 Good afternoon to you in the St. Lucia and across the Caribbean and beyond. Welcome to this special discussion program linked to the 40th regular meeting of Karakam Heads of Government. You may be aware that Heads of Government of the Caribbean community are in St. Lucia. They've been here for the last two days and they continue to meet tomorrow as they look at matters related to the development of the Caribbean community and ways to bring benefits to you, the people of the Caribbean. We thought that as we work along with the meeting that we will have an engagement with you, the people of the community, to hear from you and to speak to you about benefits and challenges of regional integration. And so we decided to have this special program this afternoon and to give you a chance to reach us and to air your questions and your concerns. My name is Kendall Morgan, I'm the Head of Communications at the Karakam Secretariat and I'm joined on the panel by three gentlemen and I'll let them tell you a bit more about themselves, but let me just introduce them starting to my far left. I have the Ambassador of Barbados to Karakam, Mr. David Kamejom and to his right, Mr. Felix Gregoire, who is Dominica's Ambassador to Karakam and to my immediate left, Mr. Gordon Charles, who is a representative of the organizing group of the Caribbean private sector organization. And before we get to you and hear the matters that you would want to hear about and to discuss, I'd ask the gentlemen on the panel to tell us a bit about themselves and the roles that they perform in relation to what's happening regionally. And I'll start in the middle and ask Mr. Gregoire to go first and ask him to tell us a bit about himself and about the role that he performs as Dominica's Ambassador to Karakam. Okay, good afternoon to our listeners and thank you, Mr. Moderator. As you said, I'm Ambassador Felix Gregoire. I have worked in the public service for quite a long time and I retired as the Secretary to the Cabinet in 2012 and in 2013 I became the Dominica's Ambassador to Karakam. At that time Karakam had started a reform program and the ambassadors then would call the change agents because they played a part in more or less steering the reform process at Karakam. That brought us the strategic plan that Karakam adopted sometime in 2014 or 2013 and also there were changes in terms of staff at the Secretariat. So I was involved in that at the early stages. I'll say more about what Karakam has done and what role I've played but I'd also like to see that I was the Vice President of the Reynolds Islands Cricket Board and that's we're talking regional integration and cricket is a very important tool in our efforts to unify ourselves and to work as a team. So I was part of the Reynolds Islands Cricket Board and today the West Indies team beat Afghanistan so which means they won their first match and their last match. So we're looking forward to the team progressing from there on. So having said that I would just like to close here and come back later. Right we'll expand a bit more and so that's an ambassador that is linked from today from the national to the regional. I want to invite Mr. Gordon Charles who's to my immediate left to tell us about himself before we get into the depth of the discussions. Okay so my my regular responsibility is as the CEO of the JQ Charles group of companies that operates in St. Lucia primarily in St. Lucia. It's somewhat diversified in the areas of retail and real estate with some finance as well and that's as I say what my my regular responsibility is but my presence here comes more from that of being involved in the OECS business council in the first instance which was formulated some years ago and has been somewhat dormant recently but subsequent to the initiative of the carry-on heads in inviting the private sector to participate in the CSME through the OECS business council. I was contacted and asked if I would represent the OECS or be the OECS representative of the group that was coming together to form this entity so that is what I'm initiated by presence here. Okay and we do have a quite a lot to talk about the private sector and its role in regional development but let's say from Mr. David Comijon about himself is probably a well-known figure to you across the Caribbean but I'm sure there'll be more that you can see about himself Mr. Comijon. Thank you Kendall. Well I come very much from a Caribbean integration family my father was a Methodist minister of religion so if you know anything about the Methodist church in the Caribbean they they move all around the region so my father was from Grenada I was born in St. Vincent I also lived in Trinidad and in Barbados I have brothers from born in Guyana Trinidad St. Vincent and my mother was born in Barbados but grew up in Guyana so I have lived that Caribbean integration experience I'm an attorney at law and for most of my work in life I have worked in Barbados doing law but also very much involved in political activism very much involved in Pan-Africanism Caribbean integration as as an activist and recently over the past year I have taken up a position with the new Mia Motley administration in Barbados as Barbados' ambassador to Carycom and to the association of Caribbean states so that's what brings me here to this 40th Carycom heads of government conference. Okay thank you very much now to you viewing across the region and beyond I will I will start the discussion with a few questions but the program really belongs to you and we want to hear from from you those of you following us on the Facebook pages on which we are streaming the Carycom Facebook page the government of St Lucia Facebook page and UETV Facebook page you can send your queries your questions and we will present them to the panel we've also we're having this discussion in the media center for the Carycom heads of government meetings so we've asked the accredited media representatives who are here to feel the questions as well and so you will most likely be hearing from them. I want to begin with Mr. Grego again and to ask in your in your role as as Dominica's ambassador to Carycom and your engagement with the people of Dominica and the rest of the region are you able to see benefits from the country's participation in the regional project and if so can you identify what some of those are and also what sort of challenges do you see from time to time in the attempt to deliver these benefits okay thank you as the ambassador to the Carycom in Dominica we have what we call a regional integration and diaspora unit and I'm also head of that unit so what that means is that in addition to operating at the level of the regional level I also have a role to play at the national level because in all what we do and we have been talking about decisions taken by heads over the years and the slow pace of implementation of those decisions we forget that member states are responsible for implementing those decisions so the heads will take a decision to the benefit of the citizens but if we as officials do not implement those decisions then we do not move forward so so at each level or in each country there must be an institution to carry out the functions based on decisions taken and that is what I've been involved in for example one of the things that I saw was lacking was that the man on the street was not too aware of the role of Carycom so while we take all those decisions but the people man on the street may not know what benefit he can derive from such a decision and my unit with others undertook a program of of education and we had town hall meetings who went into the school system to actually sensitize young and old about Carycom and what Carycom has done and how they can benefit from Carycom and one of the one of the things I found interesting was that when I said that every member or every citizen was a member of Carycom people didn't quite understand that so I said well look do you have a passport and he said yes and then the passport is a Carycom passport so there you are your Carycom citizen because you have a Carycom passport so these are the tangible benefits that you can actually people can relate to and because you have the passport you can travel I will hear more about the CSME later but that's one of the products of the CSME that you can travel from one country to the next country and you get automatic stay for six months so there's no the whole idea to have travel hassle-free travel so you're moving and the immigration office is not supposed to be asking you the questions you used to hear before where you're going to stay where's your return ticket and stuff like that you move into a member state and then you get an automatic six month stay and then of course if you stay longer than six months you can there are other provisions you can use to either continue or renew your stay extend your stay and if you want to work then you have their provisions for you to work and you do not need a work permit if you have the skill certificate so these are the tangible benefits and there are quite a few I can we have two hours so maybe I can take a little time for example Dominica was hit by a disaster we call it different names but a monstrous storm Hurricane Maria and from our point in Dominica the assistance we got from the Ocaricum national and Ocaricum countries sisters and brothers was tremendous I don't think we would have been able to recover so quickly if we did not have the support of our brothers and sisters in in the Caribbean first of all as soon as we got hit all the governments pledged a certain amount of money to Dominica that's the first thing then we had difficulties at home in terms of food supplies we got a tremendous amount of water and food from our brothers and sisters in the Caribbean another interesting thing was the because of the scale of the disaster our security forces could not manage the situation on the ground and the RSS came in the RSS is a product of Ocaricum came in and assisted our security people to to put law and order so that the citizens could go about their business in in a in a satisfactory manner so these are all the benefits that we can derive from and there are quite a few of other other benefits which will come but I just want to say that again we as nationals have responsibilities and we have to do what is necessary to implement the decisions taken by our heads because we cannot leave it to the secretariat that's based in Guyana to do all those things we have to play a part and a very important stakeholder in implementing decisions because they're the ones who do the trading the business people the private sector and I note Mr Charles that there is an attempt at creating a regional entity the Caribbean private sector organization you tell us a bit a bit more about about that effort okay this effort firstly was spawned through or from the Caribbean heads this is all part of the CSME initiative that it was identified that engaging the private sector would be who are primarily the engines of of growth across the region would be of certain value to the process so through Prime Minister Motley who is the the chairhead for the CSME initiative she decided to reach out to primarily initially to a series of larger companies across the region directly to the the owners of of capital and business across the region so you have larger companies like and some are called and and Muslims and so on in Jamaica and Goddard's in Barbados so across the region she reached out to a range of companies and said invited them to come together and create some sort of Caribbean private sector organization basically and the private sector took up a challenge as I say I came via the my invitation is really through the OCS representing the OCS but took up a challenge and this was the first meeting was held in in Trinidad in the same time meeting in December of love 2018 where we got together and we decided yes we would take on the challenge we see the overseas the obvious synergies and benefits that we can both provide and also derive from CSME and from being a part of its implementation so the committee what we call the organizing organizing group formed a small committee and started looking at how we create an organization we brought on board a consultant consulting firm regional consulting firm who helped guide us through the process and I've had a series of back meetings with the speaker and so we've gotten to the point now where we had the capacity now to present to the CACOM heads and to the conference our proposal for creating this initiative there is certainly value we feel that there are three primary things that will benefit from this one is that if we can get involved directly it should help maximize the use of labor across the region because the companies are now looking at how we can move labor and human resources across the territories so that where there are needs and gaps that they can be filled from other territories two to also be able to maximize the other resources whether it is capital or natural resources that exist across the region and I heard mentioned this morning in our conversation so where products could possibly be grown in one territory but sent to another for processing where there's a much greater capacity for processing or lower costs of energy and three is to in the long run try and make our region so much more self-sufficient both from a provision of food services to the region so we can decrease our import bills across the region but also in everything that we do if we can be much more efficient the private sector can then there's definitely a benefit to the region and by direct response there's a direct benefit private sector organizations itself so that's why we feel that we welcome the opportunity to participate because we do see that the whole initiative and driver CSME is one that is definitely where we think the region should enter. You did a presentation to the heads of government today did you get a sense that they're ready to work along with the private sector at this point? Without putting anyone else on the spot I would say yes I think that the work that has been done was fairly comprehensive and self-explanatory it is very structured and in our presentation to be we were able to lay out not just the goals and aims but our internal structure that we expect you know how we where we expect to be seated and some of the initial initiatives that we think we should achieve etc and also to provide a sense of confidence and confidence that that the focus of inclusion which is by the very nature of what CSME is and the fact that we ourselves were invited and included into this process our efforts have been one of open inclusion and broad diversification so that the membership potential and access to the proposed entity the carry-on private sector organization is not one that will be purely for the big boys across the region or to favor certain people everyone has access obviously there will be varying levels depending on on your input and also your opportunities but the idea is that it's to create an organization that will really reach across the region and across the various sizes of of businesses so whether you're a large large regional entity or a small small business across the region there are avenues in which you can participate and be a part of this organization Mr. Kamijung some people say that the Karakam concept is just a romantic vision for some people who see themselves as regionalists but that it is not a practical approach or feasible approach to really developing the region um but I know as the ambassador you're going to be an advocate but you've been in the in the in the in the regional business for for quite a while what would you say to someone who genuinely feels that way well I see regional integration as something that is very central to the social transformation of our people it's not regional integration is not only about economics I mean we understood we understood a long time ago that those entities that were intent on oppressing and exploiting our people brought most of our ancestors across the Atlantic deposited them on separate small islands and proceeded to exploit them to keep them separate to keep them weak so that they could be fodder for exploitation we understand that our first emancipatory step was the breaking down of that system of slavery and how did we do it we did it by regional enterprise we didn't accomplish it in our individual territories it was it was the combination of slave rebellions right across this region from Haiti to to Dominica to Jamaica to Barbados in 1816 and Demarara in 1823 and Jamaica in 1832 so from from the very earliest time I can tell you in Barbados our one of our national heroes Samuel Jackman Prescott the first black man to enter the House of Assembly way back in the 1830s one of the first roles he played was to try when slavery was abolished to try to bring together what he called the colonial union of colored people in other words even even back then there was a recognition that for us to be the people that we ought to be for us to have our full freedom that we needed that we needed to come together and to unite our resources and to develop that that collective strength and this has been a guiding vision we go back to the 1940s when out of the disturbances of the 30s we formed the Caribbean Labor Congress what was the idea the idea was if we want to be a real people if we want to have independence if we want to have genuine sovereignty and nationhood that we needed to come together and the first our first concept was that we come together in a federation we did that unfortunately it collapsed after four four years but the idea had taken root that if we wanted to be a real nation people if we wanted to break the bonds of economic and social and political dependency that had been foisted upon us in that in those centuries of colonialism and slavery that we could not do it individually we had to come together and unite our strengths and so the primary of Barbados fought very hard after the breakup of the federation Errol Barrow the effort at establishing the federation of the little eight um and eventually that they weren't able to do so but by 1965 the three of them Barrow in Barbados Burden Antigua Burnham in Guyana were able to come together and to re to resuscitate that federationist movement this time not through a political entity but through this process of regional economic integration and so we were clear we were clear look if we want to break out of the bonds of economic dependency um businesses in Barbados needed a bigger market than the island that's the simple island market of Barbados so Barbadian manufacturers Barbadian businesses needed to have at their disposal a wider regional market similarly if we if we really want to be independent people they're certain institutions we need to establish whether it's a university whether it is um a court system whether it is a mechanism for responding to to regional disasters and it's difficult to do these things singly if we come together regionally we can combine our our resources and what we can't accomplish as a small island nation we could accomplish within uh a larger pooling of resources so the point I'm trying to make is Caribbean integration is not simply about economic matters it is not simply about matters of trade it is about a people finding their sovereignty of people coming together in a structure the large enough powerful enough for them to stand tall on the world stage for them to be respected on the world stage and for for for them to give to the masses of our people a mechanism for social transformation the colonial and slavery system said that the life expectancies of our people was to be very narrow very confined so we put you on little Montserrat and you remain there and your destiny is to be there and you dare not move off of that little island unless somebody gave you permission to move and seek a wider destiny for yourself and we said no we are going to give to our people a whole region in which to find their destiny a whole region in which to search out life and career opportunities for themselves what are we doing we are launching a psychological liberatory emancipatory experience and so I want to insist that when we talk about um Caribbean integration we don't simply restrict it to some narrow issue of trade and economics we see it in its widest dimension as the instrument that gives us national sovereignty independence dignity and provides an avenue for social transformation and the liberation of our people thank you and the well mr Gregor had actually touched on some of the the wider platforms on which the integration process demonstrates itself in the form of benefits going using the Dominica experience but there are a number of institutions he could have mentioned perhaps CXC as an example we've all well maybe it's been up to some of our times and we did some of us did you see but a lot of our younger viewers would have done CXC for instance it's uh it's a it's part of the the character makeup um sedema helps the countries which are are uh devastated by by hurricanes and also to uh help them to um to prepare themselves properly to prevent um the disaster um impacting at its worst so that um there are these mechanisms through which the benefits can be demonstrated i don't know if mr Gregor wants to pick up on that and expand a bit well yes um it it's always important to refresh um the minds because we take those things for granted we know about you we we know about CXC we know about sedema uh we know about caddy agriculture and we don't seem to relate those things to to curriculum and the wider integration movement so it's always good to to do that and uh in recent times and and uh david mentioned legal aspects we had the ccj the caribbean court of justice and um we are struggling in some respects because not all countries have um signed up to make it the final court of appeal but um all of them have in fact signed up to it um in in in some in some in some way but the ccj is there to replace the previous council and um if david had to talk about the previous council you'd hear his views about the colonial masters but we replace the the previous council with ccj which is closer to to the citizens so instead of going to london for justice you you you go to tunida and not only go to tunida the ccj also comes to the territory the member states so they hold hearings they have um court sessions in the member states so that um you don't have to move if if the cj comes to to your members to to your country so we have the ccj um which is very important um to us in terms of of of legal matters so yeah all those even in health i mean health is very important we have kafa based in tunida and and i'm seeing health but let me relate health to to to to an example when when we're threatened with ebola um a few years ago i'm sure most of us um we were panicking because we didn't know how to kind of deal with ebola but then regionally we came up with measures so we could deal with ebola and and i i have to mention um the government of cuba gave us tremendous support when we were looking at how we could deal with putting mechanisms in place to deal with ebola um there are other threats as well um um in recent times so all these are institutions that we have there to assist us i mentioned caddy caddy is is is on a um an institution dealing with agriculture and in all the countries that we have agriculture being practiced um because of of um the land resources that we have so so caddy has been doing that but while i'm saying that i i need to to to say that generally generally um we are getting into a situation where we are not doing research not only in agriculture but in other other disciplines as well um for some reason we do not pay too much attention to research and research is very important because based on our findings we can take informed decisions so i'm just seeing that that's one challenge we're having now because we are not paying attention to research uh research is tedious it is long term thing and most of us like to see quick results you want to see the thing now and not everything you can see you can see now um for example um we have had those disasters in the region our ecosystems have been affected forests have been destroyed the marine life affected and we have now a platform to start research programs to see how those ecosystems are coming back all the repairs being done so that in the future um when we have those disasters we know what to expect uh i'm saying so because um i'm i'm an office i dealt i i worked with the means of agriculture actually i used to be the director of forest and wildlife and um i i have seen a number of things over the years and i would like to see the continuation of some of those things um i can relate some of those things to um like in st lucha you have a parrot um it's only found in st lucha in dominica we have two parrots only found in dominica and if we had a disaster to wipe out our parrots what do what would happen so we have to put measures in place and the measures there's some things are being done but um there's more we could do and i think right now even this situation we should step up on our research activities and so that's your reference to cardy but i'm just broadening it to the other areas okay and i pick up on something that means the gardener is in terms of their umbrella private sector organization providing perhaps the business environment to uh support the the small businesses not just deal with the the larger ones um because now we have um an attempt at pushing entrepreneurship and getting younger people into businesses and so on and retelling them the the the region is is is your marketplace so to what extent do you see that they working together the private sector aiding in that push that is being made to encourage our young people into business okay well the whole thrust and focus of um of the private sector at this level is for the strengthening of csm and as i as i related earlier um it is to see that we can maximize employment and maximize use of our resources so directly the this creates the format or the link or the forum i should say at which the policies that govern some of the things that the the region does which which which is done at a caricum level it means now that the private sector is going to be if adopted at the table and are allowed to participate in the policy in the policymaking um this has two benefits one um um it can benefit from the experience that um that um we can bring to the table with regard to to the business and and to the economics of the region and two it means that this institution can take that information directly now and see how it can turn it around and drive it down into the the individual member states through the organizations that that feed up into the the the caricum private sector organization so it's an opportunity and as i as i mentioned earlier there are various categories of participation um right down to very small businesses and as a matter of fact right coming out of our meeting we had um uh just an initial an informal conversation with cdb um in excuse me in which they indicated that there is potentially um soft funding available for exactly those sorts of initiatives to find ways um for the smaller enterprises to get up and running um but very often there's a big disconnect between those opportunities that that exist at the caricum level and that that is apparent at the small operating businesses so one of our roles would be to make sure that we create that link to bring the private sector regardless of its size to bring rather the initiatives and opportunities that exist in caricum to the private sector there's a sense that some of the even the larger companies are comfortable with their national market and national operations and that even if the provisions are made for the creation of a regional market that um there wouldn't be a lot of uh uptick on that um what's the feeling of the members of the private sector organization aren't they well as a matter of fact i'm thinking you know we talk about um how we have formed this the ccj and um cari and all these things where we have regional integration there is a lot of we private sector integration behind the scenes so there are lots of of um companies that are operating not just coming in into territories but through private sector deals so business to business making arrangements and partnerships um to be able to bring their products to the different territories and so on so that already happens as from from my perspective um i'm quite significantly in the background and i'm not just talking about um large entities buying into small into small regions i'm talking about um truly where there are synergies that are put potentially because we see the opportunities of a wider region um the economies of skill limit us all and therefore if you can have that wider market there's an always an opportunity but it's not necessarily one way um one entity has to get it so you partner with someone in another territory who brings certain skills or assets or or or availability to to your venture and you do it jointly so that is already happening on an on an i'll say on an increasingly ongoing basis across the region as companies are seeing opportunities and seeing exactly that how can i widen my footprint um and um you do so by um by partnering so that is already happening in the private sector but on a much more quiet basis it's it's filtering what about the with regard to sourcing skills um for uh is that readily available in the region um okay so that's that's one of the challenges and ironically um one of one of our members of organizing committee just mentioned to me last night that he actually has his um his HR person down in Trinidad looking for a resource that is scarce in his region he's hoping he says if he can get 15 engineers for example um right now out of Trinidad because the the industry down there is a little bit low and there's this available capacity whereas he doesn't have that capacity from from his territory um so he's now looking for it but that is one of the things and that's why i i um was mentioning in an earlier um interview one of the the um immediate wins that we were asked to look at is actually the whole concept about the free movement of labor and we have from the word go endorse it because we realize that you will you will always potentially have a mismatch of of capacity versus opportunity in any region in any particular state within the region right and the opportunity now is to make it as free flowing as possible so that someone from um one territory can pick up and go across to another um because there is a need there that they have the training or capacity to fulfill and um um these are the sorts of things that we feel that can start to happen and we can get wins from as quickly as possible as long as the carry come heads agree to the opening and the widening of the free movement because that is something that would limit at this point in time right um the easier movements i don't want to hear from uh two ambassadors about the free movement uh matter because it seems to be well from from from i said uh a lot of the queries relate to that but i i want to pause for us to to take in as i mentioned earlier we'll be taking questions from uh viewers across the region who are following our stream and miss uh janet kuru of ui tv has been monitoring janet thank you very much um panelists i have a question here from claire palmer and she asked with the exodus of nurses from the caribbean do the heads of government have anything positive in the pipeline to encourage nurses to stick around the region that's one and on the carry come website um the question was what is the status of the reparations movement in the region thank you okay well let's begin with nurses who on the panel will take that or do we i don't know that this i don't know that there'll be anything done to um to um hold our nurses in in the region i but i what i do know is that efforts are going to be made um to increase our capacity to educate and train nurses as we know um one of the more recent developments in our region is that we're under verge of um constructing establishing a fourth campus a fifth campus of the university of west indies in antiga and one of the areas of specialization of that campus is going to be in the the training of nurses um so so yes so we um obviously there are many developed countries that um have a great interest in our nurses offer them um better maybe better salaries than we can we can pay and entice them away so much so that in barbados we are now looking to dana to help us with nurses but the regional movement is responding to the situation by putting new capacity in place to to train to train nurses and the carry come skills um program includes nurses as one of the categories of skills that is permitted to move freely across the region so um our there's there's a nurses are being encouraged we recognize that it's a valuable skill and our heads of government in their wisdom have selected nurses as one of the 12 categories that have thus far um been identified as those persons who should be permitted to move freely across the region so far as reparations is concerned reparations is a big topic now all over the world in fact just about a week ago we had the spectacle of congressional hearings in the u.s congress on the topic of reparations and i can tell you that the impetus for for that development in the united states stemmed directly from carry come establishing its carry come reparations commission in 2013 and embarking upon this quest for reparatory justice um so a lot of the a lot of the the the recent running on reparations has really been done by by carry com um with the change of government in barbed as um last year prime minister motley has taken up responsibility as the prime minister with lead responsibility for reparations um she hasn't she hasn't been able to do much on that score thus far i mean her hands have been really full what with um having to negotiate an imf program for barbed as you know taking over a barbed as in in some sort of crisis and having to shepherd it over the past over the past year having to deal with the csm e lead responsibility for the csm e and then the hot potato issue of of venezuela that landed on her plate as one of the trio of prime ministers who was given responsibility for the issue of venezuela so she has really had her plate very full but i know that um very soon from now she will be turning her formidable energy and um intellect to the to her portfolio as lead um prime minister for for reparations so i think i think carry com must be given tremendous credit for taking up the reparations cause for recognizing that that we have all people i mean if there's one set of people in this world that should see itself as the champions of dignity and justice for for african people um it really must be it really must be us and i think we have done well in stepping forward taking up that responsibility and sparking now what is virtually um what is promising to be a worldwide movement so i would say that um the the future is bright for the reparations cause i think more and more um all over the world um we are coming to a common understanding that where these terrible crimes against humanity were um committed where people have suffered um from those crimes that there must be there must be an effort to repair the damage it touches on the issue of uh strengthen numbers generally and um maybe it is something that we should seek to emphasize through examples that there have been instances where the numerical strength of the the carry com membership has has has worked to the benefit of the region can you expand a bit on that as well oh definitely i mean you know carry com you know we need to be very clear carry com is about free trade it is about providing opportunities for for free movement of all people it is about these extremely valuable um institutions that we have built that things that we need if we are to fuel our development if we are to be a real nation and that we could not do on our own Barbados for example probably could not have um its own university but so we have functional cooperation we have the trade we have um the free movement the functional cooperation but we also have the collective foreign policy and i think maybe the best example of where that collective strength made itself felt was in 1972 when the United States and the OAS had totally isolated the Caribbean nation of Cuba totally isolated everybody broke diplomatic relations with Cuba and um it took four courageous carry com states um or states that in 1972 had just made that fate of that that all important decision to transform um carifter into carry com and it was at the same conference that that decision was made that these four four Caribbean states Jamaica Trinidad and Tobago Guyana and Barbados made a decision that collectively they were going to break the diplomatic isolation of Cuba and collectively recognize Cuba and establish normal diplomatic and economic relations with Cuba and they did it in the face of great opposition from the mighty United States of America now no no one of them by themselves might have had the gumption or the power um to do it but coming together as a foursome they were able to do it collectively and you know what happened as soon as they made that courageous four pronged step the rest of the hemisphere fell in line all these big countries that felt that they had to follow the dictates of the u.s and isolate Cuba recognize that no this um these four Caribbean countries made sense that um that Cuba was part of our family of nations and we should have normal um intercourse with the Cuba so that that is a very um telling example um other examples could be um the role that we played as part of the African Caribbean and Pacific group of nations in negotiating the first lo mein um convention with what was then the european economic community so and and again in more recent days venezuela venezuela um we have learned that um you know when we come together and act in concert that we wield substantial power and um what we have done recently in in insisting to the world that no um we can't just be about uh you know civil war in venezuela invading venezuela no no no um we must insist and we do so collectively that the rules of international law the principles of international law must be respected and I think we can see that um carricom has actually won the argument because more and more countries all over the world are coming that coming around to that position that carricom took collectively and perhaps if we had to do it as individual countries we would not have been able to do it if I may just add something from a from a slightly different perspective you talked about the what we the perceived bring in terms of our nurses um traveling because of better opportunities outside the region that are better that is a fact um I can see in san luscio we um we we played with that as well um at a even at a corporate level um you have a challenge finding um pharmacists for example um so these are all the things but that that in itself will create an opportunity for young people to see look there is a demand for for that there but let's take a let's take a look at at our region and see some of the things that we have done together so you have you have two prongs outside of economics that are important to our to any economy um health and education with education we formed ui we created a regional university because if we did not have ui you imagine how much more of a brain drain there would be because everybody who had to be educated from a tertiary level would be leaving the region and the question is how many would come back we have been able to capture and actually create a world class education system so that the question is now can we replicate this in any way or form with with health to create an opportunity where in actual fact we are seen as a leading area and maybe the demand um the two things can happen first of all um you know we say it's a brain drain but i also i also take the perspective that in actual fact our biggest export actually regionally is is intellectual is is our human resource and capacity we i mean you see west indians some caribbean people all over the globe at all levels because we are an intelligent people and therefore there is an opportunity for them to go but there's two things there's an opportunity to come back even more prepared to lead us in whatever field that it is that they've taken on and come back to the region because you often find that happening but secondly is there an opportunity for us to as a region sit down and look at health the same way we looked at education and find opportunities to create a stronger system that that supports our our our society but also provides us a better opportunity for our users is it that we've um the the the creation of our better institutions um have been in the in the in the um past decades as opposed to now we we heard of cricket earlier in the discussion now people compare to you of now with just a year you know we're looking at replicating institutions that have been been successful um uh where where where do you see where do you see this in in in terms of of how we move forward as a as a region you want to go okay well i would say that carry come has not been given enough credit for the tremendous job it has often done in establishing first class regional institutions let us look my brother here spoke about the ccj the caribbean court of justice you know only thus far only four carry come countries have signed on to the ccj as their national highest court of appeal the others are still hanging on to this colonial institution known as the british um privy council and and and when you ask sometimes well why is this well we we have doubts about the our own institution but well i can tell you something um the ccj is an absolutely first class institution and it is a credit to those caribbean architects who put that institution in place first of all they establish this institution with a trust fund of a hundred million us dollars so in other words the financing of the ccj is secure the ccj ccj doesn't have to look for any government finding money for for finances operations it has its own trust fund run by a very accomplished board of trustees um the ccj and because of that and because of the fact that it has first class um um international um jurist um it has its first class headquarters in in port of spain and unlike the the privy council as my brother here said if you can't get to the ccj ccj the ccj will come to you or will even make provision for you to speak to them through videoconferencing facilities now it is estimated that for the average caribbean citizen to access the privy council in london you are looking at something like 60 to 70 000 us dollars right when all the bills are added up the costs of the cost of retaining english attorneys the cost of filing the cost of travel to the uk the cost of the hotel accommodation all the rest of it in other words the privy council is a court only for wealthy caribbean citizens or for murderers because if you're a murderer on death row you will get some um british lawyers who will do the case pro bono so but unless you are a murderer on death row or you are a very wealthy caribbean business person or individual the ccj is not the the the privy council is not really a court for you so we have this first class institution that we establish ourselves using our own intelligence and genius and initiative and yet some of us give it short shrift and look down upon it so it is very unfortunate i mean i have a card in my hands here carry calm impacts um the carry calm implementation agency for crime and security this is the carry calm institution that keeps us safe in this region that looks after the safety and security of of our region it said quarters is there in in trinidad and so there are so many institutions i mean some will mention the cdb where would we be where would so many of our countries be we're not for the caribbean development bank you know it's not it's an associate institution of carry calm cardic i mean the this and some recent ones the um the carry calm the caribbean center um on climate change or the caribbean center for renewable energy and energy efficiency or the caribbean regional organization for standards and quality and we can we can go on and on and virtually all of these are very high quality organizations yeah so i think it's just one of the things that we like to emphasize that carry calm is not the carry calm secretary at something we need to repeat because a lot of people think that it's that construct in georgetown that is carry calm but we the member states and the bodies that help to implement um the agreements that the member states make a part of the overall carry calm construct and a number of institutions have been created to facilitate the um specialized areas of development that the countries of the region want to work on together and you heard you referred about about some of them i'm going to come to you mr grego but i also want us to um to to remind our viewers about some of the the benefits of of uh free movement what what what what um what is involved what has been approved for them and especially in recent times because as i mentioned earlier and i wanted to get back to it it is one of the areas of of interest that our people have because of course the opportunities that are being created are for them and it's these opportunities that would go beyond their their national national borders so the whole concept of movement of people and what are the benefits mr grego well i was preoccupied with um the ccj in terms of the way forward because we need to have all member states on board in terms of the ccj now on fourth there's a big challenge at this point in time unfortunately some member states must have a referendum before going to the ccj according to their constitution i think we had we had two countries doing recently we did that too so which means that while we are putting those things in place to benefit the citizens but the citizens maybe they another way that's why they are voting against going to the ccj voting against their best interests exactly and i've been what i've been trying to work this i've been talking to people about why why is it happening because i followed the the campaign in antica it was it was an excellent campaign yeah so it was an excellent campaign and i was shocked when um the people voted no so that is a challenge for yeah how do we proceed yeah i think public education i think enough of our people don't know about the first of all many of our people don't even know about the existence of some of these caricom institutions and um if they know about them they don't know about their stellar record so i think that caricom has we because we are caricom we have a responsibility to ourselves to really tell our story and make sure every single citizen of the caribbean knows that story and um but if i could just touch on the freedom of movement um the the i am i am a big big fan of this caricom skill nationals program because i think that it is it gives you a leverage to motivate your young people to say to them look in a world in which people are putting up walls some some want to put up physical walls some are putting up regular walls of regulations but they're putting up walls to keep out people like you they don't want you the only space that is taken taken down barriers and saying look we are creating this common regional space for you is the caribbean community and our leaders are saying to you the young people of the caribbean look take your education and training seriously because if you take it seriously you go and get that certificate that certificate get yourself certified and on the basis of that certification you can get your caricom skill national certificate and once you get that you can go into any of 14 of the 15 caricom countries because the only one that isn't part of the this arrangement is the Bahamas but any of the others you can go in there present your caricom skill certificate get the right to work to reside and work indefinitely without the need for any work permit without the need for permission from anyone in in that country and you could get this right in several caricom countries in other words the this caricom region now becomes your oyster this becomes your space to search out your destiny to search out your life advantages to find yourself to advance but it begins with you taking your education seriously it begins with you getting that certification so i think it's something it's a program that we can use right across the region to lift educational and training levels and lift the cultural and educational standard of all people and and give real benefits real tangible benefits especially to our young people and gentlemen i can test to to to this from a real world experience um because my group has over the last five years had um employees technical employees um from dominica and from Jamaica through this program where the the the need for work permits is is voided because they have i'm certified with the the skills the certificates and they were able to come down and provide an opportunity for us a solution for us and an opportunity for them i should see unemployment so it can work yes as we as we wind down the discussion um maybe um you can expand on that a bit more mr it's the coordinate terms of the practical side of this um free movement and how it is likely to to benefit the um the skill sets that companies can draw on as they seek to expand and make um and and and widen their own business operations but as i said earlier that has to obviously work in tandem with the um the governments um pushing and promoting a complete free movement of persons because it has to be able to to be at all levels i think that the the last drive was to bring it um to the level of um um agricultural workers agricultural workers and security guards yeah and i still think they are still 12 categories so far the 12 categories um three of them we're still grappling with a green on the definition but they're 12 approved no um categories thus far but what happens now is that when you bring the private sector to the table all right um and they make a commitment because they literally made a verbal commitment um to to endorse and to utilize this opportunity it is now for um and that is what we do well it in terms of trying to be efficient and effective to sit down and identify okay where the opportunities that this concrete can can can be derived how do we structure the opportunities um in terms of creating a original footprint or a database of of of demand versus supply of of capacity and and jobs and how we put it together these are the things that the the private sector will take a stab at to make sure that it maximizes as long as it knows that because what what a company doesn't want his red tip and confusion you know what you want to know that you can pick up the phone and if you need as i said the gentleman is looking for 12 or 15 engineers and you can you can you can arrange that in a matter of a week or two and have your employees as long as they're willing to move um and you're creating them uh equally um satisfactory opportunity in your in your area that they can pick up and go as long as that is satisfied by you what the operator wants to know the private sector person wants to know is that the red tip is not going to outweigh the benefits and therefore as long as the the red tip is removed we will work as um as an entity to try and make sure that we can manage and meet um the opportunities to the capacity across the region so essentially saying and in summarizing the efforts made today and in the past um that you're seeking to have the the private sector as a grouping speaking with the run boys um um engaging directly um one more with um with the the heads of government of caracan and seeking to um to to find a mechanism to work together absolutely this this opportunity afforded us puts us at the table um so the direct discussion and furthermore if we if we create our headquarters in Barbados it puts us at the head table also of yes so there is an opportunity for the unit that's right yes so it it puts us um in close proximity with them so it now gives us the capacity to directly start to interact because right now whatever we do is what um is drilled down or pushed down coming out of out of caracan now we are part of of the process and our feedback hopefully will be um will be much more um required and requested as things are being developed and we will have input into how things are implemented because you know I would like to think that that that one of the things that the private sector does well is efficient um execution and that's what makes um that's what makes those that are successful successful and therefore if we can if the caracan community can can leverage that capacity to the benefit of both parties then it's a win-win situation what do you see improving I was very good for it I am so happy that we've we've embraced the the private sector in in the machinery because I've been to quoted meetings and quoted has made decisions in economic development take decisions without the private sector there and those decisions impact on you on the work of the private sector in fact we've had litigation as a result of some of those decisions but so now you have the private sector working together with the with the we've quoted since the start of the process they were at the table one other thing um I think um Charles mentioned it we have been trying to get to get the labor information system in place for a long time I don't know David if you have any recent update on that but I don't believe we have completed that exercise everything that comes up there's always an issue somewhere but that label that label um information system would help the private sector in terms of what jobs are available where the human resource is and we can you know dovetail better so I'm so happy you know because even um in my work we've had several workshops where on the edf 10 fdf 11 fdf we're not 11 yet where we we present to the private sector what we think would be goodies for them and at the end of the day they come and tell you what it is you know you know you know sometimes you yourself view big statements um based on the information you have and then after you see the business sector and you you try to dog them because you have not delivered I mean as you know as a group I think I think what we are doing what we are seeing here what is manifest in here with this private sector um regional private sector body now being brought on board as an associate institution of carry com is that we are perfecting our structure our planning structures you see I think some of the frustration we have had in in carry com over the years is that our structure for planning was not sufficiently well developed now you can't have a properly developed structure for planning if you only have government and public servants at the table now that we have we have brought you know bring in private sector to that planning table we must remember as well that the we are also bringing labor to that planning table because the heads of government agreed to also make the regional labor organization an associate institution so the caribbean congress of labor just as the private sector organization will now be sitting at the planning table the representatives of the labor movement will also be sitting at that planning table so I think we are we are on our way to correcting one of the major deficiencies in the carry com architecture and that is we are now firming up this planning mechanism so no longer should we have the kind of situation where brother phoenix is speaking about where you know the the governments and the public servants go ahead and do the planning and then the private sector says but wait um you know something is missing from this now they will be at the table to make their direct input into the planning process absolutely and so what what say five years down the road difference do you see this change of approach making in the way that the region does business how do you see it benefiting there well um certainly it gives the private sector insight as to the environment that they work in because as I said before sometimes things are handed down to you unexpected and be launched and and undesirable now that should cease because we will be as you see the private sector will be at the table and allowed to now plan and have a greater insight into terms of where the region is going um and how they then can participate and take um they um play their role in taking it in that direction and at the same time benefiting um to develop and strengthen um you know the private sector private sector organizations at the region um there is also opportunities we spoke briefly because um Prime Minister Motley wanted to talk I look back at my notes um investment projects initiative IPI that um she was very clear on and it it goes back to your your earlier comment that you know our old institutions have been so successful um IUE and and Cardi and so on what what have we done of late here is now once again an opportunity for us to look maybe in a different format that's not always thinking the same way but how can we look at it differently um you know we talked about area potential sector areas that the private sector kind of work with the government on transportation renewable energy tourism agriculture and agro processing information um technology information financing and resilience bonds so already we have identified three of them three or four of them at any rate expanded them so things that we feel that we can bring capacity to um potentially and this is all potential but and it has to go forward with discussion but maybe those are areas now in the new paradigm that we can start looking at at participating and creating much more resilient um entities that are going to mirror that of IUE etc and when the private sector does that that's a new frontier because those are things that we need you know we need to we know ourselves off of fossil fuels we need to put renewable energy infrastructure in place all across the region we know that we have we have needed for a long time a system of maritime transportation so that we can move goods and people up and down our our territories efficiently and cheaply we know that we need our own CNN of the of the Caribbean community to share news and information on a 24 hour basis so those uh that's like the new frontier of development but things that we have needed for a long time and the new thinking is that maybe if we now have the private sector and labor at the table to plan them and to also be involved in their implementation because if you're part of the planning it makes it easier now for you to be involved in the implementation but as we put those new frontier um entities in place that is also going to open up new life opportunities for our people you know it is going to give them a more diversified and powerful um social environment in which to express express themselves and this is why I come back ultimately the the the rationale the fundamental rationale for Caribbean integration is to provide avenues for social transformation and social mobility and upliftment is not just about narrow it is about changing human lives it is about giving our people access to opportunities and possibilities that they would otherwise not have if they were simply restricted to their little separate island um territory and society and I just want to point out as well that they are very clear working examples of of private public partnership um collaborations that have worked very successfully um you know um two that I that that I am aware of for example the the the bullet train system that operates in Japan is a private public um partnerships and this now has revolutionized transportation across Japan um it is very efficiently run but um it's done so um to the standards and expectations of the public um demands but um it also allows a private party to be able to benefit financially from providing that that facility and I think there's another one in um Hong Kong I think one of the um um I think there's a bridge on the tunnel that that both go across from Kowloon to um to the mainland and one of them is a private is a private operation so there are opportunities where you can provide public good um using the private initiative and be successful and provide an economic benefit to all and those are those are far-reaching examples so let's let's let's create our own within the region with and especially as as um as we know that every day we wake up technology is changing and advancing and taking taking us in new directions so there's so much more opportunity um that can be um can be um grabbed today if we um put our collective heads together gentlemen this was a very rich discussion we'll wrap in a moment but final words let me begin with you mr Grego. Well I basically want to remind people that Kari Festival will be held in Trinidad and Tobago next month and that's another vehicle by which we unify the um the region and we showcase our talent our businesses as well so I'm putting a plug for for the um for KariCon in terms of advertising Kari Festival which is to be held in Trinidad next month. Yes, yes certainly um it does sound like you'll be there um the specific dates the 16th to the 25th of august and I I know that uh uh Seleucia would be among the countries there that signal has come already so I'm sure there's a lot for the audience to look forward to in terms of the cultural display but so too would be the um looking forward to all KariCon member states being there and the participating judging from the proprietary work there's quite a lot to look forward to it's it's quite a range of um cultural expressions from the culinary to the literary to the performing arts there should be something in there for for everyone um Mr Charles final words okay so I will um do two things I will I will um give a more direct answer to your first question which I probably screwed it around which is whether or not I got any sense of um of positive feedback from from the KariCon heads and I would say what what we did get was that there was no obvious dissent whatsoever we know that this is actually a request from from the KariCon community so we'd like to think that it would happen and everything we've gotten so far has been positive but um like ambassador next to me I'll put a plug and say um I'm hoping that the um KariCon heads will will proceed to endorse us as quickly as possible we've given a timeline and said that we're prepared um to come complete all of our negotiations over the next six weeks and to be have a functional functioning um entity um by the end of this of this next quarter so um the sooner that we can get all of the necessary green lights I think they are one of the things that have to happen on our end first which we'll put in place but the sooner that we can get the green light the sooner that we can make sure that we have completed the exercise and handed to the KariCon community a KariCon private sector organization that is here at the table to work with KariCon in making sure that we maximize the potential of our CSME initiative. Yes excellent and the final word ambassador.com. You know we we live in a world in which many regional integration efforts have come and have gone in fact even as we speak the the mighty European Union is grappling with Brexit. Well you know the precursor to KariCon Carifter was started in 1968 so our integration exercise we could say we are celebrating 51 years this year 51 years is a long time and we don't have any Brexit to the credit of KariCon it has its its its existence has never been really threatened in any existential manner no one has broken away and it is very much intact after 51 years. I know that there are some citizens of the Caribbean who have some skepticism because I would say over the past decade or so KariCon has had has always had its ups and downs and I would say between say 2008 to 2018 was not one of our best periods but I would say to all of those skeptics look do not judge KariCon just on that recent decade because we can sense a new a new optimism a new hope a new dynamism coursing through KariCon certainly over this over this past year is as if you know this is almost a fresh taken of guard and some of some of the the evidence of that is this initiatives like bring in the private sector on board bring in the labor movement on board expanding the categories of of the skilled national program and so forth so I would say to all Caribbean citizens take a fresh look at at KariCon take a fresh look at of what is happening now these very exciting and positive recent developments and get on board because we now have our committee of KariCon ambassadors we have right across the region I'm from Barbados brother Felix Gregoire from Dominica and we have counterparts in so many other member states we are functioning as a committee and as a committee of ambassadors we are committed to making this KariCon project work we are committed to being the link between what happens at the secretariat and our national populations making sure our people are informed and that that we have an inclusive process going forward so something is happening and we need we need the interest and support of our people right and I'd like to continue that line and encourage you for viewing to engage your respective ambassadors to find out what's happening as so correctly said they are the link between the national and the and the regional they are aware of what the initiatives are and especially new measures new directions that as we were discussing today the embracing of the private sector at the table and also the regional level movement so that they're part of both the planning and the implementation so it's for you to keep abreast of what's happening so that you know where the benefits where the potential benefits lie the one one of the areas we didn't touch on but relate to free movement has been the move to ensure that contingent rights are enjoyed by the spouses children of the people who move because it it it it is a bugbear for some people who move and that is so that you enjoy the rights of of the person with whom you're moving with in a in a practical terms your children can go to the schools your spouse can can work and that's an important part of of free movement in terms of the new areas that the heads want to add to the categories of free movement we mentioned agricultural workers that's that's a one that is being looked at security officers and the people who deal with with hairs the barbers and the here and the beauticians beauticians and so on so that once the the the finishing touches have been done with the measures to support those areas then those categories will move along with the others like the nurses and teachers who have long been been part of the of the process so it there's a lot to learn and as I said we we had the secretary of car comes secretary it would be always willing you we do get quite a lot of questions about free movement that's the area of concern but as I said we have the committee of ambassadors with ambassadors right in irrespective territories who would be able to inform you and we look forward to being able to work along as well once the eyes dotted on the teeth of course with the regional private sector body and with the regional labor movement as I said at the start we organized this panel discussion to be part of the side events around the 40th meeting of curriculum heads of government now taking place in St Lucia and we hope that you you've found it informative we want to invite you to join our stream again tomorrow at about five p.m. when we'll have the closing press conference and you know what the various outcomes were what decisions and agreements that were made based on the agenda for this meeting so to join us again then I want to thank the production team from the government information service and uetv for supporting this this this discussion and I want to thank the members of the panel for taking the time off from the very busy schedule associated with the meeting of this nature to share with you this afternoon my name is Kendall Morgan communication said at the carry come secretary and I want to give you the one you say thanks to you for joining us for this discussion and have a pleasant rest of the day