 So there is no greater financial or societal challenge to governments around the world than mental health disorders. One in four of us suffers from a mental health disorder. Problems of Alzheimer's disease, schizophrenia, depression, mania, all of these disorders impact on our cognitive functioning. And this consequently impacts on our ability to look after things in our home and also to work effectively. Attention deficit and hyperactivity. One in a hundred juveniles is being treated with Ritalin to make them calm and attentive. There is a constant need to advertise yourself on social media. Low self-esteem and cyber-mobbing are taking their tolls. In the past I've experienced depression and anxiety. I've tried to take my life two times in the year of 2012. It was like quite a difficult time for me. Depression, which is one of the commonest but also very serious illness. 350 million people across the world suffer from depression. The good news is that depression is very much treatable. However, majority of people do not seek treatment because depression is also stigmatized. Pills are not only taken against disorders. Healthy people take drugs to sleep or perform better. The increasing lifestyle use by healthy people of these cognitive enhancing or smart drugs. And we have to ask ourselves as a society, why are healthy people using these drugs? Why do they feel the need? Because of the pressure and stresses on us in our daily life and the global environment that we're working in that lead people to use these drugs. But governments need to promote good diet and exercise and lifelong learning because we know that exercise and lifelong learning will promote neurogenesis in the brain. So we have resilience of flourishing society which is very important. We need to start early because many of the mental health disorders start before the age of 24 years. So really we need governments to realize that mental health is every bit as important as physical health. I think that's my cue. My name is Philip Campbell. I'm the editor-in-chief of a science journal called Nature and I'm here with great pleasure actually to host a discussion under the heading mental health matters. And I think just about everybody in the world knows that mental health matters because just about everyone in the world knows of somebody who may have had a problem with mental health at some time in their lives. Certainly the attention to mental ill health is growing and also actually the attention to mental health, how to actually foster good health mentally is growing. I think what's important above all is that people are aware of other people's awareness of the problem. That is trying to reduce the stigma that can be attached to mental ill health. So for example if you look at cancer there was a time when cancer had a high stigma attached to it. People just didn't talk about it. And then in the 1920s and 30s there came a point where people could see that you could do something about cancer with surgery and early radiotherapy for example. And so the stigma went gradually reduced. The medical profession felt able to engage about it with their patients and so progress was made. And to some extent we are at a similar situation now but it's more complex than that and perhaps we'll talk about that during the session. I have four really interesting panellists here. I'm just going to introduce them by name and then I want them each to talk about their interest in the topic, what they do in their jobs and what they do in relation to mental health. Sometimes as in my case the mental health question isn't the central role of my job. But it is something as I'll explain later that I came across in a number of interesting ways. So we have here Mathieu Ricard at the end and Anmol Madan, Aris Maus and Tania Ducecavasini. And I'm going to ask them each to introduce themselves and as I say say a little bit about their interests and perhaps make a general point about what they see as the importance of this discussion. Later on incidentally you will be invited to make your own points to ask your own questions. So do think about doing that. So first Mathieu, over to you. Yes, so hello. I was trained as a scientist, I did a doctorate in Cell Genetics at Pasteur Institute. And at the same time I was travelling to Asia and met some great Tibetan masters. So after a number of years I thought that this was fascinating to study the genetic of cell division of bacterias. But I became increasingly interested in the mechanism of happiness and suffering, precisely dealing with the mind. So I decided to do my postdoc in the Himalayas for the last 45 years, happily so. And what you do for 45 years in the Himalayas is basically learning more about the mind and finding out that we deal with our mind from morning till evening and even though it's so crucial to improve the outer circumstances, still our mind can become our best friend or our worst enemy. So in a way to cultivate over the years in a resilience, in a freedom from afflictive mental state, to cultivate compassion, to cultivate attention and so forth, those are skills that give you altogether the inner resources to deal with the ups and downs of life. So to have a more healthy and optimal mind. So obviously this has a lot to do with mental health. And so 17 years ago I came back in the world of science, now collaborating with neuroscientists and psychologists in the North America and Europe, to study the effect of mind training, meditation and equivalent on the brain, how does it change functionally and structurally and on other issues like clinical application. So I've become sort of both a guinea pig and a collaborator and it was a fascinating adventure. But just to come back to the problem of mental health, when I was doing research for quite last book on altruism, I was stuck by a few numbers that I read about, for instance, the average age for the first episode of depression in Western world came from 27 years to 15 years old. That's a pretty staggering number. And then when I was studying self-compassion and self-harm, I came upon a study showing that 15% of young Europeans, from 15 to 20 or something, at some point in the year, inflicted self-harm on themselves. So clearly those few things, a clear indication of a genuine issue of getting mental health problem, getting at a younger, younger age. And so the causes of that is a whole fascinating field of study and what remedy we could offer. Thank you very much. I was going to ask you a follow-up question. You mentioned neuroscience, psychology, meditation. You've obviously had a great deal of experience working with researchers. I said that the stigma attached to cancer diminished when people realized that you could deal with it. What's your sense of progress in dealing with depression, for example, and anxiety given these different sciences? And does basic neuroscience, the understanding of the molecules and the channels in the brain, as it were, have as much importance as psychology, which is a more global picture of what's going on? So recently I joined a symposium on contemplative studies in San Diego with 1,200 real scientists. Not too many new age staff. It was a real psychologist measure. And then there was a review of 30 years of study by Zinder Segal on the intervention of mindfulness-based cognitive therapy. It's a mixture of about 80% of meditation and about 20% of cognitive therapy to help you deal with depression. And now many studies have confirmed, both in the U.S. and U.K. and Canada and Switzerland, that this intervention that is chiefly focused on mindfulness can reduce 30% to 40% the risk of relapse for people who are at least two episodes of severe depression. And when you, it's about the same effect as medication, but the protection effect after one year or two remains while if you stop medication it won't. And the way it has to do with mental health or the way you deal with your mind is the main protective effect that people become familiar with the process of excessive rumination and distortions. And that's the indicator, the precursor sign that you are going to be again into depression when you keep on ruminating all the time and everything is wrong and you see the future only in a bleak way and you develop it yourself. All this rumination, through this mindfulness-based cognitive therapy you get now the tools to deal with that and therefore you're less vulnerable to fall back into depression. So I thought this was a very encouraging sign to look after 30 years of research. That's wonderful. Thank you so much. Anmol Madan, please tell us about yourself. Thank you for having me. It's a true privilege to be part of the open forum. My name is Anmol. I am actually a computer scientist, machine learning person in my training. You might be wondering what are you doing in a mental health panel. And so I want to talk about, you know, for myself and my journey but also for a lot of people here, I think so we are, you will hear this from Tonya from other people. We are in the middle of a global crisis in mental health and the solution isn't just hiding more doctors or training more doctors. The solution to delivering better, higher quality care at lower costs, which I believe is really possible, is actually bringing in technology in a variety of different places. And so a lot of what we work on, I run a company called Gingerio in San Francisco where a digital health company is, we really sort of focus on how do you take mental health which today has a very stigmatized view when you sort of sit in the waiting room in a doctor's office. How do you provide any time, anywhere, care from your smartphone? And part of that is technology but part of that is also how you position yourself. I don't think even the person who is severely clinically depressed wants to install a depression app. They want to install a happiness app. They want to install an app that makes sure they have the best relationships, they have the best life, they can go back and find work-life balance, they can handle postpartum pain or depression, if they are a caregiver they want to be able to be that successfully. And I think technology plays a role in providing access and we do that using texting via video via other channels to scale that up. I think the other big opportunity here in reducing costs in the mental health care as we think of governments and societies is by targeting the light care at the right time. And this is a very interesting day for the US but one of the big problems we have is we sort of send people to psychiatrists directly and you don't have to go to a $600 psychiatristing at a prescription. A lot of times people just want to talk to someone, get some immediate help, get some self-care using tools like CBT and such on their phone. And I think so it's my view of the world is obviously it's a huge challenge you'd hear this from the panel but I think we have some incredible opportunities to really tackle this channel in the next decade and I'm really excited for this community to be such an important part of helping that so thank you. Thank you. So there was a point in nature where we published a paper that came from Google and it was showing that if you tracked the searches in Google you could detect flu a week before an outbreak of flu, a week before the standard mechanisms. What about detecting mental illness using social media? Can you see that happening? So my PhD research is actually using various kinds of sensor data and essentially predicting when people are likely to be symptomatic. So and we actually did have something indirectly in nature at some point with some bunch of other authors but if you think of what depression actually is and just use this as an example for what a psychiatrist looks for or psychologist looks for. There are some characteristic changes in a person's behavior. You have a hard time getting up and going to school or going to work. You change who you interact with. Your sleep cycle is disrupted. The way you talk actually changes. And so these are all things that can be measured using smartphones, using online tools, using a variety of different sensors. And if you can figure out when a person has these early symptoms and that's some of the things that we do in our company and you get them, you send them a little message and you're like, hey, is everything okay? Do you want to talk to someone? And you avoid them coming to the ER two weeks later and having an admission. That's a great way to build an efficient mental health delivery system. And it's an incredible experience for the end user because you got help right now. It's a much better experience for their families because you saw a family member supported. Thank you very much. Harris, over to you. Hi, so I'm delighted to be here. My name is Iris Moss and I'm an associate professor of social and personality psychology at the University of California in Berkeley. And in my research, so I'm a social psychologist primarily but my research is really at the intersection of social psychology and clinical psychology. What I'm interested in is how emotions and how people regulate their emotions and social processes affect people's psychological health and well-being. And so that's my connection to mental health and in particular I'm interested in what happens to people when they experience stress, losing a loved one, conflict, financial problems, poverty, and so forth. And what you see is that people respond on average with great suffering and ill mental health, mental illness to experiencing stress, but not everybody. So many people are what we call resilient. And so in my research, I'm interested in finding out why and how some people are resilient while other people experience mental illness in the wake of stress. And I want to just highlight very briefly, I say mental illness and that's, of course, you all know, but I just want to make it explicit. It really had to a genius group of things. We're talking about psychosis, depression, anxiety disorders, ADHD, suicide, self-harm. And so I just want us all to keep in mind that that's a really heterogeneous group of phenomena. And so that's really, but we don't have the time to discuss each one separately. So in terms of what's important here, oh, I also want to say in my research, we look at not just the processes that can cause people to become ill, but also the processes that could prevent illness to emerge in the first place and also what are the best interventions like mindfulness based one and why do they help people and do they help people above and beyond unspecific or very basic interventions that we could deliver over the internet, for example. So my interest in mental health is based on my research, but also more globally, I think, mental health. As a psychologist, it's staggering how much less resources in terms of research and intervention are given to addressing mental health compared to physical health. And so I want to argue for increasing parity there. And at the heart, I think of why mental health receives fewer resources and why it's such a crisis, I think, is the stigma that's still attached to mental health. And I'm from the US, so mainly I'm familiar with that context. But I think it's a global thing that we stigmatize, meaning devalue people who have mental illnesses. And that's social psychology known as a two-way process, where it's something that we impose on those we perceive to have mental illness, but also those of us who are struggling with mental health impose on ourselves. And so I think at the heart of addressing lack of resources that are given to help address mental health issues lies stigma, which is a really complex process. But I think we can address it, and we have to address it. If I can just ask a question about resilience that you talked about. So the way in which people respond, it's commonly said there's a genetic component in terms of the way they behind the way they respond. The genetic component can include genetics that responds to environments in different ways. And then there are just the environmental experiences that people have had in their upbringing and whatever. In your work, are you trying to disentangle those elements, or are you just focusing on one of them? And can you give a hint of where you've seen a factor in resilience that took you by surprise even? Yeah, so that's a great question. And it has really important implications for more generally not just resilience, but how we see mental health and mental illness. So absolutely there's a genetic component in determining who will be resilient and who will show the ill effects of stress. And the genetics we can't do much about. And so as a social psychologist and as someone who wants to intervene, I'm very interested in understanding that component. But I'm also really interested in understanding things that we can do more about or more directly about than the genetic component of mental illness. And so it turns out that people have quite a bit of leeway in terms of shapeable, malleable factors that can help them become more resilient, given a particular genetic, given a particular set of early lifetime experiences. And so we know from interventions and not just psychotherapeutic ones, but also more generally lifestyle interventions, social psychological interventions that target people's beliefs, that target people's emotions, like what you would call mind training, and that target people's abilities to regulate their emotions, that you can do quite a bit about how resilient you're going to be when you experience stress, and more generally to improve mental health if you're struggling with mental health issues. So genetic component is there, but people can overcome that, even if they start later in life. I do want to note that I think that the earlier we start with interventions, the better, because then skills are more malleable. And if you can nip it in the bud, if you will prevent symptoms even from occurring, that's better. But hope is never lost. Absolutely. Thank you for that. So Tania, I do say Covisini, please tell us about yourself and your interest in this topic. Thank you, Philippe. Krutimi Danand, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Tania, and I'm the Swiss Ambassador for Global Health. I actually represent the Swiss government here in this debate. And I'm going to tell you why I think mental health is important. There are three high. The first, it is a very high public health and economic burden. The figures are staggering in terms of how much are the costs of mental health issues. But it'll also pose a very high stigmatization, as Aris just said. So stigma is still a common element. People actually don't say that they suffer from depression or mental disorders. The third one is that it leads to high human rights violations. In many countries worldwide, we actually do not recognize mental illness. And so there are lack of dignity. And people actually are led to be violated in terms of their human rights and dignity. It is a very low priority, unfortunately. If I look at the figures in how much we are investing in mental health, the figures are very low and distressing. And it is leading to a large treatment gap. So high public health and economic burden, high stigma leading to high human rights violation. It is a low priority and spending, which leads to large treatment gaps. In Switzerland, it is one out of five persons that actually is treated mentally ill. But actually, if we pause the question to population living in Switzerland, 30% of them say that they actually suffer or have suffered from depression in their life. 30%, that's quite high. If you think of certain elements of mental health, one that is a very common one is Alzheimer's disease and dementia. Actually, you have a new case in this world of Alzheimer's or dementia every three seconds. Every three seconds. There is no cure for this. And yet, it is one of the biggest burden that we are facing. So Switzerland has been putting the issues of mental health very high on the agenda of the World Health Organization. Switzerland with India, where the two countries that put the mental health issues to WHO in 2012, which led to the adoption of the Global Action Plan that is going to work until 2020. But Switzerland also put Alzheimer's disease on the agenda. And so I'm very happy that we are going to be adopting a Global Action Plan, this May, at the World Health Assembly, that is actually encouraging every country to deal with mental health issue and dementia specifically. I think I'm going to stop there. OK. The question, I wanted to ask you the question that this whole session is about, because you are in the position you are. What I was given here in the document as the explanation, as it were, or the detailed question that we're asking, it is a Swiss question, but of course, this is a global issue. Mental health issues are estimated to cost the Swiss economy around 19 billion Swiss francs, equivalent to 3.2% of GDP per year in lost productivity, health care, and social spending. What can we now do to mitigate the consequences of mental illness? Very general question. I did want to mention one project that I was involved in, and you saw on the video Shekhar Saxena, who's head of mental health at the WHO. The World Economic Forum did a project about mental health in the workplace or in the organization in which you work. And there's a free document on the website of a charity. And that was about how employers or employees, for that matter, can take steps within their workplace. I'm just interested to know what the culture is in Swiss workplaces, and is that something that you, the government, can do something about? So we've just had two major reports published in last December by two various institutions in Switzerland actually putting facts and figures on what is happening in Switzerland in the area of mental health. But you're right, Phillip, the elements of the role of employers is huge. And I would actually put not an ABC of mental health, but an APC. I think the first element that we need to do, and it's been recognized by those reports, is to raise the element of awareness that we could freely say, you know what, I have been suffering from depression. And dementia means this, so that people are aware of the reality that their fellow citizens may be facing at the workplace, at school, in homes. So I think that's the first element. It's raising the awareness, and we still have a lot to do in this respect, not only in Switzerland, but of course worldwide. Employers have been also kind of sensibilized to the issues. And there are some employers that have taken clear measures. Others haven't yet. And of course, the elements of those reports is to encourage employers also to do action in terms of responsibility in making sure that their surroundings and the mandatorial system is actually conducive to help their employees give out their full potential and productivity and being respected and dignified. Right. Absolutely. I thought I would just say a little bit about a project that I'm involved in, because I think it is of interest. So, I mean, having been at nature now for many years, we published papers on the biology of mental health, mental ill health, psychiatric disorders, and Alzheimer's. And to see the progress has been superficially impressive. What I mean by that is when you read these scientific papers, it is in the nature of things that academics are excited about their results. And they say this has potential for this, that and the other. But the truth of the matter is a lot of this very reductionist study of the way the brain works is going to take decades to really deliver the results that are going to be felt by people. That's not always true, but in some cases, and that has been the true in cancer, for example. And yet, at the same time, we do know, as we've heard on this panel, there are things that people can do about mental health. So, I was for many years a trustee of a charity funding research in cancer called Cancer Research UK. And Cancer Research UK, I don't know if this is a particularly British sort of culture thing, but it raises, it is the biggest charity in the UK for fundraising, and it raises 400 million pounds every year. Actually, now I think it's more like 500, because I left about five years ago, 500 million pounds a year directly from the public, no government, no industry, pure giving by the public. And that's all for biology. That's all for funding biology. The little bit of stuff about preventative research, a little bit about palliative medicine, but on the whole, it's about biology. So somehow, the imagination of the public has been captured to help with cancer at that sort of scale. And many people leave money in their wills, and about 40% of that comes in that sort of giving, and then they have shops and so on. So, somebody like, I was very struck, as has been said before, about the disparity between that and mental ill health, and the sport for that. And I have my own interest in this. I have a sister with schizophrenia. But also, the thing that really struck me was just the human tragedy you see in the streets of London, in particular, which is where I live, but also in places like San Francisco, where people are on the streets, and in Berkeley, people are on the streets, and you know that a lot of them have these mental conditions, and they will have some sort of government support in many cases, but nothing like enough to make a difference for them. And similarly, prisons are one of the main places where people are actually held with mental illness. So there's this huge societal disparity, a huge burden, and yet the money spent on research, and indeed on treatment, is much, much less. So we set up a charity with the help of a gift from a foundation to kick us off, 20 million pounds. And we're just getting going. Now, this two weeks ago, we started a public campaign in England, but we're funding people around the world in actual research on mental health. So I thought you might be interested to know that there is a way of tackling this disorder, which comes directly from the public. And I have no idea whether something like that might grow in Switzerland, but certainly it's there beginning to happen in Britain. The stigma side of it doesn't so far seem to have been an obstacle. Going to the public, you find a huge responsiveness to just the issue of mental health, mental ill health. And some of the funding is gonna come from wealthy individuals, and there a lot of people have, just like anyone else, have problems in their families, and they are willing to give quite substantial sums of money. Half a million pound we were given quite recently in the gift by one person who just liked the way the charity is working. So I just wanted to give that sense of hope as well, that there are people out there who can put money into supporting what is an under-supported area of research. So we'll have a little bit more of a conversation about this, but it is your opportunity to ask questions or to make points yourself. And the reason I think that's very important is that the more people share their experience or their beliefs about mental illness, making it clear that it is out there, that's good for us all. But also the people on this platform are people who can be influenced by you, and the way we think about it can be influenced by you. So before we go on, I wanted to ask, is there somebody with a roving microphone so that when somebody wants to put up their hands? Okay, we have it here. All right, so if you want to say anything, if you just put up your hands, I'll try and make sure we come to you. So there's someone right down here, and I see no reason why we shouldn't go straight to the audience. So she's, sorry, she's right down. Oh, we have one on both sides, so there's one coming down there. Hello, a wonderful introduction. Thank you. My name is Donna Jones. I'm from Vancouver, Canada, and my work is with organizational transformation and leadership transformation at a consciousness level. In the work that I have been doing, I noticed in organizations where there are high trust environments, safe, psychological safety, backup connection, common sense of purpose, you're not going to find mental illness. You're not going to find depression. In other organizations where there is more of a command and control management style, of course you're going to find it there. So it disturbs me greatly that we're still talking about stigma because it seems to me that it's just a lazy way of blaming something and not really looking more deeply. And the other question is related to that, and this is where I'd appreciate your comment, is that it seems to me what we're really talking about is are we not simply denying and repressing the power of the human spirit? We have as a backdrop increased complexity, it's not going to go away, it's going to get stronger. We have increased uncertainty because from a systems theory point of view, as things collapse, the linear collapses, and more of a wider view emerges, we need everyone on deck to handle that. And those statistics, and particularly the young ones, are extremely disturbing because that is where the creative power comes from. So I'd appreciate your comments on that. Thank you, thank you very much. Okay, I'm happy to start with Mathieu if you want to respond to that. And I think everyone can probably have something to say in response to that, so. Well, I think it's quite clear that the environment as a use role, working environment especially, we know about burnout, I mean not the healthcare burnout, but the professional burnout that people start to blame themselves because it builds up, builds up, builds up, builds up. But in fact, it is because the environment is not conducive to expressing your capacity or you are stuck between hierarchy or something that goes wrong and it piles up and in the end you just, you know, burn out. So it's not the rotten apple, but the barrel that is rotten. So in that sense, of course, a proper environment that is suitable and we know very well that a place where it's happy to work is also a place where everything goes better, whether you are a company or anything. And what it means to be happy to work usually is a high level of good quality of human relationship. That's probably the main factor. If everybody is cooperating, sharing information, behaving nicely to each other. So in that sense, improving the quality of social or human relation is crucial. And so there are many ways of doing that. You could reinvent organization in a more auto-organizing way, the hierarchical machine type way, more like a growing organism. Plenty of endeavors have been done in that direction. But that shows clearly the two-fold, two ways of dealing with your mind and also having the proper environment. And we should not neglect either of those. Say everything is from working with the mind or the mind doesn't matter because in the end it's the mind that experiences all that and resilience is the quality of the mind. But we have to do it in a holistic way and there's no other way. No, it's suddenly a different atmosphere in Wall Street and in Tibetan Monastery, it's not the same environment. I don't know if it's true. I think that's an excellent point and I could not agree more. And clearly, you seem to know about this also places like Google I think have invested in this sort of thing. We work with a number of mid-sized, large companies in the US across all 50 states. A lot of the conversations, in fact, even here, if you look at what's going on, is people are sleeping fours a night, they're eating unhealthy, they're just going boom, boom, boom from discussion to discussion and you do that for two weeks, what do you think is gonna happen? And I think and within anxiety, depression, stress, not talking about sort of schizophrenia and some of the other stuff. I mean a majority of that is actually can be to some extent managed using good behavior hygiene and just eating well and sleeping better and all of that and how do you create a way in which every person in your organization whether you're a government or an employer can seek help and they can do it privately, they can do it confidentially, they can do it in a stigma free way, they don't have to seek. It doesn't matter how it is here in Europe but in the US, I use the US as an example or other countries example, like we have something called EAP programs, employee assistance programs. And 97% of companies have, they give you a card and it's in like tiny four point font and they says this is the line you call when you are sad and it is the worst user experience in the world. The average usage of EAP programs is under 1%. And it's there, everybody checks it off. I have an EAP program so I think we have to change that and some companies and some organizations are absolutely leading the way in that so. Thank you. Boris? Oh, I think it's a really interesting question and it's really hopeful to think that some companies seem to do everything right and to me the interesting question or one really interesting question within that is how do those companies arrive at being willing to transform their whole approach to mental health? And so we could take that perhaps as a model for how we could transform other organizations that aren't there yet, but also as whole societies. How could we change our attitudes toward mental health and then the resources that we allocate to addressing mental health? And that's actually more tricky than it sounds, right? Our first or an intuition might be you just give people information and then they're gonna implement all the right steps. But as we've seen recently in Brexit, maybe the American elections too, giving people facts doesn't actually necessarily change their minds and sometimes it can actually backfire. If you give people information that they don't want to hear, they're not gonna change their minds and so actually changing attitudes about mental health is a really important and really tricky thing to do and a couple of ways in which I think we might be able to do that is to change on a general level the way people with the way mental illness is portrayed in the media in a more contextualized manner, so not just giving people facts, but changing the way they're represented and the way mental illness is seen. And the other approach that seems to work is to increase contact in an enlightened way. Again, you don't want to just throw people together, but really have people who consider themselves healthy interact with people with mental illnesses. So that contact seems to work in transforming attitudes that we all have about mental illness and then maybe even more deeply, I think we need to acknowledge that mental illness is not something that's over there and those who are healthy right now are different, but rather we need to highlight that there's a common humanity element to this. Mental illness occurs on a continuum where each of us has some element of mental illness within us and mentally ill, people have some element of mental health within them. So it's not that we're different groups of people, but we're all humans. And so I think transforming that view at a very deep level of mental illness would help in getting all of us on board to be more like the companies that you're talking about. Two ways I'd like to address your question. The first, from a policy perspective, let me go back to my APC, basically the awareness raising. I think we still need on a policy level to really make sure that we talk about it and we include this in the holistic approach. The P being the prevention and the early detection. And I think there are ways here that we can be much more active in making sure that we do prevent mental disorders and stress and over not being able to cope with the day-to-day factor. And I think the third one being the care one, so moving from the hospitals to primary care and to community setting and embedding it in the normal conversation on how are you coping with the fact that you are ill and sick and including the mental and the physical together. And that is still not being done at a primary care level. So that's the policy part. Now, from a more leadership and transformational and organizational side, I find it interesting that the trends across the, the last CKs of Harvard Business Reviews leadership style moved from the leadership, management, productivity and all those great things that you can do to mindfulness and the latest one being empathy. So for me, moving more to the mindfulness and empathy shows how mental is coming to the forefront and the awareness is more and more there. So I find it as a positive sign. The question is, how can we use it more and not go into the denial part that you were mentioning it. So I would just mention since we've talked about supportive environments, a partial answer to making people aware of such places where they exist is this document that I was talking about which we set up at this little group within the World Economic Forum of people who come from businesses where they have been supportive of the mentally ill. And so we took case studies of exactly how that works in these companies. These are all big companies and it's, but I'll just tell you the name of the document. It's called Seven Actions Towards a Mentally Healthy Organization and you can Google it and it's freely available. And we just took these experiences and documented them and also pointed people towards websites where there was just other ways in which one could be helped. So because I do agree that a supportive workplace but also school place is important, I thought I would just go back along the panel quickly and just ask whether there are examples and then we'll come down to another question. Whether there are examples you want to highlight that show the way in which, especially at the policy level in Switzerland, we could push further to make places to encourage people to be more. So I'll come back to you, Tanya, at the end as it were, but if each of the red, that you just want to give examples of what you've seen that seem to represent that, if you have, I mean, just. Well, I think you touch upon a very key issue that is actually we do not address mental health for children. That's actually overall in Europe, we still are very bad at really addressing this. 15 to 20% of children have mental health disorders. Do we have specific services for them? They're only starting now. They have only been starting in the last few years. But do we have adequate services for them? I think we still at the very beginning of it. And this is linked to the low investment and to the low also preparedness also and qualification of staff. So I think I'd be very cautious about this and I'd be very candid and honest to say, well, worldwide we need to do much more. Also, if you look at the mental disorders, the numbers of women suffering from depression is huge and many of them will not actually express it. Interesting to see that suicides in Switzerland, there are actually up to three suicides in Switzerland per day. Two of them are men. So basically, it's already too late to actually talk to the men about how they are actually feeling mentally. So see, we still at the beginning, this is what I was saying very candidly at the beginning, it's a low priority. If I look at the figures of how much do we invest in mental health, the average figures that I got from World Health Organization in Europe is about an average of 6% of the health spending in Europe. In Switzerland, it's 10%, so it is in the Netherlands and in the UK. It is a very small figure. So I think we need to address this very much more holistically but also by segmentation, if I would be allowed to use a marketing word and also look at how we can actually be much more targeted. We've done this, let me just finish with that. We've done this in Switzerland by developing strategies at the national level for addiction and also looking at addiction for children with computers. We're doing this with a new plan on suicide prevention and also, of course, the non-communicable diseases in general. Okay, thank you. Sure, two data points here. So two quick data, one data point and one comment. So I don't know the solution for adolescents and younger populations. I can tell you what we are seeing in promise. In the last 18 months, and we're in the US only, in the last 18 months, we've screened about 750,000 people for anxiety and depression. And there's a fundamental shift when younger people, millennials, adolescents seek help. This traditional model of I'm gonna go call a doctor, I'm gonna sit in the waiting room, it doesn't work. They go to the app store, they go online, they look for the first tool, they install it, they're like, why am I not getting help right now? And I think a system of the future has to understand that and has to take account for that. I don't know how we scale, how that works so people who are under the age of 18 and all sorts of legal and regulatory issues have to be worked out globally and not just in Switzerland. And, but I think that's where we have to recognize that the behavior of people has changed and our healthcare systems have to adapt to that new behavior. Otherwise, we're just going to be like the taxi company. If you actually, I just want to ask you and anyone on the panel, if you wanted to document the prevalence of teenage mental ill health, but not the prevalence as recorded with doctors, but the real prevalence, do you think you could do that? Do you think it is possible to do that? I think there's definitely a promise on how we can create, and this goes back to your Google Flu Trends example and I think that's the future. Would I say that we have the most robust indicator in the world? I don't know, I mean, are we on the right path? I think yes. I want to address the second point and we've heard this a couple of times and we talk about, and sorry if this is controversial, I apologize, but we've spoken a little bit about cost, right, and we've spoken about we don't have the resources and all this other stuff and I think there are some segments where it's not, we spend a lot of money and I'm talking probably about the US system and that's all I'm familiar with, we spend a lot of money. I think the question is, are we spending our money on the tools and the technologies of the future or are we doing the same thing as we did 50 years ago? And tradition is great. I mean, look, I have a tremendous amount of specialist culture, I've been very privileged to be here, tradition is great when you're making a certain kind of cheese. It may not be the best thing when you are designing a healthcare system of the future. And that's just an example of something I ask and sorry if it's a little... No, no, no, no, don't apologize. I was from my point of view, it's a good thing to have said and I do want to come back to this but there was a question down here so if you can have a microphone and a question there too. So let's take two, okay, now all the hands are going up. Excellent, okay, so we'll start here and then I guess we'll work back a little bit and we'll see how we get on. Hello, my name is Detlef Schmidt, I'm a business manager and I'm really following this whole thing about like depression, mental health and very interested in this topic. I really liked the discussion so far but what I'm missing here is we talk about a lot about like reactive solution solving and basically delegating the resolving of the problem to the individual and also like to organizations. I'm asking myself, is this like really fair? Should this whole thing about like resolving and maybe preventing, shouldn't this be like more on a government level to basically prepare society to the challenges that we're all facing, the enhanced complexity and the dynamic to basically train society about becoming resilient here. Okay, that's an interesting question. I do have an example that also answers the earlier questions about examples at a local government level and it comes to mind because I love that example because it is admittedly local but still a government initiated program and it's in Berkeley where I live, the whole school districts have started to give, it's preventative and it's also based in research which is really important for obvious reasons and so basically all children in the Berkeley school district receive these tools and it's called the Emotional Toolbox and as a social psychologist I'm especially happy to see that those tools focus on emotions which makes sense as emotions are at the core of many, many different types of mental disturbances and mental illness and on social processes and again social disconnect is absolutely at the core of many different types of mental illness and so the thinking is that if we're intervening at those two core processes, improving emotions and improving social connection, then we can help prevent not just one specific disorder but perhaps many different ones and perhaps not just prevent problems but increase well-being on the whole and just to give two examples for these emotional tools that the children learn, one is basic empathy trying to see how other children feel, another is awareness of emotions and then the third is regulating one's emotions. There are many different occasions to feel stress and negative emotion for children in schools and so they learn how to cope with those negative emotions so that's I think one example for an intervention at this preventative organizational level that might be along the lines of what you were suggesting on a government level that doesn't just put other responsibility on individuals or individual organizations and then hopes for the best and I think much more research-based interventions are needed along those lines. Just a quick question, could we find that on the web, exactly what you've just talked about? I believe so and it would be under emotional toolkit, yeah, the toolkit. Tania, did you want to come back to Mathew in a minute? Do you want to say something? Very briefly, as you know, the healthcare system in Switzerland is actually on the responsibility of the contents and so the contents have put in place structures to actually engage with the prevention and address mental health issues with children. What we've been noticing and what the report shows is that there is a tendency by parents to rely straight away on system and external help than finding resources themselves in encouraging the children and giving them the trusting element and the resilience to actually address and cope with it first. So we've also seen a way of parenting moving straight to external help which were not necessarily the case before. Interesting to note that there are two women leaders that have been putting this very strongly on the agenda. It is Teresa May recently with her very strong advocacy speech on mental health as well as Minister of Health Jane Philpott of Canada. So UK and Canada interestingly and thus are taking a lead now in talking about mental health issues and children specifically. Mathieu? Well, there are some government initiatives here and there. For instance, in British Columbia, in Canada, the emotional intelligence is in the curses and there are also sort of more individual endeavors but which are spread quite a lot as an educational person called Mark Greenberg in the United States doing emotional literacy. He found out that the children, most of the frustration and sometimes conflicts come from not recognizing the other's emotion because you cannot identify properly your own emotions. So he had little cards and when you feel a strong emotion, you pull the card, it is surprise, fear, or contempt and then gradually whereas they become more literate in their own emotion, then they become more aware of the others and it works. There are also things like the mindfulness and kindness curriculum that Richard Davidson has been devising with preschoolers in Madison that has remarkable effect in dealing with emotional disturbances, reducing conflict and also reducing discrimination between your best friend, your less-favorite friends. So there's all of those local also endeavor and some are accompanied with scientific studies and on the hands-on, like we started, I don't know, about 50 schools in the Himalayas for children and we make a point that there's time for meditation, for concentration and also sort of kindness and it certainly changes the atmosphere of the class and you will be surprised also how very young kids ask questions that adults don't dare to ask anymore and what is time, not a question about that. So those, when they can get answered to those questions, it contributes a lot to their emotional and mental health, emotional balance. Thank you very much. So we have another question down here and then we'll move back. Yes, I'll try and get to, if we can keep the questions short and the answers short now because we have a lot of hands going up. Yes, thank you. I can take, thank you very much and it was really interesting listening to you. First of all, I quote the US Constitution, life, liberty and right to the pursuit of happiness. So especially today, this is very important. What I mean by quoting the US Constitution is that it is important to empower people, empower people to take time for happiness. I for myself have snatched 20 minutes every morning to do yoga, not because I'm an Indian, just because I'm a human being. And the second thing I have recently taken charge of is to go for a night walk before going to bed for half an hour and that has, is changing my life. So that's an advice. The other thing is I work for a Alzheimer company based in Lausanne so and we are developing drugs in Alzheimer and I'm very happy that Tania has taken up the issue on Alzheimer. And my night job is to help start a woman's initiative in Switzerland on Alzheimer because women are more affected by dementia and Alzheimer. And if you allow me, I'm not a woman so I cannot talk on behalf of women. So I give the word to Maria Teresa to say a few words about this. Thank you. Hello everyone. My name is Maria Teresa Ferretti and I'm a junior group leader at University of Zürich. So I'm a scientist and my specialty is on Alzheimer's disease. But today I'm not gonna talk about only Alzheimer in general, quite a few mental disorders like depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder. Not everybody knows that Alzheimer, depression, anxiety affect women more than men. In the case of Alzheimer, two-thirds of patients are actually women and not only the prevalence but also the severity of the symptoms is worse in women than men. So I find this a very important topic that I would like to add and I would like to hear your comments on it. And my take as a scientist is that there is something very interesting here to study. For me as a scientist, I'm really fascinated by the sex factor so there is something in the biology of the woman brain that makes them more vulnerable to mental disease and I'm writing a review on this topic and I think this is something the scientific community should address. On the other side, we have the gender factor. So there is something related to the feminine role in the society where women's are the ones that take care of their children, they drop their jobs, they don't sleep at night because we have children to look after. When there is, actually when there is a demented mother or grandmother in the family is the women that again drop their jobs and become caregivers. So there is something in the biology and there is something in the society that we should take into consideration and maybe this is something we should address and think about ways to support the mental health of women specifically because they are more affected. Thank you very much. So I'm just going to take those as two really helpful comments on awareness raising and we'll move on back to, okay, there's a lady in a gray shirt putting her hand up. She's over there, please. Can you see her there? Yeah, yeah. I'm a psychoanalyst and an author and I've written a book about the importance of resilience in children. I'm also from America and we have a crisis of mental illness in children and adolescents and young adults in America. And we actually know quite a bit about resilience. We understand that resilience is not something we're born with. Resilience is something that is put into us through sensitive nurturing in the first thousand days. We talk a lot about nutrition being important in the first thousand days but what we don't talk about in society is that one in five women are postpartumly depressed and that's only the ones that we know about. So when a mother comes into my practice which is a parent guidance practice and says that I'm bored or I'm disinterested in my baby, we actually don't diagnose that woman with postpartum depression. So I think there really is quite a bit to be done in terms of helping to assess and diagnose women at a very early stage, helping them to connect with their babies, to attach properly and attachment doesn't just happen in the first three months, it happens in the first three years. So what I say in my book is more is more. The more emotionally available and physically available, a primary caregiver or mother can be in those first three years. The better chance that baby has of being resilient as they go into life. Thank you very much. We'll take one more comment and then we'll come back to the panel in case you want to react. So yeah, why don't we go over here? So where's the microphone? This guy in the, yes, that's fine. Thank you. I'm Jerry Zaid. Oh, I represent an organization, a founder of an organization for unwanted children in a very poor part of the Eastern Himalaya, what the Chinese call South Tibet. We give these unwanted children home, family, love, compassion, Buddhist concepts of love and compassion. From a very early age, I think Dr. Mauss said earlier, we can intervene the better and I think education is critically important. These children have all been through incredible early childhood trauma and they turn into being blossoming flowers, opening up real members of the community. And on the ACEs test, early childhood negative experiences, they rank very, very high, but on resiliency, the scientific literature has never shown marks as high as these children have. And so I think education, education everywhere, education in the U.S. needs to play a bigger role in creating positive-minded, empathetic children. Where could we find more details about that project if we'd Googled it? I wish you could Google it. The study was led by a doctor from University of Washington, Dr. Frank James, and he is in the process of publishing, hasn't done it. Okay, thank you. So we'll have some more questions in a minute. Does anyone want to respond? You don't have to respond to everything, but Suiz? Well, a little bit about the post-traumatic syndrome, sort of, reactivity. Yes, there have been a few studies that in Bangladesh and in among Tibetan refugees that somehow I went from New Zealand and if I went from Denmark, I believe I don't have again the names of the authors, showing that those children and other youngsters that have been through very traumatic experiences when either being tortured or when trying to flee the country, and they showed much less post-traumatic disorder. And in Bangladesh, in Florida areas, there were studies of a Buddhist community versus other cultures, and they also found less post-traumatic disorder. So the question is, you know, what factor in the culture, in the worldview, maybe in the social structure, helps to mitigate the post-traumatic disorder? And I've met a few young kids who had been at 12, 12 years old, taken by the Nepalese police, put in the opaque plastic bag and throw it in the river for a play and five or six times they thought they were dying. And then after a few weeks, they were just looking quite okay. So there's something there to be studied. There's just preliminary investigation, but it's interesting how much the social factor or cultural factor would affect that. Right, thank you. Someone? Quick, a few quick comments. So emotional support and some of the things you mentioned, I mean, I just want to highlight in case people didn't make that connection by giving people all those tools that actually has a very direct impact on costs as well. So we talk about, you know, we've cost that too high, but if more people are working on their own, we directly can scale, support, and probably even reduce costs. You know, we spoke about women 100% agree. We see that in our data. I just want to call it one thing that I don't understand myself, which is with men, is it because there is, in most cultures and many cultures, you know, you're not supposed to seek help as a man. You're not the one who's like the weak one. My favorite example of marketing to men for therapy is, this is like weird YouTube video, you can find it, it's called man therapy. And it's basically like macho lumberjack with like a bottle of scotch talking about his feelings. And it's like hilarious. But I do think, especially when we talk about veterans in PTSD and a variety of other sections of society, you know, older men who are by themselves don't have families living with them. I don't understand how much of that is not seeking care. And then I just say one more thing, you know, connecting few dots. The thing that scares me today is, and this is a sort of cultural societal issue, is I wonder if there's just been a fundamental shift of, you know, one of the big pillars of good mental health is social fabric, is strong social ties. And has that, have you just moved through age where people just, and question for the younger people, is people just don't know how to form social relationships, at least in the U.S. where the family culture isn't as strong as Europe? And is that going to mean that we're just stuck with this mental health epidemic with no way to turn it back, so I don't know. Let's pick up that question, Aris. Do you want to talk about that? Are we diminishing in our capacity to form social relationships as we go down through into the younger generations? Across the ages. Well, there's certainly an impression that use of social media and computers, screen time is diminishing people, that's of course correlated with age, so younger people use social media, et cetera, much more than older people. So there's certainly the impression that there are less strong social ties, social abilities are deteriorating with age, but I want to be careful to be a little bit skeptic about that because I think one idea is that it might look to us older people like social ties are deteriorating, but really social ties are just expressed differently in younger people than in older people, so you connect via Facebook and so forth. You can tell I'm not a big social media person. But beyond that I do think, so I don't want to be too skeptic because we do know that anonymity of social media being able to hide behind a screen, behind an anonymous online identity seems to give people great liberty to do atrocious things that they would never do face to face. So ostracism, online bullying, I think are huge problems and those are much more seen in younger people because they rely on social media much more than older people. And I also think that there is some good research to suggest that face to face conversation, social support is better, more impactful in a positive way than that mediated by computers. And so I think those two pieces of information would say that there is something to be said for avoiding only having computer-mediated or app-mediated social interactions. Thank you, Tonya. I'd like to talk about the issue of gender and I think the element of research in brain, men and women, is still something that we vary at the beginning of and I'm very grateful to Maria Teresa to having starting this women brain project in terms of looking at why is that you have more women that actually deal with Alzheimer's disease and even more and more at a younger age. I think there is something into it. If you look at the way we've been doing research in the area of heart diseases, well, most of the research in heart diseases were targeted for men and then it's only afterwards that we've realized that the heart diseases for women and the symptoms for strokes were actually coming out differently and that has been done only at a later stage. So I think there is something that we need to invest more into is looking at those elements that are different. You may be aware that actually mice in labs are usually male mice because they behave much more easily than female mice and it's a true fact and so basically all the trials are done with male mice and it's easier but then it's changing but also the cost is also bigger. That's another issue. So I think we need to look into that as well and I'm grateful for the awareness raising of this gender issue as well. Okay, let's go over there, thank you. Can you just, the man with the red shirt? Or is it women? I can't, I can't. Yes, I beg your pardon. Please excuse me, I can't see very well from you. You are a woman, thank you. I'm so sorry. I definitely need to change something then. My name is Gail, I'm a UN external partner around the global goals. I have two questions. One, for women who deal with emotional abuse, mental abuse, whether at the hands of marriage or even women to women because I hear women's gender equality but we don't even treat each other well. So that's something for us to look at as well. And the second thing is something to the young lady in the black, we talk about the social media. World Economic Forum actually did a study that too much technology is affecting all of us. Short attention span, short patience, less connectivity with one another. We need human interaction. That's one of the most important factors in life. And then the last question I just had is this. You say that it's mostly young people know it's all of us, all ages, because we live by our mobile phones, we're on our apps, we're on everything. We are connected three quarters of the time and I think Europe has it well. They still allow their children to play as normal and to do family outings and things like that. Something that the U.S. has just connected, you'll see a family looking at TV while they have their children looking at the same show on the iPad in front of them. That's not family connection. So I wanted to know your thoughts around those areas, please. Thank you very much. So we will come back to that one. We'll take another couple of comments. The man, he is a man, I can see that properly here. Sorry. Thanks for this occasion. I'm a philosopher and a critical visitor. And I noticed that the speed in the economy is increasing very, very much, especially on lower qualified jobs. And to me, I see that at this speed level, you can't link emotions with your thoughts. It gets rational, it gets narrow minded and that leads, that tends to problems. We have also a problem, a kind of illness in society because we have less and less resources. We have a climate change, we have tipping points that we have to avoid, but we don't change our behavior as a society as quickly as we would be paid for. How we overcome this. All right. So let's take both of those points. So one is about the way the family seems to be behaving and what we can do about that to restore a diminished connectivity, human connectivity that may be happening within family life and in life in general, that's one thing. And then the other one, perhaps we'll, we know that it's paralyzing when you're faced with global challenges, which are actually impacting on your lives and you feel you have nothing. So it's worth talking about that sense of paralysis or impotence that one has when you can't actually influence these terrible things that you can see happening around you. And of course, then there was also just the sheer pace of life, generally, but I'm not sure how it's going to go. But I'm not sure how specific we can address that. But I think, anyway, panel, please respond any way you'd like. Can I go to you to start? Well, very briefly, because there's so much to say on that, about the fragmentation of human relations. A newborn as that tribe in Africa, he's held by 18 persons within 24 hours. No, with the family, usually with a father and mother and one child and the factor of emotional learning and empathy is sort of at risk, that's one thing. And when you hear that children be less, 10 times less in public arena than 30 years ago, so that's also some factor. So for the other thing about the environment, again, we should not, society is made of individual. And if we think, I can't do nothing, then who is going to start? So there's a very interesting study about are you ready to do something for the environment? 20% of people say, yes, no matter what, take my bicycle, I'll do something. 20% said, don't care damn, and you know a few have been elected recently. Then 60% said, I will do it if others do it. So that's what you need, a critical mass of people with strong ideas that people can start to adhere to this idea and then say, well, that's the way to go and then you switch over to 60% and then things can be done. So that's why the power of ideas are bringing them in a articulate way, a strong way and appeal to people is so important to sway the opinion towards doing something, each individual. And we start with the individual, so how can we be? I think I'm gonna answer your question with a question, which is, what was it like when television came out like 40 years ago and there was this change in behavior and people were like, we're not going outside anymore and we sit in front of TVs and I don't know if this is like actually just, every decade is something new and it's a fact of life or if this is actually fundamentally different and I know you have a lot of research and expertise and you mentioned some examples in that, so. Harris, do you want to comment on any of this? Yeah, just briefly on the, and I really agree with the skepticism I'm on that you bring up, so I think that these blanket recommendations are probably not gonna work too well, just sort of do away with all the vices and I think to some extent, we just have to learn to deal with the fact that the internet is in all of our lives so we can't completely avoid it but I think sort of having less of it, slowing down, really learning how we cope with the potential stressfulness of having more mediated social interaction but also I think we need to take the good that could come with it and so I think Anmol's app, the Ginger IO app is just one example of how actually technology, we've been emphasizing the dangers a little bit but technology can bring a lot of good with it and so I like the recent revision of the recommendations of the American Pediatric Association where they used to say absolutely no screen time until the age of two for children and now they've realized it's just draconic and so now they actually recommend to parents how exactly they should introduce screen time so for example, sit with the child while the child is looking at a screen, avoid certain apps that are too fast paced and so thereby to bring it back to mental health just acknowledge the reality that those apps are in our lives but avoid some of the negative implications of them so that's just a brief comment on that. Thank you, Tanya, is that all right? Okay, more questions, we have several here. Okay, let's go to that person in the brown jacket there in the... That's what my name is Ulrich Weissert. Ulrich Weissert, I play music in the church. Mr. Rekard, you said that there was research that looked at institutions and the hierarchies within those institutions. I don't know if you've also studied churches in Europe but I've seen that over the last 20 years people have been considered as a cost factor more and more and there's a view that these costs have to be reduced. I don't think people should be seen as costs, people should be supported so my final question to you, Mr. Rekard, is could you perhaps do a meditation with us that we could take home with us? So I've only managed to switch to the English channel for the last part of your question which was about the meditation. I think with only seven minutes left and wonderful people here and your meditation is about silence so you could do it anytime and if I start speaking about meditation it's not going to be silent and we won't do it in seven minutes. I really apologize maybe we can go to the mountains if we have time. I'm really sorry, I've loved to do that but it seems in five minutes it's going to be more disruptive than bringing serenity in everyone's mind. Do you want to respond to the question? I'm very grateful for that comment and for the way you put your questions as well because I think we are in an identity crisis. Here I'm speaking as a person I'm not actually endorsing necessarily the government here but basically I think years ago it was clear that you needed spirituality, intellectual food, physical activity and emotions and that the four elements actually build the identity and they are actually needed and I think all of them need to be nurtured and I think the question that I would simply ask and I ask people and I ask myself every day is okay have you been feeding Tanya, have you been feeding your spiritual mind, have you been feeding your emotions and recognizing them, have you done enough for your physical element and have you nurtured your international capacity? And I think if we do ask those four elements and actually put maybe the church in the middle again I think then we would be maybe further ahead also particularly with identity and children and how they cope with difficulties in terms of who they are. Okay, we have time for one more question. You just put your hand up with the blue sweater, three from the back, one row in, yes. Yeah, my name is David. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity and waited a long time. I should out myself here as a representative of the Christian faith and draw lines with other faiths. Christ has a body, a spirit and we believe that the spirit and the soul should not be set aside, they should be nurtured. So there's a clear link here. If we manage to feed the spirit and the soul then we can nurture our belief, our faith that enables us to have a relationship with God. So I think that we shouldn't see ourselves as computers, we shouldn't forget that we have a soul and a spirit. Thank you very much. So I think that point speaks for itself but if anyone wants to respond to it especially in relation to the role of the church, I mean. Well, I take your point. I think sometimes the way we speak about things and give names, of course, I think when you speak of soul is your experience, the stream of your consciousness, the dynamic thing that you have been experiencing throughout your life. So I think when we speak of becoming more familiar with the deepest nature of our consciousness, that pure awareness that's behind the screen of thoughts, probably it won't overlap exactly. But anyway, we are dealing with our mind to become a better human being, to be better at the service of others. And I think that's probably a goal that we share whether we are believers or we worry about secular ethics, become a better human being, to be a better element in our societies and contribute to each other's well-being. Yeah, so thank you very much indeed. So to wrap up this session, which now has to come to an end, I need to introduce Alois Zvingi, I hope I've got that name correct, who's head of operations and resources and a member of the managing board of the World Economic Forum. And he's, I think, wrap up not only this forum, but also the whole series of open forums. So Alois, please. Thank you, Philip. Thank you all for this very insightful one and a half hours. Thank you very much. For the closing words, I will actually change back to German. Over the last four days, we had in 15 open forums the possibility to hear new views and new information on issues such as the digital revolution, equal rights of genders, overcoming conflicts, the future of Europe, generation, gap, racism. And if we want a reflection of the issue of courage, then the female Afghan Augustry yesterday was an excellent example of what showing courage means. So over the last four days at the 15th Open Forum, we had many participants who followed the proceedings here. And maybe you'll be pleased to know that 100,000 people followed us over the internet on our video stream. So finally, I'd like to say thank you. Thank you to the school that's hosted us here for their warm welcome. I'd also like to thank the police and security teams from Securitas for saying a big thank you for ensuring that we've been able to follow these discussions in safety. And I'd also like to thank the sound engineers at the back for their support, the technical team who've shown the willingness to ensure things run smoothly. And thank you for you for showing interest and have a safe journey home. Thank you very much. Thanks to the panel as well. Thanks to the panel.