 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, we would like to welcome you into this open forum session. We're very happy to see so many of you here tonight, of course. This is due to our fantastic panel. And of course it is also a matter of the topic that we will be dealing with during the next hour and a half. The secret is out what's next for Switzerland. That's our topic tonight. I am under Bleicher. I am deputy chief editor of the Sonntags Zeitung Swiss newspaper. And I will be the moderator of this podium of the panel discussion rather. We're going to think about various things connected with what's next. There's no more banking secrets in Switzerland. What's left in Switzerland? Where do we have to go? Where do we want to go? How do we have to change? Do we have to change at all? Our panel discussion participants will try to answer this question. There are various solutions that are possible. In the second half of the discussion we would like to have a dialogue with you. Open the floor to you and we are ready to take your questions in the second part of the panel. I would like to introduce our panelists to the far right, or basically in the centre. But this is where I am sitting. The centre is being redefined, but this is of course a relative definition. The president of the Swiss consideration is with us. We're particularly proud of the fact that he's with us tonight. He's also our foreign minister. He feels that Switzerland should actually assume the role of building bridges. And as he is a terribly busy man, the president of the consideration has to leave us at eight o'clock. Which is why we will ask you to direct the first questions you have to the president so that he will be able to answer them before he has to leave us. Next to him is Mr. Hohmeister, chief executive officer of Swiss international airlines, about Switzerland. He says here we really have a lot of red tape more than in Germany. Of course we don't believe that, but I'm sure that he will explain what he means or what he meant. If possible, if necessary, he's going to prove it all the way to the left. Jean-Claude Bider is chairman of the board of Hublot, Switzerland. And if you've been reading the newspapers with some attention, you will have found that this way he was entrusted with an additional task. He has become the leader of the watch production of the large group LVMH. We would like to congratulate him. Mr. Beaver, of course, has a number of things to say about Switzerland as well. Here's what he said. In Switzerland we have to learn how to be proud of what we've achieved. To his right, there's Felix Irat. He's the head of the legal department at Novartis and he is a member of the board as well. In a portrait describing him, he was called a pilot for difficult cases. So I'm sure that he's going to be able to comment on where Switzerland is supposed to go. You probably expected Mr. Jimenez instead of Mr. Irat, but Mr. Irat will tell us why. This is not so. Yes, I'm happy to do so. Mrs. Bacha, who's a moderator, was very kind. She didn't call me a stopgap solution. Mr. Jimenez sent his best wishes, but unfortunately he was unable to come because there was a change in schedules which is quite usual during the World Economic Forum. He's very sorry not to be able to be with us today. Well, and then we have Boris Kolowdi with us. He is Chief Executive Officer of Julius Baer, the bank Julius Baer. And I read the following comment about him. He became a banker because, and I quote, because I wanted to please my father. He thought that the banking career would be a sure value in Switzerland. Can't do anything wrong there. At the time. Herr Kolowdi. Mr. Kolowdi, at the beginning of the banking crisis, how many times did you think, why did I want to please my father? No, that's not really what I meant. I said it then, but I'm still very proud of the fact that I am a banker today. Our industry, the banking sector, is a very important part of activity in Switzerland and we will hear this from our colleagues. The banking industry is an industry with a lot of links to the other branches of the economy and for the last five, six years we've been having a very difficult time. But before that, for the previous 15 years we may have had it a bit too easy. So I think that we have to try really hard. We're doing it. We have to make great efforts in order to have a good and solid financial industry. And then we will become an attractive place for young students as well and graduates. Mr. Beaver, you know about crises and you know about crises in various branches of industries. Are you sorry for Mr. Kolowdi? No. All the less because I agree with him. I'm entirely in agreement with him. We underestimate the strength of Swiss banks, first of all, in terms of security. Security that is backed up by the state and our legislation. In France, legislation changes every five years depending on whether it's a left or right government. We have security in our country. We have the safety and security that comes with neutrality. The entire Swiss structure is very safe and the Swiss bankers are extremely well organized. They offer great service. Just talk and work with other banks. You will soon find that Swiss banks are indeed very well organized. Swiss banks have 100 years of experience. It's a real trade. If I think that thanks to the Federal Council, we started to have activities with Chinese. Once the Chinese come to Switzerland and they actually choose Switzerland for the Runebi while I'm dreaming of course, then you'll see what Switzerland is all about. The Chinese don't want to go to Wall Street. They don't want to go to Great Britain. We have a great chance there. Ten years from now we will say, why were we so pessimistic? I am not one bit sorry for Mr. Colardi. I'm not sorry for him either. Mr. Buchhater. Mr. President. Do you share Mr. Beaver's enthusiasm for Switzerland? Well, that's not even a dream. We are discussing this matter quite seriously, the center for the Runebi. But I would like to say two things. First of all, there are a lot of young people who want to be bankers, who want to work as bankers. It's a new generation and it is very important to hear that there is a future in the banking trade. We had a lot of criticism, but the banking sector, although it went through a rough patch, is still there. I wouldn't really say adapt it, but it actually decided to move and to change, not in order to adapt to others necessarily, but to come up with new business models and to have a new generation. A generation of young people who want to be active in the sector, which is good. Second, the institutions. When I read what I'm supposed to discuss here, that everything will change because the banking secrecy no longer exists. I want to remind you the fact that the institutions in Switzerland are very strong. If you think of what Switzerland has been through and what it lived through during the last few years, it is still going strong. Not everybody is well, but I must say that our institutions are very strong, so I'm very optimistic, not only for our economy, but for our people. What are Switzerland's particular strengths? Well, this is what I mean. Just read the constitution. Be a good thing to read the constitution once in a while. Maybe a light version of the constitution. Switzerland is a space for peace, for respect, for dialogue, for innovation and trade. Now, what you're supposed to aim for is well-being, welfare, peace, stability. So, in other words, you always want to make sure that there are human rights that are respected, that there is democracy, that there is environmental protection, and that you combat poverty. The nicest thing about this constitution is that we will be able to reach our goals by promoting our values, which is wonderful. That's fantastic. That's Switzerland. Of course, banking secrecy is very important, but the real discussion doesn't really turn around the banking secrecy, but rather how we will be able to protect our private lives, not only in the banking sphere. It is not that important to protect information about something that might be dishonest, though that is not nice. You don't really have to protect information concerning these matters, but private lives, yes, data protection, that is important. Everybody is supposed to know everything about everybody. You could always read it up in the constitution. It's all there. Mr. Hohmeister nods. He's nodding. Did you read the constitution? Yes, indeed. That's one of the first things that I did when I came to Switzerland because I'm very interested in history. So, every country has its idiosyncrasies, which is why I went straight to the constitution. I saw my constitution back home in the kitchen when you didn't deal with red tape. Well, there you quote me and I said that a few years ago. When I came to Switzerland, I wanted to get, with an L permit, I wanted to get a phone line or to want to have a mobile phone or to get a license plate for my car, I must say. It was a real challenge. I would say that Switzerland could become slightly more European there, but I really don't want to go into details. These were my first impressions. It's easier in Germany if you come there from Spain and bring your car. It's far easier in Switzerland. It was a bit more complicated. But basically that was a post-immigration comment that I made so far. I can deal with red tape in Switzerland quite well. I don't get entangled. Are you not over-adapted yet? Well, basically I am not a person who adapts very well. I ask my parents, my family, my friends, assimilated, yes, but adapted to truly integrate it, maybe not. Maybe this is why. One of your quotes is that I'm not typically German. That's what I say. I don't know what others say about me. Very subjective. I'm a typical German because I am not really into hierarchy. Very early in life I learned that hierarchy is less important than competency. So I'm really more interested in being competent and I'm not particularly in favor of regulation. It's nice to know your regulations by heart, but basically my basic relations are something I don't know by heart. It is more important for me to do the right thing. To be right is all right, but you can be right and do the wrong thing. I think I'm just different. I went to all kinds of countries. I went to Italy, Spain, Great Britain. There I must say that I've learned a lot about historical reality. So basically you fit in more easily. What would you say? How does the typical German differ from the typical Swiss person? If you were to ask me what a typical German per... How a typical German is different from a typical Tunisian would be easier. But Switzerland and Germany, these two cultures and civilizations are very close to each other. Well, I must say we speak different languages of course, because in northern Germany of course you speak a German that is quite different from Swiss German. We have basically the constitution as a good example because we have very similar values. In Germany the constitution is called basic law. The first ten articles don't follow the same sequence, but basically they contain the same thing as the ones in Switzerland. In Germany human rights are in the first position and here it is freedom. Each and every Swiss person claims his own freedom, which is number one in the constitution as well. And I would say the fact that they want to be liberal, they want to be free, and they want to define their own freedom. This is one point that basically distinguishes a German person from the Germans who fit more easily into hierarchy. Mr. Herth, are you a typical Swiss person? I must say I have a hard time defining the typical Swiss person, which is why I am unable to answer this question properly. I would say that what links us between Geneva, Courchefus and Kiasso are values. We have a feeling of belonging together and we are aware of the fact that we are Swiss. We know that we can fight quite seriously whether we have votes, we have very diverse results in the various cantons, but basically there is a feeling that is hard to describe, but we have the feeling that we are all Swiss, which is a very strong aspect, which is why I am unable to answer your question. I might give you an approximation. I am working in a very international group, but at the same time it is a very typically Swiss group. We have 11-12% Swiss staff, although we only have 1% of our turnover in Switzerland. In Switzerland more than 100 nationalities are prevalent among staff. At the same time it is a typically Swiss group, which is very deeply anchored in Switzerland. I think that it is the fact that you are Swiss, that you have roots in Switzerland, that you stand for values, but at the same time you go elsewhere, you are successful and then come back. This is typically Swiss. Mr. Biver, he described a typical Swiss person as such. The Swiss people are faithful, honest and diligent. Yes, you feel that when you work in Switzerland. The Swiss people can be trusted. They are reliable and they are diligent. They are hard workers and they are honest, but basically you have people with values. Switzerland is incredibly creative. We always forget that. Switzerland is very, very creative. We have a lot of cultures and a lot of religions, but we are all creative. These are values that were very important for our machine industry. That is what created our watch industry, banking industry, pharmaceutical industry. We inherited our mentality from the Swiss mentality, which is then what allowed us to be active in various spheres and in various activities. I really believe in it. The definition to define a Swiss person is practically impossible. There is no such thing as a Swiss person as such. Look at the canton of Valle. There are two or three different languages spoken. Some people live on top of the mountains. Some live down in the valleys. So you can't really define it. The only thing you can define, well, I'm a patriot. I can define myself as a patriot. I want to defend my country. And every time I come to the United States, I go to, I get to the airport. I'm not through passport control yet. I've seen the American flag eight times. When I get to Switzerland, there's no such thing as a Swiss flag. I have to go up to Zermatt, and then all of a sudden there is a small chalet, and then you finally find a Swiss flag. We have to learn to be more proud of our country. We have to become better patriots, and that can't do any harm. Well, who would you like to defend Switzerland against? Against whom? Against the Swiss. The greatest danger is within the country. We have to try to defend our own system from the inside, because we're really spoiled. I'm not really afraid of foreign countries, other countries respect us, admire us, and copy us. I went to Harvard Business School in November in order to talk about the Swiss model. I mean to the Americans that this model is more topical than anything else. The whole world can learn from us today, and you have to understand that. Not only learn about democracy, but learn about the dual training system. Learn how we integrate foreigners and how we take in foreigners in Switzerland. A hundred different nationalities are active among their staff in Basel. That is incredible. I would say that the Swiss have to become more patriotic. They have to actually analyze their own values in order to attempt to carry those values over to the 21st century. Mr. President, more patriotism. Would that be a good thing in Switzerland? We are quite patriotic, but we don't say it. We don't admit it. We don't really have to exhibit it, but sometimes strength lies in being self-confident and to live without patriotism. But luckily there is no such thing as a typical Swiss. There is something which is typically Swiss that we have respect for diversity. Switzerland is a team. Team Switzerland. And there you can define some specific Swiss values, but have a look at the national football team. Are some of them more typically Swiss than others? Only those who actually are able to come up with goals are Swiss than the others? No, I don't think so. I liked what Mr. Beaver said, but one thing I don't agree with. The Swiss person is creative. No, there are some Swiss who aren't creative at all, but they're still Swiss. There are 8 million Swiss, and all of them are somehow integrated in a project and we mustn't ever forget it. We always have a lot of arguments in Switzerland, but basically one is happy here. You're quite right. We are happy in our country because we really only have to defend each other and defend us against each other. That's not bad. When we went to Montoya for this Syria conference, we witnessed hatred, not throughout, but for some time. There are some regions in the world where there's so much insecurity, instability, no chance to know whether at the end of the day things will be alright or whether you will be alive or not. We don't have that in Switzerland. That is typically Swiss. And what is even more typically Swiss is work. We're not the only ones in the world who work, but we like to work. In Switzerland, for instance, we give our guests gifts. This year, we decided to give a gift to youth and I asked the watch industry whether they were able to make a watch created only by young people and certify it. They said, yes, immediately. A few weeks later, it was done. Now we have a watch, a unique watch which is only made by apprentices. That is something that wouldn't be possible in the other country, that actually young people come up with something as nice as that without help from other Swiss. So we learned that the Swiss are a hard-working people. Mr. Homer, I said, what about you? Well, I, of course, don't. I'm not hard-working. Well, of course I'm joking. But I would like to get back to what Mr. Beaver said. Basically, I'm not entirely in agreement with him, but possibly I look at things from the outside rather than from the inside. I do think that the Swiss are quite national, quite proud of their nation, their multicultural. They are very diverse. That's a good thing. They are proud of each other, but you don't necessarily say so. You don't show it. I said that if Switzerland were a bit more self-confident towards the outside world and we have our foreign minister right here, it's not so much a matter of national identity. I think we have a very strong national identity, far stronger than in Germany, but self-confidence is not entirely as strong. What was your question? Well, basically, you answered that question. You do like to work, yes, once in a while, but you did comment on foreign policy as well. I would like to quote you. What do the Germans do better than the Swiss, and you said they're better in foreign policy? Mr. Burkart, Mr. President, this is a comment for you. What doesn't matter if the Germans are very good? Fine. Good thing that they have good foreign policy in Germany, but maybe they want to say... You should say yourself what you mean. Well, basically, I think that the Germans are quite strong in projecting their national image outside their own country. I would say that it would be desirable that Switzerland would play a stronger role because Switzerland can make more of a contribution. The value system, which would be a good thing for Europe, would strengthen Europe. Mr. Beaver mentioned it, but, of course, we have to see it in a greater context. In my head. Well, it's already that. Mr. Koladi, what would you tell Mr. Holmeister? We don't sell ourselves well, do you agree? Would I have the opportunity to live in various countries and to travel to various countries? And I would say that Switzerland was always very good at selling herself. People have a far more positive view of Switzerland than we do, but it is true that for the future in a globalized world we could do more. I think we have to find good alliances, good partnerships with others. Possibly we should speak more loudly once in a while, which is not necessarily typical for us, but basically one should say if one doesn't agree right away instead of compromising immediately. We talked about this with some colleagues. We could do more in the international scene. We don't do as much as Germany, but it would do as good. Well, Mr. Koladi, how should Switzerland change for the future? You said that you live in the future. Well, there you're quoting me in a very specific discussion about the financial center, Switzerland. And we have a lot of discussions with us with colleagues in Switzerland, but really there are two opinions that there are some people who want to live in the future like some people who are there in the public. They say we should change the framework conditions and then everything will be all right. And then there are other people who talk about 1780, 1820, 1915 and 1970. They still talk about how good things were then, but really that's no use at all. We have to look forward. We have to trust our values and our strengths and we want to make sure that we remain as competitive in the future as we've been in the past. I was in various financial centers in Asia and in other European financial centers and I can only repeat what my colleagues have said here before. There is no other financial center in the world with such a high degree of competency as Switzerland, which is why the banking secrecy will no longer be relevant five years from now. It is much more about confidentiality and data protection. We have to look forward looking. We can't say that nothing will work any longer. It's not true. It will work. Well, how can you make people change? That's quite simple. You have to speak to be honest with people. We have to describe the future to them. Where's the data we have at hand today? We will tell them how we will manage things and then let them participate in designing the roadmap. We have a lot of creative people who are into innovation. Others, again, wait for orders. But I think we can meet inspiration to people. We can define our way forward with our people. This is what we've been doing for the last 100 years. Switzerland came under pressure time and again and we were always able to find innovative solutions for the future, which is exactly what we have to do now. Mr. Erd, you're breathing heavily. No, not really. Maybe just to address a few points that were mentioned. My view is that Switzerland is the epitome of a country that is continuously dealing with the future. Why is that my view? If Switzerland's got something that it has cherished over the past few years and has made it what it is and will be in the future and a special country, it's innovation. The ability to be innovative continuously, this is where we are not self-assured enough, internally speaking, in Switzerland. Two of the largest companies in the world living by innovation, it's Novartis and Rosch in immediate vicinity, ABB, shaping electricity, transmission and supply throughout the world. Then we have hundreds of SMEs, not just the big companies, that not only survive but thrive despite difficult market environments that expand both in Switzerland and abroad. I think that is a recipe for success, an asset, innovation. And what is innovation? Innovation is to predict the future, think what we need in the future, and I think we've got great abilities in this country, and I think we should be a little bit more self-assured about this and accept it. And I do not really share the view that we are so timid when it comes to our stance in the world. I think this is an internal phenomenon, of course the Germans have a better language facility, the Italians are more creative, and I don't know what you think about the French. Mr. Biver certainly has an opinion about the French. What about the French? Well, I work for a French group, LVMH. It's the largest luxury corporation, luxury goods, so they're quite good as well. We have 37% of French workers crossing the border every day in the watchmaking industry, so we definitely need the French, whether we need the French politics and the behaviour of the French politicians, I don't know. Having said that, I live across the border from France, I see France every day, I look across the border, and I am really surprised that we think differently on this side of the border that we are happy with four weeks of vacation early instead of six and that we work for 40 hours a week, 34 hours, five hours, like the French. The French mindset doesn't cross the lake. We have a border, true border here, that mindset doesn't cross the lake. We'll be happy to take questions from French participants, of course in the audience later on. Mr. President, do you want to have my view? No. Now what's your view? Let's speak about change for Switzerland. How do you see this change? What would you wish this change to be like? I don't think we need to change a great deal. We don't need a revolution, but where we could do better, in particular in this era of major challenges for the whole planet, to prepare politics for next generation, be less selfish, think about the future generation. So whenever a decision is made in Switzerland and we take decisions all the time in Switzerland, so that we think about the possible consequences for the future generations. And I think we can do better here. Also among the younger generation, the younger generation should be given responsibility early on so that they also think on behalf of the next few generations. That is difficult because we live in a fast-paced society. I'm not really so happy about going to the ballot on your computer, voting through computers. I think it takes a while, some time to think also on behalf of others. And I think one can do that well in our society in Switzerland because we are a mature society. Why do we vote for four weeks of vacations only? My colleagues, Foreign Ministers abroad, keep asking me, DDA, how do you make people say no to more vacation? Now if we took a vote, they say we would never get it through. Then I say, well, there are two reasons. First of all, the Swiss population is used to go to the ballot box. It's not once every 10 years, it's really a regular thing. So it's a responsibility of every citizen. So everyone's held accountable and responsible. And we always work for jobs. Thank God we have little unemployment. But in Switzerland, we think about the possible risks of the future. If we take a decision, will it mean that we are going to lose jobs? That's why we take such mature decisions, if I may say so. And I think this is something we have to preserve. And also think in terms of the needs of the future generations. I think this is something all of us need. Not just citizens, also the parties, the political parties. Well, we do have a representative of the youth, Mr. Colardi. He's a young man. Well, you were given a lot of responsibility at a young age. How did it feel? How does it feel? I don't think it's just a question of age. It's a question of experience. Sometimes you are just faced with a situation and you have to grapple with it. I think young people should be given opportunities in many industries. They think in long-term perspectives, they take more risks. They not only think of the past, they also think of the future going forward. There's no proper age. I think it's a question of mindset. But being less selfish or not selfish at all. Mr. Homemeister, should we delegate more to be successful to climb the ladder? Well, that's an interesting question. Should one delegate more to be successful? I think you have to share a lot of weight to be successful. If you fight on your own only, then you're lost. Now, if you look at Mr. Colardi, you really have to be a team player. If you want to be successful, you have to delegate powers. You have to also delegate authority and responsibility. If you can't do that, you will never make it. You have to be able to trust others, delegate others that support you in your mission. You need the team. You have to learn to let go and delegate and then also define the proper mission, the proper strategy and the objectives and also define them in a pluralistic way. Because if I say we'll go there, then people will not follow me automatically. You have to share your strategy with others. And I could talk about further elements of leadership. Leadership only works if you can let go and delegate. Mr. Erad, you are a lawyer, general counsel of Novartis, and you come into play when things get tough and you have to think ahead. If you were asked to think ahead for Switzerland, where are the necessary changes that Switzerland should embrace? Switzerland has proven in its history that it can espouse change and shape the country with changes. One topic here is the financial industry. I am absolutely convinced, just like the other panelists that have addressed the point so far, that our financial industry will emerge stronger from this crisis and will continue to be a key player of our industry, of our economy with jobs and its contribution to our general welfare and wealth. Now, where do we need to change? Well, I am tempted to say that it's changed more of the same. If we stick to our traditional virtues, if we keep working hard and all the other things that Mr. Beaver mentioned, and if we remain open towards new things, and that is difficult to strike balance here, continue to be proud of our roots, and our roots are not necessarily Switzerland, but Schaffhausen, my hometown, or Nihon, Poron Tree, or Lucerne, wherever you come from. We are always locally anchored. That's where we are at home. But at the same time, we should open ourselves. If we manage to do that in the future as well, then I'm not really worried about what is going to happen in the future, about the need for change. I'm really optimistic and confident. Mr. Beaver, how do you succeed to be permanently innovative? Well, it's a mental thing. It's a mindset. It's really something that happens in your mind. And to be innovative means to be alive. When you're alive, you've got to reinvent yourself every day, every morning. And we are a small country. We've got advantages and disadvantages. And think back 40 years ago, I started to work in the watchmaking industry. One dollar was at four francs, 50. Now one dollar is just 90 cents. And the engineering industry did grow despite this exchange rate defect, thanks to the creativity and hard work. I'm not talking about the luxury industry, about the watchmaking industry. We've made it as well, despite the difficult circumstances. And that's typical for the Swiss. We may be innovative or creative because we were born that way. We really had to struggle hard because Switzerland doesn't really exist. Switzerland is the world. The Swiss have learned that the Swiss territory is the world. The Americans say America is my country. He's right, 220 million people. Novartis just has 1% of its sales in Switzerland. We generate 4% of our total sales in Switzerland. So we've learned from the very beginning to fight and struggle abroad, to go abroad. And you can only win if you are bold, if you are courageous, creative and hardworking. And we've succeeded in doing that for the past 150 years. It is in our lifeblood. It's in our DNA. Now if you continue to look further into the future, do you see industries where Switzerland has a special potential where we should invest it more? Well, let me talk about a dream. We once built the gutter tunnel. The tunnel through the gutter. That was a world project. And then we built the dams for the reservoirs. These are world scale projects. And now we have the great look that the economy has developed more quickly than the structures. That's really fortunate. If our structure would move ahead of the economy, then everything would be half empty. We would have unemployment. The economy is growing more quickly than the infrastructure. So what I think we should have is a big Swiss infrastructure investment. Just like the gutter tunnel or the big dams of the reservoirs in the past. But that's just a dream. I'm just thinking about it. It's idealism. But sometimes such ideas will get you further. While we're building such a big project, well, there's been one before. It's a second tunnel. Yes, okay. But the first time around it was more difficult. You said we should be proud. And we're building the longest tunnel of the world. I think we should be proud of this. About the second gutter tunnel for the railway. Well, the President of the Confederation has to leave earlier to build bridges. Yes, he says. I think we can take the first few questions from the audience. Please address them to our President. And wait for the microphone, please. Let's begin with the gentleman here on the side. Would you please identify yourself and be brief? Clemens Bulli, the force. President, you spoke about non-selfish motivations of the youth. And in your opening statement, you spoke about the humanitarian mission of Switzerland. Now, Switzerland exports weapons to countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan with a desolate humanitarian situation. To what extent is this compatible with altruism and the humanitarian constitutional article? Well, it is compatible because the law is quite clear and the electorate has voted on it. But if you do not agree, then we can vote a second time around. You are free to express your opinion. There is a law. I mean, laws don't change all that quickly in Switzerland, but this is a decision taken by the electorate. And what we do is what is in compliance, in full compliance with our law. Yes, please. Mr. President, I have a question to you as well because you have to leave early. One of your predecessors, Dolph Oggie, said that the open forum is just a fig leaf and a distraction manoeuvre. And we spoke about the backing secrecy and the innovation and EU distinguish between tax secrecy and tax fraud. We have Mr. Gulati here. That is something that wasn't discussed. I'm a bit disappointed. Of course, I'm proud of many things, but if you say it's wonderful that you have an agreement with China and you say that humanitarian causes are of importance, then I'm not really proud. Then I feel sad. I don't know how you feel about this. But then there's Sergio Amotti. He works for UBS, but he was saved by the government. Before he was elected to be CEO of Switzerland, he also became rich through untaxed money. What do you think about that? I don't really know what the exact question is, but nevertheless, backing secrecy is not really something negative. It's a way to find a solution between the citizen and the state. I've got to explain this to people abroad because there are few countries where people fill in their tax returns themselves, and there's a certain honesty in Switzerland. This is why we've got this system. This system is based on honesty, and we've got to explain it to people abroad, and I think we should preserve it. What about human rights in China? Well, for the federal government, I think it's shared by a large part of the population is that we do everything to promote human rights. I don't think we can improve things by just saying, well, we are better than others, and we do not want to have any agreement with the country because they think differently than we do. We have to go closer to others, approach them, and maybe take a few steps back from our ethical stance and try to improve things together with the Chinese. We have embarked upon a human rights dialogue with the Chinese. It's sometimes difficult, but because of our free trade agreement with China, the human rights dialogue was intensified again, and you see that things are changing in China, whether this is going to be confirmed in the future, I don't know, but things are changing and moving quickly in the world, as far as death penalty is concerned. Now, look around the world. In many countries, they still have death penalty, but we want to discuss things with the countries, but we should approach them. I think it's no contradiction to have such agreements and then improve human rights at the same time. We can achieve that. If we say, well, we want everything from the very start, then we will have no contacts anymore, no agreements anymore, then there will be isolation. We should keep up the dialogue. We should stay close. We are pragmatic. That's true. We'd rather have a small step than no step at all. The president will have to leave us shortly. He has to leave in seven minutes. There's a present for the president. So, there's no microphone. Apparently, it's a flower and chocolate inside. So, let's be brief. We can have two more questions to our president. Gentlemen here in the light sweater. I'm Jakob Bukati. I am a high school student. I'm a Swiss citizen. He said that the young generation will be important in the future. That question to you as a president and foreign minister. Now, how do you want to defend Switzerland against data theft from Germany or the Americans with NSA? That's a big problem. Well, I've done it today. We've discussed it directly with John Kerry, the American foreign secretary. There's an international debate about it this year. It's going to be a big debate. It's a debate about the right to secrecy and privacy and the challenges of new technologies. It will not only affect Switzerland, it will affect all of us. And that is the good thing about the NSA affair, because we didn't really believe that this would be possible. And now you see what can happen in this society if you don't discuss it together. And we've launched an initiative in the UN because there's no other way to discuss this at a global scale. And as for a debate about the civil rights concerning secrecy in the UN, so protection of privacy and secrecy for the individual. And the article was created in the 80s. A lot of things have changed. A lot of good things have happened, but a lot of dangers have emerged. And we've got to revise this. We have to review it, and then there will be bilateral discussions with Germany and the United States. We are having these discussions. But the most important thing is, will we be able to preserve our privacy? Will we continue to exist without being totally transparent and people knowing everything about us who shouldn't? It's really a big debate that has only just started. Maybe the final question to the president. Yes, please. We're on a kiosk here from Germany, but I spend a lot of my time in Switzerland. Mr. President, about the future of Switzerland, you say that you have to think in terms of different generations. Do you think it is impossible for one of your successes to be sitting next to Mrs. Merkley in the Council of the European Union? Or would it be desirable? I think there was a second question. Maybe you can ask it now. Well, you said, every Swiss is integrated in a project. All Swiss citizens are part of a project. The question is, what are the goals of that project and what is the joint project vision? Now, first of all, your questions concerning the EU. I don't think that Switzerland wants to join the EU. I think that's clear. We want to have a good, strong relationship with the EU, but we don't want to be an EU member. And this strong relationship with the EU is possible. We have solutions for that. And we have to be able to be in the driver's seat to take decisions. But we also have to accept that if we want to go along with the EU, then we have to be responsible for its consequences. But deciding by ourselves, that is what counts. And the project is Switzerland, the world and responsibility. Switzerland can do a lot for Switzerland and for the world. But that's good for us because without the world, there is no Switzerland. That is an important project for everybody because all Swiss citizens can identify themselves with a country that works towards peace, human rights, democracy against poverty and foreign environment. We will never be perfect. There will be contradictions. We are by no means perfect. And we have to go for a compromise. Just one thing about that. We accept compromises, but thank God, because in the world, there's so many countries and regions that are democratic, but those who win take it all. The winner takes it all, and those who lose will go to war. That is what happens in a lot of so-called democratic countries. For example, in Africa, we have a culture of compromise. Sometimes we do it too lightly, but it's also a project for the youth. It's not just for the youth, but what we should achieve is to build something for the youth, for those who come after us, future generations. That is filling us with enthusiasm, and it is motivating, and so everyone has a value, every single person. Thank you, Mr. President. Well, this wonderful evening is far from over. Are there any further questions to the remainder of the panel members? I'd very much like to see a woman put a question. Are there no women in the room who would like to put a question? I would have liked to put the question to the President, but someone else can answer it. He's just come back from Geneva and Montreux, and the question was, what can Switzerland do more than just lifting the banking secrecy? That's perhaps one of the problems because the banks have traded with weapons and drugs, so he's just come back from Montreux. Switzerland has this possibility of bringing people together in this free zone to promote tolerance, and Switzerland is also one of the pioneers in solar energy. There have been too many wars that circle and focus on oil. Isn't Switzerland in the position to do something about bringing us closer to solar energy away from oil as a source of energy, since Switzerland has so much innovative energy, and it could promote the rest of the world and push it, propel it towards more renewable energy and self-sufficiency? Mr. Colardi, would you like to answer that? Yes, that's a very interesting question. Banks like other industries have certainly committed errors in the past, but I think many have learned from these past mistakes as a preliminary remark. Such a project would be possible in Switzerland. We have good basic infrastructure. The country is quite small. The density is quite high in urban areas. If you think of Lugano, Geneva, Basel, Zurich, and it would be very easy to envisage such a project, an innovative energy project in Switzerland. I think there's enough willpower for such a project. Switzerland is very eager to save energy. I see it when I take the train from Geneva to Bern. You very often don't even find a seat. People love to take the train. There are many possibilities and the will is there in Switzerland and the basic infrastructure is also there. Yes, the gentleman with the scarf, Mr. Reus. I'm a project manager and I'm also involved in a project on mobility as well as in an innovation park. I have a question to you, Mr. Colardi. Would you be willing to help finance such a project in the preliminary stage? Answer. For an organization like ours, this is very innovative and dynamic, maybe a bit too much, but I'm not excluding the possibility. In Switzerland, there are so many banks and other many sources of financing and I'm quite sure we'd find the necessary finance. So one could also consider PPP, a private public partnership to finance such infrastructure projects. There are models of this kind in other countries. All those who speak in favor of liberalizing the energy market and electricity, the power market in Switzerland would need projects that require long-term investment backed by the private sector or by a PPP with the necessary guarantees, especially in an environment where the interest rates are so low. So there is certain recognition for this possibility in Switzerland at present and I'm sure we'll find support, the necessary support from the banks. Absolutely. Well, as Mr. Borkalter has said, we have to think into the future and for very many generations also if you want to have an appointment to meet with my bank. Thank you, that was very nice. Any other questions? People who are not begging for money from Mr. Colardi, maybe watchers. I'm also a pupil from Zurich and I have a question to Mr. Hohmeister. I'd love to be a pilot, that's my dream job. So I have a question about the future. Will there still be pilots in the future? The new Boeing's don't even need pilots or hardly at all. So what's going to happen to this profession? What are the pilots going to do? Are they going to be hired by airline companies in Asia? That question has already been answered for the next generation. We are already developing this next generation plane with Bombardier, it's a two-man cockpit or two-woman cockpit. So at Swiss in any case, we will not have a great change in the number of pilots that we hire. We will continue to train pilots. Currently we are training about 70 to 100 pilots every year and you're certainly free to apply. So in the next four to five years and we cannot see further into the future than that, we will need young people who want to join this job, which is a fantastic job. Of course the profile will change just as the train driver who no longer fills the steam engine with coal. If you look at the high-speed trains in France and in Germany, the train driver has a completely different responsibility than at the beginning of the steam engine. So we'll have the same kind of change and we already have had it in aircraft flying and we cannot forget that the air-to-ground adjustment and communications becoming even more important given the higher density of air traffic. In the past, this used to be a pretty lonely job but now it's going to become more and more a team job. Yes, the profile of pilots is changing and I can tell you that anyone who applies for this job will have a very promising career. Well, what about careers at Novartis? Are there any open slots there? Answer yes, certainly. Certainly, especially in this area, not only in this area, that concerns the future as in air traffic. What's the future in medicines, medication? How can we convert the fatal diseases into chronic diseases to save lives in the long term? We have a great need for many people, for highly qualified, well-trained people. In Switzerland, Novartis has created a lot of new jobs in the recent past. This is a changing environment but there has been a very considerable increase so the answer is definitely yes. We need highly skilled, well-trained people, not Swiss nationals or foreigners. We need the best in each sector. All those who want to work towards reaching this fantastic objective of improving life for everyone. Mr. Beaver, you are a visionary. What would you recommend or advise young people who don't quite know what they want to become, what profession they want to opt for? What would you recommend to them? Into which sector should they move? Well, I can tell you that I don't like working. I really don't like working or work and because I don't like work, I decided to find a job that is a passion. So when you are involved in a passion, you're not working so my first advice to a young woman or man would be to look for a job or a profession that is your passion. And my five children all said, well, dad, I have no passion. I have no great love. Well, that's normal. Mozart, Picasso, they had great passions but they are exceptions. Normal people don't necessarily have a passion but if you're just an ordinary person, try and find a passion. And they ask me, well, how do I do that? Well, dear children, in French we use the word inquisitiveness. You have to be curious about everything, inquisitive about everything. And this will lead you to all sorts of details. You'll ask yourself, why is this flower yellow? You will start investigating and you'll suddenly discover wonderful things and maybe it's biology that will be your passion. So you have to be inquisitive. You have to find out about new things, look into new things. And if you don't have any of this and my son didn't, I said, well, off to China. The whole family started screaming, can't send this young man to China. He's going to be killed, murdered there. And I said, this young man has to go to China and he has to learn to write Chinese. So I sent him off to China for two years. For two years he had to learn six hours a day until he acquired these 1,500 symbols and signs. Now he writes all his e-mails in Chinese and he speaks Chinese and everyone wants to employ him and he has a job simply because he learned to speak Chinese. So I'm just trying to say that if you don't have a great love or a passion, learn languages or try and acquire a skill that is fairly rare. It was very rare 12 years ago to find a person who knew how to write and to read. That's what I tell young people. You don't have to be a genius but it is a good basis on which to build and work. So are there any passionate people in the hall? Yes, I'd like to put a question. Well, I'm a woman. I'm a retired woman and I'd like to put a question to Mr. Colardi because he's a banker. What's going to happen? What's going to happen to the young and future generations with all this money that has been printed that comes out of the printing press but doesn't really exist? That is an excellent question. Well, that is an excellent question. All this money that has been printed will be taken out of circulation again within a generation. Yes, the money was printed. It is in circulation but over the next few generations it will gradually be taken out of circulation again. If the economy starts working well again worldwide and there is some indication for this in some regions it's already started and in others it's going to start we will be able to take money out of circulation. The interest rates will rise again. Two years or one year ago this still seemed to be an insurmountable problem but in a few years' time this will be resolved. You've taken lots of notes. I'd like to put a question to all of you. Switzerland is safe and secure, it's free. All this sounds wonderful but the rate of suicide is very high so what do you think about that? The French are perhaps a bit better off since they don't look at their watch all the time. They maybe are a little happy and therefore have a lower suicide rate. Who would like to say something about happiness in general? Mr. Holmeister, why me? I have my own theory about happiness. Someone who has to be made happy will never be happy. You can only be happy yourself if I have inner peace if I know that I've been honest vis-à-vis of myself if I have my own dignity. Only that will allow me to be happy but many people are seeking something that doesn't exist. Their demands are too high. Their requirements are too high. They have the wrong objectives or live in a virtual world and that unfortunately is the case due to this increasing technology. All these external influences without bearing the corollary which is responsibility. So we are exposed to these influences, these factors of influence from the outside and you cannot be happy but I think you can only be happy if you seek for this happiness inside yourself and have the necessary peace and dignity. As Mr. Beaver said, I think if you can develop yourself in such a way as to be unique, have unique interests and also are completely engaged and committed to such unique interests and don't just sit there on their hands and wait until something happens. Sometimes you need to become active in charity work or be a volunteer without being remunerated because that is something where you can do good for the community and assume responsibility for others. By doing so, you can become very happy. You don't have to necessarily be a manager or a CEO to be happy. I cannot prevent anyone from jumping off a bridge. I'm sorry if this is not the answer that you were expecting. Well, look at the weather between November and February. The hill I live on is not high enough so I'm always stuck in the fog and that can make you very depressive. I know this as a fact. If you have depression as part of your mental setup, then you are at risk. I don't know whether... This is constitutional. If you take London or Berlin where the metropolitan area is much denser built up, maybe it's due to that. I'm seeing it from the point of view of the human being. Every individual can do very much to be happy. If everyone does, which has already been mentioned, that is sharing with others, not only in material terms. One of my basic principles is to share, to delegate, share interests, share responsibilities. That makes me much more content than if I simply pay out money. Another 10 minutes. The lady with the orange scarf. I must say that the banks have become rather... have come away quite unscathed from the discussion this evening. There was a tremendous redistribution as a result of the banking crisis and there was a redistribution that came from the bottom and went to the top, Mr. Colardi. I think we need to redistribute wealth also worldwide. Oxfam has published a figure. 85 persons worldwide own as much as half of the world population. There must be something wrong, basically wrong when this is correct. And I think you, the banks, Mr. Colardi, have a very important role to play. Depends on where you focus your investments on in Germany. The Deutsche Bank participates and continues to participate in the armaments industry and speculation on foodstuffs in the agro-business. So when can we conclude that it is simply not possible to make profits from absolutely anything and everything, Mr. Colardi? Well, history has not been fully written on this subject. I do agree with you entirely. Banks have indeed acted irresponsibly in very many sectors and speculated and generated a lot of money for the banks themselves or some of their customers. But I must say, honestly, this is simply no longer possible due to the flood of new regulations and the banks have to have a lot of capital in order to trade in certain areas. I hear from other colleagues in the banking sector that management now discusses whether something is ethical or not, whether it's legal or not. Tax money that has been used to rescue banks in the past years, well, I recently read in a study that in most countries, this has been paid back with quite a big profit. This has been the case in Switzerland as well. Of course, it was a very stressful situation for the whole system and the banks were certainly not prepared to go through such a stressful situation. Governments were forced to intervene, but on the whole and in nearly everywhere, this problem has been rectified and all the new regulations have as a purpose to ensure that this no longer happens. If a bank assumes too much risk, then such a bank would no longer in the future be rescued by the taxpayer. And the last part of my answer would be as follows. Not only the banking industry, but in the watch industry, in the pharmaceutical industry, CSR Corporate Social Responsibility has evolved a lot. All I can say is that I recommend you read up how companies are committed to such responsibility. We, for example, have decided to commit ourselves to the training of young people, and this we do through a foundation. This is something that many banks and many companies will decide to make this one of their business priorities. Now, as to the redistribution worldwide, this cannot be a responsibility only for the banks. It's simply a matter also of opportunities not being distributed fairly. Maybe this is not so much the case in Switzerland, but in other countries, especially in the emerging markets, it's very clear that a very small percentage of the population owns more than 80% of wealth, and this will have to be adjusted in the long term. Well, we've only got five minutes left, and I want to give the opportunity to someone else to put a question. The gentleman here in the middle. Thank you. I'm Ben Ordung from Germany. We have four representatives from four different sectors, and we've heard that the future is quite promising. I'd like to ask you how you see your social responsibility and what kind of projects you intend to support in the years to come. Let me start, says Mr. Jimenez from Novartis. That's a very far-of-reaching question, and there's not just one answer. The corporate social responsibility, and I think we're all in favor of this, is, in fact, the following. You have to manage the company innovatively, make sure that the company can survive, that jobs are guaranteed to create new jobs. I think that is the basic responsibility of any company, any going venture. You've heard from Mr. Collardi that there are other possibilities. Every company, or at least I believe that every single company fixes its own focal points and objectives. I could tell you what our objectives are, our focus points, where we are active in Africa, what we do in other countries, where we give medication and medicines free of charge, and where it has been confirmed, we have been able to save hundreds of thousands of lives, and we don't publicize this. But then there's the political debate. It's a very complicated debate, and the question is how much is enough, or isn't there a need for more? That is the basic political debate that every company has to think about. It's a debate every company has to have, and every company has to find an answer to this. That is to say, when you need to create new jobs, when you need to reorient your focal first, every company is an organic body. I know that we could go on discussing these questions, but time is nearly up. I'd like to ask Mr Beaver to close this discussion. You are a supporter of Switzerland, a Swiss fan. Perhaps you can give the participants a take away message, a take home message? Well, I believe that the Swiss can get up every morning and say to themselves, today is going to be a better day than yesterday. If I think of these Spaniards, young Spaniards, the young Portuguese, or anywhere in any other country, how can these young people even get up in the morning and say or maintain that today is going to be better than yesterday? It's not possible. The only thing they can say, I hope is not going to be worse than yesterday. We have a lot of problems and poverty in Switzerland as well, but for the majority of the Swiss, it is true to be able to say that today is better than yesterday. And if that person is really young, he or she can say day after tomorrow will be even better than today and yesterday. And that is a tremendous privilege when a whole country, a nation, can say this, make this kind of statement in a world where there's so much injustice, so much misery, so much poverty. So we have to be grateful that we have this privilege. And since we are so grateful about it and for it, how, what can I do to return part of this privilege because this is something that has to be passed on. Otherwise it will have been, not have been beneficial, it would have been selfish. So what really counts for me is this optimism, to think optimistically. We, the Swiss, have the great fortune to be able to be optimistic and think optimistically. So I tell every Swiss person make an effort and think this way. That was a wonderful closing statement. Thank you very much. All that remains for me to do is to thank you for the debate, the discussion, for the participation. Thank the panelists, of course, very warmly for having taken the trouble to come to this session. And maybe see you next year.