 This is Think Tech Hawai'i. Community matters here. Aloha and welcome to Think Tech Hawai'i's Hawai'i Together. I'm Kayleigh Akin. I'm just delighted to have a good friend on the program today to talk about something that is near and dear to all of us. It's the environment. The environment has a tremendous impact on the quality of life in Hawai'i, but we as people have a tremendous impact on the quality of the environment. And sometimes the government is helpful, but very often the government is not helpful. There's a gentleman in Hawai'i who's become known as Hawai'i's leading watchdog in terms of the environment who's constantly digging up facts that the public generally doesn't know that are sometimes hidden from the public and he exposes them. His name is Carol Cox and perhaps you've seen him in the news. I'm glad he's going to be here today to tell us a little bit about some of the things he's done and then stick around he'll let you know a little more about some of the breaking news that is coming from his own investigation. Please welcome to the program my good friend, environmental watchdog Carol Cox. Carol, Aloha. So good to have you back on the program. How are you doing? Aloha, Kayleigh. I'm fine. Thank you for having me on the show. You and I are kindred spirit. We're always trying to look out for the common person. We are common people. Exactly. Against powers that be and it's just so glad to have you here. So, environmental watchdog, what in the world is that? Well, it's not a lab dog. That's the established that. And in that role, it's not a role that most people they see and thank you, but many of them would like to just bludgeon you like I've shown in the past two years or so. Actually, my life was threatened. My house was bombed. My goodness. Being a watchdog is a very fragile, sensitive and dangerous position in life, but we deserve clean air, clean water and honest government. Well, now, let me put it this way. We've got a lot of government already. We've got the Environmental Protection Agency. We've got the Department of Land and Natural Resources. We've got federal, state and county departments all receiving taxpayer dollars to watch out for the environment to keep us all safe. Why in the world do we need anything more than that? Are they doing their job or are they possibly part of the problem? With all of them being in existence, look at the state of affairs today and that would give you the best assessment and the ability to make an assessment. They have failed and failed miserably. We've allowed politics. We've allowed money to enter into the game. When it first started off, it was to protect, it was an honest effort to protect and preserve and wisely use these natural resources as they see fit and preserve the clean air and the clean water. Well, you know, there are a lot of people who are not very aware of some of the environmental problems that we have in Hawaii. When we think of environmental damage, we think of the Exxon Valdez or the British petroleum chip leaking all of its oil. Or we think of Boston Harbor or we think of Detroit near the steel mills and the industrial center. People have this image that Hawaii is pristine and clean and safe for our children. What is it to your thought? Well, that is a very nice dream that we seek to make it a reality but the reality is Hawaii is one of the most polluted places there are. Remember, the agricultural activities, the use of high insecticides and defoliants and what have you, they present a problem. They percolate down after they've been applied to the land, percolate down into the groundwater, threatening groundwater, presenting problems with cancers and other diseases, run off into the streams, killing the OOPU or the native species or the aquatic species in the marine environment, going out to the ocean, silt from agricultural practices uphill and golf courses in the pollutants and the chemicals used. So you get the idea. We need strict management, strict control of these things and honest people whether it's agriculture or government but the biggest failure that I've come to learn in the state of Hawaii is the government. The government is one of the bigger poolers in the state of Hawaii, both city, county, state and federal. You sound kind of like Ronald Reagan, that old expression. Government is not the solution to our problem, it is our problem. Is that what you're saying with regard to these environmental situations? Funny you mentioned that because I say government is a pollution to our problem. Really? I'm laughing but the irony leaves us very sad when we really think about it. What's going on here? The very people whom we pay to protect us are not doing that. Thus the need for a watchdog. Now Carol, what I hope you do before you leave today is give us some insights into some of the current issues and I know you're breaking some research with regard to the Red Hill fuel storage facility. We'll save that for later but I think our viewers are going to learn some things about that that they will hear nowhere else except from the mouth of Carol Cox. But before that, familiarize our viewers with some of the issues you've dug into before. For example, out in Miley, wasn't there a dumping of waste product by the city itself on government lands? Now, laying in the backdrop, Hawaii and especially the island communities, we've lost quite a bit of wetlands. It's essential to have wetlands because of native birds or the many water birds that rely on that and they are the rookeries for certain young fish or larvae and what not. Birds, fish, insects, plants, you name it, it's all out there. So in Miley, there's a stream, A-le-lee stream up by... A-le-lee stream? Yes. That is a remnant piece of land that serves as a wetlands. The city and county of Honolulu was removing concrete from downtown Kapolei anywhere around the island and stockpiling and then on weekends the men had orchestrated a little game of... I called it a game but it was theft. To take this concrete, slabs of it and bury it and dump it into the stream. Therefore rendering the wetlands just completely useless. What's the impact of all of that dumping upon the life in the stream and the people who live around it? It displaces the water and does not impede the flow of the water and the collection of water and the native plants or the plants that are critical to the survival of the gallonu or the koot or the kaloha. And so in doing that, the scheme was to gather overtime for work that they should have taken and dumped it at the landfill but instead they shortstop and dumped it in the stream. So we've got two infractions at least going on here. We've got illegal dumping where it shouldn't take place but we've got that taking place because people wanted to game the system and gain overtime. Right. But it was government now, city and county of Honolulu workers and it was orchestrated by management, some portions of the management as when we were first brought into the picture, the fold of it, the tip was they're giving favoritism on weekends to bury illegally, bury and haul, submit up to the area near Nanakuli, Miley and dumping it in the stream but only select few were allowed to work overtime. Well this has a lot of dimensions that are simply wrong. The government itself is trying to get around the environmental laws and do something illegal and in order to do it it incentivizes workers to break the law as well. Well I just recently down at Alamona Park there's signs in the stream there that say this water is contaminated with sewage water. No shame anymore. So when I say it is government who contributes to the worst polluting situations count the number of sewage spills that we have. These are clean water act violations many times and we're already on the consent decree so they've already had the hand slap been sued and they continue to spill. Now going back to the Miley lands you exposed that didn't you? What did you show and what happened? Well we showed the tons and tons of cement slabs and just dumped and buried and they were pushing them down in the mud to conceal them and displacing the animals or the endangered birds over there the Hawaiians still the Galanul and whatever. Now mind you, Waianae coastline does not have that many wetlands left. So this was very a shocker that the last permanent piece of land that would have lent itself that lends itself to habitat was taken into no consideration. Well that's terrible and so I'm glad that you were on the job doing that. You've also been out in the Waianae non-Akulea area on other issues particularly the usages of our native Hawaiian homelands and the usages that the department of Hawaiian homelands puts them to. Tell us a little bit about that. Well now you want to bring up old bombings I chuckle because There's a bit of drama to this story. It's bittersweet because first of all the people of Hawaii deserve what is rightfully theirs. When there's an agency structured and in place to assist in making sure and assure the public or the native people that they have this and protect their interests squanders it by allowing friends to get extra leases while denying others from any leases while having long lines and vacant houses. So the work that I did there was finding illegal dump chemicals and soils and dirt and waters dumped on Hawaiian homelands. So let me see what you're saying. On one hand you're alluding to the fact that there are people who can't get on the land. You didn't mention it but currently I think there are about 27,000 native Hawaiians on the waiting list for Hawaiian homelands who have qualified but who are not able to move in and thousands have died on that list. You're saying that instead some of that land is being used as illegal dump sites. Illegal dump sites, illegal storage of soil, illegal car stripping, illegal you name it just use your imagination but what was really painful that I discovered at the Kauai Law Area land was given to individuals, non-native people and they were using and making great profit and the DHHL allowed them to use the land because they felt that the quote was by their presence in lieu of getting rent from them they provide security to the land and they provide weed whacking and what have you. What was going on in terms of some of these businesses that was harmful to the environment and the people? Rock crushing, bringing in chemicals and oils and disposing of them, taking oil and waste oil and dumping it and burning it and what have you in that area. Storing of calcium hydroxide of chloride 13 times we found it was used, a portion of it was used on the big island but it was brought back here and just dumped and stored and we did many news stories on that but the Department of Hawaiian Homeland is shamefully broken and many occasions they just don't address anything. Now I recall that it was in the news that when you were out there actually investigating the site itself that something happened to you physically. Well, I was approached and three or four guys got out of a car and very methodically, professionally hit men and start to wail away with a pipe or a bat and I survived that but the funny thing is they didn't get enough and so they came to my home. But before we go on with the home So you were in the hospital and you had how many stitches? I don't know how many stitches I didn't stay in the hospital because at the time as foolhardy as it may sound I felt at that time I wanted to show the public this is what happens, this is a state of affairs the Department of Hawaiian Homeland who I had been reporting and going and investigating on various parcels on the big island and here and there took no interest in supporting that and when I was stricken by these people they did nothing. So on state land you would think they would have initiated an investigation. To date the police has done no investigation the sheriff has done no investigation so the Hawaiian homelands is broken and when I say broken I mean in the worst way because I'm afraid if we ever learned the amount of chemicals and toxins that have been illegally dumped on Hawaiian homelands we would immediately remove many of the people and give them better lands because of the cancers and things of that nature of the threats of the risk to cancer and breathing the dirt and the oils and the soils that have been dumped there illegally. This is something now who are these people that accosted you who attacked you physically and brought harm to you not particularly, not their names necessarily but who did they represent? Well trucking companies and they were native Hawaiians believe it or not People, companies that were benefitting from the land as clients. Well I want to hear the rest of the story you said that you got followed to your home and something happened there and I'm going to cut you off right now for a moment because we're going to take a quick break and we're at a cliffhanger which means that if you're watching you definitely have to come back to hear the rest of the story it gets even bigger. I'm Keeley Akeena interviewing my friend Carol Cox who's one of Hawaii's leading environmental watchdogs and we're taking a look at what the nature of being a watchdog is the personal harm and danger that comes in the quest to do good for all Now Carol is here as a private individual citizen and so am I although I also happen to be a state representative in the office of Hawaiian affairs, a trustee I'm not here today in my capacity as a government representative or agent I'm here simply as a citizen like you listening to an individual tell his story We'll hear the rest of Carol Cox when we come back from this break Aloha Hello everyone I'm DeSoto Brown the co-host of Human Humane Architecture which is seen on Think Tech, Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4pm and with the show's host Martin Desbang we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live but other aspects of our life not only here in Hawaii but internationally as well So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4pm on Think Tech, Hawaii I'm Jay Fiedel, Think Tech Think Tech loves energy I'm the host of Mina, Marco and Me which is Mina Morita former chair of the PUC former legislator and energy dynamics a consulting organization in energy Marco Mangostorf is the CEO of Provision Solar in Hilo every two weeks we talk about energy everything about energy come around and watch us we're on at noon on Mondays every two weeks on Think Tech We're back again with Carol Cox Hawaii's environmental watchdog I'm Keena on Hawaii Together Carol has given us a fascinating story of some of the adventures if you will allowing to call them he's gone through in the commitment he's made to be Hawaii's environmental watchdog and we're going to pick up with one in terms of what he found happened to him when he began to dig in places he perhaps shouldn't have been digging if he wanted to maintain his complete safety let's pick up that story not only did you get beat up on Hawaiian homelands eventually at your home you got a message well on a school playground it's called beat up but I was it was an attempted murder and that was whatever message was sent I didn't get it because I don't listen in that tone so the the initial striking I went to the hospital got stitched up felt that what a god sent here I'm able to stand on and show that whatever it is that I'm working on if you didn't believe it was important now you should believe it because I'm wearing stitches and a bandage and bloody shirt for trying to do what's right for the native people and the people of the state and so if someone's willing to strike you for that by golly that was the perfect it was a gift but then couple days later week later so I hear boom in the garage and it's someone was attempting to two men attempting to set and ignite fires and they were successful so they set on one car blew up whatever mechanism gadgets they were using it ignited and prematurely on one in the driveway so I had two cars ablaze and the intent was to set the cars on fire and then they were in the garage and then they would in turn burn the house down what did that what were you doing at the time what was your family doing when that happened well funny as I said I was in the right a letter getting ready to do a TV my radio show about the Hawaiian homeland and I heard boom I go out to see what it was and voila there's flames and you know smoke now you've tried your best to bring these situations before the authorities is that right oh yeah and what has happened well they don't the authorities in this town don't care much about the environment and the dams don't care about anybody that's reminding them that they should care about the environment it was just not receptive and it's more of an annoyance even though we talk about how beautiful Hawaii is but very few people really have it in their hearts to stand up and understand the basic need to protect these elements the water, the air, the clean soil and what have you now you're currently working on some pretty hot topics and I think one of them is one you've worked on a long time and I'm really not aware of anyone else who has gone to the extent of investigation you have down at Red Hill which is near Pearl Harbor it's a military facility where we have some military housing and there is also something known as a fuel storage facility I don't know the precise term of it but you could give that to us this fuel storage facility in Red Hill has been the subject of your investigations because of its impact on the environment and the people who live there this is a Red Hill bulk fuel storage facility buried in Halawa area near the stadium near the stadium now let me say this clearly I believe that is one of the greatest shameful things done committed on the people here in Hawaii the violation of their trust their rights and all and that is the Red Hill facility is leaking fuel and has leaked fuel in its contaminants or constituents components of that fuel into the aquifer and that is documented by the monitoring wells that were installed to monitor for components such as or constituents such as TPH naphthalene and other chemicals associated with oils now no one is arguing or debating are these tanks leaking and responding but now they have the public engaged in a debate in a discussion what should we do should we coat them with some material should we replace them the public has no reason to be involved in that do the right thing as structure them to make sure that there sound I want to know what are you going to do about the contaminants that's in the water the drinking water now okay so you're saying that there is an inadequate response to the situation but let me back up a little bit with you you said a lot you said that it has generally been acknowledged that contaminants have leaked from the fuel storage facility into the aquifer but haven't we been told that that's not at a very significant level that that's not at an unsafe level for our water supply and so forth well that's the dilemma that is what creates the problem what they say and but what is it that they're being transparent about what are they showing you're suggesting that it's actually dangerous I'm saying that be more specific there is things called environmental action levels except by and utilized by the State Department of Health to monitor constituents of concern of contaminants in what drinking water soil or air so to not to get technical the EALs we'll call it the reports that we have that was generated by the Navy submitted to the State Health Department clearly talks about specific levels where they certain constituents TPHD TPHG Napdeline have exceeded the EALs that were set by the Department of Health and when they were exceeding that level the State Health Department just casually increased those numbers to make it safe again so you're saying the standard got changed you're saying your claim is that when it was found that the State was or the military was in violation of the State standards that the standards got dropped so that they were no longer in violation of them that's quite a claim to quote the Navy's contractor said that the DOH revised its EALs now the DOH has a disclaimer that says that whatever they write until you today is not binding and that you and I they can change it arbitrarily if they want to whenever they wish to and you and I as public entities do not have a right to comment are they obligated to notify us of those changes so you're suspicious that these were not not good changes made to the system they weren't objective changes but they were being done you suspect to cover up the problem this quoting me this is an unlawful act defrauding the public of what is transpired the documentation would come you see they were required to do reports, quarterly reports they being the Navy so these are not my words and I'm just chipping away at some of the phrases but there are substantial documents and reports now your concern is over the discourse going on on what to do about this and you mentioned that some people think it has to do with the storage facility what are the solutions people are looking at and what are your thoughts about it well let's first of all go back and put it in proper perspective this is the aquifer that is one of the main aquifers for the island of Oahu how many people drink from that and provided water some say all the way to Hawaii Hawaii Kai the border water supply has raised concerns also about this very subject of the increasing of the EALs and other doctors or PhD people are looking at this as saying how could you justify so quickly to change arbitrarily and being capricious about it how can you do that so there's really no answers but the narrative that the state health department and the Navy in my observation and the opinion that I've drawn based on the documentation and the activity that I've witnessed it is defrauding the public and basically outright lying to the public about and they want you to be engaged become expert tank designers and pipe fitters and whatever when in fact we first need to show the priority and come to the realization that the clean water the quality of the water is what we are concerned with how you store your fuel and what have you that's your business truly on it but keeping your contaminants out of our drinking water and our soil and our air is what we should be worried about well you know this is a fascinating story and I'm sure that many of our viewers are hearing it for the first time because it's not one that is frequently spoken of but we've come to the end of our very quick half hour together and I'm going to have to have you back another time to see where it goes before we close just really quickly and where do you go from here with this information well we're looking to file a legal action of some sort and there's a supremacy clause that is in the constitution that speaks specifically to this behavior but we're going to appeal to the EPA and others and come up with some legal approach to this very good because it's necessary and you have a website that has an ongoing broadcast program would you take a look at camera number 3 and just tell people or camera 1 over here tell people how to access that go to carolcox.com and you can see all 600, 700 shows that talk earlier about EALs and Red Hill and what have been many of the other subjects that we worked on in the past well thank you Carol very informative thank you for being here and I wish you the best and I'm also going to be praying for your safety as you continue to be Hawaii's environmental watchdog pray for the people I'm expendable well we all need prayers but the people and young kids and our Kiki and what have you and the less fortunate they deserve better absolutely my guest today has been Carol Cox Hawaii's environmental watchdog do take a look at his information and thank you for being here today on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network I'm Keeley Akeena until next time Aloha