 So, Long, I think, is going to try to change his vote, his 8-7 vote, and not call McNamara number one, number two, to try to get the bill reported. Then on the floor, Morris is supposed to rescind their August resolution to go to Altonkin. We think, and the chip's down, he'll run, may not do it, but we hope he does, and we hope he tries. The mayor will then insist on offering a substitute, Senator Dick Russell. We hope that he will not do that. We think we could get more votes against Morris than we could for ourselves. That's not the way we want to put it, but that's the brief net of it. And we would like to get Morris to offer it, if he doesn't, get Russell Long or Smithers, somebody else to offer it. There have been a lot of promises and talk about it, so let's get it settled and clear up there for not only the people of this country, but our boys in the morning. Our governments that are watching this debate, and therefore I move to rescind it, and I'm going to vote against my own motion, if Morris won't do it. Then have somebody move to table that, and say, now, if you want to vote with Morris, and take the power away, and let Morris start running the war, vote with Morris. If you want the president to run it, the administration, the men out in Vietnam, John Westmoreland, why you vote to table. Now, it's that clear, and let everybody know it. We have a tendency to cut off the debate. Now, the Bobby Kennedy groups meeting around, and they want to offer some Joe Rao type of resolution that would show, number one, that the sense of Congress that we ought to escalate any more necessary or something, which would mean nothing, and they admit that it would just confuse. They've also given some thought to McNamara tells me, Bobby told him last night at dinner, that since Russell is going to try to reaffirm it and stick their nose in it, that they might offer a motion to declare war. And then when the vote came, they would vote against their own motion to declare war. And then the Senate, of course, would not declare war. Then they'd say, well, now the American people don't want war. You see, they voted 82 against it. So the president can't go too far because people don't want to do this. And they think what further confuses things. I think it would, too. And I don't think we don't know who to declare war against. The Viet Cong is not a political government. The Vietnamese have got much of their own to fight with. It's Chinese that are punishing. We don't want to declare war on China. The main thing about declaring war is that we just do not know with whom and what treaties these people have. And maybe the North Vietnamese have a treaty that when war is declared, that the Soviet will come to their rescue like we've got a treaty that will go to a South Vietnam rescue. It may be they've got a treaty with China that if we declare war, do it. So we don't want to do something desperate and get us in a war with China. But they want to offer that to them so they can interpret it that way. The net of all of it is the simplest, the easiest, the quickest if we had command and had leadership. I have told Long and Smithers this. I've told McNamara, tell Russell this, would be to get Morse to offer his resolution. If you won't get somebody else to offer, resend him because they've been promised that. Every hour it's been on television for three days. Then move to table it, though that ends it all. And say it's a vote for Morse, it's a high vote, the table is to kill it. And then try to get it out. Also try to get up this economic aid bill that the house has passed. Because every day it's just, you're going to cut out, and the boys are going to start leaving the army out there. The Vietnamese soldiers, we can't pay them. And the government may fall to pieces and they don't know what they're playing with. And it's very dangerous. I don't believe we've made that sale to our senators. I talked to one or two last night, Birch Bay and Mike Monroe, and they didn't realize it was this seriousness. And they said, why have you called us? So if you can get up there and not show any desperateness, but just spend some time in Mansfield's office and tell the lay-o and your judgment that this thing's likely to fall apart, they're going to hold back the money and the whole Vietnamese army is getting support assistance. The Vietnamese government and the economic aid, the things that we thought fall right in Mansfield wanted, the schools and things of that kind. They haven't had money. They've transferred all they've got from one fund to the other that they can. We told them last October that we knew it was going to run heavy deficiency, but we let them know in January. We sent it up early in January. I believe January 18th, it's been there now nearly a month and a half, and they've had Gavin and they've had all these others, and now they're just piddling. So we ought to get rid of Russell's bill, try to bring up immediately the Fulbright bill. We also got to watch that tax thing like a hawk. McCarthy is off base. He says he's an administration critic on war. I noticed Minneapolis Saturday night. He's jealous of Humphrey. Bobby is trying to confuse everybody's position. He advocated his exact languages. I favor them participating in the government. He didn't say elections or anything. He just said that television. Now, we have not favored them and we do not favor them. So there's a definite difference. We don't believe in favoring the communists. We're trying to kill them, and we don't favor them in the government before or after them. If they were elected internationally supervised election, on the prime minister, if they elected the prime minister, well, we probably couldn't do anything about it. We would oppose it every way we knew how, but we think the Laos thing that we got into and got sucked into has been very damaging to us, and they've been very disappointing, and they've broken all their agreements. We had a neutralist. We didn't have a communist, but a neutralist. But they've still got all the armies in Laos and they haven't withdrawn. They haven't done a thing. They promised President Kennedy they do. So our people are universally against, A, either recognize them for the negotiations. We say that we're willing to let them voice be heard, but we do not recognize them as a government, and if they come to the peace table, they'd have to come through North Vietnam. He favors permitting them to sit as an equal. We do not. He favors permitting them in the government. We do not. If the election was held and they were voted in the government as prime minister, our polls show 80 to 20 that they would not, and no communist has ever been elected to it in any government, anywhere in Romania, or in Hungary, or in Czechoslovakia, in East Berlin, in North Korea, any place that they've ever been elected. Laos, they've always been appointed. That's what he proposed. We would be against it. He says there are more years in here in agreement, because Bell says that that would be a subject of negotiations at Vietcong. Bell did not say that. Bell was asked a question. What happens between the peace treaty and the elections? It would be, I thought, that the key government would just control and have the United Nations, somebody else, supervise the election. Bell says that is a matter to be discussed at the negotiating table. So Bobby says that that's what he wants is to have it discussed, so he and Bill Moyers are together. Well, they're not. Bobby favors permitting them to be at the peace table and to participate in the government. Bell does not permit favor either, or at least the administration does. And Johnson, Russ, McNamara, Bundy, all in complete agreement with Moyers. But Bobby is puzzling it. I think trying to get away from appointing a communist, I believe he must get a bad reaction. Do you have any evaluation on that, to why he's backing and filling and changing? He's all over the place. We say he has a press conference an hour, he's busy around calling up every appointed columnist, what have you, and at the same time, his friends are saying he's getting an excellent reaction. Well, if he's getting an excellent reaction, he's sure as busy as hell trying to change his position. And so I just have to assume that Bobby is, you know, at first I don't think he knew what the hell he was really talking about when he started a week ago Saturday. All he wanted was to carve out an independent area and be a leader and be in opposition to some degree. But he never was really sure what the hell the degree of opposition he was getting into, and I think since that Saturday, he has spent all his time trying to fog it over, fuzz it over, and claim that he really isn't in disagreement, but at the same point, same time kind of likes the idea of all the publicity. If he'd only be interpreted there, that he really isn't pro-communist, you know, which is about the way it was coming across to a lot of people. Well, I think that's it. And did you see it yesterday on TV? No, but I saw it in those last night where they referred to it. Well, everybody that sat here, now they may be so prejudiced, but I had the six or eight people that were with me at the launch of the church, and their feeling was that he was trying to favor permitting the communists to come to the peace table. And every table they've ever come to, they've taken it over. Every government they've ever been appointed in, if they just minister culture, they take it over because they organize, and they know how to do it. But he was trying to favor, A, they're coming to the table, B, they're participating in the government formed, and C, without saying he favored the communists. And that's the way we looked at it. And I think that's what he does favor, because Hillsman was favoring that before I fired him. The replacing was Bill Bondi, and he wrote the speech I'm told, came back this last year. Well, I don't know what his primary motivation is to be in that position, or to be in a position where they would say, well, he's got his own team, and he's got his own area of activity, and he's really a leader. I think that maybe the second desire or outweighs the first, very frankly. He just wants to, you know, stay out in front there on some damn thing. Well, now, where do, how do you see our picture? I think that you might get up there and try to find out what's going on and feel about it. Now, what do you see a better position we can take? No, not at all. Do you talk to Mansfield at all? No. Wonder if you don't think you ought to? I will, because the Mansfield came back over the weekend, as I understand it. I didn't know, I didn't know what he did. I understood he might come back this week. Vallejo is a source of a good deal of our troubles. You know that, don't you? Oh, yeah. And you know that he has felt giving up Asia all along. He was a Brooklyn boy that has never wanted any part of it. He went out with me in 61, so you have to bear that in mind. Now, the Bobby folks have been stirring up a lot of the stuff that I said that Mansfield is no damn good, and he and Jeanette Rankin and Wheeler were just the same. Now, that was not said at all. And not a thing like that was said, although this was said, that when Nelson was raising hell with Fulbright and his questioning, we said, well, that's not anything. We had the La Follets in Wisconsin. As you know, we had to hire him Johnson in California, and I'm surprised that Kiko hasn't had to yield to some of that. Then we had Shipstead in Minnesota, and that may indicate some of McCarthy's doubts. We had Langer in North Dakota, and that's why we have problems in McGovern and Long and Young, and some of them in North and South Dakota. We had Jeanette Rankin, the only one voted against World War I in Montana, and Wheeler, one of six or seven in World War II, raised mail in the Senate. So these people all have problems, and Metcalfe and Mansfield have this very same thing, and you'll find that whole area is a problem child, including St. Louis against the Germans, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Longo. Now, what happened then? Mark Charles and some of them go out and tell Bobby's folks, as though they get around and say, Johnson is really after Mansfield. Now, I just want you to know all the facts. That's just not true. Yeah, and Mark Charles, who never contacts me, wants to see me either there or he could, and I haven't as yet. He will gossip everything you tell him, and I think what I would see him, I think I would see him and tell him, you never thought things going better. It's a good shape that we had unanimous Asia Bank development in the House and the Senate committee, even though they said full-brides raised mail. The biggest proposal Johnson made on Asia, Asian Development Bank, a billion dollars, that is reported out unanimously in the committee. Jean Black's going back. He did a great job. The military aid is going to be reported Tuesday in the House. It will be unanimous that the economic aid has been reported. It's unanimous that the military aid out of the Russell's committee is unanimous that they already finished the deficiencies of our next year's program. When full-bride reports his economic aid, that you're sure there won't be a half dozen votes against it, that they have had the hearings, that the hearings show in the Gallup poll this morning, the Harris poll, that the Dove started with 10 and they still got 10. But what they've done is knocked 14% off of Johnson's moderate course to go over to the Hawks and they're zigging when they ought to be zagging, and it shows they haven't gained one vote according to Harris. But I had 63 and dropped 49, dropped 14% on the way I was handling the war because that 14 won, they'd do more. So they're driving, in year, a harder course than I would normally take. And that's what the Harris poll shows, telling me you don't think it's going to make God a great deal of difference, Johnson. You think he has a war of limited objective that he doesn't want to take Hanoi or Peking. He wants to get them out of South Vietnam the day they're ready to get out. He'll get out, have an international election and let them select it. And you don't think he's going to get out, though. You think he's going to put in whatever needs and what needs will be depending on how many they send down. And what General Westmoreland requests.