 Good Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening and welcome to another episode of get ops guide to the galaxy I am joined by my shirt twin and that's right fellow teammate Christian Hernandez Christian we have a special guest today Yes, we do. Yes, we do. Thank you. And actually this was an accident for those of you watching we actually did Courtney So cool, yeah, so we do have a special guest I've been lining them up a lot of a lot of cool special guests We have another one here Dan Garfield from from Codefresh Dan I'll let you let you introduce yourself and then we'll we'll get to talking about a lot of cool stuff That's happening in the get-offs world. Sure. Yeah Thanks again for making it happen excited to do it For those that don't know me my name is Dan Garfield and the co-founder and chief open-source officer of Codefresh and If you're wondering the acronym is coso, but I like to call it so so Feels better Yeah, more humble, right? And my background, you know, I was a full-stack engineer for a number of years and then Spent a lot of time on the the comm side of things and done a lot of evangelism work Google developer expert and member of the Forbes Technology Council and Basically just want an excuse to talk about get-offs talk about DevOps talk about delivering software Probably my favorite thing to do in the world is Go to conferences and talk to people in the hallways. Yeah, this way The real meaty, you know uncensored unplanned stuff. That's my favorite Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. That's why I'm kind of kind of excited to have Dan here He said, you know, hey, you know like what should I do to prepare and I would say we never do but we like to keep this as a As a hallway much as a hallway track feel much much more less of a webinar and more more talk showy I like to tell people that you have a general idea I do have a general idea. So I do have a rough Rough outline, but I never mind deviating so Dan is actually also a part of the get-offs working group, right? And so Dan You're a co-chair. I believe you're one of the one of the co-founders as well for the get-offs working group You know kind of can you talk to us a little bit about like the why of the get-offs work group? Like we had Scott on before we kind of talked about it a little bit But I Still don't think people understand what we're trying to do With the get-offs working group. So can you talk a little bit about like how all that came about? Yeah, so a lot of people know that the that get-offs is a concept came out of we've works a few years ago and The idea was really simple, you know We just you wanted to have some it you wanted to build on the ideas of infrastructures code and kind of codify Where to go with it and what we saw happening over the last few years is this term get-offs people are like I really like that. I really like this idea of like I'm doing operations by pull requests I'm doing operations through git and that feels like a good pattern I'm embracing the infrastructures code stuff and what we found really quickly is that get-offs was like Spreading out suddenly and people were like talking it like oh, I'm doing get-offs. Oh, like I'm doing get-offs I'm not doing get-offs and and and then people were like well, you know I do a git commit and then and then something gets deployed, you know three days later I'm clearly doing get-offs and it's like well, maybe Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, are you I don't know yeah, so the just like kind of funny backstory I Was talking with my team and somebody on the team suggested that we start this consortium consortium Around get-offs and so I started talking to a few people and I was like, yeah, we could start this thing This would be really cool and I was like I Should probably talk to we've worked since they like Did invent the term. Yeah And and I reached out and I was like hey, I'm starting this consortium. We want to do da-da-da-da and It was Daniel Litzo from we've works and he was like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea So we actually have five people signed on already. Will you be the sixth? And I was there you go. Oh, oh, so I'll just I'll just merge into what you're already doing. Yeah, cool Yeah, so it was like, okay, this yeah, well, this is perfect. We had the same goals in mind. Yeah And so it was way more effective because he'd you know, they'd already recruited GitHub and Azure AWS was already signed on so it was like, oh, well, this is perfect Like we were we were just starting to talk to those people and and so we kind of coalesced around that and in terms of mission We want to set a really clear Standard for what GitOps is a really clear definition and and I kind of take this as a learning a little bit from DevOps Where DevOps has come to mean like a lot of things like You'll you know the old joke. What's the difference between? IT and DevOps it's about a hundred and fifty K a year. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Exactly exactly. Well, it's and it's funny because you do see it like well DevOps is a practice It's not necessarily a position, but you see DevOps DevOps engineer like Really mean because so yeah, it's definitely has become like one of those things. Yeah, that's the that's the big difference It's 150,000. Yeah. So so to have this standard That is like no, these are these are this is what it means if you're doing GitOps These are the things that you're doing. It's not meant to be gatekeeping and say, oh, you're not really doing GitOps But it is meant to set like, you know, this is this is where you want to get to this should be where you where you go And so if you come into the room and you're saying, hey, we've fully adopted GitOps And then you're looking at the standards and you're saying, oh, there's some stuff in here that we haven't been doing Well, it's food for thought, you know, I mean, it's not like you have to adopt it But to get a bunch of companies in the room and at this point I think we've had over like 70 different companies participate in the principles formation and sign on as interested parties and things like that So to get the collective knowledge of all these people coalescing That's not only useful to give us a roadmap of where to go But it's also useful for companies building products like AWS, for example They want to make sure that their infrastructure is complying and can be managed in a GitOps kind of way So to give them like the template of like, this is what it is That helps them do that. So it's not just for that. It's also to create patterns. It's also create standardized ways of approaches to things So that ultimately all of us should spend a lot less time reinventing the wheel We should be able to kind of just pick up patterns and move forward and save a lot of time ideally Yeah, I like what you said, like it's not necessarily gatekeeping and it's not gatekeeping. It's not saying that Oh, you know, um, I don't I'm not blessing you in in, you know, right? Like you are It's it's more of a goal, right? Like if I want to do GitOps Like, okay. What do I do? What standards do I follow now? There's like, like, um, uh, you know, industry Standard or a a vendor neutral way of meeting that And less of a like you're out of the club. It's like, no, if you want to be in the club, you know Here's here's what you do, right? And and it's not like like you said, Dan It's not for everyone people. I've talked to people. It's like, well, we're not ready to do all that And I'm like, that's completely fine. Right? Like that's there's no right or wrong wrong way. Yeah, right. Yeah, like if if yeah Yeah, exactly. Like there's no right or wrong way if you like doing event driven that works for you. You're not gonna Change anytime soon. We're not saying you're wrong We're absolutely not saying that so I always think of it like I think it was David Fincher who said There's infinite numbers of ways you could film a scene But ultimately, uh, there's really only two and one of them is wrong Um, yeah So I feel like yeah, there's infinite ways you could do this Though we certainly do see a lot of ways that are like, maybe not the right way Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which is uh, which I think I think it's really great that we um, that the working group has all these All these minds coming together. It's really like a think tank, right? It's less of a of Uh, you know a club and more like, hey, let's bring all of our best practices and kind of just distill that Um, so it's it's really exciting to see definitely Yeah, I had a conversation with uh, you know, kind of a I don't know if you call him like a gray beard like somebody that's been Doing software delivery for like 25 years, you know, um And uh, he was like he's like you get ops people with your your hipsters and your We were doing this stuff in the 90s He's like we we had like components that were on the infrastructure that were pulling and deploying and um I was like actually like pretty excited to hear about what Like they had been doing, you know 20 years ago and uh, and how advanced it was and And I kind of thought about it. I said, you know I think what we're really trying to do Is what Henry Ford did. Yeah, Henry Ford didn't invent the car But he made it so everybody could drive one So we're really trying to take the stuff that you guys were doing which is awesome And distill it and make it simple and easy to adopt and this is where we're going with Argo, right and red hats like a big part of that Um, this is where where uh, weave is going with flux It's about making all those components just like turnkey and accessible and it's like let's just get it out to the masses So it's really like distilling A lot of that old school knowledge Into the new school, right? Yeah, I know and it's definitely um, it's I always I always say that the get-offs is a um Is the uh, the proof that all that stuff that you know, your great beers have been doing, right? I like that term. I'm gonna use it. Sorry. It's not disparagingly. By the way It's lovingly. Yeah, it's lovingly. Well, we're taking all this cool stuff that you were doing It's kind of like a a be like yes like what you were doing is awesome Let's take that to the masses now, right? It's like a it's proof that you know, it's it's not it's not a that it's new It's right. We're making it cool like let's package it up and build it in such a way that it's repeatable in mass Zach same kind of principles as you know Uh, what's it called? Geez not supply line supply chain assembly assembly line Assembly line sort of thing, right? It's like, hey, I want to deliver my application. Let's send it along the assembly line This is how you kind of do it um And and it's really like, you know, chris like what you said I always mention your your quote, right is like get ops is like the the holy grail Of dev ops, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. It's like it's what dev ops has been trying to do and like now We're in that place, right with with kubernetes and and um and software like argo cd and things like that. Um That we're actually getting to that point where it's like, yeah We can actually do a lot of the stuff that we've been trying to do all these years Fine. Um, yeah. Yeah, finally. Yeah So dan, I know that um uh You guys, you know, I I interacted with you guys With you specifically but uh with code fresh, right? Like not even in the get ops working group But also with like with argo cd community Um, can you tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing over at code fresh? What it would um You know what what what you're doing with argo? What you know all the um, you know, what what is it? Well, what's that saying like, uh, what is what would you say you do here, right? Sort of cool, right? So can you kind of just go go over? Um, what you guys are doing over at code fresh? Yeah, so uh, so we uh, just as a philosophical approach, right? So like when we launched, you know, five years ago Um, that was before we knew if it was going to be docker swarm That was like everybody was talking about that was going to be the future, right? And it was still a lot of like mazo sphere, right? It was another Yeah, mazo sphere was big out there. Um, and you had uh, what was that? Um open platform open What was it called? Um, I can't remember open stack. Is that what it was? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah I remember there was open stack. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so it was like a lot of different stuff going on But we know that like containerization. This is the future and we want to make a big bet here and within a few like You know within a few months we we got really deep into the fundamentals of all the different technologies And we're like, you know, we really think kubernetes is going to be the future We think this is where it's going to go, right? And so, um, our whole platform that we built in code fresh is really built around the idea of Building and deploying software in a cloud native way Now that doesn't mean that we don't have customers who are Deploying to vms or building android apps or whatever we do We you know, those people are there and they can run the stuff But um, the big advantage comes when you're when you're using stuff like kubernetes if you're using serverless if you're using those cloud native technologies and uh, so We would kind of talk about ourselves in terms of cicd when we start in But it's really become apparent that cicd is just like It's a term that's been completely destroyed when people hear cicd They think ci That's for building stuff And so you're like well, okay, like what what are the deployment elements that you should have to be a cd? What does that mean? And it's like well, you should be connected You know to production in some kind of way or have some kind of Feedback loop coming from production and it's like well a lot of cicd tools don't really have that they're just You have scripts that maybe connect into a deployment or something like that And it's like well And it should be done in a declarative way and you should have monitoring and you should be able to do rollbacks And you should be able to link up information because ultimately the push and pull of What keeps people from deploying more often is usually about fear It's usually like I want to deploy more often except I don't want to have downtime Right and why don't I want to have downtime? It's expensive and it's hard to figure out what's going on and by the way I have 1500 microservices I could have a regression in one that causes a bunch of errors in other ones And I may not get that right away and it's like okay. Well now Now that I have 1500 microservices like I don't know what's going on and so Well, we're what we've been doing with code fresh is really built around solving that problem The problem of deployment at scale for the enterprise. How do you know what's going on and philosophically? Um, you know instead of being an all-in-one platform, right? And I think open shift is a great example of like a kind of an all-in-one platform, right? That does a specific job that's like encompassing really well You know get lab has a very all-in-one approach where it's like you store your source code here And you do your appointments here We kind of said we want to be we want to connect with whatever get provider you're using And we want to connect with whatever deployment environment you're using And then we want to be completely inclusive about that But then we just want to let you integrate with the best and breed tools across the board You like sneak for security scanning great plug it in it's going to work great It's going to be like a first-class citizen, you know, you want to use You know aqua security great you want to use get lab. You want to use get hub You want to use bit buggy you want to use vs code great You want to use gcp? You want to use open shift? You want to do Some vm deployments whatever that's great We're going to be agnostic about those things because we're going to be really really good at that deployment, you know loop and process so What we've really been doing lately this over the last year is We we've had this This product that we call code fresh cd, which is really oriented around like Connect to an environment and send a deployment right so this is more the traditional cd tool So competing with like a spinnaker with like a harness those kinds of those kinds of folks What we launched last year was our get ops product Which is built on top of our go and really the way that we're thinking about code fresh today is You like our go we like our go You want to get the most out of our go What if you want to do it at scale? What if you want to do it with with extra security and like you know Identity management and all those kinds of things and what if you want to do it with support? That's where code fresh is going to come in and we're going to provide a lot of value on top of that so we have customers like We have a health care customer that basically has a They actually have a kubernetes cluster basically in every hospital Um really cool use case. They used to update these things. They didn't have a cluster before right But they used to have services that they would run in these hospitals And to update them somebody would have to walk in with a usb drive Oh, um, you can imagine it's like it's health care, right? So it's it's high security. It's high stakes. Yeah, and If you think about it, it's like well We can't we can't open up vpn tunnels to every hospital That's nobody's feeling really good about that and like handing the keys over to code fresh to like go connect vpn All these things like no, no, no, that's not going to be the approach So what we've done is we've deployed Is they've deployed the code fresh get ops Agent which is built on top of argo and has some additional like tooling on top of it um Into all of those clusters and then they manage it from a single control plane And so now they can get updates out, you know right away immediately and uh and when you think about that with health care, it's like That's pretty much cutting edge. Yeah, yeah for health care. That's really cutting edge. Yeah they're usually risk averse in terms of like adopting new technology for obvious reasons, right and um That's uh, that's great. So code fresh sounds like a a um the glue right that essentially You know, um, it's like hey, you have a kubernetes cluster. That's cool. You have, you know, a build process That's cool. Hey, let let us help you glue the the bridge that gap together Yeah, and to give you an example like um Maybe I can I can even share my screen for just a second. I'll show you yeah for sure We love uh, it's a show and tell we love it. We love seeing it This is uh, this is actually code fresh production Look at that. Uh, so this is um This you're actually looking at how we use code fresh to deploy code fresh That way I'm not scared of like showing customer data or something. Yeah So today the production we've had three deployments that have happened You can see how many deployments were happening, you know over any given time period Um, and one of the things you can do is like if you were looking at a regression You could actually drill down and be like, I want to see all the deployments that happened during this time frame Um, because this is when my regression started and you can you can see all those and once you do you can see like, okay Not only do I see like the commits and the pull requests and what what services were actually updated but I can actually jump straight into the uh, the the Jira issue And like see what issue was being solved with this deployment And so when you're trying to track down like, okay, I've got 1500 microservices. I've regression something is happening Okay, it started during this time period. Okay. I can see three deployments happened during that time period One of these Jira tickets is very much related to the thing that's currently not working well Okay, now I can just I can kick in and do a rollback or uh, or narrow down the issue very quickly So this gives people a lot more confidence to be able to like drill down into like You know what the potential issue might be um, and then for our for other like I would think that the You know for other customers and things like that where they have Lots of deployments lots of environments you think about somebody that has you know, 1500 clusters that are maybe In edge locations, maybe they're in bpcs or whatever to be able to Basically get the roll-up view all at once of what's happening and drill down into that That just brings a ton of confidence and you could take like argo cd is an open source product Right, so you could go take that open source and then just install it on 1500 clusters But then It gets really hairy trying to manage it and trying to manage that fleet. Yeah, how do you manage the 1500 individual special The the art the our guy the argo argos. I don't know what you would I'm still still on the fence I even call that our our guardians our guardians I guess argonauts right argonauts. Yeah, this is what they call what they call them. That's um That's pretty cool I've seen also some some of the projects that you guys are so our argo For those of you don't know is actually a a a whole project, right? It's not just argo cd There's other things in it. Um, I don't know code fresh has been heavily involved actually you guys created the The autopilot right can you talk a little bit about the autopilot and what what the Um, uh, what the use case is there Yeah, I think a lot of our argo cd users struggle with what um autopilot is trying to trying to solve So this this is really about the push and pull between opinionated and unopinionated, right? And so if you use argo cd Uh, it's actually pretty flexible Um, there's kind of some default pathing But um, if you go out and you did a survey right now of people who are using argo cd Very few of them actually have argo cd sitting in git So they have argo cd to manage git ops of all of the other things that are defined in git But they don't actually usually end up deploying argo cd with git, right? Um, so that that's kind of like, oh, yeah, like how would you do that? Like because it's like a chicken and egg problem. Like how do you bootstrap that? So that's one thing that argos uh, uh cd autopilot solves the other one is a question of How should I manage changes Across environments and how would I create like multiple targets? And then how should I do that? Do I need to have different repos? Like what branching strategy should I use? Right? Yeah, that's always the question we get, right? Like yeah, it's always a question strategy should I use? Yeah, you've given me an amazing hammer Right, but like what's the blueprint for the thing that I should actually be building, right? So, yeah Um, so argo cd is like this great great tool that you have But it doesn't necessarily tell you exactly how you should do all that stuff So argo cd autopilot is an attempt to do that and um, I'll share I'll just show like, uh I won't give I won't give a live demo because we actually just updated the syntax and I'm still Still remapping my brain and I'm yeah, I'm a little anxious about trying to do it Yeah, we yeah, we we uh, we just had a release and kris short knows this that I was struggling with some of the changes I came so I totally get it I know like syntax is like the thing that always gets me, right? Like if I have an error, I know it's syntax, right? Yeah, it might be in my brain, but it's definitely syntax. Yeah, so yeah, um, so you run you run basically repo bootstrap and uh, and you only need to be connected to your cluster once for this, um And what this will do is it will bootstrap a git repo With all of the files and and and configuration that is for the cluster And then it will connect to the cluster and then apply all those changes And then from there on out every change to your repo will be automatically reflected back into your cluster So, uh, this allows you to manage argo cd using git ops Um, and also sets up a bunch of patterns that you can just follow So if I look at this repo, uh, you can see it's been a little while since I did anything with it But in the bootstrap, um, you can see argo cd is defined in here, uh, and then we this is actually using customize Um, we are going to be adding support for helm, uh, soon. It's like the most requested feature Um But all the configuration is in there and if I went into like, uh, my projects You can see I've got a prod project and a staging project Um, and then what I can do is under my customize. I'll have my application And my application will have an overlay for each environment Uh, so I can make my commit to staging And I'll have some customization there that's, you know, specifying whatever image is going to be deployed Um, and I can have, you know, uh changes made there and so to make a change I make a change to this File Which will push it to staging and then once I'm ready. I basically push the same change into production Um, and then I'll have, uh, you know, whatever changes that whatever customizations I put onto production This allows me to move things from staging to production. And so this pattern is just it's dead simple It's really hard to mess up. Um, and I think if you're just getting started started with, um With doing get ops with doing, uh, argocd I would highly advise just starting with argocd autopilot Because you get all that stuff for free. It just bootstraps it for you It sets up the repo and then you're just making tweaks and changes there and then If your cluster is destroyed You connect your new cluster you rerun the bootstrap Um with a new environment and it'll set it up and uh and be running, you know, uh, without any without any grief Yeah, I what what I really liked, um about what about autopilot is I always take elements of what everyone's doing, right? People always ask me like, how do you do your directory structure? And I'm like, honestly, it changes week from week because I see other people's repos and I go, that's a great idea So some of the things like, um, you guys you had you had the bootstrap, right concept Now I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. I like that directory structure of like the bootstrap and then like components and overlays um And I've actually instead of using autopilot traditionally, I've done it with helm, right? Which is basically it was just a wrapper around from applying all of these um into the uh, but it's really just like a An ignition or more like this is my point of entry of deploying this way. I like how um autopilot does just all that for you. It removes Me from having to write a helm chart Right where I where I could just do, you know, because I've been writing helm charts for this and I was like, oh, you know what? It'd be nice to have like a single point of entry where I don't have to write a helm chart for every deployment that I have All right. Well, and it even like a nice component here. So you can see like if you're creating an application um, you specify the source of that application as a git repo So what do we have here? You have basically a git repo for each application And then you have a git repo for your infrastructure where maybe all of those applications that come in and all the configuration is all in One infrastructure repo. So that makes it very simple. It's like it's like a two repo approach So I've do my I'm doing my changes my application and this is basically triggering um You would want to maybe introduce an additional process here where you where you trigger like pull requests off of Application repos to your infrastructure repo, but your infrastructure repos all set up You've got, you know, you're good to go But that's what we advise most of our customers to do and most of our customers are doing is like a two stage process where they have Their application repos separate from their infrastructure repos and that solves a lot of problems That just simplifies things and conceptually is very easy your branching strategies branch protection is a lot easier I really that's that's always a point of contention. Um That that I find And it's it's not until you do it that you understand why we give the suggestion of separating your code repo from your application repo um because Uh intuitively you want to have it all in one right intuitively you want my application has a life cycle and The configuration for that application should move with the application and actually Your infra Has a completely different life cycle than your code base It's like a completely different and most and most people use trunk-based development when when using Configuration right infrastructure repos that you they basically, you know do a What would you call it a feature branch they'll test on it and then they'll just merge it into the trunk, right? Which is usually main and then they'll just delete that and it most people are like Um our heads intend to do that because they intuitively want to put everything together But actually Those are two completely different life cycles your application in your infra completely different life cycles Well, and how many people have said they're like Kubernetes, you know deployment configuration to just use latest or use something like a branch or something Yeah, just because of the awkwardness of like well use this image Id which is to my commit id but now i'm going to make a change to my deployment Which is going to change my commit id so they don't match anymore And so people end up maybe adopting some bad habits and then you end up with latest And then you can do a rollback now now now if you change get it doesn't change your you know, it just uh creates a yeah Yeah, exactly exactly. Um, all you know you uh talking about floating tags I'm completely against floating tags. So for that same reason, right like having a prod tag versus the um like an actual versioned tag Is uh that that goes against like the get-offs um Principles I guess right the fact that that you can't version the the the image because it's always pointed to a floating tag Right because I can make a push to prod and then everything changes all of a sudden so um See here see if there's any questions other there's chance been kind of lively. I mean kind of I mean there's ignoring it here. I think it's just less questions um In more zoom in for any future uh stuff. That's a good comment and then By the way the point of hey lots of plus ones for separation Uh makes the ICD and testing easier. That's 100 true and and this this also makes it a little bit easier. So like Um, you know, ideally what you've defined and get is what's getting deployed, right? And if you if you are pushing a change uh in an application repo, you know Ideally, you're able to test it before it's merged and all that stuff, you know Gets gets easier for sure Yeah, I know for for sure. Um, see here. Where are we on time? Well, we're doing pretty well on time. Let's um, so, you know, You know dan and I were part of the the the working group. Oh, by the way, our our website just went live I forgot about that. Yeah, um, I'll put in the chat open get ops dev here Some of the stuff we've been working on if you guys want to get involved in open get ops open get ops working group I put the link in the chat there. It's live. It's a great website by the way, dan again kudos to um, uh, It's someone Was a designer and executor on this Yeah, great designer. I just like the buttons. I always play with the buttons. I always like the enemy Such a simple thing The thing that we need to do now, um is we actually had like 70 people I think it was maybe I can't remember how many but a lot of people were involved in the creation of of Get ops as a standard and have said that they're interested parties But we haven't stuck their logos on the website because when they put their names there We didn't say and we're going to put these all on the website So if somebody's out there listening you're thinking hey, we've been involved in this We've we've been an interested party. We want to be part of this open get off standard Go open a pr and just add yourself as a member That that's like the quickest thing you can do is add your add your company as a member And uh, and we can just plug it right in and merge it and guess what if it gets merged it's going to be on the site So there you go the get ops right dog pudding there. Um, yeah, and it's it's only marked down So don't think you have to be a designer or anything you can just do a pr against the website Super super easy. Yeah, you can see the other ones that are there. Just copy that and plug in your name. Good to go Yeah, so i'm gonna someone asked a pr to wear a open get ops i'm gonna Put the it is open get ops open dash get ops a slash website. So i'll put it in the zoom chat. Maybe you can Yeah, yeah, I put it. Um, yeah, i'll copy paste that in there. Cool. Oh, yeah, you got it Yeah, so just slash website is the is the repo. Yeah, you can see all of our repos there The website is the one for the website intuitively so um, cool. So yeah, so we're um You know, so we were part of the working group that is driving open get ops um, we actually have an event coming up. So we actually have a A get ops con right the the the cfp is just closed We actually got a lot of submissions. So I need to block off my calendar to review those. So those of you who submitted them Thank you very much, right? So we're in the review process. Um, that'll take a couple weeks because there's been a lot um, so dan, um, I know you've been um Yeah, big things planned for get ops con right right now to day zero events at cube con, um What what is um, if if you'd like to share if you can't share just some of the things that you're thinking around um, building really building this community really building um Get ops in terms of like get ops con. What what is your vision? I I've always um in during our meetings We we actually Dan and I we talk fairly often and I you know, I always see him passionately talk about his plans for get ops con so um I like to give you this platform to you know Also, uh, you kind of talk about your ideas about get ops con and so so we've launched two new conferences this year one is Get ops con um, and we did uh, we did kind of a starter at eu which is very cool Which at kube con of you we're doing this other one at at kube con us and this will be the first time that we've opened it up for additional sponsors So several additional companies have done buy-in for open get up for keep on saying open get ops con for just get ops con um So this is actually opening up to additional sponsors and some of the community might be thinking like What do I care if there are additional sponsors there? Like what do I care if mcdonald shows up? Well, the nice thing about that is that it allows us to make the conferences bigger and allows us to bring in more people and so what we really like to do with Uh, get ops con is potentially have it be its own standalone conference next year And so for us at this kube con, we actually have a lot more people buying in if you haven't registered yet Um, if you're going to kube con and also is there's going to be an online version of it as well So it's in person and online so it's hybrid but go and register for it We want to get as many people there as we can and this is a space where uh, you know, we're really focused on argo But we want, you know, if we if we have a standard around get ops We've worked in flux as part of that right and and maybe hashi corp waypoints as part of it And maybe maybe there are a bunch of different, you know, uh implementations of get ops and what we think is Get ops as a standard is valuable And to the extent that we can make it an open standard that everybody takes part in We're going to make that pie much larger for everybody and everybody can adopt it faster and everybody can get more value out of it And it's going to be great, right? So it's not we don't we don't want to have like this essentially controlled thing And this was like like kubernetes the biggest value of kubernetes and everybody will say this over and over again Has been the api and people have said like Maybe kubernetes won't be a thing in five years, but the api will like it'll be it'll be plugged into something else Maybe but um, you know, who knows if that'll happen But that api is is really valuable and we want get ops to be the same way We want it to be a standard that it's like this can be long running This is this is how you run things in the future. You have that pull versus push You've got to define and get you've got versioning, you know, all of these principles that we've been when we've been working on and talking about Those things can be long lasting. So to have get ops con potentially become its own standalone event Not just a co-located event, but like Three days talking about how to do get ops and like pushing the envelope. Okay. How do we bring it to vm's? How do we bring it to these other services? How do we bring it? To stateful services and and there's so much to talk about in deployment and life cycle management here That I think it could easily be its own standalone conference That could be really big. So that all depends on how many people register and the sponsorship levels and all that stuff So if you're thinking about it, we'd love to have you And I will tell you that the cfps and you've seen this christian and chris. You're on the committee as well Um, cfps has been really good. We've got some really really cool talks. We've got some hard choices to make. Yeah, it's a good problem You're not making it easy. Yeah At some point we we we basically we we were looking at like five We'll we'll see if this you know goes in maybe I shouldn't speak about it too much But we've got like a bunch of really big name companies that are doing get opposite scale And it's like geez like maybe we can at least get a panel with all these people because there's so much to talk about There's plenty enough for a full conference next year. So The the day zero event at coop kind I think will be really cool Yeah, no, definitely. And I think I think that I think you hit an interesting point that I wanted to make is Is that like we have just so much content that it literally can't fit in one day So sponsorship is important so we can make it a three-day event so that way we can have multiple tracks, right? We can have Multiple speakers we can include more people we can have lightning talks We can have labs if you want to right like instead of just having these short talks It'd be it'd be uh, it'd be a it'd be a great thing, right? So like if you know, you don't have to be like diamond level you can pitch in sandwiches you can right you can do right Your your your company doesn't you know, it doesn't doesn't have to drop in on yeah You know, you can provide coasters. Maybe I don't know but I think it'll be a really cool networking opportunities to like Well, you know a chance to meet people if if you're comfortable coming to la Um, I think there'll be a lot of like in-person benefits that you know We'll try to replicate online as best we can but we all know that we kind of can't Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah And I'd also say all the people Making suggestions about stuff that they'd like to see you've got three of the committee members here like blow up the chat with the stuff That you want to see Right, like it's going to be a hybrid event and you know We're having the same thing going on with the kubernetes contributor summit right like it's hybrid We kind of know how we're going to do it But it really like I might have to get there a day early so we can spend sunday actually testing to see if we can actually do it Right, like it's yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, it trust me like this like doing event streaming stuff like we need to make sure it's as good as possible for y'all Um So, yeah, like I'd look yeah, well, I've already people been reaching out to me like, oh, I'm in europe But I really want to be involved right and I want to do it virtually. I'm like, yeah, dude, you know, um, You know doing it virtually. Well, we'll try our best really hard to Make it as as inclusive and as and as fun as possible. I know there's a ton of content out there. Um, what I like uh about having I can actually get ops con is that um like separate from kubecon is that kubecon day zero events Are now becoming it's like hard to attend Well, now there's day negative one. There's day zero and yeah exactly because like full stuff day negative ones full of stuff like I want to Attend a spinnaker one, but that's at the same time as this other one and it's like well, which one do I attend? There's only one one day zero, right? So, um, even the you know, cloud native con kubecon Even the day zero stuff is starting to get crowded, right? So, you know, the more the more stuff we got um More attendees we got the more, uh sponsorship we got the more we can make the case for actually having a full event, right? Um, and speaking of events right then. I know you want to talk about argocon, right? Like we're busy guys by the way um So I want to talk a little bit about about about argocon Um, that we're supposed to be having I think I believe at the end of this year, right? Yes, and I'm very excited about argocon before I say something about chat is asking me if code fresh is sas only, right? No, code fresh is sas hybrid on-prem Go check it out. So I I can't ever let somebody ask me say code fresh is sas only right without me saying no I'm contractually obligated to interrupt any conversation to But uh, but argocon this is really exciting. We're doing the first argocon ever There's never been a conference for argo and if you look at argo and like, uh, we're We've been when kind of a competition between argo workflows and argocd to see which one gets to 10k first And argo workflows is now at like 9600 and argocd has fallen to like 6800 Friendly competition, you know, I definitely go start those repos if you get a chance But there is a lot of interest in that community. There's a lot of experts in that community There's a lot of excitement there and it's growing faster than almost any other Project out there. It's growing faster than any other cd related project That's that's out there certainly is popular at all. So it's it's been growing very quickly So for us to be able to host argocon and we're doing in partnership with red hat So it's code fresh and red hat are hosting it Sponsorship is open too, you know, if other people want to come and sponsor we want to make it open as possible Um, we're going to do it in sf and we'll also broadcast it. So we'll have an online component as well currently tickets Are 99 dollars, but early bird pricing is available. You can get tickets for 20 bucks for the in-person and online is free So that's um, if you haven't registered go and do it right now It's just just search argocon throw it throw the link in the chat. But um, yeah This will be really cool. We'll have the maintainers there. You'll have a chance to talk with maintainers Uh, we'll have some some fishbowl sessions and we'll also have a lot of people are submitting talks right now We already have a lot of the cfps have been really really good for that one as well And lots of people who are doing argo at scale you want to you want to hear from somebody who's got You know A few thousand clusters under management with argo cd. You want to talk to somebody who's doing You know millions of argo workflows And even a plug-in with like argo rollouts and and to hear about like argo events Which is like a whole another, you know ballgame There's there's so much going on with argo and then we also have argo labs a lot of people Don't know about argo labs, but argo cd autopilot is an argo labs And there's some really cool data pipeline stuff coming up in argo labs So like to be able to feature all that content. We really needed our own standalone conference to do it So, uh, very excited that so far the registrations have been like beyond expectation. So, um I actually thought when we put up get ops con I was like get ops con will be really really big and argo con You know, it'll be a little bit smaller and it's like argo con might outcase Yeah You're gonna have to call the hotel and uh, and tell them we're gonna need another room or something You know, we might have to expand the the size and scope. It's it's been it's been really really good response Yeah, I'm actually registering right now. Um, yeah, I have people pinging me actually excited now about about like like, you know Here on slack and then the red hat slack about argo con. So, um Yeah, that's that's gonna be that's gonna be really cool Argo con san francisco I'll be there get the 20 dollar one because like even even if you're not sure because it's like for 20 dollars, right? Like it's oh my god, you're saving yourself any books. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just say You know, you can that that expense will fly under the radar. That doesn't even do a blip on me But like was this a lot like it's more like yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're getting a conference ticket for this Yeah, yeah, exactly Yeah, they they actually think they will actually won't believe you they actually think that you're trying to do something else Because so yeah, definitely get the early bird. Um, it's it's gonna be um, it's gonna be awesome red hat's gonna be there You know into it Code fresh all the and i'll say too the first year of any conference is almost always the best one Like always the best year. Yep Was like off the hook and like yeah, you're just hanging out with like you're like, oh, it's like There's sullenman like he's just yeah Yeah, exactly with like you just get to meet everybody. Yeah And um as the project grows like guaranteed you like next year, you know in two years Like it'll be a little bit, you know, there'll be a lot more people there And it'll be more challenging to connect with with people in a significant way. So Uh, those are always my favorite. Like kube con is almost getting a little too big for me now Yeah, yeah I mean, it's like a beast right now. It's like, yeah Um, which is why all the day zero events now are happening. Um, cool. Yeah, I get longer Yeah, just make it longer Pretty soon kube con is gonna be three weeks long. Um, dude that my company code fresh was talking about like, hey Let's do an offsite at kube con. We'll do it like the week following and I'm like So you're saying we're all gonna work like 60 hours a day Yeah It's not 60 hours a day But we're gonna work like a crazy amount for like a week and a half And then we're gonna do an offsite, right? I can't afford the marriage counseling guys. I know Reimbursed or what but uh, yeah Like when I told my wife, I might have to go on saturday instead of sunday. She was like, do you have to? Yeah, exactly. You know, and that's one day I'm catching up here on on chat here. Yeah, um, I'm doing a bad job of that today. So yeah, who knows Yeah, well, he had thought it was always just a managed service Yeah, so people thinking so I I can see why code fresh code fresh Yeah, I thought it was a managed service. So there you go. So it's good actually that you said that out loud now that you have it Yeah So our our SaaS offering is certainly popular, but our most popular is our hybrid offering Where like we'll we'll manage the control plane for you But all of your components your build components your deploy components all that's on your infrastructure That hybrid model has become really really popular. So that's like The the the majority of our customers are doing that hybrid model where they have all their secrets All their stuff is on their own infrastructure, but they have a control plane that they manage that we manage And that way you like updates are automatic and all those kinds of things that's really helpful But we do have people uh and banking customers and finance Customers come to mind that are doing a full-on prem where they manage the control plane themselves But we've actually had customers who said we're going to do the full-managed control plane You know our security people won't do it And they're like well, we'll install we'll install the hybrid Today because it'll take us five minutes and then we'll talk about you know You always have to have meetings when you're installing the big stuff. Yeah And they'll end up like six weeks later. They're like so now we're going to move forward with the on-prem and they're like the on-prem what Like we just like the hybrid we've we've already like everybody's adopted They're deploying they're managing and all our security people are happy. So we'll maybe we'll stick with that But we do have the on on-prem too. So two questions. There's a yeah two questions. You want to go ahead chris so What is a good container image scanning tool in conjunction with code fresh Uh, yeah, I think I mentioned a couple like sneak is good aqua's good Twist lock is good. I don't know if I have a really strong opinion If you're if you're doing open source claire scanning is pretty darn good and has Basically has most of the same database stuff that exists in the premium offerings So I would like start with that but then I like any of those Triviz a good one too um And then what is the type of cfp talk we're looking for at argocon Yeah, so yeah, we definitely I mean and and I think both of you aren't probably on the Are on the talk. I think you're both on the talk committee. Yeah for that as well Um, definitely end user talks, you know, we want to see people that are doing really interesting things with argo There was a great talk Um, if if you're not in the argo community meetings that happen once a month There's usually a talk that's given once a month or so by a different, you know End user of argo and like we had somebody give a talk one time about doing argo cd air gapped Really interesting possible. Yeah. Yeah, and it was really cool how they set that up So that was really interesting to hear about so interesting use cases interesting end user stuff And interesting doesn't always mean you're doing something like weird like uh, like I'm not Like oh, I'm not I'm not air gapping argo cd and dropping it out of the c 130 So like is it really weird, you know, is it really interesting enough the truth is that um Even just even just a story about like how you got your organization to buy in That's something that people deal with is a challenge So just think about the unique things about your use case and maybe it's maybe it's a lot of scale Maybe it's just how simple you've made it. Maybe it's how you got people to adopt it End user talks definitely, you know, take the cake. That's what we're looking for the most If you have interesting projects you've built on top of if you're if you're doing some stuff when argos In argo labs and you want to talk about like a project you want to get going there? um We we one time at a helm conference have somebody come in and give a talk that was like here's everything wrong with helm and I think really it really interesting. Those are always good like those articles like No, we don't use kubernetes was a really popular one last week, right? Like I love I love reading those because it identifies areas where improvements can be made And and the person that gave that talk is well known And really really highly respected and so the talk that they gave Became the roadmap for helm 3 um, wow, so I will say if you are going to give a talk that's every everything that's wrong with argo I would say put a lot of detail in that cfp because yeah, yeah, exactly. I really want to believe you, you know Well, I also the ones that are really interesting is that like I broke my cluster I was yeah bar to everything This is my experience. Those. Yeah, like that those are also interesting. Don't think like it has to be a success story either Like if if you have You know, this is what I tried. This is how it messed up. This is what I would do different is always always welcome I think those are Those are also insanely popular as well. So it doesn't have to be a feel-good story either No, but we like although we like feel-good stories. We like feel-good stories, but like your demo Can be a demo of something that broke right like I love seeing people troubleshoot stuff, right? And so do other people right like this channel is a testament to that Yeah, we yeah, we have I messed up. Yep. How many oh gosh not just you but We have a bunch of ebooks, right then and things that are like, oh how to do Kubernetes scale how to do microservices scale the most popular ones are the ones that are like, um Kubernetes anti-patterns like these are all the things that people do wrong with kubernetes And those are like way more popular people love to read about that a lot more than they like to read about how to do something, right? Yeah, exactly, which is always always fun. It's also um, there's an old old adage. What is it? Um, if you want Like with it people too, like if you want if you want the answer If you want an answer, don't ask a question post the wrong answer post the wrong answer And and then someone will will they will will come and like, okay. Thank you. You know, it's like yeah people like bad bad stories for whatever reason um so here Yeah, so, uh, Carlos is asking Wrong like authentication is based on a single service account application controller too many people make argo cd service account cluster admin Yeah, that's that's kind of an interesting use Well, there's also an interesting use case. We we've um here at red hat We have the concept of namespace argo versus a cluster argo, right where A lot of people use open shift as a multi-tenant system And so we have this concept of having okay, you have an argo cd that manages this namespace and only this namespace You know, that's um You know it argo cd the name cd Is is is what it does right it's for application delivery. So, um, you know, it's You don't have to give it the whole Um, the keys to the castle although I would argue That that's what you want to do eventually But you know with people slowly adopting get-offs I can see why they would want it Yeah, I like to have the whole cluster under management on a single Yeah But depending on what you're doing right if you have a huge multi-tenant cluster, maybe you don't do that Yeah, maybe yeah, maybe maybe you don't do that. I'm actually more in the camp of Of of you dan where it's like I just want to give I have argo. I want to know what's going on in my cluster I don't want any drift anywhere in my cluster. So I'm gonna never all yeah, give it all So, um, and also yeah, someone says too many argo cd instances can't be a problem, right? Oh, yeah, like you can have some sprawl there. Yeah, don't do things right. Yeah, there's that's actually why people buy code fresh Right is what I was saying like is uh, I'm like thrilled. I'm like, oh, oh, how many instances you have? Oh, you have like you have a hundred instances. Cool. That's great. How's it going? Yeah, definitely just brought up an invoice right here. Yeah Like sure. Yeah, you may want 200, right? You never know, right? So, uh, so yeah, cool. So here's there's any, um Conversation here going is there a link to community meetings? Oh There's an argo community calendar Okay, that I will I'll drop in the zoom so you can post it. Yeah, got it This one This is this is all of the uh, argo community meetings Um, so this is like contributor experience all these things. So the one that you're going to be looking for is Uh, the community, where is that one? You know, make me add another calendar here My um My my calendar, I know I'm pretty sure everyone is this way right now But my calendar after adding all the calendars looks like a jacks and pollock painting, right? It's like all these colors. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, it's like it's like when do I have time? Well, I have a lot of overlapping meetings It's like hunger games with meetings now for me. It's like pretty much Yeah, it's like which which one am I I'm gonna attend more than, you know Which colors should I make the argo? So, okay, so this this is how it is The first Wednesday of every month is argo cd and rollouts community meeting And the third Wednesday of every month is the argo workflows and events community meeting So depending on which one you're interested in that's the monthly community meetings And you can see it on the calendar there. Um, so like if you don't want to go to the the contributor experience is more about like project management a few like discussion around some big issues and things like that and then we have like a ux ui Meeting that's uh, that's twice a twice a month. But the the monthly community meeting for the individual projects Um, are often the most interesting. You'll have somebody give a talk or Somebody share an interesting use case or there'll be discussion about the roadmap or you know, those kinds of things Yeah, there was a um Speaking of argo cd rollouts. There was wasn't there a workflows. There was like a security thing But it wasn't necessarily here. I'll put in a link. It wasn't necessarily a workflows thing It's just someone Yeah, I mean exposure their cube api to the public. It's like you ever put anything on the internet someone's gonna By the way, you should never have your cube api to the public. So just There's really no reason for it. There's never a good reason. There's never a good reason for that. So So I thought I'd share some of this this workflows here. Um, yeah It's more user error than an actual workflows issue. It's not like it. Yeah, it's not it's kind of similar to win. Um, kubernetes Uh, uh, tesla accidentally left their kubernetes dashboard Right authenticated again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, public. Yeah a couple other companies have done that as well Right. I remember at the at the time there was a rash of those that broke out It seemed like for sure It's like all the bitcoin hacks where nobody hacked bitcoin, but they like Just stole some rails and wallet. Yeah. Yeah, they stole somebody's wallet or something like that. Yeah, it's just some well Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's like, oh, I you have your your wallet your wallet. Uh, private key and github never do that. Um, yeah Um, that's actually that that reminds me maybe another point of get ops here while we're while we're talking about it Is the whole value of deploying more often isn't just that you get the value of You know faster releases and more features and you're more competitive But it's also from a risk perspective You're able to just patch things more quickly and almost every hack that happens is because of unpatched software That's not only just been unpatched, but it's been unpatched for a while Because their soft delivery process isn't good So while the sexy part of get ops is More features faster features our devs are happier. They're getting stuff out quicker. That's great The biggest value I would say might even be just on the security side, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, well, I like I like I always say that that get ops enables you to then do that dev sec ops that that you know, that's another another marketing phrase that's been out there is that's like, you know Bringing in security to that software delivery supply chain Whereas now, you know, since you're doing everything in a single pane of glass of get workflows Now the security guys can actually look at what's going to be in production, right? So now you can bring that in and be, you know, part of that whole chain. So I I would even encourage you and the spirit of dev sec ops to bring them in as you're setting up your argo pipeline to say Where do you need things to be done? Right for you to be comfortable and happy Exactly. It's like where where should I? Raise the word, you know, ask. Yeah, where should I invoke you? Yeah, exactly. Where are the red Where can I signal you right? We're in this in this process. So here. So we're we're at the top of the hour. Um Dan, I don't know the next few minutes. I don't know. We uh, we want to tell people You know kind of give you the platform kind of tell people what you're doing Where they can what can they reach you? Yeah, some of this stuff we're going towards So obviously go register for argo con go register for get ops con love to have your talks At those both those conferences are really fun and and and helpful where we're going is I would say that we're building on get ops in a kind of interesting way where a We're thinking about get ops and I just talked about the importance of standards a whole bunch at the top of the hour And I'm kind of now saying like and where do we want to go on top of that? So extending the standard maybe Get ops I I'd like to get to the point where we think of get ops not just as encompassing You've defined all of your deployment environments using get ops and they're managed in a way But also in a way of all of your tooling is defined in a get oriented way So like all of the policies around pipeline all the policies around security and where we're going and building is is also um instead of thinking about uh you know testing pipelines in terms of scripting thinking about them in terms of policy that's defined in get And so maybe I don't write Uh, you know, maybe I don't have a step that says do the security scan and and here's all the instructions of how to do it Maybe I just say this security scan needs to be completed Right, and this is what declaratively. Yeah, right. Yeah, and so so now Yeah, now I'm doing my Build processes my test processes my deployment processes all in a declarative way That's and all of that's defined in get So I think of that as kind of an extension of get ops But it's also a change in the way that you think about How you build an employee and and we've we've built a lot of abstractions on top of scripting Um, and if you think even like a make file is like well, I'm using a make file So, you know, it's sort of declared and it's like, well, it's also kind of a script though like if you think about it It's like a bad. It's essentially bash, right? Right and and so So, um, I I'd like us to to go beyond that and think of like no, I have a policy that describes What is needed and I don't worry about it after that and um, and that's that's true from a security perspective And again, we're not we're not a security company. We're going to integrate with every security company But to allow you to give the definition in such a way Um, I think that'll be really interesting what we're doing with progressive delivery is really exciting Where we're going with what we're building on top of argo rollouts is really interesting How we're looping together and combining all the argo projects So that it's almost like it's it's really its own distribution Of argo and it's kind of hardened for enterprise and it's you know Got some extensions for scale and things like that and then just tying it all together so that you have all the information Um, I think that's really exciting and and so that's uh, so that's stuff we're working on That's really cool. Really awesome. Really awesome. All right. So, uh, so yeah, so I guess, um Here what what are we chris? What do we have coming up in? Open ship tv here? Uh, I mean it looks we're done for the week We're done for the week sweet. Yeah, look at you. You get some time off No I wish that was the case see friday is preparing for monday and monday is preparing for everything else. Yeah um So yeah, the the next show on the channel is actually monday at noon eastern We'll be talking a little bit about disaster recovery And uh database disaster recovery specifically, which is you know kind of important You want to have a plan for that if you have databases around which most of us do So, yeah, uh Dan, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah. Thank you, Dan. I know you're a busy guy and You've got a lot going on just like christian does so it's it's awesome to have you buddy Yeah, great fun. Let's do it again sometime. Yeah, definitely Awesome. Well, that is it for this episode of get ops guided galaxy. We will see you all in two weeks Two weeks. Yeah, we'll have something fun next two weeks. So Someone's at the front door. Someone's at the front door. There you go. See you go get it All right, take it easy out there everybody. All right. Bye everyone