 Relationships are everything, a relationship with God, a relationship with family and others, and you are in a really important relationship with us. We value you and pray for you and think about you all the time here on Hope Today. I'm Amy Schaefer and I'm here with Tom. Tom, what is our topic of discussion today? Well, it's gonna be about relationships. I'm glad you mentioned that. Well, we're gonna have a conversation with David Hoffman. David overcame a really difficult childhood to become the CEO of his own company. And along the way, he realized that relationships were more important than rules or transactions. That's a big thing in business, right? But he's gonna give us some principles to help us lead others with grace and to love generously. You're not gonna wanna miss it. Incredible story, his story, but also the principles that he's drawn from that. My husband heard a statement and we always said it, raising our kids rules without relationship, breed rebellion. And so it's so important just to take time to build real relationships, not like these kind of relationships with people you'll never sit down, never look eye to eye with, never have a conversation with that you develop those real relationships. That's what matters in life. I mean, take rules without relationship, breed rebellion. I finally understand why I've been rebellious. You are not rebellious, that is like the last thing. You're like the perfect church guy. Well, tell me about, we wanna continue in praying for Israel and I know you have some updates there. Yeah, you know, I think that we have to be careful because we see this war happening in Israel right now and Palestine and Gaza and we think that it's new. And this is not a new war. This is something that has been happening since God made a covenant with Abraham for his people, the Jewish people and the land. God literally made a covenant with the land of Israel. So there will always be a fight over Israel and the Jewish nation. And you know, we gotta be careful with the narrative that we're praying about and what we're seeing in the news because it lacks, it's ignorant. It lacks biblical context. It lacks the spiritual context and Israel, like it's not like if you're pro for Israel, you're against Palestine. I mean, the Palestinian people are beautiful and precious and loved by God. The enemy is Hamas. So we need Hamas to be gone with, be wiped out because Hamas is actually overpowering and ruling over the Palestinian people. There was a video that I just saw where the Palestinian, the Hamas had taken a young girl who everyone thought was Jewish and they put her in the center of the city and they shot her in the head and killed her. And they said, why did you kill this Palestinian young woman, Hamas, killing their own people because she had a new testament in her hand? This is a spiritual battle. And when you actually look at the land of Gaza, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank where Palestine's reside, because the narrative is that Israel's so big, bad and strong and they're gonna overpower the whole Middle East when actually the truth is when you look at where Israel is in this little sliver of blue surrounded by Arab and Muslim nations, we gotta pray for Israel. It's where our savior came from. Absolutely. In fact, I was just reading on Isaiah 40, 1441, very similar things happened then, so similar to what happened just recently. It's unbelievable. Could you just say this in prayer? And there always will be because Israel's forever. So Father, we just pray right now. And I want all of you just agree with me by faith for this beautiful land of Israel and they don't do everything right. And they're not making all godly decisions. But Father, we are praying for this land of Israel where our savior came from. I mean, he changed our life forever. Our Bible, our word came from this area. And God, we just pray right now for the peace of Israel. We speak peace in Jesus' name and protection in Jesus' name. Father, I thank you that you are the great defender of Israel. Give them a wise strategy so that innocent people don't die. Father, I thank you for the innocent Palestinians, for the innocent Muslims, for the innocent Arab nations that God, you protect them. And Father, we ask that Hamas is done with and wiped out and canceled in Jesus' name. So Father, give them a great supernatural wise strategy and we pray for the remnant in the land, the remnant of believers that are in Palestine, they're in Israel, they're in Egypt, they're in Iran and Iraq, there is an Israel of God, there's an Egypt of God, there's a remnant in the land. And Father, we just pray that right now they'll be stronger in faith than they ever have been before. And we just thank you Lord in all of this we're gonna see the hand of God move in the name of Jesus, amen. Thanks. You know, I'm super passionate about that because my husband and son just got back from Israel for two weeks all up in close to where we're seeing on the news. Pretty soon, right before all this started happening. Yeah, and God is moving and revival is happening and lives are changing and Jesus is revealing himself to the Muslim nations. So there's a lot of hope there and there's a lot to keep in prayer. Absolutely and we would encourage you to stay in prayer, pray for the situation and for Israel. Well, we were talking about relationships and the value of relationships, I'm sure you realize this, it's very significant. God's desire is for us to not only have a personal relationship with him, we all know about that, right? But personal relationships with others as well. And our next guest, David Hoffman, he knows the importance of authentic, I love that word, authentic relationships and what it means to put others first. He outlines that in his new book, Relationships Over Rules, Seven Principles to Lead Gracefully and Love Generously. David, welcome to Hope Today. Thank you so much for having me, guys. Well, David, tell me about that title, Relationship Over Rules, what relationships, what rules are you talking about? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I don't speed on the highway, I value rules that can protect us. I'm talking about the rules of the world. I'm talking about when someone is told that their past where they're abused is who they are and their past does not define their purpose, it does not dictate the potential. I'm talking about the rules that say that if you didn't know Jesus last Tuesday, you can't know him right this second. You know, the rules that say that you're not loved, the rules that say that you can't reach your true potential. Everyone knows, most people know Philippians 4-13, I can do all things through Christ, He strengthens me. But we don't always remember Philippians 4-11 and 12 that speaks on contentment being godliness. Sometimes good is enough. The rules say that you put the transaction first. The rules say that when the transaction ends, you move on to the next. But I wanna encourage people to focus on the relationships in their life, starting with God in the center. I wanna encourage them that when the transaction ends, that's when the relationship begins. And I wanna encourage them to look back at who God has put in their life and to stop looking forward to the home across street, to someone else's bride, to someone else's kids, to someone else's job, and just to focus on all the people that He has put in our lives and all the gifts that He has already given us. Yeah, you know, we can do that so easily, can't we? Focus on the comparison with others and think like, why do they have it so good? And we haven't quite got there. But you know, it's not something God wants, but tell me about your life. You know, you spent a lot of the book, I think like probably the first half of the book is your story. Tell us about your story and what God brought you through. Yeah, definitely. And you know, we started with my story, not because it's about me, Tom and Amy, but because everyone has a story. You know, we have Jeremiah 2911 up in our conference room wall to encourage people that He has a plan for each and every one of us and for us to prosper and not be harmed. My mom had mobile sclerosis. And in 1979, when she was pregnant with me, there was not as many options as there are today. And so she was warned of what would happen if she had me. She moved forward and right after I was born guys, she got paralyzed from the waist down. And so when I was two years old, my father took me out of the house and then a few years later, he remarried. And so my entire childhood, I always spent about three or four hours, three or four times a year with my mom when I would see her in Staten Island. And then I spent a lot of my time in my room feeling neglected, a lack of love. I'd go back and forth guys between agreeing to disagree with God to out and out hating Him to just not believing He existed. And that went on for decades and decades. There's just a lot of neglect. You know, I went through a lot but everyone has gone through strife in their life. I wanna encourage people that adversity that they faced 50 years ago or last night. It is actually providing them with a perspective that gives them a gift of gratitude. For me guys, I started working at eight years old to provide some money for food and drink because I was hungry and thirsty at times. And so that perspective that I didn't need a lot even before I knew that God was working through me, it has given me a gratitude. When I was 24, I was on the phone with my mom and she was telling me how proud she was of some worldly success that I had reached in my life. And I told her I was gonna visit her in New York. I was in DC. Well, three weeks later I got a call and she passed away. And we've all lost loved ones guys, but she was 52. I thought I had all the time in the world. I was very self-righteous. After decades of neglect and loss and feeling alone and fighting for, I felt like almost everything guys. I thought I had all the time in the world. I was very selfish and self-righteous. And so I didn't visit my mom. So my one regret was telling my mom that I was gonna go see her. Thinking I had 40 more years. And I'll never know until I get to heaven if she knew how sick she was and didn't want me to worry or if she didn't know. But I now know my purpose. I did not that day. Well, tell us about how you met the Lord. I mean, you grew up really without the Lord and you even alluded to, pretty much not happy with God if he did exist. But tell me how that changed and how you began to follow the Lord. Yeah, absolutely. In 2004 when my mom passed away, I was becoming a sports agent. I was becoming an expert on the jock tax. So athletes were taxing my travel and I was an economist. And long story short, I was getting ready to speak at this big sports entertainment law conference. And for a young man who was never good enough to play sports at a high level, never really got to play a lot of sports because I spent a lot of time in my bedroom. This was my dream. And I was getting ready to leave town to speak at the sports entertainment law conference, guys. And I was going through my bills. I wanted to pay them in advance. And I came across an MS walk reminder card. And it's for the same time and day as the talk. And so I picked the walk over the talk, MS meaning for multiple sclerosis to honor my mom's memory. And so needless to say, that kind of put me out a different direction. And I was dating a young lady, guys. And she broke up with me after my mom passed because I had proposed, but I was heartbroken. I chased her to Charlotte. And I chased her to Charlotte. We had a short time together. We actually got married for a year. And then when the economy crashed, we went separate ways. And so January 2009, I lost my mom. I lost my wife. My business had gone away. January 2009, people are not buying homes in real estate in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, or anywhere else for that matter. And a dear friend said, Dave, come to church with me. And I walked into the church, guys, on a Sunday afternoon. And I felt like the pastor was talking to me. David, will you raise Jewish? David, did you feel like a lack of love? Did you feel alone, neglected? David, did you lose your mom, your spouse, your wife? Did you lose all hope? Do you feel like you have no reason to go on? Are you in real estate? Do you live in Charlotte with your mom? I mean, I really felt like I was just talking to me and there was thousands of people in the room. And I went home and I cried, guys. And I heard God audibly say, you've tried your way for almost 30 years. Give it to me. Two days later, I went to lunch with a dear friend. And he pulled out a Bible, which I had never seen. I had a bar mitzvah at 13. I learned the Torah. I never read through the Old Testament, let alone the new. And he said, David, you've tried your way for 30 years. Give it to God. And I thought, oh, wow, I started crying. You know, my pastor reminds me that sometimes it takes more faith to not believe. But my friends are the same thing that God said to me a day and a half earlier. So I gave my life to Jesus that second, guys. And the next day, I met my wife. Wow, what a testimony and a story. You know, whether you're raised Jewish in Judaism or Catholic and Catholicism or Assembly of God and Assembly of Godism, there are rules and there are works. There are things that you do. And what did you do to break from going from rules over to grace and relationship? You had a great question, Amy. You know, in the marketplace, the rules say that when the transaction ends, you've been paid. They've been served. You move on to the next transaction. You move on to the next client. You look out for a new stranger that could become a customer or a client. I just go back into whoever has already been placed in my life, Amy. And so I spent a lot of time with people that may never, to Tom's point, buy or sell a home that may never be able to give to me. But, you know, and I get asked a lot, like, how'd you come from, you know, at times I drank toilet water because I was really thirsty and the bathwater made too much noise, that the dog food wasn't being counted. So it was an easy way to eat. That's why when I would get some money, I'd go to the convenience store. But I didn't realize it. It was just a way to live. And so for me, that perspective has given me gratitude and all the little things. And so I spent a lot of time, guys, with people that, at least today or tomorrow, the world says can't give to me. You know, speaking in Baltimore, Maryland, maybe a decade ago, Amy had a real estate conference. And after all was done, we did a Q&A. And a gentleman asked me a great question. He said, you know, what happens if all you do is help a lot of people? You just help a lot of people. But no one ever reciprocates. No one ever can use you in your business, in your marketplace. And it was an easy answer, guys, because I didn't come from a lot. And I knew, you know, my mom sacrificed her life and so did Jesus. So I had two that sacrificed her life for me. And so I just answered with, look, if when I get to heaven, then all I did, using air quotes, all I did was help a lot of people, then I want to be, I hope that I'll be told, well done, good, faithful servant. And my mom will be out of her wheelchair, dancing, leaping with joy, that her life was not for naught. And she's proud of her boy. And I jump in the arms of my mom and Jesus. He came up after the talk, guys, crying. And he said, I needed that. My marriage has been suffering. My kids haven't seen me in weeks. I've been chasing, I've been chasing, I've been chasing. I keep chasing for more and more. The world says just chase for more and more. One day, one day I could focus on my marriage. One day I could focus on the word. One day I could focus on my kid, but not today I have to focus on the world. But thank you for giving me permission. I'm like, look, I didn't give you permission. I just wanted to affirm what you already know, that God is always with you. And that's all you need. Oh, that's powerful. And your story is very powerful. In fact, you have seven principles in the book. I want to focus on one first here. It's principle number four. Your past doesn't have to dictate your potential. Because so often I think we're trapped by it. We feel trapped by our past. We're not really trapped. We might be, but there is freedom. Can you just speak to that? Yeah, absolutely. We don't want to linger looking backwards, but we do need to recognize there may be trauma and there may be scars that need to be dealt with. With that being said, I've had trauma. I think most people have, if you've gone through anything that has been difficult, but that's not who you are. God is the author of all that is doing nothing evil. And so I just want to encourage people that God has made each and every one of you perfectly made in his image. And the world is the one that gives you the junk. Other people abusing you is referring them on their heart, not yours. Other people neglecting you is on them, not you. So I just want to encourage people to use those lessons to know where not to go. Tough relationships are okay, but toxic is not. And so for me guys, it was easy. Any neglect, any lack of love that I felt as a child made it easy for me guys to just pivot to, I never want my wife, my kids, my friends, colleagues, neighbors, I never want someone else to feel the way that I felt. Well, absolutely. And I think that's such a great principle. We have another one that I think is so much that's part of your life is find a way to say yes. Say yes to what? What are you talking about? Find a way to say yes. Yeah, great question, Tom. First and foremost, I want to remind people not to be a people pleaser, but to be a God pleaser. And so you can't say yes to everyone. It's actually what the devil wants. The devil wants you to be so distracted and discouraged and it's hard to buy saying yes to everyone that you over promise and you get overwhelmed and anxious. First and foremost, if you focus on the people God plays in your life, you're focusing on people that already love you, trust you and respect you. And so when they need something, it's usually coming from a good place. Secondly, if you're focusing on the people God's already placed in your life, you're not saying yes to everyone. You're only saying yes, the right yes to those that God has placed in your life that you already have a relationship with. But I also want to remind the gang that it's not just an unconditional yes, it's the right yes. And so if someone that you care about asks you for help, you might not have time until this afternoon. And so you say, I can't do this morning if I can do this afternoon. If someone says they need money, I don't have $1,000, but I have a hundred. I don't have an hour, but I've got 10 minutes. I was always told no, guys. I was always felt ignored. This world is so lonely. The devil comes to kill, steal, destroy through division and discouragement. And he starts that with loneliness where he puts anxiety in your head so that Jesus is pushed out. And so I just want to encourage people that if they just find a way to say yes, but they only focus on those people God's placed in their life, then you give more than you can take with everyone. People want to be heard. People have ideas, good, bad, or indifferent. People want to be noticed, guys. And they want to be recognized. They're all children of God and they deserve to be heard. David, you're so right. And as we're finishing this interview, will you take time and just pray for those, maybe even pray for those that are going through those kind of hardships and isolation and know-all-the-time moments? And then also pray out one of these principles that's on your heart. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, guys. I really, it's a pleasure, Tom and Amy. Let's pray. God, thank you for this time this morning. And I just ask that one person or a million people, whoever you want to hear this message, that they are enough, that they receive this message and that they just dispel any of the lies from the devil that they are not enough and that where they came from is all that they are. They are so measurably more and you have big plans for life. God, I just want to encourage everyone listening that God has big plans for their life and that they have all that they need and they are special. And they need to not, they need to beware the snare to compare and look at their own wife, their own husband, their own kids, their own friends, their own neighbors and just know that we live in a broken world. It's not full of bliss. What's happening in Israel, this has been going on for a long time and it will most likely continue and we need to pray for them and we need to just be this all light. I just want to encourage everyone listening that as long as we're here for another day or 100 years, that you are enough and God puts people in your life because he has big plans for you with them and that you have gifts, you have spiritual gifts that you can help them with. I also want to encourage you. One of the principles that God put on my heart, thank you Lord, is to meet people without an agenda. You know, each and every one of you were perfectly made and you have a big heart and then the rules of the world say, I know I need to be helping my neighbor but this person over here can bring me money which will help my family. I know I need to reach out to this family member where we have a tough relationship or they need me but I don't have the time. I need to focus on this transaction and these dollars and I just want to encourage you that God has big plans for your life. Romans 828, he's working all things together for the good for those who love him and you love him and so just wherever he sends you guys just go. When things are tough and you're wondering why God's not working, he is guys but maybe God is telling you to go in a different direction and his redirection is for your protection. So I just want to encourage you to just say yes, say yes to anything that God tells you and just leave room in the mornings and the night and throughout your day to hear him, to receive him. He loves you, you're perfectly made and everyone he puts in your life is because he has big plans for you and for them. Ask all these things in Jesus' name, amen. Amen, great encouragement David. Thank you so much. The book again is Relationships Over Rules Seven Principles to Lead Gracefully and Love Generously. David Hoffman, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much guys, it's a pleasure. All right, God bless. I mean, a powerful story, Amy, of coming from a really horrible situation, success in the world but still needed to know Jesus. That's a lot to figure out. You know, the scripture says in Philippians 2-3, don't be selfish, don't try to impress others but be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves. I mean, the goal is that relationships, we develop relationships, we build relationships, we work on relationships because the kingdom of God is all about relationships. There's actually a great scripture in Romans that says, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of rules about food and drink but it is the realm of the Holy Spirit filled with righteousness, peace and joy. It's not about rules, it's not about us, Tom, working our way to heaven that we're good enough, that we feel worthy enough, it's not about us, it's about Jesus, it's about our relationship with Him, it's about what He did on the cross for us. I think that is so key. That scripture you just read, is that from Romans? Romans, yeah, I think 14. Romans 14. You know what, there's Colossians chapter two, talks about it too, about don't let someone be your judge about festivals or what to eat or what to drink, it's about relationship with God. That's the key thing that we've opened the door of our life and we've said, Lord, come in and be that the Savior, guide me, be the Lord, not just the Savior and then we go do whatever we want. He's our Lord, He's our master, He's the one that we follow, He's the one that calls the shots but He does it in a way that He's leading us into everything that we were meant to be. So where are you today on that journey? Some people, I think when Paul said that one plants, another water, another one harvests, God causes the growth, okay? Where are you in your growth journey? God wants to take us to a new place. Amy and myself, we've been following the Lord for a long time. Thankfully, there's great new places to go. There's great new vistas. There's great new opportunities for us to know Him better and to know why He put us in this place and time and you can have that too. You can have that knowledge of why God has you right here right now. Right, yeah, this isn't the time to play games or to question, am I right with God? This is the time to know that you are in right relationship with God and the only reason we are in right relationship with God is because of what Jesus did for us and just a quick encouragement for those that Israel and the Jewish nation is weighing so heavily on your heart. Romans 15 says this about Jesus, talking about relationship. I am convinced that Jesus the Messiah was sent as a servant to the Jewish people to fulfill the promises of God made to our ancestors and to prove God's faithfulness. Jesus came to prove God's faithfulness in your life, in the Jewish people's life, in the Gentiles' life. Aren't you glad that we're grafted into the vine? So today, make a decision and let be in real relationship with Jesus. Have you had a rules upbringing? You know, real hard rules, hard rules in the family maybe, hard rules at work. Hard rules in your religious upbringing? Well, God wants to set you free from that because it's not about rules even with Him. It's about relationship with God. So go after God, reach out for Him. He's right there. He's waiting for you and wants to meet with you today. Have a great one. On tomorrow's Hope Today, discover the value of not being afraid to ask difficult questions about Christianity. Pastor and author Andrew Farley shares why it's okay to ask challenging biblical questions and how some of their answers may be somewhat surprising. Don't miss tomorrow's Hope Today. Cornerstone Television wishes to thank all our faithful viewers whose consistent prayers and financial support have made this program possible.