 We're live. We're here at 3 o'clock rock on Community Matters. You're gonna give it Monday. We're moving past statehood We're talking about what comes next in the Evolution of Hawaii Heavy stuff. It's Ray Tsuchiyama. He's an informed citizen and he has a lot he has a lot on his plate in terms of he he has been an observer of these things for a long time and His ideas are really scintillating with possibility. So we'd love to talk to him. Welcome to the show. Well, thank you very much and You're absolutely right that statehood in 1959 was a disruptive moment in Hawaiian history And it catapulted Hawaii before this very small string of rocks in the middle of the Pacific During World War two through Pearl Harbor, of course it became very famous Into a state equivalent to New York, Texas, California all of us overnight and that was after Alaska Now, of course, if you go back in time there were there were some people in the Senate in the in the Congress who did not Look positively toward a state with a very large non-Caucasian population and the leadership of a white state Decided Alaska first kind of kind of strategy. So Alaska went first they got statehood and Everybody thought Alaska would emerge very dynamic, but right now Hawaii Population-wise and this is a big point is over 1.2 1.3 million residents The state Alaska is barely 750,000 So we are bigger than Alaska in population and that's one of the things that we have to talk about because it introduced a boom in population whereas The focus has been on other things, but I think one of the things that really By becoming a state the population boom occurred how I mean, what was it? Where do they come from? What were they doing? What drew them to our shores? well, it didn't occur overnight and in fact if I lived on Maui for several years and people forget from 1445 the end of the war till the late 70s the Maui population actually declined because they had one business sugar people began leaving for Honolulu people began leaving from Kauai the whole Coffee industry on the corner side of the Hawaii island collapsed during the late 50s and 60s And there is a group of people in Hawaii in Oahu called the Kona Club Who is whose roots go back to that closing of the coffee plantations? All roads began to lead to Oahu Pearl Harbor the military the Vietnam War UH banking Bishop Street insurance. There was a huge Rise in population in Oahu and so the neighbor islands did not enjoy a similar rise until the 80s and 90s and Maui of course during the 90s and 2000 became one of the fastest-growing areas Especially Kihei in South Maui and now is out 165,000 people Before the war and after the war when my father was there it was barely 45,000 people and completely self-sufficient so population The economy was centered on Oahu You know just to just to have a footnote on that Before statehood seems to me and you lived on Maui so you can speak to this the connection The nexus between the neighbor islands and Oahu was pretty robust This is before a lot of aircraft. It was when there were steamers Steaming between the islands on a regular basis or it was a heavy schedule of steamers people were visiting family had family It was not unusual for a family on Maui to have members of that family on two or three other islands And it wasn't it wasn't necessarily a differentiation between neighbor islands versus Oahu was all the islands and there were Connections families and people talk about you know the old days They talk about how they they were actively involved in some other neighbor island Somewhere after statehood it's it's worthy of a whole discussion I think the the islands began to drift away from each other now It could be that because we got airplanes and the steamers went away, and it became more difficult more expensive Whatever a different way of dealing with the neighbor islands the neighbor islands not only did they reduce in population in favor of Oahu But they reduced in connection among themselves and with the people on Oahu and other neighbor islands and that Changed some essential quality of the state that phenomenon all by itself That's a complicated question because if you go back in time during the Kingdom under King Kamehameha the third and others They were actively seeking to keep the islands together all the time That is why if you compare Hawaii state to the mainland, why is there just one school board for the entire state? Why is the state so centralized that when you put coins in the meter of the city and county it goes to the state a Taxation you see how centralized there is no mayor of Kailua. No mayor of Lihui. No mayor of Hilo You know that takes place other than So you have on the mainland you can have a school board for kind of 10,000, but no we have one centralized say back in in the early 19th century the leadership of the of the Kingdom was very very Actively seeking to thwart the island kawaii going to Russia the Maui going with England and so forth and so on They try to keep the islands together So sometimes when we talk about the state and how onerous the state is in terms of bureaucracy and overreaching and and Containing itself and and from the neighborhood perspective. They still refer it to the state of Oahu I'm serious everything runs on Oahu time or who you know It just it just is and there's a resentment. Yeah, there is there's a tremendous resentment that that But however, that's complex because for a Maui or even a Molokai a Molokai seven thousand five hundred people Which was made into the part of Molokai County in the early 20th century where before is to report directly to the kingdom in Honolulu So these are artificial counties when you think about it and so forth so Why refer to Molokai is that When you think about the the taxes paid by Molokai residents and the time and the monies that go back into Molokai There is a this disconnects the taxes greater than the ball Well, the benefits are far greater than the taxes paid by Molokai residents But Molokai is a good example of what I call insulate drift where you know these islands are drifting apart Conceptually in terms of relationships in terms of you know You know sensibilities about the other place and what's really you know sad about Molokai is that they don't want tourists there They don't want people from Oahu there. They you know, they Fishing boats fishing boats. It can't come there. They do. There are no Cruise liners that go there even though they could They don't want people from other islands, especially Oahu to come to Molokai What kind of a thing is that and when you go back to statehood in 59 people voted overwhelmingly Statehood because that would be one state. Yes, all the islands together moving together and and it will mean that a little kawai economically or Molokai or Lanai or whatever could could not exist in the world without the larger islands supporting it, especially Wahoo. So there is a Kind of an economic give and take there But they voted for statehood because they thought that everybody would rise up economically and and and Financially and their lives would be better in terms of schooling and so that so the thought is going back to the kingdom Even today the thought is that the same level of schooling will be in Lihui to Kahala to the Hilo, right that that is the concept Quality ideally yes, the same health service should be in Lihui in Kahala and in Hilo and Kahaloohi that's again the ideal That's what statehood meant to people because they had a disparity if you lived in In a Waimea on on the island of Kauai There was a disparity of living in downtown in Honolulu and so they they believed very much 59 that everybody will rise up to the same level and that there will be First-class citizens within their own state. You see what I mean? Yes Because people believed that there were second-class citizens as a territory vis-a-vis the mainland US, which was the great very profound Great so but but there was a great turnout of people who expected a level of playing field and they because of the disparities of You know of high and low in the society. Yeah, and this goes to a larger discussion Which we should spend some real time on that is the expectations of the people in the state You know forget about what Congress expected or how Alaska saw us and all that the expectations of people in the state coming up Plantations or coming in from you know the big five crowd What did they think was going to happen? Remember all those smiley pictures? Oh, yeah celebrations in 1959 The world was our oyster. We're going to be really fabulous What you know part of it, of course was what you just said sort of an equality uniformity of benefits Pulling together of all the islands. That's only part of it though. Can you describe the rest of it? What did people expect? What are they want in at the time? What were those faces so smiley about and you have to go back To what I said about my father's Generation before the war in education. It was very good. They had radios. They had you know Cars remember in the third-world country. They're just getting TVs They're just getting cars and and getting on the road They had cars in the 30s before the standard living was rising, but that set of expectations They had very good education as English standard education back before the war Patsy Min's father on paya was the first Japanese-American graduate of New York, Hawaii in the 20s So you could see rising expectations through education. Patsy Min could get her law degree at Chicago You know where we're gonna get his law degree in Georgetown So their high school McKinley and Maui high school was great preparation for them So I think and her and what you're saying though. It's really important is that okay? It was a bit of a surprise Everything is going well. We're having good education. We're increasing our standards of living But when you when you make that analysis, you're also saying that before that started happening things weren't so good Say at the time of territorialization Say in the time of World War one It wasn't so good life on the plantations wasn't so good right education Standard of living wasn't so it wasn't so good. And but of course, why do people come to plantations? All right, my grandparents left in 1907 from Kumamoto prefecture to Japan About 15 years before in 1894 Harry Baldwin from Maui graduated from MIT in civil engineering So the big five were thinking ahead. They were bringing new types of Irrigation and and and science and technology back to implantations which would bring people there And comparatively speaking my grandparents had a better life on Maui than in Japan Comparatively and their children my father's generation Would enjoy English language education and then during the war and the war was a great catalyst They saw Rome. They saw new york. They saw london. They saw california They also saw segregation in the south and they brought this all back to hawaii and say oh, we can develop a new society equal to the mainland with Remember Inoue and Yoshinaga and all these for 42nd Veterans were in their you know barely in the late 20s early 30s. It was a young crowd They're in 59 very vital and they had come through the war. They were fearless fearless And they figured they could really do some stuff and they wanted to be equivalent to the mainland society So they so during the 50s they ramped up the they became politically conscious. They were not conscious before then organizations unions all of a sudden turned Into more powerful organizations and began controlling political structures and by 1959 I'm trying to catch all these things at the same time by 1959 We were going to build a utopia a nirvana. We were going to come crashing into the 20th century I remember in all the mainland things were going the same way in 1961 61 There would be a president barely 40 to 43 years old, uh, you know, uh, Mr. same thing and The new deal will be coming up very soon. So it was a in the east-west center and and and Also the beginning of the war vietnam war that would also begin to Say the vietnam war had a very Effect on the country in general but query. This is not an easy question. What kind of effect did the vietnam war have on hawaii? Tremendous positive experience for why because Remember, uh, where did tens of thousands of gi's take their r and r experience It was in waikiki and they brought their wives and families to meet them in waikiki It was a glorious and that led to a building boom within waikiki for all these Gis and their families and and it was a awakening. They would go back to uh, kansas or new york or michigan Louisiana says let's go back and that would start to repeat visitor boom in hawaii So and again because of military investment in pro harbour hickam wheeler and so forth school field It was a huge rise in in federal spending and employment in hawaii. Yeah Let's take a short break. Ray. This is like a fire hydrant of information things we need to know about You know because you you if you if you don't study history Remember history. You are doomed to repeat it. Um, what was his name? We'll be right back Aloha everyone i'm maria mera and i'm here to invite you to my bilingual So we've a hawaii in cindex hawaii every other monday at 3 p.m. We are here to talk about news issues and events local and around the world Join me aloha Aloha, my name is josh green I serve a senator from the big island on the conus side and i'm also an emergency room physician My program here on think tech is called health care in hawaii I'll have guests that should be interesting to you twice a month We'll talk about issues that range from mental health care to drug addiction to our health care system And any challenges that we face here in hawaii. We hope you'll join us again. Thanks for supporting think tech Aloha, i'm kawi lucas host of hawaii is my mainland every friday here on think tech hawaii I also have a blog of the same game at kawi lucas.com where you can see all of my past shows Join me this friday and every friday at 3 p.m. Aloha Okay, so we're back And we have this you know utopian view this dream and it's reinforced by At least the first parlor kennedy administration and we have the vietnam war at least in the first blush was pretty positive We had all these these soldiers and sailors here. We had the blooming of All you know the military establishment. It was all it was all good But but now let me ask you again So on the mainland now in that same period late sixties it was turning pretty sour and there was you know There was all kinds of unhappiness in the generation and in fact in the country in general Did that ever reach hawaii? There was a certain amount of protest, but i'm not sure that it was profound What do you all know? Well, I would say yes and no there were There was an incident at bachman hall university of hawaii involving the then president thomas hamilton and the occupation of bachman hall that occurred about 68 And so there was a lot of turmoil and the burning of the rotc building Back in that time. There was still rotc at uh I'm spilling the blood on the files. Remember that? Well, yes, and also avocados And of course there were deserters who camped out at the church at the crossroads. So there was a And and some unions Liberal unions also supported the end of the war and Patsy mink of course ran on anti-war platform. I mean she was the first Person from hawaii actually running in a presidential election that we we forget about So there was a feelings and and there was a nascent kind of connection with the Newark riots and the And the civil rights movement among the hawaii community at that time. It was just a resonance. There was awakening The first real awakening in the late 60s of the native hawaii movement in terms of music in terms of hula In terms of looking back at the overthrow and that did not exist I I barely had one year of hawaii history at clock hour in communion, for example I rarely heard hawaii music. It was at the home or or in waikiki. Yeah, so that that really didn't Transform itself and then there will be periodically every 10 years a kind of a revisiting, you know renaissance kind of thing In the hawaii community, but that was the first time something happened So until, you know, this whole thing about r and r rest and recreation and the military and fort to russey and all that Um, it seems to me that people have to appreciate that hawaii was like on the other side of of the ocean Hawaii's not, you know, right now we we take it on make an assumption that that hawaii is connected with the country Every minute of every day internet television all that but in those days the television shows were flown in on planes It was not directly streamed The culture was really local And you know, even mcdonalds didn't get here until the late 60s And it was all okazuya until that time Then we had a special culture and it was not necessarily including You know people away from hawaii or ideas that came from far away And and I guess the question, you know, it's like the french protecting their culture There was some people wanted to protect the old times still do and there were other people saying no, let's bring it on And there were an enormous number of people that came with the r and r movement And during the time of vietnam to make their lives here And that that's always an interesting phenomenon making your life in another place because you bring Your skills your way of looking at things and your expectations with you and then ultimately Especially in this kind of disparity of culture you try to change the place you just arrived at and You block other people from following you in the pipeline. This is a you know, very traumatic I think also a disruptive thing to have so many people coming here in such a short period of time late 60s. Yeah well You're correct about the culture changing because um at the time of mid to late 60s There was a vibrant locally made tv Business, uh, including uh checkers and pogo pogo captain Honolulu for children Don't forget filipino fiesta filipino fiesta senor espusio. Don't forget it libya spinda on On the commercials and and a lot of professional wrestling and you're correct that the the news will be very I mean Local and that uh, you you you would look away when they show You know they'll show the scores of the mainland and you're correct that you would wait and then you have And then you watch the show after you know football or basketball show so And and so there was a local culture and then um, if you fast forward to now Cost scores is where you meet your friends. It's your neighborhood Or mcdonald's or mcdonald's and and and you're correct that the many many smaller mom and pops Oh, god's the hour chinese. Uh chop sui jue neighborhood places in Power hour Kali heat they're all gone. They're all gone and and you're you're right at the mainland types of fast foods And so for really really took over a lot of cuisines and and in in hawaii I think well, I think part of this, um, you know imagery that you're building about the expectation of people here in the Around statehood early 60s was they they wanted to have these mainland influences They wanted to be just as just as advanced as anywhere in the mainland I'm you know looking back Which respectively may have not have been the greatest thing in the world to do that But that was the expectation and they wanted it and the question is you know, it took a long time by the way It didn't come right away. It's not like you snap your fingers in 1963, you know and everything comes rolling in on you Um, and I remember uh, some pictures of the development of the downtown area state capital building Gee around statehood a lot of construction in that area. It was a mess It was dirt roads dirt road and the and claniani only out to kaiser there It was largely a dirt road two lane road nothing much go west to red hill It was a dirt road took you forever took you hours to get out there People don't realize how it changed and it took a long time before we developed things like freeways, you know And I you know, I just I wonder retrospectively Whether we had a plan or we just sort of opened our hearts in our minds and said come You know come invest your money here Build your product build your stuff And whether we manage that at all or let it go topsy-turvy And it's a great question because in 59 if you ask people what they were voting for they wanted to become americans You know, what but what was it to become american? You see and No more pigeon. Well well, if uh, but if if somebody was going to uh, uh, You know go take a survey in asia in the years. What is america to you? Oh, it is innovation It is high tech. It is high standards of education That's what one image is the other image is loss of manufacturing, you know empty jobs exports coming in and and and nothing made in america service industry only mcdonald's and finance or whatever Only our kind of things and uh, so there are some parts of america that uh, we are part of and not It's so so after the decades are we more like peoria or are we more like paloalto? You see what I mean because when you say america, there's many americas. I mean america of of uh, you know of peoria illinois or Or in in the rust belt of cleveland and and uh, you know downtown paloalto or or Or la or or new york city quite different. There's different americas composite. Yeah, you see them You jumble them all together and you sort of Build a mr. Potato man kind of american dream And I can't help but thinking of that scene in miss sygon Where the guy jumps on the hood of a yellow convertible yellow catalacan verbal and he sings his song the american dream So so we're at a point where um, you know Has hawaii Become america become part of america, but which america kind of which america are we more like in in uh, That we define ourselves or we are making our own rule because let's hold this point. It's supposed we went In 59 we went to bankok sol Tokyo manila singapore, right? We saw how everything was at that point in those cities We look at honolulu. I would bet on honolulu English language, you know University investment in education though. That's what we'll make you know people coming on a plantation education You know, we were on the on the swing there and then last 20 30 years You see bankok developing. Wow medical tourism infrastructure a lot of things singapore. Wow We got to talk about yeah kind of how they eclipsed us. Yeah 59. I would never put money on on At one point there's certain countries though Like the philippines was advancing and faster economically than japan in the early 60s and then it stopped because of corruption And japan just took off see what can happen if 59 keep the right mental set. Yeah, it falls apart My uncle was uh mailing a penicillin to my relatives in japan. They had no medicine He was shipping spam and and all kinds of corned beef to japan. They had no protein And and then in 20 years it's the opposite. They're coming here with yen to buy kahala, you know Let's let's talk about those shopping centers You know, I don't think we give enough credit or for the uh, the effort and the impact of those shopping centers And i'll name three kahala mall Uh, ala moana and pearl ridge those have had a salient effect on on a wahoo and probably On the state and if not in direct terms then setting the pace for other places But what was 1964? I think um that ala moana was done out of the duck farms there After that was uh, uh, kahala mall, right, which was a little wee Right, uh grocery store or something and those guys packaged it and it was not local investors I thought that was so interesting in both cases. Nobody locally could figure out what to do They were busy building these You know small rental units or condos Up in makiki, but they were nobody was really putting capital together For big things like, uh, ala moana or for that matter kahala mall And I you know think what what I get out of it is that you have to have a certain Mental, you know picture of the future if you were going to put in that kind of money And we didn't we had it, but we didn't want to put the money in you know We weren't fully committed and then these guys came to town They came to town with millions and millions and they built the structures. We should have built. That's what happened And that ended many many, you know in the kaimuki many kalihi many areas just collapsed You know business-wise and and every all roads led to Alamona in the end and when we when we start this conversation up again rey I hope it's soon We'll we'll take off on retail We'll talk about the connection of retail and tourism and real estate and see how that you know like usurped The economy and the culture of the state and when it happened and why it happened And how that effect is still being felt today Ray tsuchiyama