local bank transfer locally denominated cards and and created like a very Consumer-friendly interface for people to pay for in-game content and so our hope is that you know We can convert two or three of those nine people who wanted to pay But couldn't and if you can do that suddenly you've tripled or quadrupled the LTV Of a game without doing anything else. No you a gameplay changes or anything It's just literally allowing people to pay for stuff that they already want to Yeah What a As you looked at a feature like what do you think of some of the greatest sort of opportunities and challenges that you guys have before you So as a company, I would say we're really really excited about the opportunity the market opportunity is very clear Our value proposition is also incredibly clear And so the challenge really is a little bit of this kind of getting the word out having people understand the the opportunity and You know, there are a lot of challenges in the world broadly You know, there are silver linings for us because as you know, things slow down and get more competitive in the West as IDFA makes it much harder To go and target whales in the US and China We're starting to see some of the biggest game companies kind of change and turn their attention to Africa As a as a market that has fundamental growth, right? 10% every year just to new users and so, you know, one thing is we we partnered Or we're partnering currently with Activision around Call of Duty mobile and I think a year and a half ago We probably wouldn't have even gotten a phone call with them But we're working with them to help them scale in South Africa It's one of the top-grossing mobile games in the world, but a hundred percent And and so for them to take an interest in the region is really great And what's even better is we've delivered or even more so the market is delivered So inside of a month of launching we help them grow their active user base by 7x Well, which is like astonishing and some of that is just around focus, right? You need to put down a local server so that folks can play in a competitive way But a lot of it is the nitty-gritty stuff on the ground. So we brought on a an influencer Who's a rapper named nasty see I had never heard of him because I'm too old but He's like he's a gen Z. Those are the best influences Exactly if you've heard of them, they're probably not the right one so He's come on and and he's leading the campaign and so we've done local e-sports tournament We had a concert tied with it and just like created a lot of buzz and and honestly people are really excited the Most comments that we get so the first most is South Africans that are really pumped that that we're doing this And then the second is Nigerians that are like like when are we gonna get a local server like what's coming next and so There's a really really like huge groundswell of appetite for great content. That's awesome And I think it's never been a better time. I think That's like the mobile markets in general are just getting more competitive right if you're launching a new app if you Launch in a new game. It's how do they never to kind of break in The break through the noise and actually attract downloads and so Focus on a sort of new greenfield opportunities like an entire continent to people. I think it's especially powerful these days Presum I want to switch gears for a second down I maybe just talk a bit about company building because I know you have a lot of founders and builders in the audience as well But maybe talk a bit about what is it like building the company now in a frontier market? It's a carry forces based in in South Africa, right? It is I would say It's inspiring and incredibly challenging. So company building is I think one of the hardest things that you can do period I don't have any kids, but I would say it's probably like starting as a company and and like having your first child It turns your life upside down. It's really hard. You're trying to build something. That's never existed in the world So it's hard building in a frontier market is even harder Because sometimes like capital isn't always there or doesn't yet appreciate the opportunity and And sometimes you're you're trying to create new industries like the free-to-play gaming industry basically Hasn't existed at scale in Africa. And so we've had to be pioneers So that's the that's the challenge, but the opportunity is like, yeah every day You see a massive opportunity you make a change and you see immediate response from users and the ecosystem and It's really really exciting And so it's interesting obviously we're here because A16z is one of our investors But it would be interesting to kind of hear your your your thoughts on Frontier market, you know early stage investing is that you know A couple of years ago, maybe we might have been off-piece or off-geo for you guys, but you know, eventually it's a good fit Yeah, so a general sort of investment framework that we have is that We believe that every good start it needs to have both the product inside and a distribution inside And so just using an example from a company used to work for riot games They've made the game League of Legends But their product insight was that they had found this mod called Dota and they just under sort of thesis was that if they could Reduce barriers to entry that they could actually unlock an entire genre And so there was a product insight and in their distribution insight was there one of the first sort of Western teams to adopt free-to-play That's a business model and that was groundbreaking at the time And so bringing it back to frontier markets. I think one of the things I love about Businesses like Kerry first that I've built it in frontier markets is that you have a distribution advantage Just by stent the building for a frontier market right and so you have a distribution insight But you still have to get the product right So you still got to go team and built about product and get the product market fit which I know are challenging things for Robbie start up But knowing that if you succeed you have a huge audience that you're unlocking. I think that's extremely powerful And I think historically you're right like one of the one of the main challenges of Startups in front here markets has been access to labor and access to capital. I think there's a few things that we've noticed On the labor front like you often have to get people If you're recruiting superstar talent, you know from other parts of the world They have to be willing to move across and you know relocate to another country, which is tall a tall task I mean for investment capital As a local entrepreneur in an emerging market like you may not know who the investors are or be of the kind of network you're way And to get a warm intro, right? I think the nice thing is that as it was the silver lining of COVID in the pandemic has been that Now it's easier than ever for people to work remotely and that's become more of a norm And so the access to labor I think is sort of that's become less of an issue because you can just have people work Work where ever they are but then still still join the company. That's in the front here market And then this talent is disposed around the glow but think investors like ourselves have also been Increasingly more excited about investing sort of off the beaten path because you want to invest We're in the business of investing in the very best founders wherever they are And so Yeah, hopefully that's yeah a hundred percent. I mean we we've seen exactly that so 2020 Was a really difficult year, but it was probably The seminal year for our company, right? Um because of COVID we went from having, you know, three offices and having to recruit in these very limited pools To being able to say Wherever you are as long as the time zone works. Um, we can you can work with Kerry first and so We're now Probably 70 people but we're in 24 different countries like across Africa Europe parts of the Middle East And it's fun to be able to go to someone in the gaming industry that is obsessed with games. They got into it Out of passion, but over time they found themselves working for a multinational corporation Which is not as fun as what they thought it was going to be And to say like, okay, you can come you can build games with us. You can market games In a new market with a small team and you can still live in berlin or even better If you hate berlin and you want to move back to romania, you can do that and like we don't care So remote work has like changed the game for us with regard to recruiting And also fundraising right like it's uh and people used to be like, uh, you know When are you gonna be in la next and then we'd be like Well, actually I was playing on being in la in three weeks And then you go on kayak and then and book the flight But now you can just hop on a on a zoom call And uh and connect so it does make it a lot easier. I feel like company building is is being democratized in a great way Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great point at the z-meetings and um Just the fact that um you can just You know hop in the metaverse and essentially pitch a pigeon investor in london pigeon investor in la Pitching investor in berlin and just you know have those as back-to-back zoom calls. I think that's actually very powerful. Yeah Excellent well, maybe um when it comes to uh Lessons learned along the way since it feels like as you've scaled i'm sure you've had many sort of ups and downs um What are some things that looking back you would You know for sure do again And you know and what are some things that you would maybe try to avoid or the next time around do better on in terms of Lessons learned for other other founders Yeah, um many many many lessons learned So I'll try to distill them down to to a few I think um When I when I talk to founders I I used to be an investor and and I'm now an entrepreneur So I still try and mentor other folks a lot and The first thing I say is like you are your startup Right like the idea can change the market can change the product can change but fundamentally Uh the founders or the first group of people are your startup And so the number one is you have to as I say like protect the asset Which is you have to take care of yourself physically You have to take care of yourself mentally like when I first got started One of the things that I did uh was I read I read a few books I read the heart thing about heart things which is like my startup bible definitely read it But I also read the book about elan musk And you know he doesn't have a home He sleeps on his friend's couches. He sleeps on like the floor shop floor and stuff And so the first thing I did I like went to new york. I was sleeping on my friend's couch I like wasn't eating And and that was idiotic Right the the first thing you should do is just make sure That you're taking care of yourself that you're in the right frame of mind because it's a marathon Um, it's not a sprint. It's not a sprint. Um Second thing is get help right. I have been fortunate to get uh to have two co-founders that Are way better than me, uh at certain things Um and that where we have like good chemistry And there's so much to do and it's so hard that I think getting great help is the second thing And and I think the third is really like having fun And that's that's like I think a mantra for work generally Even if you know, you only work exactly 40 hours a week and you refuse to spend another hour You're still going to be spending the majority of like you're waking You know non sleeping non tooth brushing or commuting hours at work So you may as well have fun and if you're going to do something for 10 years and try and change the world Like you better have fun. Uh, otherwise it's just going to be a miserable ride So none of those have to do with like product market fit or engineering tactics or anything But I think if you if you apply those, you know, you have a chance and that's all you can ask for really yeah, there's um Uh It's interesting how the media sometimes glamorizes startup life and um what you were saying earlier about sleeping in cultures and sort of like, you know Being a garage like a garage startup It's glamorized, but I think the reality is that startups are about as much about The long game or just like lasting and surviving essentially until you find product market fit and um, I think focusing on Making sure that you have sustainable lifestyle practices. I think that's We don't hear a lot about that, but I think that's incredibly important Because you got to you got to be able to hang in there and maybe your first product doesn't work and you need to like iterate and try something else um And on the tree now these fun reason processes can sometimes take a long time and There um, it's a lot about just persevering, right 100 percent. Yeah Excellent What has this been great, um any last thoughts on Very first Africa or any any advice that you have for other entrepreneurs out there to build in front of your markets Yeah, look, I would say for for entrepreneurs. Generally Um, just keep at it, right maintain your vision Don't lose sight of why you started in the first place and keep going Um, and then generally I would say, um, you know, Africa is a really really exciting market It's worth your time. Um, if you're interested in scaling in the region definitely reach out to us And, uh, we'd love to continue the conversation Awesome. Thank you, Kota. It's been a pleasure. Thanks Sean