 Buck show Walter Buck let me ask you my starting with this the extent of the investigation and the depth with which the Astros cheated were you surprised at how detailed it was not really you know the lure to win those strange things to people you know when you're supposed to be that good at technology and all these other things that makes you wonder why you said like you have to cheat and I know a lot of people were really interested to see what was going to come down out of there some people I've talked to today think it was not harsh enough and some people thought it was and that's to be expected you know buck you've been very vocal that you think the penalties have to have some severe I guess penalties next year with on the field with the Houston Astros do you feel like the commissioner and the penalties hinge has gone Lou now the GM is gone do you think they were harsh enough for next year well John speaking of someone who's been suspended did you ever make those rounds John no okay God bless you but you know okay you know they get hurt in the draft a little bit but they're picking 30th because they finish so high you know you can reallocate that money a little bit in the other departments to make yourself well you know the lack of institution can control I mean you look at it from a college football team to get put on probation you don't go to ball games you lose scholarships and you lose your ability to win for a couple of years but you know it's different and the commissioner had a tough job here you know a lot of those things are dictated by precedent and you kind of look at you know my eyes are cast towards the brave and what happened to their general manager somewhat happened with the hacking of the computers I mean you go back as far as Pete Rose but you know it's just a it's a sad day for baseball in a way but I'm hoping we can put this behind this I know one thing if I'm the Yankee manager I've text a little bit with Aaron today I know he feels a little vindicated about some of his suspicion but when you look at the relationship between a manager and a general manager that has to be a strong relationship and when you look at this investigation Luna says he had absolutely no knowledge of it whereas Hinch knew about it and said that he tried to stop it how much does it surprise you that Luna and Hinch apparently didn't communicate about this well I know it's not as much Jack for me communication is is a presence I know going back with Jean Michael or John Hart I mean these guys were in the locker room every day they were down there five minutes after the game was over talking about the next day and talking about things and you're aware of the atmosphere of the clubhouse I don't know how much today's general manager goes down there Luna on this example you know so there's no way you can be in a locker room at this place that they need to have some control over a compliance officer we've been talking about this for years down in the clubhouse these guys really shouldn't be back up at the clubhouse the video rooms and the replay room but right beside the dugout there's so much of a temptation there and there's enough ways to get an edge on the field without using that type of technology but can you shed a little more light on your exchange with Aaron Boone today did he get into specifics of how he feels vindicated oh it was one way street you know it was just a text you know I don't want to get into that but I did miss that because I know that during that time he was free vocal about some of it and was kind of ridiculed a little bit by some of the astro people so I think looking back on I know as a Yankee fan so to speak I know it bothers me that we maybe you think about all the people that just touched people that lost their job pitchers that you know whether it be a pitching coach or you know you think about all the people that it's affected I've heard from a lot of today that you know really quite upset about it you know buck one of the things that came out of this investigation with the commissioner is the players were obviously involved in decoding the signs but there weren't any players that were suspended did that surprise you somewhat I think that's really hard to pinpoint I mean John you know you start again you look at the I know I look at the first base coach third base coach they do anything out of you're listening for sounds out of the dugout I know Matt Weeders are you paranoid or you alert you constantly listen as you did John for sounds out of the dugout when you see 12th grade fastball from the start again and the first time you throw something off speed the guy doesn't even budge there's body language you read that you see things and it raises up your suspicious flag so you know those are things you're constantly looking out for as far as players you know John you know it's better anybody every team has somebody like this you know we had somebody in Baltimore that would look at video before a series and look for something there's so many things that you can see in video and see from the dugout that you may not be able to see in the batter's box there's this relay with the first couple of hitters hey he is flaring his glove on the change up you know that's that's just understanding it's like a quarterback that there are certain things on a pass play you know those are things that you need to pick up and on the other side on that you have to defend it make sure your guys aren't doing it but you have to watch the game and understand that i never got an advanced report from a scout that didn't have back when they used advanced scouts and they didn't have something about a third base coaches science or about something a pitcher might do please look for this i think i saw this so there's a relay of information but anything you can get off video before a series so did it's fair game but once the game starts to artificially be able to get that that's the problem that the commissioner has buck we know how detailed you are and were as a manager when you try and put the pieces of the puzzle or in this case the pieces of the crime together how do you think the astros went down this road why do you think they ended up doing this and doing it so often well i think you know jack if you look at it like this that there's so many people that are trying to bring something especially in today's game because you may not have played professional baseball you may not have played in the big leagues very admirably so you're trying to bring something there's so much pressure on some of these young people to bring something hey i can get this if i can get this seed in here i can get this and what's believing when a veteran player says hey can you get this you know these guys are going to jump at the opportunity to contribute to a club and sometimes clandestinely so you know but there's a way to find to see it happening on the field with your naked eyes you can see things that are going on where you know the way they're not budging on a breaking ball now you know these guys are throwing 96 miles an hour in order to stick your nose out over played on a breaking ball you've got to really have a pretty good feel for what's coming so there's ways to tell that oh you know getting back to original question i mean that's i think there's a lot of pressure on all these different departments to bring something that makes everybody go wow that's a real game changer hey buck i want to read an excerpt from the commissioner's examination and investigation he said this about the astros players most of the position players on the 2017 team either received sign information from the banging scheme or participated in the scheme by helping to just decode signs or bang the trash can many of the players who were interviewed admitted that they knew the scheme was wrong because it crossed the line from what the player believed was fair competition and or violated major league rules players stated that if manager a j hinge told them to stop engaging in the conduct they would have immediately stopped that seems like one of the most damning statements about a j hinge that it would have taken a simple conversation to say we need to end this but it never happened were you surprised by that uh once again there's such a lure let's face it let's talk about a lot of the money involved a lot of the things you're going on there's such a lure there and we've all had it you know someone leaves a scouting report in your desk the previous team or you know i've gotten stuff handed to me from a team advanced report about us you know what do you do with that information you know there's such an angel and a and a devil having a fight behind your back and what i'm going to win so you know you can get caught up in it i like a day i've always had a good relationship with him i understand the pressure involved on this but you know it's just hard for me to fathom that anything is going on in a locker room or in a dugout uh that you're that close to that you're not aware of every little thing that's going on you can't turn a blind eye to it i know when our guys felt like they had somebody to just it was like you know they can't wait to share that information quite frankly i've been surprised that it's stayed below below public consumption for so long there's nobody in baseball can keep a secret well buck always appreciate your unique insight thanks for joining us