 Are you good? We'll get started. This is the Development Review Board for Burlington for October 15th. A few kind of housekeeping things. We take up items in the order they are on the agenda. And when we call each project, we ask the applicant to come up to the table. And when you're up there, please use the microphones. Acoustics in this room are terrible. And that's also the record of our hearing is what we record on those microphones. There's a clipboard on the table there. We ask the applicants or anybody else who wants to participate or get more information on projects or have party status to sign in on that clipboard at some point during the meeting. We have no communications. There's no changes to the agenda. Well, I see 110 Riverside is deferred, right? Is anybody here for 110 Riverside? We'll take that up at that point in the hearing. Minutes. We have minutes in our packet from October 1st. Anybody has any comments? And then that brings us to our Consent Agenda. The first item on the Consent Agenda is 336 North Winooski Gorilla Bars. You hear? Okay. This is recommended for consent. Which means that if you're okay with it and with the conditions that are recommended, you're okay with that? Yeah, yes. Okay. Anybody on the board have any reason not have this as content? Is anybody here in the public that wants to speak on 336 North Winooski Avenue? Okay. Can I have a motion on this? Sure. ZP20-00332CU, 336 North Winooski Avenue. I move that we approve the application and adopt staff's findings and recommendations. Is there a second? Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? You're all set. Thank you. The next item also on consent is 34 Henderson Terrace. This is to demolish an existing garage and construct a new garage, extend an additional four feet to the south. Also on consent, are you okay with the conditions recommended by the staff in their review? Excuse me. I actually, I just was reviewing my emails to double check. I didn't, I actually didn't receive a set of conditions. Did somebody want to give- Did you get the staff report, which has the like consent, it says consent approval as per in subject to the following findings? Did you see that? I was sent an email from the town. It's all right. Take your time. It's pretty straightforward. I'm going to assume you're probably okay with it. I apologize. No, I never- That's all you want to take. At the end there, you'll see the recommended conditions of approval. It's at the end on page five, the bottom. And while he's looking, is there going to be on the board, have any issues with treating this as consent? Is anybody in the public here for 34 Henderson Terrace? Yeah, that's fine. Okay, good. Usually is. Can I have a motion on this project? On 20-0254CA-CU34 Henderson Terrace, I move that we approve and adopt staff findings. Oh, and recommendations. All in favor? Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Okay, our next item is also on the consent agenda. You're not recused on this one. Okay, this is the University of Vermont, installing two salt sheds, brine, hands. Tanks. Tanks. I think that is yes, tanks. This is all behind Centennial Field. This is on the consent agenda. I have some questions. I also typically make a disclosure for UVM that our law firm on occasion does work for UVM. We have not been involved in this project or on any of your permitting projects, but I typically make that disclosure and don't think it precludes me from ruling objectively on this decision and this question, but I do have some questions. Is that okay? So in that case, we're going to treat this as a public hearing just so we can get those questions on the record. So I'll ask that anybody who's going to speak on this to raise your right hand. And do you swear to tell the truth and hold truth under pain and penalty of perjury? So if you both could introduce yourselves. Sure. And you have to pull the microphone close. Gail Henderson King. I'm here on behalf of the University of Vermont for the project. Okay. My name is Sal Cirelli. I'm the director of physical plant at the University of Vermont. Okay. Since Jeff had the questions, maybe we'll just go right into the questions. Great. Thanks. I think one of the recommended conditions is that you all get your erosion and prevention and sediment control plan approved by the stormwater engineering program. Has that been approved yet? I checked just before I came up in the approval date on their chapter 26 was issued October 2nd. Okay. That's helpful. I don't know if you have the applicant or the staff findings in front of you. There's a photo. It's got kind of a red circle on it. I just wanted to ask, there's a stormwater basin behind where the project is proposed. Is that UVM stormwater basin or is that someone else's? That is UVM stormwater basins existing. Okay. And Derek can answer any questions on that. He's involved with stormwater permitting for the projects. Okay. I was just, when I looked at the aerial photos of this area currently, there's some pretty significant erosion occurring on that project site headed down towards that stormwater pond. It doesn't look like it's within the area of this project. Your erosion control stops sort of midway through your site there, but there's some pretty significant erosion happening kind of at the upper end of that access road. And it looks like it's coming out of the soil storage area adjacent to and where you're planning on putting the salt sheds. Do you have plans to address that as part of this project? I believe so. Derek Reed with Krebs and Lansing. There is a road that goes down. There's snow storage that when the photos are usually taken, I think you're seeing snow storage in that area. It's very heavily vegetated through there. There's a gravel road. There's stone around the Green Mountain Belco substation. Sorry. I think if you went out there right now, you would not see an erosion issue. There is dirt storage out there, but you will not see an erosion issue. It looked like, and these may be outdated, but it looked like the back end of what you all have labeled as a soil storage area, which I think you're replacing part of that with the salt storage. The back corner of that and what looks like stormwater coming off of that driveway looks like it's created a pretty deep rill down towards the stormwater pond. I'm not sure that that is necessarily consistent with how you would want stormwater going into your stormwater pond. It may be worth some follow-up just to confirm either that you are planning on addressing that as part of this application or that it has already been addressed, but it looked concerning. No, I think we will confirm, but I walk out there somewhat regularly to make sure that the pond is operating properly, and I haven't seen an erosion issue recently. Okay, so, thank you. Any other questions for the board on this application? I don't know if there's anything since this was consent, I don't imagine there's anything you want to add. Dr. Lang, do you want to comment on this? Okay, somebody from the public would like to comment, so here come up and then we'll... Good evening. My name is Dr. Martha Reeves Lang, and I live at 138 Colchester Avenue. I have a lot of questions about this permit. I hope that all of you went over to that site before tonight. It's a disaster. There's a transfer station, i.e., the old word for it is dump. That's not a permitted use in RC or institutional zone. There's a compacting, a composting area in either the RC or the IC zone. Those are not permitted uses. And I'm concerned that assault shed at the brow of a hill could contaminate vegetation that is considered highly... It should be respected. I'm also concerned that if you look at these permits, one is 15 years it hasn't been closed out, and that has to do with stormwater. One is 12 years and it hasn't been closed out, and that's the gravel parking lot attached to the stormwater. And for nine years, they haven't demolished three buildings. There's no time like the present. Don't issue the permit for them to do anything until they tend to that, and that is in the city codes. That's a condition of the approval right now that they have to close those out before... I don't think that they should even be issued the permit. There's a level that they can be held to, and that is section 2.7.8. The administrative officer can also authorize to deny all zoning permits for any property with an expired zoning permit. You can deny this permit. Don't make it a condition for Lord's sakes. Look, you made it... They closed out a permit in 13, and they got a permit in 13, but they didn't close it. I'm just here to ask questions. You are the people who can make the decision. The other thing that I'd like information on, I'm only asking questions. Who people make the decisions? Zoning permit NN. What was that permit? That's the last one on sheet 1. What was that permit? And zoning permit in 87. We're talking about stormwater and raising retention dams. I'm just asking questions. I'm curious about... And the other thing that I'm curious about, and I'm only at... Is there a time limit? Because I just want to make a few points. Under what condition was the salt shed approved? I'm going through the uses. You have the use table here. Salt shed should be down in the enterprise zone, and they don't even have a permit for the dump or the composting section. So if you go over there, it's a disaster. There used to be a beautiful natural area. Okay. So the next thing I want to bring out, and I've just went through the permit, is the zoning map on page 2 for the city's comments. I'm having a hard time determining what is institutional and what was recreational. So according to the city's zoning codes, mostly zones are divided by streets, so you can know where a zone is. But if you don't have that nice situation, under section 4.1.4C, if further uncertainty, and I, as far as I'm concerned, page 2 is uncertain, the administrative officer shall make a determination as to the location based on a graphic scale. I am asking very respectfully that there be a graphic scale for recreation institutional. I just want to know what they're doing, and right here on this page 2, you can see the dump. You can see all the composting, and I think that that's in the recreational area, but I'm not sure. I'd like a grid. If it's possible, you don't have to do it, it's up to you, but it's a disaster back there. I have just a few more comments. Oh, and my other comment is on page 4 of the city's comments, where they've circled that, and you mentioned that, Jeff, where they circled that does not match what the University of Vermont has submitted on page 2 for site location map. So I think there has to be some clarification where this is, what they're putting there, and I mean, you can let it go through if you want, but I would question, and we're at the Brauville Hill, where they have 16 years they haven't completed their stormwater permit, the stormwater system down there, and you have... There's one thing that I don't understand, and maybe you could... The buffer zone for this fragile area, which is a stream, is 400 feet, and there's a buffer zone recreational conservation area of 100 feet. That's a football field and a half, and we have this... There's a stream down there, and it flows into another area. But anyway, that's just my comment. I think that they really should be held to a hired standard. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I want to come back up and maybe we can follow up on a few of those items. Mary, was there any issue with the... These are storm... These are salt sheds that are replacing existing salt sheds, and so it's existing use right now. Any issues with that in the institutional? The... Equipment and facilities that they're proposing to replace are existing. They may be changing the dimensions of them, but they are accessory to the overall institutional use, relative to the overlays that Dr. Lang referred to. That is specifically why I captured screenshots of these with... On our ARC map so that you can see the extent of the sensitive areas, including different zoning districts and overlay districts for littoral zones or wetlands or whatever the impact is in this particular parcel. It's certainly complicated because the parcel falls within three zoning districts and then has overlays on top of them, and that's the very reason that I provided these images. Thank you. So one of the questions that they raised, and this is somewhat standard in approvals is to close out other permits. What's a little unusual is the extent of permits not closed out, and one would expect the university to maybe build a bit more on top of it. Maybe you can address that as to what the status of those permits are at this point. I believe the university is in the midst of trying to close out all those permits. However, as any large institution and in the city, there's numerous permits and oftentimes they don't get closed out. And since the new rules have gone in several years ago, I know each of the institutions have been busy trying to close out all those permits, but it's a large list. I don't think those new rules are so new at this point. Pardon? The new rules are not so new at this point. No, they're not. I understand that. And as I'm aware, they're taking care of the recent ones, but going back, it's just a long process when you've got lots of projects going on. Not an excuse, but they are in the midst of taking care of those. And obviously, before they can do anything with this, they will take care of those past permits. So the condition of approval that was recommended is to close out all violations and zoning permits issued after July 13, 1989, prior to issuance of a CO for this project. You know, what you're saying, you're not really clear that they can do that. They've been trying for years and they can't close them out. I believe they're in the midst of closing these out right now. I don't have specifics on that. I can't really address specifically these ones, but I believe that they're in the works. Is there anybody from your team that can address those issues? Hi, I'm Lisa Kingsbury. I'm with Planned Design and Construction at UVM, and everything that Gail said is accurate, and that, yes, we are aware that we have a long list of permits, mostly older ones that haven't been closed out, and we've been working our way through that list over the past actually a couple of years, and we are accepting of the condition that we have these closed out before we can get a CO for this project. So we would make that happen. So what the condition of approval is saying, you're not going to be using these salt sheds until they're closed out. Yes, we understand that. And you're understanding that. Yes, we understand that. Any other questions from the board on this? Is there anything else the applicant wants to add at this point? Leave at this point. We're all set. Okay, we'll take this up on the deliberation. So we'll close the public hearing at this point. Thank you. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is 110 Riverside Avenue. We need a motion on this, Scott, to defer it until November 19th. Yeah, as a public hearing item, it needs to be deferred to a date and time certain. I asked earlier, but is anybody here for 110 Riverside? Can I have a motion on this to defer it? Sorry, do we have a date certain until November 19th? So I would move that we defer this item to the November 19th meeting. Second discussion. All in favor? Opposed. The next item is 702 Lake Street. It's the applicant here. This is renewal of snow storage on Urban Reserve Parcel. And I'm recused from this matter. Jeff is recused. So I'll ask anybody who's intending to speak on this project to, we're going to swear you in. So if you would raise your right hand. And do you swear to tell the whole truth on the pain and penalty of perjury? I do. I do. Maybe you, this is, I don't think there were any real major questions on this, but maybe you can go through, introduce yourselves and give a little overview. Sure. Happy to. Chaven Spencer, director of Public Works. And I have with me reached Tebow from our street maintenance division. And in front of you is a request for a two-year permit for snow storage on Lake Street. And this convenient location provides us the post operation to enable us to deliver the best service to the stakeholders of the city. And at the same time as you'll note in there that storm waters contained, melt waters contained, and we feel it's an appropriate location for this activity. And that's been used in that spot for quite a few years at this point, right? Yes. I've been there for 10 years and we've used that spot ever since then. Is this, Scott, is this a one-year or two-year? This has been a two-year. It's proposed for two. Two. Okay. Because that was the recommendation from the conservation board, right? Yeah. Like I said, the only comment that we had in here was over the years is keeping the trucks quiet when they're emptying there. And I think that's one thing we try to tell our guys, you know, easy on the tailgate slamming because there's people that live on top of the hill there. And, you know, after the snow melts, we always go around and pick up debris. You know, that's nice or after a while. And we are happy to work with the Church Street Marketplace as the proposed condition state about their operation of the facility as well, which is a shared location. Yeah. Good. Any other questions? I don't think everybody in the public was going to speak on this. So we're going to close the public hearing. Thank you. We have, under other business, we have 441 Shelburne Street. And there's no application for this, but I see the applicant is here. And I see your note. So maybe we want to come on up. So this is not really, this is a follow-up to the permit that was issued. Right. The permit was issued with the condition that I noted in the very brief memo. Siding was to be complete by September. It's October. It's not. So second part of that condition says project status update by the applicant. Okay. Do you want to come up? I'm just signing in. Yeah. And maybe you could just introduce yourself. Mitchell Richardson, owner of the project. Okay. And I guess, you know, what the question was it? Yeah. And maybe you want to give a little bit of, a little bit of an overview of what the status of the project is now and keep the microphone real close to you. So the siding should be done in about probably two to three months. We had a couple large setbacks, half the building collapsed, and we had to rebuild one complete section. So roofing, all that had to take place before siding. Yeah. But we do have all trim done. We've got all the concrete done on the inside, all the roof is done. We're, we're doing very well. We haven't stopped with a three man crew since we came here. Granted, I don't have a 10 or 15 man crew, but. And the setback was, I mean, you're in a very public spot. So people are aware of the setbacks. Yeah. And of the lack of progress, but understanding that things are happening now. Site does look better. Does the site does look better. I appreciate that. Thank you. And it does look like you're getting ready for it. Any questions for the applicant on this project? I think I'm sure there's a lot of people in the neighborhood that would be happy to see the siding on too. You're thinking what, what is your view at this point? So we're actually, we have the siding on site. It's sitting right there. We're just held up on electrical and a couple of the doors, which we're supposed to be here about a month ago, but there are two main safety closure doors that they're supposed to be here. I just keep getting told next week. So. Do you have a projection as to when the siding would be on? Siding should start. We've got all the trim completed. So we're just holding off on a couple of doors a week or two. It should start. And then once it starts, I mean, the trims are at its part. At four to six weeks, the whole building will be done. Literally everything is completed waiting for siding. Trims, fascia, soffit, everything. Windows are all in. We're just waiting on the doors, the electrical panel. And that's about it. Scott, there's no action that we should take or can't take on this at this point. Or I mean, it is somewhat in violation of the terms of the of the permit. Well, I'm not going to go back. I'm not touching that given the wording of the condition. It says it should be complete by September. And then if not, he comes back for a project status update, which is what he's doing. And what's the action? I don't know that there is any action. Okay. I'm not. Did we set it for another status update in like six weeks? You could if you wanted to. I would give him a cushion safe in two months. You know. Yeah, I don't mind checking in. I don't mind showing pictures. The engineer architect, both of them said that they would be willing to show and write letters to you guys to show the status and the things that have been completed. I think just a general update and two months at what with that meeting with that be about too much for now. First meeting of December. December 3rd. How's that sound? December 3rd. Yeah. And an invitation to come back. Yeah, no. Great. No more questions, so don't hit that. Emergency help. Great. I appreciate and accept everyone. Anyone in the public. Everyone. And even the public want us to comment on for 41. Yes, Jeff. Yes, we'll. So this is just I'm the next door neighbor. And just here to. I don't know that we've gotten a clear answer of when the siding will be done. We've heard two to three months and then it might start within a week or two. So it's, this project tends to have an incredibly long life to it without any real great detail. We hear things like, I'm happy to have people come here and show photographs and have the architect come but they're not here, so we're not getting any more detail. We hear that the windows are all in. Unless one of them got put in today, I can tell you they're not all in. So, I mean the question really is, to what extent is Mitchell held accountable to getting this done in a reasonable time? My goal is to have it be done and have it be done quickly so that it's not covering my house with dust all the time. They're not being around out there all the time. I think there's this misunderstanding or maybe not misunderstanding, but this assumption from the board that my concern is that the siding's not up, that it's ugly. And it's not so much that, it's that there's a continuous and now five years plus active construction zone right next to my house, not the least of which has caused damage to my property. That's been well documented, you all know about that. So it's just for me to say, I'm here, I'm listening, I want Mitchell to succeed, but there seems to be no teeth to any of the work that you guys do in terms of making sure that this happens on time. So that's why I just wanted to say that. I would just point out that there is an outer limit to the project approval of two years from this past February. From past February. From this past February. So we're just 10 months into that. Well hopefully we're not even close to, we don't end up getting close to that. I mean I, it does seem that aside from the general slowness that the project was approached in the beginning that the structural disaster that seemed to have fallen on it did compound things and steady progress at least. Well, I'll interrupt steady progress for a second. You know, I've been told this is moving along. I invite you folks to live where I live and watch what steady project is. I mean, you know, Mitchell's telling you the truth. He's got a three man crew. A three man crew with a project of that scale. It's gonna take him a long time to do. And I think we hear, we hear the initial estimate from him and then he backs it up back, right? So the initial estimate back when this permit was issued in February was a number of years out and he really couldn't be committed to when that would be. And then when the question was asked for greater specificity, the date kind of migrated in closer, but with more vagueness. So just sorry to cut you off on that. No, that's understandable. I think we have been in our all sympathetic to your situation. I mean, the project has gone on for a very long time and I know Mitchell appreciates the impact he's having on you. We wanna see it done as soon as possible. It does seem like you're making progress, although from my drive by observations, it's a lot of work at one point and then a long delay before we see any more work. So hopefully you are right on the edge of getting the rest of this done. And I think having you report back in two months, I mean, we're expecting that the report then is we're done. The sighting is done. Yeah. And I would say that this type of situation is, there's been a few others around the city over the years and they're very difficult. You're right, we don't seem to have a lot of teeth in something like this. Can I make a comment? The window in the rear, it's one window on the second floor which is purposely held out because that's how we're planning on getting sheetrock into the second floor. Good. So that is the one window that is missing. So I take back that all windows are in but it's purposely held out. Yeah, okay. So as an access for sheetrock for the second floor by a crane. No. Okay. This is in a public hearings. I guess I'm gonna, sort of looking, no comment from, come right up, Bill. Hello, I'm Bill Ward. I'm the director of permitting inspections and it's our job to find the enforcement balance here because what we don't wanna do is slow or stop the project. I've been monitoring it sometimes daily and been taking a photograph weekly. So I'll be able to confirm everything that you've heard tonight. I'll just add that we also have a vacant building ordinance that a property vacant more than 200 days, 210 days has to comply with some additional requirements. So you can be under construction for a certain period and be exempt from that but we're monitoring it and it's gonna be squeezed in by the requirements that you've put forward but also the vacant building requirements because we don't want any building to go into a constant state of construction and then phasing of non-construction. So again, it's our job and I'll pledge to work with the neighbor and with the property owner to find that balance. We reserve the right to file a notice at any time but I wanna make sure that we do it at the time that it's gonna be beneficial. Not at the peak of when this project should be taking advantage of the good weather, getting it buttoned up and ready to have the final projects done. So I'll work with both of them and we'll find the appropriate enforcement tool at the right time. Right now I defer to you and welcome, I'll be back for the next follow up as well and hopefully have some similar good news. Good. Can I just ask a question? Have you developed an opinion on the pace at which the project is occurring? I concur with Jeff Hand. It starts and it stops. Right now it appears to be in one of those stopped stages. So the photos that I've taken over the last several weeks have a very similar exterior from the Shelburne Road View and I'm not sure if there's any additional interior work going on but can I make a comment? I really think that I've opened it up to the board to come in and see because I've got receipts that I just poured 22 yards of concrete Friday. Harrison's concrete was there. We haven't stopped since we started back in the last meeting of February. There hasn't been one week that we have not been there. So that's the issue is if you take it from Shelburne Road, we can't finish the project only from Shelburne Road. And so even on a weekly basis, if you're open give me a call. Let's do a walkthrough. And a status and what I've gotten done. Because just viewing it and taking it from Shelburne Road, it's gonna appear that I stop and start. But you need to view it from the complete building. Okay, we'll do that. Okay, well, thank you. And we'll try to be cognizant of this and we'll see you in on December 3rd. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. We have one other item on our agenda, which is the schedule for meetings for 2020. This is anything that stands out. We have a few Wednesday meetings because of things happening with elections and town meeting day and holidays. So if, is this something we adopt? Right. It's adoption is the foundation for your so-called regular meeting schedule because everything is not a regular meeting is a special meeting. We don't have any of those planned, do we? No way. It's nature, a special meeting is on the plan. Okay. And is this something that you approve during deliberative? What do we do? We do it now. Do it now or the deliberative is up to you. I move that we adopt the proposed January to December 2020 meeting schedule. Second. Okay. Any comments? Nobody's birthday is on this. It is actually. Oh, wow. We'll have to recognize that one. Did you vote? All in favor. We're closed. Okay. That is the last agenda item. And with that, we'll close. Sort of assuming we'll probably do deliberative.