 Good morning Hawaii peeps afternoon evening to all the rest of you good folks joining in and for those viewing later, whatever time and maybe is the right time. Welcome back to think tech Hawaii. In 2022 starting this one off, whatever best way we can. And today, maybe to start things on a more positive, hopeful, inspiring note is, and maybe both sides of the picture. Some thoughts on Martin Luther King Jr. His day was at the beginning of this week, we're still honoring him. Speaking of honoring wanted to start off by honoring Professor Randall, the winner of the Society of American law teachers great teacher award for 2021. That is a particularly distinguished and rare honor. And it's the product of decades of preeminent teaching on race racism the law and more from Professor Randall so congratulations. Thank you very much. Actually, we've got four award winners of various kinds here and Davis we know retired professor from the University of Toledo School of Law and Ben have you started the spring semester at Washington and Lee. Yep, just started there. Okay, so we'll change your caption for professor at Washington and Lee from here on out. Okay. Patterson won a number of awards this past year and has in the past as well. And David Larson chair of the American Bar Association section of dispute resolution. And the man behind the design of New York's online case resolution system. It's been years in the works and years in the making and now up and rolling and gaining momentum. So, congratulations to all of you thank you all for being here. Some thoughts on MLK. Any thoughts that may come to your mind. Let's take a look at where we are now and thoughts or words that he might have for us, or you might have for us based on the learning that he made possible for us to Randall want to start us off. Thank you. I was, I grew up doing segregation. And so I am a direct beneficiary of the civil rights movement and was a junior in college men MLK was killed. So, I would, I saw all of that. And what strikes was a couple of things strikes me is one, how MLK has been neutralized by the majority and both black and whites to be milder and more acceptable is sort of like he was the spicy dish and they took all the spice out of him to make him acceptable to the general public. I think the now looking back I didn't think this at the time. In fact, I think the primary difference between Malcolm X and MLK was really only their view about the appropriate use of violence that they shared a lot of similar views and I wanted just I've got a couple of quotes but I'm only one to give one that he said in 1967 that this is my sophomore year in college. He said whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to re educate themselves out of their racial ignorance is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn. And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing the attempt that over the years since his death, there was attempt by progressives and by minority communities to get accurate history introduced into schools into books. And we have a backlash to that. And, and I think that he would see what's going on as a backlash to everything he tried he worked for. And he's got another famous 1967 quote about the white backlash. That's directly applicable now. In fact, Hannah Nicole Jones the Pulitzer Prize winner, who was invited to give a speech on MLK day. And there was, there are always a few who reacted against that saying she was a discredited activist. And so the first half of her remarks were all quotes from Martin Luther King Jr, which she didn't disclose until after she had completed that. And there was a stunned silence in the group. Hey, and thank you for reminding us what a truly forceful activist he was. Yeah, if I can jump in, I saw recent relatively recently and when the movie about James Baldwin I'm not your Negro came out where it had these videos of all the people he knew who were wherever they were, and they were all killed. Okay, so it was, there was King. There was Malcolm X, I can't remember all mega rivers I think was another one they were all these sort of different people activists in the black movement but the thing that got me in that particular movie was there was a quote from King where he said, and I think he used it a lot more than I had seen. He said that you have the right to be free. And then you have the duty to be free, which that duty part of it, I thought was something I hadn't really picked up on that really the burden of was not just one of sort of asserting rights, but the duty to live those rights and to make those rights happen for yourself. And for those others who are being oppressed in both the system inside the United States and more broadly, when he went to his move with regards to militarism in the late 60s. So that has been a powerful thought from for me of his. I looked at him, maybe now a little differently than I used to in the sense that I think more sort of in the sort of 500 year vision of him. And I think that's not just his life, but his life is being part of a series of lives that have been going on for many, many, many years of people, essentially fighting for, or fighting against what was essentially, I guess it was in 1455 or something the blessing of the perpetual enslavement of black people by the Pope at the time. And this battle for 500 years of different people trying to assert the human dignity of Africans blacks in different ways I think of people like Richard Allen and Absalom Jones who created the African Methodist Episcopal Church, they were good old Episcopalians until someone in the church said that could you all sit in the back up there, as opposed to down on the floor and I think Richard Allen said can we finish our prayers first. And then they finish their prayers and then they all walked out and created the African Methodist Episcopal Church because they were not going to accept in late 1700s that kind of treatment in the place of faith. Okay, so I, and I look at King as being the this this powerful putting a powerful request to, to us all to not only make sure that we have the right but we have the duty to act to help to make sure that everyone is free. Obviously that causes reactions and we can see, even with the vote yesterday, with regards to not passing the voting rights act, you know, I think the thing that really struck me was apparently after it all went down you had was it 52, or maybe, maybe 50 Republicans but 52 of the senators applauded. Okay, that is the thing that strikes me in a way is that the idea of applauding after something like that is just the emblematic of a kind of cruelty harshness whatever you want to call it. And I know about all of the various laws that have been passed to try to restrict voting over the last year or so, played out under this big lie, right, or the idea that even as more evidence comes forward. Not that there was a need for it but evidence for that there was nothing that was a fraud that was it. In fact, the fraud is really starting to turn it to be shown on the part party, part of those who are who were there was fraud, for example this idea of sending false elector documents saying that they were official electors from the state of Michigan or I think New Mexico is another one that were signed by people who were Republican You know, I mean I would have thought that people would have at least had a lawyer, you know say hey what you know when somebody calls you and says hey, what should you go ahead and sign this elector thing and send it down to the National Archive and to the governor and all that stuff. You know somebody would call their friend and say hey what do you think about me doing this you know they said, well you know that could be election fraud, you know, and you could be criminally prosecuted for that you know, but people you know, some didn't but a bunch of them did and now you've they've got referrals I think by the Attorney General of Michigan Attorney General of Mexico to the federal the feds about what is to me kind of a looks like pretty fraudulent election stuff. I really appreciate your comment about the long line of people in the history because I just have to say to someone yesterday who said a young person who on my Facebook page said something like King done more for our people than anyone. I had post something that wasn't 100% about King and she said King has done more for our people than anyone I'm some like King was a person of his time, who long line of people and built upon a long line of people and if he had come along with nothing having been done. He would have accomplished nothing that that that his he is as as significant as he is. He was only that significant because of the hundreds of years of work racial justice work, not only by all different people in all different groups, you know the protesting their particular situation. And then for at the time King came along and he was given that authority, largely because he was young and educated and people at the time, don't his new face, his new voice would get people to listen in a way that they had stopped listening to the people who were active it and they were right about that. Ben Ben mentioned the fraud going on. We've got my pillow Mike Lindell in Minnesota. So if you want to get an example of somebody putting up fraudulent and extreme positions just listen listen to him for a while and getting back to Chuck's question when I think what's what's Martin Luther King Jr. I think it's a bravery, you know just this constant dedication to non violence, when violent threats are being directed at him continually death threats, and to be able to maintain that position of non violence I think is is still relevant today can we do that. There's this expression rolling over in the grave. And I'm not sure that's the right one but I'm thinking some tears. If, if, if in the afterlife you can cry, I would think you'd cry a little bit because we're seeing right now we've seen this week, people taking his words, kind of out of context. And we saw it in Virginia with young tin, you know, taking the famous quote, you know, you should not be just by the, by the color of your skin by the content of your character. And then basically saying, we're there. It's time. So, let's not talk about any racial history or critical race theory and banded in the, in the elementary schools, although it's never been taught in the elementary schools. So, you know, tears in the sense that you know my, you know, my message is not being communicated accurately and thoroughly in the way I meant it because the following languages, you know, whites haven't basically fulfilled the promise to do that. And you know, much work needs to still be done. And, and it's been used in the context that we are done. And there's no reason to talk about that because that just makes us feel bad about ourselves. So let's just, you know, let's just assume there's no history we have to worry about. And I think that's, that's troubling. So I think that might be tears about that and also tears about, as was already mentioned, all the voting wreck, all the voting restrictions that are coming and they're coming in. You know, a lot of the bills from 2021 that weren't passed are carrying over. And some like 88 bills carried over tremendous number of bills everything from, you know, limiting absentee ballots the ballot drop boxes it's like everything you can think of to make it hard to cast a ballot. You know, even in Michigan, three bills were introduced very restrictive last year, Governor, the Michigan governor, Democratic governor veto those three. And then stop a bunch of bills have been introduced for the 2022 legislative session. So I think also that Martin Luther King Jr would be very disappointed discouraged by that aggressive, those aggressive attempts to restrict voting. I know you have some thoughts on this. I do. I think that Professor Randall as well as Ben and David have covered a lot of ground quotes that come to my mind and really have to do with what is on the personal level and this one I was sharing with a friend earlier this weekend. I think it, it not only relates to Dr. King's path, but our path as leaders as activists, and I'm going to read it to you it's in the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. And it's, it's taking that stand. And, and saying, you know, this isn't right. This is not the way that this is not the way that law was meant to be interpreted. This is not what critical race theory means. And so standing alone and knowing that you're standing alone, but you do it just the same. I think Dr. King, if he were alive today would be like David said, a mix of emotions. Right. I respectfully disagree with those who say we, the Dr. King's dream has been realized. It hasn't. We're still talking about voting rights being an issue, a 52 48 vote against the voting rights act that that Congressman Lewis have put together that package. That should be chilling for people. And for those who are silent. This is the wake up call. You know Chuck you and I talked about a podcast that another organization featured last week regarding how civil war start that vote should be the wake up call. This is how civil war start it's not the. It's not the farmer it's not the the person who is getting by day to day that is at the center it's the person who has access who has means who knows the laws who knows the regulations and that's that silence. That's literally going to be the, the reckoning for all of us if we don't speak up the one that keeps me moving. When I out doing work or when I think about Dr. King is injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere and staying the course. Yeah, and sometimes staying the course means you're in a different space than your family, your friends, your colleagues, but staying the course and continuing to speak up for justice. I've had younger people tell me that things have changed. And in many ways they have but in many ways they haven't racism is still racism access to justice is still access to justice, whether it's done through social media or through written form. I think one of the things that in terms of the violence things I think can people when we draw attention to Dr. King's nonviolent stance, I don't, I have to say that I, I'm not sure. First of all, I think people kind of misinterpret his nonviolent stance, because I think that he was not a nonviolent person. He actually generated a lot of violence against people to demonstrate a point and he had to know there would be violence against them. And so he was more about the using violence I think as a promotion as a as an offensive tool instead of a defensive tool. But, and he certainly I don't think would class riots in the category of violence. He made it clear that he view Riley riots as the language of the unheard that as long as there was unjust injustice in America. And people weren't doing things to correct that injustice, they were going to be riots. And so you can't really say oh look at these people rioting they're being violent, but at the same time, not equate economic social justice inequities as violence. They're being defense we already recognize recognize self defense in this country. So maybe they're just exercising self defense. Then the other thing on a personal level and and I don't at all say that this is a position that Dr. King would take. I don't think we should realize violence as a way to deal with stuff, especially oppressed, because you're basically saying that if you can't change the system, you have to keep taking it, because violence isn't an option. It seems to me that the reason we have a self defense clause, it's because some of them come at you physically violence is an option someone comes at you with, you know, so I don't know that I think that I don't know when and where violence should be an option in our society for coming up against oppression. And personally, I think that we don't have enough numbers to do that. But I don't want to say that as a matter of moral value violence should not be an option. Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Waukegan, Illinois, which is a, you know, a community that that lower median income higher crime, you know, in the in the belt of suburbs from those concepts they lying down to Chicago you have a whole really interesting socio economic study, as you go through communities like when NETCA and Indian Hills and killer earth and you continue north past the military base up the walking in North Chicago they're very different socio economic communities and even growing up, you know, it was, it was very clear that that at some certain point crime was kind of a rational, a rational choice. So like I don't have any other choice. I don't have any other, I don't have any other way to eat or to get get what I need. And it wasn't any rational choice it was kind of like I don't have any options left. This is what I've got. So, it's depressing to me to think that that we've got a kind of catalog that in the list of of available options. That's sad to me that that's got to be on the list. But I've never thought it was an irrational choice in the sense that, because if we're not going to make options available people don't have any choices. And that's, we should expect that. That's what's going to happen. So my feeling was that. If you don't share. That's what you're going to get. It's perfectly rational choice. And so you're better off sharing. I was always kind of how I felt. I just wanted to jump in on a couple of things here if I could, which is just David kind of got me going on this, and also Tina and, and, and, for me, a professor Randall did, which was on this notion of getting over or forgetting the past, you know, I'm, I'm moved to Virginia three months ago, right. So I walked around Virginia, and the past is everywhere. I mean, it is. There's a plantation called the Berkeley Plantation where one of my great grandfathers was enslaved there. I've gone out to Madison's plantation and learned about all the history there that the Martina Lafayette in 1824 was pleading with Madison to free his slaves in 1824. I mean, to say that we need to sort of forget about all that or, you know, you can try to cover it up so to speak, but it's, it's, it's in the soil, it's everywhere you're walking around in this state. And in other states too, I'm not saying it isn't, but it just is kind of a weird thought to me that you would try to say that we've reached this perfect place when, you know, we'd have to, we'd have to do is we'd have to cancel or get rid of all or maybe cut down all the plantations. Okay, that they're doing business here. Williamsburg would have to disappear all these things Jamestown all that would just have to disappear plus to forget about it. And that's absurd. You know, I mean, so, as well, William Faulkner said, Oh, heavens, William Faulkner was the past is never dead. You know, the past is always with us. It's never dead. It's always going to be there and you can acknowledge it or not, but it's always there. And part of the wonder or the magic is building from all that and building, you know, what is it the more perfect community where people do have options that are good ones to have decent work and health care and all those things that we talk about that their are going to be respected. You know, I understand there's always somebody's interest in setting people down. I mean there's always a game that somebody's got an advantage of doing this side of the other. But notwithstanding, I think it's Cheryl and Eiffel who said that with all the setbacks that have happened all over the years. They said, you know, the great redemption or backlash and all that. And in the black community, there's never been a line at the end. So we gave up. You know, it said, Oh, we don't give up, you know, people who are a good people who want things to progress. They just don't give up. They keep doing things to make it better, even in the face of all of the nonsense that they have to deal with, you know, until recently, but you know, my air when my area of research is health disparities with a focus on African American health status. Until the last 20 or 30 years, suicide rates among black people was so low. I mean, it was very low. And it's only, and it's kind of sad. It's only been in the last 20, 30 years as we've had more movement into the significantly more movement into the middle class that we've had an increase of suicide rate, particularly among teenage boys. Yeah. So it's, you know, but it goes to the comment that you were making and this information about suicide and violence and stuff. The United States have been collecting race based data on health for decades. Back into the 20s. And so if you just take the time you can compare what was happening to black people versus what was happening to white people, you know, and in the violence, I've always said that suicide and homicide are opposite sides of the same coin that when you are mentally in a position where you can no longer take it, you will turn that you will turn you will turn that violence that comes up outward or inward. And that we treat outward turning of violence as criminal but we treat in recent years because we used to treat suicide as a crime, but we turn, we treat that inward turning of violence as as mental as a mental health issue. You know, I mean you've raised black boys right you know you know what it is to get a book of a young black man on his way. It is very difficult. It's very I can't tell you the numbers of interventions I've had to have with my kids and one of the things that makes me sad about raising them in a segregated society. And I think about this a lot that as a black girl raised in the south. It wasn't until my teen years that I really had to deal with racism and white people's racism, because I was in a segregated community, and I didn't get to go in the white community, and they didn't come in hours. Pretty much. And so I as a young child 674567 and eight years old, I didn't have to deal with white people, for the most part. My kids started dealing with them as three and started having problems at that age and has had constant problems. One way or the other that. And, and while we're out of time for today. I think I want to thank all of you for putting it really clearly and vividly and intensely in front of us that when you take away and you limit choice and opportunity, whether it's educational or voting for employment or economic or health or any other kind. You can only do that by dehumanizing the people you're doing that to we owe each other better. And thank you all for bringing the spirit of MLK junior back and your own spirit and your own leadership in ways that remind us. We have to humanize each other. See you all in a couple of weeks.