 Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly. Joining me as always is my own quad dice ability. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends. Also joining us this week. We're thrilled to have him back on the show. Uncle Adam from Tabletop Minions, one of the large staff they have there. What's going on, sir? How you doing? Yes, it's going well. It's, you know, staying mostly indoors. Spending time sheltering in a hobby and having a good time. Yeah, absolutely. Have you been getting more done? Do you find yourself actually being a little more hobby productive? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely because I'm like, you know, during the normal week back in the day in the big in the before times, um, I would honestly like I get to hobby more on the weekend but during the week I would if I was lucky get to hobby maybe I Don't know like maybe two nights a week because you know I'm making a video on Thursday or Wednesday usually and I'm you know hanging out with a bunch of friends on Friday and stuff like that and whatever and maybe you know having dinner with my Mom and that kind of thing. And so yeah, now it's basically I can usually hobby One day Tuesday Wednesday at least, you know, and then we you know on Fridays We've been the the group that we normally hang around with we've been talking on discord But I can be hobby while I'm doing that. So it's kind of helpful as well. Yeah double-dipping good. Good. I like it I like it. Yeah, it's funny because My regular D&D group has moved online, of course We don't all get together which is meant that now I'm sitting at this desk And I'm like well when everybody used to come over to play I would step away And we'd be at the other table and obviously hobby there But if I hate yeah, if I'm gonna sit at this desk anyway, yeah Why does well, right? Yeah, so Vince now or you are that guy at your D&D table who's not dialed in Thank you very much. I'm perfectly dialed in it's You know just also maybe getting some paint done. It's just responsible. I'm just just maximizing my efficiency All right, dude, let's get to the news though. What do we got going on Tom? Oh Man, we got tons of stuff Surprised to me rumor engine Yeah, it's up on the screen. It is it is two hands with some kind of bone flute Jammin on the bone flute Generally means something else, but we're gonna we're gonna stick with this. I'm just gonna keep calling it the bone flute. Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, just Just blow it on that bone flute. So Obviously there is already a nirgle piper with something similar Yep, yep Gf thoughts on this Tom or I mean Adam go ahead. I'll let you take shot. I feel like it's it's one of two things at first. I was like, oh, it's probably orc Because they feel like they would use bone flutes, I guess I mean, that's just you know, but like the hands seem too small honestly so now I'm a little bit leaning either towards potentially grots or maybe even I Um, I don't know it could be Seraphon lizard folks potentially. Yeah, it does kind of look like tiny little lizard hands Who would also probably use a little bone flute like it's they that the hands do look very skinny, right? They are little fingers. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I could see that. I thought about I thought about seraphon as well Yeah, I thought about lizard men slam whatever we want to call them, whichever generation this is Right Tom, what about you? You stick in with Nurgle. It's clearly Nurgle The so it has three fingers, which is what Nurglings have. Okay And so there are other things that have three fingers in the world But yeah, but if you look at all the early hands, it's the scale of Nurglings. So here's my call I think it's either a full Nurgling Blood Bowl army, okay Like a blood bowl team of Nurglings like they've went halflings And so they're gonna swing the other way and do the other fun wacky thing, which is all these eight They shouldn't they don't care about power And so I'm gonna go with Nurglings or this is part of maybe the new Nurgle release that we had predicted And this could be like a like an underworlds. That's like a demonic underworlds Nurgle warband and so we could get them. We don't have we don't have like a plague bear or Nurgling Underworlds warband and so this could potentially be that those are the two things that I'm gonna go for but like it to me like music and Nurgle and The even the aesthetics like it all just rings like sloppy bio piper like if you go look at the models It's it looks like super in line with the design kind of aesthetic there Okay, so the question is is it just vanilla Nurgle to me? Is it the question is it vanilla Nurgle or does it fit in one of those other boxes? Gotcha. Um Yeah, so like I would love to see like a full underworlds Nurgling warband or something like really have them go wild So the Nurgling jam band comes to the underworld, right? Right like it's just like a like a jazz ensemble. Maybe there's a Nurgling with like a judge. It's the jug band It's it's Emmett Otter's Nurgling Christmas jug band Nurgling jug band Christmas. Yes, absolutely. I Will be super excited to not buy that I Just like I just don't like I don't know what it is. There's something like I love like blight kings I love all that kind of stuff But when they start getting into like Nurglings with the little kind of comic relief like dancing around farty blobs. It's not I'm just not interested I don't know what it is, but I just don't like it. All right. Yeah, I mean like it's Obviously, everybody knows the model I'm talking about but here's the like to me. This is just this This like that The flute and all that could be on the base of this model on a Nurgling And so like it just it's completely in line with the design of sloppity So we'll see we'll see but that's what I that's where my votes at. I'm boring No, I think it's a good vote. I look I'm gonna support your idea for Emmett Otter's Nurgling jug band Christmas extravaganza party because That sounds amazing Well, let me just jump in like and you've hit on something the other thing that we don't often consider for models Is that it could be a special edition model like to celebrate an anniversary or something like that? You said a Christmas, you know, a Christmas band or whatever, but We do have the fifth anniversary of AOS coming this summer and you think they're gonna celebrate that with a piping Nurgling band. I don't But I mean that would be an amazing way to celebrate. I'm not gonna lie Maybe they maybe they do it with a whole demon band. So all of your all of your chaos demons and so you can have like a Corn drummer like a bloodlet a bloodletter drummer, maybe corn would really be the guitar player Well, yeah, but do they have guitars? I mean sure. Yeah, but today Yes, they could think a stringed instruments are very ever-present in the world They have been I mean thousands of years. I don't believe it One of those big triangle Russian ones, you know You can hit somebody with it potentially Absolutely, I mean like I saw the picture of corn in the soulbound book that dude loves guitar. That's what he's all about I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah, like the the you know, I I think a chaos band would be amazing Yeah, I fully support that so Forehand so in 40k. So, you know and there's been jokes about it Obviously and so the like I could see something like that as some celebratory model of like having a You know like a marching parade or whatever of little demons Yeah, I think I just want to quickly call out a comment that's rolled by here because I agree with it Paul our good buddy Paul friend of the show had said what happened to Tom's hobby table It's just got a chest of ice and a very small amount of organized miniatures. This is the cleanest your hobby table has been in in months, Tom months I See you've taken a strong hand. You're doing your spring cleaning here. I apparently Yes I'm having to operate professionally out of this space and so it's changing the way that I'm actually functioning sure Clean space clean mine. So there you go All right, what else we got What else so just all the luminous stuff this week no pause shut up shut your mouth I got a quote Dana here. They just said Emmett slaughters Plaketown Christmas Like nailed it that is what it is Sorry, that's too incredible not to interrupt you. That is my favorite thing maybe ever in the history of this show So, yes that that should happen Emmett slaughters Plaketown Christmas. I love that so much Please GW make this be the thing that's happening. All right, please continue Tom. I'm sorry That struck me as the greatest thing ever elves elves yes, oh lots of elves. We had the luminous book get announced today Kind of moving backwards today was the book Earlier yesterday. We had an article on the endless spells and They look good Okay, so you like the endless spells. I Mean, I think so like I we don't have all the rules so we don't know all the details to it Have you have Adam? Have you seen these yet? Not the new endless spells. Is it just like a big butter churn? Yeah, that would make sense that would be very on-brand for them But all the images sure it seems like one of them can be attacked Which I actually Like because it's clearly some kind of wall that can hold off a they can hold things off So I wish all the walls could be attacked That would be actually nice because then you could clear space like shoot them down Maybe is what I'm saying. Yeah, maybe I who knows we got snippets of incomplete rules right because we have also a bunch of Endless spells that like they become the model like they're associated with the unit So I think about like the arachnic Aldrin like it becomes part of the model Yeah, that's associated with or I think about like the balewind It becomes part of the model and so those rules may just be while it is part of the model minus this to attack Yeah, you're putting yourself in a little timeout triangle there. I get it Yeah, which like and what I suspect is is that it will truly be a timeout triangle here Here's the image where like you I don't think you're gonna be able to attack across it so there you go swirly swirly crystals a little timeout series of elf rune lightning and And you turn to stone which right the the ability is called turn to stone I cannot be the only person who immediately thought of electric light orchestra and started singing that song I can't be the only one right. I can't be Well, it's funny that you say that I was making it. Yeah, I wasn't I was thinking about how in Amongst the chaos dwarves the worshippers of hash it the sorcerer Kings as they would channel the magic associated Hashtag they would also often petrify and so the more powerful sorcerer Kings would eventually turn to statues And I was like man nailed it Back like there's the hash and heresy right there petrification of stuff around the mountain rune done So I mean obviously with with this with these endless spells the one that's like all this is dependent on points So who knows but the one that jumped out of me was obviously the twin stones if it ends up being like It's a perma plus one to cast is what it seems to be doing because you can always just choose to take one and reset it to one But then if you're just casting a lot, which this army clearly seems to have the capability to do like if If checklist is near there or whatever, right? He can shoot the number way up and then have another caster just power anything you want through and you can be getting You know five spells around out on 10s 11s Whatever something like that since we got it confirmed in the white dwarf article that we know checklist can cast can just Autocast four spells around on a 10 Well, so we reported back in February that tech was just gonna have a variable mechanic where he autocast four spells on 10 or three spells on 11 or two unstoppable spells sure And What we have now gotten with this battle report that's leaked out in the new white dwarf is that we know for sure that he Cast four on 10 so I would assume the rest of that rumor was true Which is he'll have this variable level that he can tinker with Which I don't know if that's good for the meta or not like I haven't been able to like when I think about the inch when I think about Nagash when I think about Seraphon like it's a really interesting like you have an entire suite of hyper strong casters That have their own ability to basically say no or say yes to their own spells and push them through no matter How strong their opponent is magically? Really Well, there's one of two worlds either it goes affinity and it's bad as I said this in a chat Well, either it goes affinity and it's bad because everything either becomes super magic or anti magic And that's a terrible meta or it go or we get the The mr. Burns effect as we all know from where they all try to all the diseases are trying to rush through the door once And they none of them can actually get through and basically they all just counter each other out And none of it really matters and life continues on which is also fully possible who knows Yeah, I'm will tell Anyways, so here's the new elf endless spells from that same battle report what it seemed like is that we don't have any elf terrain Yay Let me ask you a question. I want to go to Adam on this one because we have we didn't have an edge on the show How do you feel about the like army specific terrain? You mean like visually or like having it, you know, like using it in your army or something along those lines Yes, so like, you know, corn gets a little blood temple and less eater courts have this little bone thrown and Dwarfs have their pizza oven pizza oven. Yep, exactly And then the lizard men brought a temple that they don't actually get to set up in or put near them It just kind of shows up on the table and so on and so forth, right? How much do you care if something you were looking at had that kind of terrain? I mean if it's a cool-looking piece of terrain For me, that's Honestly, that's kind of important You know looking at these endless spells. I Wouldn't run any of them could well the the swoopy one that's got the two stones is sort of cool-looking But that weird lightning fence that's Yeah, I just I wish I I love games workshop, I wish they would stop trying to make lightning like you know what I mean Lightning and smoke Yeah, we could cut that out that would be great I can imagine that so I don't know I I like I like a lot of the terrain that they've made for ages sigmar. I I mean And the new war cry stuff. I really really really like but I I don't I've never Decided yes, I'm gonna make sure I have this specific piece of terrain because it works with my army But then again, I have a tendency to play a lot of soup So it doesn't you know, I'm not looking for that extra edge. I guess I don't know Yeah, sure for me It's like I like them if I feel like I could just take them and put them on a table anywhere and they would make sense That's actually why I didn't mind picking up the seraphon one because it's just a big pyramid And I just have it out on my table as like a piece of terrain. It is like it plays and doesn't matter if I'm playing Seraphon, it's just a cool piece of terrain to sit on the table like cool a big Aztec pyramid. That's a neat thing Yeah, I mean like the big Worst cry Citadel and all that kind of stuff like that's that's a gorgeous piece. That's a centerpiece really, you know And so that's really cool. You build a table kind of around something like that, right? But I literally almost I can't think of a time that I've ever bothered with the The actual rules that they that they say this is the rules for this particular piece of terrain You know what I mean the only one I ever use and even we even modified now The current rules anymore is the two arcane the realm gates the teleporting gates Yeah, yeah, we'll put two of those on the table so that people can teleport around and it's fun wacky times Absolutely love teleporting troops. That's just fun. Yeah, the only thing I've ever used the rules I've got those as well and they're all painted up and I had a lot of fun making the all the well again There was this weird sort of drippy lightning stuff going on, but I airbrushed the heck out of it to be super Super super neon bright green and it kind of worked out pretty well And I do like that kind of like, you know, Miss Pac-Man you like you go off this side and then you come out on that side But yeah, a lot of the other stuff I mean even like in normal games when I don't you know when you like roll for each piece like oh This is arcane and this is cursed and all that kind of stuff. We've almost never do that for the people that I play with I don't know. I just there's a lot of rules It seems in games as I get older that I have a tendency to go. Yeah, we're just gonna skip that You know, I'm just not gonna bother, you know, so sure and nothing wrong with that. That's actually one of the things I like I'm a big fan of that in design like you should keep your the core of actually like your game plays fine With just this amount of rules one of the things I like about a OS you can like shelve so much stuff from AOS and not need it You'd be like now. We don't worry about realms and this kind of stuff or any of this realm crap We're not gonna worry about this terrain crap and like the game still runs fine It's still perfectly functional like the core is solid I feel like any kind of game where they're like, okay Well, you have to roll to see what the weather is like well like sure it's kind of equal Oh, now everybody has minus one. Well, if everybody has minus one then nobody has minus one You know what I mean like that? Why did we do that exactly like if there was a situation We're like, okay Well, no, it's snowing and my army is mostly yet ease will then hey I lucked into getting a bonus, but that seems almost unfair at that point. So yeah, I just I've never understood that kind of stuff, right? And there are some of that like the realm effects of like Limiting range to 12 inches really good for melee armies really bad for range, right? Exactly. Um, so now It used to be the case back in more time. It was the same thing because you could roll for Speaking of since since the sense we're gonna talk about war cry and skirmish games I remember you could roll for those kinds of effects in more time as well And like whenever you were playing a night game or something It was just terrible if you were if you were playing one of the ranged armies Your range was limited to just almost nothing. Yeah You were just getting stopped you were just hoping dawn broke like in the second or third round or you were dead What was that? I forget what the rule was in 40k where you would roll to see if it was dark or whatever night fighting or whatever, right? Something like that. Yeah, so you'd have like for like the first couple of turns you'd be like, all right Well, I guess we're just not doing anything because nobody can shoot anybody Guess we'll just wait until it gets light out and we can see each other because we don't have you know night vision optics Obviously here in the 41st millennium, right? Yeah, so there's that. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I agree so and the spells they're okay. I like the swirly twirly crystals I think they look cool. They they look like a thing out of elf of the three I think yeah, yeah, they look like the thing that he would talk about like he passed through the swirly twirly gumdrop forest and then he went through the Washington Tunnel and that's or whatever and that's a Candle and yeah, exactly. That's what it looks like probably just the way they painted it because it's full It's like bright pink and purple colors or whatever swirling around each other like it rolled out of Willy Wonka's chocolate factory So are they as GW gonna release a glitter paint or do they expect that we use our own? I think we have to use our own Yeah, but on the bright side you can just you could sometimes just mix a little glitter in you know to any of your paints and turn them into glitter paints That's a hobby cheating video Making your minis fabulous Look for that one coming soon All right, what else we got other so with that other leaked information. We got a bunch of luminous stuff that dropped From the white dwarf It looks like we're not getting any new miniatures Like there's no range We have seen the range. We have truly seen it. They're not adding other stuff and if you doubted this just check out the and obviously this is appropriate given that What we're talking about today, they also released the war cry Stats in the new white dwarf. So we know So we know what is gonna be there and what's interesting about this is kind of two-fold the first is that Heroes are like baked into this list Huh, like because like the calf cock The one chick. Yeah, and the stone mage Like they're heroes are they here for like and they're commanders too. Yeah, so they're same Yeah, yeah, so they're definitely commanders and I have the list of abilities somewhere else and it's really long too It's not like the standard like vibrant abilities. It's like ten abilities. It's really fascinating And so the other thing that was interesting about this is that the cards aren't war cry normal Yeah, they're in a very odd format. Yeah Right. And so like if I wanted to like scan and print these out like they're not gonna be on the normal the same like Dimensions of normal cards. Well, this this is the format that they put in like Mercenaries and right whatever like yeah, it's a different. It's not the card format. You're right. It's the book format Yeah, so maybe the cards when they sell a book or as the deck of cards that they sell a deck of cards for The new elves then they will be in the standard format. I would assume I would hope One can only hope What I will say some interesting things about it is that we have a Helmless Stone guard like this looks like captain of it. Yeah, and we have a Helmless option that was here That was exciting. So we don't have any of those big bull horn ones And you can see some of the different unit captains and stuff like that kind of mixed in so Yeah, it'll be interesting to see kind of what we also got the points. Sorry. I'm jumping around We know that Teclis is 660 points And we know like I don't have the point sheet here, but we got we learned a bunch of Point stuff with these guys. Yeah, so it's been an interesting set of leaks with the new white dwarf Yeah, it'll see it'll be interesting to see what happens somebody asked what in the comments What are all the Lumineff units? Let me see if I can do it off top of my head So the dawn riders the horsey boys the archers The spearmen slash sword people right because they so they're yeah, the the stone guard Tech and they're armed with either stone mallets or pigs or diamond pick hammers Yep The the little the girl with the little bowl with the face mask the stone mage The two versions of the big giant cowl monster I said Teclis and then the light of El Tharian. Did I miss anybody? I don't think so. It's an it's worth noting that the ones with the mallets have toughness five. Yeah. Yeah, yeah in here Which is generally You mean they're sorry, right? Yeah, they're still toughness for they're still toughness for no Which is higher than the average elf like if you look at yeah a lot of these guys who don't have shields They're only toughness three, which is what we would expect so and the stone guard aren't wielding shields No, they're using hammer. Yeah, so they are clearly going to be tougher And they are at 12 wounds instead of the eight standard that we see with a lot of these Which could point to the possibility of them being two wound models because we know From the white wharf, we know that they are going to be five models for a hundred points And so the question is is that will the stone guard be five wounds for a hundred points? Sure? Or will it be our first two wound regular elves Break a new ground here if that's the case how have elves gotten so tough. What is the world coming to truly? How will the forces of chaos? That's right Exactly lots of cows equal lots of milk strong bones. There you go. See it's just done. That's simple math right there Everybody knows that So lots of lots of information about About Lumineth Yeah, I'm I'm kind of excited. I mean I want to see the rest of the rules obviously first Now we just wait to hope that maybe they go on pre-order this next weekend. We'll see Not sorry not prior to this next weekend that we get the announcement of the pre-order this next weekend is what I'm saying So that like this Sunday we get the announcement and then that would mean the next Saturday is when they would go on Pre-order, so I think that's what we're all hoping We'll see you do you think that they're gonna have Have to stretch this out because of the whole virus thing a little bit to as far as shipping and stuff like that global shipping and all that kind of jazz I mean, I know that they've opened up the web store again to some degree But it's a good question I Don't know is the answer because a lot of the like all of the elvish the the elf stuff and the giant stuff We know was already mostly like It was done it was it was like it was factory done and Into the like middle store warehouse the storehouse or whatever So then the question becomes well like let's say you can order it directly from the website We know they'll open up Luminath with that big special box Right and it was implied it was implied There was gonna be a distribution gap between the box and the rest of the line, right? So my guess is they'll launch it with just that one box and we should all expect long ship times on it Right like expected to take a couple weeks to get there make sense So and then that'll buy them the time to actually like in their heads And I'm sure they're hoping like and then we can sort of if they trotted out two three weeks So now we're into late June before the rest of the army gets released But everybody who wanted it still has their little special box. They got their book They got units they can be painting. You know, they feel good That gives them time in the interim to catch back up is I would assume what they're hoping But they've got like two boxes cooking right now way to go out between that big Luminath box and engine war Yeah, right the Adeptus Mechanicus Box, yeah, whatever that is. So I'm so this is pure speculation. So we know on the 23rd that we have We know in the 23rd that we have a Like an announcement thing, right? We know that we have like a June for the 23rd. We're doing something right. Yeah, so we'll probably another preview show on the 23rd I'm predicting that we'll have pre-orders go live the following week. So on the 29th And then which would arguably like shipping then would either happen on the 5th Or if they say it'll start shipping within the next two weeks It'd be between the 5th and the 12th of June is when I would be what I would I if I were to guess from a logistic standpoint When those things start moving, that's probably The that those are the dates that I would look for it makes sense So yeah, all right. Well time will tell see what happens Yeah, it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting Um And it you better get your pre-orders in because that box is gonna move quick. I'm a woman has box and Then we had Sorry the Old World Article, mm-hmm. You're laughing because in the in the in the notes. I just wrote Old World Coal and dub airs and that's all I wrote. Yeah, you did Yeah, so we have kids love ice cavalry. Yep, they're bears cool, they remind me of Back when I was a younger man and I used to go to bars a lot. There was this special piece of Like Marketing stuff, you know, like it got signs and all kinds of stuff like that in bars. There used to be this big light up sign for Rumpel mints, which was a very Mint or whatever type of schnapps and it had like this Warrior woman astride a giant bear and she was wearing Like one of those, you know, it's like armor bra not a hell of a lot else kind of a situation I always thought I would think that she would be cold because it was wintery, you know and stuff like that But that bear when I saw that that that the kind of pencil drawing sort of, you know thing I was like, oh, yeah, that's that's what that's exactly where my mind back went to put it back to you Yep. Yeah, absolutely. That's very funny. I remember that exact thing you're talking about I grew up my my father owned a restaurant a bar and I grew up, you know around there And I remember that exact thing you're talking about Alright, so yeah, I mean, it's I don't know what to say about it. It's still years away. It was bear is cool bear Cavalry's cool. You know what I'm gonna laugh about is If the old world is 15 millimeter It's entirely possible that it could be a different type of game or anything like that I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything. I would just I Would just read a thing and go that's some neat art and we all continue along on mr. Toad's wild ride here What if it was 54 millimeter sure and quiz it or two? Yeah, it's gonna work But still full army scale Table driveways they're called driveways Yeah Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting. I I still don't know a thing about the old world I'll be reading the articles and and when stuff happens, I'll check that out too. Yeah, awesome. I'm either negative or positive. I am neutral Cautious Right, right, right. I'm in a very similar position. Like I'm like, well, I'm open to it. Like we can see I'm not rebasing anything So if like if it is the same scale in the same stuff Like if it's just creating a home for all of our old models plus new releases I'm like, you know, if this is where legends, you know, like the end game of legends is like we're back to square bases with all these models um Yeah, I'm gonna be pretty mixed. We could honestly do what um a song of fire nice No, well, yeah that too, but I was also going to say uh conquest the last argument of kings Like that game is also a rank and flank style game But the models come on round bases and they go into little oops the little rectangle And then the the thing I think is interesting with conquest is that they're now coming out with the skirmish games Where you just take those same models out of the square things and there you go That would be a smart idea honestly on on gw's part if they were going to go down that road I think it might be a bad idea Yeah, I I have no idea why I mean Yeah, it's I don't want to get into too deep of speculation Who knows it could be anything it could be a boat. I don't know so I as I said cautiously neutral as cool. I I like bears. I always like kiss live So cool good stuff there Excited you you have my attention. Um Speaking of attention, uh, something else dropped this week Soulbound dropped this week. Yeah soulbound the a os rpg came out Uh, which is uh, I spent a lot of time cracking into that As consumed vents is what is what we might say That's sucked down that rabbit hole real hard uh I got the book on thursday and then proceeded to Grind it for the next day Decide that I didn't like the existing character sheet and all the math So then I spent the next day writing my own excel based auto calculating character sheet Shared it out there somebody enriched it and then on the for the since then I've also been doing some additional work Adding in some some new stuff. So down in the description of this video This will be my pick of the week. So I'll just transition right here. So I think this is our last news item Yeah, uh Down in the description of this video You will find a link to the updated character sheet Uh, it it auto flows all the calculations for you. It's locked So if you download just the excel file, like don't use it in dropbox Or I don't think the the locking works and you can screw up calculations If you download the file I've protected the sheet and you can only select the cells where you're supposed to enter information Everything auto flows and calculates. You can choose your talents. You can choose your spells and if you're interested I also and you feel like you want to get a little crazy if you want to get nuts Uh, I added rules in for species rules of my own design for our of our design of our design Yes, tom and I got together and cracked out species rules for more or less everybody so scaven and oryx and gits and Uh, all that kind of stuff ogres So if you're wanting to play other races, we made up a new species rule for all of them Malignance malignance. Yes. If you want to play ghosty boys That's the one i'm very curious about and I find people will often probably not allow people to play But you'll have to tell me whether or not you think we got malignance, right? We had a lot of conversation about playing ghosty boys Uh, and what are the appropriate restrictions on playing a ghost? um And uh, I also added in two new spell lords those took a lot longer to write So I wrote in the the lore for Uh, scaven And I wrote in the lore for gloom spike gits Uh, using their own system by the way, they have a sort of mathematical system, which you can like Roughly use it's not perfect if you're kind of wanting unusual effects But uh, I tried to hue as close to you know Like I followed their formula and then kind of did my own judgment from there I will tell you I erred on the side of making the casting value More difficult if it was kind of in the middle Yeah, that makes sense. So I always erred up So if those spells are a little harder to cast for the scaven or whatever Yep, sorry, that's because I made them and I'm not official. So I'm not the one who's gonna like Uh, sit there you're gonna make them more difficult. Yeah, I don't want to make cheap house spells that are that are just like Oh, this is the broken stuff, right? I tried to make it all very balanced. So at any rate, it's all there You can use that new stuff or not But um Yeah, there you go It's all there. So it's down in the description. Check it out Uh, cool. Yeah Adam, you've been have you checked out any did you look at like wrath and glory at all or have you looked at the new soulbound RPG at all? Um, not particularly. I'm not a huge RPG guy I looked a tiny bit at wrath and glory when it first came out by the first company that was handling it Right before cubicle seven. Yeah the scene or something like that. I think And I I think I was it was I think it was gen con a couple years back I was kind of staying and then we're both looking to the book and it was a lovely book and everything but I uh Yeah, I I haven't really looked too into it and I did see when cubicle seven was a taking that game over and also Doing soulbound. I thought that was a probably a pretty good um Pretty good fit. I think on that part. Um, just from the what I know of cubicle seven Um, but yeah, I don't know a ton about the actual RPG itself in either situation. Gotcha Yeah, it's cool. I I like it. So, uh, we'll do a show on it sometime soon. So there you go That's all I have to say about that So if you want help if you want an easy tool to build characters with You can just plug your numbers in and go from there and everything you can select I will tell you by the by obviously, I'll be very clear about something you still need to purchase the game product Okay, yes, because the character sheet does not actually give you all the rules It gives you like the selection like here's the spell and it gives you the high level stuff of that But you have no idea what that spell does unless you own the book and can go look at the spell Right, it just has like basic numbers Think of it like you still have to You still have to go buy the product We encourage you to do so Yes, it's just like war scroll builder is basically what I was trying to make right or or anything like that where You can get war scroll builder and you can build your army But unless you have the book or the cards or the scroll or something You don't know what anything does right because it's just like it's just a thing with some points and a few numbers So there you go Okay, cool Don't want cubicle seven hunting me down thinking i'm giving away all their rules for free. I'm most certainly not All right Cool, I've had I've had I've already gone down this road before trying to avoid any future cease and desist letters uh, all right, so Pick of the week adam, what would you like to share? um well, I would uh I think probably and it's not exactly age of sigmar related per se perfectly fine It is uh, it is definitely for folks who do kind of uh, who are into kit bashing and who do like the We we mentioned um Inquisitor a little bit earlier when we're talking about uh, uh, 50 54 millimeter scale there's a lot of um people out there who are getting into kit bashing and It's kind of called like inquisimunda or inquisimunda 28 or in that kind of thing and there's not a rule set per se that like kind of a lot of people um Agree on and and that kind of stuff these people use this group There's people, you know, it's all that kind of stuff and um A guy from the uk named nick, uh made a game called planet 28 Which is a very simple 16 page pdf that is a simple skirmish kind of style game for Using your inquisimunda style, you know 28 miniatures and it is uh, it's you make your own characters. There's no Classes, there's no army lists. It's very narrative But you still have points, you know, so you can have two equal forces But you it's also designed to be very narrative and but not so crazy storyline, you know, like Like inquisimunda what are the original inquisitor you were technically supposed to have a gm when you played that game You know, there was supposed to be a game master, which is in a lot of situations different Um, but it's and it's a it's a cool little uh pdf you can get for I mean, you know It's one of those things you get from like Drive-through rpg or war games downloads or one of those places Wargames fault, I think Um, but it's one of those where you like you pay what you want I mean you can download it for free, but you could also give him a couple of bucks and everything like that And it's like I love also. It's like it's all black and white. It's kind of old school He did all the artwork the artwork reminds me a ton of like old Um gw, you know, like rogue trader style kind of stuff little illustrations even a little bit of like old d&d and so I think my my next battle report actually because he's also now released Add-on rules for it that are for solo play And so I can't still yet have really people too much into the studio So on my next battle report is going to be done as a solo game using that. Um, so yeah, it's called planet 28. Um And it's it's a lot of fun. I really like it Nice, that's awesome. That's super cool. Uh, I Like the and the inquisition 28 does have like an aos equivalent to like aos 28 Yes, so like that whole movement is pretty awesome Like just the kitbashes that come out of there out of that whole movement are Mine boggling. Yeah. No. Yeah, like if I'm sure you guys have seen 28 magazine Yes Yeah, I mean like the stuff in that is is like that's what kind of really got me interested in it And that's what like I found a copy of inquisitor at my local game shop Actually that had been sitting on the shelf since 2002 And uh, and so I picked that up because I'm like, I don't I'm never gonna play it But I definitely want to look through it and send you all that kind of stuff and everything and so yeah, it's gotten me interested I've done now four different war bands that have all been kit bashed mostly necromunda stuff and Admac and jeans do their cults with different head swaps from different companies and all kinds of junk like that But I've been really enjoying all that stuff. Nice. Nice. Uh, well, certainly the solo play element of it is uh, Uh, a popular design element in these times. So yes Absolutely Tom, what about you? Which pick? I am going to uh pick, uh, honest gamer honest war gamer rob simes under the show He they did a lumeneth Um breakdown of all the lumeneth news. We kind of blew through it pretty quickly They spent two hours on it. Um, and so I would encourage you to check it out if you're interested in all things lumeneth Nice very good. Yeah Uh, well that explains why we did why we spent the amount of time we did on it He already covered it all, you know, you can only try out the same ground. So there you go Yep, makes sense. All right gentlemen. Let's talk about some hobby time. So Uh, Adam, what are you even working on? I know part of it because I got photos. Would you like me to bring those up? Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um I well, like I said, I've been doing a lot of um these war bands for uh, for both uh, Planet 28 and a couple of little kind of different indie skirmish games that I like um, and I've been doing a lot of um Enamel washes have been using ak interactive streaking grime and really loving it. I The the issue I'm finding honestly at this point is I don't want to Be the guy who only uses that one technique. You know, I can definitely see myself going down that road So the next couple of things that I paint model wise. I have to try not to use it But it's just so like you just you just completely hamfist very simple paint job And then airbrush the hell out of it with um ak interactive So you can grind let it sit for like three minutes kind of clean out your airbrush a little bit while you're waiting And then just take an old piece of t-shirt and just start wiping it away And I just it's it looks so amazing so quickly that it I just I don't know. There's something about it I just really like so I mean, it doesn't work for everything It's not gonna probably work for your lumineff because they should look, you know clean Generally, but when you're trying to make like grungy sort of necromunda, you know Kind of style weird gangers and stuff like that it works out so well But then with I'm starting to get more into This game into war cry. So I attacked the terrain I built it all like last week and then Sometime early last week. I primed a good portion of it. I primed the rest of the stone stuff on Thursday Wednesday or Thursday made a video about it talked about priming outside and and all that kind of stuff Since then I've painted up Pretty much all the stone stuff here And I just need to go back in and just do a couple of touch-ups here and there and then the wood stuff is all I didn't take any pictures of that but the wooden stuff, you know, like the pointy Yeah, the spikes and stuff the spikes and the barricades and all that jazz that stuff is probably At least half done if not three quarters. So I call that basing material Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is it's it's uh, it's It is kind of crazy like that stuff, but um, uh, It's so pointy, you know what I mean? There's so many times I've been like, oh You know, yeah, but it it looks cool. I mean, I like the stone stuff better. Yeah hands down Really? Yeah. Oh man. I love the wood pieces that they had like on there Like I use contrast for the wood like all the other stuff I use all my normal techniques But I wanted to really like lean the contrast so I use the contrast for the wood and actually like Between that and then like some dry rushing and like an a black oil wash Like it it finished it beautifully the white part on the stone bits I like these parts don't get me wrong, but and I did and I did the exact same thing. I used. Um, uh, either what I either used to the gore Whatever, uh, the gore grunta or the wild wood. I use one of the two and um, yeah I've been really loving um contrast for terrain. Honestly. It's uh, yeah Yeah Yeah, it's just the spiky wood bits like I like the wood out here and you can build that and there's lots nice elements That go on the the walls. Yeah, absolutely up on screen right now Uh, I'll go ahead and minimize that and we'll go back to everybody's face, but uh, but like the extra barricades and stuff I'm just yeah. No, I'm good. I I honestly just put them all in a big bag and I cut them up and use them as as uh As basing bits. Yeah, just like trees or fallen rock or lumber or you know Little little cool spikes on bigger bases or just little interesting elements I used a bunch on my serif on because like, oh cool wooden spikes With like skulls put into them. That seems like what crazy jungle lizards would would do right that's like that So, yeah, yeah I just I don't know what I'm going to get out of that being on the table Right. Yeah, I mean I'm I followed I went online and watched a couple of videos From people about like how to build the terrain so that it Best matches the cards and all that kind of stuff. Yeah Because you know, there's so many different ways you if you followed the instructions all of a sudden you're like Well, now I've painted myself into a hole. So, you know Yeah, I follow that stuff and everything so I guess I in this situation. I sort of wanted to follow the rules a little bit more and um At least to start and then see where it goes from there. So yeah, but um, I don't know I I you know, there's been a lot of terrain that that they've put out that's been great There's been some pieces that have been kind of sketchy, you know, like you fiddling fiddling archway is still not great All-time sketchiness. Yeah. Yeah, but um, well, they also made a years ago for 40k. They made this like crashed Like I don't know what it was it was it was supposed to be like Not the uh, Aquila lander or whatever But it was some other piece that was supposed to be like a crashed ship and they showed it off and people were like Wow, that's awesome and then when it showed up it was just completely soft Like there was no detail to it. It looked like it had been vacuum formed over the original design It was just really bad. Um, but otherwise like I've liked everything I've made and these, you know, were fun to build So, yeah, I still have the really old one. It shows up on my table sometimes I remember like the crashed hollowed out rhino bunker There was like half a rhino and then the sandbag bunker built around it. Yeah Yeah, I still that still frequently makes an appearance on my table had that thing for like God 20 plus years now. So, yeah Uh, all right, Tommy. What about you man? Your hobby table is clean. What are you working on? Uh, nothing Like I just completely stalled out and so Uh part of like there's like the color explosion that was my gifts was great, but like it's just Doing all the processes on the loon shrine like literally almost drove me insane Like it was just because I free-handed every mushroom and there's like 117 mushrooms or something like that on the actual loon shrine and so I'm literally down to like Just the cages like the hanging cages and the really tiny mushrooms there. That's it. Everything else is done Uh, you gotta settle in my dude I like I I just can't do it like I'm like I'm trying and so like I went and cleaned everything And like got everything prepped and I have a bunch of stuff that I need to like work on on Like yeah, I'm I'll get there No, that explains the cleaning Now everything comes together now. We've got the final piece of the puzzle We were this is what we call procrastination cleaning Of I know I should be hobbying But instead I'll clean up stuff. Yes I don't know what you're talking about It does not ever I've literally never had that situation. I don't think well, you might be immune to this particular strain of Of hobby whatever but uh but uh This is something I've seen many people do where they'll be like, hi I suppose I could work on that thing. Yeah, just yeah, just I'll just clean up or something instead You know, this this thing looks messy over here. Let me just organize some bits I'll just I know, you know, I've been needing to clip these bits for a while. Let me just get that done You know, whatever any excuse like that Uh, yes Uh for myself you mentioned necromunda earlier Necromunda continues to be the gift that keeps on giving I myself put together a Battle mage out of the necromunda girl and like an old elvish. I think that's an elf arm That's what that probably is And uh the head from one of my sisters of silence, I think so that's my battle mage for my whirlwinds Uh I army and then I'm also working on my knight as zeros, which I'm using the that special character Girl that uh, there was the store exclusive. I think this is the one that you gave me tom. All right I'm using her plus st. Celestine's wings and then like a random lantern bit. I found and A power sword from 40k, which seems absolutely appropriate. So Yeah, there you go. Now, so that's going to be my knight is zeros and she's almost done She just needs to get like all the metals and stuff done. So The the necromunda kits. I mean I I I should actually sit down sometime and actually try to play necromunda. Maybe but I think I own all of the kits that they've put out for it I mean like I've got and I think I've got two boxes of vans are because I use those models all the time But yeah, like the majority those warbands that I've been building like recently Have been, you know or lock k door or kador or whatever cod or all those different, you know groups and And mixing that stuff together with stuff from jeans to their cults and you got those those those boxes are just awesome Well, that's just it. They work perfectly for anything. They're great for for all the games You're mentioning where you're kit bashing your own stuff. They're good for 40k. They're obviously good for necromunda They're great for aos because so many of them so many of those gangs look super low tech Like yeah, some of them are kind of out of the picture But like a bunch of them look like they would want I'm not gonna No, I've seen people use even like the palantine enforcers or whatever and had them look really cool because they just look like armor dudes But a lot of stuff was that the cod or guys the cod or guys look medieval almost to me You know, I mean, yeah, yes, you just gotta swap out and give them some swords instead of guns. Yep, exactly Uh, so I mean it's it's such an amazing set of kits For conversions for anything and most of them tend to be you can usually like swap the pieces you need to as well Like a lot of them are pretty fluid like it's easy to do a head swap It's easy to switch arms around like that kind of stuff even though some of the bodies build a little weird But uh for the most part the arms and heads are pretty interchangeable. So that's cool So there you go, uh, all right cool. Well gentlemen, shall we talk about some war cry? Sounds great. All right, so adam I want to start with you over here. You've been getting into the war cry lately So at a like high level, what's your experience with the game? What do you like about it? What do you what do you think of its nature as a gateway game? I know that's something you're talking you talk about a lot Uh, you know, like what do you think of its nature? Is that that kind of thing? Just give us sort of that your overview your feelings on it right now I think that when I went first was released and I started reading through the rules and I started watching some Battle reports and things like that. I thought to myself Initially, I thought this is really like a simple kind of game and I'm a little concerned about that But it's again, it's kind of like when age of sigmar first came out and people were like well this game It's only four pages rules now. That's not even a thing. You can't do that and then started to understand where a lot of the Strategy comes more from placement and location and things that you yet necessarily put in the rules like they're there But you know what I mean? So I started to see that and also I started to see as well that that game is designed to be more of a Obviously more of a campaign sort of a situation. So if each campaign game takes Two hours. Well, you're not going to get real far in the campaign, you know So that's that's a situation as well. But I am looking at it honestly as a kind of a gateway game I do want to like I said, I'm nearly finished with the terrain and then I've got my bird boys the corvus cabal. They are partially Built I was building them Not last time you and I got together at sam's but the time before that And then realized about halfway through that I screwed up all the bases because all of a sudden they made 28 millimeter bases in there That was a hoot. So I've got to fix that a little bit and then and then I'm going to do Iron golems because I think they're really cool looking the other guys that come in the box, which I think is the Untamed beasts. Yeah, those guys I'm going to wait a while on They're not bad, but I just I'm like I like I think that the iron golems are very interesting to me the bird guys are interesting to me and then I want to add I have the box I brought upstairs. Um, I want to add These folks the oh sure some ghosty boys that tom was praising that night hot box recently. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm also going to hopefully throw in a bunch of The maggot king of maggot king of nergal kind of a situation and I might even do some down the road do some Um Storm cast I I don't know and you guys may know this better. I've been hearing online that the normal ages sigmar armies are Way more powerful than the standard war cry armies Is there any truth to that? I don't I mean In my experience. So I was my one of my regular opponents plays the corvus cabal. Okay and What I've noticed is that a lot of the regular armies quote-unquote like, you know existing armies like the non special chaos factions Often's like spike a lot higher They can build more sort of elite forces of bigger troops and stuff like that Because you know, you look at like the iron golems. They've got like one big sort of bruiser or whatever But there are a lot of armies where they have much more of a mix of like very low value cheap troops and very high Power bruisers and you can kind of mix more like that So like that is a level of versatility That not necessarily all of the chaos warbands have But I don't know that like I would necessarily say They're like across the board Worse, I don't know if that's true. Okay Look how I would frame it is that I think that the I think that the classic armies in most instances Can specialize their forces better And what I mean by that is like if you look at Like and I think vince was kind of getting at this like you can have a number of centerpiece models Like I could run a scaven warband with two storm fiends, which you're just going to wreck shop And then a bunch of small stuff and so I still have bodies. I still have mobility I still have objective grabbing But I also have I have two pieces that can literally just go hog wild Right and go head to head with anything in the game. Um, if you choose uh cipher lords You just don't have that you don't have these big centerpiece bruisers That so that's the challenge What I would argue is that Depending on if you get into the narrative stuff where you can bring in some heroes that can resolve some of it But in general, like that's that's where the disparity is going to be is on those high like having curnoff hunters on the table Right, you know are having these kind of like 200 the The numbers normally around the 200 and 200 to 250 point models That's not a lot of those in the In the work the war cry chaos warband boxes. Yeah, I mean you can certainly Like I think that the honest answer is if you're going to build one of the regular Or I don't know what you want to call them The chaos specific, you know war cry specific. I don't know whatever we want to call them warbands, right? um That you got it you should get more than one box because that does help you a lot to cover that distance Like you try to take just like the stock team or something Yeah, and and run it against somebody who like well, I had my whole army to pick from Right, right and and you only had like the nine things that came in the box Well, yeah, often they'll be a power disparity, but I'm not sure that's that surprising, right? Like yeah, you you had a choice of 30 things and got to pick the best stuff I just use these nine now if I bought a couple boxes of Of iron golems or or whatever, you know pick your pick your thing there, right? You could you could have a much different situation on your hands, right? But now you're $150 into your warband, right? And that's that's the thing like as a It's a gateway game, you know and from what I understand it again. I'm not I'm not a um a blood bowl player But I've also heard plenty of times with blood bowl They're like well the box that they sell with a team is doesn't make a full team or doesn't make a good team Or doesn't you know what doesn't make a competitive team you got to buy two boxes and You know like that's also it becomes then Well, it becomes a difficult gateway if you're trying to make a gateway game that you can also Kind of wreck shop on a lot if you just want to have a good time and play some games Then it doesn't matter as much right But there are different types of people for different types of games And that's where I think that I get the feeling sometimes the way it's designed is like If you want to be competitive in this Kind of small skirmish game you need to buy more Stuff so that you can build your army a little bit differently The other issue though is then if you buy two boxes, let's say if iron golems or the corpus cabal Those models then Look very much alike when you start doubling up You know what I mean and then to me aesthetically that bothers me a little bit as well So you have to do some heavy conversion Like in order to really like let that go the full. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'll say is the my feeling on it is gateway is it's certainly like The big advantage is so because underworlds is the other one I was pointing to right as the gateway for aos like warhammer underworlds because the advantage there is you Buy the thing you get Yeah, and that's it. It's the thing you put together. This is what you play with they're you know push to fit They you don't even have to paint them, right? It's just there you go. So I'll agree. It's not that easy, but Flip side. Here's a here's an argument. I would make mm-hmm With underworlds other players you run into who maybe play aos like let's say you're getting into to Underworlds and you want to go find some games, right? You have to find other underworlds players and that's going to be like some restricted set of people, right? But you can tell anybody you can show up at the shop and anyone who has aos models now at this point Since they've released cards for basically every army You can be like, hey, I want to play some war cry Most people are going to know it exists and as long as you've got like cards or the book that has all the cards in it You can be like, you know here. Hey, you've got an army Just grab, you know 10 figs out of your army and we can play a game, right? And it is fast. So your pool of potential opponents. I think is a lot larger I feel like the war cry sits like if if you've got the the absolute starter person I would say that probably underworlds is what brings them into the yard a little bit more and war cry is a little bit further along that scale with The old world being on the end of that scale, I guess or whatever, you know, I mean, sure So yeah, but I yeah, I do agree. There is a definite like it's great That you can take your war bands from underworld and bring them into age of sigmar That's like a nice added, you know value add or whatever But you're right if you want to say, hey, why don't you play war cry with me? You've got a bunch of these guys these guys these guys these guys Those are all part of war cry bring them in and we'll play, you know, that's that's a cool feature as well, right Yeah, I mean what I would say is that on the flip side, I think that My experience has been with our kids at least that like Underworlds is a much bigger ask For them to master and understand Then war cry like I can sit down with my nine year olds and like I can pound out a game in 20 minutes of war cry 20 25 minutes a full game No questions because it's all numbers and dice and models Like the basic core rules are very simple. There's no reading There's no tactics of like when to play what cards understanding the entire deck. There's no depth building aspect And so it's interesting because I think underworlds draws into the into the orbit a certain type of player It brings in your x-wing players and in those types But I think war cry is actually tapping into a much arguably a much younger audience that can jump on and learn real quick That's true. I think the only issue is that they the buy-in for that younger audience is more difficult with war cry To some degree, like especially if they want to have terrain and all that other jazz If you want to get into underworlds It's what 70 bucks and you've got now two armies and the board and the dice and all that jazz So that's a benefit, but you know, you're right though it I would say war cry is It's potential I think it's an easier game to some degree just because there's not the card mechanic and all the combos and the deck building and all that stuff at our local shop the what that brought in to um That group was like you mentioned x-wing, but also just straight up magic players, right? Magic players that were like, hey, this is like, I don't have to paint these guys are already in colored plastic They're easy enough to push together and I've got this game that gives me my deck building You know itch and all that kind of stuff and it works out real nice. So Yeah, but I I do I think that my my I'm not gonna generally play competitively. So I'm not super concerned about that I just want to make sure I don't accidentally like give if I'm trying to teach somebody new give them The corvus cabal and then bring in, you know storm cast and accidentally squish them I mean Technically if the points match up, aren't they supposed to be the same amount of power? Isn't that how that's supposed to work? Sure. That's that's exactly how it always works every time in the perfect world Uh, I mean maybe is what I would say because I would say probably not but yeah, yeah Yeah, like the the one the one aside before we move on from underworld Like in the parallel there the one aside. I do want to point out is that actually Um, there's a really interesting like so what I found in trying to build a bunch of warbands You know for our family to play around with is that um underworlds actually becomes like a a a wonderful vehicle for warband building Uh, because like I bought the glooms fight box the glooms fight gets box, which is a bunch of hoppers It's a bunch of hoppers. It's a bunch of knights and so you can build them kind of any way you want Um, but I needed like gets on foot and I was like, well, I kind of want some I want I kind of want some actual like Squigs and like what do I need to do and so I was like looking at like, oh man I have to buy this box and that box and then I looked at it I was like or I can just buy an underworlds box and get everything that I need Because there's a smattering of like a bunch of the characters of the different stuff I have a netter. I have you know a prodder. I have some hoppers I have every like or not hoppers I have some normal squigs So I actually have that like a smattering a sampling of models now without having to invest $150 in boxes And so this really funny thing is that I have begun buying underworlds kits again To supply war cry war bands sure Because because they're just an easy source of a diversity of models without having to own like an entire like kits For those different armies Yeah makes sense All right, so you had mentioned one thing I want to drill in on okay So there's there's lots of individual stuff to cover here And obviously we're not going to go like every war band beat by beat is right We're to be here until next wednesday if we do that Uh, but I think there's some meta elements like I want to start in before in before we get into that Which is like the terrain so most of the games that I play just like my regular games of aos are multiplayer games So we don't I often most of my games aren't one-on-one. We're usually playing with at least three people sometimes four Okay, so we'll do the old take two Like if we play with four people we'll do the old take two boards and put them together Thing kind of you know just to have the space so we're not all like literally right on top of each other right away If we do three people we actually usually just stick with one board uh And I still like like with my terrain I built out a couple of pieces of my terrain to be taller like I went and added in extra bits to them So they were even taller than normal so you could fall from significant heights And actually get really injured and stuff like that and it does have a Noticable impact on the game because like you mentioned the corvus cabal, right? Where they have dudes who can you know want to get up high and want to leap down on people They have dudes who can like fly or any army that has people who can fly and sort of ignore that stuff You you had your knight haunt box and that's another member of my group plays has knight haunt So he places knight haunt when we when we do that and like when I'm running Yeah, whatever my iron jaws and we have a couple tall pieces on the board and they like they They go gets there like way up here on something that's like 10 inches high I'm like and you're like nope. I can't get there by the end of the game, right? I'm just like right. Yeah Hi Okay, bye, you know just like there's nothing I can do so it's actually makes it kind of it's sort of an interesting element to add that verticality So what kind of terrain have you been have you been using have you been liking adam? Like do you have you been using the standard terrain setups like do you flip a card and set that up or what do you do? Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm I'm I'm like playing like because I'm the relatively new sort of initial setup It's all about trying to play with the Like like I mentioned earlier I you know followed some tutorials and whatnot to make sure that I was building at the right way so that it was as modular as it could be and still follow the It was very interesting to me again like as I started like looking into this. I'm like so There's very specific diagrams on the cards of the way that the terrain should be But they really only show you how to build two of those stone buildings and then just figure out the ones on yourself Kind of and you're like, well, that's really kind of confusing So, you know and then also that you know, they're telling you well glue this part and at this part But then later on we're going to show it stuck to this thing So I'm like, yeah, it was it was interesting But if if you're thinking about getting into war cry I would definitely tell you to go out and look around a little bit and find out how to build that stuff to keep it more modular but I am definitely sticking with that style and And I at this point it's been basically just two-player games partially just because of you know, that's Me and my wife. So, uh, the quarantine and all that stuff. So there's that. Yeah Nice. Tom, what about you? How are you setting up terrain? We're flipping cards. Okay. Like literally so here's here's uh, Here's images of like how I So for us like obviously we have not finished that battle report because my son's nine and has an attention of a nine-year-old But for this like we just literally flip the cards lay stuff out and then run from there Gotcha. Um, and so like we are much like Adam I'm keeping it super like rigid and so we're doing this and I'm painting up the sole drain forest Which is the train box and I'll have like all the train from that and all that stuff painted And so we're just I'm using it as uh inspiration to just go and paint and prepare the stuff So like I want to I want to run that other train box And so I'm using that as the impetus to go and like spend the time Paint up all the train get it all beautiful and then now I we can roll that out with the new cards and the new stuff And everything that that rolls with it. And so I just love Like I love the simplicity and the ease like don't get me wrong I love building boards with more time and I certainly have the terrain to do it But I also recognize the types of games that Like the terrain itself is a balancing factor It's it's the same reason why like I would love to do like 24 by 24 Boards, right? Like or 48 by 48 like full boards But the fact is is that like you play on something like that iron jaws are moving at three inches per activation Even in a five turn game. They're not getting across the table without touring. Well, I mean Any iron jaws players certainly using their cards to but to punch their movement up or their dice to punch the movement up Like I take your meaning I take your meaning right and so like and so we So I've tried to stick to the actual core mechanics that have been presented Because I don't want to create a bunch of other like secondary tertiary consequences. Gotcha Um, and so yeah, we're flipping cards and playing the terrain right out of the box. So Clearly I have a problem with authority. I'm not listening to you cards. You don't know me You can't tell me what to do cards Yeah, because I just I just we just like generally when we sit around we'll just say, okay Let's put I'll I'll put one here and then somebody else will go like cool I want to have this thing here and then we we don't know who's taking what side like that's pre determining You know anything else and then we just use the rest of the cards because I do like the rest of it Like I love being able to determine scenario and stuff like that, right? And if it takes more players we just kind of and we we Uh, we have stuff that won't work for multiplayer. We'll just like Make it work. Usually like well, let's just add a third starting point because most of them have some kind of logic to it So you can say like all right, you'll be kind of here and then your second will be here and your third will be here or you know, whatever Uh, but there are obviously multiplayer scenarios in there too So, yeah, uh, I don't know. That's just just just how I roll. I guess we're rebel. That's what I'm saying We're rebel Uh, all right. So adam what war you you mentioned the war band you're looking into Uh, what is it about those war bands that that that made you want to collect them? Like what do you like about them? Well, I mean The the corvus cabal. I just think are great sculpts. I you know, and I I like crowed. So I don't know if that helps. I'm not sure um I think aesthetics is a huge part of this Yeah, well, there's yeah, because I got to be honest a lot of the other war cry bands I just don't know. No, thank you. I mean like Like that weird, uh, with the Unmade and the the weird With the weird face plate thing going on not the The cypher lords. Yeah It's just yeah, like it I mean and that's It's standard. It's the way that games workshop has been doing things for a long time where they They have people and they know this obviously at this point They have people who like certain types of aesthetics. So they just make both kinds So you've got your iron golems, which are basically like nearly corn almost But also a little bit space marini because they got big weird round helmets and chunks like that And then you've got like your unmade and and which are nearly lumineff almost except with a lot more flayed skin You know, but like otherwise it's that just the tall skinny sort of weird Long floating robes. Yeah, exactly all that stuff. Um, so they've got people who enjoy both of those different aesthetics You know, some people say I love this and I hate the other one and vice versa. So they just, you know, play to both Which is a smart move. Um You know car manufacturers do it a clothing manufacturer. Anyway, so For me, those two are interesting and then as far as the um, like I've always been a Rock bringer kind of maggot kin sort of fan Like I said earlier at the beginning of the show not a nurgling fan so much, but um, so I I get that models too. So I definitely want to just be able to use that and then with the night haunts I mean my plan and you and I've talked about this a little bit Vincent my plan is that uh, hopefully it, you know, uh, lockdown willing At the end of well, even like november or late october There's a a tournament that potentially sam and I will be uh, a teams at uh, will be a team And I would be bringing night haunts to that like a thousand points in night haunts So I see these night haunts as basically more like, um, not an additive to that But but more of like a test run as far as paint paint scheme and stuff like that And plus the models. I just love the night haunt models. I just there's I haven't That's the thing that's interesting to me is that when I look at the night haunts I can't think of a model that I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't run that because it's ugly You know, I mean like everything in that in that entire army um Like that black coach is scary to build. It's going to be a bear, but um, it's going to be amazing when it's done So, you know, yeah, it's a joy to paint. It was one of my my favorite paint experiences that I've ever had Like it was truly a joy to paint. It's going to change my life. I think just because it's going to be like such a big project I mean, it may change my I don't know my dna I don't know it's going to be like just looking at all the parts and looking at it and immediately My first thought was like, well, what if I had it so it was actually coming down hill and I built up a thing And then I'm like, uh, you know, I mean like that's so I yeah, I It's it's going to be a big one, but it's going to be probably uh That army is going to be a summer early fall project. So sure No, and it's funny because I think and tom I'm interested to get your take on like what the war bands have been playing And how your kids have chosen war bands too because I know you've been getting games and with your son As you mentioned for me the war bands I want to run I looked at like I literally would just flip through the cards And think what of these looks cool of the models I can use right when I say the cards I don't mean like the individual cards. I mean like the the army card right that has your abilities on one side The units on the other. Yeah, I would say like, okay Just looking at literally the thing with the least amount of information Which is the the side of the card that just literally says this is the available units For this army and it matches. Everybody knows what I'm talking about here Like the flip side of your of your dice activations. Is it this thing? Yes. Yes Exactly. I just look at that side and I go which one of these has the units. I think are cool, right? And that's been mostly I picked because I looked at like the goblins I was like, oh man, these guys are awesome. Look at all this cool stuff you could get in goblins Uh And then I would like and then I'm like, all right I like all these dudes and then I went and looked and I was like I looked at the cards I was like, yeah, okay. These seem like they're fun things. I really like goblins. I've got I like it when I can have both things like I like to have big dudes I like to have little dudes. I like variants of my stuff So like my favorite forces are like the gits Are scaven, you know anything where you can have like Some big dudes and little dudes. I like I like little weedy guys with like a couple big brothers following them around That's what I that's what I enjoy in my own personal aesthetic What I what I really love about The the maggotkin is that it's basically just Light lords, which I already have a bunch of and I have another box to build Uh, and then it's the big uh, the big flying, uh, You know bug dudes who I was like, I've always wanted to build them, but I'm like, I don't know Yeah, but now I'm definitely gonna so I'm really super excited about that So yeah, I like that this is the entire army. I think that's kind of cool for these guys Not everybody does that, you know, some of them have a whole bunch of these but the fact that these guys are basically just Literally two units. I think it's kind of cool. Yeah, and also like that is one of the biggest heaviest scariest units in the game is just far as like raw size and power goes the um, the the um, Not plague drones The blight lords plus thank you plus oil blight lords. Yes, the name just would not come to my the front of my brain Uh, like those dudes are crazy tough and huge for what they are Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that that thing flies like, uh, just as a quick aside I think we can all agree that flight is like a very as per always Flight is good in the normal game flight in war cry, especially if you're crazy like me with terrain But even without it flight is just so potent That's what it does. I won I won our first like recorded like pot like the thing we're gonna turn to a battle report Um, because I like I had a one against your son. Yes, you'd be down. Yeah You need to understand going into turn three like the end of turn two he had the game Sure It was it was the it was the game where you have three objectives And then you move remove one at the end of two Yeah But the end of one and then you move one at the end of two And then whatever one's left is whoever has it wins And the reality is is he got to pick first so we both claimed one the first the middle wasn't contested he grabbed it And so what ended up happening was he won the roll off So he got to remove mine and so going into turn two he had all the objectives and I was playing daughters of kane against uh against Iron jaws So like I have a bunch of like weak hits against toughness five stuff with like mountains of hit points Um, but the advantage was is that like it's because I had like two harpies And what I was able to do was like dump all of my attacks finally into the one Into his like brute that was carrying the one objective that was going to be remaining And then I double moved across it with a 12 inch move on a harpy So like 24 inches and literally just like swooped out grabbed it and then moved back behind my lines And so like flying such as such a big deal in this game Like high mobility flying is like it is kane Yeah, it makes the ghost army Like I said one of my regular opponents is knight hunt and god of the knight hunt scary and work right what I enjoy is How many armies play? They feel like little versions of the big army, but you get to use models you might like But that might not be very good in the big game, but they're like really fun here Do you think that that's a design choice? Do you think that they look at at at like the bigger games and they go Nobody ever buys this model because we screwed up the rules and or it doesn't fit in the meta or whatever It's not enough. It's it's not enough punch for how many points it is So then they go and they look at like the smaller game and they go Yeah, what if we make it so that it's better in this game? I mean it makes sense because there are people out there who are like I like this model, but I've run it now twice in a game and it's always hot garbage So I'm going to leave it home and then when you go. Oh look now it's cool in I don't know Kill team or something like that. I mean, I think there's definitely some sort of uh thing that they could do that way Which makes sense Yeah, I think when they I I don't know if it's like intentional like it's easy for people to fall into the trap If they're all sitting around going We will sell more boxes like I'm sure it's always in their goal that they want to make products people sell Oh, certainly. Yeah, but I think that I almost wanted for like throwing a bone sometimes Like we made this cool model. Nobody seems to run it because it's not effective So we'll make it more effective in this game and then that way at least those people will be like hey cool I can run this. I mean, I think it's almost an emergent property of like They know Right, they know what's sort of not being played or what's not being taken and stuff like that and so When they come back to it a second time I mean if you just go back to your design a second time and you get a second bite at the apple Of like when I get to design rules for this again in a new system, you're like, all right I'm not going to screw it up this time, right? It's just it's just the natural sort of evolution of like, uh Duffed at the first time It's the same as like if you're if you're playing golf and you play the same course You're going to try to screw up in the same place twice, right So yeah, you you want to talk about powerhouses like ko Oh sure like 52 different cards. Yeah, the most complicated war bands Yes. Yes, because like each like each rigor box spins out like eight different cards. Yeah, um, but The reality is is that uh Because of the flying from the end run like those guys the host little bastards like 200 250 point models with 12 inch fly like Like range attack all scary very high power range attacks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Oof But they even they're a little bit still they can they can actually have a still a couple They can use their regular arco dudes and still have like oh even that guy's got like a little nice shot on him And it's relatively cheap like it's not it's not giant rat cheap or anything But you know What that's another reason I left scaven is because you could take dumb giant rats that are like 35 points It's like the cheapest thing in the game. It's outrageous. How cheap that is Uh, but yeah, uh beast of cast another one. I didn't mention I've had a lot of fun with beasts actually because uh, I really love minotaurs like I've always loved Minotaurs, I think they're like the coolest element of that army and in the normal game minotaurs are kind of um What's the word I'm looking for? Suboptimal, let's call it. Okay But I actually really like them as my bruisers in war cry and then you can still supplement them with uh, You know little gore or ungore or stuff like that. You can have a little ungore shooters running around relatively cheap So I love swarming with the little dudes and then having the big giant guy with an axe just waiting to come in behind Uh, and it lets me use a lot of models in fun ways because normally my ungore when I play my beast of cast army are just like Guys standing around a stone waiting to be thrown in the pyre and killed. They don't actually do anything So I don't get to play with those fun models here. I actually get to play with them So yeah, like the standard beast man. I think I've just always loved the the faces You know what I mean? They just yeah face and I've got some I don't I've got a dozen or 14 of them painted up and just sort of thrown in my uh, my chaos soup aos army So every once in a while I just have them you stand there and wait for people to kill you and you will slow them down Maybe a turn and that's that's what I use them for but I just really enjoyed painting them So I would I do need to get the for for beasts of chaos. I do need to get the card Set or whatever so that I could play them that's another thing that I'm a little confused by is like So like they've got these little plastic or whatever these little foil things Like if you can't find these are you basically sol or how do you you know what I mean? The tome Uh, they were 19 Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. The tomah champions 2019. I thought I have a year but I can't buy I don't seem to print all of the cards. Yeah that book So this is actually got all the cards in it. Yep, kind of for for 2019 Sure, sure. So like all the stuff that dropped obviously in january of 2020 those new war bands aren't in there But everything like the night haunt and the gifts and all that are in the back The cards and their and their ability like their uh, allegiance card. Um, and so Uh, I suspect that that's how that they will they will manage war bands in the future Although let me point out that those are not in um Those are not in Like the like the banshee card that you got in your night haunt box Your night haunt work i box the banshee card that was specific to that doesn't show up at the tomah champions You still have have to have bought That like warp pry warband. So the piece of chaos are not in here because somewhere You might be able to find this still Because it launched in 2020 in january of 2020 and so hypothetically Next december for the toba champions 2020 because they put dates on that. I assume they're doing this every year um What that means is that I would assume all the new war bands that are in there will be included Now the real question is is will things like fire slayers which were specific to like so the fire slayers have never gotten cards Um fire slayers have only shown up in a white dwarf So the question is like how are they going to do fire slayers? Are they going to release cards? Eventually our cards going to get integrated into the um into the tomah champions. Who knows? The the cards are the thing honestly right now to some degree And the availability of the cards is the thing that bothers me the most of of war fry just because like Like my local shop sort of like didn't quite Order the original first kind of wave, you know, and so that really could Three waves now. I think is that right? Yeah one two at least three waves. Yeah I think there's been four actually But yes if they didn't order all of them That's rough right. Yeah so that's you know, and and and you can't just buy them from the um from the In my mind and again, this is probably I I'm not a business person particularly but At some point I would think that they would just I mean I don't know sell them as an e-book or do something, you know, sure I just yeah a little flip through app or something where you can just like sip sip through all the cards. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I mean I'll say I learned my lesson because when the first wave came out Which by the way that first wave everything from that is in the tomah champions And obviously the tome is awesome because it also the the tome did so much It restored what I actually wanted most out of the game, which was a more like For lack of a better way of calling it and this is like somewhat incorrect But it's still close enough to people I mean it restored a more Mordheim style campaign Where you could like grow and get weaker and get injured and you know, blah blah blah blah And like that's what I'm all about. I'm all about that kind of campaign play I mean I played more time for ever and ever and ever and ever and um So that first wave I didn't get everything and I missed out on exactly what you said like I was just like Oh, I was like, oh only order these I ordered like maybe half of them or something. I was like, oh probably these are the ones I probably would want and then they were gone like Just instantly bought every single one Yeah, and so from wave two and wave three. I was like nope not making that much just as soon as they came out I was like select all yes, please. Thank you because I mean in the end It's like all eight bucks for a pack of cards. I mean it wasn't it's not bad Eight to ten to twelve. I think maybe that the ko one might be that expensive because it's it comes in a box actually With it's it's got those things so that people can carry it kind of like the arc that come in. It's very heavy Absolutely yes, it has to get all healed in separately It's like it's actually somebody because it's ko and they're very mercantile actually uh Somebody shows up at your house with them in a briefcase that they they've handcuffed to their hand and you have to give them the secret code You have to read them the carrot code Uh, yeah, no, so like so I got all of them and I put mine in you two won't be able to see this But everybody at home will I have all mine in like a magic card binder Okay, so like all the cards are in the magic card type of you know standard nine slot card sleeves and then I found these um I found these special sleeves you can order that I think are for like Uh for photos for like four by six photos or something Okay, like for you know like photo albums that you're yeah, you're four by six or five by seven I'm not sure which yeah Yeah, so you can get like these four by six photo album pages that only have like two per page Two slots per page and so I just use those at the front of every section So then like that opened that separates all the actual cards Uh for me and I found that to be like super convenient because I can split them like oh, okay There's one side of the page is there dice and one side of the page is the cards Awesome. Good. I have a shoe box Hi, yeah Well, and I did deck boxes like little sliding hard deck boxes um that I uh that I have all of mine in and then the uh Obviously all of the army cards all the english ones. I've preserved those everything else has went into storage Um, I uh and then I just have the stack so It works. All right. All right So I've got a question for you gentlemen. Here's my question Have you looked at something in war cry and Got either figures you thought you would not ever buy or got into a you know like has have you you understand I'm saying has war cry lured you into figs You would have previously thought no, I'm not going to really be about that But then when you saw them in war cry either because you only had to get a few of them Instead of a whole army or something like that did trap you in any way. You understand what I mean Yeah, I I would say that it has not caused me yet but There are definitely the the committee in my head is talking about uh Like the like like ko I think would be an interesting thing to try out just because again It's it's the exact same thing that I've got with with um With kill team where like, you know, I was never going to run a grey knights army But I can build and paint five and then have a fun little kind of roster and then it gives me that You know, I it's like a buffet a little bit of this a little bit of that um I've been saying that for a long time But now buffets are like not a super good idea really so I might have come up with a different Analogy, I don't know But nonetheless, um, this is the same thing a little bit with war cry There's part of me that's like, yeah, definitely I could see myself You know after I get some other projects done Maybe doing a little bit of ko just to see what it's kind of you know Just to get different painting techniques like that's a that's a war band I could see painting up with enamel washes and having a beardal grungy and oily And that should be a lot of fun. Um, so yeah, I I am I am kicking that idea around But scrimmage games do that for me like scrimmage games can't I Scrimmage games make me think more about Armies than big games do because it takes so much longer to get an army done, right? Seems obvious, I guess, but um, it wasn't up until about I don't know five to ten years ago. It seems so It's just such a less of a weight on your shoulders, right? Uh, I know for me the one that did this was gets like I have less than zero interest in painting 120 goblins slash whatever whatever whatever that just sounds like a nightmare But I found I really liked playing them in war cry and I was like, oh, I like I liked the scopes I think goblins are cute. They're funny little things, right? I just don't want to paint a hundred of them. But when I found out I could do You know 12 figs or 10 figs and that's an army depending on how many of the big boingy boys You happen to use or whatever, right? I was like, yeah, okay I'm in for that and I went out and just looked at you know went online and found like a Somebody selling individual boing drop bounders and I had my own goblins and all netters and all that stuff already and squigs and everything else So then boom now I've got now I've got a warband good to go, right? I went out and got two little individual guys and done So It's I mean like my next my next kill team is tiranids Right because you know, I've always wanted to paint tiranids in like a really interesting way But I've never wanted to paint 80 to 100 to 200 of them. So, you know, yeah, it's Very much the same thing I was in the process of like selling down a bunch of my like off collection stuff that I was going to use and like I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna give her this stuff And then I like war cry went back up on the rise and I started really engaging in building war bands And I was like in the process of selling my scaven stuff and I'm like I'm gonna take these three storm fiends out of this collection and just I'll sell that stuff off I'm gonna hold these and this is and and now I have most of a warband Yeah, and so like and for me like immediately like okay I'm back and I have a bunch of scaven models that I hadn't planned on playing But because I had the underworld the scaven underworld's warband I had the makings of a lot of the other small miscellaneous models that I needed Combined with the storm fiends to actually have a full warband of really fun sculpts Yeah, yeah uh so The uh, I mean we could talk probably a long time about the the various warbands that we Like the most or things we've had and maybe we can dip into that a little But I gotta but I want to I want to touch on a question here first Especially for people who might be watching this and might be looking at sort of the products that are out there And like we mentioned you can get if you because a lot of the cards aren't available And let's say you're trying to get into it, right? So okay great Uh, you know, you can go to them with champions and get the first wave stuff If you need the the second or third wave or I think it's maybe it's only the third wave that's not in there I don't remember exactly how it's split out But whatever whatever if you can't get your hands on the cards I will say that there are lots of places on like there are lots of ways You can just google it and find people who've put up the card images So because they're kind of wild widely unavailable especially in some of the later waves but There are three books basically right you've got your core book core set book You got your mercenaries and monsters or monsters and mercenaries I can never remember the exact way that they which order they put them in you got your tomah champions It's monsters and mercenaries. There you go. There it is. Okay. So here's my here's my thing I have found almost no cause to use the monsters and mercenaries book Uh My group were just not like we're just not using the mercs And like we did a game or two where we fought a monster. It was like, okay That was kind of a that's kind of a cool thing right but The tomah champions is like i'm all in for that. That was the best book they did for it So to me If I was going to talk to a new player, I would say you don't you don't need the the monsters and mercenaries book But do definitely pick up the the tomah champions, but I just want to know what you guys think about that I I want to play with like what the monsters and mercenaries came out. I'm looking through it and I'm like Cool, I have a bunch of these models already. I'll be able to bring them in the cask gargant terra geist You know and a bunch of the mercs to like, uh, I don't know the different, um Lord plagues and all kinds are not lord plagues, but the other ones those other guys But the fat guys with the with the big axes and stuff like that lord plagues. I think is on the horse I remember correctly unless he's the harbinger of decay. I don't know It's all basically this it's like it's like taco bell. It's just the same ingredients over and over again You know, and I'm just like it's it's the lord of plague decay. Whatever anyway So, uh, but I I love the concept of being able to bring those into expand the game But I'll be honest is that that I haven't yet. Um Uh, but I want to I just but if if he comes down to where the rubber beats the road It hasn't actually happened, but I I like that The ability to do so is there, but I totally agree with you It's not a requirement. It's if you were if someone was getting started they need the core book And it's a super smart idea to probably have the tome champions for this year But that that other book is easily in third place Yeah, absolutely. It feels like the optional one right like hey, if you think that's a cool thing or after you've been playing for a while You want to you want to make a reach sure go for it. It's not it's not a bad book. That's not what I'm saying It just feels the most optional That's yeah, yeah Yeah All right right on So tom when your experience you're you know, you've been playing with your your son or whatever What's he been running like what what uh, we didn't fill this out. What got him What got what got him excited? His normal armies. Is that what it is? Just like he wanted to take his normal armies and play I could play storm cast right and I was like, yeah Any of it and he's like any of it He's like the guys to the crossbows and the birds and I was like, yeah And he's like, well, like could I do like liberators and I was like, yeah, there's a warband of that He's like Did it did have like are like prosecutors like the angels in there? I said, yeah, actually the angels Wow, and so like for him Like it was a new lease on these other armies that he's already like played and we have a bunch of stuff painted And then for him it was like, oh wait, I'm just gonna play my iron jaws You know And so like he could just take the models that he already had and he's been painting those with contrast And so like he could put basically in almost an entirely painted army of his own on the table Nice And so like that's a great feeling for a nine-year-old um and so Uh Yeah, for him. It's just like he doesn't care about any of the other stuff He just wants to play with his model like functionally his armies his models Sure And that's what's really grabbed his attention Just another chance to keep using those figs in a different way Does the time difference like you mentioned the attention span thing Have you found the time difference for him makes a big impact because the game is It's such a big deal Like it's like like he can do a thousand point game You know, he's like the last game we did for normal aos was a 1500 point game So like he's pushing me he wants to do bigger and bigger games But I can just tell like we get done with one of those games. He's just ready to go play fortnite Or he's ready to go do something else. Sure When we get done with a A war cry game, he's like want to go again You know, and so he's like let me grab something else Like let me get a different warband to go and and like let's leave everything set up and do it again Let's do it again Unless it's one of your like very earliest kind of learning games I'm finding that it's not a let's just play this one's kind of game to some right, right, you know Yeah And so we'll do rounds of like two or three games easily in one setting Or we'll sit down A pound out of game and some games because of just the dynamics of Some of games have been non-boss and what I mean by that is like after setup in turn one We know who's gonna win like there's no question because of mobility because of just how things have like because of placement like It's just obvious like when in that one game that we recorded that I was talking about like when we We were going into as soon as I grabbed at the end of turn two He's like we don't need to play turn three one and he said because I don't have the movement to get to you So I can't actually get to the objective You know and so and so like he looks at the table and goes, okay, good game shakes a hand. Let's do another one Um, and so we're just I see more we get to do more games and experience more armies Because the games are just so much faster Right on no, I It makes sense so Let's talk a little bit of like just sort of your experience with actual Stuff on the table. Okay So obviously, you know one of your core elements going on here is how you're splitting your your army into into three Right into your hammer your dagger your shield or whatever How much have you found that's Tough for people to get their head around At the very beginning when they have to like make this decision of what's going in what group and how much that's like Do you find newer people make mistakes? Like they try to front load everything or you know or like they they Bet it all do they try to spread it even they're like, oh, well, hopefully I get lucky and get the right one You know I'm saying they we get the right group coming in first Uh, or do they do they have bad experiences like how much have you found that to be a challenge? I think that honestly At least in my mind and I I can't I haven't had a ton of discussions about it. I guess But I think that My main issue with that is that it seems a little In kill team, there's this phase that kind of you do before the main game starts called the scout phase Right And we just ignore it like me amongst the people I play with and stuff like that We just go like, yeah, we're not going to do that because it's never played the scout phase once. It's just not Yeah, it's like we we've tried it a couple of times you go. Well, maybe you know after reading it you go Okay, well, I guess we'll try it. Maybe I don't know it seems not Useful, but let's give it a try. Maybe there's something there's some hidden gem And then you play it and you're like, well, that was a waste of five minutes or whatever. So we just don't do it um You know every once in a while you do that cool thing where you can maybe like a piece of terrain be explosive And then every once in a while you actually remember that someone on your opposing team is actually standing on that piece of terrain And then you're like, hey, you're supposed to roll to see if you die. Oh, you didn't okay cool and and so it's just the these three groupings to me kind of Feel like a little bit like that except that you can't really decide not to do it You know what I mean? Yeah, like it's it's it's a real part of the game But it's kind of a little bit of a bummer at least for me at the beginning You're just like and you're right. It's people Look at this and go. Okay. So I got to have at least this many but not this many but more than half It's just it it's it's clunky. I think a little bit Yeah, I mean Tom, I'll I've got a follow-up question, but Tom, I'll let you go and tell me what you think I think it it can determine some games before they start sure Because when we're like because again, we flip cards So we play like, you know down the line, which means that like terrain is dictated setup is dictated Um scenario objectives are dictated twists, you know, like all that we just flipped down but the consequence is because of that like Who ends up on what side is really important? Because deployment based on where objectives are and stuff like that and where terrain is Like when my son's running his iron jaws with that movement three Like it's real important that he has the right models in the right area, right? Um, and if he doesn't then he's going to end up spending a bunch of dice just trying to move Um, and so like it it it can really influence the game But for him, I mean he's just basically went like fairly like balanced across the you know, like He just splits him up and it's fine. Um For my daughters of cane Because I have a lot of mixed hitting Like a lot of is just witch elves sisters and harpies because I don't have any snakes Like I have one snake leader because I use my blood rack would use it for it But I don't have the I don't have the normal unit models for it And so the consequence of that is like I don't have any real like hard hitters You know, we were talking about like having those like really punchy models And so I have to play really cagey with my witch elves And I have to like double and triple team in fights just to try to get weight of dice to take down big stuff Um, and so the consequence of that is that like I haven't I It's in when I play daughters It's a lot more swingy because like my dagger formation is just two sisters slaughter like a sister slaughter to witch elf And so like they just don't have the killing power against really tough stuff Like buckets of hit points with high defenses iron elves Like they just can't bring those two cannot bring one of those models down like a brood down. It's just not possible Right, sure. He's he's just going to smash them in and so like if I get a match up based on like where Where the where the card says I have to deploy these things like it really hurts um, and so But it keeps it interesting, right? Because if I could actually like tactically master my setup every time with optimal things and Da-da-da, it like more games may become non games as opposed to it literally just being a dice roll function um, which I think for more of the beer and pretzels like fun like, you know Uh in table style play with me and my son I like the randomness because it like there's more games or games. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, absolutely. And and that's one of the things I think is interesting about Warcry to some degree is that I know that there are organized play Like tournaments and things like that and it just doesn't seem like a tournament game Right a little bit. Yeah, because it's especially if you're if you are using The cards like they're it can be pretty swingy in a lot of regards uh, so it's you know, I don't know it's That's why playing three games is great. Right because Down and we'll like, you know, we'll get into the first game and be like, oh, I got screwed on cards You know, and then the next game, you know, like it it can flip it can change it can swing Different between games very quickly. Right. Yeah. Yeah I mean, there are still people out there that in the from what I understand at least in the tournament scene That still really hate the random active or the random, uh, you know side-flipping thing with age Oh, sure. Of course. Yes, right. And I that's one of the things when I when they when they first announced, you know Five years ago and they're like, oh, yeah, and it's no longer like First turn is just the rest of the game and just that's the alternating you you you roll every turn I was like, oh sweet. That's pretty cool. And I just immediately started hearing people were going Well, we're not going to do it that way. And I'm like, all right So, you know, it's different strokes different folks. Sure Uh, yeah, I will say that I agree like I think it doesn't feel like a tournament game to me Which is not a negative statement to me. That's actually a positive statement I like it better because like I said, we play the the sort of uh, either coalition of death rules or like the triumph treachery all the multiplayer stuff That's out of there like because this the core book has those all the all that stuff in it you can play the I don't know people ever use this stuff or look at it But you can play like the coalition And they have multiplayer where's it at there is they have like the four player maps as well With the different things you can do there. We use a lot of that stuff We've made up a couple of our own obviously because I do wish they would I it's the one thing that they don't do as much of anymore I wish with some of these small skirmish games. They would put out more You just do it as a white dwarf. Hello gw. Hi. Thanks for watching very much appreciate it Here's my special request for this week Please do a white dwarf in the future that focuses on like coalition of death and triumph and treachery for war cry all like introduces a bunch more Multiplayer victory conditions and twists and you know scenarios and stuff like that. So I think that would be That'd be great. I'd be all about that. Thank you Uh, yeah, just because I think that it that's what I like about it is for the same reason I uh That I like things like classically like triumph and treachery. It's not meant to be A tournament experience. It's meant to be just kind of Fun and to let randomness do a lot of work Right and that makes it more surprising as to what the outcome is Uh, which I think is good And not everybody's interested in that obviously like, you know, but I think that I don't know I'm a big fan of having fun while I'm playing a game, but I know I get it I get it But yeah, I mean if you are definitely if it's about winning Then all that extra randomness does become a real inhibitor into your potential strategy I don't even know the rest those words because I don't really play that way But like there's more strategy things or whatever that you're supposed to be doing I think it's called strategy good point. I But yeah, so, you know But I like that because of the and again Again, if it was if it was a two hour game That would be a little bit of a bummer Especially if you were like halfway through or even a third of the way through you're like Well, I have lost this because of the cards, but when it's a 20 30 minute game You're like, well, we'll just play another one. It'll be fine. Right. Yeah. That's a good point. It's a good point All right So I guess like that we've covered most of what I wanted to cover So I'll just kind of throw it over and say adam Anything else we didn't touch on that you're Like that excites you that you that you wanted to touch on with when it comes to work, right? Well, I think that It's going to be interesting to see Where it goes People have been Yeah People have been noticing that with kill team like, you know, we've had these last what was these three different um The saturday morning kind of twitch stream things like that. There's basically nothing talked about for kill team. Yeah silent Yeah, every once in a great while there's like a little bit of something in a white dwarf, you know, but there's not much and Was that or this is the zote? Is that it? No, that's for blackstone fortress. Isn't it right the singular zote? Yeah, he was blackstone fortress. Yeah so my can my wonder is if you're going to get that same type of thing for Uh for war cry. I mean at this point if we're going to start putting, you know apples to apples You got your core base box. We've done that on both of them. You've got your um Your monsters and mercenaries which somebody in the chat earlier said that's basically commanders for kill team In that a lot of people kind of don't play it And also it introduces those more like heroic hero level models who can suddenly join up. Yep. Yep um, but there's not an elites for uh for for war cry yet that i've seen, you know, or something equivalent You know the tome like i'm sure there'll be another tome in 2020 at some point or something like that But it'll be interesting. So I don't know Like and I guess the other question is to some degree. Do we need to constantly have more and more and more stuff? um You know, it's important in a game like necromunda where everything is completely self-contained, right? You can yet play necromunda with 40k models I mean, you know, you you can play with whatever the hell you want But like, you know, technically there's no rules for that kind of thing whereas kill team. It's all about 40k models um War cry split the difference in that kind of like necromunda They have their own kind of model line that came out different, you know, chaos war bands But then you can also play with the age of sigmar stuff kind of like you do in kill team, you know, right? And as we saw every time they release an army mean I doubt maybe maybe not giants, but But every time they release an army you get a new war cry faction automatically, right? Exactly. We know there's new That we know there's new war cry specific Warbands coming because they did give us that review in the show, right where we got the nice like dark elf Ghosty cloak dude. Oh, by the way, somebody in the in the comments said that I didn't know this because apparently this was in like The latest white dwarf is the zote has rules for kill team along with the sisters of silence. So there you go Now he can be in kill team. So there you go. Most recent white dwarf. So that's good They didn't really put their ambot into kill team They've got special rules where he kind of randomly runs around and hits people Nice Um, but I think that that may be one of the differences is because with kill team you don't have designated models Like we really haven't like we've seen them release kill team boxes with models in it. Yeah, but we don't it doesn't have its own model line and With and so I wonder if that's going to be part of the difference because with And I and it makes me wonder if we have another edition as weird as it sounds to say another edition of kill team coming With its own design model line Like because of how how outrageously successful warfri has been in that sense um That like maybe that's where the silence is coming from because what I will say is that like They are clearly running with it because not only do we have the chaos warbands. We have this new like disciples of cane Warband coming which one would only assume it's heralding other releases coming as well um, and in in kind of in light of that like it just makes me wonder um I don't know that we're going to see it slow down in the same way that kill team did I I wonder if it's if it's if a slowdown is a bad thing, you know, like if if In a perfect world that original starter box for kill team would just be evergreen and always available Now that would be That would sort of be a bit business suicide to do because I'm sure that was probably Well, I mean I'm not saying that you lost money on it like a like you do in video game consoles in the in the early days Of a new release, but I'm sure it didn't make as much You know margin is they're used to in any given product or whatever and all that kind of stuff So to some degree. Yes a loss leader. So I can see that um But you know, I can tell you that I get comments from people all the time saying I'm really unhappy that I can't get that box You know, and I always tell people well, but you can still get the book. So as long as they keep putting the book out there Yeah, I mean the terrain is slightly more expensive if you buy it this way or maybe a lot more expensive depending You know the the silicums and all that kind of extra boxes um But you know, it's still there and I just don't know if there needs to be this constant like avalanche of releases for Every game in say GW's line. I understand it with Aegis Sigma. I understand it with 40k Those are the two big potent poles But with these smaller games Like you release some stuff something like kill team you release the books you put out some stuff If you start to put out too much stuff for it seems like you're just trying to come up with more stuff for people to buy I mean, I you know, I kind of felt like arena was like I don't know. You know what I mean? Like it just didn't seem like I don't know um And and uh, well even commanders like I when I bought the commanders book. I was like, this is cool I like this. This is really neat. I have never yet played a game of commanders I've built commanders that are to be eventually played But I've never actually gotten into a situation to play them elites. I play all the time But um, yeah, so, you know, I mean I don't know that something like war cry. I don't know that I mean the benefit of them making specific war cry models Does make it different than kill team. It's not a one-to-one transfer there, but um Yeah, I mean, it also I suppose it also completely depends on Popularity, you know, I mean, I I don't know I I can tell you that it seems like I People I like to play with like to still play kill team a decent amount But um, I don't know that it maybe went as gangbusters as they had hoped sure Sure as it was initially and I mean, I think the The nice part here is a os still has a lot more like Well, let's just let's just let's just call it what it is a os releases more new armies Than 40k does right like you can have very brand new forces continually roll out in a os and probably that'll be a thing for the next couple years And I'm not saying like every month, but you know a couple times a year one two three times a year Something like that you're gonna get a new army that automatically injects a new Force into work right without them having to do anything, right? I mean they have to make the right card the rules for those cards But that's a pretty low bar, right? They didn't have to go design a special product for that And so I think that helps and then if they want to supplement put out a book Or a book and the tome of champions or something a year Then they can but they they still can keep the interest level in it up where there's like Hey, there's still some reason to talk about it to play it The new person can get into it no matter what army you're running You've got it But they don't have to like try to hit you with the the deli use of stuff where you feel like you're on the treadmill Right, so yeah, I think that is a good and just a sort of Almost a built-in advantage just because of the fact it's taking place in a os, right? So Yeah Tom anything else you wanted to cover? Um, I mean I'll be interested to see like if they pull any more of the shenanigans with like um War cry specific boxes for classic armies and what I mean by that is like um, obviously they have like this specific like quarter squall and splitter banging the cast, you know warbands But like they also, you know, as folks know they release like the glooms fight gets The night haunt and the storm cast Eternals um like Boxes, right? Yeah, so like this Yep, but for storm cast not for storm cast but for the gets in the night haunt There were exclusive unit cards in those boxes That you can get no other way than buying those boxes Um, and it'll be interesting to see if that was a one-off that they wanted to explore or if that's like Going to become a hook Yeah, I mean they did that a lot in kill team. They did a lot a lot And that's what turned me off was I realized that if I wanted to have like all these things I had to buy all these things And I was like Yeah, I'm just I'm not that in like I'm in but not that in and so Here I was super excited because I felt like if I had the cards I could I'd be fine But now what I discovered when I was like, wait Banshees have cards. Where are these cards? And then I you know, I began tracking it down trying to figure out or like Why are they giving uh the The snufflers Why are they giving those models the war cry box and they don't have cards? Well, they do have cards, but only in that box And so it was just such a feel bad. And so I I hope they don't go down that road, right? We'll see what they do But so I say that to say if you're wanting to do night haunt or gloom spike pick up those war cry boxes They're great deals And they have exclusive cards that you're not going to get any other way Nice. All right. So yeah, my final thought is just as I've mentioned so far like Look at it's worth picking up the cards if you can still get them if you happen to have a store That still has them certainly worth picking them up a lot of mean Local stores were closed for a long time in a lot of places recently So some people might still have some stock on their shelves because they weren't necessarily able to sell as easy in some parts of the country Uh, so if your stores are opening back up and you're interested It could be it could be worth a call to the store Maybe they're doing a curbside pickup now because they open back up Like some of my stores just open back up for that here in my state And so like if you're interested it might be worth a call to say Hey, do you still have any of these? What do you got and just do a little curbside? Or something like that or pick them up In GW the web store still has like 20 plus different armies. So it's not like they're fully sold out It's just that select warbands are now sold out. Yeah And I would say that like the cards are just to me such a low bar investment As you mentioned like 8 10 12 bucks a pack That even if it's for an army, you don't necessarily think you love like I got all of them and I discovered armies by Looking at the cards and getting interested in like reading their abilities and thinking about the models and that inspired me So, you know, it doesn't always necessarily like no, there is a zero percent chance that I go do a whole army of gloomspite gets Because I got that warband Zero percent. I just there's no way I have do not have the patience to tolerance paint that whole army But it let me get something on the table and have fun with a warband. I really like And that's a cool thing so you can you can tip a toe into the waters of some of these things in ways You couldn't otherwise and I got that through the cards like I bought the cards first read the cards said I actually like these guys that look pretty cool Then I played one and I was like, oh, okay. I definitely want to play this right and there we go And then boom, then I had a warband. So that's how it happened Uh, so yeah, check it out. There you go. All right, adam Thank you sir very much for spending some time with us tonight. Absolutely. I appreciate I appreciate you guys having me Hey anytime brother and uh, I hope hope hope hope That all this clears up and we get uh, I get to see in person again Sometimes soon whatever it breaks out to same here. Yeah Uh, for all of you out there watching, thank you so much. Hey, don't forget to hit the like button If you like this discussion hit like you're all here. Look, it's just move your mouse It's like this much. It's like move your mouse from here to here. It's that far. Boom click it And that helps increase engagement and helps other people find the channel Which we really appreciate very much. So thank you very much for that. Thank you very much for watching everybody out there Stay safe Get some games in if you can whether remotely or just with your whoever you're sheltering in hobby with As adam mentioned in the beginning, don't forget when you're finishing those hobby projects during this And you're posting them on instagram tag i'm shelter and hobby That is a shout out to emily the creator of that hashtag and now all of the tabletop minions are hopefully sharing their Hashtag shelter in hobby. So keep doing that. Keep painting. Stay positive and as always We'll see you next wednesday