 Okay, we're recording. I'd like to call the town services, not each committee of the town council for meeting from March 14, 2024 to order. It is five minutes after 10 in the morning, and we have a quorum of the committee present. This meeting is being conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No person in attendance or members of the public will be permitted, but we have made every effort to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in the meeting what technological means. Let me check with the members of the committee to make sure that everybody can hear and be heard. Bob Eggner? Yes, President. Jeff Tav? President. Councillor Ryan? President. I'm here, and at this point we have four members of five, and that is a quorum, so we are going to proceed. I do need to advise everybody that this meeting is being recorded, and it is available. It is being recorded both audio and for visual, so that people are aware of that. So that being said, we try to begin our meetings with public comment, and we do have members of the public who are present. We invite public comment, welcome public comment, because it's a very important part of what we do. It does not have to be about any item on the agenda. We do ask that it be related to matters that are within the purview of the committee that you before, but it does not have to be an item on the agenda. And I see that there are two, three people who have asked to be recognized, and I'm going to take it in the order that the hands went up and ask that you come in and try and limit your comments to two minutes. And but, you know, this gives us a sense of what it is that brings you to us, and so Darcy could move Darcy in. Hi Darcy, good morning. My name is Darcy Dumont. I live in district three. I'm speaking on behalf of zero waste dammers, and I hope you're all doing well on this gorgeous spring day. I'm attending today because there was a promise to bring a report on the waste hauler RFIs to this particular meeting. The RFI responses were received in October, and now it's been five months. So definitely was expecting something today, but it doesn't appear to be on the agenda. So I hope it shows up in some way or another. And the last session, a hauler update was on each agenda. And it's been a year and a half that the referrals been in TSL a little bit over a year and a half. So I would hope that an update could be on each agenda so that we can really work toward a recommendation back to the council as soon as possible. Just a reminder to this committee that the following organizations endorse the initial hauler proposal to move to a town contracted service that would include pay-as-you-throw fee structure and universal curbside compost pickup. The Amherst Board of Health, which has weighed in about three times to try to push the council to move forward with this, the Amherst Energy and Climate Action Committee, the Amherst League of Women Voters, the Amherst Common Share Food Co-op, Climate Action Now, UMass Student Farming, Sunrise Amherst, Westcock Center for the Environment, the Progressive Coalition of Amherst, Grow Food Amherst, Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst, Green Sanctuary Committee, Zero Waste Central Valley, and statewide organizations, the Sierra Club, Massachusetts Chapter and Community Action Works. Also, Zero Waste Amherst was asked by the town to conduct a survey to ascertain the cost, which it did in 2023 and reported that the average user of USA hauling and recycling currently pays around $550 a year, and that the difference between small, medium, and large carts is $2 a month, definitely not enough to incentivize waste reduction. Zero Waste Amherst also reached out to find volunteers who could get the word out to educate neighbors about curbside compost pickup, were it to be enacted by the council and have so far signed up 80 people who were to start doing outreach last summer we had hoped. Waste reduction is a great interest to a very large portion of the town, and residents want to help take responsibility while also reducing their costs. So on behalf of Zero Waste Amherst, please, please, please send this back to the council with a positive recommendation on behalf of your constituents. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, Darcy, appreciate it. We do have, I believe, on the schedule of date for the report to come back from not hearing a... I'm just checking our planning document. I think we have, yes, we have Waste Heller RFI update on the 28th of March on the schedule at the moment. But I don't want to get into comments back and forth between the public comment and the members, so we should continue with the public comment. It's only information. Okay, thanks. We don't have discussion of items that come in, but we will provide information at times. So the 28th is the answer when we have it back on the agenda, which is our next meeting. Tracy. Morning. Hi, how are you? So I'm here just to comment briefly about the North Pleasant Street improvements from Eastman Lane to Pine Street, Meadow Street. So I did, I also just want to introduce myself to Councilor Hegner. I think I know everybody else here, but I do serve as the chair of the transportation advisory committee. And I noticed it made its way into your packet, but I had written up a memo from when TAC was asked to advise the TSO way back when, I think Councilor Ryan actually sent that request to TAC when it would be reviewed by TSO and then everything got bumped back because there wasn't any funding. There were other priorities. But just because, you know, there have been more and more discussions and potential projects about individual improvements along the section. And so we just wanted to get it on the record about what TAC had discussed then, what we reviewed, what we thought. So just overall, you know, this project improving this corridor is, has been a priority that TAC has listed in terms of recommended town projects for a number of years. We've reviewed a number of different iterations of the project and project maps that have come to us from the DTPW. Gifford Maury and the DPW superintendent is the TAC liaison for staff. So it's been, you know, it's identified as a priority route for bikes and pedestrians in the Amherst bicycle and pedestrian network plan. And again, and back in 2021, we did review it. We did two different site visits and so on. So we do, we definitely support it in general. We haven't looked at all the details of some of the different projects. My understanding from talking to Mr. Maury is that it's proposed currently. This next phase is pretty much what we reviewed. We do appreciate, I mean, anything that could be done to improve the safety and accessibility along the corridor is great. It is a very high use pedestrian corridor since it's right north of the university and additionally, even since we did our review back in 2021, there have, there has been additional housing built there, both the Mill District Housing, but then also the new development that replaced North Village when we did our review that property was closed. So adding more crosswalks is a great idea. When we visited, we did see students, you know, just getting off the bus particularly and just going across the streets. And currently there are some sections with very few crosswalks. And we appreciate other measures to, to calm the traffic there. So I mean, some sections of that road are 35 miles an hour, which I really think that's probably too fast for a corridor that has so many pedestrians, but it's not really sufficient just to change the speed limit. Like you actually need to design, do other improvements to calm the traffic. And so even though I know there's talk about adding the crosswalks with the rectangular rapid flashing crosswalks, I would say that there I would just be cautious that even though they can be effective, that alone might not keep all the pedestrians safe. Like for example, I was recently downtown and I was, I had hit the buttons across the rectangular rapid flashing crosswalk and I was in the middle of crossing and a vehicle did not stop at all. And like came very, very close to my body. So, and particularly because with the number of pedestrians, there's a lot of traffic on the street. So I would say that you can use corridor at night. And so, you know, the research shows that that alone is not sufficient that you also want to have lighting. So I did recently revisit the corridor. And there are quite a few street lights on the west side of the street. But when we, when we were there back in 2021 and when I was there again recently, our concerns had been about the east side of the street, which is a very well lit campus section of it, just north of the roundabout. It's very well lit, but as you continue, it seems sort of dark. That's also the section of the sidewalk that's overgrown a lot. You know, there's a lot of trees and so on. So I don't even know, maybe even just cutting back some of the vegetation would help with that, but it's not that well lit, you know, for nighttime use. And so one of the things I had mentioned in the memo is just the idea of the streetscape lighting. And I think that was my main comments. I mean, I will also just say, not specifically related to this, but I do like to try to go to the TSO meetings, but with the change of the schedule, like they used to be in the evenings and now they're during the day. And I do have like two standing work meetings back to back in this time slot, one at 10 and one at 11. So I'm actually going to depart and then I'll just listen to your recording, but thank you. Thank you very much. I wanted to thank you and the committee for the report. I thought that it was extremely helpful and nice. So thank you. Jennifer. Hi. Hi, my name is Jennifer. I live in district five and I'm a member of the Amherst school committee, but my comment today is my own and does not represent the school committee. One of the items on your agenda today is the town manager's appointment to the elementary school building committee. The charge of the elementary school building committee indicates to include a resident with experience in energy efficient public architecture, engineering or construction, which you have an architect, Jonathan Salomon, a teacher or resident with knowledge of current educational mission and function of current facilities, which you have in Jonathan and resident member Angelica Bernal and a resident with experience and effective community outreach, a position I don't see filled amongst the current members and a function I don't see mentioned in the town manager's recommendation member for Mr. Bruce Coldham. As a side note, I don't know Mr. Coldham, but I mean him no disrespect. I understand from the memo that he has followed this project closely from the beginning and I thank him for his interest and involvement in this very important project. But getting back to the committee charge, it also says that preference will be given to parents and guardians of young children who may be in the elementary schools in five years. This charge was adopted in June of 2020. So five years from then would be 2025. Another applicant for the position, Amber Kano-Martin has a child in second grade in a Cominantes program and she has a skilled, experienced and accomplished community organizer. In addition, she herself is bilingual in English and Spanish. The ESBC does not need two resident architects at the expense of a parent of a child who will attend school in this new building and who has both deep and broad experience connecting with the community, particularly with families of school-aged children. This project is so important to the school community and I urge you to prioritize community engagement. Also, please keep in mind that the member who vacated this position is a woman of color with school-aged children. If that position is not filled by a resident with young children, then you would be reducing the voice of parents on this committee when the charter specifically says that preference will be given to parents of young children. I contacted Ms. Kano-Martin this week to ask if I could name her and my public comment today and she did give me permission. But without my being here and doing this, the TSO and the town council would not know that she had applied. The town manager's memo recommending Mr. Coldham sounds very professional and convincing and with nothing and no one to compare it to, it sounds like a solid decision. But it's important that you know what you would be giving up by approving this appointment as recommended. I'm urging you to vote no on this appointment and send the town manager back to follow the committee charge and appoint a parent with community outreach experience. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer. So, see nobody else who's coming from public comment. And what has been offered will be before the committee when we reached agenda items. And so we should get on to the next topics on the agenda. And we have, I think several people from Amherst College who are here for item four and we have item three, which is the North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements. And we have a Guilford mooring who is here from DPW to help with the presentation and answer questions about North Pleasant. We had also asked, raised the question of whether the Jason or Guilford would have any comments about the sign that's proposed for Amherst College and whether there were any concerns that DPW had from the requested placement of the sign and whether it would affect traffic or visibility. So I don't know if Guilford, if you have anything that you can say on that subject. Do you want to start with the sign, Amherst sign first? Do you want to start with North Pleasant Street first? I know we have several people from Amherst College who are in the attendee list. And if we decide that we want to bring them in, maybe it would make sense to just have that kind of discussion first. Is that agreeable to the committee? If anybody objects otherwise, I think we'll just go. We'll do that first. No one raised their hand to say that they have a problem. Is there anything that DPW has to comment on? We've worked with the college on this sign. They've kind of proposed this and we've talked to them about how to do it. They've also worked with the state DOT to get some of the work in the sidewalk and some of the other things done before the sign was installed. The college in the town or DPW has talked quite a bit about this. We think that the way it's laid out is fine with the public way. There's not an issue we see. There's no issues with sight distances or anything like that. So we're completely on board with what they propose. We don't do the aesthetic thing. So that is for someone else to comment on. Paul. You may have already said this, but there are two representatives from Amherst College in the audience. If you are interested in talking to them directly. Yes. Do we want to bring them in? Is that agreeable to the committee? I think getting out of his head. So. Bring. I know Sarah is one. Yeah. Hello, everyone. Good morning. Morning. So I'm just, I was actually in another meeting schedule at the same time. So I was waiting until it came up on the agenda. But I'm here. Did we mess you up? I recognizing you in the audience. No, no, I had two zooms going on at the same time. Which was. I had one of my phone and one on my computer. I could try that. Okay. Paul. That was just what you. George. You have your hand up. Yeah, I just thought we try to focus this a bit. I have absolutely no objections to this. I've already made that public a number of times, but we are a committee and we've been given. One or two questions from other counselors and my colleagues can also speak up. But my recollection is the two concerns that were raised. And I'm just passing these on. They're not my concerns. One has to do with the size of the sign. One counselor felt it was too large. I don't know what to say about that. I don't know DPW has any thoughts on that. I don't. And the second had to do felt it was more substantial, which had to do whether the sign at the size it is in a location might obscure driver's visions when they're making turns at that intersection. I didn't quite understand that question at the time. Maybe someone in the committee has a better sense of what that was about, but that was the other question, whether the sign would pose any kind of visibility issue for people making turns. And as I said, the other issue had to do with the size of the sign, which perhaps those two could be seen as somewhat related. These are not my concerns, but I was curious whether DPW or the Amherst college people had any thoughts on the visibility issue. And those are the only two that I recall other than well, the college can speak for themselves, but those are the only two that I can think of. And I really would like this to move along if we can. Yeah, I think the other question I'll ask Gilford or about whether any trees are affected, whether we'd have to take any trees out. I can start if you want with that. Yes. So from the standpoint of how the sign fits in the surrounding as far as size goes, we didn't really look at that. But as far as how it affects the operations in a public way, the size has no impact on that whatsoever. The biggest issue would be site distances if you couldn't see around the corner. The site distances are fine when you're stopped at the traffic signal, you can see before you make your movement when the light changes. And if you're making a right turn on red, you can see around the sign as well. There's no impact. The sign has no impact whatsoever on site distances from our standpoint. So we are okay with the size and the impact on the corner there. And we have also studied the sight lines since the town council meeting. So by standing, I went out in the traffic lanes and took photographs of the corner from where cars would be. And I've also confirmed that there isn't a sight line concern in terms of drivers approaching that corner seeing traffic from the other approaching corners. And you said, and there are no significant trees that would be affected this way. No, none of the trees are affected. So George. You'll have a thing that I can recall. And again, I'm seeking help from my colleagues here. I have notes from the past meeting, but they're not extensive. And I call this also is raised at a council meeting, which now was weeks and weeks ago, had to do with clutter and a sign clutter. In other words, as you're approaching the intersection from, I guess, from the south heading north, there's a lot of signage there. Again, I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't sound like DPW has a problem with that, but that was another concern that was raised, whether there's just too much signage. Given the nature of this particular sign and its purpose, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with all the other signs that are there. And it's not anywhere near them. So again, I don't see a problem, but anybody. So there is a lot of sign clutter when you come from the south and you're heading towards the center of town. And we actually plan to address that and take a couple of signs out, but that actually, as you said, doesn't affect the sign in the corner. But the intersection approaching from the south, there is a bit of sign clutter. So we're going to take the old state sign out, and probably take out a couple more signs that we have there that aren't needed anymore and clean that up. But that's totally a separate issue than the Amherst college sign. Well, do you know if there was any discussion in our Wayfinder signs about asking Amherst college to put a Wayfinder sign to point towards downtown. And the college that might be best placed on college land. And as we're talking about signs of cooperation. Yeah, no, the actual discussion was about putting them farther away from downtown in terms of like there's one at the base on Northampton road at the intersection with University Drive and finding a location there. And, you know, there was discussion about putting a sign trying to direct people to the downtown area. But there is a sign there now that the state put up. I think it says Amherst center. I think that there's a lot of signs in that area. And it does can get confused. I think sort of rationalizing some of that signage would be good. And we had some discussion about coming coming west on route nine about putting a sign on the closer to the town common near Boltwood about directing people to downtown coming in that direction, but I don't think that was approved. Jennifer. Yeah, I just wanted to affirm what George. What council. Councillor Ryan just stated that we're we were just asked to report back to the full council, whether there was obstruction. And then the discussion about the size of the sign. That's just individual counselor opinions, but we were, we were asked to report back regarding whether or not the sign was blocking sight lines and you know, would be a safety hazard. So that seems to have been answered. Thank you. So. I just wanted to say on the subject of kind of college cooperation with town signs. We did agree when we were working, this was in 2021 with the planning board to allow some ever some kind of Amherst way of finding signs for your package on our properties coming up North Hampton road toward that intersection. I don't know if you've actually installed those signs or not, but we as part of this kind of back and forth, we were trying to make sure that we were both signing what we both wanted to sign and not telling people to go different ways, different things. And one of those compromises was to allow us a sign on our property. I'm not sure if it's there or not because I think the state also added a sign we weren't expecting there to you. But that's signed. That's just talking about his install. Yeah. So Ryan. Yeah. And I'd also just like to point out to my colleagues on the committee that we have the memorandum dated August 26 2021, which points out the historical commission expressed strong positive recommendation for this prominent gateway sign, seeing it as an improvement. And we have a design review statement that the board is satisfied with the design layout and location of the sign is submitted. So we have DPW historical commission design review board. And I have the sense there are no more questions for the sake of the Amherst college representatives are here this morning. Hopefully they will not have to come back again. And hopefully this committee will finally move on this unless someone has other concerns, which I'm not hearing. And so that's my final thought on this. Councilor Ryan, it sounds like you're ready to make a motion. Do you need help? That would be very much appreciated. Athena. To recommend the council approve the Amherst college request to place a sign in the public way on the south comment at the corner of South pleasant street. And root nine. That is my motion. Thank you, Athena. Second. Second. Okay, there's been motion made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Seeing no request for the discussion. Take a vote and start with. A pregnant. Yes. And Joe try it. Jennifer. Yes. And I'll vote yes. So it's. We're to zero. We will. The motion has passed and. We will report that back to the council. I want to thank. Sharon says for being here and let you go. Thank you everyone for your time. Thank you. So. Turning then feel for to the other item that. We're here for. The traits he introduced us to a little bit earlier. When she was with the meeting reporting for tech. Do you have any, do you want to begin a presentation or. How would you like to go? So I think. Maybe everybody, but councilor Hegner has seen the plans. So if you want, I can go through the plans and talk about what we're doing or. I can just. Start. I think since it's been so long since the council saw this would be good just to walk through the whole thing. And prioritize what you are looking for right now. Yeah. Do you have, would you work on the entire section at once? Or do you going to do this and. All right. So you're, and I gather that the hope is to fund it through the block grant. Yes. So actually, if Athena, if you could bring up the plan, I'll just walk through what we're, what the plan is and then what, how it gets staged. Sure. Do you want the pictures in the memo or which. You can do it. You can do the pictures in the memo. That's just that those are fine. Okay. All right, great. So this project has been on the DPW books for. Well, as long as I've been here, it's been on our books. This project grew out of an attempt to have a path, a multi-use back bike path that went from the campus to North Amherst. And from North Amherst to the campus. Originally, they wanted it off road. And they wanted it to run behind the apartments between the apartments and 116. There's a, there's sort of a dirt path there now as a cinder path road, they call it. It became very difficult to do some of the apartment complexes were opposed to it because it opened up multiple access points, which they had to control into their complexes. Is there a picture Athena Athena, we lost the picture. So, so this is how this is how the project started. As time went on, we realized we really can't go down this path, which goes on the center road and then goes down under some power lines and we decided to move a multi-use path to North Pleasant Street. And so that's how we started this. We had it surveyed town, town meeting approved money to survey the rent layout. So that was done. And then we developed a concept plan, which you see here. We, it's been presented once before to the to I think it's been presented to the to the town council council and the select board. I think one of the last meetings of the select board, they saw it as well. It's a combination of sidewalk upgrades sidewalk renovations and then new crosswalks and upgraded bus pull offs is what we have here. Your memo of concerning the public way points out clearly that the council has to approve crosswalks and major renovations. We really don't, it's just, we don't really consider some major renovation of the sidewalks, even though we're widening some of them. They are the exact same place. They're just getting a little wider, but the crosswalks are new. We do have new crosswalks. That's why that's probably why we're talking about this. The bus stops are being up updated. So that's not really a new thing as well. So we kind of. So that's kind of how it's come about. So as you look at the project. We're starting that this sheet here we're looking we're starting at old town road, old town road and in front of you mass. In this section of the project, we're going to have a five foot sidewalk on the west side, which is the top of the page and an eight foot sidewalk on the east side of the project, which is the bottom of the page. So we'll go through. Can you go back up to the top of the page. These two bus stops do get improved one bus stop is exactly where it was before. The other bus stop never had a pull off. We kind of placed it in a spot that worked really well. Some neighbors aren't really thrilled about that bus stop being there but since But that's where we propose the bus stop. PVTA always asks us to put the crosswalk behind the bus stops if we pair bus stops. This actually allows the students or the passengers to walk to the back across the road. And as they're crossing the road and the cars are yielding to the students, the bus can pull out and that they like that. That's how that's why the bus stops. We like we set them up the way they do with one. Once they're but the bus stop will be past the crosswalk and the crosswalk will be behind the bus stop in the direction of travel. So you can scroll down now. So now we're moving we're moving north. We still have the on the east side or the bottom of the page we have the eight foot wide sidewalk five foot wide sidewalk on the other side. Keep scrolling down. That's hard to see but we still this the same layout in here where a foot on the east side five foot on the other side there's no real changes in here. It's just the sidewalks are wider. Now we're going past presidential presidential apartments here is still the same layout you scroll down more. And now we're at UMass housing and we're at Hobart Lane at this point in the project. Right now, there's an adjustment in this in the crosswalk here. We moved it back. We also upgrade it with our fees. And this is one one option for this intersection with the two apartment complexes is to have a regular four way intersection. As we go down part of the page as you'll see there's an option here to put a roundabout in here to slow people down. This is also where we pushed the wider sidewalk to the west side of the project and we pushed. We make the east side of the project a five foot wide sidewalk it just it's mostly done this way because it fits better in the right away. We do have to get right away from adjacent property owners but we get less right we have to get less property from the adjacent property owners doing it this way. So as we scroll down some more. That's not Hobart that's Crestview sorry. So keep going. So then as we here is a section here we are the same we have the bigger sidewalk on the west side and a smaller sidewalk on the east side. This is at the Pupton Village. So we're proposing a community development block grant project that will start at the south entrance to Pupton Village and go north to where we stopped last year with the sidewalk work. So this is the section that we're proposing for this year or next year to be constructed. It'll go from the south as I said the south entrance to Pupton north to the work we've already done. And this area, as you can see there is a new crosswalk at the new crosswalk at the entrance to the north entrance to Pupton that's not there now. That will also have RFBs with it. Like I said before the west side walk is eight foot wide the east side walk is five foot wide. And you can. Okay, and that's Well, that page of this page is a little out of place but can you skip this page. So then once we leave the pop and once we leave the two driveways from Puffton will continue working up North Pleasant Street to where we stopped before and that is in the area of Fisher Street. The other thing we're adding at Fisher Street is a crosswalk which wasn't there. There was no crosswalk at Fisher Street. This is a new crosswalk. And there's RFBs at this crosswalk as well. So the project, the construction project we have proposed for a community development block grant just goes from Fisher Street to the southern most Puffton driveway. And it just includes that stretch section of road. And then if you scroll down more you can see the part that was constructed last year. This piece has already been done at the bottom page. So that's the overall project. If you want to go up to the page we skipped over. So this is not proposed for this year's project but this is an option for the crest view apartments and the, the, Well, it used to be married housing it has a new name for it but I haven't said it enough to be used to it. This is a proposal alternate intersection proposals put around about in here. And it would work really well to traffic coming method, we believe and we would really like to do it but we're not. It's not in the construction schedule for this year. So that's kind of the project. Those are the major things we're talking about. Many questions. Yes, well, a couple of questions. The first was about the crosswalks being behind the bus stops. When Tracy Zaffian made her presentation and what's in our written report from tack. They are very kind of adamant they are that it is much safer it's been proven, you know traffic experts say it's much safer to have the crosswalks in front of the bus stops. It sounds like the bus drivers prefer it but in terms of, you know, measurable traffic safety protocols that the bus that the crosswalks should be in front so I wanted to ask about that. The TA prefers to have it at the back so that's how we set it up for the drivers that does make it easier for the buses to actually pull out because most automobile drivers once they once the bus pulls off on the bus side and there's no pedestrians crossing the road they just do not let the bus out. So the proposals for belcher town road there are no bus pull offs at the bus stops because the traffic is so heavy there that the buses cannot pull out of pull offs on belcher town road. So, it's kind of a, it's kind of a toss up, whether you can get the public transit to work better or whether you have better safety, we, we kind of like having them behind as well because it actually people are using it. And it does give the drivers of the vehicles, a better site of the pedestrian, whereas if you don't see the pedestrian and the bus is just pulled over and you don't see a car coming. There are cars that will pull around the bus and try to pass and if there's a pedestrian in front of a bus and steps out and gets hit. The pedestrian in front of the bus, here they're not as easily to be seen by the people passing the bus. So we kind of prefer the way it is. Yeah, I mean I, this is, I'm not a traffic safety expert so I just feel torn because we have traffic safety experts on tack and they're very adamant that it's, you know, safer it's been proven to be safer to have the pedestrians in the front so I'm just trying to picture pedestrian is crossing behind the bus. Would a car from the other direction. I mean that cars coming from the other opposite direction see them better if they were in front of the bus. If you're coming towards the bus you'll see the pedestrian better if you're coming from behind the bus you'll see the pedestrian better so it's kind of a six. It's kind of a toss up. I've seen the stuff that I've seen the studies that Tracy's pointing to and I really they don't seem to have as much play or impact in our area. They're also mostly a lot of double lane roads they're looking at stuff like that so we have not the people who have been hit while trying to cross the road at a bus stop have been out of the crosswalks. And they would be out of the crosswalks if they were immediately at the bus stops so we think we have a good system here and we should keep with it we don't want to really change that. If PBTA comes back and says they don't want it will change it then but it works really well. Thank you I have one other question can I ask. It was about old town the old town road bus stop. I listened in on a number of the ZBA hearings when it was about a complimentary dwelling project a special permit and the neighborhood, the far view lane and I guess all town road neighborhood did have a lot of concerns about that bus stop. Is that. And that was a concern about where you were going to move it to or where it was so it has the neighborhood I mean is there been any further discussion with the neighborhood on that because that I don't know if any of the residents from the neighborhoods are, you know in the audience at this meeting, they might not have realized it was on the agenda but I just want to raise that for the residents that aren't here. There's been more discussion we talked about sliding the bus stop farther down the road or farther north that you could make keep the driveway where it was. The concern was the driveway would move to old town and it'd be more traffic on old town. But we actually, it's not shown this because this is an old concept plan we can move the bus stop to the north and still keep our layout with the two bus stops and still keep the driveway for the apartment complex where it was. And that's what the residents would prefer. And there was no other conversation after they withdrew their application. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sorry, sorry. Yes, I just had a question about the bikes. Are they to go on the road or will they go on the sidewalks. The option of being on the multi use path which is the wider sidewalk or being in the road is what you'll have the choice of. Okay, so, so they would have to switch over from the west to the east at some point, where you change the multi. So, is there a crosswalk there. Yes, there's a, there's a proposal for a crosswalk at that. And if it goes to around about there'll be two crosswalks. Okay. Yeah, I mean, so it would basically be two way bicycle traffic is that correct. On the paths. It would be. Okay, pedestrians. Yes. So that's that's a having walked the rail trail. It's, it's sometimes people go, go by pretty fast. They don't, they don't always signal, but that's a that's a different story. Okay, thank you. Yeah, just a couple of quick things. First, coming off of what Jennifer was talking about and what's in the memo that tack has provided us. And I hope everyone had a chance to read because it's quite detailed and I think very helpful. I know Gilford is seeing it. The bus stop location issue. I think looking at what the map show us today. To Gilford, I can see that, that probably way of laid it out makes the most sense. I would think that the fact that each of these crosswalks would have flashing lights. I forget the are, you know, there's some four letter acronym that you guys use. RRFB. Anyway, they would be at all these locations. So I would think the lights, first of all, would be crucial to Tulane Road. Other traffic calming. I really liked the idea of the roundabout. We'd impact all of the crosswalks, obviously, but anything to calm traffic on that stretch, perhaps eventually we can look at even lowering the speed limit. So I think I see the challenge that Gilford faces and I think the solution they offer is probably the, the best that we can do. And I think there are other factors that actually would affect safety more than the location of the of the crosswalk is my amateurs take on that. The lighting was raised in the attack memo. I know there's no, I think in your memo you point out there's nothing about lighting in this. But that does seem to be an important safety factor in terms of all kinds of things. I don't know if there's anything you can say about whether that's something that could happen in the future, whether, but that seems to be a concern about the lighting. So maybe I'll let you do anything you can say about lighting Gilford other than it's not in the memo. So we're not going to talk about it. It's not in the concept here. Okay. The easiest way if you want to add lighting to the street is overhead lighting on poles that are fed by a wire overhead wire. That's the easiest way to do it. That being said, it would be, it would be possible to come back at a later point and put in light new additional lighting if that's what people want to do. And then if you if you could just for my sake, very briefly just go back over the staging I, if I understand you and I probably didn't. You're going to be working from the northern end from where you finished and work at the northern end and you're going to proceed southerly and you're going to go as far as the second puffed in driveway second puffed in driveway and you have money for this. So it's just a matter of getting approval and then proceeding with the work. It's being submitted as a community development block grant. It's approved as that will be able to proceed. And when do you think that might happen. Is it approved as a CDBG grant when, when might this happen in this coming construction season or we're talking a year from now or. It would be for it would be for next fiscal year so it could start as early as October 1st if the money comes in and we bid it before we get the money if we. We get it told we're going to get the money we could bid it and then we can start as early as October 1st we want to or we could wait and do it next season. And then the remaining piece of this and I want to really reinforce something that that I think has been said already how important this project is you've been at it for years now. It's it's a heavily traveled area. We've had a fatality here. And I'm really happy to see that this is moving forward. And I hope it can go as quickly as humanly possible, but the would there been be a 3rd piece so it's basically going to be in 3 stages or. Yeah, it could be 3 or 4 stages. Depending on how much money is available, we could finish it in 1 stage. If there's not enough money, then we can divide it into 2 stages and work our way through. If we if people really want the roundabout, then the cost goes up a bit. So that would be an impact to the project. And then I'll shut up, but I think the roundabout is a great idea. And for many reasons, but traffic calming would be the most important one. And I hope that if this does go forward, that that could be included, but thank you for making that clear. Thanks. Welcome. Yeah, along the lines, picking up on the financing piece has. The university been engaged you mass in a conversation about since this really, I know it's a public road, but it runs through the campus. And I think it's really contributing to defraying the cost for the town. So the university has been. They actually put some money for to help us do some other work in this corridor. This project had already been kind of laid out and we're pretty kind of comfortable and we think this is the way to go with this end of the project. We do some additional work we do mostly in the section of North Pleasant Street through campus, but we may overlap and come into the section that hasn't been done yet up to. I'm going to call it marriage student housing, but it's not marriage student housing to look at that they've set some money aside for that and we've begun talking about how to how to put that project together and look at that. So that is something that is coming again. I think the CDB grant what the amount you're requesting would cover. It's just the CDB will cover the section where we're proposing yes. Without the roundabout. That that doesn't the section we're proposing doesn't it doesn't include the area where the roundabout would be. That's a decision to be made in the future. Yes. I think the university and the town are I think together putting in an application for roundabout at Amity and university. Yes, you'll see they could do this. Yeah, they do the same at this roundabout. If it because they seem to feel it helped having the university on board and helping to advocate for it with the state. Yes, you'll see those plans surely I believe. I have a question about the crosswalks. Do you intend to raise them like the ones that are on route nine by Amherst college or just would they just be flat because that's another way to calm traffic. It is another way to calm traffic but this is a this is the major through fair for emergency responses. Unless there's a alternate route close by like main street was just right right over from Amherst call for college street. So you could kind of get around it without too much delay. We try not to put raised or vertical traffic calming in areas which is going to have a lot of ambulance and fire apparatus is moving on them. Fair enough. So, one of the questions that I had been posed by other members of the committee so thank you. The one thing, one of the things that was raised in the tech memo was the question of about lighting specifically at the crosswalks. And just the flashing lights alone are not adequate always to provide safety is there any thought to at least doing limited lighting in those sections, even though as I've looked at it there are other sections where there's lighting that could be a problem for safety. And this way and this is when there's not but it's not an issue. If we just look at the crosswalks and look at lighting that's something we can do pretty easily and we do throughout the town so we could do that as we go through the project. It would be overhead wire and it'd be overhead poles, if we did add a new lighting. So, that's not part of the plan and just a funding for a moment. We would take the funding if we decide we need to improve the light we would just take it from the normal lighting fundings we funding we have every year, and do it. Okay. Is giving back to the multi use path question. Is eight feet really sufficient for bicycles going both ways and that's trans being safe walking. So that is like that is a great question and people debate this constantly. One of the read one of the things that we're one of the things we're saying here is that, you know, most comfortable or most experienced bike riders are not going to ride on the multi use path. They're going to stay in the road. So the faster, more confident bicyclists will stay there what this does is allow for the bicyclists that are not confident and that are just trying to commute back and forth and are not really the, but not really the heavy bicyclists. It gives them a place to be. And then but they are mixed with the pedestrians and sometimes that does cause a problem. But as people get more confident we would hope that they would then get back on the road and you would be able to educate and build a better biking community by having this one when opportunity to buy the ride on the sidewalk for a while and then when you're ready to get onto the road. So that's kind of the goal. And because there is the room for riding on the road here that that should work well. If this was a bike path, this is a multi use path by itself with no other road around. We would say it needed to be bigger and we'd be 1212 or 14 feet and we'd be trying to do some more delineation about planes and so forth on the bike path. So, what you're looking for is a recommendation from the committee to the council on at least the crosswalks. To report that we've looked at the plane as a whole. Yes, and if you wish to want if you wanted to easily just say you approve the concept between Fisher and south driveway of Huffton village. And that you want to talk about the rest of the later time that would be fine. That would get us through this piece of it and then we could talk. I can say we agree with the concept wholeheartedly and you should move forward with everything, including the roundabout. The request in the memo was to approve the conceptual plan titled north pleasant street pedestrian improvements and show consisting of the four pages showing improvements to the sidewalks, crosswalks and bus stops along north pleasant from pine to Eastman lane. So the request doesn't include the roundabout at this time. So the roundabout image that we were set was there just FYI, it wasn't actually part of the proposal. So it's the four pages showing improvements. It's it's only the sidewalks, crosswalks and bus stops along north pleasant, not the roundabout. Paul, did you have something? Yeah, I know your hands. Yes. Yes, I yes. So the request is, as I'll seem to set is all the way from Eastman lane to pine street meadow street area. If we can get conceptual of the conceptual plan, those things change over time as you get into the field. We know that the construction in case funds come available sooner. Rather than come back every time we get a bit of money or there's some funds available. Knowing what direction we're going to through going to in this entire stretch of north pleasant street is important. So I would ask that you do the entire section without the roundabout. We can comment on the roundabout because it's not part of the motion doesn't need to be part of the motion. That's right. Well, with Athena's help again, I would be willing to make a motion to that effect that excluding the roundabout. Pretty much with Paul just and you'll first as said, I would move that we approve the concept plan. I think Athena could word that a lot better than I just did. But I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. So I'm going to suggest that you move to approve the conceptual plan titled. North pleasant street pedestrian improvements dated April 1. I'm sorry. Move to recommend. The council approve. The conceptual plan titled north pleasant street pedestrian improvements dated April 1, 2021. Consisting of four pages showing improvements to the sidewalks, crosswalks and bus stops along north pleasant street from Pine Street to Eastman Lane. And I would suggest that the committee's memo to the town council could include discussion on the roundabout, but that wouldn't be a part of your recommendation. So move. Second. Second. So Bob is seconded. So we have motion on the floor attorney for the discussion on the motion. Because the other thing that I would probably. Suggest including. Aside from discussion of the roundabout was discussion of the. Lighting question that. Hack has recommended. And I think that there was 2 questions I was just going to ask you for it at this point. Are there any sections that are not sidewalk to at least to some extent going. Either on either side of the street or is it continuous. There's sidewalk on North pleasant street all the way from Eastman to Pine Street. Okay, because the reason I asked that is in the tech memo that was referenced to a section. But there was not sidewalk when they did the initial inspection, but that that was years ago. No, there's always been sidewalk. Some of them are fairly narrow. I've driven it recently and it's some of them are. Fairly narrow and I think that there is a question as to whether there. Is some. Overgrown plantings that are interfering with the sidewalk. Yes, that's what they talk about in their memo is that the some of the sidewalk is lost because of the overgrowth grown. Overgrowth. Would that be addressed when when the work is done or does that need to be addressed through the application of the policy as they suggest. Most in the sections we're working on it will be addressed and other sections it should be addressed through the towns bylaws concerning blocking of the sidewalks. And we done what sections they are and. Really would have to come up through the inspections department. I assume. Yes, that's how it's set up now. Yeah, Councilor Ryan, anything else? Yeah, just quickly following up and your thoughts for the memo that will go to the council. I agree mentioning lighting would be. Something to mention again, the tech memo was quite helpful there. The other I thought just a suggestion to you when you write it. Perhaps also mentioning an idea of further traffic coming. Steps that might be taken, including reducing the speed limit as things to think about. We're not taking any formal position on that. We'll be looking at this issue. I think in town wide fairly soon. But I don't know if you'd like to mention that as well. And I would love to see that area. With a much lower speed limit given the density and the connection to the university, but that's just a suggestion. Yeah, we need to have a good discussion about speed limits is a separate issue because there's several statutes that are involved with that. And so maybe just the word traffic calming. All right, sure. I don't know what else you do traffic calming. I can stand out there and just tell people to slow down. I agree that the traffic, the idea of around about. Hope for that section in particular. Because I think it has very successfully. Thanks to hard work of Gilford and the rest of this. Our employees of getting that. Roundabout installed the Pomerai lane. That has been very helpful to we have a motion on the floor. It's been made in second. If there's no hands going up about further discussion, then we'll go ahead and vote. And so Jennifer. Yes. That's the Ryan. Bob Hegner. Yes. Yes, so again, it is a unanimous vote. And so with that, I don't know if anybody from the committee has anything else. Go for it. Go for it's here that they want to ask him. Is otherwise, no, we would like to let employees go. George. I'm not going to let go for go so easily. It's always a pleasure to have his presence and when we have his presence, we can ask him all kinds of fun questions. And at their last meeting we had Rob more here. And I think Jennifer was joining me in this, but I can't it's been so long now. I can't remember. But and we may never see snow again. And it seems almost perverse to talk about it on a day like today, but it's still March. Who knows? And it's New England. Go for the issue rose with when your, your guys are cleaning, you know, doing the sidewalks with snow removal at certain intersections, especially the one we were thinking it was Amity and Lincoln. They, at least in this one case and perhaps in other cases too, they sometimes leave the snow piled up such that if you're pedestrian wanting to cross at the crosswalk that you have, particularly at the Lincoln and Amity intersection, you put in those lovely lights and I use it now all the time. But you couldn't use it during the past and maybe only snowstorm of the year, because they had basically dumped all the snow right in the way. And the argument was, well, the homeowners would come out and clear it and a there wasn't any real homeowner anywhere nearby and be, I think that's a bit much to ask homeowners to do. So the question was whether to Rob was what what's the what what can we do about that. And of course he punted it to to you guys and said he would get back to you, which I doubt he did because he's busy just like you are. So since you're here, the question is, what's the instruction to your, your, your plow folks who are doing the sidewalks. And is it made clear to them that they should make every effort to keep those areas clear. Is it impossible to do that. It seems like it's not but what do I know. So that's my question for you. I think we ever have a snowstorm again of that magnitude. What would be the instructions to them to, you know, try to keep those areas clear is that something you could do is it. That's the question. We talk to him all the time about being. Well, the way we talk here about it is, is that, you know, you need to be polite to your fellow employee who's doing the sidewalk plowing. So you need to work in the trucks we need to work to keep trying to keep it open and trying to push things away from any of the known crosswalks. We do have a lot of new employees this year. So they don't, they're still learning the town we've been having a probably the last three, four years you have a lot of new employees are plowing. So sometimes it gets forgotten. They might do it the first two times, and then they forget, and then it backs up. And then we sometimes most of the time, we will send the snowplow the sidewalk plot again to try to clear it or we'll send the loader to just try to clear it. So if it's really one of the bigger intersections, just give us a call and rock and give us a call to and say this one's kind of backed up and we'll just go get it. That's kind of how it is right now. I wish the guys could figure out how to do it, but some of them just they forget already get tired. Better communication when it's when I saw it happen right away. I just need to get on the phone or and just reach out or somebody reach out and say, please, this is a problem. Please get out. I'm sure you will. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of how it works. And but I think some of the some of the ones we don't we kind of try to concentrate on the major ones we don't. The ones that are way off the middle of nowhere. Hey, I would that's not way off in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, this is a major one. It's a major major major. That's like, that's the road out town man. It's a big one. Anything else that anybody wants to raise the skill for today. I appreciate that. You reminded us that we did talk about so far because I think also has forgotten snow. I'm hoping for one more big snowstorm. Oh boy. Okay. Well, we'll put it to the test. All right. We've had a mid April. We have. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Very helpful. And we will turn it back to Paul now because I don't know if you have an order that you would like to present the appointments in. So as a courtesy to Melissa, since she's here, if we could do the crest director first, it's the biggest appointment. Is that okay? I think that's fine. So I'm really pleased to present as the new crest director, community director of communities founders for equity, safety and service. And if you haven't met Melissa, I think. Most of you have, but Melissa is our HR director. She's been here for a while now. So she seems like, you know, but just in case because we're doing these virtually so so much. So Camille Therriak is the new crest director that I've appointed. And I'm asking for your support for her appointment. Camille brings it's a really unique skill set where she was a lieutenant in the Holyoke fire departments and the first female lieutenant and the first black female lieutenant obviously and the Holyoke and she's had the so she has a public safety background. When she ended her career as a firefighter, she went to graduate school at the Massachusetts at the Smith School for social work and got her MSW and is a licensed social worker so she brings both a public safety and a social work background to the position. And that's, and that's a skill set we know the town had decided early on, based on this community safety working group recommendation that this, this department be placed in public safety. So that's something that we've really pioneered and most of these departments are placed in public health or community services areas. We've really been working hard to build the relationship between the fire department police department dispatch and crest and that's been, you know, going well, I think she will help with that communication. Melissa you want to talk about the process or anything like that. Sure, I'll just say that we had a person committee. I think five of those people were from the community. And we enter. I think we had a pool of over 21 candidates. We interviewed eight of them and referred four of those candidates to second round interviews. All in all, we ended up doing three rounds of interviews as well as meet and greets with the responders with a feedback loop. And in the end, Camille came out as a top choice. I, I agree with Paul that her background in both public safety and mental health is unique. Her demeanor coupled with that experience really makes her a choice candidate. It wasn't an easy decision because we had a really competitive pool, but I think we have the right person. Let me open it up to the committee to see if there are any questions. The. Interesting thing that I saw, of course, you've talked about public safety and. The fire EMS is very much a part of obviously public safety, but it is not the police department. Did you get a good feeling for how she will relate with. Police since that is the department that I think. Maybe most important of the two. Well, interestingly, both departments are important. We're utilizing the fire department has been very supportive of the Crest program. We're utilizing a lot of their reporting systems that they use because it's more. Conductive to how they, when they file reports, we're, we're logging, logging on to their system because they're experienced with it. They're training our employees. They. So, and I think that in this town, which is kind of unusual in most communities, there's a mutual respect between fire and police. And those departments get along really famously in our community, which is not the case in most communities. And that's a, I think that's a tribute to the leadership of those 2 departments. And I think she will have the instant respect of the different departments. As opposed to being someone strictly from a social work background. I think this is an impressive candidate. And I think the process is also equally impressive. And so I congratulate Paul and. HR and on the process and the candidate they presented. I was particularly struck by the fact that she does have some mental health background. She also has a degree in social work. And I've long felt that this is an area that I don't know if 1, thinks of that as public safety per se, but I think it's an area in which press can do a great deal of work. I described to Paul an incident that occurred about a week or 2 ago. When a young woman came to my door. I live on Dana Street. She was walking up Amity Street from big why she lives in the downtown. She had 2 bags of groceries with her. She had just done her shopping. And a person who was clearly mentally disturbed had seen her and was following her and shouting. She became quite upset. And so she just by accident. I shouldn't know who I was, but she ended up my doorstep. And so, you know, that's an example of the kinds of things that happen. Paul and I also happened the other day just to be meeting and a young man was standing right outside the near the black sheep. And again, mentally disturbed and shouting and yelling at the top of his voice. And so we have these kinds of experiences in town. And, you know, it's not clear what we do. I actually ended up walking down to the police station afterwards and just reporting the incident just to see, you know, but it's really not a police response. Whose response is it and what do we do when someone is actually being harassed or in that way. So I was pleased to see that she has that background and hopefully she'll have some thoughts and ideas about how crest can be involved in that. And also how we can instruct the public and what to do or not to do in those circumstances because I've had to now in the last couple weeks where I was personally involved. My wife also has had encounters on Amity Street with another individual who also is mentally disturbed, who I just saw the other day often walks up and down the actual roadway doesn't walk on the sidewalk. He walks in the roadway. So this is, you know, not a common phenomenon, but is one that's real. So, I'm pleased to see that she has this background and I'm looking forward to her thoughts and the way in which crest can be involved in this. Jennifer. Yeah, just echoing George, I think it's, we're very fortunate to have a candidate and who has accepted the position who comes with a public safety and a mental health background. So, I look forward to meeting the new press director. Councilor Ryan. So I'm prepared to make a motion if you are ready for that. I think we were ready for a motion. So I move to recommend the town council approve the town manager's appointment of Camille very act as director of community responders for equity, safety and service. Second. Did you hear. You seconding the motion. Yeah, I seconded the motion. Yeah. Okay. So is the motion that's been made in second. I think there's been plenty of discussion. If there are no hands going up. I'll go ahead and move to a vote. Start with councilor Ryan. Hi. Yes. Hi. Hi. Jennifer. Hi. And I'm an eye so it's four to zero. And thank you very much. And I think that. This is a somebody who is great promise and really pleased with the process. So, thank you. So Paul, back to you, you have some committee appointments. We had public comment on one of the committee. Just go through them alphabetically. So the next one. Thank you. I don't think we need. So, thank you. Yeah, thanks. For conservation commission. The appointment is Rachel Luffler. Miss Luffler is a town resident, which is great and also registered landscape architect who has extensive work in the western mass area of working as one of the principal of Berkshire design. She has followed a lot of the work of the conservation commission. And especially with a special interest in climate change and how that's impacting some of the decisions that we're making as a town and individual property owners have to make as well. We take into account rising groundwater and things like that. So. So I recommend appointed up for your consideration Rachel Luffler. So there are any questions Bob. Councilor Ryan. I'm ready to make a motion unless someone has something they wish to ask or to say. I'll just say something. I'm very pleased that she's focused on the rainfall events that occur. Due to climate change and it's been one of my issues that I've noticed just, I've had to put put rocks down beneath one of my downspouts because the rain is so bad. Now that it just over, it comes off the roof and over overwhelms my gutters. So everyone who is a homeowner needs to, you know, it's probably going to have to adjust something because of the rainfall. So just wanted to point that out. It's an issue. Yes, but we do you have made a motion. Right. Well, I'm going to make a motion if you're willing to entertain it. So I move to recommend the town council approved the town manager appointment. Of Rachel Luffler for a term to expire June 30, 20, 27. To the conservation commission. As filed with the town clerk on March 12, 20, 24. So you're right Athena. Great job. Thank you. Okay, much from made and seconded and there's no further discussion. See your hand is still up, but I assume that's not for further discussion. So I will see to vote. Bob. I. I'm going to vote I Jennifer. Yes. Councilor Ryan. Hi. So it is unanimous. All back to you. Thank you. The next appointment is for something Jennifer. Yes, I don't want, I don't want to interrupt the process, but I did want to make a comment, not. It's not directed at all, but it, it's just that I. Wanted to state that and I just brought this up in GOL last term. That I do have questions about the process and why the town. Council appointed committees, which is the ZBA, the planning board and the finance committee. Is so different than. The committees members that are appointed by the town manager in that the council committees, it's all completely transparent. And I think it's important to make sure that every, because we would be violating open meeting law to not have it be. It's the public is aware of who's applying. The public sees all the statements of interest. They see the community activity forms, which are the applications. The interviews are part of a public meeting as are the deliberation and the selection process. So I, I do share the concern and I should probably know this, whether it's part of our charter and if this is something that charter committee could address. But it, I don't feel I've never felt comfortable with a process where the applicants are not known, because it does feel like, and this is my first time on TSO. I might have thought that TSO had more information before they made the recommendation to the council, but we really can't do anything other than rubber stamp because of the way it's structured. So I, with the elementary school building committee, I happen to know who the other applicants are because they made themselves known to me. I don't know who any of the applicants were for any of these other committees, but I do think there is a, there is a structural problem with the process. And I, this may not be the committee to discuss it, but I, I do throughout the question, is this something that the charter review committee, it would be in their purview to address. I have that question if anyone, maybe the town manager can answer that. I'm not sure what would be in the charter, charter review committee. But so I think the difference is that with a council appointment, it's a council appointment. It's a public body making an appointment, whereas the town manager is an individual making the appointment and I can consult who I would like. Athena has her hands up. She's probably going to say it's not on the agenda. So maybe I'll defer to her. I was going to scold you as part of my comments, but that wasn't the only thing that this, this issue had come up at TSO in the past and I think what members had asked the town manager to present as part of his appointment was the number of applicants and the the demographics of the applicants because the community activity forms aren't public records. So that seemed acceptable to members at the time and that was the extent of the conversation at the time. And of course it is in the charter and the charter has a resident advisory committee and all might talk about the resident advisory committee and how that factors in. But the charter is designating the appointments by the time manager go in this fashion and we do have all of the barriers that are there, including the question of whether the the citizen activity forms are a matter of public record or not. And that has been discussed in prior councils because I think there is a difference in how Northampton has dealt with it in a similar way. I think there are citizen activity forms explicitly say on them that they are not, but they are open to the public, they are public records, ours do not. So there's a whole lot of issues that fall there. I do think that the point that is set on the agenda we probably ought to not get into a big discussion about it today. But if we want to talk about that issue, place it on the future agenda. Jennifer. Yeah, no, I would like to place it on the future agenda because I have more questions. Dana, your hand is still up. Could you have anything where you want to say? Just one other quick point. So, because the town manager, the town manager can convene any committee to advise him. And as long as his decision, the decision rests solely with the town manager, those, any committee or group that advises the town manager isn't subject to the open meeting law. So with that, we're on to the next. Okay. Thank you. So go to design review board. The appointment, the appointment subject to your approval is Karen Bloom of 27 Tanglewood road. We have to do one thing. I have to be married to Karen. So I need to. Athena, can you place me in the audience? So for the right for the public and for the rest of the committee to know. Paul is not about to make his recommendation. It happens to be. One of our counselors spouse. And so. That's why I was asked to be to step out of the meeting for this one discussion. Which I did not know until just now. So. So, Miss. Miss bloom is has a keen sense of design that she has communicated when we were doing the interviews. She has a strong appreciation for the town's history and community values and level of public engagement. She's. She doesn't have a direct design background, but she has a family history with some pretty impressive. Family members who are architects and things like that. But what she communicated to us mostly was about the need her interest in looking at design from a person's point of view in terms of how public design. Impacts residents who are walking down the street or in how it makes you feel so she was a strong candidate and so I made her appointment subject to your approval. Any comments or questions from. All the counselors, that's Brian. I wasn't aware of the connection, but that's not relevant really when I look at this Paul the only thought I looked at the charge we do get a fair amount of information by the way when Paul makes these. These appointments or when he brings them to us. And 1 of the key elements is the charge and that probably will come up in a minute later in another. Issue, but the composition of this body is spelled out in the charge and as I know, Paul knows well. It says the 2 of the members should be registered architects landscape architects or persons with equivalent professional training. And so that was going to be my question. It is my question actually. And I guess Paul, your answer is that this is someone who has. Personal familial experience, but actually has no professional training. Is that is that a fair. Correct. Another candidate. Okay. Correct. I think there are other people on the committee who have that experience. The person who is taking does not have is does not have professional training either. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Well, actually I prepared to make a motion then. Did you have a question? No, I just. That we, I just was responding to George, I agree that we do. Receive a lot of information. As to the qualifications of the candidate being recommended, but what we don't know in the process is who else was an applicant. George. Yeah, I was going to move to recommend that the town council approved the town manager appointment. Of Karen bloom. For a term to expire. On June 30, 2025. To the design review board. Has filed with the town clerk on February 27, 2024. Second motion and seconded. Let's see. Further discussion. I will vote yes. Councillor Ryan. Yes. And Jennifer. Yes. Okay, with that, I think. Bring Bob back into the room. Into the meeting. And then Paul can make the next presentation as soon as he's back in. Okay. All back to you. Thank you. So next appointment is the elementary school building committee. I'm appointing Bruce Colnham of 159 Pine Street. And so Mr. Colnham is an. Architect who has attended pretty much every elementary school committee building committee meeting since, since it began. And he is a well known architect. In town who is now retired. And in my memo, I talk about the, what the committee needs at this moment in time. And the, the, in terms of the process, we had the chair of the school building committee whose counselor Shane. Myself and a member of the residents advisory committee. Conduct the interviews. And one of the considerations we are looked at is, was in terms of what is needed at this moment in time. And right now we are through the public engagement part that, that has already been completed. We are in the process of building. We're letting the, the contract, the contract go. And there is a complicated building. And Mr. Colnham is a. Has advanced knowledge about net zero buildings being one of the leaders in the nation on this knowledge. And so we really are focused on building materials. And the, and the climate. Features that we're putting into this building, including geothermal. So right now. Our sense was that this, this committee really needed the support of building in an energy expertise. And which is why I have appointed Bruce. Jennifer. Yeah, so I'm. I've served with Bruce Colnham for a number of years on the local historic district commission. I have. Really supported him for the planning board. I have nothing but respect and high regard for Mr. Colnham, but I did want to ask, do you. Because it came up in public comment in terms of a parent. That perspective being on the committee. If you could respond to that, please. Yeah, so we have a number of educators and parents. On the committee, let me just see if I can pull up the membership right now. And there are certain, let me just, I'm sorry, it takes me a second. So we have a parent on the committee Angelica Bernal, who's. Who is also who's involved with it. We also have. The school committee, Deb Leonard Leonard and Jonathan Salvin is also a resident member who's also a parent of students in the district. And we have counselor Walker, who's also a counselor, but also a parent of students in the district. So we have several parents who are already on the committee. I think the other thing that I would just point out in support of what. Time managers said regarding somebody with net zero energy experience. My prior life and select board. I was a chair of the committee that developed the final net zero. Energy by law. Which is an adopted and has been in place and is part of what we're doing and. This was very helpful from his background. Professionally in advising us as members of the committee. On several occasions, both. Context between the two of us, me as chair and Bruce is an outside expert and the committee as a whole. He is quite knowledgeable about the subject. So I just wanted to reinforce that. Yeah, Bob. Yeah, I just wanted to echo that that sentiment. I think the one thing that concerns me about the new elementary school was that we're getting into areas where we don't have a lot of expertise and. Things can go very bad very quickly. If you don't know what you're doing. So I think it's good to have that kind of experience. Helping us build, you know, through the construction phase of this of this building. Yeah. Are there any other architects on there? No architects. Background on the midi now. This is Jonathan Salvin from Coon Riddle. That's right. Just wanted to get that out. Um, yes, I said, you know, my concern is more with the process, but I hope that we can address that in another meeting. And also a concern that I think there are some residents. Who bring a lot of expertise that apply multiple times to serve on our multiple member bodies and. I don't have the opportunity to do so. So I would like to look at if the process can address that as well. Okay. I think that we would take that to a separate. Back topic. Council right. Prepare to make a motion. I move to recommend the town council approved the town manager appointment. Of Bruce Coldham to the elementary school building committee. For a term to last the length of the MSB a process. As filed with the town clerk. On February 27, 2024. Second. Is motion made and seconded. Any further discussion. Let's vote on the motion and then I may have one quick follow up before we go on to the next committee. But council Ryan. Hi. Bob Hector. Hi. For town. Yes. I mean, yes. So it's four to zero. Thank you. I was wondering if there would be any objection to. Including in the report that we have unanimously recommended this appointment, the reasons why. And to recognize that. During public comment, we had received the question as to whether. There should be an additional parent. Of a current school age. Student. And the. We did consider that and they're passing. Along to the council, but that was an issue that had been raised in public comment. I will include that in the report now, of course. Trying to get a report done fairly quickly now after this meeting and. Send it to the committee for review. So. Well, back to you. Thank you. So the last appointment on your agenda is for the Jones library building committee. And I'm appointed Alex. A 52 North present prospect street for this committee. Alex was a member of the committee. When she was a member of the board of library trustees, when her term ended her term as a member of the committee. Ended as well. But she has extensive experience has worked really hard on this project from the very beginning she chairs. She did chair the library and building library building facility subcommittee. And has served on the joint capital planning committee. But most importantly, she did a lot of outreach and a lot of work on net zero. Energy for the new library. So I am appointing her. To this position. Is there any. Okay, that's right. You have your, did you have your hand. Sorry, I'm prepared to make a motion. I think. Is there anybody who has questions. We all okay, go ahead then. If there's no questions. I move to recommend the town council approve the town manager appointment of Alex the fev for a term to expire at the conclusion. For a term to last for the length of the building process to the Jones library building committee. As filed with the town clerk on February 27, 2024. Is there a second. I'll second. There's motion and made in second. Any further discussion. Bring none. Go to vote. Councilor Ryan. Hi. Jennifer. Yes. Bob. Hi. And I'm an eye. So that's four to zero. And I think that we are. Done with that. With appointments. Is there anything else you have to. Report to us at this point, Paul. No. So we have a couple of agenda items that we should get to and. One is, I think the next one. Jennifer, you had started saying that you had something you wanted to raise about it. And that is. The request from GOL that if we have recommendations as committee for changes. In the committee charge that. We let them know. And I think we actually. Continue this to the next meeting, but I wanted to at least get it out on the table. Today. So I put it on the agenda. Okay. Thank you very much. So. Do you want to start. Did you have. In terms of the committee. Comments about, I'm looking for comments about. The committee charge anything that. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't have a question. Oh, yeah. No, no, I had a, I did have a question on the committee charge. It mentioned that TSO works with the colleges and universities. I don't. And I wanted. Just to, I mean, I think that's great, but what has that ever happened and what that entails. Let me, I'm trying to pull up that. I'm trying to look for that section. It's under, it's under the outreach portion outreach and community relations. It says review and make recommendations to the town council on issues. And measures related. Excuse me regarding the relationship between the town. And Amherst institutions of higher education. Thank you. I do not recall. TSO has. That we've ever. Done anything directly related to that. To that because. The. Community and campus community coalition. Is that necessarily been related. To the work of this committee. In particular, and. To the strategic partnership agreement serve town manager. Responsibility. I don't know if Paul or. Seen to have any recollection different, but I don't recall any. Discussion. That's right. Well, I think the fact that we haven't doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't. That's a whole, but I think that's we're going to talk about. And I don't think we're going to have enough time today to do it, but I think it's something that we need to talk about. I don't suggest that we look back to the past and determine what we should do in the present. I think the question is, what does the charge say? What, what are we called upon to do? And if the committee is willing to explore something related to its charge, it seems it's perfectly free to go ahead and do so. So this is a fairly broad statement issues and measures. And it doesn't limit it just to the areas of CCC, which deals more with student behavior. We already had an issue today and it's a matter we were dealing with related to north pleasant street where the question arose appropriately. Is there a way in which the university could be involved financially and the answer was it already is engaged in that. So it may very well turn out that that there are places where these actions, this is occurring at a whole nother level and there's no role for us. This statement seems to suggest that there could be and that's a matter for this committee to decide that the five members need to talk about it. And say, well, I think this is something we should put on our agenda and maybe invite someone to come in and talk to us. I think that's what it says. And so I, you know, I'm not saying I'm not presenting anything particular today, but it seems certainly something that we could consider in the future. I think that also applies to a number of other things related to services in general. It seems to me that this is a body that could invite people to come and talk about provision of town services and how successful or unsuccessful they feel they are. And it's not in the, it's not the intention to tell Paul how to do his work. It certainly is not that intention at all. But it is, I think, first of all, an outreach function from our behalf to find out what people are thinking about the services and how well they think they're being served. And that could be a valuable tool for Paul and for staff members to hear these voices. I guess you could argue they could go directly to Paul. But I think this is actually part of our job as a kind of intermediary between the residents whom we serve and Paul. So I think there's a role for us here. And I'd like us to be more active in this area. If the council, excuse me, if the committee so, so agrees. And one of them would be university relations, but I think there are other areas as well. I've mentioned already senior services as a place where I think this is a basic town service. And I don't see why this committee can't find out what people are thinking about how well the town is doing. What we're doing, but how well we're doing and what we could do better. And what we're doing well. Yes. I don't know that we want to go into this discussion today. However, because the item on the agenda is actually whether we have any recommendations for change. To the current charge that was the request. That we're responding to and so. Essentially, we've focused on one paragraph and say, we like it being there. So we're not asking for a change is basically what it's for the purpose of what's on the agenda. I think that's the message Athena. I would respectfully disagree because I don't think the current charge includes an evaluation of town services. The committee is tasked with advising the council on matters that broaden participation and ensure regular and transparent communication and outreach to residents which, which doesn't really speak to what George had mentioned. It also works with community participation officers to engage the community and advise and make recommendations to the council regarding participation in community events. So again, those are, you know, advisory roles to the council rather than asking the committee to evaluate town services. Which I think falls very directly within the town managers function. So I think that if the council wanted to change the charge to include an evaluation of town services as part of TSO's function, that would be a change. Through your focusing. Thank you for bringing it back. Yes, I was focusing on the question of the very narrow piece about the inclusion of the university and not the other. Jennifer. I'm sorry. Oh, I am muted. I, I'll let George respond to, you know, what Athena's just responded to him but I'll just add that I would like to have the committee discuss how we work with the colleges and university. And then I'll let George pick up on the town evaluating how well we're delivering town services. We'll go back to George. Well, I'm just going to read the first sentence of our purpose TSO shall advise advise the town council on matters concerning the day to day provision of services by embers government. And the relations between the town and the community. How can we do that if we don't actually talk to the town community if you don't invite them to come. I'm not, I'm not talking about evaluating town services. I'm not talking about us being in communication with through our public meetings with various elements of the community that are recipients of town services to just hear what their experiences like. I'm not saying that we're then I'm not saying let's evaluate DPW or let's evaluate seen the senior center. But I would like very much to have this, this committee be a place where people feel they could come and just express to us or tell us how they feel services, how they feel the services are going. And for us to hear that. Otherwise, you know, so I think the statement is pretty clear. So I think part of the issue is how we interpret this charge. And that's what we're talking about a little bit today, because we don't understand what it says. We can't really propose a change. So I would feel that the way it states way it is right now gives us the authority or power to do some of the things that I'm suggesting we do Athena. I think very much disagrees. And so this committee needs to, I think, not necessarily this moment, but soon sort of say, well, this is what we think this says. And if they agree with Athena, then we would have a discussion about how we'd have to change it and we have to go back to the council and say we want you to insert evaluating town services. I don't really see it in that light. Maybe I don't think I'm being coy here. I think it's really about outreach. And it's about a place where people can come or we can reach out and to a particular segment of our community that receives town services and invite them to come and talk to us about their experience and we would listen. And I think that's a pretty basic and important function. And it's kind of what I had in mind when I helped form this committee back in the old days. So, I guess I need to hear what my colleagues think. Do they think we need to go to the council and ask for their permission to do what I think the charge pretty much tells us to do. And if so, then we should have that discussion. What do people think this charge says. Andy, if I may. Yeah, go ahead. I love that you refer to just a few years ago is the old days. That's the Ryan. And, you know, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think that then the needle that the committee would need to thread is what advice would the committee give to the town council about the provision of services since. The day to day operations of the town are within the executive function in the charter. So I think, you know, the committee would have to figure out what. How listening to community members about town services could then be advisory from the committee to the council about some change, because I think it would be. Not not advisable to hear from community members without the expectation that. The council is going to do something with that. With that input, you know, just listening to folks and then not having a plan for how. Those that input could be used, I think, is it can be frustrating for residents to speak to a committee and then not have some action. So I think clarifying what, what advice that count the committee would give to the council. Would be a good first step. Before you start to hear from community members so that there's a clear pathway from what the community members are telling the committee to what actions the council might take with that advice. George, I guess I'm struggling to see how I can this committee. Can advise the council without actually hearing from the people who receive the service. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying we. We need to hear from folks and it doesn't mean we're going to do anything. And we'll be quite straightforward. I mean, you know, we just want to hear from various elements. I mean, how is what's your experience of our services and maybe the answer. I mean, maybe nobody will respond because they're super happy. I have two questions then to follow up on. One is that the sentence we're talking about currently says review and make recommendations to the town's council on measures that may affect the provision. And what is a measure. I assume that the sense of the word is if there is something that is being proposed in the nature of a bylaw or another action. And that is what we're, if a bylaw or some other policy question comes up that affects the provision of town services like. You said is the example that that is a very specific measure. It is, you know, the word measure is kind of a funny choice of words, but it is what's there. But I think that that's what was intended. That's the way I interpret it. Evaluation of town services to what to the extent that it comes up as part of the evaluation of the town manager. Because that's where we're evaluating the services that are offered. And if there was great dissatisfaction with some segment of town government. I think that that's where council gets into seeking community input. About how services are being provided and where the council has her all. First, I just want to note, I have to get off to go to another meeting, but I did want to mention if the goal is to. Evaluate town services, you know, through a community survey or public meeting. I think you would want to approach this sort of. More scientifically, like, what, what is the. Goal of the council and approaching this. And I think one of the ways there are multiple tools that are at our disposal. That communities use all the time in terms of surveying people who are using using services. Public comments, things like that. But I think you, if you, if the goal is to evaluate town services, which I think what what counselors are in referencing. I think there are effective ways to do that that represents a broader community that might include a public forum type format, but could also include other things for people who don't typically attend forums as well. And I think we talked a little bit about that when with community participation officers, it's just that people got overwhelmed with other work that's on their plate. Okay, thank you. So you have to check out to include the meeting to. For purposes. That's Ryan. I have a suggestion on as to where to go with this. Yeah, I think I think I want to bring it to conclusion. I understand the meeting is we've reached the end of our time. You know, there's there are a series of reports that are done. They've been done over the years related to town services. And they basically set on a shelf. You know, I find myself reading them sometimes and thinking, you know, do people really know anything about these. In terms of, you know, senior services, recreation. It's set and so forth. And there's basic things that speak to the services that the town provides. And I feel that that I'm often in ignorance. And yet I'm supposed to be again advising. The town council on matters concerning the day to day provision of services. So I agree that under the charge, it just says speaks of measures. So if people share with me, and we'll come back to this, I know Andy, but they share with me a sense that that we have a slightly bigger role. As a way as a place for us to learn, first of all, about the services that the town provides and read some of the reports that are created with great expense in time. And then speak to and consult with or listen to. Various groups in town that are users of our services. Simply to get an understanding of what we're doing and how's how what's their sense of what's their perception of it. Are they happy, unhappy, whatever. I don't know if you want to call that evaluation. I guess you could. I just am trying to get us to a point where we feel like we as a committee have a sense of what. How well the town's doing the job, not how it's doing it, but how well it's doing. And I don't see how we can do that just through a survey. And I've seen some surveys and, you know, I just so. Again, enough for me, but I hope we can come back to this at some point soon. I'm sorry to interrupt Andy. I also have a 12 o'clock meeting that I'm. That I'm late for so I need to ask that you wrap this up in the next few minutes as well. No, well, so nice. My recollection and the thing is, is that is not looking for them. They gave us a date and it's after the next meeting. I don't think there's a sense of urgency from GOL at the moment. I don't think GOL has heard from other committees yet. And the focus right now for the committee is to. They're, they're trying very hard to get their applicant pool sufficient for finance committee, non voting finance committee members and charter review committee members. So, and then they'll be focused on interviews and so on. So, I don't think there's a sense of urgency about this. So, but the next meeting. Thank you. That's helpful because I think that what George is actually pointing out is that the purpose of the committee as stated in the charge. Does not necessarily then flow into the next piece of the charge, which says the TSL committee shall. And that he does what I think that George is really getting at is that that particular piece that he's talked about on measure. From the purpose doesn't flow into the second section. Any counselor including counselor Ryan who has suggestions for changes to the charge that would clarify that and bring a little bit. More strength to a particular issue, not just this one. Either on community on town services or outreach and community relations. That bring that suggestion to the next meeting. And we will. They'll allow us to conclude the discussion for today. And the only thing that's then left. Is are people ready to approve the minutes of February 1st and February 15th. Jennifer. Yeah, I had one addition to them that I didn't see in the minutes. So I'm pretty sure it was that meeting where I had. Asked if the waste taller RFI response report. Could be made would be presented at the March 14th meeting, which is today. I had requested it and I had actually expected it to be on the agenda today, but I wanted that to please be in the minutes. Was that on February 1 or February 15. I'd have to check. I'm not. Is it in our February 1st. Have we done our February 1st minutes. They're in the packet. Oh, I didn't see the February 1st in the packet. It was a late addition, but they're okay. We should hold off. It should be in one of the minutes. The other thing I went, I urge you to look at is something that was else's in the packet. For today's meeting and that is. The thing that. It's a chart of. All of the TSO meetings that we have planned for the next several months. Actually through April. Right now, and. I don't think it can quickly put it on the screen, but it's there for you. It's in the packet and it is on the 28th that we put in the. Waste taller RFI. And basically what George and I did in meeting with Athena and Paul. Was to take. All of the things that we needed to do. And to try and divide them evenly among meetings so that we would. Make sure that we were. Balancing the time requirements and the. Amount of who we were asking to be at the meetings so that we could. Not. So be asking people to come to meetings. Every time thinking particularly of DPW. So we relate to them so frequently. So this is what we came up with. And if you have any comments about it, you don't have to. You can send. Just me as an individual. Don't send it to the group because I don't want to. Any deliberation on this outside of. An open meeting, but you can make comments. Jennifer. Yeah. So we were told today, I think they word that on the. March 28th. It was going to be a report on waste taller. No, not a report. But I want it. Okay. Can we get some clarity that the report on the RFI responses. Will come on that date. Yes, it is. Look at the fourth bullet under the 28th. Right. No, I'm just saying, because I heard the word update on that report, but I want to clarify it will be the actual report. My understanding that is. The report. Okay. So noted, but that is my understanding, George. So can I make a motion then to approve. The minutes as presented. For February 1st and for February. Let's hold that off because Jennifer. Let's look at the minutes again. Okay. All right. So we're ready. Okay. Jennifer, if you have edits to the minutes, if you please send them to me before. I will do that. I don't want to hold this up now. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And then I'll share that the, our. The advice from KP law about adjourning meetings is to take a motion and vote. So it's very clear when the meeting has adjourned. So I would advise the committee to take up that practice. Okay. I'm going to start by making a motion to adjourn. See if there's a second. Okay. Can we discuss this place? Don't you either discuss it or vote. I vote aye. I vote aye. Jennifer. Aye. Bye. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Bye bye. Bye.