 Welcome to the Donahue group. We're glad you could join us again. We're having a lot of interesting conversation this month Focusing pretty much just on the city of Sheboygan in part because we're honored to have Mayor Juan Perez with us as a special guest and Welcome, we're delighted that you can be here Also joining me Cal Potter former state senator professor Tom Paneski from UW Sheboygan a Former Alder person and I often forget to introduce myself, but I'm the namesake here Mary Lynn Donahue Former school board member and as I like to say simple country lawyers, so We talked last time mayor in in some detail about the current Financial structure of the city where our money comes from where it goes What our debt limits are and and so forth? And we went through a lot of charts that I that I at least found quite interesting and pretty eye-opening. It was Kind of city finance 101 for me Would you tell Tell us a little bit about how the listening sessions came about and things that you heard Just lessons that you learned from those sessions Well, as I said, we've we've held 16 Formal listening sessions. Those are those are the listening sessions that I announced to the council I was going to have one in the morning one in the evening In two in each district and they were pretty well attended I think a little under 400 people attended all of them. There were some regular ones that attended Every one of them or most of them But every time they did they came back with something interesting to say or some feedback they gathered from their neighbor or their friend So overall it was very worthwhile and very well attended and a lot of good ideas Suggestions came out of them and you've done some other sessions to some other informal sessions before Rotary West or the morning Rotary ARP I will be doing and then some for Altrusa and Numbers others and I'll be doing several. I think I've got three more scheduled to do a total over over 45 Listening sessions if you multiply that times two and a half three hours a piece by the time you're out of there A lot of hours. Yeah, so you talked a lot and you listened a lot Just as I promised I would do. Yeah, what did you hear? Well, there's you know as you do with the listening sessions We kept them to an hour minimum Sometimes going over a little bit because after a while you keep hearing the same thing being repeated But as we held the session there's certain issues that kept bubbling up to the surface Which are pretty interesting and a lot of it had to do with public protection protection and safety people really care and Value their public protection and safety But I don't think that they understood the cost involved with public protection and safety and I don't think they understood the trade-off My trade-off I mean that the more you finance public protection and safety because there's only so much money to go around You almost have to Unfinance something else and they weren't quite sure how that happened and when they understand that then they almost seem to come Back with the idea. Well, how do we make it balance? How do we equalize it just like are you with a family just like if you had three kids and a hundred dollars you divided between all three of them equally Mm-hmm, and that that public work protection and safety came up a lot transit came up a lot also interestingly and not surprisingly came up a lot Some issues dealing with well, they're all the buses are always empty But people needed to understand certain things about the transit as it operates as a separate budget where the government pays 80% of our budget and the city subsidized is 20% I Call that a good deal because if you want to pay 80% of a mortgage, I'll let you 20% for me is nothing But I think what people needed to understand and as we work through the process and the listening session is that transit has evolved To a point in our society and particularly in our community where it's become a basic service It doesn't need to pay for itself just like police doesn't need to pay for itself In fact police doesn't pay for itself almost nothing really does fire government right neither does fire well We have our inspections department pays for itself Okay, our city clerk pays for itself just by the amount of revenue that they generate But people expect transit because it charges to travel to pay for itself And it's gotten to a point where it really doesn't need to know nor should we expect it because it's a basic service And we provide for the people they need a comment was made well I never drive it. Well, I've never used the fire department either. I've been paying for it It's there is a basic service when you need it The as I understand that the listening sessions were part of what you're calling the citizens budget process Correct. I know there are other parts to it. Would you describe those? we have website Surveys and other ways for people who couldn't make it to the sessions to have input Well, we have hard copies at City Hall. We have hard copies at the library. We they can access our website and actually Fill out the questionnaires a survey from there. We sent out surveys to every city employee strongly recommended the department heads suggested employees fill them out Unfortunately only about 5% of our city employees actually filled out anything at all Reflects a very low response rate Okay, as I just for for those who may be listening and wanting to Fill out these forms first of all as I understand they ask some pretty basic questions But important ones one what's important to you? To what is the city do well? Three what does the city not do so well and then for just any other comments that people want to make But it's also my understanding if I'm correct that these are completely anonymous Anonymous correct reports if people so choose so right I think I believe the first question of what are the key issues facing shabuagan right now And that gave people an opportunity to just touch on anything and then there were very it's very very basic survey, but it Allows us the opportunity to collect some very worthwhile information in terms of generalization and credibility When we initially started we hope that if we get a hundred people to respond or to attend That would have been enough Sampling to get enough generalization and credibility so we could arrive to some good conclusions Well, we over exceeded that by three times right and I understand Jack Westfall Who's a great statistician and and smart man smart man pull pull maker? Was of assistance on a voluntary basis to the city and putting that and as he charges The cost would have been anywhere between 10 and $15,000 for his services. All right He did that and gratuitous as part of these sessions did they express their Interest in public safety the police and fire services that they were they willing to then pay the extra taxes to provide them Did they say anything about that? No In fact one of the things that didn't work for shabuagan when we talked about what work and what didn't one of Thing that didn't work is excessive taxes and fees and assessments. That's what people just don't want They want us to force ourselves to live within our means which is basically what the states telling us right now by cap In our levy you guys gonna have to figure out how you're gonna spend your money and prioritize Severely prioritize exactly what it is you want The people don't one of the things that wasn't working is excess that people have seen their taxes go up Increasingly up every year and quite frankly people are fed up with it They just don't want to be taxed anymore. Yeah a lot of a lot of them today are mobile They go to Florida they go to other states and they see Lower property taxes. They may not understand that those States are tourist havens with liquor taxes and sales taxes and a lot of other revenue sources That we don't have or states that have oil and gas and coal They have sort of cash cows that Wisconsin as an energy-dependent State doesn't have so as a result the I often heard that when I was in the legislature Well, Florida doesn't tax this or Louisiana or Georgia or whatever They would go through a litany of states that they've snowbirds particularly would live in and they said well You know if they can do it we can do it, but there really wasn't a case of apples and oranges exactly We really can't be compared in other community because we don't have the same situation and many times it's services too I've traveled enough to when you go through some communities. You see they have one traffic light It's on a wire over the middle of the over the intersection They don't have these multiple Standing traffic lights or they don't have curb and gutter just a black top road And if it rains heavily very few storm sewers, they just they're at the mercy of what's going to come and I think Level of service. I think there's some of that You know we you can blame the federal government for the hurricane fiasco But I wouldn't doubt that in many of those communities the level of municipal service Cannot hold a candle to what you would find if emergency structure William, Wisconsin Absolutely, I mean to the police the fire the public works the work ethic As well as the equipment available and response time and the teamwork and the preparation all of those things are just first-class here and It doesn't show its face until there is some type of emergency and God forbid that whatever happened But it isn't tested and so as you just like I said as you drive through these states and you see no curb and gutter And you just see a no storm sewers and you see these you can do that in cities in in Wisconsin sure sure You know and but your boy and was known for its concrete streets You know one of the first cities I think in a country to have concrete streets and and storm sewers and all the things that we do right It comes as a price and just like we have a first-class university system That yes may not be first-class for too much longer in terms there's going to be a certain amount of education That's going to have to occur with respect to the public a good example is that last storm we had Then because I was up there after the storm with chief Zire fire chief Doing a on-hand on-site Evaluation of what had occurred at that point to those people the most important thing was the police department But at the same time the most important thing was the fire department At the same time so was public works because they were all doing what they needed to be done to take care of the problem To protect our citizens to make sure that they were that they were Safe and they're taking care of so it's hard people are just to understand that when you prioritize You have to take away from one to give to the other or you have to give it equally That's very hard to do. That's the dilemma. That's that's the challenge How do we do that with the amount of money we have and keep everybody happy I wish somebody would tell me Well, and of course my my theory has always been just start to think differently You know when the way you do business is absolutely not working and one of the questions I was going to ask which is a little unfair is you know What would a good budget look like to you at the end of this whole long process and maybe there is no such Thing as a as a good budget because it'll involve a lot of sacrifice and cuts and so forth Let's think about how we do business the way a good budget looks now is with that 3.339% that we're allowed to increase our levy without actually having to go to a referendum is That every homeowner for a hundred thousand dollar home is going to take a fifty dollar hit again That's the way shaping up that provided the council wants to raise the levy at all Okay, if they don't then we have to chisel that amount out and bring it back Okay, well and this leads I think to just one of the the sort of the ongoing saga and is Is actually moving along as you promised when you were running it would is the construction or the the authorization for the construction of our police station? bring us up to date as to where we're at and Ideas or your timeline and how you think all of this might might well the word is it? The city council has struggled for 40 years to build a new police station that also includes picking the site We've done it. We've picked the site the council selected a site and that's very key. It's very important because it really brings some of the finality to the whole process and the site that was selected was next to City Hall north of City Hall Between the existing central police station and City Hall in the back of City Hall I should say and that's where the new police station is going to go That looks like a really small area to me Yes, it does But if you were to take City Hall if you were to demolish City Hall and clean it up a little lot will look very small too You can put a lot of building on what's there, okay? You can put a lot of I've seen huge buildings taken down and you go back and take a look at that a lot He said how in the world that building fit there it does and I think that's what people are going to be amazed We're going to be able to put a really neat police station there. That's going to be very adequately Providing the needs of our police department Okay And I think it's a good I think it's a good location to centralize yeah It's going to save us on another million million and a half Approximately because we own the land already. All right. So how much is it going to cost and how are we going to pay for it? What would you like for it to cost? a Good day My estimation will be anywhere between eight and ten million dollars and let me answer that I mean that's a good question and There was discussion, and I know we're talking about apples and oranges, but the Jamesville Police station that was recently constructed as I understand it at about a four point eight million dollar cost Jamesville being relatively similar in size to to Sheboygan. I think Demographically, maybe a little tougher area. I'm not sure but I Mean they have Layoffs and you know economic hard times in Jamesville as well as good times I also understand that police station doesn't have a dispatch center like We would need to have so it's not exactly analogous, but Is something in the range of five million dollars a possibility for our for I don't think so Okay, we'd be short-changing our police department too much. Okay. Okay. There's just some things that you know Time as time goes by changes that are that are being made and the state requirements and federal requirements Just so many things that are happening. I Wouldn't recommend even five million dollars. That'd be not enough. Okay. All right. Yeah Designer been selected sure in Zimmerman Zimmerman and are there any preliminary plans for the Not well, there's there were preliminary plans But they're gonna have to all be looked at again because they were not designed to put it next to City Hall I've got a meeting schedule next week with the Zimmerman my finance director myself and the three chiefs deputy chiefs and Chief Kirk and we'll be looking at that next step Actually, it'll eventually end up in building use committee, which is where it should have been in the first place But that's where it was the last time it became a real contentious issue That's what caused all all the problems So I pulled it out of what building use committee and suggested I go to committee of the whole where everybody got to talk When we're done, we're done folks. We've decided everybody had their shot at the bite of the apple and let's move on Now it can go back to build a news committee where it should be so that they can look and Site Look at all the details. Do we really need that many bathrooms or we really need that many windows? Do we need this do we need that maybe we need this maybe we need that they need to look at all those things one one Floor just all the way out all the way across maybe that adds a quite a bit Has anybody looked at when you go to a satellite police station and Concept as you go into bigger cities, you know many of your wards and so on here small storefronts where people have Can literally walk in and find an officer Available to them rather than centralization I just think of the city growing particularly continuing to grow probably south at some point You're going to have a geographic distance that we do that would fire, you know We sort of decentralized the operation and that that notion was brought about several times But it never gained a lot of popularity I'm sure boy, maybe isn't to that point of good size yet But eventually many cities find that you need to do that because of the geographic distance from the edge of the city To where the city hall is just by the growth that's incurred and we may have all to that point I don't think that right now people felt that we were at that point or enough people didn't feel that way 8 million dollars. Where does it come from? If we look at the chart we're gonna it's either gonna be a 20 year Bond or tenure float tenure Maybe a combination. We don't know yet. We're still talking about that. What's the best way to do it? Okay, all right, and The whole plan will be in place and the financing by about what time do you expect well if things go going at the pace That they're going it'll be towards the end Very end of 06 or be very beginning of 07 and ground will be broken And then it takes about a year maybe less than a year and a half. They go up pretty quick Okay, they're bill very strong. I mean these things have to be built a certain way There's a lot of things that are being mandated as I said and right now we're being mandated to have surveillance cameras When we do interrogations the state has mandated that but they don't provide money for it So that money's got to come from somewhere again, and we have to provide it. It was that pesky court system But you know it's for our own good. Oh, I wish we had the money to do it I mean it protects a city from liability and it protects the Perpetrator of any violation of a crime to sure sure You've been in office how many days four months it feels like four years, and I'll show you scars Yeah, and you you're just kind of moving like a whirlwind here And also and all sorts of things have been happening in the city I think the Chamber of Commerce Contract issue has certainly been an interesting one You've got you've taken some some nicks on that one Do you think it's still a new cast the the deciding vote? Good decision. How are things moving in terms of the city with respect to that? Well, I think I think it's going to move in a good direction And if anything else if it ever comes to a point where we'd like to contract with the Chamber again But there's there's a system put in place and we can just hand over that I think they would very much appreciate it to take over But the whole notion of the city doing it in-house came from a difference in philosophy and a difference in how The county-wide effort to promote and develop tourism was being handled Let me explain the philosophy of the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce to promote the county first and foremost And hopefully people will find themselves into Sheboygan The other philosophy is promote Sheboygan first And the people will ultimately find themselves into the county That was a philosophical difference that the difference in the amount of money that was put into the Sheboygan County Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce If you look at Elkhart Lake Elkhart Lake has their own Chamber of Commerce Who do they promote? Elkhart Lake how much money do they get the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce not one penny? Collar has a Chamber of Commerce who do they promote? Collar how much money do they give to Sheboygan County Chamber not one penny? They collect over three million dollars don't share any Falls the same way? Plymouth the same way? West Bend that nobody hears about since Sheboygan County Same thing they all have their own Chamber of Commerce They all they all promote themselves only and they don't give any amount and an equal Basis to the Sheboygan Chamber of Commerce until that's done I think the city of Sheboygan cannot come to the table and say let's begin talking And if the chamber wants a visitor center, which was I think they were depending on your revenues to help them do that Assessment to Elkhart Lake Plymouth Collar would be probably the route to go in order to to truly make it a facility that everybody pays for Exactly, but we were told That not one penny from a room tax from the city of Sheboygan was going to be used to build that visitor center So where that notion came from later on I don't know but not one penny was going to be used for that All right, and I understand that the city is in There's been some criticism about using some of the room tax money for for salaries Um for salaries for the the city is intending to hire a couple of people to Do the work how else would you do it well you'd have to hire somebody But I believe that we look at the numbers We're going to be spending less in salaries than it was actually being spent when it was being handled by the chamber Yeah, I mean presumably the chamber was using money for salaries too. I need to say though that You know somebody's referred to it as lip-talk And I can see why they would want to do that, but The relationship between the chamber and the city did not end nobody put an end to that It was a contract that was not renewed now that may surface again. We don't know Is it good maybe is it not I don't know There's a lot of things that have to be worked out before that would happen But the relationship is still there and we're hoping I mean we were already Bought two of the big ads full page ads. I believe to to to participate in in their program Which is not providing Most of the funding for them just as the other count the other cities aren't either I think it's going to be really exciting too Uh so many businesses profit non-profits law firms everyone is going through these branding processes, you know finding the the right tagline finding the right logo Really Fixing in the public's mind who you are what you do and and so forth and I think that there is some potential For the city if it if it uses that room tax money in a pretty powerful way To really publicize a city that's on a lake and from my perspective There's no more beautiful lakefront along the west coast of of lake michigan than shabuagan Manitowak, hihani, algoma. I don't know about receding kanosha But I mean those are nice, but they don't have the beautiful accessibility that our our lakefront has I think and People want to be on the water. It's just one of those things. So I was looking at some photos aerial photographs and photos from Being in the lake looking in Shabuagan is a beautiful community. It is a very beautiful community. We're not marketing ourselves. We're marketing something else hoping to ride The tale of somebody else. I don't know that we need to do that. We're big enough I I disagree. I know you disagree with me. I was waiting for that Sure, I you know, I would contact shabuagan. I would contact the chamber of commerce I'm going to visit some place to see what to go visit and what to do And when you think of shabuagan, we've had a lot of nice things happen that got marketed I don't know how they got marketed, but I don't know who was the city, but she had a great place To raise a family low crime What was another one tree city we've been tree city designated there's been several things that That get marketed and night and get in the magazines nationwide. I don't know if that's the chamber has done that But somebody's done that. I don't know if the city has done that But see, I would just we just if I were going to a city, I would go to the Look up the chamber of commerce online and say What do you got here? Now? I'm going to have to go to the city web page and then got to go to the chamber web page I don't know. I think like duplication of services to me Well, and if it is that needed to be it's got some controversy finally It's just been just way too pleasant here. It needed to be addressed with the other chamber of commerce Is there were reaping off some of the benefits of the money that we were contributing to a county effort? That's all I'm saying. I think it should be done in a fair and equitable way You know, we they want $290,000 from the city of Sheboygan. Let's have kohler do the same thing We're running out of running out of time some good things. Uh, the it's so nice to have michigan avenue We just cut the ribbon from michigan avenue is a wonderful street now the merchants are happy It was a difficult inconvenient time. I think a lot of them claim that they lost some money I would understand if they did They bear with us. I mean they were there with us and then they understood now It's open. They love it. All we need to do is plant trees now lights are on Yeah, and it looks real nice Saturday was a walk to michigan avenue day and there's a there's a lot of people there A lot of people that's great And of course you spoke at the groundbreaking for the mung the lao mung american veterans memorial That was a wonderful wonderful groundbreaking physically and groundbreaking symbolically because that's the only the second of Any of them that exist in the united states right now Yeah, and it's a beautiful monument. Dean hernandez has he actually well not only that he actually designed it He is an artist and it's a beautiful design and I was just struck. I was there by the compatibility of the the thought of the monument and the and the site it was just one of those beautiful windy sunny mornings and Really recognizing what all the veterans did and their families and how people have come back to the community I mean, it's it's gone way beyond just a war memorial a great sense of Commodity, I felt just We're here and we're together and this is a pretty awesome feeling. Yeah, but we're all different a lot of us Yeah, so so elections are coming up. We should make a pitch to the citizens Although those of us who ran for office always like not to be opposed One of the things we've talked about is that there's so many elections that are not Contested anymore because of money or the the power of the incumbency But people will start taking nomination papers out in november 4 8 of the city december 1st December 1st. That's correct. Thank you. Uh december 1st and uh for uh for the city council and school board and so County board and the county board is up in its entirety. I think this year Is that in the fall or These are this is an april election. The municipal are always spring, right? But the county is different. Yeah, no We're all together. So there's the courthouse people time to say goodbye We hard to stop talking. Thanks for joining us mayor. We appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks for having me