 Karibu Sana, we are still right here in the morning as well and the hashtag is why in the morning. That's where you can find us on our socials as well. And right now we are switching gears a little bit. We have been speaking to Honourable Catherine Omanu, just sharing with us her journey and her trials and triumphs to how she became who she is. But we have to switch gears and talk about matters, politics in just a bit before I get to her once again. And the people daily, there's an interesting highlight about corruption. They're saying members of parliament are joining in on the situation that happened in the Ministry of Water that is a docket held by C.S. O'Homme. And the committee director O'Parson mentioned in the scandal to appear before it starting Thursday this week. And then there's an interesting story about Kip Choge shining shout out to him. He won the world record marathon for the fifth time clocking two hours two minutes and 42 seconds yesterday. That's another way to be proud of as well. But away from that, the biggest conversation has always been the dialogue. And this includes bipartisan talks that have been constantly or still also continue to go down at the bombers of Kenya. And the last time we actually saw the leaders agreeing on some two, three things here and there. The other side that is from the ODIM side or the opposition side and then from the government. And of course a committee was formed led by Kimani Choong and also a respective leader from the opposition side as well. So I'm just going to let in honorable Catherine Omanio to just chime in a little bit and we're going to actually banter and see are they going to be successful talks and of course we pray they're going to be successful. The last time the last time the committee was held at bombers, there are some variables. So there's some things that were brought on the table, including reconstitution of IEBC, the position of the opposition leader. But then your side has been very vocal about the issue of the cost of living, which continues to ravage and it's still an ongoing issue. But then on the other side, they've been vocal as well. They've said they don't have a solution to the cost of living. It's a worldwide thing. Initially you had mentioned fuel and then it went down to Unger. It went down to so many other things but then also they've introduced a lot of taxes as well, which you know a lot of from your side they call it punitive tax measures. So do you feel, do you believe in these dialogues? Is it going to be a successful thing from where you sit and what you've absorbed? What are the heats and the misses? First of all, we just must have these negotiations. We must have them. If anybody loves their country, they will not allow the country to go into a blink. And people who are egocentric are very careless. You can easily hear some utterances and wonder if such people have a vision for the nation. And anyone, whether on Azmiaside or a government side, who has a brain must be desperate for the negotiations to be successful because when we are peaceful, one, we attract investors. Two, we can talk of things soberly, how to build and rebuild. At the moment, we are so divided as a nation in the talks if need be, should be like looking into what Kenyans want, what exactly will help Kenyans first. And when Azmiaside insists on talking about costs of living, they are actually representing Kenyans. If you sat with an old woman today, she will be saying, we used to buy Gorogoro at this. And even if it went bad, it didn't go this bad. And there's a way a president can do things to make sure that we can have some sugar for tea and this meal. But then it seems the side of the government is reluctant. And when the government is reluctant, it simply shows that we have people who already reached where they are, they are comfortable. And even coming down to them is watering down their ego. So if we had people who do not have these ego issues and people who have a long vision for Kenya, then they'll be advising the government wisely. So we still stick with the cost of living. Their diversionary tactics of coming up with saying that Baba will be there, 2027, Baba has not died. And if, as long as he's breathing, whatever he will say is what we will go with. And Baba said and repeated, the cost of living must go down. And that is why me with the Mysufria, I was being chased because I'm still saying the cost of living must go down. So these negotiations, if you see some people throwing in things to divert what we want, they are being pinned or being displayed or being embarrassed that they have no clue why they are leaders. Your counterparts on the other side, they've been very crystal clear and vocal. They inherited a dilapidated economy, which I don't know if you agree, it's true or not, but you'll tell me. When you came to reducing the cost of living, they said the only way is to go the agriculture away. And the president had an initiative of fertilizer subsidies that went on and they're still ongoing as well. They encouraged farmers to go and start farming so that we increase production so that we have food samples. But then from your side, you'll tell me, you guys had your own introspection came up with the demonstration you went on the streets. But then it seems like things were not even changing. Things even moved from was to the was to now. It's not even the was anymore. We can't even talk about it like things are out of hand. So who is supporting who and who is sabotaging who? Everybody inherits a fault. Well, if you look at what our first president, inherited, it was starting a nation from, you know, the stress of chasing the colonialists. Kibaki, everybody else even more. Everybody inherits a fault. But how you come out of it is what matters. So a year after they took over, they should not be still crying that they inherited problems. Ruta was part of the problems. So if we inherited, he's just extending what he kept. You cannot postpone things forever. We need a solution now. And because he fought and stole himself to the state house, he should also now do something. Can you prove he fought and stole? Yeah. You know, when you say he fought and stole, it's dramatic and controversial. If you don't have proof. They're adding wrinkles on Kenyans. Because when you're a president, you should now stand and speak solutions, not whining every day and saying, oh, we inherited problems. But they said they need time. Of course, I understand presidency is not a switch on and off. It's transitional, progressional. So you need a little bit time to structure some things because you're coming up with a new structure of running things, not as compared to the previous one. Their priorities are bent. You know, if you say you want to drive the budget, you say 800 million should go to your new cars. That 800 million could be used somewhere to subsidize something so that Kenyans can survive. Does he want to lead graves? You know, a real leader would be saying, I want to lead people, not graves. Every day, a Kenyan is giving up. Does he even wake up to think that way? If he ever woke up and just said, no, enough is enough. Even me as a president, I should not condone this. Then he will do away with the people who are reckless like Moses Kuria, waking up and saying, in fact, in the next few days, it will rise by 30 percent. Then they come back and say, no, he was just saying his own things. He should fire such people because if I had stress, it will go into depression and then death because Moses Kuria has said something and nobody says anything. In fact, he's shielded. I had Gashagwa saying, where should he go? He's shielded. So we do not want leaders who are so insensitive. And unfortunately, that is what Ruto has. And where they sit, they think they will use the world and say the world everywhere. It's that way. We are talking of Kenya. We are not actually going to buy that rhetoric. If President Uhuru tried his best, whatever trick he used can Ruto just borrow that for some time as we all come back to agriculture and other things in this agriculture. Who are they actually sending? I am a leader and I have groups that do agriculture. When they bring this fertilizer, who did they give to supply fertilizer? You've not seen the subsidies, distribution? Any from your team that has received or seen? Some of these things were brought and disappeared the same night. Somebody is bringing but giving the wrong hands to resell these things. So a few people are just given for peer. Can they trust from the MCS or the village elders to supply these things? Because if you reach the village elder to handle this fertilizer, the village elder will reach the villagers. Meaning that bottom up of theirs will now work. But if you bring and put somewhere near the customs there, near the exit to Uganda, the fertilizer has disappeared. And they are very very harsh. They don't want anybody to talk about the channel they are using. So actually they are introducing a problem in a problem. Let them sit with the village elders. From there they'll be talking solutions. And not assuming that because this fertilizer reached Malaba where it's near the customs in Busea, it reached Buseyams. No, a handful. The issue of course of living, of course, they made it clear it's a worldwide issue. It's not just Kenya that experiencing an economic recession. It's the whole entire world. And now when the fuel prices showed up, they've also highlighted that even in Ukraine, there are so many countries that have been highlighted. And recently there's a country that has even stopped, is it exporting fuel because they're running out of it? Is it not a worldwide economic recession? The President Uhuru was ruling us when there was that peak of Ukraine issues, conflict, and he still managed to subsidize the food prices. So we want solutions. As we grow our own crops, temporarily we need also a solution to, as we wait for now, you know, as to go on our feet. But at the moment I think even the government side does not think they use force. Even when we were just wearing suffureas on our heads, they used force to get us out of the street. That shows that when somebody is weak in reasoning, they use force. So even today, Catherine will be talking here. But when she gets out there, the messages she'll get is threats. So all we need is all of us, whether on the Simeo side or government side, to sit and think through these problems. There will be a solution. But the way it is, immediately somebody talks of a solution, Gashagwa rises up, thrashes it, and says other things. Or other people, spanner boys, who are sent to water down. Any good idea. As long as it comes from Simeo side, it's a threat. They water it down. Unless we have people who are saying, actually, Simeo side, they're right. Let us see if this solution can help all of us. But they think that any Simeo idea, which is looking smarter and good, palatable to Kenyans, if they buy it, then they will be weak. It's not weakness. In fact, a strong leader stretches a hand to decide they think is the enemy, to get to the bottom of it and see why are they always like preferred. Today, if Baba said, I'm going to any stadium, it will be full. But nobody will have been given 1000 to attend the meeting or fill the seats. But of course you can't compare. Yeah. But if Ruto goes somewhere, they have to buy people and make sure they ferry them and bring them and give them lunch and tell them kindly, stay and clap hands. Clap. Anything they say, clap. I don't know if that's true. We can prove it. I stay on the ground. I know what happens. I have no idea about that. So I'll leave it to you. But then the issue of reconstitution of IABC, which is among the lists that you guys are demanding, how is it going to help in reforming the electoral process? We don't trust IABC. Why? And that is whatever has been happening since time in Memorial, we just don't trust IABC. And reconstituting it will try to bring some trust back. Otherwise, if it remains like that, then you already know the end before we even start the next elections. We already know. So IABC, if they are noble enough and want Kenyans to trust them and also the government, if they don't have any hidden agenda, they should not stick to what they think will work for them. They should stick to what they know Kenyans want and Kenyans want to change. Even if you started from from Mombasa to Turkana and ask anyone about IABC, they will say, no, we don't trust them. So why should we be forced to still go with how it is? There must be changes and they have no option but to accept that we must have changes. And when changes are there, it is good that we have some faces that Kenyans can trust, not only the government can trust. Many things are happening even in institutions. When you see employment, when it is happening, we have two tribes that are so dominant getting employment. Kenyans have over 42 tribes. We need a lot to be resuscitated in our institutions, starting from IABC. IABC, I remember the case that was ongoing at the Supreme Court before they finally made the final verdict and declared the president as the final winner of the previous election. There was an issue of the savers. But then somebody, I read somewhere, somebody was saying, you know, it has always been a pattern from the opposition leader, there's no election he's ever conceded and accepted that he lost. So is it, you know, somebody was saying, maybe if they do that, so maybe he feels like he will feel like now they've included him in terms of, you know, seeing that he can assure him that he will see a sense of transparency and whatnot. But then what happened in the other previous years that he was contesting? You know, with the server, why should it take this long? If anybody even opened it today, this world, it's people who came up with these systems. And for them to take too long to now want to open it, who knows if they edited, you know, the right time is when Baba said, they could have opened that way because they were still so not thinking right, that is the time you could have gotten the real results. Will it make a difference if they opened? Even if they did today, I've said these things, it's human beings. So for them now to have the confidence right now and say, yes, now we will open errors again, they have edited. So let them open. But then why did it take this long? That's my question. If people are transparent, the time Baba said, that is the time they could have opened the server. Yeah, they can still go ahead and open anyway. But then he has never considered elections as well, like he lost and that's it. It's always like something is unfair. We need to do it. Oh, somebody messed me up. We need to do it. And I remember last year before you respond, I know you're dying to respond. There's someone who said, he had the support of the previous government. He was in government. And this other side, they said, in fact, our government, our side line. So when you look at that, when you view it from that lens, you're like, wow, there's something here. This is a drama. But who will solve it now? There are people who are very crafty and they know who to hold and they know how to get somewhere dubiously or decently. The Kenyakuan government, most of the people who won, I'm not mentioning names, but because I've been in that parliament long enough, I have ears. Sometimes they talk, but they do not know that I'm still healing. So when they chest thump, I'm like, so it was true. And I keep quiet. Baba is not fighting for him. What doesn't Baba have? He has everything. Baba is fighting for my child and my great grandchild. So people who failed literature, they don't get it. They think it is Baba. He's fighting for himself. He wants this thing. Baba has got it all, but he's looking into the future and saying, as long as I still have the strength, let me fight for the future generation. And that is the leader we want, a leader who thinks beyond himself. The few ones who have reached, they want, you see even another one is saying, hey, we want the president for seven years, two times. That is 14 years because he is worried. These five years go very fast and 10 years will be gone. And where he is, he is very comfortable. So he wants to extend to continue being where he is at the moment. But Baba looks into this child like Catherine and a grandchild of Catherine that time when he will not be there. How well will he have levelized the ground? That is what Baba wants. I've sat with Baba twice and the little time I have spoken to him, it was enough for me to run and also run for a good course. So he's not that egocentric or whatever they throw at him. He is somebody thinking for Kenya beyond today. From your team and your counterparts from ODIM, are you guys open to sitting down? And first of all, just calming the temperatures, Kedogo to and accept that he's the president. Of course, you guys were vocal. You said that you will never accept him as a president of the country. But he is the fact of the matter. He sees the president and he's going to sit in office for the five times, five times of five years. They've said or even 10 if hallelujah possible. I know you won't believe in that. But are you guys open to just accepting him and giving him time? That he's the president. Yes, they declared him. And that is what it is. Why can't you guys sit down and find a way of also incorporating yourself in his journey? That is why Baba told us to put down suffoliers and spoons. He has actually given us directions. That should have happened earlier. That should have happened earlier. Until these negotiations. Before you went on the streets. Things were not, Kenya Kwanzaa government started everything on the wrong foot. Baba can still fight to the hilt as long as he sees that Kenyans are happy. So if he told us to pause, it doesn't mean that he gave up. He meant that we want these negotiations, meaning cohesion, meaning peace, meaning progress. So that is why we are where we are at. And that is a very viable question because today the streets are clear and Kenyans are trying their best. What is just halting Kenyans is the over taxation. Many, many businesses are closing down. I get so many messages from morning to evening. There's no disposable income where people would have some change just staying in the pockets. It's not actually happening today. Immediately Kenyans took over, Kenyans somehow, even those who love the government side, they are weeping quietly. Me, I can weep very loudly and talk very loudly because I'm in this side. But most of them, if you sit one on one with them, they say actually it's becoming unbearable. And it's for everyone. It is. Why are we working? And now, like now I'm buying bicycles in my Boosia County. People will now not even use Matatus. They will start riding, you know, to work and back. That is where we're headed to. Right. Let me ask you, let me ask you. So what would it would it have been any different if Baba was, let's say, let's assume he was the one who won the election? Very different. Baba's vision is still at my heart. What would have happened? The economy recession, the taxation. So what would be the difference? Baba has genuine friends outside Kenya and in Kenya. Not friends who come to ask first what is ours and then the few you, what is yours, then go and bluff Kenyans. Baba has genuine friends and he is transparent. And that is why some complicated, corrupt people up there didn't want him because he couldn't have accepted Kenyans to be sacrificed for them. When you hear a leader abroad praising President Ruto, question that person. Let Kenyans praise Ruto, not some leader from America or UK praising Ruto. Is it about to be praised by a foreigner? Why? If we are the one bleeding, let them hear from the people and join the people's voice. Not one voice from somewhere praising that person. When that happens, I start digging in. There is a deal that the two know how they will benefit, not Kenyans. So as long as nobody is putting Kenyans first, to me they are not. Actually Ruto is Chebukat's president and a few others because it is Chebukat who announced that. I wish that the server was opened immediately. The true president of Kenya would have been Baba. The bipartisan talks, they failed at first. Opposition leaders said if they don't go on again, you guys are going to go to the streets. The streets are not helping, the streets are making it even worse. Even before magazine. From the life laws and everything. Why can't we just be peaceful, sit down and agree? The fact of the matter is yes, we can agree on some two, three things and the ones that are not possible, let's find a way of working it out instead of going back to the streets. I'm sure you saw the lives that were lost and it was not because the government was intentionally killing people, they were actually trying to protect some people. They were intentionally doing it because the way they profiled, I come from Busia and I know where our lower brothers live. That is the area the army was poured. They did not pour the army in other tribes. That one I stand to even attest that there were people who were profiled to be killed. Many of the lower brothers were killed and it hurts me to death. Do you have profiled? Yes, I come from Busia and I have been profiled for saying stop, lower lives matter. And somebody told me, a senior ranking member as well that I really respect, transferred to work with us in Busia, telling me, so I said okay, do we know? We only had pants on the head. Why come with bullets, live bullets? Better to come with rubber bullets. A rubber bullet can hurt, but it doesn't kill. So it was too much force and anywhere in this world anybody will see it unless they are blind. But then when you look at it also, if you, I don't know if you by bad luck you happen to be on this other side of the government, you will feel frustrated, definitely you feel devastated, you feel there's a lot of push back. You only feel frustrated if you are slow in reasoning. But if you are fast and smart, you will call the other side and ask, we are brothers. This is our country. We do not have any other country to call home. This is home. So how do we mend the broken fences? You don't brag and say, I am the president. You don't have to keep justifying. You are, you are there. So it's like every time some of these Kenyakwanza leaders stand up, they are trying to justify that they are the leaders. We want solutions. So arrogance, just thumping. I sit in parliament and I see how itchungua talks and I say this one, this one has a long way to be called a leader. I actually pity the people he is representing, just thumping from dawn to dusk. And yet we are trying to talk sense. We need peaceful negotiations, cohesion, progress. From the time some people started just thumping also saying, ah, investors are now running from Kenya coming to Tanzania, they had seen our weakness. And it is coming from the people that we could have looked upon and said, that is hope. When they open their mouth, you see progress. But unfortunately, when people like itchungua open their mouths, you don't see any hope, no progress, but just thumping only. But anyways, there's political rhetoric from both sides. There's somebody who is reminding or reminding me last week, you remember during the presidential debate, even your leader did not even show up because they were a thousand percent sure they won their election and they did have nothing to do with it. And when the results came out, the person who was humble and meek is the one who won. So there's a little bit of confusion to Kenyans. At first, we thought that they had received reprieve, but then it has been pushback on top of pushback on top of pushback. From your side, I know you'll give with an azimio lens. What do you think are the solutions that can lead to the possibility of these bipartisan talks working? And what are some of the things that should be on the table as far as to make them successful so that we move on? Kenyan problem lies in Kenyan hands. We might need a friend or two from abroad to help, but we understand us. Remember, Ruto is a child of Rila, raised politically by Rila. And every other person, mostly those people even on the government side, they have been in the wings of Rila. And even if they rise and deny the truth, it haunts them when they are alone. So as I said, Baba is not fighting for himself. A solution might be having an opposition office years for future as well so that we can calm down what usually happens without our results because of how it is done. Why were the lights, everything, television not running anything anymore for the last two days before they announced something was wrong? And even the body language, those people who have done psychology, the time even Chibukati was announcing, he was not himself. His body doubted what he's saying and at one time he said he does not, those are the results that he has been brought. Anyway, that is now history. All the leaders in Kenya, whether an MCA and MP all the way to the president, from today, must be very, very responsible of what they say, inciting Kenyans all the time will not help because the Kenyans that we are leading today are not fools either. I read comments in all the sides, I mean all pages of Kenyakwanza and my side reading comments. Kenyans are awake and they are aware of who's taking advantage of them here. But going to the streets did not help. Going to the streets does not mean also that we are idle, we are communicating. There are people who think that going to the streets is because we want to go to snatch power. Power is taken years, but when Kenyans who cannot come out and talk and say how things are, some of us are representing them. We were just saying this cost of living is becoming unbearable. It is a way of communication. It is the police who start problems. When people are just walking and talking about the cost of living, then you start throwing tear gas. We will start running. And when we start running and somebody is still following you throwing tear gas, you will look for anything around and also try to throw. Usually it starts torn, which does not even hump. So it is the police who are Wachokosi. I have seen other developed nations, the police walking together with demonstrators and they ask them where are you starting from and where are you ending. And they walk peacefully. The police also sideways just monitoring up to where they now unleash their grievances. But here in Kenya, immediately you have come out tear gas and bullets. The office of the position leader, how is it going to help in improving the cost of living? It will help because these people are not just occupying the office, but they have a vision for the people. And it will calm when usually we doubt the results. Instead of fighting at least this leader will tell her people or his people that it is well. We will still be viable through this other avenue. So like I said, Ra'ila had a beautiful vision for the Kenyans. People who hardly earn and don't have the energy, the elderly, single mothers, the widows who are poor, like the ones I visit, could be earning 6,000. And in the village, 6,000, for someone who is not extravagant, they can still put something on the table. If you go to hospital today and you have no money, you will not be treated. And yet it's a right to be treated. So many things, education, look at what has happened to universities. Universities are going to remain for the halves. The have-nots will be seeing universities as a dream, a place they wished to reach. Very expensive school fees. Ra'ila had said free. Now people will not even be thinking of giving birth. Go to developed nations. They don't have children. They are paying women to be pregnant because of bad decisions that were made earlier. By the time now they were making good decisions, the women and the men were afraid of expanding their families. Today, if we continue like this, even our young girls will not want to have children. Why? They are looking at how their parents are struggling. Not thriving. And they'll be saying, why should I have children? Let me, if I cannot take care of myself, why should I add another person to go through what I'm going through? I better just lock that side and manage me first. So we will have a gap. There will be no generations to come for some time. Or there will be a quick drop, a drastic drop of generations. So people will not give birth because, one, they don't have disposable income. Two, they don't have even land because now with the bulged families, the smaller acres, their parents have been subdivided into sons and nowadays also daughters. And it's because the country does not even reason enough to see how to balance things out. It is already spilling. Problems only. And what we are seeing every now and then, there is no immediate solution that is coming out. You saw the highlight. I know you're representing Lombone Nation as well. It seems like the Luya Nation is in Tamil. And there's been that contestation between, you know, Prime Cabinet Secretary, that is Mudavadi and Speaker Moses Weitangula, to find ground in which they can unite the Luya Nation. Who should be uniting the Luya Nation? Who is it? Every Luya should be part of it. And I have worked with both of them. The speaker is my speaker today in Parliament. I was in ANC for 10 years. And looking into the two, going at each other, I think Are they going at each other or is it just political rhetoric? That's what is perceived. Luyas are very democratic. If you really want to understand democracy, go to Luya Land. People choose where to belong. It's a risk, but also it's a plus. It's a risk when you need all the votes in one basket. You can't get them. But it's a plus because we've grown. That is civilization. And because the two figures have been like up there, and I respect both very much, I think fresh blood is needed too to help the Quagmire be eased. Both are very capable. Another one is more quiet. The other one is more loud. But both are viable. If you look into Honorable Wetangula, he has some youth reasoning in him, which many people during politics would love. The other side of Mudavadi, he's more quiet. He needs some ignition. But I'm not putting him off. I'm just saying we need a newer face to help. If they must be there, we need some newer tricks, newer strategies to make it palatable to the Luyas. But it's a high time also in Luya Nation came together to help us negotiate better. Because the way we do things, we go into 18 different directions. And it's easy for an enemy to penetrate and divide us very well and win. But the day we will come to one voice and say, no, this is our direction. We are not even number two in population in Kenya. We are number one. Somebody played their own things up there and put somebody else number one. But I believe that Luyas have the numbers to rule this nation. Yeah. We know somebody will say it's not just about the Luyas, also other communities as well. But then somebody also mentioned. Anyone who was born and raised in Mulembe Nation is a Mulembe person. Whether they speak Kikuyu, Kamba or Somali. My friends speak Luya. I have a friend called Nur in Busea. When he speaks Luya, Kihayo, he's even better than me. And yet he's Somali. So we normally don't mean that Luya per se, but anybody who emigrated and lived in the Mulembe Nation, whether Sabotee, Tesso, they are also Mulembe people. And what are the obstacles that make this community to note? You know, somebody would say, bearing the fact that, you know, the Cabinet Secretary's position and, you know, most of us were tangler's position. Somebody said this was an opportune moment for the Luya Nation to reunite and even shine. You know, if you are a dog and you have no teeth, how can you bite? That portfolio is a lot empty. And a few of the roles in it is a duplicate of another heavy-weight department, ministry. So it was just like giving somebody a present, a goat, but hold on the rope. So it's a good big title. But what is it in it? Does it really give or leave an impact? That's my, I was proud of it. I was like, at least this big name, big title has come Western. But then what does it have? Actually, most of the roles when I was digging in are somewhere else. And that means if somebody does not really is keen to empower you, then they will put more weight in the other ministry where they can run those roles as you just wear suits and sit in the office, occupying the office. But the portfolio is weakened. Yeah. As we go, what do you think should be done to ensure that we stabilize the economy of the country? Now that we have El Nino coming up in just, in fact, a week and less, in less, El Nino is coming, things should be moving straight forward. And we need possible solutions to what we are suffering from right now as we exit. This is your camera. Our unit is paramount. If we are still talking differently, we are speaking in tanks left, right. Without unity, how can a solution come? We need, the way Baba said, we wait no man demand or no way. The other side of government should also be serious and come clean and be open and be also faithful. You know, you can have a partner who's not faithful and that really stops you from thinking solutions because unless we have people who are like nailed to the core of why we even came up with this by partisan talks, then we are actually wasting time. So we need some genuine people on the table to run this course, to bring something, to push the baby, a bouncing baby alive. And that is Kenya. So the unity that we are hoping that will be there is really long overdue. We want Kenyans to be united. It's so divided at the moment. And we also need people behind curtains, what they tell their people should actually reflect how the people react in the open. So you'll always see that there is insincerity in some of the leaders. Their handshake does not match the smile. Like me, when I say Baba really wants Kenya to be peaceful and progressive and Baba loves development, I mean it. But listen to other Kenyans aside when they talk. They don't mean what we really wanted, like in bipartisan talks. They don't mean. In fact, they are thwarting it and derailing every process of it. Meaning, there is somebody advising otherwise. So Kenyans who are beloved told, yeah, we are talking, we are progressing, we are going to have this and this and this. But then when they go back behind the curtains, it is something else that is said. Okay, we have to bring it to our close. We should have, we would have a whole day with you to just, you know, give insights. But thank you so much for sharing your insights, your journey as well. We can't wait to host you again. Anytime. Right. And definitely that's why we put it at close. That has been Honorable Catherine Omanio, Busier County Member of Parliament and the newest Deputy Secretary General, ODM, sharing with us his heart insights. Well, I got to get it right. I got to get it right. Let's not, we got to take a very short break. We come back with much more including MCM. So stick around for that.