 Welkom back. It is still me here. I had mentioned that I was coming but it seems that I will be holding down this conversation on youth and politics. We have an interesting discussion coming your way. To help us with this will be Timothim Mwanda who is an advocate of the High Court of Kenya practicing in Nairobi. Karibu Saina. Am I supposed to say my learned friend? No, because you're not learned. Ah, okay. Is it something that is there in the books or is it just a language you came up with as advocates and lawyers? No, it's a language that has been there. It's an old tradition and it's used by colleagues to call each other. Okay, it's used by colleagues. Not anyone can be used fanhazedly. Yes, thank you. Alright, so we want to talk about politics. What is making news in Kenya? Let's start with the stage set for Supreme Bottle. Yes. What do you make of it? Today is the 7th day till the judgement day which will be next Monday. So what do you make of the process that has been so far? The process that has been so far has gone on well. As you know, the petition has timelines. The constitution under Article 138 provides for 14 days. Today is the day that parties are going to make rejoinders and any interlocutory applications. Pre-trial is set for tomorrow. The registrar of the Supreme Court is going to issue a notice to all parties to get prepared for the pretrial that is coming up tomorrow. The pretrial what means is whereby parties and the court agree on the issues to tackle. Thereafter, proceed. You said the parties and the courts agree on issues to tackle. Yes, yes, on what issues will be determined in the petition. Some issues will be thrown out. This is where the court will now zero in on the issues because they don't have time. So do they work together with the parties to zero into the issues or the courts just decided on their own from the petitions that they have gotten? No, they work together. Yes. Okay, with both parties? All parties. You know that the petitioners are nine and they are also the respondents who this time round I am shocked, commissioners and also the commission itself together with the president-elect. Yes. Alright. So that is said to happen tomorrow? Today. Oh, today. The pretrial is today. And then thereafter, the hearing kicks off. So the hearing will be on from tomorrow going forth? We stand will be directed by the court. It might even start today because they are working with time. Because by Monday they are supposed to give a verdict? Yes. Or not will happen? Yes. Sofa, how do you see it's going? What are some of the things that you are taking from it from the petitions that have been given and the respondents giving back their response? Sofa, we've seen different petitions coming up. It has never been there before. And the other thing we've seen are the two different factions of IBC. We've seen one faction of the chairman being led by the senior council, Gidumi Gai. On the other side we've also seen the faction that the four commissioners pleaded being represented with another firm of advocate. This has never been there. We are waiting to see if the court, how will it rule on that, on representation. We're also going to see how this affidavits will be admissible before the court. Because some of them in the plain language that you've seen even with the bribery claims and stuff, are they admissible in court? Yes. Okay. All right. So this are some of the things that we expecting to see. And that will be on from tomorrow. Yes. Okay. And what about, I understand that the LSK wanted to be friends of the court. So how does that work? Okay. Friends of the court in the other term, it's called Amika Skurai. What they come to assist, they come to assist the court to determine issues. But let me bring you to speed. We've seen the advocates representing the president elect, they have filed grounds of opposition to challenge them being admitted as a friend of the court. The reason they are saying so it's because LSK is just an artificial body. And according to the decided cases in the supreme court, for you to become a friend of the court, you need to have assisted the court earlier on and you know the issues. So the president elect through his advocate they've challenged that application by the law society of Kenya. Okay. So it has not yet been approved? Not yet. We are still waiting to hear from the courts if he decides to take them. And you've said the word is? Amika Skurai. Amika Skurai. Are there other bodies that have come to be friends of the court Amika Skurai? So far I've not seen any application. Last time we had the attorney general, this time I've not seen the application in courts. Okay. So what do you think generally will be made out of this despite the decision that will be arrived at with the court on Monday? Do you think this will strengthen our electoral body at the end of it or is it just something that we'll see a repeat of maybe in the next five years? Again because we have seen this is not the first time that the electoral body has been taken to court because of issues to do with the election. Let me answer that question in three ways. One, from the legal perspective, we expect our jurisprudence to grow. By that in 2013 the election was upheld. In 2017 it was nullified. In 2022 the decision that will be made will have made our jurisprudence to go to grow in different ways. Some of the issues which were raised in 2013-2017 they are not in 2022. New issues are coming up. In the layman's language the issues that are going to be determined it's only true. Is the election valid or invalid? Valid. When we look at the professionals now professionals are looking at how competent is the commission. That's what most of the professionals are looking at. Okay. From still on that what are some of the possibilities that will come out of this because the Azmiyo team are expecting that the court will decide actually expecting that there will be swan in as president that will be announced that they actually won the election and the other team UDA is expecting that it will not nullify it will actually uphold the election. What are the possibilities that stand? The possibilities that will stand is one under Colón 38 the Supreme Court can either validate the election two it can also invalidate and order for a repeat election within 60 days but now when you go to the elections act under section 80 we see that the court has power to announce a winner it orders the commission to issue the winner with a certificate. However there are some I think three petitions that were filed last week on whether section 85 is constitutional because people have issued they have spoken through their votes if the court comes and issues another person needs a certificate then it means the people's will has been changed So we wait to see on how that will turn out and speaking of the commission as pleat does this hold ground does it hold water for the Azmiyo team who have taken the petition to court water for them now that they have sort of a backup from the commissioners that there was not some opakeness as they said in the election during the BBA case we saw the issue of the three commissioners whether it is constitutionally mandated to sit the supreme court held that the three commissioners were valid and they stand to be the commission is fully now the four the four do not have there is no any legal challenge that is going to be raised the only legal challenge I see it being raised was there a decision that was made by the commission because when you look at the constitution it says that before a presidential election is announced the commission has to sit down and make a decision so did they sit down and make a decision if the three of them sat then the commission sat fully but does it not need the commissioners to be all of them seven or at least a majority for them to make a decision I think that is one of the issues before the court that we are looking for it to be determined still a lot of things happening still on the matters election and the supreme court battle we have had secrets coming out if I can put it like that especially between Rafael Tojo and the chair of IBC what do you make of this? the secrets are coming out so I think the main issue that will be determined in court is whether are these evidence admissible before court because there are some things that once they are said they cannot be taken as evidence in court so we are waiting to see on that another thing we are waiting to see is proving of this evidence since there is no time so what will it take for does it take for an evidence to be admissible in such a case you see right now the issue before the court is the timelines the timeline is so short that's why even evidence is not taken by Afidavit it's taken with Avoshe you see in this other court hearings we usually see witnesses coming to court they get cross examined etc etc but for this one you just do Afidavit and where there are some issues you will be calling for cross exam or re-exam depending on the directions of the court so admissibility of evidence we usually looked at under the evidence act there are some things which are not admissible for example if you are my client and you come and confide in me I cannot share that evidence before the court it is not admissible okay alright very quite interesting and moving away just a bit from the Supreme Court the Supreme Court battle we have the elections that are taking place today that is in Mombasa and Kakamega that is after a three week wait and security agency assure residents of safety on Balotei in delayed gubernatorial elections in two counties and so on and so forth what do you make of this elections that are to take place today a tight race between the governor aspirants we have never seen this happening before postponement of an election what I am looking for is will they be fair will they be credible and will the will of the people be upheld as you can see we have the gubernatorial elections in Mombasa and Kakamega we also have the five constituencies elections we are waiting to see and it is also very important to note that for example for the MP elections the five will determine who will hold the majority and who will hold the minority in parliament and still on this gubernatorial elections taking place today and just to mention before we continue with that the elections being held today and the constituencies we have Nyaki Kituiruru constituency Kachileba constituency we have Pokot South constituency we have Rongai constituency we have Nyaki West Ward that is in North Imenti constituency and Kwanjenga Ward that is Mbakasi South constituency in Nairobi county and of course the gubernatorial elections now back to you on the elections that are taking place we had the Azmiolida filing petition in court again asking that Chabukati the chair should not oversee these elections that are to take place so having that there is no response so far so what will happen I have not seen that and filed what what the right honorable lead he said that while he was in a public gathering and Chabukati cannot oversee the elections they are county returning officers in Mombasa and in Kakamega who were gazetted to be in charge of those elections when we look at also the MP elections and the MCA elections they are officers who are gazetted so the work of Mr Chabukati and the commission is to just facilitate by providing the ballot boxes but the one who is in charge legally are the county returning officers who have been gazetted okay, alright and what about when we talk about Nairobi governor that is Johnson Sakaja what happens now to NMS as he is expected he said that he would not work with NMS and I have that story here NMS to surrender county tasks as Sakaja takes over so now what would happen how do you see this turning out my new governor governor Sakaja what the county government is established and article 176 of the constitution and also the county government act so by dint of him being so need constitutionally and legally NMS has died and it is now upon them to transfer powers because NMS came up when governor Sonko and the office of the president when they made an agreement to transfer factions under the schedule in the constitution now that that term of governor Sonko ended after governor Sakaja was so need then it means governor Sakaja is going to take up and steer up the county into the new phase that he has promised us so where does NMS go it dies from there yes it dies alright some of the things that are happening and some of the achievements that I see here from NMS is that they have NMS has been renovating and constructing houses in colonial era Bahati, Maringo, Jericho, Lumumba, Bondeni Zewani and Bacasi, California, Karibangan North and Woodley estates in a bit of the conscious CBRD six termini where city-bound matatus will drop and pick passengers in the final stages of completion just to get your opinion do you think NMS has done enough work in the county the time it has been of service yes it has done enough work though it has not be sufficient for the people of Nairobi for example the termini that have been built the green bus the green park bus termini there are some challenges that people have been facing for example how are you going to pick how is a sick person going to travel from the green park bus termini let's say to hospital in Agakan here she is used to then take a matatu to Agakan how is she going to commute but fairly they have done a good job they have helped they have provided good services to the people of Nairobi and we are grateful to General Mbadi and his team moving away from that to the new governors who are now confronted by huge pending bills in this newspaper it says the newly sworn in governors face a huge task of clearing pending bills and weeding out ghost workers as they begin serving their five-year term the county bosses also face an uphill task of transforming their counties by fulfilling their campaign pledges as well as meeting the expectation of the constituents what do you make of this task for the governors coming especially for the new governors and for the governors who weren't there for the previous five years and I've seen most governors have said that they are going to do an audit on all the pending bills that are there so that now they are able to know the genuine bills and the ones that are not genuine and be able to proceed and pay we we entrust that let's not our public money go to waste yes and what about the national debt that we have for the incoming president debts must be paid however way they were taken and whatever purposes they were taken they are supposed to be paid the only little advice I can give to the new president who is going to come in is can we ask for restructuring of our loans and also let the loans that were taken be of good help to the one inch yes okay and now as we come to a close on this particular segment I want you to tell us about the what to expect during this period when during the election petition and the supreme court hearing when we will be you know after the value that is given in the case that we are to return to the polls how long should it take and when will the president be announced if in such scenario the constitution has guided us very well under such scenarios one if the elections is upheld then the president elect his excellency doctor William Ruto together with his deputy president elect Honorable Brigadier Gashagwa will be sworn in 7 days the next Tuesday after 7 days of the election that takes us to 13th of September that is if the election is upheld yes if it's upheld if it's invalidated under article 138 of the constitution then the supreme court is going to order for refresh another election to be done which the election will be done within 60 days 60 days when we try to do about 60 days from if if the judgment is going to come out on 5th of September then the commission has to do another election before the 5th 5th or 4th of November yes after the elections are done within 7 days after we expect a new president to be sworn in ok so the president will be sworn in either on 13th of September or in the case that we do a fresh election it will be around 4 plus November November the second week some other ok so as we come to close finally on this what is to be expected and what advice are you giving to the people what is expected in our court is we expect justice and I do trust and believe in our judicial system led by Honorable Chief Justice I know they are going to serve Kenyans justice and I ask Kenyans to be calm let us continue with our normal work let us continue with our normal businesses and by 5th of September Kenyans must move on and I pray to our politicians to stop inciting Kenyans on or speculating speculating on the decision that is going to come out ok thank you very much Timothy for coming and sharing such insights we appreciate your company it was pleasure having you so that has been Timothy Mwenda who is an advocate of the High Court of Kenya talking to us about the current status of the country what is going on what to expect and what not to some of the legal advice on the matters that are ongoing there that has been youth and politics so now take a short break and then Brian will be back with MCM stay with us