 Welcome to Dare to Dream podcast with your host, Debbie Dashinger. Our guest today will be Amy E. Smith who teaches chronic people pleasers and perfectionists how to stand up for themselves without being dicks. Amy gives easy to implement challenges designed to rapidly increase self-confidence and self-worth on Dare to Dream podcast today with Debbie Dashinger. The Dare to Dream podcast has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards and a Webby award. It's ranked in the top 100 best podcasts in USA and all of self-improvement on Apple podcasts. Currently, it's trending at 49 in Sweden as well as number 24 in Portugal. Thank you to all the countries and all the people for tuning in and forgetting this message. Debbie Dashinger is a certified coach. Her expertise is visibility and media. She coaches people to write a page-turner book, takes their book to a guaranteed international bestseller status, and she shows you the ultimate visibility formula how to get booked on radio and podcasts and get amazing results for your guest interview spots. If you'd like to learn more about her, go to DebbieDashinger.com and get your free tools, templates, and videos on how you can be interviewed right now on media. Go to DebbieDashinger.com slash message, D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R dot com slash message. Are you wondering how your staying silent messes up your frequency? Don't let your silence make you a liar. My guest today is Amy E. Smith. She's a certified life coach and credentialed hypnotherapist, master speaker, and personal empowerment expert. She is the founder of the Joy Junkie, and as a coach, writer, podcaster, and speaker, she moves individuals into radical personal empowerment and self-worth. With a cute focus on helping people find their voice, she is highly sought after for her uncommon style of irreverence, wisdom, and humor. Amy has been a featured expert in Inspired Coach Magazine, YourTango.com, and on Fox 5 San Diego. Get your gifts from her and find out more at TheJoyJunkie.com slash free, and now we start the show. Welcome, Amy Smith, to the Dare to Dream show. It's so great to have you. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. I just adore you already. So excited. Beautiful. Mutual adoration. I want to start with the idea that sometimes we can actually be our own worst enemy. We're this inner voice, not that I've ever been there. Of course. Of course. You're too fat. You're too old. You're, I'm sure there's not only you're too thin. I know people who say you're too thin. Sometimes you should have boobs. You're not successful. You're not talented. I mean the loop tape can be very painful. Is there a way to embody a stop like enough and actually heal and recover from that? Sure. You know, I think part of it is understanding exactly what that voice is and that it's, it's actually rooted in our physiological fear response. So we are born with our fight or flight, right? Like where if we feel a sense of threat, if we feel as though we're in danger in any way, we react in, in various forms, right? We might flee. We might fight. We might fawn. We might freeze. So we're experiencing an element of fear and that's exactly what happens when are the critical factor of the mind starts to pop in and say you're in danger. Now, in days of old, we might have been fearful of falling off of a cliff or not being part of a group of people or being attacked by a mountain lion or something like that. Well, now that fear response has kind of evolved into a place where we experience fear when we're actually not being threatened. That inner critic voice is sort of the, the vocal piece of the fear response. So the critical factor of the mind is actually just trying to keep you safe. And what that, what that really means is if you know how to be a people pleaser, or if you know how to talk shit to yourself and you have created that pattern, that neural pathway in the mind that registers to your mind as safe. Like it's safe to talk shit. It's safe to be a perfectionist. It's safe to have all of this self doubt, even though it's really uncomfortable and it's not something that we want to do and we want to shift. It's not productive either. Right, right. But the mind goes, Oh, we know that therefore it's safe. So then when you introduce these ideas of speaking kindly to yourself. Or, Oh, no, you can believe in yourself that inner critic that critical factor goes, No, you can't. That's a bunch of bullshit. No, you aren't you aren't good enough you aren't smart enough you aren't pretty fit, you know, fill in the blank. So I think partly recognizing that it's like a best friend who's giving really poor advice, who just doesn't really know what. It's like, you know, giving me a stuff of some is more primitive concepts. So understanding that you can recognize it and go, Oh, I know what's happening. You're getting chatty, because I'm on to something. It's not necessarily that I'm not capable or that I'm not awesome or that I'm not deserving of something. It just means that this area is new. This is new territory so my mind is going this is not safe. Send in all of the inner critic chatter. One of the pieces of that that you can do is first of all recognize recognize the voice recognize the trigger is that loud around parenting is that loud around your career is that loud around interpersonal relationships. So what is the, the impetus behind that barrage of commentary that happens in your mind. The other thing to understand about that is not everybody hears their inner critic literally not everybody hears words or phrases or verbiage. Some people it is more of a visceral emotion or feeling. So the way I describe that is, you know, let's say you are cruising through social media and you see somebody you went to high school with or something and they just have all of this success, right. And you don't think anything that's like a literal phrase but your heart kind of sinks, and you get kind of this yucky feeling. It's more of that somatic experience and so you can kind of tap in wherever the entry point is so if the entry point is that emotion tap in and go okay what's what is the belief behind this or what was the trigger behind this or what would I need to believe in order for that emotion to have come to me. And then you can start unpacking it and start working with it a little bit more thoroughly. Yeah, I could have really used this when I was an actress, because well into my from the time I was a child well into my adulthood, addition, addition, addition, and I never knew who was going to show up in my head. Sometimes I would get up there with the script with the music I'm also a singer, and I would just nail it there was something that was like on fire and fears, and there were times I was so caved in on myself. Yeah, very painful it's like it's really a waste of time, in a way, everybody's time, because I'm not going to do a good job but you know so I would book gigs, I would not book gigs and it was always hard to know a little bit about the trigger. What was causing me at those rare but poignant times to not be able to show up fully in my fierceness. Well, what's interesting about that I have done community theater and some well, well versed in the audition process and so something that I would do prior to going on stage is I would talk to my fear response. Because my fear response would start coming out as though I was about to be attacked by a mountain lion. So, you know, heightened sensation sweaty palms, dry throat racing heartbeat, my body is literally preparing for danger. So instead of allowing the narrative in my mind of oh my god what if what if you fuck up your lines what if they don't like you what if they think that your subtext is all wrong or you know, going into that sort of a thought spiral. I would talk to my body and go oh honey, thank you so much for coming to my rescue. Thank you for preparing for danger we're actually not being threatened. We're, we're going to be just fine. We're going to be able to show up powerfully, but I appreciate you always coming to my, you know, coming to my rescue being there for me, and I found that it was an exercise of connecting with where the pain was coming you know that the nervousness was the pain right. And so often we just want to run from that we don't want to feel it we don't want to acknowledge the discomfort. So we just make it stop make it stop. We sink into it a little bit and go okay what's this fear about or what's this experience about one of the, you know, modern iterations of fear is anxiety. You know we have this experience where we have extreme nervousness, and we're, we're feeling as though there's a threat, but it's not as extreme as like the fight flight sort of thing so. And it's really interesting now, looking back at that because I was involved in personal development while I was doing theater and so I had these great tools and and tricks that I was able to kind of impart to, you know, my fellow but yeah it's it's interesting especially in career fields like that we're so much of how we view ourselves is based off of the reception of other people. And we collapse a lot, you know whether or not it's in that sort of a situation or you're starting your own business or you're getting back into the dating scene after hiatus where we go okay as long as I'm accepted. As long as I'm approved of from these various parties, then I must be valuable, then I must be worthy, and we put so much stock in the reception, instead of the intention, how we truly show up. And I think that's one of the biggest shifts that we can make is recognizing, you know, that if we don't book the gig. If we don't book the client if we don't get the venture capitalist if we don't get the marriage or the date or whatever it is that we're searching for that that does not have to mean we're not worthy. It just might mean it sucks right it just might be the human experience of disappointment or sadness or loss, not necessarily what we often do which is collapse it with our worthiness and go that must mean I'm not lovable or I'm not deserving. You bring up people pleasing and you bring up the opinions of others meet mattering so much. And at the same time there's this beautiful word that's really risen these days, I rather like it called sovereignty. I like just the energy that idea of, you know, empowerment over myself within myself, as opposed to all this leakage, going out out there you know what do you think how do you feel you know are you okay is every. And I also want to put one more thing into the soup here for you Amy which is many people listening to the show are extreme sensitives and yes that domain comes being a satellite dish, really being so aware of so much that often you can even delineate between this is mine this is yours this is something going on in the world but I think it's mine. So, how does somebody navigate all of that to try to find their place in the world and and create a space of sovereignty true sovereignty. Well, I, I too love that word I also love the word agency like having agency over your own life. So, I, I did a podcast episode actually a while ago about being a highly sensitive person in a callous world. And what is that like when you genuinely feel what other people feel empathically, or you know if you're an empath or if you're a highly sensitive person which can be all the senses, not just an emotional experience. And what does that look like and I think the easiest way that I can sum it up is to say, first of all, that's a superpower. Absolute superpower. So, in this world, we tend to engage with people who look at emotional intelligence, or the ability to emote the ability to feel as being weak, we make vulnerability synonymous with weakness. And I feel like it's the exact opposite. It is, if you have the courage to show up and emote and be seen for how you feel. I don't know anything more courageous than that. Like that is unbelievable bravery, because everybody else can put up a wall and can, you know, not let people feel or see who they genuinely are. But I liken it a lot to things that sit well with your system, food wise. So if you have a gluten intolerance, you don't keep trying to eat gluten until your body tolerates it. But you also don't sit there and talk shit on gluten all damn day, like about how awful it is right. You just go, Oh, I recognize that this thing in my system is not conducive. Therefore, I distance myself with that. So if you're highly emotive and highly empathic, and you recognize that you're around things that are not conducive to you, whether that's a fast paced work environment, you don't have to talk shit and go like, Oh, I hate. I don't know retail or I hate whatever business it might be or I hate the restaurant industry. You can just go I recognize that I'm not suited for that, because it's such a heightened level of energy that I can't thrive in my superpower in that sort of an environment. And so it becomes a process of radical self care I think is, first of all, acknowledgement and claiming how you operate in this world. But then consistently making decisions based off of what so many people that I've worked with so many women that I worked with, who have said, I thought that the only way I could really show up in this world is to be an extrovert. I had to be gregarious and loud and be around lots of people. And that that deemed me acceptable or worthy like we're talking about earlier. And I've seen so many people recognize and start putting boundaries up and saying, Hey, I'm happy to swing by for an hour to this party or this get together. But after that I'm going to have to go home and recharge and just honor how you operate the best or being vigilant with your calendar. How much you can take on in one day, or around who you can be for an extended period of time, including family. So I think it looks like self care, truly. Yeah, it's interesting hearing you say this and I, your gluten example was good, funny. And it makes sense. Yeah. And my experience is that most people who have wisdom around a very particular niche subject, and an expertise such as yourself. I've had a journey around this wisdom. So I'm curious, were you a people pleaser or did you have issues with speaking up for yourself, what has your experience been around all of this. No, I've always been. I've always been this. Yeah, yeah. No, I think we become teachers after we learn our deepest lessons and so my story is very much rooted in my first family as Brené Brown would call it in my family of origin. So a bit of context, I grew up in a very conservative, born again, evangelical Christian family. My father had a master's in divinity and a doctorate in ministry. So he was not fucking around. And everything so a bit of context as well. So I'm the oldest of three I have two younger brothers and by all accounts I was like the good kid. I started working when I was 14. I put myself through college I got married young moved out of the house very self sufficient. My brothers in contrast, did jail time at very tumultuous youth, sent away to boarding school all sorts of crazy shit. And my mom, however, or my family kind of would lump all three of us together, because we weren't in our adulthood, walking with the Lord or following the religion that we were raised in. So it all kind of came to a head in 07 my father passed away. And I was so much incredibly close with my father he was a really brilliant human. And so the day of my father's service. I had a background in makeup artistry so I did his makeup. I did dead dad makeup that day. Right. Right. So, I feel like I'm winning it daughter. I also felt like because I had that skill set. It would be such an asshole move to be like, Oh dad get you find your own makeup artist. I felt like I felt very convicted that I should be that I wanted to do that and I also spoke to a crowd of hundreds you know he had hundreds of people there. I get back home to my mom's house and she finds it the most opportune time to tell me that she feels as though my father and her had failed as parents, because the three of us were not walking with the Lord, after I had had this day. And the only thing that I could really muster was to say, you probably shouldn't say that to a child. And I'm thinking how many more boxes can I fucking check but I'm not interested in that dogmatic fear and guilt based ideology. And that Debbie was the breaking point that was when I realized that there was a decision to be made around do I put all of my investment in making you happy. Or do I make me happy. And I don't think it's always as definitive as that I don't think it's always as dramatic or an ultimatum is that, but I realized then that if push came to shove I was going to choose me. And prior to that, every time my husband and I would go visit my parents, I, it was a facade. I would say, okay, no Howard Stern, no cussing, no South Park, don't talk about john Stewart don't talk about, you know, drinking smoking cussing none you know and let's just put on this little facade. And that was really kind of when the damn broke, and the trajectory thereafter was rough to say the very least so I became extremely combative, very adversarial. I wanted to fight about stuff I wanted to talk about all the polarizing topics. And I really, it went the extreme opposite and it wasn't until many a breakdown, many a time that I had to apologize to my mom for my delivery of how I said things to her, not for the content not for what I was sharing or what I believed but for how I made it that I realized, oh, you can actually speak up for yourself. You can actually disagree with people about extremely polarizing topics. You can ask for a divorce, you can ask adult children to move out of the house, you can end business partnerships you can do all of these really tough conversations. You can do it with the absolute most grace and kindness, you don't have to be an ass to actually speak up for yourself. And that was the genesis of the work that I do now is is sort of this two part series of the internal component of believing that you actually are worthy and and that your voice is important to be heard that internal piece of believing that, and then the external piece of what the hell does that sound like. Does that sound like to not always acquiesce or anybody out there who's had a child I haven't but people who want to rub your pregnant belly, like those sorts of things that like oh that's a boundary my friend like please don't touch my body. I think what are the words that we use to say I can't make it to your event or I'm not going to do that project. If you're used to acquiescing if you're used to people policing. So that was, that was truly the turning point for me was about 13 years ago 14. Yeah. And so I'm sure, then these 1314 subsequent years has been a lot of continual refinement around this subject. Absolutely. It has been in. It's been also really interesting to look at what what are the stories that people make up you know like we were talking about earlier what's that narrative in the mind. And I think for a lot of people and disproportionately for women, we think that we're responsible for how everybody else feels. And so if there's going to be something that I say that somebody else may not like. I'm responsible to make sure they're okay and to care take for their emotions. So unpacking that changing how I taught about it changing approaches to tough conversations to boundaries to saying no all of those things are that are sort of the antithesis of people pleasing has definitely become fine tuned over the years for sure. I, I really appreciate everything you just said, it has taken me a lifetime to get here with what you're talking about everything from finding my voice to learning how to use it with really good communication skills. I'm just getting my needs met, if that's possible but certainly speaking up for myself and yet having kindness towards others. I think that's, it's a lot of different places to have one's feet. But I want to talk about that for a minute because getting to that point of the effective communication. Yeah, without taking shit is huge so I'm just going to pitch this. I have a very, very good friend she's in her forties. She moved into an amazing house situation with a roommate. And I am getting a lot of phone calls from her about the strife in the household, it's not working out very well. And so when she talks to me about, you know, I'm going to move out. I would have had it once the lease is up and my take was that's awesome but wouldn't it be a kind thing, rather than a blind siding thing to let her know the issues ahead of time speak up for yourself, give her a chance. She can't rectify it great, you've already spoke up, nobody's going to be shocked, you'll move out. But if it can be rectified, what a bonus for both of you. I watched her, strangely navigate these waters because I think for her sometimes being mean is a form of communication. Yes. And so I want to talk like how do you navigate all of that, because there's emotions involved, there's boundaries, plus not to mention what you said and what many people go through childhood wounds and triggers that are popping all over the place. So okay mama take over what would you say to that. There's so many things I want to say first I want to say new trauma kicks up old trauma. So any if she's going through this experience right now and she's feeling a lack of control she's feeling powerless. She's feeling fearful, and it is reminiscent of any other type of relationship, then there's probably some new trauma that's getting kicked up from the past that deserves healing. I think most of the time we don't address it. You know, to your brilliant wisdom to her I think was so spot on. Most of the time we fucking run, because we go this is uncomfortable, make it stop the fastest way is I mean that's why people in dating situations just ghost. I'm like what the hell kind of tactic is this. No, use your words like an adult. In fact, I got with my husband in the 90s because we had pagers. I would not know what to do in this landscape. But so that's one thing is to recognize that are there any patterns of why this is causing you so much strife, and is it reminiscent of anything in your past that you might need some healing around. Another thing that I think is really incredibly important to note is that you need to give people at least the opportunity to be what you need, like you said, and we don't do that we don't speak up just for the hell of it. What you have to recognize is that every time you choose to silence yourself every time you choose to not give voice to something that's problematic for you, you send a subconscious message to yourself over and over and over again that everybody else's wants opinions and needs matter more than yours. It's not just this matter of what we think it is, which is a defense mechanism let me just stay safe so I don't have to deal with this altercation. What you're actually doing is saying, my needs don't matter as much, that's self worth. So that will manifest in your next relationship when you don't speak up with your partner about something that's problematic or with your children or with an overbearing in law, or with somebody in your company who's doing, you know, X, Y or Z. And I tell you or when you know Debbie says, please advocate for yourself speak up it's not just for the fuck of it. It's because of the message that it sends about your own intrinsic value. And it's also messy, and it's uncomfortable, and nobody teaches us. I mean, where do we learn how to communicate family of origin, the media, you know, so you have to search out those tools and, and those teachers and people who are able to say here's how you broach tough conversations here's how you sit down to somebody. And I don't think it's something necessarily that can be super easily rectified. One of the places for everybody listening to check in with is notice the things that you chronically complain about. She chronically complained to you about this person, she's speaking up she's just speaking up to the wrong person. So a lot of times if we're frustrated with somebody in our company, our partner gets near full, or if we're frustrated with our partner, then our mom gets near full, like we're speaking, we're talking about our frustrations but to the wrong people. I want to take a little inventory of, when do I chronically complain about something that I'm not taking action on. That will usually give you an indication of here's where you need to start speaking up for yourself. Ooh, that was a golden nugget I really like that. I want to add a little something to that party. And when I was in my 20s. I lived next door as in a duplex living next door to these amazing lesbian couple I love them they were chiropractors they were probably 1520 years older me than the me they always I would talk to them about everything they always had so much wisdom. God bless them wherever they are for the things they taught me. They told me that I was upset with somebody and they advocated as you said, tell this person, and I'll tell you why. Because Debbie when you tell someone why you're upset it is a gift, whether they choose to unwrap it or not is not your business. Yeah, you're giving yourself the gift of getting this out of your body. That's actually happening, and you're giving them the gift to learn why, because probably in the past. Most people left. Yeah, they didn't stick around long enough to tell them that what was going on. And I started utilizing that. And literally, I would have people say to me was scary I remember at the time that people would say, thank you, because I've had so much abandonment, and nobody is love me enough to tell me what the problem was. Yes. And so I always remember that idea of a gift and the gift of course goes both ways whether things get ironed out or not, at least they're out effective communication has taken place. There's a gift for both. Should you choose to unwrap it. That's right. It's funny. I, I too lived next to an awesome lesbian couple in my 20s. That was a funny. Los Angeles. No, no, in Orange County, Orange County, actually, can you imagine if we were actually neighbors that would have been funny. Well I want to add something to that metaphor around the gift. So I think what we're responsible for, and this is something that I speak about a ton is we're responsible for how that package is wrapped. It's our delivery. That's our body language that's our cadence of voice inflection. So, if that gift is wrapped in shit. That's like you screaming and yelling to get your point across or being passive aggressive, or making jokes about it that's not clear clear is kind. So that wrapping is your responsibility. You don't know if they're going to open it if they're going to what they're going to do with it. So it's about my intention, not the reception so you are responsible for that intention. Am I and what that means is, am I showing up in a way in which I'm proud. I was sharing earlier there was many times when I was communicating with my mom, but I was a cervic. I was biting. I was acrimonious. I was awful. And so I couldn't be heard because that package was wrapped in a bunch of shit. I have since learned how to finesse that packaging to say something to to your example of your friend who's in her situation to say, Hey, you know there's been some stuff that's been on my mind, I would love to toss it around with you. Right, asking for conversational consent. Can we have a conversation I respect you enough to see if you are in a place where we can have a conversation. Then to say, you know, there's been some things that have been on my mind that I can feel myself getting upset about or having some difficulty with. And I have not communicated any of that to you and that is wildly unfair. So, first off, I just, I want to apologize to you that there's been things that that you really deserve to hear. Starting off that's in psychology they called a soft start right like gently easing into this this conversation and then explicitly saying here's how this behavior is landing on my end, not saying you do this and you do this and you're disrespectful and labeling. But to say I've noticed that when these things happen. Here's what happens in my mind. Here's what I make up when I see when I see the shoes left out or when I see dishes not being done. The immediate conclusion that I make in my mind is she doesn't respect me she doesn't care about me. And I don't know if that assumption is entirely fair to you. So, I want to be clear to you about the messages that I'm receiving so that we can clear this up, but who the hell tells us how to talk like that. But I'll tell you what, while you do like that. I literally felt my breath changing my body somatically I was complete shift into this relaxed receptive interested open leaning in that was a great example. Yeah. And, and that's what we're responsible for because a lot of times I'll talk to my students or clients and they'll say, but I have told him, I have told her, I have expressed it and I'm like, how though, how was that package wrapped. Right, so I'm definitely going to be using I use a gift metaphor in a different way so this is completely applicable. But just because you hand somebody a gift wrapped in a bunch of shit does not mean that you've made it receivable for them. And one of the biggest keys around that which I think will be a superpower of the lot of a lot of people listening is the access to vulnerability that it isn't so so death defying that if you can embody vulnerability from that place and start the conversation. I first of all, thank you so much for the time to talk to me and owning your piece in the matter, owning that, you know, maybe there's some stuff that's been going on with me that I need to own that I didn't communicate with you. And just being vulnerable in that, however you show up, you are far more likely to elicit the same emotional current. If you show up super boundary and and aggressive, you're more likely to elicit aggressiveness from somebody else I mean think about if you're driving around or you accidentally cut somebody off, and they start honking and screaming and cussing you out. Our response is typically either to cower, or to match that aggression, right to mimic the emotion. Our response is not to go, you know what, that's a really good point I'm going to start working on that I'm going to change how I drive that never happens. You know what I mean, we go. Oh yeah, you know and we confront. So think about that when you're delivering a conversation. How are you showing up what sort of energy are you embodying because that is what you are likely to elicit. Do you have like great relationships do you have a tribe of amazing friends that you surround yourself with. So you know it's one of the things that I think is a byproduct of being immersed in this sort of an industry and this particular niche is that it keeps me wildly honest. I have gotten to a point now where I am physically pained. If I need to rectify something with someone. If, if I'm bothered by something they said or did if I'm bothered by something I said or did I, I physically can't stifle it and I used to be able to many many years I could just up nothing to see here let's run away let's not address it. And so now it's become the opposite where I physically can't not say anything and what that has yielded is only amazing relationships I'm fortunate to have my best friend is also a life coach and author. And so a lot of our conversations are really ridiculous in the sense of how can I support you the best or is there may offer something or do you not want to hear it you know so we get a little ridiculous about it but yeah my my husband has been together for 24 years and he he says all the time that I taught him how to communicate and so I'm so grateful for that and he's taught me so many things as well. But, you know, from a humble and also incredibly grateful place I can say yes, I do I have incredible people in my life. I also think that the more in touch you become with your own worth. And believing that you deserve to be treated well your bullshit tolerance gets so much less like you just don't tolerate people being awful to you or treating you poorly. It's an amazing byproduct of loving who you are. So part of your journey then Amy has been for it sounds like a lot of self forgiveness recognition and then self forgiveness over the relationship you would establish with your mother after your father coming to terms with that amends for that. And then this confidence you stepped into can you talk a little bit about that arc into forgiveness and then stepping into the confidence and even the, you know really owning authentically who you are. Yeah. Well, as frustrating as it is forgiveness is truly simply a choice. And I think we get locked into the semantics of forgiveness because if we say I forgive myself for how I spoke to someone or if I forgive myself for something I did that that is somehow synonymous with. I'm saying that that was acceptable or that that was okay. I'm condoning the behavior. And that's really a fallacy that's not what forgiveness is it's more so about I choose not to suffer over that any longer. And I recognize that who I was in those small instances is not a compound effect of who I am in the grand scheme of Amy Smith's life. But a lot of times we take a misstep we take a poor relationship we take even a series of poor relationships and we go that must be who I am. Instead of going okay you know what I'm not saying that was okay that I behaved that way I'm not saying that that's okay that that was a decision I made. And I'm also going to say that I'm not going to make myself suffer over that any longer and I'm now going to live into who I do want to be. And it's it's kind of a glasses half full half empty it's the same fucking glass it just depends on how you see it right you can see it as I messed up I messed up I messed up all these things are so horrible, or you can go yeah and I have so much more opportunity to grow and learn and and finesse and change. So, there was definitely a forgiveness arc for sure. And I think one of the things that people don't recognize necessarily about confidence is that it's not a destination, you don't arrive one moment and it's like a bolt of lightning and you're like Teta, I'm confident. Because a lot of times we think as soon as I get this business off the ground or as soon as I have this many followers or as soon as I have this partnership or somebody loves me or whatever it is, then I'll be confident. But what we don't understand is the bridge from where you are now to being a confident person is engaging with fearful obstacles over and over again from a place of courage. We cannot have courage without fear so let's be thankful for that those moments when we're scared to speak up, or when we're not sure if we're deserving of something. It's not that those instances stop it's that we engage with those instances from a place of power, and we don't let the fear when we choose to operate from courage. So it's instance after instance of being scared to speak up for myself, instance after instance of reckoning with that inner critic telling me that I'm not deserving or I'm not worthy over and over and over again. It's brought me to this place of confidence. It's not a magic pill, and it's also never over. So you don't ever, you know, get to a point where you are of supreme health where you've taken all of the vitamins, you've done all of the workouts and you've done all the doctor visits and you are now good. The same happens with our emotional and spiritual self. You don't care take for it to a point where you're fixed, or I'm done. You can contain it. You learn how to engage with hardship from a different place from a place of power. Yeah. What is it like to work with you what kind of thing to offer to people is it group or privates or how does that work. I'm going to be clear about something probably about three years ago or so I've been I've been doing this for about 15 and about three years ago, I discontinued all of my products, all of my programs, all of the small little home studies, or one off sessions or things like that and I decided that I only wanted to work in massive transformation. I had curated a program in 2015 that I have since finessed quite a bit. And it's called deep down and dirty. And essentially what that is is about a four month process it's a group program. And it is essentially about noticing the behavioral manifestations of lack of self worth so what that looks like typically if we don't believe that we're enough if we don't believe that we are worthy. We turn to things like perfectionism. I have to be flawless over achieving people pleasing constantly being investment in and what other people think chronic self doubt like there's all these manifestations that underneath all of that is our relationship with ourselves like do we believe in our own intrinsic value. So that's what the entire program is about it's about reckoning with that changing your disempowering beliefs, and then identifying who you are so the middle portion is about really excavating your identity who do I want to be in this world. And then the final portion is now how do I relate that to the outside world that's all the communication stuff standing up for yourself, you know saying no boundaries etc. And throughout all of that are a ton of different modalities and also a hypnotherapist so there's a lot of hypnosis that we do in there. I'm an NLP and EFT practitioner as well. Lots of lots of things. Yeah, like, give me all the hippie shit let's let's do it all. And, but I do think that there's so many ways that so many entry points and so many vehicles to help rewire that subconscious narrative that that we're not enough. So that is it that is the, the main way to work with me and if you're interested at all in what my work looks like you can go to the joy junkie.com slash workshop and I have a workshop that kind of chronicles five major shifts that you would need to do to start unraveling that and then at the end you see an invitation to talk to a member of my team if you want to look at the right ass kick you as I look to say. Cool, the sound got a little wonky there but but I appreciate that and it sounds like Amy you might be saying it's a one year program is this like a master class master workshop with you for a year. It's actually four months and and yeah so I'm not I'm not sure where that cut off but yeah your your first place to to go would be to watch that complimentary workshop and people usually can tell really quickly either oh yeah that's me or I know I don't think that's really where I'm at. But I do talk a lot in that workshop about about why just accumulating a bunch of self help might not be actually changing the wiring in the mind and the role of the subconscious so. So that's really sort of the, the place to start is to go go have a watch through that workshop and then. I want to talk about deep down and dirty there's an opportunity to do that at the very end, an invitation to talk to a member of my team. And yeah, yeah, so it's so that was joy junkie.com slash workshop for those who missed that. And what about you Amy what do you do every day that grounds you that centers you is there a ritual or a practice that you like to use. Yes, absolutely. And one little side note it's the joy junkie. I've been trying, I've been trying to get joy junkie for 15 years but too expensive, the joy junkie.com slash workshop. So yeah you know one of my absolute favorite grounding pieces is, I do hypnosis every single day. And that will be on a different topic. As in self hypnosis. Sometimes I do self hypnosis but I have an app that I absolutely love. I also have stuff that I've pre recorded for myself, and I just create my own audios. And I do that always as I go to sleep we pass through hypnosis naturally anyway as we go to sleep. So it's a perfect time to access the subconscious. And I do gratitudes every morning, and allow myself to really think from more of a meta view versus a micro view we get so stuck in the minutia of what's bothering us at the moment and so I try to really stand back and look at what makes me so happy. I just love that I think from a sensory place. I like really, really strong smells for whatever reason. So I get these incense sticks that are seriously, like almost like, almost a yard long they're giant, and they burn for hours so. So yeah, a couple of practices there. Yum. And for people who are saying well how do I even know what to know or what to yes, I'd like to respond I'd like to establish boundaries but I don't even really understand inside of me. I also think a piece of this sometimes could be that fear of missing out that could be not always but it could be a huge proponent of not knowing. So how do we know our definitive yes our definitive no so we know what to stand behind in order to respond. I think that varies in every single situation and that that I also think is one of the most difficult pieces of personal development to access, because it's rooted in intuition, and intuition is something that our society by nature does not glorify it, it pulls towards logic reason academia. It's not. It, you know, and at least for me from having such a religious upbringing. I was taught that I couldn't rely on myself that I couldn't rely on my own intuition. And that I believe is our own internal God, you know that's our own internal compass it's our, our divinity, we already have it innately. But it gets bred out of us in a lot of ways. So I think one of the places to start about what is a yes or what is a no for me is to start paying attention to your body cues. You you embodied that beautifully earlier when we started talking and you had a sense that came over you. When I talked about a demonstration of here's how you can communicate. If you listen to what the body is doing. It's always giving you a message. But it's up to us to start finessing that interpretation and that feels clunky at first. There's a great. I guess it's a metaphor that Martha Beck uses which is shackles on shackles off. So does this situation does, let's say, saying yes to this business venture. Does this feel constricted and like shackles on like I'm, I'm restricted and can't move type of fear. Or is it shackles off like this is fear but it's kind of exciting and this could be kind of amazing. And you know I like to call that scared sighted. So, because there's going to be fear both ways there's going to be fear if it's good there's going to be fear if it's bad. So you have to tap in and go okay does this feel like I'm diving into a pool of fresh water and it's going to be electrifying, or does it feel like I'm going to dive into mud. So starting to use some of those sensory notions can help you start tapping into what I think is the sixth sense of the intuition that gets kind of bred out of us. But then being gentle with that, because that's something that we hone that's something that we tune, just like any other skill set. It's just atrophied. It's not gone. It's not gone. That's interesting. So, I hear you saying basically the body has wisdom. Sure. And if we will learn to start there that connection. It has a tremendous amount of information for us, and as our best guidance system, developing that. So we think back to the gluten metaphor, right. If you eat something that doesn't sit well with your system, you don't keep eating it until you stomach it, you don't keep forcing it, you recognize, Oh, wow, this, this doesn't feel good to my body. We can do that with a business venture. We can do that with a partnership or an in law, or should this should I make this decision to go out tonight. I have another lovely little tool that I use. Have you ever used a pendulum, like to swing a pendulum to tap into the subconscious. If anybody out there, if you're ever wondering, what do I really want on a subconscious level. You can use something that's called the idiomotor response. So if you hold a pendant or a necklace, you, however, whatever you have. But if you hold a necklace that has a charm or something with a little bit of weight, you can ask it, show me yes. It will do a specific type of movement, a circle or a back and forth. You can say show me no sometimes it holds completely still, or sometimes it'll circle whatever but you get a gauge of what yes and no is. What that is it's not anything miraculous it's just the way in which the subconscious mind communicates with the body in voluntarily. It's how Ouija boards work, right. It's that it's a the idiomotor response that's moving your body without your conscious faculty of the mind being clear about it. So what that means is we can ask the subconscious what it truly wants what it really wants or where you are on a subconscious level. So then you can say, do I really want to go out today. Do I really want to date this person. Do I really want to start this business. Do I really want, whatever, and then you can get a gauge of what's happening on your subconscious. Now it does not always mean that it's the right answer or the end all be all answer, because for instance, if I asked some of my students when they first start with me. When I asked them to do that and they asked it the question, do I believe that I am worthy. It would probably say no. So that doesn't necessarily mean like okay good that's the right answer. It means that's where your subconscious is at the moment, but it helps us tap in when we do what I like to call the cognitive override. So when I get into that space of, well I should go to this thing or I should volunteer for that over there or I, what I can't let that person down but do I really want to go I don't know. I kind of do it's kind of a good opportunity, and we're in logic and reason we're in the conscious faculty, cognitive override, where we're we're overriding our intuition we're overriding our emotions are feelings and just going into. How can I make everybody else happy basically, or what makes the most logical sense, but then you if you tap into that subconscious using that tool you can kind of go okay here's what I really want in this instance right now. Beautiful. Yeah, what are you next year to dream. What are your future dreams and goals Amy. Well, I think most immediate on the horizon is I need to get a book out into the world which I know that that you're quite, quite an authority on. So I have a proposal that's nearly completed so I'd like to secure an agent and get that shop to publishers that's the next big, big thing on the horizon and I'm making it you know I know we chatted a little bit before we recorded. There's been a lot of changes to my team and my staff and how we are getting my work out into the world and changing some things with my podcast and so there's lots of moving pieces but I feel really, I feel really good about the trajectory and all the dreams. And I think change your spot on. If I almost feel like if someone's not in flux right now. It doesn't make sense the whole world is in flux but we're coming into a whole newness a whole world I feel a great possibilities for where we could head. And for those of us who are this conscious and aware. I think we are all up leveling. I know I feel the drum beat myself in my business without a doubt. We're ready you right on time. Well I think it's, you know if we think about the concept of there's always a breakthrough from the breakdown you know we've had. We've had a collective trauma and breakdown over the last year plus that has been so devastating on on many different levels, depending on on where you are in the world. And so much grief that we've had to go through. And I think from those places it's really funny to watch because I feel like once we initially had shut down and locked down. The, everybody's first instinct was, I'm going to learn how to bake bread. I'm not going to deal with with my mother father wound. I'm not going to deal with my inner shit that I need to unpack. Let's learn how to bake bread, and then progressively as we still got stuck in this trauma and it's still no site of the ending. Then people started going you know what, I think I am going to increase my therapy a little bit, or you know what I think I am going to start healing some of my religious trauma. I'm going to get so I'm going to do some hypnotherapy right you know and so I think people have started to do some of the deeper work that they've been avoiding because they're just alone with their thoughts. And so I'm encouraged by that I'm encouraged by that awakening that I think is happening. And I think we're also be so much more grateful of our human connection and communing with one another of just the connection that we're able to elicit from one another. Yeah, I'm excited about that, for sure. I am so glad you came on the show today thanks for giving us the tough low down and all the possibilities and for embodying that on your journey Amy E Smith. I'm grateful you were here. Oh, me too. Thank you so much Debbie. And if you guys would like to learn more her free workbook or workshop go to the joy junkie calm slash free and for her workshop the joy junkie calm slash workshop. And I end today show with this quote from Andrew Matthews. We see self love means we have no compulsion to justify to ourselves or to others, why we take vacations, why we sleep late, why we buy new shoes, why we spoil ourselves from time to time. We feel comfortable doing things which add quality and beauty to life. So subscribe to the dare to dream number one weekly transformation conversation. We've been on air, going on 14 years. Next week's guest is Dr. Morgan Oaks he's traveled the world to learn to be a shaman. He's an international transformational teacher, whose passion is inspiring people to trust their intuition and cultivate the courage to take heroic action. Thanks for listening to this podcast and you'd like to see myself and my guests. Please go to YouTube.com slash Debbie dashinger. Remember, don't just dare to dream, dare to turn all your dreams into your reality.