 If you look at some of these major label artists and how they break specifically R&B and pop, you will find that artists like Daniel Caesar, Givvyon, Blast, their top 5-10 countries are always Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines. The currency in the Philippines is called a peso. One dollar in the U.S. is 50 pesos. The value of the dollar spreads farther in countries like that. Just in general, as you're going to find that international ads to countries that really like western music like the Philippines will stretch further. What's up? What's up? What's up? I'm Brandon Shawn. And I'm Cory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you stream your podcast here at the intersection of creativity and currency. And as you know, on No Labels Podcast, we love to bring you guests who have taken their own journey. There's no labels to the journey, but there's a lot of value that you can get from it. Today, we have a special guest, a very emotional moment. Having my guy, Adrian Malanio, one of the first artists we started working with. He was in college early on. He's done millions of streams. And the last, well, he popped off this year, about four million streams on Spotify, 100% indie grinding. He runs ads. He does influencers. He started hiring his own team. Looking forward to getting into that. Adrian, what's up, my guy? Peace and blessing you, Shawn. Cory, how y'all doing? Pretty good, man. No hard complaints. No hard complaints. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Good to be here. So let's start off here. Before we get into the technical things, because you are one of those artists who took courses, watched YouTube videos, learned the game. He's an R&B artist, by the way. You've done all that technical stuff you have that, but before we get into the campaigns you've done for yourself, accomplishments, talking to labels and all that, being in college and deciding that I want to be an artist. Did you know that going into college, by the way? Or was it a decision you made while you were there? I had the aspirations, but the means on how I was going to do it. I had no idea, to be honest with you. Okay. So in that space, did you one day just flip and say, I'm going to figure this out? Or did you just start looking up on YouTube? What was the process for you? Sure, I'll hear you. So I'm going to backtrack to when I was in high school. So that was probably when my interest in music started to take form. So for me, I started having the passion to do music in terms of writing songs and that sort of thing. And then college, I definitely wanted to take that to the next level, but I didn't know how. So a lot of it was just like, what I saw at the time was a lot of YouTube cover artists. And I think from 2012 to 2015, 2016, kind of like from high school transition to college, that was a lot of like the people that I was looking up to basically were doing it at the time. And I was trying to figure that out. But the cover artist stuff didn't really make sense to me in terms of like, I felt like I had so much value to bring beyond just singing someone else's song. I just didn't even think that putting stuff on Spotify at the time was even a possibility. So kind of just found my way to it. Like, well, started off with SoundCloud and I was able to start growing from there. And it was very much an organic thing. And I think at the back of my mind, I've always wanted to be an artist or what I perceived to be an artist. I just didn't know exactly what it looked like. Like, is it me going to Hollywood or LA? Is it me being in New York? And at that time, I didn't really have any mentorship. It was mostly just like, I'm gonna figure this stuff out. And I'd say like, yeah, for sure, you like definitely looked up YouTube videos. I got creative. And one thing I'll say about myself is that I've always been able to find ways to get to where I want to go, even if it's unconventional. I'll give you an example. So in college, I did my first two year college in high school. So in Washington state, there's this program called Running Start. It allows you to get your first two years of college paid for in high school. And one of the things I did, because my parents obviously wanted me to go to college and wanted me to pursue this stuff, because my college tuition was paid, I was able to slide in an audio production class and vocal lessons and that sort of thing. I started to get my feet wet in terms of learning how to produce myself. So I had that avenue of learning just through the classroom, just being in the conventional traditional studio, being able to get my first couple of opportunities recording, and then even having my own set up. So I like to view things from a holistic standpoint, where I'm learning things in a classroom setting, academic setting. But as much as that has the potential to be useful, a lot of the stuff I have learned too is me doing it, hands on, boots on deck, just really getting my hands dirty in terms of just being a part of that. So a lot of that was just going on Google and figuring stuff out. One of the videos that I stumbled across in my first kind of understanding of music beyond the glitz and glamour was your channel. So I remember at that time you had probably less than 2,000 subscribers and I think the first video I ever watched from you was the Seven Ways That Chance Wrapper blew up. And that was one of the videos where I was like, who is this rammy-ass strong guy? You know, that was honestly what I was thinking at the time. I remember at this point in my life, after I graduated from the college, I went to in high school. I had all these aspirations of going to like, there's a school in Washington called UW, University of Washington, Seattle. I didn't get in. I felt like my self-esteem was kind of low but I ended up learning a lot being at home. So I saved a lot of money and I had a lot of free time because a lot of my friends just during that time moved away from school and that sort of thing. And for me I had a lot of free time to kind of just like figure out, okay, like, do I want to record in my room? What's the difference between recording my room versus recording in a traditional studio and like, how do I get my music out there? And at that time I thought the only thing you really needed was talent. And I think a lot of artists kind of, they kind of start out that way, but you know, just like watching your first few videos you kind of had, to me they were like PowerPoints in a way. Like, literally PowerPoints, you know? So honestly, there's probably a notebook in my room just me writing stuff down because I'm so used to like our amateur notes from what I think is important. You know, you're breaking down like a lot of concepts to me. I was just like, people are really doing this like independently. And I think in 2016 like independence was just starting to become more mainstream in a sense of like, that's when Russ signed his deal. That's when Chance Rapper was like the first artist to chart, I think, through just streaming alone. And I think I kind of caught on to like, okay, this guy is like putting out a lot of value. And I think that's how I booked my first call with you. I think I had a consultation with you where we were on the call and you were bringing stuff down. And honestly, me being like a level one artist at that time, anything you would have given me would have been very, very helpful. So yeah, just like being in the classroom and then getting creative with like, all right, like if I have free college tuition, let me go run some plays and like, let me go take vocal lessons. Let me go get in a recording studio. Let me learn how to do stuff from the recording studio, take it home. You know, now I'm starting to like buy stuff from pawn shops and like, scrapping up money, going to guitar stand to use. Honestly, like what I'll do, like one of the things I always knew how to do was just like research stuff. So like maybe I go to guitar center not to buy, but just to check it out, just to see what something looks like in person. I'll buy that shit online. A lot cheaper, you know, like 10, 50% cheaper, whatever. But honestly, like just like having the experiences of learning online, learning in the classroom and then learning through quite literally trial and error, that's probably how I would say like, I've like grown to be where I'm at now. And that's, that's just like a drop in the ocean throughout like my whole journey. So if you want me to elaborate more. That's perfect. That's perfect. It's pretty holistic process, every single point of that. And you can feel it in terms of like how much knowledge you have at the time. Was there any frustration that you experienced in terms of like not blowing up or getting the momentum that you wanted to? Yeah, I think I felt that in a lot of capacity. So being from like Tacoma, Seattle area, what music is I think traditionally known for there are like the historical stuff. So I'm talking things like Pearl Jam, Soundgate, Chris Cornell, Nirvana, Jimi Hendrix. So like that lineage of music is very prominent in Seattle. And then they will also produce these one-offs. We're talking Macklemore, Little Mosey, you know, those sort of artists where it's not really a cohesive sound. And I think me trying to integrate myself into that, I don't rap, I sing, right? So like trying to find inspiration of R&B in Washington, there wasn't really a footing for it. And a lot of the people that were in the area were like, I call them like OGs or old heads that are like, they have like a very traditional way of like getting success in the music industry. So I'm either trying to insert my success in the vision of someone that has maybe had success 10, 15, 20 years ago at this time. Or I'm trying to integrate myself into a scene that doesn't really understand what R&B music is like, because there's not a lot of prominent R&B in the Tacoma, Seattle area. So like me just kind of feeling displaced. Like I didn't get into the school that I wanted to get into trying to make this music. And I think I'm kind of good at it, but like, I don't really know who my audience is. I don't know like who I'm speaking to. You know, a lot of that stuff is just me honestly just kind of figuring it out and soul searching as much as I was trying to figure that out in music. I was also trying to put footing into the world in terms of bringing value to like what I feel like I can bring value to. And I just didn't know at the time. So definitely means it was a part of just like not feeling I had a space to fully long quite yet was pretty much like the bigger picture of all that I'd say. Okay. So one of the most important things that artists have to realize if you truly become a brand, then everybody that buys from you no longer has to be a fan. I know that sounds mind boggling. You have people buy from you who support your career, who support your movement that aren't even fans. But the truth is regular businesses do this every single day. And that's how we had this realization that we then began to capitalize off of with our artists. And if you want to see this for yourself, I'll show you for completely free. If you go to www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize, you have to put in www and if you're on YouTube, you can find it in description somewhere. So just go there and I'll show you the massive paradigm shift that we had that allowed us to start to help our artists monetize their audience way faster while increasing the amount of people that they can monetize at the same time. So basically a lot more money, you know what I'm saying? So check it out www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize while it's completely free to check out back to the conversation. So let's talk lucky then. Got you. This year has done millions of streams all you. As a matter of fact, I want to get it to even the process like a blowing it up from the beginning, right? That was all you. I know you ran ads for it. You know, I know you and took allowed us to help out with some of the influencers, but I want to hear your thought process from day one because you didn't even drop it last year. Wasn't it out about two, three years? 2021 or 2020? Yeah, 2022. So when you first dropped it, did you know it was something special or did you revisit it all of a sudden at the end of last year? Just because you're like, man, I want to see what it looks like because I really believe in this song. What was the process? I got you. So let me backtrack to like making this song because even the song actually came out in 2020, but I had that song for about two years before I even dropped it. So like, I went to a party the next day I got sick and I had like this strep throat raspy sort of like tone and I still had like this beat that I had and I wanted to record to it. Like, one of the things I learned in an audio engineer class is like, you want to even track like your first takes or like your scratch tape because you never know if that's going to be the one that sticks. So as like taking that advice, like I was just basically recording the song that I kind of had was like an idea. I was sick and my thought process was like, I'm record this when I feel better. So like, I recorded it, let it go, like a week later, try to re-record it. And I think technically it was better, but it didn't feel the way that it did the first time. So I was like, you know what, even though this scratch takes a little bit messier than what I hope to be because it sounds raspy and the tone isn't there, I'm going to keep it because I feel like this is like a thing where it's going to stick. So I had that song, I recorded that in January 2019 and then I released that song fall of 2020 and this was like a few months into the pandemic. I'm like trying to make like, it wasn't even really about algorithmic stuff or anything like that. It was just like, let me just release this stuff and just see what happens. It got on one editorial, which was pretty cool. It got on, I think, New Music Friday in Indonesia, which I also still didn't really understand at the time like, okay, like these Asian countries are starting to pay editorials for me. Like, I'm not really sure what that's about, but the song kind of had a little bit of a spike with the editorial, went away. In 2021, I wanted to shoot more content and one of the things I wanted to do was like shoot a music video, too lucky. And honestly, that was also practice too. So in my whole mind, like the process was very in a way organic and almost by accident. Because like in my mind, I'm like, this song isn't really like anything, especially me, I recorded a sick, but like, I think whenever I played it to like my friends or people, they're like, this song is really good. And this song speaks to me. So fast forward to 2021, where after I shoot the music video and we start working the campaigns, like, I'm like, all right, I kind of want to run ads to it. I run ads to it. And like, I got the ad cost down to about less than five cents. So four and a half cents. And kind of tiring and broad and like looking at where the data was coming from. A lot of it was from what they call in chart metrics trigger cities. So we're talking Jakarta, Indonesia, Bangkok, Thailand, Manila, Philippines. And I'm like, okay, like, I have like this audience here that really resonates with this music. Let's try some influence or stuff, you know, and I think the first big spike, the first big spike was what is that animation page that was a palatism, something like that? Was it that one? It was like a lot of natural animations, right? So like that was the first big spike where as soon as that post went up, I remember like the streams jumped from maybe a few hundred streams a day to about two to three thousand streams a day. And I'm like, okay, I think I have something here. So let me run this ad a little bit more aggressively. So early 2022, I saw that charting in Thailand charted in like the viral 50. And I'm like, it started off of like $30 an ad spend a day. Like that's crazy to me. So I was basically trying to find an excuse to push Lucky even further. And I already had this new content coming out. So Lucky is actually on an album called where you want to go. But where you want to go to me is kind of a collection of songs I just had at the time. It wasn't really thematic. And I don't think that it really represented who I was as an artist in 2023 and 2022. The thing is though, is like if the dad is telling you something that it's working, it doesn't really matter when it came out or how long ago it was made. And you have this one saying that you made in your early journey of brand man network where you were like, good content doesn't die, it only goes to sleep. So this is going through my head. I'm running these ads. Of course, they're laughing like, I'm not running these ads. This is an influence campaign. It's charting in Thailand. And I'm like, basically my part of the reason why I wanted to release an album this year is I wanted to have an excuse to push Lucky again. It's going to contain new music that if I had to fall back on something different that I think I can push, but I still have this smoking gun piece of content that I think I really want to work on and push in scale. So when the album came out, I pitched a different song off the album. All the editorials that got pitched or that I got placed for was actually of Lucky. So I kind of had like this big moment where Lucky was like blowing up through like a lot of the ads, the influencer campaigns that we were doing. So we were doing a cover art, a cover musician campaign. Let's slow that down because these are all like separate elements. One, I got you these editorials you pitched. That's again, you're indie artists. This is just that regular through the DS like a, you know, distro kid, you got distro kid. Distro kid, you pitched the Spotify just like any artist would do. But obviously you knew this song was good. Right? I missed something. You re-released the song. You took it off the Spotify and re-released it. How'd you pitch it when it was already out? All right. So this is how it came out. So in 2020, I had an album that came out. Lucky was on the album, but it wasn't a hit at the time. So, and there's this saying like you can only pitch one song to editorials at a time that, and you can't re-release a song and pitch it on editorials. Right? So like me knowing that, I was like, okay, I'm gonna pitch this song that I think has potential to be on an editorial. They didn't pick that song at all. So like, I saw that Lucky got placed on the editorials instead of the song I pitched, which didn't make sense to me. Well, it kind of made sense to me because I think they saw how organically well it was moving. And these editorial curators from Taiwan, Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines, they were placing on their editorials and I can see the list of all the editorials. So they put it on there. You never even pitched Lucky specifically. I didn't pitch Lucky when I dropped this album in 2023. Right. You know, and that was something that was creating me because like they say like, you can't re-upload the same song and pitch on editorials. So that's how I know that there are people that are really looking at stuff because like in theory, like if I can't get an editorial for a song that's already out and it still happened anyway, that's like someone's got to like push the button manually for that, you know. So it ended up getting on a lot of editorials and they ended up getting a lot of love the first probably month that I re-released this song in an album. Right. So the concept of the album was to put out music that I feel represents me more and to build a moment around Lucky. Like I have all these songs, here's his hit piece that I have, it's Lucky. Like this is like the song that I want to push and when it's time for me to transition into the next thing, I have this album that can work. Yep. So then we got the editorials and the other side of it is the ads. Yep. You were running like very cheap for a second. What was it like $5? $10 a day for how long? Probably for about six months and then there are times in 2022 where I would scale it to about $30 a day, $40 a day to hit about $1K a month and like I saw that I tried in Thailand off of that and what's crazy is I remember talking to Corey and telling him like there's this guy that reached out to me that wanted me to write a song for a big artist in Thailand called Nut2Nut and he found me through one of the ads that I think Corey was running at the time. I was a music video ad and he reached out and he was like, we really like your song Lucky, like we want you to write this song for this artist that we have. So he sent me a video, the manager, Dano and then I looked at the video and the artist had like 40 million streams on the video. I'm like, you want me to write this? And I'm like taking a call early in the morning because Thailand is about I think 13 or 14 hours from where I'm at and like they think that I'm like in a studio. I'm like quite literally in my room like, hey, how y'all doing? It's late, like nice to meet y'all. And they're trying to explain like we want you to write a song that feels like Lucky. I was like, okay, so I ended up writing a song for them and like they're super great and I got connected out there and the song that I wrote for the album, the album's called Cigarette Candy Vanilla Sky and it ended up winning album of the year through like their version of like the Grammys out in Thailand. So the thing that's so interesting to me is like even though I have like my own music, I know that I also have a lot of value in either communicating with people or writing for other artists. And one thing that I was saying earlier, I was like, man, like all these people in my Southeast Asia really rock with my music. Like I don't even really know like what this means. What I'm starting to find is that their version of pop, like the genre is just R&B, like in terms of elements and that sort of thing. And they really like themes of love, romance, heartbreak. And that stuff that organically, like this is not about an algorithm, just organically, like that's the type of stuff I write about, you know, like my dad really put me onto a lot of this stuff that he was listening to that I think I have like that also a heart, not just in my music, but my personality. And I'm able to kind of have that be modern. And one of the studies I saw, so I majored in psychology is that the music that we appreciate as people is often influenced by the the generations before us. And that to me, even on an anecdotal level makes sense. But just the themes of like love, romance, heartbreak, you know, lucky is in that same sort of vein. And I think just that type of feel for them is just like, that is what people get down to out there. You know, I quite literally see people with the music of like the song Lucky where they're like outside romance and at a coffee shop. And that is what they're that's how they get down out there. So like, I saw my dad earlier. And he's basically talking about like these YouTubers in the Philippines that are making money. And I'm trying to explain to him like, yeah, they probably have endorsements and like, you know, like AdSense and all this stuff. And like, he's trying to explain like the stuff that they're doing the video I was doing in the 80s. And I wasn't making any money off it. I'm like, and he's like quite literally they're outside, like, you know, tropical weather, like, they're holding hands and like, a lot of like the, like the forest that I see of people are like, they're very much so like in nature. And they're the videos are literally like them holding hands outside and join nature to like the chorus of like my song. And that was like a theme I saw. And just me kind of like dissecting like what's the most popular stuff there and talking to some people that understand Southeast Asian culture, the themes of like romance and intimacy. And I love you so much. And like, endearment, that is what people resonate with the most, you know, and I feel like that's something that's so fascinating to me where I feel like American music or the culture around American music is based off height or perception. You don't necessarily have to make good music is subjective. But there in Southeast Asia, you can't like be a singer and not sing, that makes sense. So I think just like in America, you can build a persona around someone's like personality and style and brand. Whereas there, if you can't sing, it doesn't really matter. You know, I lived out in London in college for a term. And out there, they were able to bring American rock bands that you and I would never heard of. But they can sell out shows because they know that the talent there speeds volumes. Not saying talent isn't valued in the States, but me experiencing culture abroad. And then also seeing it in the demographic that enjoys the music I make, really, there's like, I really legitimately think there's like a there's a value to like the talent of itself. Yeah. So so how does that affect your your overall growth strategy? Right? Like you're here in the States, you're making your real life moves in the States, but you're seeing a lot of these Southeast Southeast Asian countries like taking to your music. Is that affecting like your strategy moving forward and how you're building yourself out? Or what's your plan on merging those worlds? For sure. So like what I find fascinating when I explain to artists when I do consultations that stuff is like, I literally think I have two different demographics and I play a different game and different rules for each demographic. So if you if you look at some of these major label artists and how they break specifically R&B and pop, you will find the artists like a Daniel Caesar, Givion, Blas, their top five, 10 countries are always Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Brazil, Spain. So they'll take those numbers in general and build those numbers up, take it back here. I find that a lot of like the R&B stuff here gets pushed there first. And then they take those numbers and they bring them back here. And I kind of have the same strategy where it's like, my music naturally resonates in these countries as well. Let me go run my ads there. So like, I have about 30, 40,000 Instagram followers right now. I want to say probably 60 to 70% honestly are international. And those countries like Indonesia, Brazil, Philippines, Thailand. So that's like one sort of like marketing strategy. And because I'm growing in that way, people in the States are going to see anyway too, right? So it's like, if you have 40,000 followers, you have 40,000 followers, you know, people don't have the the lens to understand the demographic of like, where are these followers really coming from? You know, maybe they can tell like, Oh, something's fake or whatever. But like in terms of knowing who these people are, they don't think that far. But that is like one strategy that I have. And the second strategy I have is a little bit more grassroots. And kind of like moonlighting my way to opportunities. So like, I could theoretically run ads says coma or Seattle, but I don't need to because like, I'm out like, I'm out policy, policy can maneuvering and that sort of thing. Like you're going to catch me into coma at the block parties. You're going to catch me at ETC Tacoma shout out ETC Tacoma. And all these places where people are naturally going to pop you like any of the city council means like I'm just naturally out there. I think just organically being like a good person and being proximity to people where that you can, there's one thing like seeing somebody on Instagram doing their thing, but actually getting to meet them in real life is just so different. You know, and I think like I want to bring a lot of value to people organically where when I have a new release, I have like my tribe internationally that will rock with me. But I also have my grassroots people in like Tacoma, Seattle that also organically like rock with me too. And what I'm starting to find, especially for touring is that a lot of the colleges right now are pushing like quote unquote diverse acts or they just want to get new people on board where you know, a lot of these like bigger schools, like I was just out in, you know, Detroit, not that long ago, East Lansing where I was playing at Michigan State. A lot of these D one schools will have budgets to be able to bring somebody out. And that's something that I got my first opportunity to fly out to Dallas in 2020, ironically, during the pandemic, it was Texas. So like go figure, right? But you know, just like knowing that I could do that based off of like what I had, my numbers were strongly based internationally, but I can take those numbers and build here too, right? Like someone is going to see like, okay, he's making this type of music, he's growing this type of amount. Oh, he lives in like Tacoma, Seattle, like from Dallas is a three, four hour flight, Detroit three, four hour flight. So kind of like my strategy has been, I wanted to go to NACA this year. And the reason why I wanted to go to NACA was I wanted to build kind of like repertoire with a lot of those people out there. And I kind of came to the conclusion that like, you know, honestly, I can build these relationships organically just feeding my content through ads and getting it to reach the people here. Can you explain what NACA is real quick for people who don't know? NACA is where you can go to get booked. If you're like an entertainer or an artist or magician or whatever talent you have, you can go and pitch yourself and network with these colleges. Each region of the US has their own sector. And then there's like a main sort of spot for like the for NACA. And my plan this year was like, all right, I'm going to do NACA on the West Coast. It's in Riverside this year. But I was starting to get these opportunities. Like some of them aren't fully confirmed yet, but like I have certain schools that are reaching out that they want me to bring, they want me to come out for their homecoming that's happening in the fall. You know, MSU had a headline, they called a Hala Hala event, which is like a dessert in Filipino culture, but they have an event that's kind of like their end of the year celebration. They bring out a Filipino artist every year. So if I'm like already starting to play those shows, I'm playing local college shows in Washington state. I'm like, man, I spend the money to invest in NACA. You know, like I'm already starting to get this stuff here. Let me just see what I can do with what I have right now. And then if I really wanted the scale, I can. And what I find so funny is like two or three years ago, I really wanted stuff like this. And what I find in the trajectory of my career and my life, the things that I always want usually happen two to three years later than when I really wanted it to happen. And by the time it does happen, I've already kind of experienced what that opportunity is like, where I know how to manage it. Because like the first time I ever flew, I was like, you know, this is crazy. Like I'm flying out. I'm flying out. And you got to think, like I come from like humble roots, like, you know, I've been an introverted kid my whole life. I didn't know that music was possible as a career. I'm like, you want to take me out? Like, are you sure? Like, is this a scam? Like whatever. And now that it's starting to happen more frequently for me now, I'm getting paid. If I wasn't getting paid, I'd be like, and like, I couldn't do it. But I'll tell you, at 18, 19, I probably would have just because like at that time, like I just wanted to be like noticed and quite honestly, like just validated in terms of like, this is something that I think I want to do, but I'm not sure. Right. And kind of just going through like my own journey, like, you know, there's this quote I came across that kind of like put together and it's like, don't ask permission from the world what it is you're meant to do. And that's like a reminder to myself to like, whenever there's something that's happening where I'm down in myself or I'm like unsure of like what it is I'm doing, I always try to fall back on like, what's important to me? You know, as much as music is like something I'm good at, I know I can sing. My real purpose and passion is within people. I'll give you an example, like if I was a chef, I would probably find a way to use my cooking to relate and connect with people. But I just how happened to sing, I'm happened to be able to leverage like my ability to sing and make music to be able to get opportunities to perform or to work with other artists. And you know, like if I didn't have that sort of value, I don't know if we would be talking right now, you know, transparently. So just for me, like to fall back on knowing like, there's a reason why I'm doing this, like that sometimes will get me through like the days where like, I'm like exhausted or stressed out or the days where I'm still trying to figure stuff out. Because even though maybe I'm at a higher level now than I was at 19, it's like the more doors are open, like the more doors that I find that are also locked, and I got to like open those doors too, you know, so it really is like a process for me to kind of go through it with just like knowing that I can scale internationally, and then I can scale here where I'm based. That's been my strategy really for like building out my kind of like the way that I'm doing stuff and people think like, oh, I got to go on tour. You can, but like for me, like the doors naturally there open for me to play these college shows where like these 18 or 19 year old kids at D1 school, they got budgets to blow, that money is there, it's already paid for. You know, if it doesn't get used for an artist, like I don't, I don't know how like the budgets work out, but like knowing that they have a budget, my ideal situation right now is like to play at shows where I feel welcome, you know, like when I was out in Detroit, there are a lot of like Filipino Americans that were asking me advice where they want to, they want to do music, right? They want to do stuff and they're asking me how I was able to kind of grow my process and I'm like, hey, I'm still learning just like everybody else, you know, but just to know I'm able to make impact off that too, like yeah, the money is great, but just to know I'm making impact for that, like that's something that can't be put on a tax write off, or that's not going to be put always on Instagram, you know, like there's certain intimate stories where people will tell me when they go up to me, they're like, I had a really hard week, or I had a really tough semester, you know, and like your music, your energy in general, like you spend time with like some of those kids out there, like I know I'm not that old, but just to be able to give game and perspective, like that to me is way more rewarding than like performing, you know, performing is great, but the things that are, that come with the territory and like the right ways, like those are things that I will internally be grateful for, you know. So, so, well, we've got to finish. Lucky. I know, I'm like, no, no, I love it, and I know it's going to be very valuable for people to hear. So we touched on the editorials that came organically. We touched on the advertising $10 a day at moments in time where you could spare the money because you're working a day job, right? You threw in some extra money here and there, but you saw this thing was working, and you said, hey, how can I just keep pushing money into it, right? Then you talk about the influencer campaign that you ran on top of it, that you did, you know, bring us on for to help with, but it was all your idea. And this is, before you get into this, I, this is something that I've always appreciated about your image, Corey, going back and forth about this over the years, but you're just one of the people that want you, you take the content, you take the consultations, right? Or you take a course or whatever. And whenever we talk, like you really apply everything, right? And you learn and you went from, you know, you might, when we were early days in the agency, you'll hire us, and then we might be doing everything because you just don't have the time and you did start to learn some stuff that you don't have the time. But then you were like, oh, no, I just need y'all to run this. I'm going to run this over here. And then he's like, oh, well, not, all right, I just need y'all to run this, but I'm going to run this right here. And I trained somebody else to do this over here for me and I hired them and now I'm pulling them up, right? So you really like over time, you know, taking the resources, brought it into yourself so you become self-sustaining, and then still figure out a way and realize, hey, you can keep relationship there too, as we like, we're here, we're here today. So it's been a pleasure to watch you grow. With all that being said, of course, now the influencer campaign, the cover video campaign on YouTube specifically, not TikTok, this is 2022. Now, oh, how can I run a TikTok campaign? How did you come up with this was really, yeah, late 22 into 2023. How did you come up with, I want to do a cover video campaign on YouTube? I got you. So obviously, TikTok has taken over music industry over like the last three years in terms of being able to have people engage with content at a rate that's like explosive, like it's quite literally explosive. And just looking at trends like my initial thought process is like, which one to take to our campaign? But it's like, I don't really make a music where people can, it's not really replicable in the sense of you can't really dance to it. It's not a hype song. It's very slow and mellow, right? One of the things like kind of my original kind of tropes is like trying to do music early on was like, I didn't want to be a cover artist. So I guess there's a lot of Southeast Asian cover artists on YouTube that would get big off of their covers. But when it came to their original music, it just never hit the same, right? For me, like making it a point where kind of seeing the social proof, like a lot of the artists that are doing the cover arts or the cover music, they'll do songs like Alicia Keys, If I Ain't Got You, or like maybe like an ensing song or usher song, just stuff that people are very familiar with, you know, Neo, So Sick. And I saw that there was an opportunity there where I'm like, okay, I'm trying to get people to organically find this song. There are people that if you really build your audience, right, they're going to rock with you no matter what kind of content you put out, right? So, okay, maybe I don't have like the notoriety of someone like a John Legend or Alicia Keys. But like, if they hear this song through a different lens or a different artist, I do this all the time where I stumble across a really good singing where I'm like, what's the original sound line? So I kind of had this idea, I pitched a quarry where I was like, hey, you know, like, there's like a big kind of movement of cover artists that exclusively in Southeast Asia and the Philippines, like they, they're exclusively known for doing cover art. And it almost solidifies you as like, this is like a legitimate song if you were to have this artist cover the song, right? So I was like, okay, if there's all these cover artists that are doing this type of music, and that's the only thing that they do, what if I was to kind of add them and have them sing the song? And there's a few things for one was the social proof of like, okay, this big cover artists, you're going to find artists that have 500k, 600k subscribers, 1 million subscribers that, one, they have that platform, which will legitimize the song. And two, a lot of times too, they're also cost effective. So I'll give you an example. The currency in the Philippines is called a peso. One dollar in the US is 50 pesos, right? So I was just talking to like my guy yesterday where some maids are like common in the Philippines. And he was telling me that like, I guess one of the maids that was being paid from someone he knew was about 500 pesos a week. So if you were to convert that into US dollars, it's about $15 a week for a maid to run your ship, you know. So the value of the dollar spreads farther in countries like that. Just in general as you're going to find that international ads to countries that really like Western music like the Philippines will stretch further. The same thing with YouTube cover artists, right? So like, all right, we pay these YouTube cover artists X amount, 2,000 pesos or 3,000 pesos is a lot over there. But here's not that much. But like, one is like the value because I'm targeting these people that I'm trying to reach that they already have the traction to have them. And two was just to build the SEO optimism, like the social proof of it, which we're typing lucky, you're going to see people that sing the song. And these are really talented singers that are doing it. And what I'm starting to find too, like kind of like being a year removed from the campaign is that there are other artists that we didn't even do the influence campaign for that were singing the song or they're doing guitar solos to a piano solos, what I find so fascinating. And I'll spend the time for each video to be like, Oh, I love the cover. Thank you so much. You know, they'll have the the artists that sang the song, pin the pose and the comment or whatever and like people trickle over to my YouTube, they trickle over to the song. You know, like when it's so funny to me, like, I'll get people that will cover the song that just like, I never even knew they existed beforehand. And I'll drop like the fire emoji and they'll be like, Oh, my God, it's you. And I'm like, it is me. But just like the engagement off of that, you know, like the concept, there's a parallel drawn a YouTube cover strategy to a TikTok dance that might be replicated. It's not so much like the the actual movement, but the semantics and logistics of it are identical in terms of like, I'm trying to reach an audience. I'm trying to spread my song, if your brand winners or if they funnel through enough to be able to click the song or find the music that I like, that they like from me. It's just that there's a matter of like reaching them and I had a kind of game plan. It's like, well, I don't really want to have people like do hypes of the luggage, a slow song, you know, so that's really kind of like taking the next step in marketing in terms of like, how do I reach the people that I think are going to resonate with the song the most in a way that, you know, there's not necessarily a full blueprint for it. I didn't find a blueprint on Google like how to make a song blow up in Southeast Asia. It was like, all right, I got this audience. Here's some things I know from some of the courses that you guys have. Let me console with like my assistant, you know, I was put together this campaign. It's either you win or you learn, right? So like, I felt like I wanted the end of the day, I also learned too. So like, it was worth for me to take that risk in terms of like putting up like the budget for it, just because like, Lucky's one of those songs where, because it's not trendy, it's a timeless piece, 10 years from now, people are going to be looking up the covers to the song. You know, there's covers from 10 years ago, 15 years ago that still get lots of plays and lots of streams on YouTube. I felt like Lucky was no exception to that. And that's where I kind of took the risk of being, all right, let's go. And that's what happened. When you saw that, you got all these things moving. And then it was time to put gas in it. Remember, you're like, all right, we're going to run all this up. We can't just keep doing $10 a day. I think the number of the budget that you wanted to do for it was, was it 10k or 20? It's 10k. 10k. You also had, I think you might have had some labels at that time, kind of like reaching out possibly, or you could have like gone that route or gone some labels or distribution deals or reaching out after Lucky was blowing up during and after. During and after. Why didn't you go take any type of deal to try to figure out how to blow it up versus the route that you did take, which we'll talk about how you, you know, got that money and everything. Man, I feel like the label conversation honestly would be, it might be more in depth than my explanation of how I got Lucky to kind of blow up because I have a lot of like kind of thoughts about that. But I'll say with labels, like at that time, I didn't, before Lucky was blowing up, I didn't have any label, whatever, reaching out, anything like that. It was just like, all right, I kind of came into the early 2023 with like this album, like, all right, I'm just going to drop and gas this stuff as if Lucky, as if I didn't have a label, which I didn't. But like for me, as I was getting offers to like have like Lucky be pushed when Lucky was blowing up, I got a little confused or sidetracked because it's like, man, I could take some of these deals and I can get into a lot of that stuff more in depth after talking about how Lucky blew up. But for me, it was like, all right, I have like these credit cards that I got business credit from, I'm going to take those and gas it with like the ads I was running, you know, I was already putting money into the campaign for the influencer stuff, and then just testing, testing the ads beforehand. So like, even though my limit was 10K, like the amount of production I had beforehand, I'm like factoring it in like the music video, the live sessions I was shooting, building like the cover art, everything around Lucky, like, yeah, the budget was 10K, but like over this span of three years, it's probably honestly more. Okay. So, but the gas up period, you were like, all right, so you use a business credit card that you were using? Or did you have to go like get a loan specific before that? There's a few business credit cards. So like, this is my philosophy of funding. I'd rather have it, not need it, than need it and not have it. Because when you're going to go look for funding, and the bank can tell that you really need it, it's like, man, like, so I ended up getting a few more credit cards than I needed. But one credit card was about 10K that I had. This is like some sauce. I'm not like a credit guru guy, but like you can, you can Google this stuff on your own time. But like they're essentially there's three bureaus, right? And you can pull from either Equifax, TransUnion, or Experian. You can only have a certain limit to how many credit cards you can get per, per bureau. But if you know how to stack the cards correctly, you can get upwards of like six to eight cards and have those. So like, I'll give you like a game plan, you do what you will with it. But my game plan was like, I have a personal reporting line that's about 10 to 15K, right? So they do something called comparative credit. If I apply for a business credit card, they're going to try and see what type of credit inquiry or credit history that I've built up. So I have a regular credit card that's been about 15K. So I got one card that was about 15K. So in terms of credit stacking, because you can pull a couple cards from each bureau, I was able to get about six cards before I fully was able to utilize what it was that I was going for, you know, so. But that's cool because like at the end of the day, I'm just saying, you spend 10K in a short period of time. It was two to three weeks, right? Something like that, right? So to go as somebody who doesn't just have this money sitting on the table, you don't have any deal or anything connected to you to say, I'm going to spend 10K on ads from my credit card. It's something we typically don't advise, right? Right. But you broke some numbers now. And then you specifically compared it into getting a deal and what it would look like to re-up. Do you remember that conversation? Sort of. Like, I remember having it. I don't remember exactly what I said at the time. So you were looking at how fast Lucky was moving, the amount of money you were getting from Spotify. And how much, how fast I can recoup. And how fast you thought you could recoup. And then you compared that, well, hey, I could give away some of this, a piece of my music and things like that to a label or distributor or something like that. Or I could just get this loan and recoup. And I think you recouped that 10K in about, what, three, four months? That's a beautiful thing, right? It is a beautiful thing. And the only reason I was able to do it that way is like, I spent, you know, as much as Lucky blew up in 2023, I spent three years trying to figure out how to make content go and how to be able to recoup. Because I can kind of see my statements engaged like, okay, I was able to stream this month. This is what ended up looking like two, three months later when I got the royalty payout. So that was like a risk that I was able to take partially because like a lot of the business credit you can do, they'll have an intro or a grace period of like 12 months, no interest, right? Or 21 months, no interest. So like no one that I can fall back on my day job and write off some of the expenses. Like for me, 10K, as much as there was a lot of money to spend at the time, it was in the grand scheme of things still dropping the ocean. I can say that, and that doesn't apply. That's not advice to everyone to go get credit cards and rack that, rack it up because it's like, I only knew that based off like me knowing that I had a four and a half cent cost per click and it's already doing X amount of streams at the time and that I already have like things in place. So if I need to guess it even more, instead of pulling for one credit card, I got like five, right? I got six, like, so if I really had to bust down and take it even further, then I could have, but just to, just to be able to recoup and then some for me was very rewarding. And I'm very grateful for that too. So with all that being said, you've had a lot of success on your own. I know you've had experiences before like that single situation that you had with the label prior. And you, I think you said you, well now you said, what song was it that you did a single deal? Like a label reached out was like a random label in the UK or something like that. Yeah, where you want to go? Yeah. All right. So what would, what did you learn about how you want to move your career forward? Because there's a lot of different directions. We can go with everything, but I think just the cleanest way to like, you know, wrap this up. It's kind of give a sense of based on what you've learned before and what you've done now and particularly with the label slash indie system. How do you view your career as a whole and how you want to take on any partners, whether it's managers, because you still don't have a manager actually. I didn't think about that. All right. You don't have a manager. You don't have a label or whoever. How you, how are you viewing your career at the moment? Right. I hear you. So that, that situation for me was like the first time in 2020. This was before the pandemic where I was really lucky for them to be able to offer me a deal, you know, and like at that time, like just the money from it, which is like enough for me to keep going forward. And like, I think part of the challenge and what was unique about that time was like, I saw my dad situation over like literally a couple of weeks before the pandemic happened. So like, I felt like the spike of how everything was, there was this whole time period from like, I want to say in March or 2020 to May, where like, I was waiting for stuff to happen kind of slow. People are working from home and so like the office and just like a lot of the things that I thought were going to happen with this song didn't end up going right. Like one of the things they wanted to do with the song was like they wanted to they wanted to do a remix and we were trying to find producers and we're trying to clear the budget. And there's a lot of things and stipulations where I was like, man, like, if I still had this song, I could have worked it myself like or whatever. But at that time, I just didn't know right. So going forward, you know, like your goals and like what you want and what you expect out of people will change over time. And I think for me right now, it's like the any situation I get into right now, whether it's like a show opportunity or a feature or management label situation, like I have to be able to provide they have to be able to provide value. And I think we have to be able to provide value for each other. And we got to win together, right? You know, a lot of artists are either really afraid of like labels or afraid of like big entities or whatever the case is. But like the reality of it is like, there's a reason why they're there. Now, if it doesn't make sense for you for where you're at right now, that's fine. But like, I don't believe in the idea of demonizing labels because like, honestly, like talking to people on the on the ground level labels like, like, in ours and people that are kind of like getting their feet wet, like they're people that honestly genuinely believe in the music. Now, whether the finance guy believes in the same situation that they're providing you, it could be a totally different conversation. So I'll give you kind of like my label experience this year. So like, I had like lucky charting around the world. It's charting Brazil, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia in places like in charting the US on iTunes, like top 28 RMB. I got maybe about 10 to 15 situations. And one of these situations, everybody from managers to labels that are indie distributors, major label acts, you know, and like, not to name drop, but like, there are a few that really stood out to me. So like, there's some that haven't been shared. There's one label and they're pushing. I'll let people figure this out because like, I don't want to test exactly who, but this is one RMB boy band right now that's going off. They're doing crazy stuff. Like they're they're viral on TikTok and reels. I'm sure you'll come across it if you haven't already, where they reached out to me as the time where they're trying to break this RMB boy band. And they reached out to me and I was like, they want to sign Lucky over. Like we're interested in doing a, you know, a deal with Lucky and having the song signed over, like we can push it, right? And I'm like, oh, damn, like, you know, these guys, I'm like looking at like the people on the roster. I'm like, pretty dope. You know, like I talk, I talked to the A&R, we're trying to set up a meeting and like I get ghosted. And I was like, okay, that's kind of weird. But you know, it wasn't just that like I had another another label reached out where I had an A&R say that pretty much the same thing. And what's so funny is like these emails I get will be like, Adria Monio X label, like that would always be like the title of like every email I get it. I'm like, whenever I was like, when I first saw like titles like that, I was like, oh, like this label is reaching out. I'm not going to name drop which labels, but definitely like the ones that people, oh yeah, like definitely know who they are. And sometimes the conversation would go really far. Sometimes, you know, it would stop at the emails, you know. So I had another situation where I had a label reach out to me a couple of weeks ago, right. And they actually reached out earlier this year, there's an A&R that I thought was ghosting me. And like I hopped on another call with a different A&R. I found out that A&R that was talking to me got let go. So I'm like, I thought I was getting ghosted. And I'm like, what is going on with like these labels? Like, are they am I doing something wrong? Like is it weird? Like whatever. But like, I honestly think a lot of labels shoot shots. And if they don't end up taking them, it's like, whatever, like we'll let it be. Some of these conversations get further. And then I've had like independent labels and managers. So like one thing I'll say is like, I think the trend of labels now is that there are a significant amount of distributors that are offering label services that I'm starting to see. Honestly, I had more offers in hand, like emailed to me like next day, compared to some of the major labels that were doing that stuff, you know. And I think there's definitely benefit for it because like it mitigates the risk of the label putting up a big advance because most of the content is usually done. They're going to be signing over songs that they think are going to do well based off of what they have. But a lot of the distribution stuff was stuff that I honestly think I could do myself, where I could do even a better job of, right? Like they'll offer stuff like discovery mode was just starting to break at the time for like you're starting to become more normalized. And a lot of these like labels slash distributors were just trying to say, oh, we have discovery mode. I'm like, me too. But you want like 20% just for just for you to upload the song. I mean, part of it is just like, unless they can guarantee like editorials or a marketing budget. And this is where having a really crafty lawyer, a lawyer that knows how to navigate that stuff come in. Like and unless you have that type of stuff, like, you know, a lot of these labels will pitch stuff that if you ever look at food, you'll like the labels, they will have like the hype stuff on the front and the ingredients in the back and might say stuff like all natural or like no antibiotics or hummus for the food. But like that stuff is already banned to begin with. So in a way, they're like marketing stuff that's already there. Like to say like they can pitch on editorials for you, unless they have a direct relationship with the people that are curating that playlist, you can do the same stuff. You know, so like a lot of these contracts, I was getting kicked back. It's like, I need a budget that's like, you're like, there's a term OPM other people's money, like I need a budget that represents like what I think I can put up for myself. And one of the stuff I feel like, you know, when I talk with my lawyer in terms of like what I wanted to, to give up or what I want to get in exchange for what I'm giving up, like I feel like it was very reasonable. A lot of times in general, like, okay, we'll talk to our accounting department. We'll get back to you. Most times they didn't get back to me, you know, I had a couple of offers that I had a couple of managers distinctly that were either operating their own label or, you know, that were doing their own situation. Like I'll tell you one story. This is the first label slash manager that reached out to me where it would, I got so uncomfortable in our meetings. So the first thing we had was super dope. And the reason why I got uncomfortable is like, I felt like the second conversation we had was completely different than I thought what we were going to get into. So they wanted to sign, they wanted to sign lucky over to this label, right? And like, I'm trying to figure out the split. The second meeting we have the first meeting was cool. So I mean, we have like, now they're talking about they want to manage me. And I'm like, the first conversation we had was about sign lucky over. So like, I'm in this meeting with like this label owner slash manager, and he's like talking about, you know, standard raise 20%. And he said something to me that honestly, it kind of like made me nervous during the meeting. So like, he's like, I'm trying to clarify the split, like, is it 20% streams? Or is it 20% of like everything that I'm doing? And he said something to me that I'll never forget and has made me make sure I have a lawyer in my bad pocket, wherever I go. So he, he, like, it's verbatim, let's start laughing. He's like, if I open a restaurant, or if you open a restaurant, and I was investing in your restaurant, do you think I only want 20% appetizers from your restaurant? And I was on the zoom and I was just like, I'm like trying to clarify legitimately. And I was like, just give me the contract. I'll look it over. But like ever since that experience I had with that manager, I'm like, okay, like every time like I have these meetings, I got to come prepared. And I granted, like, I've never had an experience like that, beyond that conversation. But that was like one of those eye-opening things for me. I'm like, man, like, if I really wanted to sign, this was like the person that was like at the forefront of my career. I would not feel comfortable because it's like, you went from like trying to sign lucky, to now you want to manage me, to now you're trying to like, explain, oh, like restaurants, like, we are near 360 at that point. It was crazy. You know, and that's one of those things where like, if I didn't know any better, if I didn't have my discernment, I feel like for me, like my discernment's only wrong when I don't listen to it, whether it's like relationships, whether it's like friendships, like, you know, life. So like, there was something I, I remember driving home that day and I was like, dude, like, what the heck? Like, luckily, like, I knew someone that I knew a lawyer, attorney that has rocked with my music for a while. And I reached out and I was like, hey, I'm starting to get like opportunities coming up my way is anyway, I can have you counsel me through like these deals and have you represent me these meetings and he's been a really cool guy that has helped me a lot. You know, I've had big name labels reached out. I've had offers and stuff. But I think a lot of the offers after like taxes and after paying your lawyer and the management fees and stuff, like, it isn't enough for me to like, feel comfortable, like just settling with, you know, and the fact that I've been able to touch. This is like the best financial year I've ever had as an artist. I think at 1819, like that college version of Adrian would have probably been signed by now. But if I go earn a show myself, and this artist manager is entitled to 20% of everything that I'm doing, and I earned that show, I worked so hard to get this point. It doesn't make sense for me to give it away. I earned this show. These are the people that reached out to me and like you're taking 20%. And I think that, you know, it doesn't mean like this person is trying to like mess me up or whatever the case is. But like, for me, I feel like the situations that make the most sense are going forward, like, I want a new album deal. I want a tour that is new set up. Anything that I'm already making income off of, I will never, well, I'm not going to say never, but like it really has to make sense for me to give up, because I really feel like if I'm going to give so much control early on, and I work so hard to get it, it's not even really about the money at the point. It's more of like, I don't do music necessarily for the money. Like this is like my livelihood. You know, so like for me, the ideal situation for me is like a label or management or agency that's like, we understand that you market music, South East Asian countries, you have the data that shows you've done this type of play listing, this type of ads, this type of marketing, we can provide you the budget to do that, and this is a split that's fair. If it's not that or something where it makes sense in that capacity, then like, I don't necessarily want to go through a major label system where the ecosphere of like doing stuff where it's really slow, they got a marketing guy that's trying to figure out what to do with me. It's like, I already know how to market myself. Here's my blueprint. You need to be able to like add value to that. I've had managers approach me where, oh, we could do this for you, we could do this, like have the same, but for me, from a manager standpoint, I don't want to babysit here. That makes a lot of sense, man. That makes a lot of sense. So I mean, I love it how I just summarize to look, I have a blueprint, you put in the work to build it, and I just need people who can add value and accelerate this. And when you have that level of clarity, it makes it easier to look at deals that are on the table. So first and foremost, man, it's been obviously a pleasure to have this level, this first sit down, we've been on Zoom calls, we've been on phone calls, we've been in chats over the years, but to have this first meeting where we could sit down and interview you in this way, it's been dope. Y'all go check out Adrian Melanio's music, man. He's a dope artist, and we'll hit him up for a consultation. He can give you some game too at this point. Yes, sir. But thank you for coming by, man. I appreciate it, man. Peace and blessings, man. This is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. I'm Brian Manishion. I'm Corey. This is Adrian Melanio. And we out. Peace. Appreciate you for watching. If you like content like this, you'll love seeing our music marketing strategies that we use as an agency to actually blow up artists to millions and even billions of streams that are available for free at NoLabelsNecessary.com. And the cool part about it that's going to really make you love it is we don't have to be all entertaining and add all this fluff just to get some views that we do on YouTube. We get straight to the information. There's play by play in courses that give you a breakdown of every step that you should do to get success. And you have the ability to have communication with us. We get on live talks, a lot of cool things for members, and it's free just to hop in. So check it out right now at NoLabelsNecessary.com.