 Welcome to JSA TV and JSA Podcasts, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Jean-Max Lim and joining me today is Dean Boyle, CEO of EcoSense. Dean, welcome to JSA. It's been an eventful year. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm all right, yeah. Thanks for the call. No worries. Look, you work in a very particular and very interesting space and the space that we are wasting a lot of resources on because a lot of operators don't have visibility into it. So let's dive right in. How serious is the problem of energy waste or cooling resources being overused due to the lack of visibility into the infrastructure? Yeah, it's a good question. And it's definitely a huge problem in the industry. And sadly, it's one that isn't going to get any better unless we start addressing the challenges. And there's some very simple, low hanging things we can do to improve the situation. I mean, even this week, obviously, it's a very timely discussion. This an IPCC report, which has been well documented. Some very scary quotes in there about rapid, large-scale reduction in greenhouse gases. And it's almost impossible to turn back the clock very shortly unless we do something almost immediately. And again, it well trotted out stats, but data centers. It is well known that data centers are already established as one of the world's highest collectors, consumers of energy. So again, I think everybody realizes that data centers are a huge energy consumer, but there is not enough activity going on to resolve that. And just things that we are very closely involved with on our side is the cooling side of it. So again, fairly well known in the industry, but roughly 35% of energy in a data center facility is taken up by the cooling load. So anything that can be done to reduce that element again makes a significant contribution to reducing carbon and hitting our carbon targets. But one of the reasons why there hasn't been a lot of or not enough work done in this area is that it's particularly difficult to do it without access to proper data sets, without some intelligent analytics, without just giving the operators and the owners a little bit of help to make those decisions and to see where changes can be made. And again, one of the issues that we see quite a lot is traditional software platforms in the data center space of which there are a number of different types, but they're typically there to provide mission critical failure alerts or basic trending data with a minimal number of sensor points. So it's just not helpful enough when you're trying to find areas of inefficiency when you're trying to hit an energy saving target carbon reduction target, or trying to find identify areas of wastage to release some capacity. And again, just back to echo sense that's absolutely the area that we're targeting and definitely where echo sense can make a difference. And we routinely take out fairly significant chunks of energy up to 30%. So fairly routine we get involved in those kind of things. So yes, it's a big problem. Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, and it's so so factual so point well at the moment with the new climate report that came out with some very scary figures. So we will definitely have to do a little bit to help the planet. Let's talk about your sense you've already mentioned a little bit about it, but let's talk about your sense because I remember you were probably the first one that I've ever seen using VR in the data since I think there was back in 2016 we went to the Excel. And that's when I met you. I mean, talk us through the brand talk us to you've seen this opportunity very early on for sure, because you started in the meat to 2010, early the most talk us through your sense what you do how did it come about what why that logo that you got behind you with the leases and give us a quick like overview of the company. Okay, so one of the best decisions we ever made was have the gecko as our logo get more interest and more requests about the logo than anything else. So maybe we should just start selling geckos. So we're a UK based business, developing or developed a software platform called Echo soft critical, which is today deployed at customers all over the world. And I think there's most regions of the globe that we cover these days either directly or via a fairly extended partner network, very close tie ins with some leading universities in the UK. So do some fairly cutting edge research on machine learning analytics, virtual reality and just crunching large data sets also gives us access to some of the best people coming off the production line. Everybody feels like a youngster but we get access to the best mechanical engineers best software engineers best hardware engineers, and definitely are they are significant contributor to our business. And what I can say, what I can sense was set up to do is is to use new technologies embrace new technologies be disruptive in the industry which a company like echo sense has to do. And really just challenge the way that data centers were being managed how they used for driving efficiencies for managing capacity for managing change for being able to spot risk. And it again back to existing incumbent software systems of which there are many types we were just really trying to challenge how they work and deliver a bit more granularity using the very latest technologies. The latest technologies around cloud around IoT sensors, virtual reality as you mentioned Joe machine learning analytics, there's some very nice technologies security enhancements. There's some there's some nice technologies now which which echo sense of course is based on which allows you to take very, very detailed granular multiple data sets. And then apply some machine learning analytics to deliver very tangible recommendations but again it's a lot of existing systems historical systems they are normally quite technical quite complex to use so we're trying to use the technology use the latest gaming technologies for example in the interface using the VR as you say, and just trying to make very complex PhD level analytics on mechanical on electrical workloads on airflow, but but give them in a very simple intuitive lightweight infrastructure that multiple stakeholders facilities management companies, multi tenter facilities enterprise customers Kolo, they can all get the benefits and use a very simple set of analytics to deliver very tangible benefits. And, and ultimately deliver three things it's it's always a risk reduction so spot areas of risk spot where things are trending in the wrong direction and been able to predict things before they happen and do some preventative maintenance. But then of course the payback comes in the form of significant energy savings which is the payback to put these kind of systems in and energy is always the is always the headline, but more and more again with power densities with difficulties of getting power in some regions. It's about optimizing those environments for from a capacity perspective so make sure you're using the capacity as best as you can find areas of inefficiency to allow you to, as I say to run these spaces more efficiently and get more more into the wide space ultimately. And that's ultimately what I go sense does. If we look into first in the compacts not packs. Do you have some ballpark figures or percentages of how much you help to save in a normal data center. Yeah, I mean on on average, and we work in fairly large data centers, every data center type halls are 300 racks up to the 10s of thousands of racks in the very big facilities and over a sample of 100 data centers that we've worked on. So it's a 30% cooling a energy saving across those benefit across those sites with some customers seeing significantly in advance of that 4045% saving so very significant obviously depends on the type of environment type of customer, the particular parameters that they've got. But those energy savings are usually substantial. And as I mentioned earlier, it's energy, typically the headline, but the things that are byproducts of the software of this type of system. It is the ability also, once you've got that granularity of data and that intelligent processing of data is the tangible benefits also around removal of risk identification and removal of risk, and that that capacity management. And again, it's okay taking significant chunks of energy out or delivering the benefits that I mentioned but you of course have to deliver it at a with a compelling ROI for the customer to, to of course afford it so it's been there's been a lot of work done on these types of systems and we are no different to really getting a compelling ROI so often it is less than a year and very rarely is ever above two years. Again, some of the challenges from customers very big customers will be challenged more and more to again introduce a bit of innovation, a bit of disruption around the funding model commercial models so the ability to offer OPEX type models where the service the software is funded out of energy savings so there's actually no upfront cost customer gets a saving and all that the benefits we've talked about, and it's funded entirely out of the energy savings so we're getting more and more that type of request. That's interesting. I was actually going to pick up on the customers as well I mean you've been going for six seven eight years now. And I mean, at the time I remember the first time we spoke at the conversation was even around like our customers willing to have small sensors deployed into the data center for example. What was the customer journey been like since then over the last three years, and also in terms of acceptance of having these new software and these new deployments in within the data center space have this in the benefits. Talk us through the customer journey and the acceptance of what you're doing. Some customers have absolutely embraced it they have CSR targets, corporate targets to deliver energy savings be energy efficient have significant energy targets, but then I've also got some operational challenges they want a bit of help with. So we have some well documented case studies. Again, you can't talk about all customers in our industries that every vendor has the same challenge, but the ones that we have got some very public case studies does some amazing work across across large chunks of their estate so digital realty interaction. So we've gone to Daisy where we deployed our technologies across their states and deliver some fantastic energy savings, plus the operational benefits of visibility risk and capacity. I think the market is definitely starting to wake up a little bit to innovative technologies challenges always been some of the big incumbent players, of course claim that they can deliver a lot of that very granular benefit. Not the case at all. So they they are very good at the alerting side of it as I mentioned earlier some of the trending but that granularity of data to produce actual energy savings and commit to those energy savings and deliver it. Very tangible savings that they often are not able to do that and it needs a disruptive player disruptive technology like echo sense and echo soft to do that. And to be honest, because some of those technologies that some of the big operators deployed have clearly not delivered the kind of things needed to run an efficient lean operation and deliver the benefits and deliver the capacity and energy benefits. I think it needs disruptive new technologies. As I mentioned earlier the new technologies available cloud technologies, new breed of software new breed of analytics like like echo sense and other vendors. I think it needs that innovation to really be disruptive and deliver the changes that some of the traditional players are just not able to deliver. So it has been a challenge but please to say that most of the vendors are slowly coming around to it now. It seems to be going well and looked in has you now getting to the first decade of operations is not that far away. I mean, what's what's next what you plan your UK based business. Are we looking to intercontinental expansions I mean we are still, I don't know if it's safe to say coming out of cove it but we are still going through covids which has boosted the business as well. I mean, what is the business working on for the future for the next two years. So a few things so naturally as a very ambitious scaling business like ours in geographical expansion has to be right at the forefront so we've recently taken on. Some employees incorporated in the US taken on VPS sales in various regions so a pack mere US getting some business out of Africa. Some Latin American countries so starting to geographically spread and get global reach. I think it's a given really for any kind of ambitious business like ours, but where where we're really driven and where business like echo sense that that I say that disruptive innovative business. It is of course always around the technology and the business models and customers that we've got our own pipeline of work that would see us going for a long long time but customers naturally give you another set of challenges and things they want to see. Together into a coherent roadmap. So we see it will always be a focus of ours is around the optimization that's putting the power of PhD skill sets mechanical electrical skill sets into a set of very simple intuitive easy to use analytics and interface cooling advisor which allows a customer to make those changes in a very dynamic and data center environment without the need for consultancy led engagements. Cooling advisor will always get a lot of focus and then the other big one for us in terms of technology is around the capacity management so again just challenging the way things have always been done with lots of manual methods or complex spreadsheets or real DDSIM type systems just doing again a very lightweight capacity management purely for the mechanical electrical side. We are working quite a lot on on the whole capacity management side of it and introducing some fairly significant functionality in the next six months towards the end of the year, which allows you to model and simulate some of the big central plant systems. And then finally, we will also expand and grow and help spread the message with technology partnerships so couple of very nice technology partnerships in the pipeline, a recent one that we've announced with an asset management company called assets buyer, which again is just challenging traditional ways of managing mechanical electrical and the IT side of it into a new breed of DDSIM tool, which collectively we can deliver so again I whilst we we are very good at what we do in different areas where we can collaborate and have some very nice technology integration. Well, I mean they all sounds very exciting because I mean, going circling back towards the beginning of our conversation when I met you as a very, very beginning. I think it was only a handful of you guys still working in the company at the time so it's grown a lot since then. But then if people want to find more information about ecosystem reach out, maybe read those case studies that you mentioned before as well. Okay, so delighted to have a conversation with anybody that the website echo sense.com naturally a great source of information so products, benefits, use cases. We also try and do a lot on thought leadership and explain our methods, the results we get and how we go about that. So we publish a couple of really nice white papers that are on there, one about AI machine learning to deliver optimization one about the energy saving work that we talked about. So the website's always the first source on the great source of getting information. So also a couple of very useful videos on there to give a high level summary of the software, give you some of the key features and just show you how it can help. The other the other outlet for us is LinkedIn we do a lot of work on LinkedIn and all product updates, partner news, new white papers or etc are always on the LinkedIn and we'd always encourage people to follow the company LinkedIn page. Naturally of course we've got various sales people direct and extended partner network will be delighted to help and register software demo or meet up or have a call and please just get in touch with one of the regional sales team or one of our global partners by the website. A lot of things that avenues to getting touch. Definitely always. Dean Boyle CEO Fico since thank you so much for talking to us. And thank you to our viewers for tuning into JSA TV and JSA podcasts and don't forget to check our social channels for more content. Until next time. Happy networking.