 Welcome everyone to today's webinar on Research Vocabulary in Australia. First off, I'll give you a rundown on what we'll be covering today. Initially we'll talk about what is a vocabulary, then give some examples of vocabulary use in everyday life and research. We'll talk about why ANS has developed its new vocabulary service and then we'll give a demonstration at the service to make sure that there's plenty of time for questions and discussion. So first off, what is a vocabulary? Well, the Getty defines a controlled vocabulary as an organised arrangement of words and phrases used to index content or to retrieve content through browsing or searching. A controlled vocabulary may be a simple list of terms or a more complex organisation of terms with definitions, translations or the expression of broader, narrower and matching relationships. An ontology involves another level of complexity involving the expression of a far greater range and number of specific relationships. And for the purposes of today's webinar and in describing the ANS service we're talking about vocabularies rather than ontologies. Medical doctors use software that incorporates vocabulary terms and definitions. They need to be able to make very precise observations about symptoms presented by a patient in order to select appropriate medicines. When using such software, the GP will not typically type in these observations but will select terms through autocomplete or point and click. The choices are controlled based on a controlled vocabulary and Australia is attempting to go in agreement on a set of terms which would enable the implementation of shared electronic patient reports. Authorities deal in vocabularies. In the United States of America, the Federal Highway Administration has an extensive authoritative classification of vehicles. This includes text descriptions and images aimed at clearly conveying or is meant by terms describing a wide range of vehicles. Vocabularies are a natural output of such authorities. In the case of the highway authority, the classification is typically used to support charging on toll roads but such classifications may also have applications to research. Vocabularies are used in information systems. Consumer sites such as Amazon are structured using controlled terms and items such as a travel wallet is categorised within a hierarchical tree that starts with clothing, shoes and jewellery, then progresses to luggage and travel gear, then down to travel accessories and finally the item itself, travel wallets. Such categorisations are enabled by controlled vocabularies and are often a complement to a text-based search or indeed combined with search and faceted or filtered search. Controlled or standardised vocabularies are an important part of research and scholarly communication since these rely on precise concepts with shared and structured terminology. The ability to replicate and test and experiment or communicate and verify a conclusion requires clear description and communication of concepts about which there is a shared understanding of meaning. As an example, paleontologists use McGree vocabulary covering time periods. This enables them to refer to periods of time and the knowledge that they agree, for example, on how a particular era relates to a particular age. Data captured by the integrated marine observing system are documented using an agreed community metadata schema. These descriptions involve the use of controlled vocabularies which underpin the indexing of data during data set registration in data delivery systems as well as provide the content for search assets available within the IEMOS data discovery portal. The use of controlled vocabularies also allows IEMOS to integrate internationally with other initiatives such as ODIP or the Ocean Data Interoperability Plan. Vocabularies are also important in enabling data reuse. As a simple example, a tabular data set in a spreadsheet would typically contain column headings describing the content of each table. A third party wishing to use this data would need to know what those headings mean in order to make sense of the data. To support data reuse, the data creator may supply a data dictionary to accompany the data set. Controlled terminology is also vital if seeking to relate data sets to each other, whether this is a relatively simple join across two data sets or a meta-analysis involving the bringing together of multiple data sets which may have been created at different time periods or across different geographic regions. Wherever data sets are linked or merged, the connections are made at points that are known to be found. Things can go wrong when there isn't a shared understanding of terminology. In September 1999, a NASA spacecraft was lost due to mismatch between metric and imperial units used by the navigation and production teams, respectively. As part of a $300 million mission, the orbiter had completed a nearly 10-month journey to Mars and was lost by being put into the wrong orbit. One agency supplied metric measurements and the other supplied a imperial. So that was a bit of a run-down on vocabularies, what they are, how they're used, and particularly how they're used in research and their importance to research. On that pass-over to Adrian, he'll talk about the ANS development of the vocabulary service and why ANS was involved in this activity. Thanks, Sean. So we've heard there how standardized vocabularies are applicable to making better research, better connections and discovery for research data, and better reuse of research data. We've had some nice examples of all of those applications of standardized vocabularies. Now, discovery, connections between data and the reuse of data are all things which are part of the core mission of the Australian National Data Service and a lot of our infrastructure and services are targeted to improve the connections between data that make it more easily discoverable, make it reusable. In sum, in general, it's to add value to data, and that is the core mission of the Australian National Data Service is to make research data more valuable. So I think we've seen in those examples that research data that has been encoded with standardized terminology that's agreed upon or at least commonly used or at least defined by a community, that that kind of data is undoubtedly more valuable than data that hasn't been done. So what can Andz then do to make using these kind of standardized vocabularies easy? You know, to make doing the right thing, which is sometimes expensive or hard, to make doing the right thing easy. And also, you know, when Andz is thinking about what a service we can provide, we don't provide obviously things which are very specific for an institution or a discipline or a domain, but we're looking for things which kind of cross the domains which are useful across every institution in Australia or across every domain in Australia. So we provide that cross-cutting kind of services for discovery and connection and reuse. And so we've now launching today a set of services that make it easier for researchers to find and use standardized vocabularies that apply to their research, that make it easier for research communities to publish and share standardized vocabularies that they are applying to their own research and a set of services that make it easy to, in fact, create and manage machine-readable forms or easily shareable forms of these standardized vocabularies. So to that end, we've got a system that has sort of three areas of functionality. One, which is around discovery and reuse and making things easier. We've got, if you like, a portal that makes it easier and then a whole set of tools, widgets that make it easier to use standardized vocabularies. We've got a publishing platform that allows you to publish the existence and the description of your standardized vocabulary as well as actually share finally crafted version of that vocabulary, an official definitive source, if you like, that's also machine-readable. And then we have a set of editing tools that allow you to craft and create, manage. An important part of managing a vocabulary is being able to work with collaborators, being able to talk over the definitions and terminology that is used, come to a consensus and then publish it out. So we have developed tools in all of those different areas and Jane will be walking us through those in a little moment. Just before we get that, I will note on how we've been able to get input into the service. As we've been developing the service over the last year, it's been part of a collaborative project with a couple of the research facilities and research organizations here in Australia, really based on their requirements and needs. And there's been a formal project since last October and we've had a release of the software that underlies the service and now we're really launching the service as a full package. It's not just IT. We realize that this is a lot to do with just promoting the awareness, creating the different communities that have the shared interests and the shared definitions that create a controlled vocabulary, making training, support materials. There's a whole set of other things around the core IT functions. And so we've been creating the service over the last year. We're very, very open to further input from any of the users particularly here in Australia, but internationally about making research vocabularies of global research interest available to our researchers here in Australia. So if you have any interest whatsoever, we're very, very keen to hear how you might be able to use the service or if you have suggestions about the areas in which we could expand. So we might now have a closer look at the service. We'll be changing over to Jane down in Melbourne. Jane, would you like to take over the screen there and then move us on? Yes, absolutely. So as Adrian said, research vocabularies Australia is basically made up of three different tools. A research vocabularies Australia portal, which is for the discovery and instruction and access of vocabularies. A repository of those vocabularies and metadata about them is stored. And an editor in which our partners can create and manage their own vocabularies. And these different portions can be used by lots of different users, either as creators and providers of vocabularies who may be unhygis, librarians, data managers, really anyone who's looking at the creation or managing or sharing of vocabularies. And consumers of vocabularies, the research groups or researchers, librarians, data managers, et cetera. So now we're going to do a little bit of a demo of the vocabulary service. And so this is the URL for the Research Vocabularies Australia portal. So this is sort of a landing page of RVA. And as you can see, we have a big long list of vocabularies that are currently available through our system. So for a lot of these vocabularies, there is metadata about them and also either links out to a provider's website or actual data that is served within this system. So let's try doing a search. All right, so I just searched for the aquarium's water. And so I'm being recommended a couple of different results. And some of these results are vocabularies that are relevant. So obviously water resources, the source, is a relevant vocabulary to my search. And then I'm also getting some vocabularies in which the concepts in them are relevant. So here we can see that the AODN parameter category vocabulary has two concepts that are relevant, physical water and water pressure. We can also do some faceting here. We allow for the faceting of subjects that are describing the vocabularies as a whole, the publishers of the vocabulary, languages which are used in the vocabulary, formats in which the vocabulary is available, ways in which the vocabulary is accessible, and how the vocabulary might be licensed. All right, so let's take a look at this first result here. So we've got the vocabulary and some metadata about it. You can see that it's published by the USGS, and it has some other related organizations. So we can see a little bit of information about those. It was created in 1971, getting some metadata about it. And the current version is the 1980 version, and this actually links out to the USGS website in which the vocabulary is available in PDF form. So this format is really great for people to use, and so you as a researcher might want to describe your research using this Phasaurus, and you can also share it with your colleagues and have them describe their research using this Phasaurus. But it's not really available in a machine-readable format, and there are some advantages that the RVA takes advantage of that a machine-readable format might offer. And we will actually take a look at one of those right now. So we're going to go to the third result, which is the AODN parameter category vocabulary. All right, so it looks pretty similar so far to the other vocabulary, but we actually have a few other tools available to us. All right, so you can see that this vocabulary was published by EMII. It has an author, and you can actually see other vocabularies that that author may have worked on as well. We can browse through the current version of this vocabulary, so we can actually drill down into those contexts. We can also search. So it's recommended us physical water as a concept in that vocabulary. For that current version of the vocabulary, we have a couple of different choices. We can query the vocabulary data via Sparkle, the Sparkle query language. We can download the vocabulary in a variety of formats of our own choice, or we can access the vocabulary via the RVA link data API. So the link data API allows us to work with the actual concepts of the vocabulary, and so you can actually see a lot of information about the individual concepts, including their unique ID and lots and lots of other very useful stuff. Actually, it's also possible to query the link data API. So I've been provided with just those four top concepts, this vocabulary and the link data API. It's also possible to view the vocabulary in various different formats. So here we're viewing the exact same thing just in JSON format. All right, so I'm going to go back to the RVA portal and show you how this vocabulary can be used via the research vocabularies Australia widget. So the widget is actually a really fantastic tool that you can use in your own system to describe or discover vocabularies. So you can actually use it for the description or discovery of your own resources in your system. So this is an example of how this vocabulary can be searched. So I've just searched for water and I've selected the water pressure concept. So you could see how that can be used to apply water pressure as a subject to a resource. And it actually also shows a little snippet of the code that allows you to implement that vocabulary. We have more information about this widget at our ANS developers website. There's actually three different modes. We were just looking at the searching mode, which here is available with the ANZ SRC-FOR vocabulary. There's also a narrowing mode, which is currently being sourced from the RIFCS vocabularies for registry schema identifier. All of the concepts in that vocabulary are available for choice here. And there's also a tree mode that allows you to drill down into the concepts and select one of your choice. So we've talked about the ways that the portal can be used and the widget can be used and the link data API can be used. But we haven't yet talked about how these vocabularies actually get into the system. So the ways to access that are through my vocabularies. And I've actually already signed in via my personal AAF account. So this, my vocabs can be used by vocabulary managers, publishers, etc. Anyone who wants to publish a vocabulary for the use of other researchers and other organizations. It allows you to describe your vocabularies very richly by adding metadata about them. It also allows you to upload or link to multiple versions of the vocabulary. So we can see here there's lots and lots of different ways that we can describe vocabularies. If you already have a system for managing your vocabularies, you can describe and link to or upload your vocabulary using add a new vocabulary. But if you don't have that, if you don't have a sort of useful way of managing your vocabularies, then you can do so privately in our RVA editor. We have chosen to use the pool party system for that. And you can actually automatically integrate those vocabularies that you've either created or managed in pool party into this system, which I'll show you in a little bit. But I'll actually take you to pool party first. So this is the system that we allow our partners to actually manage and create their own vocabularies in. And this is not available for public viewing, but it is sort of like an editing tool. And we can see here that I've created just a little silly vegetable vocabulary here with some concepts. I've created a little bit of metadata about those concepts. Right, so because our two systems are integrated, what we can do here is take the unique idea of that project and our RVA portal will automatically recognize it. And basically a lot of the metadata that has been provided in pool party will automatically be recognized by the portal. And we'll just have to add just a little bit more information before we can publish it. So we'll say that this vocabulary was created in 2015. And we will add the current version of the data of the vocabulary, I'll call it. Vegetable1 and it is being released today. I told the system that I want this to be available via Sparkle API for querying and also via the link data API through a web page. It's owned by my organization and now I can publish this vocabulary. All right, so now we can see that this is available for anyone on the web to browse. We can drill through those vocabulary concepts within RVA portal. We can also see how the widget could be possibly implemented in another system and see that code, exactly. We could query this vocabulary via Sparkle query. We can now mode it in a lot of different formats and we can also see it in the link data API. So this allows for that really, really easy integration between the vocabulary editor, which is pool party and the vocabulary portal, which we're looking at right now. All right, so that ends the demo of RVA. So I'm actually going to go ahead and hand back the presenter to Susanna. Thank you, Jane. Now there's a whole bunch of questions that have come through. Now this one says, how can we cite a vocabulary or a particular version of vocabulary? Very good question. As part of this service, there's no particular site this vocabulary in this particular way, but that's a good question. We'll take that on board as a potential future sort of functionality so that people can refer to the vocabulary itself. I mean, the portal obviously will have a URL, so there's no reason why you couldn't use the URL of that descriptive page to reference the vocabulary. But I assume that, Peter, you're asking about some more formal way of acknowledging and tracking its use, etc. It's a good question in that it certainly acknowledges that these classifications and concept schemes and terminologies, etc., are really quite an important output of scholarly activity. Certainly, empowering global research can take sometimes 5 or 10 years for a community to come together and do all the diplomacy and politics and technology and science that's required to get to a shared set of concepts. That really can empower a global community of research for decades afterwards. So that output itself is an important output of research. We've had people ask us whether people are familiar with our other service research, Data Australia, which is really a publishing of research outputs, kind of non-traditional outputs, if you like. We've had people ask if, over in that system, you could have a description of a work out, and kind of register it for people to say, yep, this is an output of our research project. And obviously, over in that system, we have set things up for you to be able to cite a data set or to cite a piece of software or something like that. So I know that's something we've been looking at through the research data Australia portal as to how you might cite these kind of things as first-class objects of research. But again, how would we make the linkage if a data set says that, yes, we use this set of terms, how would that be communicated? So that's a good question, Peter. We're happy to have other people discuss. But for the moment, we'll take that as a suggestion for future functionality, not just sort of technical functionality, but really the question, how do you share, acknowledge, and refer to these kind of very important scholarly resources and scholarly outputs? Certainly if any of the participants today are aware of working this area, we'd be very interested to hear about it. I'd imagine at the very least one would want to record the name of the vocabulary very importantly, the version, as the versions change and the relationships in the vocabulary can change. The publisher, and I'd say, are you all right to whatever is the primary publication point? I mean, who is the organisation or individual that is creating and maintaining that vocabulary? And where can that, I suppose, canonical version of that vocabulary be discovered? Yeah, we could say a little bit more about that. What is the vocabulary being used to describe the vocabularies? Which does sound rather recursive, but yes, that's the kind of thing we have thought about. Jane, are you there? Yeah, no, that's an excellent question. Currently, we are using both the ANZ-SRC-FOR, the Fields of Research Vocabulary, that is published via the Australian Bureau of Statistics, and we also allow people to create their own local concepts, so basically just subject tags. However, in the future, we hope to be able to describe the vocabularies using other vocabularies. And yes, it is definitely a very meta concept. Can a concept, for example, be shared between more than one vocabularies? For example, both in the vegetable vocabulary, but also in a recipe vocabulary. Again, a really nice question there. So, yes, the same concept is quite often present in two different vocabularies. It might be published, you know, a subset that we use, which is, you know, it might be an international vocabulary that has, you know, 2,000 concepts, and someone in Australia will say, well, we're using this little subset, and if you're using our data archive, then we need you to describe your data using these 50 of that very large potential global set. So we have already got examples like that. So you get a second, you know, a smaller vocabulary. There are ways in the background, in the way in which these vocabularies are encoded for machine use. There's a standard called SCOS, and SCOS does allow you to say the concept in this particular standardized vocabulary list is exactly the same as our concept in another one, or is, you know, pretty much the same as another one or, you know, a number of different kinds of matches. So, and that's a very important kind of tool in this knowledge management that allows you to say, you know, these two things are pretty much the same or exactly, we're actually reusing that one exactly the same in this other vocabulary. So yes, that's very much, you know, part of you. Anything else, Ron? Yes, it's one of the wonders of linked data in that each of these concepts in the vocabularies that have been published through the ANS service have a unique identifier, and that identifier can be referenced and pointed towards using other vocabularies. Here's another question. Would you permit library studies or information management students to use this service to learn about constructing a vocabulary? A good question to put me on the spot for the scope of our service. Well, let me start with saying that the normal scope for this service is research. So we're asking research groups if they are using a particular, you know, local Australian vocabulary for marsupials or gum trees or something like that to publish it. We're also asking if there are global standards for describing oceans, etc. that, you know, you use this service to publish and promote the reuse of that. In research, that's our standard kind of scope where the scope grows out. We've had, for example, some Commonwealth Science Agencies or Commonwealth Government Agencies that define things for Australia and those vocabularies are used by, obviously, you know, used by research. The example we've had here is the ABS, the Australian Bureau of Statistics who have done a classification of research and we're using that particular classification here. So the scope does move out to, you know, Commonwealth Agencies that define concepts to be used in research. We are funded by the Department of Education. So, you know, using this for students is obviously not out of scope. The kind of license that we have is based on educational institutions. So as a, in principle, you know, students learning how to create vocabularies would definitely be in scope. We'd have to obviously see how much of a load that puts on our system from a pragmatic point of view. But certainly the students today are the researchers of tomorrow and quite a lot of research is done by students anyway. So, skilling up the knowledge managers of the future is certainly something that is in our interest and we'd be very keen to make sure that this infrastructure can help to make sure that in five or ten years we've got lots of people who can continue using this infrastructure. How can we access pool party? Didn't seem to have an AAF login at the URL I copied from on screen. So maybe we'll go back to Jane to sort of walk through or at least describe how access happens there. Yeah, absolutely. So you should be able to see a link right now to the RVA documentation home which we have made available for anyone to use. So this not only would allow you to learn how to describe a vocabulary and publish a vocabulary via the RVA portal, it also will allow you to use pool party and to get registered for pool party. So to get set up with an account for pool party you can contact us at services at ands.org.au and there's also a few helpful documents on the RVA documentation that walk you through the process of getting started with that system. So, yeah, get in touch with us and do a little bit of discovery in the RVA documentation. Yes, and on that just so that it's clear on the access. Look, as far as the discovery portal, it's an open internet service so everyone, we're encouraging everyone in the world to come and browse through the vocabs there. If you want to publish a description of a vocabulary, it's a very open system. You can log in with a number of login systems. That's a very open system. We're encouraging anyone to come in and share information about their vocabularies. If you want to use the editor, then that's a slightly more restricted service. It's not restricted in that sense, but you do need to contact us to get an account to start to use that. So have a look at the documentation that's linked on the screen at the moment and contact services at ands if you want to get started using the editor. Okay, our next question is, the library world might treat an online vocabulary as a data set, a continuing resource or an electronic resource. Assuming that this is a comment around us, the discussion we had a little bit earlier about, you know, is there a resource for citation? Yes, I'm assuming this is a question about how would you refer to these things. So I think that questionnaire is saying that the library world would treat these as a data set or as some kind of an electronic resource. I suppose that's a plus one vote for finding a way of being able to acknowledge and track the usage of these things. Do you have any plans to make it possible to search across vocabularies for a specific concept? And it is actually currently possible to search in the RVA portal for a concept and be recommended to various vocabularies. And if you remember in the demo from before, we saw some concepts that were recommended from those various vocabularies in the search result. If I make a vocabulary, how do I ensure that the URIs will be valid? Is the intention that vocab.ans.org.au serves these? That's a good question. I might just get started and then I'll get some comment from everyone else. Yes, we can provide, you know, the URIs. Probably better practice is to provide a permanent URL with some kind of identifier. So you could provide them back on your own site if you have some long-lived URLs that you think you're, if you are the National Library of Australia or something like that and you think you have some long-lived site, then you're welcome to use your own URLs in a vocabulary that's published through our site. And also has a few persistent URL, persistent identifier services that you could use. So we have a DOI service, we have a handle service, we have access to a Perl server as well. So as you're getting in touch with us about publishing your vocabulary, we could talk to you about using some of those services to create your URLs so that they would be more persistent into the future. So I think there's a set of options there and I think the vocabularies, if you go through the stuff that we already have on the site now, we probably got examples of all of those different scenarios. All right, we've got another question here. A comment, there is a sophisticated handling of vocabularies as entities that can be cited and it seems that is emerging. Good, so that's a nice comment and we'll follow that up with that question afterwards. All right, another question. I'm looking at vocabs.ans.org slash particular one, platform category. I see that there is a concept vessel, no definition of what a vessel is. Does the system allow you to put in the definition? The answer is yes. SCOS, the kind of scheme that is generally used for describing vocabularies has a property that is definition, of course, not all the properties are compulsory. And these resources tend to be a kind of a continuum between a simple list, a list with some identifiers, a list with some descriptions, then you're starting to move on to what would normally be called, let's say a thesaurus or something like that. But certainly the factual question is, yes, it is possible to provide definitions. Anything else to add then? Yeah, well I suppose that in the case of the vocabulary that we're looking at, this was provided by a third party by Imos and in some cases they would or would not provide definitions. That's really up to you in that sense. It's up to the content creator to decide the extent of the guidance that may be provided. This probably gets us to the point about I suppose the scope of the AND service that fundamentally there's the provision of the technical infrastructure and the support for people to be able to use the tools, but they come in limits on the degree to which and may or may not intervene in the publication and editorial practices of the content providers. And that discussion around that area is probably something that AND will tease out a little more in time. Yeah, I have one more little thing to add there. So that commenter said that they're looking at the vocabulary in the portal and just to sort of literally answer this question, yes, RVA does allow for you to put in a definition, but that would happen at the editing point. So right now you're looking at the portal and the adding a definition would happen at the editing portion of the service. And the access to the information about the definition you'd probably be doing at a different level, not at that sort of descriptive level that we have in the portal. Right, and the definition of that concept would be visible via the linked data API which we did look at. Right, yeah, it'd be in the RDF that's downloaded or you could view it in that interface that you showed. So all right, we've got another question here. What happens to the pool party account if AND's funds end? Okay, that's a good question. So overall for our service, it's a sustainable service because it's a national infrastructure. Now of course, national infrastructure of Australia to where to become a banana republic or something like that. Then of course, perhaps the roads wouldn't work and all sorts of things wouldn't. The Commonwealth government has a national collaborative research infrastructure strategy which has been going on since the early 2000s and which is refreshed every few years. There's currently a serious review that's happening with Prime Minister and the Cabinet, the Clark Review which is about plans for the next 10 years of research infrastructure. So it's part of that big research infrastructure strategy. So you can count on it if it's a valuable service then it can be considered to be a sustainable part of that national research infrastructure. If the particular question is what happens if pool party, you no longer have access to pool party to create and manage things. We've constructed the service in a particular way that creation and management does use the commercial pool party tool which is a really nice, intuitive and easy to use interface. However, once you've finished creating it all the publication and management happens in the open source and controlled infrastructure which would continue whether we paid pool party a license or not. So the license really is to allow you to create things and manage the new versions and things like that or to use the pool party to have discussions with your community around concepts, et cetera. But once you've done that and you've got a list then we don't use the pool party for access, for publication, for discovery. All the long lived activities happen in fully and controlled and open source infrastructure. Surely to be of value definition should be mandatory. If you do not know what it means then what is the use of simply knowing a concept in terms of being able to mash up the data. I go back to Rowan's comment there. Yes, if for your particular community it is absolutely necessary to have the definition then we would encourage you to do so. I mean, Anne's is providing an enabling infrastructure. I don't think we'll have a heavy hand around quality, et cetera. If that's what's required for your community we'll help you to provide what's required. Yes, look at definition is and just to be clear about that one you may not see the definition up at the portal. It's quite possible that there are definitions for all of those or that they are, as we said before, related to another concept which is defined somewhere else. Yes, it's an interesting question isn't it? I mean this vocabulary has been created has been demonstrated to be able to be used and meet the needs of the content provider. Now what happens when that vocabulary becomes more broadly available and people may be interested in using it? As Adrienne says, there isn't questions about what Anne's role is in that area but perhaps it comes down to development of a community around vocabulary users so new users can talk with content creators about their vocabularies and suggest changes modifications because one of the primary things in the Anne's service is the enablement of a distributed and community workflow for creating and managing vocabularies. So it's certainly a discussion about content and content modifications part of that. There are also some vocabularies that are purposefully developed with no definitions for the concepts and sometimes these vocabularies are created in that way because the people who are developing them believe that you should be able to understand what the concepts are or sort of the definition of the concept based on where it sits in relationship to other concepts. So that's just one perspective there. That's all we have to add. The next question is can we suggest the vocabs to be included meaning vocabs developed by others, not our own? So that's a very good question. Anyway, back on the interface of research vocabularies Australia there is a feedback interface. Yes, so the answer to your question is yes, we are very, very keen to be led by the community as to what content should be covered in the Discovery portal. So we are extremely keen to hear from you about that. There are ways of providing that feedback through the portal or just to the services of Dan's email that's there or if you want to be involved in talking to you about what the requirements are we are keen to be involved in. Of course, as is not and doesn't pretend to be subject matter experts in all these different domains but we're happy to facilitate those conversations. Like the ability to find API endpoints in each individual vocabulary entry is there an API to query list of published controlled vocabulary entries? That's an interesting question. Can you query all the different API queries of all the different vocabularies? Yes, you can but at the moment that's a it's not something that we surface up there in the general sort of graphical user interface but it seems that you're saying that's a useful thing then we will find ways of making that more visible and we can provide that to offline as well. If we have an existing controlled vocabulary already published elsewhere and described in RDF turtle, are we able to make it accessible through RVA? If so, how would this work? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. That's part of in the Research for Vocabularies Australia we assume that we will have descriptions of let's say hundreds of research vocabularies 3,000s, let's hope not millions and there will be descriptions of lots some of those will have uploaded files that can also be used there may be several sort of access points we're very happy for this service to provide an ongoing access point particularly as it's part of research infrastructure that's really one of the services that we're hoping to provide. So there... Yes, absolutely. Can we register or find out what collections are using a vocabulary? That's a good question. I'm not sure that we have a way of doing that immediately and that's a very good question. Actually, I can go ahead and answer that. We do actually have a way of describing a service or another tool that may be using a vocabulary so if you're on the RVA portal page for a vocabulary and someone has entered information about a system that may be using that vocabulary, so for example MESH, the Medical Subject Cuttings Vocabulary is used in a lot of different systems so it's possible to enter information about those systems that are using that vocabulary and if you want to provide information about that, you can always give us feedback through the portal. Good, and the point Amanda about what data collections use a particular vocabulary is a very good one at the moment. We don't have that sort of value right between let's say research data Australia and research vocabularies Australia, but I think we will look into how to, you know, it's kind of on our back burner and we have a nice comment there that we should use Yazgui for the Sparkling points. Thanks for that. We'll take that on board as well. Thank you all very much for attending and we will see you all at our next webinar.