 Rapid economic growth and urbanization have been for years driving global demand for infrastructure. However, despite decades of investment from the public and private sectors around the world, the supply of capital and expertise is still far from meeting the surging demand. The Multilateral Belt and Road Initiative put forward by China is precisely a creative proposal to fill the sky. First introduced in 2013, the vision of the Belt and Road Initiative is to connect the continents, their infrastructure investment, cultural exchange, technological know-how transfer, and other measures. It is time for us to review the initiatives and paths, as well as to brainstorm new ideas to attract the more stakeholders. What are the most updated policies and industry trends related to regional and global partnerships? How to expand clean infrastructure? What are the implications for local collaboration? Caixin Debate – The Belt and Road Impact Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Caixin debate. I am Li Xin from Caixin International. Our next session will be in English. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Caixin debate collaboratively with the World Economic Forum. And our topic today is very important, the Belt and Road Impact. From its inception in 2013 to concrete efforts over the last few years, Belt and Road is enormous, covers more than 80 countries and involves 40% of the world's GDP. And it's not just numbers, it's bridges, roads, facilities, sewage plans. And it translated into real impacts of people's lives and its global and its rich and local in its impact. The initiative is hugely impactful and complex. Developing countries might ask, I want to participate, but can I pay for it? And Chinese SOEs, which leading many of the efforts, they also ask, I want to enter into these new markets, but which have been heavily penetrated by Western counterparts. So should I collaborate or compete? And also for the small, medium-sized companies, they also want to ask, is this just for the big players or what's in this for us? So with all this question in mind and more, we have an exceptionally qualified panel to discuss that with us today. And with viewpoints from the government, the multinational development banks, funds, companies, Chinese companies and international companies. So without further ado, we'll start today's discussion and we'll leave some time for questions today. And as you know, we have a full panel, so please keep your question short without statement. Let's first start with the gentleman sitting on my right, Prime Minister Mr. Shahid Khan Abassi. Pakistan has perhaps the most comprehensive implementation or collaboration on the BRI or the Belt and Road Initiative. How would you assess the local impacts? Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. And we believe that the Belt and Road Initiative is perfectly in sync with the 2017, 2018 World Economic Forum meeting about creating a shared future in a fractured world. The BRI is indeed about creating a future amongst the participant countries. Pakistan is today perhaps the most visible part of the BRI with the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. But when we talk in terms of infrastructure, it is much more than that. It is the BRI is a connection between a series of countries, regions, civilizations, and it's a link together to create a shared prosperity. In terms of defining the BRI, I would say that BRI is the physical manifestation of the bonds between countries that are existed through history. And this would cause a significant improvement in the lives of their citizens. The BRI will result in a freer movement of people, goods, and ideas and also result in a greater culture of openness between the countries. And we strongly recognize the vision and initiative by China and President Xi. What they've done is taken the linkages of yesterday, transposed them onto the fractures of today, and created connectivity for tomorrow. Half of humanity lives in this region. So this is perhaps the best place to start working on the fractures and creating connectivity. Thank you. Thank you for putting that in a historical perspective and a very comprehensive view. And next, I want to hear from President of Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Mr. Jin Licheng. AIIB, as we know it, is really at the forefront of BRI, and you probably can help us answer one of the most frequently asked questions. Since its inception, how BRI has evolved in the last several years? You see, we now have 84 members of our bank. So I would say most of the countries of our, who are our members, probably falling into the category of so-called BNNI platform. So it is quite natural for AIIB to be doing a lot of infrastructure projects with the support of the member countries. We would be very much willing to consider any projects proposed by the member countries. But of course, we have to look at the basic requirements, whether these kind of projects proposed to us would merit the financial support. Basically, first criterion is financial sustainability. We should not do a project which would be loss-making. We will never do a project which would be a white elephant. The second is the support or improvement of the environment. We will be able to finance infrastructure projects without leaving a big footprint in the environment. Instead, we should be able to improve the environment and promote infrastructure investment, and I can highlight that later on. The third is any project we do in any country, any area, must be embraced by the local people. We will never ever do anything which would create problems for the local community. Thank you. It's very important. Financial sustainability, environmental impact, and the local support will elaborate that later during our session. And the next, I want to turn the microphone to Minister Chantran Singh. Singapore is an important gateway to the belt side of the BRI projects. What's your view from the perspective of Singapore as a developed country, as a partner, and also as a financial technology regional hub? Singapore welcomes the Belt and Road Initiative. Actually, we see the impact at three levels. There's the short-term, medium-term, and a long-term impact. I think the short-term impact is an initiative that connects markets. It facilitates trades. It brings about better quality of living and standards of living for people around the region and across the belt. But that's only the short-term impact. There's actually a more important longer term, a mid-term impact, which is that the bank governor has said that it's going to catalyze the local economy. And if this catalytic effect comes about, then there will be a positive feedback loop, not just for the local economy, but also the regional economy and its linkages with China. But I must say that there is a higher order impact, which is even a longer-term impact, and this is how it brings about a system of a global economy tightly integrated together, and that will usher in a new era of growth for the entire global community. Singapore is very happy to participate in this project, and I think we have been working very closely with the Chinese agencies. According to one Chinese agency, they always remind us of this number, you know, the 3385, which means that 33% of all the outbound investment under the BRR initiative comes through Singapore. And 85% of all the inbound investment to China also comes from Singapore. And the reason that Singapore is able to do this is because we are a financial hub. We are able to syndicate the loans together. So the role that we play will include how we can best help to syndicate the loans, how we provide the legal and financial support, the software aspect of this. And I think we are also closely working with the Chinese agencies to see how we can facilitate the training, the software transfer to the third countries. So I think there's tremendous opportunities for Singapore and China to work together to grow this project. Thank you. And the next, term of China National Machinery Industry Corp, or Sino-MAC as we know it, Mr. Ren Hongping. Yes. So please share with us your perspective from Chinese ASEAN. Okay. I'm from China National Machinery Industry Corporation. Thank you very much. I think at this moment the world we live in today has shown us that the inequality and instability go hand in hand. And due to lack of proper connectivity to the global economy, many parts of the world has been held back by end development. And I believe the Belt and Road Initiative is an opportunity to address this issue. At Sino-MAC, we have made the Belt and Road central of our international strategy. We have completed more than 1,200 projects, overseas projects across all types of sectors. At date, we have completed all in the process of completing projects in 48 countries along the Belt and Road. And to maximize the returns to all stakeholders, we also collaborated with other leading companies like Siemens and GE along the Belt and Road countries. All working together, we have provided more reliable access to those countries, including the clean, secure and affordable energy. So, however, working on cross-border projects can sometimes mean a challenge of miscommunication between parties. So I think we need to tell the stories of communities that the Belt and Road can provide to the everyday people. So the Belt and Road, I think, is more than just an infrastructure project. It is a crucial engine for building better and more socially inclusive tomorrow. So therefore, I think the Belt and Road belongs to everyone. Thank you. Thanks for sharing the very interesting number you have 1,200 projects in 48 countries. It's massive. And also, you're echoing what Mr. Jean has highlighted, that you have to understand the local people's need and make sure you tell the stories right. And now we turn to Mr. Michael Burke from US. US is not part of the Belt and Road initiative yet, but many US companies are actually participating in this. So from your perspective, are you participating? And also, yes, how do you think AECOM, that you are the CEO of, is benefited from the BRI? Sure. Well, thank you for allowing me to participate. First of all, we are participating in the Belt and Road initiative in various degrees, but what it means to us and what it means to the region is quite significant. You mentioned the numbers. 80 countries involved. 40% of the GDP of the world touches the Belt and Road initiative. But more importantly, almost 60% of the world's population falls in those few countries. And many of those countries are less developed and in need of significant development. And the Belt Road initiative is, without a doubt, the largest infrastructure project in our lifetime. And that project will allow those underdeveloped countries to enhance their development. We've seen all the studies that investments in infrastructure generally have a two and a half times impact on GDP in the region by allowing the free movement of goods and eliminating the friction on the economy that naturally happens when you don't have infrastructure to allow goods and people to freely move across that region. But what we recognize is the size and scale of that project cannot be done by any one country and it cannot be done by the private sector alone or the public sector alone. It's going to require significant collaboration. And that is where AEcom has been involved in collaborating with the state-owned enterprises in various countries around the region to bring their expertise together with our private sector expertise to make sure that we're bringing the best ideas, the best techniques from a financing perspective and from a construction and design perspective to solve this incredible problem that we have is the inability for goods to move freely around that region. But it is a project that has monumental significance in the region. AEcom has already been participating and collaborating and we expect to participate for many years to come. Thank you. You mentioned about collaboration and we'll touch upon that later. And on the far end, but certainly not the least, Mr. Kirill Dimitriev and the CEO of Russian Direct Investment Fund, Russia's sovereign wealth fund. So Russia is one of the largest countries along the belt, along the belt on the north. So from your perspective, how do you see international collaborations and how BRI is impacting Russia? Well, we feel that, you know, fractured world is something that's being discussed in Davos and one belt, one road initiative, is probably the best way to address this. And we feel it's one of the probably most important initiatives right now to show connectivity and President Xi's message of inclusivity contrasts very poignantly with some of the other messages we hear about division and about the fractured world. And we feel that there are several very important layers of this implementation because the key issue is execution. How can this be implemented? First layer we feel is partnerships between countries and also, for example, Eurasia Union, which is sort of partnership between Russia and some of its neighbors. And we believe that Eurasia Union can really be connected to one belt, one road initiative, and that's one level. The next level is institutions. And I think it's great that AIB is there playing a very active role. We also created Russia China Fund, which is our partnership with China Investment Corporation, partnership with China Development Bank to have Rumimbi because we believe that Rumimbi is also an important part of the equation and also our investments with Silk Road Fund. And the third layer are projects specifically in the areas of cooperation. And for example, with CIC, we are building the first ever Russia-China bridge that we couldn't believe the amount of discussion that we've had should we have this bridge, not have this bridge, what if Chinese goods start flooding the Russian market, but we overcame this and really made it a very sustainable return project. So it's the first ever bridge, a railway bridge between Russia and China, saving goods 400 kilometers of traveling otherwise. But it's broader than just bridges and railroads. We also cooperate on technology. And we feel that technological connectivity is important with Silk Road Fund. We invest in one of the techno parks in Russia and connectivity between China and Europe through Russia, of telecoms and maybe high-speed trains is also important. And the final point I'll make is sustainability of returns. And maybe we'll talk a little bit about later, but there is a big risk in very complex projects like this not to have sustainable returns, but returns have to be sustainable for this really to be, you know, a sustainable effort. Thank you. Thank you. Very interesting points. I'll probably elaborate on the return part later, but let's come back to Pakistan and use that as one concrete example to understand once there is such a great need of infrastructure and once we meet the need of infrastructure, what kind of power that we'll unleash? Today the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor is basically about infrastructure. We are putting in power plants, highways, railway is being modernized. We have ports are being modernized, airports are being created and economic zones are being created for export growth. And the results have already started to come in. Our cement industry, the 56% additional capacity being added. Our construction industry grew by 9.1% last year. Our exports are up 15%. So the knock-on effects are already there. Not only that, we are creating greater investor confidence and there is a lot of investment coming outside the CPAC where third countries have access to. So it's much more than the infrastructure that you see on the ground. And of course, the key principles are financial sustainability and lessening of the environmental impact. And on both the CPAC today, I think is a flag bearer of both financial sustainability and of Pakistan being a more responsible global citizen. Despite all these power plants coming in and despite some coal plants coming in for the first time into our energy mix, the net effect on the environment will be positive through replacement of older, less efficient, oil-based plants. Very interesting. And also, one question that people often ask is, it's nice to have clean infrastructure and especially on the clean energy part, but the cost might be higher. So how do you reconcile the needs, the urgency of upgrading the infrastructure and also the wish to leapfrog and directly jump ahead and have the clean, the best facilities there? That actually has not been our experience because the efficiency gains more than pay for the additional cost of environment friendly infrastructure. So actually, like I said, we have net savings, if you can call it that. So we are, from an environmental point of view, even more sustainable. Interesting. And another question is, for government endorse projects, it has many app sites including the resource it can garner, including the support it can have. But also, people will try to avoid the white elephants that Mr. Jean has just mentioned. How to avoid white elephants in the BRI projects? First of all, you have to try to find out how white elephants were created. And mostly, you will find white elephants were created with the public money. And this is normally the showcase of the politicians to show how great they are. They can do something wonderful. So give you a giant toy only for adults. So this is the problem. I'm not saying the private sector did not make these kind of mistakes, but normally the private sector people will see whether the money they're purchasing would generate resources. So to cure the society of the malaise of giant white elephants, I think it's very much important for us to have a broad consultation before the project is created. For the one Belt and Road project, for instance, President Xi said, broad consultation, joint construction, and shared benefit. So broad consultation is really the key. And if you do not engage the public sector, the private sector, the people, the stakeholders, shareholders, it would be very hard to prevent creating these kind of white elephants. But also, I would say, banks like us, the multilateral development banks are very careful before we put our resources in any project. So working with us, you are safe. And also, I'd like to draw your attention to a very critical distinction between white elephant projects and the projects which were designed with certain amount of excess capacity. If you complete an infrastructure project and day one, when you start operation, it's full capacity, it's a failure, it's not a success. If you do some infrastructure project with certain amount or appropriate amount of excess capacity, leaving room for expansion, if you build a road with less traffic than designed, probably it's not a big issue because you need time to see the full capacity would be met. So I would like to draw the distinction between white elephant projects and the infrastructure projects which will leave room for expansion. Thank you. Thank you. Very interesting point. Let us know how to see, how to identify what elephant and especially not with the excess capacity that it's not what elephant, but let the economy to play the catch up. Certain amount or appropriate amount of excess capacity. The key is the appropriate amount. If you just say Mr. Ching said excess capacity, oh, I got my points, you're distorted. Please, if we have media here, don't say Mr. Ching said excess capacity is great. You're wrong, okay? There's a term for it. Certain amount. Appropriate amount. And the key of identifying what's the appropriate amount is consulting strategy. Consulting MDBs. Yeah, MDBs, yes. That's great. You mentioned about the engagement of the private sector, especially on the financing, especially on the broad consultation. So I want to turn that to Mr. Chan. And from your experience, how to engage the private sector, especially for the small and medium-sized companies? Actually, we have, in Singapore, we have done quite a number of projects with China. Over the many years, we had the Suzhou Industrial Park in the 1990s. We have the Tianjin Eco City in the 2000s. And most recently, we have the Tongqing Connectivity Initiative, which I'm responsible for. But I think throughout all these projects, there are a few principles that we always adhere to. And like what was mentioned, I think the first thing is really to understand the ground needs, be it in China or in other countries. And the needs, even in China, evolves with time. When we first participated in the Suzhou Industrial Project in the 1990s, I think what China needed at that point in time was industrial parks. It was the first industrial park, partnering a foreign partner to manage the park. At that point in time, there was also a lack of confidence in the future of China's economy. So we went in, we built the industrial park, and today it's replicated all across China in different forms. But by the year 2000, China has gone on to the next phase of development. We were talking about sustainable development and the concern about sustainability ecosystems came to the forefront. And we too in Singapore developed our method of working with China to bring it to a new level, which was why we built the Tianxing Ecosity from the salt marshes, which is actually quite a different project from anything else we have done in the rest of the world. And we fast-forward to the year 2010 and beyond, and we realised that actually China has also gone past that stage whereby China has its own domestic capabilities to talk about eco-sustainable development. At the same time, for the third project, we asked ourselves, together with our Chinese partner, what is the problem definition? What is the challenge that we are facing? And the problem definition that we come up with together with the Chinese officials, both at the central and at the local level, was this. In China, the development was rather unbalanced with a heavy emphasis on the coastal area. The question was how can we unleash the potential of western China, which included the land area, but wanted the population? How can we bring down the logistic and financial costs to bring real benefits to the companies so that we can catalyse their development? So neither the Chinese government nor the Singapore government will be there to pick what we call the winners or the losers. We are there to provide the substrate to catalyse the industries to take place. And that's why we work very hard to make sure that we can bring down the logistic costs. And it was also on this basis, working closely with the private partnership, we started what we call the Southern Transport Corridor to open up a new strategic line of comms from western China out to the South China Sea via a north-south route, rather than the traditional east-west route that goes through the Tangjiang, which has the three gorgeous dams as one of the choke points, and finally to Shanghai. And with that, we are able to drastically bring down the logistic costs. This is an example of how we add her to the market principles, speak to the local people, understand their needs, and have tangible projects that bring about real benefits rather than to build projects in a vacuum. So if we add her to these principles of making sure that we understand the local ground needs, talk to the local people, have tangible results to benefit and catalyse the local economy, I think we won't go very long. So if we add her to these same principles when we go outside China to work on third-country projects, I think it is the same, be it in Pakistan, in Sri Lanka, in Africa, anywhere else. We want not just to connect the local economies to the Chinese economy or the global economy, but we also want to catalyse the local economy to the wider economy. So I think if we continue down this path, we will be all right. Thank you. It's very important to understand the local needs to bring the tangible results. And part of that, to engage the private sector, as you mentioned, is to let them see the rail returns and how to ensure the rail returns. I want to hear from Kirill. Yes, thank you so much. Well, first of all, I think there will be many projects that have very attractive returns. And if you look at some of the numbers, Belt and Road Initiative has 40% of the world population, 16% on the world GDP, only 12.5% of the world e-commerce. So there is huge opportunity to grow e-commerce, grow GDP, so lots of projects will be having attractive return. Now, the real question is what about projects with low return, because we know that infrastructure, some projects have low return or even lost making. And we believe really two things are important. It's co-investment and then government really giving sufficient capital grants to make sure that investors get at least a minimal rate of return. For projects that are not necessarily, you know, positive returns themselves. And why we believe co-investment is important. You know, we are co-investing with the largest sovereign wealth funds of the world, and we feel that combining expertise and putting some of the private money in an infrastructure project is very important. It helps control costs. It helps avoid mistakes. It really makes things very practical. So co-investment is absolutely critical. Now, for those projects that, for example, have negative returns, can you bring private money there? And it seems no, but the answer is yes. And we discuss this during G20 infrastructure initiative. And basically, government needs to give sufficient capital grant, free money, so that investors can make their returns. Investors would compete and the returns will not be that significant, but that allows you to bring private capital into pretty much any infrastructure project. And we believe this is very important for sustainable returns, because if there are mistakes and money is lost, it will undermine the credibility of Belt and Road Initiative. So sustainability of returns is absolutely key and we believe it can be done through active co-investment with private investors. And AIIB actually does a lot of co-invest, and how do we ensure the return for that, Mr. Xing? You know, if you look at the project, you have to look at two levels. One is more micro, the other is certainly micro. So if the project is good in and of itself, in terms of design, implementation, completion on schedule, certainly it's very good. But it does not mean that project would be a success if you don't look at a macro situation. That is why when we help the developing countries identify some projects, we want to draw their attention to the broader perspective. We support lots of projects in Pakistan and power generation, transmission, developing power grids, you know, and also you develop a port, you have to make sure upgrading or building new railroads, roads will all be coordinated. Otherwise, the project which will be waiting for other projects to support it. That's why to achieve very high returns of the project, you should look at both sides, which is very much important. Otherwise, a good project will be waiting to produce. But without the supporting factors, you'll still be loss making probably. Thank you. And now let's turn to the companies that actually implementing these projects. And I want to ask Mr. Xing about it. You are involved in more than 1,000 projects around the world. Have Chinese companies practiced how that improved throughout the years? Well, when we talk about the practices, even sometimes we're talking about the standards, I think one thing is for sure, that is values will decide the success of a project. So let me take our collaboration with the local community in Lapland, Finland to build a next generation buyer refinery as an example to answer this question. We are working together with the local community to create eight innovative buyer products. So all workers will fully respect the unique biodiversity of the region. And this will have the local people contribute to national and European-wide development goals, including the EU's buyer economy strategy. So all work here is not only about mitigating climate change. It is mainly about meeting the people's evergreen needs for a better life. So implementing the Belt and Road will go a long way towards creating more caring, more equal and more human world. Thank you. Thanks. And that understanding the local needs is part of the race standard for your projects and investment overseas. And I want to turn this to Mike. Mr. Danny Labrador on the positive side, you invest and work extensively overseas as well. What are the common hurdles you would generally encounter, or you have to bear that in mind? Common hurdles. How much time do we have? Two minutes. Listen, the hurdles are wide and varied in implementing infrastructure projects. And they range from regulatory environments around environmental issues, around permitting, around taxation, bringing all the local stakeholders together. All of these obstacles are present in so many varied forms in so many different countries. And when you look at the implementation of an infrastructure project, there are enough uncertainties with respect to the revenue risk on the project at the end of the day, the technical risk, the construction risk. There's enough uncertainties. And what we're always encouraging countries and political leaders to do is to take as much uncertainty off the table as you can as it relates to the regulatory environment and the tax environment. We talked to clients about investing in new projects where they're faced with a certain tax regulation that may or may not change. And when we're talking about a 30-year project, we need certainty of the regulatory environment because, as I said, there's plenty of other uncertainties. And so one of the great fortunes that we have had is AECOM operates on projects in 150 countries. And so we've seen enough of these obstacles and are prepared to deal with many of them. And so what we have found is the collaborating with the state-owned enterprises, and we work together with state-owned enterprises on projects all around the world, and many of them have extraordinary capabilities of building infrastructure projects in their own countries. But when they go into a new country, they need some collaboration and some partnering from organizations like ours that maybe have dealt with some of these before. And so it's that collaboration and to the point that you made earlier of bringing the private sector together so that we are knowledge-sharing and bringing the best practices together is going to help us implement more of these projects through the Belt and Road Initiative. Yes, Kira, please. Yes, and just one quick addition. I think very important to have a very strong local partner because we, for example, have 15 sovereign wealth funds for our partners in different jurisdictions. We cannot imagine investing in those countries without them being our partners. So I think having local partners that can solve lots of issues, and I welcome, for example, creation of Pakistani sovereign wealth fund. I heard that it's going to be created soon, I think, you know, for us to invest additionally in Pakistan, having a partner like this would be very helpful. So local partners are absolutely critical. So local partners, and take the uncertainties of the table, Prime Minister, what's your response to that? I think it's important that we ensure that these projects don't create distortions. So they should be inclusive. They should be available to all investors. Of course, there are bilateral constraints that are there, but they should be available to all investors with the same level playing field that is available to the local players. We must also ensure compliance with the standards, and we must be cognizant of, I fully appreciate the comments about white elephants, and hopefully what may seem like a white elephant today, through the synergies that are created, through the BRI and the connectivity issues, I think over a life cycle cost and through replacement of inefficiencies, those white elephants probably will turn out to be more efficient utilization of resources. But yes, it is very critical to be aware of the white elephants. Governments are known for non-optimal utilization of resources, and that's something that the projects have to guard against. That's something that we are very cognizant of, that the projects have to be financially sustainable and contribute to the environment. Yes, very important. And if I can turn from a slightly discussion on the heart side of the BRI project, which is more focusing on the players and the financing and the feasibility of the projects, turn to slightly the soft side, that is the governance, the standard, and also the transparency involved in that. What kind of complementary policies do you think countries should have to make these projects really taking roots? Yes, I think that's a very important question on how countries can work together. For example, Pakistan, through its port development and highway development and rail development, can probably provide much more efficient connectivity to most of Central Asia, which is landlocked. So through complementary policies, I think a greater utilization of the resource or the project that is created, of course, taking into consideration that we do need some extra space to be left over, I think the complementarities will create much greater financial sustainability for the projects. Singapore actually, just like Mr. Chen elaborated, does a lot of projects regionally and with China as a very good example. So when you build projects, what institutions or systems you are looking for, what's your checklist and how to avoid sounding condescending when you are working with the local partners? I think there are three levels that we can talk about in this aspect of the softer side of it. I think the lowest level of competence is that every commercial project must be commercially viable. So that is taken as a given. We need to be disciplined so that we do not end up losing the confidence of the public in the investment of such projects. But that is the short-term effect. The second order and higher order effect is that whether it brings about real benefits to the local community, does it catalyse the local community? I think we have seen across the world that many projects done by foreign countries in a third country whereby everything is brought in from the outside. So what it gives is the local partner able to sustain that project. And that's what we mean by catalytic effect, that you are able to catalyse the local community, the actions, and there's a software transfer. So I think the test of the pudding is not when the foreign partner is there. The test of the pudding is really when the foreign partner is no longer there, is the local community able to seize those opportunities and to build upon it. And that is the second order effect. But I think the highest order of effect that we try to achieve is that now China is actually at the cups of history with China's growth, there's tremendous opportunity for China to do good for the rest of the world. I can understand and I've heard theories where people are afraid, hesitant about China's growth. But this is an important historical opportunity for China to convince the rest of the world that actually its actions has a broader perspective of not just immediate commercial gains to itself or tries to catalyse the local economy to a certain extent in the medium term. But more importantly, over the longer term, China is helping the world to build a better system that allows the world to participate in the next phase of growth for the world economy. And if China is able to use its power, use its capacity to catalyse this, it will win the trust and confidence of the world. I think the Chinese have a very simple phrase to say that, you know, you use your benevolence to bring about that global community. And I think that's what President Xi spoke about last year at Davos here, where we talk about a common destiny for mankind. For those countries with great powers, great resources, they have great responsibilities to bring the world along and build the system for the world to thrive. And I think this will be a tremendous opportunity for China to show the world the kind of power that it wants to be. It is an inclusive one. It's a forward-looking one. It's one that brings everyone along. So I think to me, that is the greatest gain for China in terms of winning the soft aspect of all this Belt and Road project. I think a very important point has been raised here about developing local capability. So projects must contribute to that. It's not only that the foreign companies come in, they develop the project and they leave. So local capability is very critical to the whole experience. And over the last five years, we have witnessed that in Pakistan where we did not have, for example, major contractor who could build motorways. But with working with Chinese companies over the last five years, we now have several contractors who independently are bidding and delivering quality motorways. So this energy is again very, very critical to developing the BRI and the projects within that. Cultivating local capacity and part of that is technology transfer. So from the company perspective, how can you do that? Are you doing that, Mike? We've been doing that for quite some time. Our business is based on building sustainable, operating businesses in each of the countries and cities in which we operate. Because we believe over time it's much more effective to have a team on the ground with a basic fundamental understanding of what we do versus the flying in delivering the project and flying back out. So we have been focused on two types of knowledge transfer. We call it soft transfer and hard transfer. On the soft transfer side, it is helping with the management of these large projects, not just the technical capabilities, but also we focus on the hard knowledge, the technical transfer, to make sure that we are collaborating within our organization through our 90,000 employees around the world and bringing the best technical expertise to that project and leaving that technical expertise behind. But the technical expertise is not enough. You have to transfer the soft knowledge of managing the projects and all of the other obstacles that we talked about just a moment ago. It's equally important to focus on all of those obstacles and managing through them as it is to providing the best technical solution to the project. If I may just add. Yes, please. An example of the Soto Industrial Park when we first worked with China many years ago in the 1990s. I think what most people would see is the physical industrial park that so many acres of land with buildings and so forth. But actually what was most important was what went behind the scene. The number of delegations that came to Singapore to look at the management system, the management culture, the number of delegations that Singapore sent to Soto Industrial Park to help build that culture. I think those are the intangibles that are perhaps even more important than the physical park itself. The physical park itself, I think we can replicate it quite easily with standards to be proliferated. But the software requires time. It requires time, it requires commitment, it requires energy to see through that cultural change to bring it to the next level. And once we have that software transfer, then it's really on its own, and Jin is on its own steam, it can catalyze even more projects in China and beyond. Thank you. And one... From the practice of ours, I would like to add something. We live and work by our values, and one of such values is to invest our workforce. So I do agree with what Mr Prime Minister said. We could not just complete the project and go away. So what we did for the last couple of years, so we just train our local people, I mean we employ them and train them to high standards. We transfer our knowledge to them, so they and their community can grow further. And I believe they are the future of their country of the world, under the world. The power of one project is limited, but the power of people is unlimited. So we are looking for the long-term stakeholders' engagement for any projects over ours. Very important. I'm sure there will be a lot of questions from the floor, but let me just quickly ask one question before I open up the floor. Protectionism, because in Davos here, we talk a lot about protectionism. Currently, most of the BRI projects are still in the developing countries. But eventually that we're moving to the developed world, is protectionism your concern, Mr Jin? Protectionism is a kind of reality you have to live with. But I think when we promote the connectivity projects, infrastructure projects, which can bring people together with a shared benefit, I think there will be less and less market for protectionism. Sometimes if the benefits of the globalized economy, the benefits of this connectivity, the integrated economy is not shared equitably. Protectionism would raise its ugly head. So we are very much careful about the impact of the infrastructure projects, which will be good for not just the developing countries in the Bell Road area, but also for the major developer countries. I'll give you one example. We are promoting the connectivity projects in Eurasia, bringing Europe and Asia together, creating huge market for many companies in European countries. This is also very much good for the American countries. Even the United States is not a member of our bank, we still engage in American financial institutions and manufacturers. So Bell Road initiative and also the investment done by the multilateral development institutions. We co-finance with the World Bank, we co-finance with ADB. All this would create a huge market. So this, in my view, is likely to ease the concerns on the part of some of the people. But I want to highlight one point. Please look at the connectivity projects as a public good. It's not simply a project for your own country. And if you design a project, a road, a railway, a port as a global public good, that would cut the costs of shipping, transportation, transaction. This is good for everybody. So in this regard, regulatory coordination, macro policy coordination is very much important. So as long as we can go forward along this line, we can maximize the positive externality involving all of the participating countries. I believe in the next stage of globalized economy and the regional and global cooperation, we should pay more attention to share the benefits as President Xi highlighted. And that, I would say, probably would ease the concern of some of the people and would mitigate the concerns of some people who are worried about their own benefit. So it's very much important, as I said, highlight this point. We are building public goods and public services. We need regulatory coordination to try enhancing shared benefits. Very briefly, I think Bob Schiller, who is here in Davos, has a great story about storytelling. So storytelling is becoming very important. And I think to fight protectionism, it's very important to have very good storytelling about the benefits of the project. For example, Vladivostok, we invested with Changi in Vladivostok Airport. So we're bringing expertise from Singapore. It's good for Russia far east. It's good for tourism. So the storytelling and showing good pictures of projects is very important to fight protectionism. Very important. Just one sentence. By definition, connectivity and protectionism are in contradiction with each other. So when reliance increases, inherently protectionism will be reduced. So that's how we look at it. Fantastic. So now we have about seven minutes to open up to the floor. If you have a question, raise your hand, and please keep your questions short. This gentleman here, please. Mikey's coming. We can hear you, I mean. Thank you. We've been talking about the Eastern impact a lot today. I'm also wondering how you assess the European contribution to the Belt and Road Initiative. And looking forward, how do you assess closer Eurasian cooperation geopolitically in the long term? And especially I'm curious about Mr. Chan-Chung Singh's opinion on this and Mr. Dmitriyov's. So who will take you first? Curio or Mr. Chan? Well, I'll just say one quick thing. I think, you know, Russia really wants to be a positive actor in the world. And I think its position geographically between China and Europe can be used very positively. We believe in Eurasia, Union, and Belt Road Initiative integration. We believe that lots of things can connect Europe and China through Russia. And we believe that would be a very positive thing to ease some of the tensions that obviously exist. For us, I think we believe in an open system. Our perspective is that the more the countries connect with each other, the more interdependencies that we create, the smaller the chances of conflict. And we should move beyond the perspective of a zero-sum game. Because I think what we are embark on in this together is a global project. If we can unleash the potential of the European and Asian community together and to create even more interdependencies, I think it will both well for everyone. So I am optimistic and I would strongly encourage the greater connectivity, the greater connections across both regions. Thank you. And the gentleman here. Good morning. Thank you for such informative presentation. My name is Khadim Al-Daray. I am from United Arab Emirates. My question to our colleagues from China how other countries at UAE and the GCC could benefit out and get advantage of such logistic corridor that definitely will shaping the future of trade globally. Maybe Mr. Jun first. Me? You see when we develop infrastructure projects certainly we look at this with the broader perspective we want to improve the logistics and talking about our bank we support the infrastructure projects in the Middle East countries. Our bank has a policy which is different from those well established ones. We don't have part one, part two countries. Any member of the bank could have access to the financing from our institution. So we are actually working in the Gulf countries to support the infrastructure projects which will definitely help with your countries in the logistics and help them diversify away from excessive dependence on the traditional sectors. That's why we have the advantage of being able to work in the so called high income or high middle income countries. So we are very much keen as you know we have already financed the project in Oman and I discussed the infrastructure projects like railways and other countries. So that will greatly help with the economy in the Gulf areas. Thank you. We probably have time for one lady over here. One last question. Thanks very much. I'm Jennifer Morgan executive director from Greenpeace International and just wanted to draw a little bit on the different standards questions. We know that there's statements from Chinese leadership that it should be a low carbon green connective but I'm curious how you think you can avoid going to a minimum standard when there's different standards in different countries on the environment despite countries signing up for the Paris agreement. Thank you. Anyone who is up for it. Let me pick the question. Let me try to answer the question because at least I'm a Chinese national right? Even though I'm working in the international institution. If you look at the ideas of the Chinese government in promoting global regional integration through infrastructure investment and if you look at the policies and the measures adopted by the Chinese government you can see they are really ramping up their efforts to set the bar very high. For instance, the Chinese Development Bank and also Axing Bank they used to make a lot of loans outside, normally trying to meet the needs of the barring countries but now I think there's more discussion about the standards the so-called environmental protection and resettlement the human rights the Chinese Development Banks would not simply give you the money regardless of the consequences of those investments. So you see it's really I think they are moving really on a very steep curve improving. We have Mr. Ren here and when you invest outside to my knowledge you also set a very high bar you would not simply give them some money because they need the money, they want to do something you do it. I think we have fundamental change in the conceptualization of the investment projects in those countries. Likewise, when the Chinese leader created the creation of this bank it's very clear we must operate by the international standards and we must take care of environmental protection we must take care of the local people we will not create problems for the people who would otherwise be adversely affected by these infrastructure projects so you see these kind of dialogue is very much important and I would say setting a high bar is vitally important for the credibility of Belt and Road Initiative. Thank you. Do you have anything to accompany Mr. We have lots of practices working cross-border projects first of all we have to follow the whole country's standards, their rules and if any possible we will reach the standard so we have to follow even for those kind of standards we have to follow the high standard, sometimes the financial institutions like AIB they also ask the contractors must follow a high standard to maintain the green and sustainable growth for the whole countries. Very important, raise the bar very high so before we close this session I want to ask each of our panelists to use probably because we're running out of time one word or one phrase to share with us what's the most important thing you think that will help BRI projects to win trust, confidence and support locally and to echo the theme to make BRI really part of shared dream one word or one phrase let's start with the minister. I would say jobs. Mr. Ching. I think I will share the story of don't just see this as building a port because there are three ways to see what you mean by building a port you can see as building a port to enhance the connectivity for trade you can see the building of port as a catalyst for the local economy but most importantly we can see the building of a port to enhance the connectivity for trade importantly we can see the building of a port as China's commitment to build a global system of connectivity that global common infrastructure that we talk about. The story behind the story which is that if we are just focused on the short term here and now then I think we might miss the picture it is just like the brick layer is it laying a brick or is it building a wall or is it building a cathedral and the leadership have the wisdom to know which level of aspirations they are going for. I would like to say just one key word that is for all contractors sustainable social lessons that will be very important sustainable social lessons very important to Mike The key to success in two words global collaboration global collaboration, then you have the last word signature projects storytelling. Signature projects and storytelling. With that, please join me thanking all my wonderful panelists for this wonderful show. Thank you. And thanks for watching Science and Debates.