 Well, since establishing diplomatic relations on 10th of February 1971, Nigeria's relationship with China has developed into one of the most important bilateral relationships maintained by either country. Apart from the exchange of high-level visits, Chinese companies and money have found a way into Nigeria, Africa's largest economy. They are involved in a variety of major projects in Nigeria. Put differently, trade relations between Africa and Asia, especially China, has increased the prosperity of African nations. However, overcoming Africa's debt challenges will not only benefit the continent but profit its partners in Asia and the world economy as a whole. We will focus on Africa, Asia and trade an investment on the show today. Welcome to Business Insights on PLOS TV Africa. I am Justin Akadomi. Well, welcome back. Let's start with stories which meet headlines in Nigeria's business space for this week. Incidentally, the 2021 Finance Bill, a petrol subsidy among others, helps way. Take a look. A Finance Bill is a legislative bill proposing changes to taxes, levies and duties in a fiscal year. The Virtual Emergency Neck Meeting was presided over by Vice President Yamio Sibandro on Tuesday. In a statement after the meeting, Lao Luo Akonde, senior special assistant to the vice president and media said, the bill was presented to the council by Zena Ahmed, Minister of Finance, Budget and National Planning. The federal government has hinted that its subsidy on electricity tariff is about 1.0 trillion naira between 2019 and 2021. The amount represents a gap between the cost-reflective tariff and a liable tariff which pecked a 28 naira per unit of electricity supplied to consumers. These, according to the government, was largely responsible for liquidity crunch in the power sector as well as the poor power supply in the country. Consequently, it has closed its plans to realign its policies, regulations and activities of power sector operators as a means of improving electricity supply. As part of efforts to support Nigeria's mines and steel development sector, the office of the past ruler of the Abu Dhabi United Arab Emirates, his royal highness, Adam bin Khalifa, has pledged to some of 2 billion dollars to Nigeria. The donations were to further cement the closed trade and bilateral relationship that exists between the two countries. The Minister of State Mines and Steel Development, Mr Uche Chuku Ogha, made the disclosure when he delivered a special address at the Dubai World Expo 2021 with the theme Investment in Nigerian Gold Sector, Opportunities in Gold Valley Chain. It held in Abu Dhabi. On Thursday, the Nigerian Union of Petroleum and Natural Guards Workers, New Peng, suspended its planned nationwide strike. This was confirmed in a statement signed and released by New Peng's President, William Sakwareha and General Secretary, Mr Afolabi Olawale in Lagos. The statement said the strike was suspended following the intervention and engagement with government agencies and institutions, including the NNPC. Dialspora remittances in Nigeria increased by 15.6% quarter on quarter to 9.22 billion dollars in the first quarter of 2021, compared to 7.98 billion dollars, recorded in the second half of 2022. It also represents a marginal 2.2% increase compared to a 9.02 billion dollars, recorded in the corresponding period of 2022. This is according to the review of the Nigerians Balance of Payment Account as released by the Central Bank of Nigeria, CBN. The increase follows the continuation of the Nigeria for dollar initiative by the Apex Bank, which rewards recipient with five narrow for every one dollar they receive from licensed IMTOs and commercial banks. Recall that the Central Bank of Nigeria extended this initiative indefinitely earlier in May 2021, with a view to increase remittances so as to boost external reserves. And those were the stories that made business headlines for this week. Now Prince Olawale Suleiman Ayila is the president of the Asia Africa Chamber of Commerce and he joins us now to look at how these relations can be fostered. Well, many thanks for joining us on Business Insight and Plus TV Africa. Thank you very much. Alright, let's talk about, you know, this relationship that Nigeria specifically has had with Asian countries. Let's start with them, China. For over the years, the presence of Chinese goods services, you know, have made so much tremendous impact on the country. You know, so how would you say this relationship has been, is it a win-win situation for both countries or is it just one having an edge over the other? Honestly, if I must speak from my own point of view and why I have been opportune to sit on this position as the president of Asia Africa Chamber of Commerce, African continent, is because of the deep understanding of international trade between Nigeria and Malaysia, especially to start with, then we go to other part of Asia, because I must make it clear that AACC, Asia Africa Chamber of Commerce, is an organization registered under the Interior Ministry of Malaysian Government, the International Affairs Ministry. Though it is an inclusive organization for all part of Asia to participate in facilitating bilateral trade and investment development with Nigeria here. So I will answer to you on what effect have I seen and what China has been doing. Yes, it is a win-win in a way, but we would rather prefer that whatever Asians are doing with Africans should just not have the aspect of trade benefits alone. No, it should have a very, very positive impact on the social life of the people here. So this is where we come in. We don't want to trade, just come in and trade with Africa. China is signing deals with Nigerian government, we know they are doing things. And most of the things Nigerian governments are signing with China too, they consider the interest of the people before they sign such deals with China. But then, if the government is thinking of the people, they are thinking of the people as an entity, a nation, you get what I mean. But for us to think of the people is we are thinking of the ordinary people, that how is all this trade impacting on the ordinary people? So this is where we come in as AACC, one, that we want to create a situation where trade relations between Asia and Nigeria and other parts of Africa is not just a government-to-government thing, but in the other hand, it should be something that should impact the lives of ordinary people of that environment. Let me put it in a way that it shouldn't just be part of government-to-government thing. Specifically, Asia-Africa Chamber of Commerce, aside from dealing with maybe governmental organizations, do you deal with the private sector? Definitely, we'll be working with the private sector in most cases here in Africa. That's why I say, you see, when you see most of China's relation with Nigeria, especially, it is mostly a G2G team. Yeah, it is facilitated through a G2G team. But what are we thinking of the SMEs in Nigeria? This is where we come in. We want the SMEs in Nigeria to benefit from international relations and trade. So how do we let that happen? It means we have to have a clear understanding of the situation on the ground here, especially in Nigeria. China is signing a trade agreement with Nigeria, a bilateral trade agreement with Nigeria to support Nigeria's infrastructure system. Yes, it does a great job at the end of the day for the people. It does improve on our social life. But we want something more than that in our trade relationship with Asian countries. And those things that we want more than that are the target of Asia-Africa Chamber of Commerce to implement and let it show positive impact in Africa here. You will agree with me that Africa, specifically Nigeria and neighboring countries have actually benefited from this facilitation and trade from Asia. But then again, there is this notion around Nigeria that most goods brought in from Asian countries are usually of soft standard quality. So how do you ensure that Nigerians are protected, the consumers that these are, in the sense of having a value for money, so that Africa will not just be a dumping ground for goods and services exported into the continent? Thank you very much. That's a very crucial area you are touching. Because this is another area where Asia-Africa Chamber of Commerce is part of the reasons we came up with this, a new concept of trade between Asia and Nigeria. If you see on our own programs that we are looking to implement from next year, because we are creating a new dimension to international trade with Nigeria. So we are going to be collaborating with a lot of Asia manufacturers. And we are not just working on the basis of you have a product to sell to Nigeria, you have to bring a note. There are a number of factors that has been put on the ground to consider for any product that will be coming into Nigeria, for example, that how needful is this product to our society here, number one. Then how beneficial is this product to our society, number two. Then what is the quality of this product, number three. So we have created something where we call for now AVM. AVM is going to be an industrial hub in Nigeria precisely, that we are looking into establishing on about the target actors of land. And this is where the actual trading benefits between Nigeria and Asia will come up, because the concept there is that, okay, we have said that if you want to partner with us on this program, if you want to partner with us on this program now for entering into Africa market or Nigeria market, we have our own requirements to these days. The first thing is that we have to see your product, we have to check the quality control. Then next, we have a place, we have set up that all products coming in are not finished products. We don't want finished products in Nigeria, because when you bring in finished products, how are they going to benefit from that? Yeah, so we have set up a criteria whereby, okay, if you are making any product, you can start production up to 40% or 50%, maximum 60% over there in your place. But the remaining 40%, let it come down here. That's the essence of the industrial hub. The industrial hub is creating a space for our women and our youths to gain skill in the production line of this product so that in future, such skill can be transferred to them and now it could be our own for that development. So to be some sort of vertical integration where Asian companies are at different levels of production can actually come and the final product will be done here in Nigeria? Yes, exactly. This is the concept we are working on. So in that way, we'll be able to, it is not just that you produce what we don't know about. You have to educate our youths on how to produce this. So in future, we are not encouraging you to manufacture and bring. We're encouraging you to be part of our transformation program, social economic transformation program. So you come down here, produce here. When you produce here and we market and it's not just produce, excuse me, I forgot to tell you something, it is a bilateral thing. If, for example, you are producing orange juice, for example, you do need oranges to produce orange juice. I'm just using that as an example. So why do you have to bring oranges from Asia to us? When you can actually do cultivation in Nigeria. When we have a very fertile land in Nigeria here. So we would rather say, no, you grow your oranges here. If you want to manufacture your, if you want to produce your juice there, we don't mind, but you grow your oranges here. You export your orange from here. You produce your juice and we bring it back into our industrial home. And not finished even. It should come back maybe in liquid tanks and flexi tanks and the bottling comes back to be done here. So that way, it's a win-win thing for both sides. It is just not one side. They were not just being over dependent on water. They just produced and sort of dumped to us. We actually are a part of the production chain and we add value at different points in time. That's right. Because in my own opinion and my own reasoning, I have lived in, say, about six, seven countries around the world. And it is a fact that if I taste you in this country, it is made with the same chili, tomato and onions that is made here. But something, I never get the same taste from them. And it is the same tomato, the same chili. So why am I not getting the same taste? It means I'm in the fatality of the soil or however it is grown. The species itself. Even is the same species, but you still don't get the same taste. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sometimes when I come back to Nigeria and I stay one month, I get fat. Then when I get back, people say, we thought they said Nigeria is not good. People will say, if you go, I said, no. Me, when I go to Nigeria, I get fat. They say, why? I said, because that is the only place in the world where I eat what is authentic. I mean, when you talk organic, it's organic. So I see this huge potential and also I said, listen, why must you use your orange juice that I'm not enjoying the taste of the orange to make me orange juice? Why don't you come and take our own orange juice and make orange juice? So if you're selling back the orange juice to Nigeria, they will enjoy it because they know the taste. They feel it, rather than using your own. And at the same time, you are giving opportunity to them to be part of your trade. So this is what we're looking into. Let's move on right now. I have our two other angles to look at on this particular discourse. First off, Nigerians have a bit of concern. Aside from the fact that they have their sentiments, either biased or unbiased, concerning the durability and of course the quality of product and services coming from Asia, they also have this notion that Asia or some Asian countries just want to sort of marginalize Africa with their huge investment and their loans, financial involvement in some project here in Africa. So how do we draw the line to ensure that in as much as we are getting some sort of viable partnership with Asian countries, we are also being protected to ensure that at the end of the day we're not losing our souls as it were to the Asian country because a question comes to mind, or a scenario comes to mind with that of Uganda with some agreement. The only international airport is about being taken away by the Chinese company. That's right. You see in that angle, the scope is wide because what I'm saying is that it depends on the procedure of engagement between the two sides and the process of engagement. But as far as AACC is concerned and we are on ground, all projects coming to us have a standard operating procedure already. Yes, this is the way we want to do it. And we do not, because I'm in Nigeria for example and I'm a president of AACC Africa, I mean whatever I'm dealing with, I will not do anything that will marginalize my people on my own ground, because in one way I'm the face of my people too. True. And that is why I'm put on board because this is your country, this is your continent. You have an understanding of trade there and you have been in Asia for decades too with proper understanding of bilateral trade development. So how do we go about this? And I did a number of presentations on this which it is quite agreeable that I want a very balanced win-win situation. I don't want my people to lose their dignity or to lose their future just because someone is dangling a carrot at them. So we are here to observe and wonder whatever transaction we are going into does have a balancing ground. Because in Asia itself where we come from, you see it is hard for you for example I was talking to a friend in Malaysia in Sarawak two days ago who has a very vast land and I was just jokingly with him that I want some part of your land and something that I might be doing something there. He said no problem, you can do anything on the land but you can never own the land. I said why? He said it's my land. I said what do you mean it's your land? He said because in my country we don't sell land. My government doesn't allow us to sell our land. You see, so this is why I say if we are talking about getting the adequate balance it's going to be a combination of the efforts of all stakeholders which is the government itself. Are you getting me now? There are some government standing law that applies. Okay, look at the Chinese today. A Chinese man might say he comes to Nigeria and he buys a land from a Nigerian and he sold it, maybe you have a land and he wants to buy it. But is it possible in the other side like that? So this might not have anything to do with the business people. It might have to do with the government structure in that country which we can only advise the government but how do you overturn that system in the country that foreigners can no more buy land and all this, that should pass through the legislations and all that story. So the area of marginalizing us in trade I think it will be based on the understanding or the facilitation of the agreement between the two parties but for AACC whatever we are doing the interest of Africans come first in our mind because we are coming down to be part of better transformation development of bilateral trade and investment. Okay, as we round off from this particular discourse now let's try and understand them. The AACC and of course what benefits it could be for African nations in terms of scope. Is it just an old commerce affair or is it open to all African countries that have some dealings with Asia? Okay, we are open to develop bilateral development of trade and investment with all part of Africa but we are starting with Nigeria since Nigeria is our HQ and it is quite obvious Nigeria is the window to Africa and we have been on this for many years developing this and so and we have done most of the job here in Nigeria so we will be starting with most of our project in Nigeria which is extending into other African countries but we are looking into covering the whole of Africa. On the final note, you talked so far in this discourse you were talking about just bilateral agreement would there be a situation where it could move to multilateral where more than one or two African countries can actually deal with the Asians at the time? Definitely, we are moving but you must understand the problem we had for a very long time in facilitating better development of bilateral trade with Asia is basically trust because if the Asians say they don't trust the Nigerians we always tell them that the Nigerians too are very skeptical of the Asians I mean a Nigerian who is Canadian you are telling him to transfer $150,000 to you in China to buy some goods I mean if he thinks of the process that we take him to exchange his Naira into $2 and just send it to you there and at the end of the day he is not sure if something is going to come back so we are worried as much and if you tell an Asian man send your goods down here he wouldn't do it so this is where AACC comes in we want to create a better channel for this and we want to be able to allow both parties to facilitate trade we are here to assure you that no problem whatever you do we stand as intermediary and we will make sure things go between the two sides alright that's as much as we can take in all this particular things because we must say a very big thank you to you for explaining some of these great areas and of course some skepticism Nigerians and indeed Africans have a concern in trading with the Asian countries that's right thank you so much thank you so much for today we have been speaking with the president of the Asia African Chamber of Commerce and we have talked about how trade and of course the social life of Africans can be improved through a very good relationship we'll see you again next week I am Justin Acadone many thanks for watching