 Special forces have had females within its ranks for years and years. Let's just say Gina's played a role in the British military. Skidded off the road in the middle of a minefield and in the middle of winter. How are you sister? Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, all the better for seeing you. Yes, I'm absolutely delighted you come on the podcast. We met at the Veterans Awards. In fact, we actually met for the promotion photo video shoot that they did a week before up there on HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship. It was an incredible experience. I mean, it was incredible to be finalists in the English Veterans Awards and I met you and immediately I thought, oh my God, what a lovely person. What a really, really nice person. Subsequently, we've had the awards. I've been listening to a wonderful podcast that you did this morning. I'm honored that we have a female on the podcast because we just don't get approached enough. I don't know. I'm not going to conjecture as to why that is, but as I said to you earlier, I wish it was 50-50, but what I do know is you're not a stranger to hardship. I know that you lost your brother and we will talk about that. I know you've done incredible things. I know you serve with royal signals. I'm also privy friends at home to information about Gina, which we're not going to talk about because, well, we're just not, but let's just say Gina's played a role in the British military that I think you can probably work out if you're a bit savvy, but we must respect our guest's wishes. First off, how did you find the other night? I found it all a bit of a blur. Yeah, I mean, as you say, it was amazing to be finalist there. It was a brilliant venue. The thing at Portmouth a few weeks before was probably the height of it really because we got to speak to each other where the actual evening was a bit of a blur, wasn't it? Because it was all rushed and then hearing about people's amazing stories and what amazing community the veteran community is for helping others. Some of the stories were outstanding, weren't they? It was a true honour. Yes, I think a lot of people that I've seen message me and so they're a bit confused. They think it's about what you did in the military and I'm like, no, we're civilians. I don't know about your capacity, Gina, because you still serve in a is that a cadet thing or like you still wear a uniform, don't you? Yeah, so I still wear a uniform. So it's kind of part of the reservists, but not so where our adult instructors for the Army Cadet Force. So we teach all the military skills that you will learn when you're in and it's just a fantastic youth organisation really. You know, keeps the kids off the streets if you like, get some new skills from everything from first aid to shooting to field craft and get some some survey qualifications so it looks better on their CV and obviously if they then decide to go into the military then they've got a bit of a head start because they've got all the knowledge, you know, when they leave it for the stars or master cadets, they're pretty awesome at most of the military skills. So yeah, it's a really appealing to your worthwhile organisations to join as an instructor. So and you get to wear the uniform again. So that's nice, a nice honour to put it back on. What's the experience of being a woman in the British military? Yeah, so I joined in the mid 90s. To be fair, because I joined the Royal Signals, they'd always really had women since, you know, there was racks and they were always attached. So they were a very adaptive core for females. So you didn't, I mean, it's a sensitive subject, isn't it? There was some sexism in there that, you know, there's going to be because there's only like, I think there was maybe 20% females, 80% males, but as a whole, I don't really think I was held back that much, you know, for being female because of the core I joined and it was very full thinking. You know, it was pretty equal, really. With it all, how we were treated. So I didn't really experience any, you know, I've not really got a bad thing to say about it. When I've worked with other regiments and that type of thing, then some people who've been predominantly like, you know, a royal or you know, infantry, they do find it difficult to adapt around a female for some reason. But I guess when you're out there, you're the only female, so you just sort of tell them, look, just treat me the same and I'll crack on with it. And eventually, you know, you'll get the respect like any new person joining anything. Really, you've got to prove yourself that you're one of the same, haven't you? Yeah, of course. And let's not forget that, you know, there's some really important roles that men can't fill. Yeah, exactly. Whether that be, I don't know, you know, the military is a whole range of things. But I mean, least not of which, mate, if you have to go undercover, a bloke can't be a woman. Well, they could probably in this day and age, they'll do a bloody good job. Yeah, I mean, you do get away a lot more with being a female, I think, especially in roles like that, which is why, you know, we've had females beyond the front line since, you know, probably the first and second I wore, we were absolute heroes for what they've done. Yeah, so, yeah, it's always an interesting debate. Females were in the army and now it's, you know, I think it was about a year or so ago, they've opened every role up to females and we've had the first female para pass, which, you know, good luck to us. It's not something I'd want to put myself through. But, you know, each their own. And I certainly, if I had my time again, I'd still probably join the Signals or the Remy, you know, and be in that type of role. And the things you can do are exactly the same as the males, really, and it's proven now. I knew the first female, it doesn't sound much, first female, the liney trades within the Signals was like, you know, trades and they had to have big cable drums and that type of thing. And one of the tests was lifting its big cable drum above her head and she was training for the whole time to be able to do it, so she passed. I mean, it wasn't an official one, but, you know, she wanted to fit in with it all. But yeah, definitely, it's right, there shouldn't be any restrictions. And if you're fit enough and strong enough to pass the courses, then rightly so, you know, each their own. Yeah, it is interesting. I think if you look at Sweden, they've their special forces has been open to female applicants and they've had they've had operators that have obviously passed is is what I mean. And I've looked a bit at the Marines, I'm not like massively into it's not like I don't like wake up in the morning and check how many women are now Royal Marines Commanders. But apparently they they've had is something like about 500 applicants in that, but of course, applicants and people that get through to even begin training is is is massive, you know, that things an awful lot of people out. They've been really quiet at Limbs tonight. I don't know if it's because the first woman that came through, I think she was an Olympic athlete and and of course, the press just went crazy, didn't they? Which is a few years ago, wasn't it? Yeah, which is just unfair because, you know, does anyone want to be in the toughest thing in their life and and they've got the whole of the British press just trying to exploit them? So I do I do wonder if they've made Yeah, well, the first one to do anything, I suppose is always an under the limelight. And, you know, so so the press are going to make a big thing about it. But really, they should they shouldn't tell them till afterwards. So it's not, you know, always she passes failed or, you know, yeah, I do wonder if they put put some sort of press definitely does that once once that it so go on. Yeah, I'll just send. Yeah, yeah, I just wonder they put some press ban, which they should do because it's not not fair on the individual because I've you don't hear anything more about it now. So I don't even know if there's some female Marines now. I mean, maybe I mean, where there's always female Marines, because we've got the cadets. I think the band service got them show my ignorance here. I'm not sure if we we had women in the band. But I certainly don't know if anyone's passed Limson. I've not heard of it. But yes. Yeah, I mean, I think there was, I think it was Pipper, like in the 2000s tried for the Marines. But I'm not sure whether she passed. But I suppose I suppose the main thing the military needs to do is just not make a big thing about it. And which, you know, as you alluded to, there's special forces about females within within its ranks for years and years. And they don't get any dispensation whatsoever. We, you know, passed the same course. And as you say, you know, it's like a 2% pass rate, if you're lucky. So it's, if you want to do it, I think a lot of it's the mindset. So yeah, we are never going to be as physically and strong and fit as a Royal Marine bloke, because of physiology, no matter how much I try to pack on the weight. I'm always going to be this this this build as is some some guys. But a lot of it's mindset because you'll see people break. And you think, why have you just broken and, and, you know, rang the bell or whatever the tradition is in different places. And, and I'm still carrying on, but you're much physically stronger than me. So it is a lot, as you I think you say on a lot, your podcast, it's mindset that gets the human body to do amazing things as opposed to your body will take you so far, but your mind's got to take you the rest of the way really. So you've obviously been, Gina, you've been, you've been on operations, many, many operations, like we're talking active service now folks. And so obviously you've been alongside your male counterparts, if that's the right term, oppo oppo's. Did that ever throw up any, you know, people like bothered about going in the shower or? No, I mean, you just you just you're just sensible with it. I mean, I don't I don't like sharing the shower with, you know, I just don't like those open showers. I don't think anybody does. So it's kind of you just have a different timings for it, don't you. So, you know, you go, I'm going to shower now. So when you'd like one of your showers is just like literally a bucket around the back of your Land Rover or something. And that's just give you each pier some privacy, don't you? Yeah, they just they just, you know, shower in there in the underwear. So that's that's how they they traditionally, you know, shower with people. So is there's always ways around it, really? That was that's what the Gurkers do. Is that what you just said? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I say I said with the Gurkers, quite a lot because I was in 30 signal regiment, which has a Gurkers squadron attached to it. And also when I was in East Timor, that was with two Royal Gurker regiments. And that they we were like 10 Brits and the rest were all Gurkers. So we got to know their routines pretty well. But yeah, they they'd always shower even when they were in barracks, because the lads would say that they always shower in in the underwear or because that's must be part of their religion, really. So yeah, they had an interesting bunch. So, Gina, tell us about the Royal Signals, because we all know about the Royal Signals. We've had Signals on on on the show. But what what's their main role within the British Army? Yeah, so obviously, it's the obvious one to provide communications across the globe. When when we were particularly I was lucky to go to a regiment, which was classed as the globetrotters. So wherever we'd be deployed, we would be British Army would be deployed, we would be deployed pretty much straight away with them to settle comms back to the UK. So the commanders could have real time conversations with with the UK command. So that's sort of the operational side of it. When the operations stretch, which the obvious one is Bosnia, I suppose, and then we put we put harder wired infrastructure in. So it's more like a more stable network. And within peacetime, if you like, back in the UK, we obviously look after all of the the network systems and the command systems that we use all the internet, which is which is generally done by ourselves. And then we have exercises like everybody does where we take out the mobile stuff. And it's an ever changing role. And the years I was in was really, really interesting because comms were booming everywhere. They were everybody was trying to get those signals to leave the army and join join these, you know, amazing companies that was set up everywhere trying to try to rule the world in comms. And it was just a really interesting time because because I was one of the first people to put television conferencing across the internet, well across the network, back to the UK. And we did that in ECM also that was like groundbreaking that was like Star Trek stuff, because we didn't have this this didn't exist in the 90s. And it was it was it was amazing. It was amazing groundbreaking stuff that we did that quite geeky. And how we see it now, you know, it's to a penny, but at the time, you know, the commander there in charges of the British army was was like was made up because he could he could they could all have this conference back with with HQ land HQ over. So it was it was really interesting times to see the developments of bombs from a geeky point of view. It's not all guns and bullets. You know, and it is it has been since the first Second World War, one of one of the, you know, biggest things that does help win the war. Because because if you know what what we're all supposed to be doing at the right time, then the plan goes hopefully well. And then we have the the secrecy side of it where we do have the interceptors and code breakers and the sneaky beaky ops and that type of thing, which is another interesting world, which is where the intelligence has gained. And then we we sit in with the Incor and it kind of merges that world between the Incor and the signals really incredible. It's incredible to think when I left in 1995, I didn't even have an email address because I didn't know what the internet was. It was just being talked about. I don't think I didn't even address until 1998. How how how warfare must have changed with the advent or the inception of the internet? Someone should write a book about it. Yeah. Yeah, it is incredible because I remember, sat in Northern Ireland with a it must have been a laid line internet. I had just found out about this thing called eBay. And I was bidding on something, but it took like about five minutes before the internet. Squat along the cables and updated and then to see whether I'd won this bit of rubbish that I didn't really want anyway, but it was a draw to it. And yeah, and I didn't have an email probably just when I was leaving, I probably got an email because you know, you didn't need them, did you? And you were made up if you got an email. Now you open your thing and you've got probably about 20 30 junkmails. Can't get away from it. Yes. Yes. Gina, talk us through your operations because, you know, well, the ones that you're the ones that you can because you've certainly been in the thick of it. Friends at home, Gina has a rack of medals that's just you need a compass to navigate them. And they just keep going that way. Is it that way or that? Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I mean, it's interesting because as a soldier, I'd say I was lucky because I got to go on these operations when you when you say it now, you're a bit older, you think God was I lucky or was I, you know, young and whatever. But yeah, I always wanted to get five medals. That was my thing because it would fill my chest up. But I've got a few more than that. But you know, yeah, so literally I'd finished training and my training was 14 months because I was an engine communications engineer. I got to my regiment and I did like a month of guard as they always do, they stick here on a month of guard because you knew me. And then I was in a, you know, like an old group and they were like, yeah, Atkinson, you're, you're going to Bosnia and then gave me a date. And I was like, no, this can't be true because I'm like new. And signals tend to go to places on their own a lot of the time. So at the end, I went up to my troop staff here and went, is this right that I'm going to Bosnia next week? And he was like, yeah, I was like, oh my God, you know, straight out of training and I'm getting sent there on my own. And so, so that that was certainly for me, a reality check that I'm not, I'm not just going to be sat in barracks, spiddling with radios and stuff. So I was sent over to Bosnia and it was, it was pretty, pretty calmish then. I was involved in the, the arrest of Sovalandja Moskovich, is that the right one? Which was really interesting, not obviously actively more of a supportive role. So that was a really big part of history and proud to sort of be part of that. But that was interesting because, because I was an engineer, I had to drive everywhere to make sure comms were still in, when they'd go out, I'd be called out in the middle of the night and I'd have to drive nine hours across theatre and had some hairy times then, although it was kind of class of speech, peaceful, because it was S4 skidded off the road in the middle of a minefield and in the middle of winter. And yeah, probably didn't do what we should have done, but we survived. So luckily we kind of judged that the ground was so frozen that if we just tried to retract our skid marks out of it, we should be all right. We're realistically we were supposed to stay and wait for rescue or, you know, do the old knife thing out, but we probably would have froze to death if we'd done that. Yeah, so we did it and it worked, but I wouldn't advise it to anybody. You do realise this is a major contrast between your counterpart who might, like, work in an office, doing a bit of, you know, typing, and they'll probably do that for, you know, pretty much their whole life or a bit of customer service and you're in a minefield, deciding whether to get your bay in it out. Yeah, yeah, it's what makes, it all makes those stories, you've had a couple of years and you forget about them because you're just like, I completely forgot about that story, but we've started chatting. Yeah, and that was a really good tour. You know, I always when I'm on tour trying, if I can, help the local community. So if this thing's set up, I will try and do it. So I used to go and see the orphans. When I had some downtime, I used to go and, you know, play with them and chat to them and that's the reality of war, isn't it? Because you do see that is quite heartbreaking. But also, you know, a good thing to do. I remember we used to take chocolate bars and I had a big box of Twix's and I got there and they were over running at me and I was handing out Twix's and this one little kid came up and his face was covered in chocolate and I was like, you've had fun. He's like, no, no, no, miss, no, miss. And I was like, there you have. And he was like, no, no, obviously I had to give him one because it was like the cheek of it was brilliant, you know. So yeah, that's what I'd like to feel like I'm engaging when I've got the opportunity and luckily, on most of my operations, I've been able to have an impact or try and help the local communities. So yeah, Bosnia was good. I kind of got back from Bosnia and then Kosovo was kicking off to the start. So I was there from the very start when we went to the S-Pod in Macedonia, not Macedonia, Greece, Fessaloniki and then we all drove in like the biggest military convoy in history, I think it was. And we basically drove in, stopped in Macedonia, got some abuse from the locals in Kosovo and then I ended up, our detachment got posted to Albania where the refugees were, which again, we helped set up the refugee camp with the engineers. They helped build the trains and stuff and that was, Ukraine really rings through with that because you get to know the displaced people or the refugees and see the real impact of war. You're not just a squadron on a gate or doing your job. You're seeing families reuniting that thought each of them were dead. It was a definite ground breaker to see it and when we were there, we would get involved with the community events and they were so, and they didn't need to be thankful but so thankful that we'd come in and helped them and then we would like, you know, we set up a football match and some of them didn't even have trainers on and they still beat us and we found out that there was a few Kosovo national side in there so we didn't stand a chance. Yeah, so that was pretty, pretty good. Kosovo has been, I don't want to say kicking off, it's probably a bit strong but they've had some issues recently. Have they not? It comes down to number plates that apparently, I spent a whole day just reading up on this to try to get my head around the complexity of what has gone on in that part of the world and former Yugoslavia and etc, etc, etc but there was something about there were, I probably got this wrong but Serbs driving around with Serbian number plates and they've been allowed to do this because it, you know, nothing was made of it and then in recent times the Kosovo government, nope, you've got to have a Kosovo number plate and it caused, yeah, it caused a bit of an uproar and there were militia on the streets and fortunately it doesn't seem to be anything that's come of it but I mean when you got home did people understand what was going on over there? I think with wars and stuff unless you're living it and you're there you don't really ever understand, I mean you can read the history and listen to the ops brief before you go but unless you're living it daily you're not really ever going to get it, you know, for example we all live in a UK and most probably I'd say probably 95% of the UK don't get what Northern Ireland is all about apart from the people who are living it so yeah and it's like do we ever get, if I'm trying to be cynical, do we ever get to the truth of what the war or whatever was really about was it down to money and greed or was it something? I'm glad you said that and that's normally my part of ship yeah yeah we can go off on tangents on that definitely so and that's cynical old age and reading around it because when you're a soldier you know you train to do what you do when you go and do it and particularly you know the American army are a fantastic example of this because they don't question the narrative no matter what if their boss tells them to stand there all day they're that kind of institutionalised like they will do it no matter what word the British army is is not as bad they will sort of question things but if we start questioning things and they we're not going to be an effective army are we really and that's why we're all young when we join I think yeah well they say don't they you know you shouldn't be able to join the military until you're 50 and then we know what the recruiting numbers would would would be like yes um East Timor I can you tell us about that? Yeah so East Timor I was basically told I wasn't allowed to go on any more operations and I needed to stay in barracks and teach the new the new guys you know the kit so I was a bit gutted about that but I was on you know do you remember the old CO's PT where you get beasted before before they send you away on a weekend and I kind of got a tap on my shoulder from my troop staffer and he kind of went you lucky bitch you're you're going to because that's our mentality isn't it you're going to East Timor and I know it was just a whirlwind and and and from we would sort of gone within 12 hours because it was that rapidly changing so the the the the problem with East Timor is the East Timories wanted independence from Indonesia and the UN were there to oversee the voting and the militia or the Indonesian army whatever way you look at it were basically going around chopping the public's heads off and intimidating them not to go and vote and so it was a it was a nasty nasty kind of it wasn't a conflict I don't think it was a nasty time and the Australians were the lead nation but they hadn't really done a lead operation since Vietnam and so we were kind of sent over there to support the Australians and and give them some guidance and this is what I was told so if there's any Aussies listening and that's wrong this is what we were told as Brits and so there was a small contingent that went over there and we were there from D-Day and we had an S pod in in Darwin which was lovely to get to go to Australia but I didn't get to see much of it and then we all flew over to East Timor and set up and and it it was really so one of my favourite programmes was MASH when I was a kid and and that's maybe why I ended up joining the army and it and it was like scenes from you know from Vietnam or or you know the Korean war from TV that it just felt like we landed and you know there was there was it was it was derelict the place it was totally taken over by military and we drove into the streets in our soft-skinned Land Rovers and and there was it was just derelicts there was houses on fire there was there was a gecko patrol I remember going along the streets and yeah it was just totally what you'd envisage your war zones to to be like because most of the Indonesians and Timory sorry had fled to to what we found out later to the jungle and and when we when we got into our place where we were going to set up barracks it was an old government building which had been totally looted and ransacked and as we pulled in we started taking incoming fire so it's kind of like you know this this is getting real and so we all you know debuffed and started taking cover and giving cover of fire and that type of thing and I remember because we hadn't been issued flat jackets and we all we had was our helmets and I remember being behind this wall thinking well the walls not going to really protect me should I put my helmet on or not and I remember going through slow motion thinking well there's no point if I've got my helmet on because of the rest of me is all exposed and yeah so that was sort of welcome to East Timor and then sort of later that day I was on guard on the front and a building blew up opposite me which was which was crazy and we had all the civilians I was trying to get them out the way of it and the BBC was there within seconds with a mic in front of my face and I probably sounded like a dumb squad here if it got put out because I was just saying I don't know what happened you know the narrative that was told to to say and then I think one of the the SES were over there the commander of the SES came down and spoke to me to see what had happened and sent out fighting patrol yeah and that and that was that was the first of probably 12 hours of East Timor and I actually had the diary and I'd forgotten quite a lot because I was reading through it a few months ago and so it was pretty full on for a fair few weeks but it was classed as the military's most successful sort of mission and op within the 20th century because we had no mission creep and it kind of went from from total like like crazy war carnage to total tranquility and it you know would destabilise the country within quite a long you know short periods of time and we were back home for Christmas Tony Blair let us home and and that was us a job done I believe the the Aussies it became a bit of their bot like their Bosnia they stayed there for quite a while and but as part of the British military we were kind of in and out and well yeah it was yeah some some probably dark times within it but but I think we did a good job over there was that your hairiest moment in everything I know that some of it we're not going to speak about but as boots on the ground was that your hairiest moment yeah probably I mean there was quite a lot of times we thought we were going to get attacked and we were on stand to and there was a lot of militia about to start with so when we sort of went up to we found the displaced people on the top of the jungle so we went on on mission to bring them back and that was that was I think that was more intense thinking we were going to get attacked the whole time and because we were we were you know sitting target if you like but yeah sort of the baptism of fire in the first 24 hours was probably the reality check really so and Gina you served in Northern Ireland yeah can you tell us just as an insider from the Signals Regiment was it Corporal Woodson House is is is that kind of like folklore sorry I should start from the beginning when we went to Belfast in 89 it was 89 like literally as we were doing our beat-up training one of our corpus Jan very very nice man from my home city he came into the office he went large look and he had this double page spread from the paper and it was that horrific incident where these two there's there's dispute over this but let's just say there were two British military undercover who accidentally driven into a funeral cottage an IRA funeral and very quickly the crowd realized these two were not part of us and the taxis quickly moved to block the it was it was horrible and it was all televised there was a camera in in the sky and I won't for the sake of the podcast I won't you know repeat what happened but I think people can you know can imagine for themselves and I remember patrolling past Penny Lane one day and that was the place where you know these two poor chaps said said they're Sionara through through no choice of their own but I've heard different things over the years I've heard that they weren't siglers that they were you know on special ops or something I'm only mentioning it because this is my podcast and I'm a bit fascinating obviously I'm fascinated with stuff that happened in my life whether whether you heard anything about that genome or what how that is talked about in the regiment yeah so that they were definitely signals because we've got a memorial in Blanford which is the home of the rule signals and when when we're over there on ops as signalers which I think where the confusion maybe is with the you know myths and stuff we wear cities because we're out in in the population because we go out and fix the comms which is which is no real secret now I don't think but they were definitely signalers and and it was a dark time in the core and and the what I've been told from the core is they were they were handing over to each other so one was leaving theatre and the other one was coming in so he was driving him around showing showing him the area and then unfortunately they took a wrong turn and it was all just pure pure horrible horrible bad luck really um whether whether they'd ignored anything that is debatable some people say they they try to get to see if you know but who who will ever know with you know we're not going to speak to them are we and how they was watched and filmed from the police helicopter um so it's all it's all on there but at the time apparently the police thought it was one of their own and didn't know it was military uh because we we probably didn't have that good a comms or they didn't know they were in the area um so sadly they they lost their lives in the most horrendous torturous way really that just like un unbearable to think but yeah so so they they do have a memorial in Blanford if you if you go if you you know want to go to the Royal Museum Royal um Court of Signals Museum in Blanford it it's just outside the museum where you can see the memorial yes it um I don't know what kind of HD they have back then but the the chopper footage actually show one of them the magazine dropping out of his pistol and one of the theories was he'd gone to hit the safety catch but hit hit you know the magazine ejection button it it was um they had brown instantly and they were they're pretty they're pretty not not the best pistol are they um and I know they did get a warning shot off but then they obviously had a stoppage um and then and I mean they wouldn't have stood a chance he heave away with you know you've only got one nine nine rounds in each one yeah yeah you can't help but think no if I was the chopper pilot I'm just speaking from what I would have just landed on top of that car yeah but but then you don't know how much room was in the chopper do you might have just been one of those tiny little things with room for a pilot and his co-pilot but I'd say grab hold of this kid's guy yeah um it was just horrible the way the chopper just hovered and we and everyone had to just watch the whole thing where you have to watch it but obviously we were just about to deploy so um yes gosh Gina let's talk a bit about your um your charity efforts and and and your cycling and let's talk a bit about skiing because that was military skiing was one of my favorite favorite things when I when I serve one of the few things I've been good at in my life um yeah but your your your brother died of cancer yeah so in 2019 he was diagnosed with with with cancer um bowel cancer I mean totally he was a fit and healthy healthy lads you know um he he um he was diagnosed with it and it sort of ravaged through his body within four months and COVID didn't help because COVID then started um and some treatments were stopped so you know you suppose you have to think he would have died anyway just would have been prolonged um yeah so he he tried he died of cancer um which which for me it kind of made you realize like you you know you're not immortal are you um and I was was quite a quite a low time for myself um and I'd I'd always used um fitness as a lot of us do um for to to get rid of my stress um and and kind of just before that it was actually a day before my brother died I'd just been to see him um I would go for bike rides and then I I ended up in A&E because I got hit um locally you got you got hit by a hit and run driver yeah and then and then I ended up in A&E um weirdly my mum was driving past a few moments later um so I got in with her I was just gonna go home and then it just you know when things start getting worse and I was bleeding a bit so I got to stop at a chemist and started rafting myself up and I was like no I need to go to A&E I think um but yeah I was okay I just had like really badly bruised bones and needed a few stitches um and then as every cyclist will know the first thing you look at is your bike my bike is so destroyed and I was gutted and you know because it's your pride and joy um well then you know the next day my brother my brother died um so I mean he can't say he died peacefully but he died if you like when when he went on his decline he died quite quickly um and then I I I started what I normally do is I started a year-long task to raise money for the charity that I had helped him um so I was doing 100 miles a week at that time sort of trying to run walk um couldn't really cycle because my bike was busted um and I I reached out I think I was speaking to health heroes at time and then they put me in touch with Saffa and Saffa amazingly um got the funds together to get me a new bike um which is why um after the year-long task of like riding 5200 miles um I'm running so Bit and Bob's I raised £10,000 and set up an art foundation um for cancer patients so they can they can de-stress or try to you know and not thinking about the disease all the time um so that's up and running um but I wanted to give back to Saffa um and supporting for us because I'd done some events with them and then I joined up um the Roar Signals in 1996 went all around the world with with them and then Cadiz on did my last one um and then went to Northern Ireland and then specialized from there as I went on operations with with Bosnia and stuff there was there was things that were not particularly nice about times but when I was away on operations I always felt that I was there to help I always volunteered for extra things so I remember going to Bosnia and helping out at the orphanages it was amazing to go and see these kids and give them a bit of joy you know they they do so much for serving families and veterans you know um I mean they are the I think one of the biggest they've been around the longest so they've got they've got good good you know methods to get to get the to get the funds to the right people at the right time really um yeah so so I wanted to give back to them but thought I can't I can't do another road race or something because that's just normal um and everyone's doing it and and whether you've got the time so it decides what book together um buy veterans for veterans to show what people do through the military um and also there's a lot of people within the military who who may or veterans who may not have the time you know to run around the UK or may not have the ability to to go and do a marathon so it was another outlet for somebody to to express and kind of give back so I put this book together which to make it even easier I'd said I'd do it in poetry format um and and the book um is a beautiful thing I got an artist to illustrate the people's poems and it kind of I've even got a recruit Josh who's now in the Royal Marines band um and he was a recruit at the time so we've got from recruit all the way through to joining the army operations and then leaving the army and then we've got um volunteers and family members that have also written poems about how the military has affected them or effects a lot um so it's a lovely book everything goes to charity we've been in the top 10 a couple of times um for British poetry we kind of keep bumping in and out of the minute flexing back over my career but I had a really really brilliant career to be honest um it was probably everything I wanted to be fair which is probably why I needed 12 years and then then I left the right time um and it's just mainly you know it's not going to make millions but what it does do is raise the awareness of of SAFA and Sporting Force which is another great military charity that that does stuff through sport and for veterans and serving personnel and um and yeah so and and it's also given me a platform as well to be able to you know speak to the likes of yourself um and and I've done guest speaking in front of you know the first look the first admiral sea lord is that what he's called I'm being army I'm like getting it wrong it's all right I'll do it the other way around yeah and um you know in MPs and like amazing people that you know I've stood in front of a thousand type VIPs and and shared my story and about the wonderful work that that military charities do and raised um you know touching nearly 300,000 now for SAFA and other military charities so so that platform from this the problem that this is a book from this from this really you know small small thing that actually probably would have been easier to climb Everest so than to write a book because that's totally alien to me um but yeah so it's doing good it's the the poets that are in it it's more like a little community and and we try and keep in touch with them and and get them to do bits and bobs um and then and then from from them I'm still doing crazy crazy challenges so my last one was um 50k a day for 30 days um which was a killer I've kind of finished my 50k that's sort of when I would finish it take me from like three hours probably normally to do it each day if I did it in a water and I'd be like oh my god I've finished great and then I'd be like I've got to do it again tomorrow that is some going because it took me 36 days to run the length of Britain and I my goal was just to do an ultra marathon a day so anything over 26 miles I didn't do a lot more than 26 but when I got there I'm like right that's me let's put put put my tent up get some food on that is that's um that's incredible yeah I mean I did a lot of it actually in indoor on my indoor bike because it was during the heat wave and I'm big into um I do a lot of animal rescue and stuff so I've got three three three dogs and one of them that day had a had a massive fit when I just started in the heat wave so I was actually doing it in a conservatory on a on a bike 240 degrees heat because I had to stay with dog because to make sure he you know didn't fit but yeah and it was um yeah I've just needed my head testing when I came up with that idea but I suppose it's the same as doing an ultra every day I mean I've done I've done a few ultras but every day yeah your body kind of gets used to it though doesn't it I suppose in a weird weird way yeah the biggest the biggest problem was the admin you know having to talk to people and arrange things and like where am I going to get food and all that stuff just took like you know trying to do Facebook post it just took so so long but Gina what was your brother's name um Spencer Spencer well I don't know what I'm supposed to say condolences um you're you're absolutely doing him proud it's having a bit of hard time because my brother was going through um at the time cancer treatments and I was having to help him a lot he got taken off his cancer treatments to due to Covid and got given weeks to live and I was there when he died I think I was the last person to speak to him the day before and he and he was just really positive he was Royal Navy he was there for a lot of his life and he was he was um he was always he finished I mean because it was Covid we couldn't have a funeral but it was amazing what they did they lined the streets for him the Navy and um and all the people who we worked with and it was um it was amazing he had the Royal Legion there and everything um because we he was a popular guy yeah and I think I think because he was you know he was 52 when he died hence me doing 52 weeks and you know all the numbers things um we had and but the main thing he always said um was you know you've got to you've got to live your life and and to the max really and and that's what I do try to do and then when life events like that happen it makes you do it even more um and that's that's why now I think I'm driven to just you know doing doing what I enjoy and and which I'm looking up to be able to do I have to work now and again um and I'm raising money for charities and stuff you know the other day I was in um well basically in with a load of rescue pigs and mucking them out and so it's not it's not all gifts and glamour to be fair I'm I'm more about being in the mud really which probably most of those squaddies are you know so wherever I can help I try to really um and maybe that's my problem I'll never say no anymore us keeps people say can you do this and I'll go yeah okay yeah I think we've all got to learn to say no because people will will take take take from you and gosh it can really backfire yeah anyway I've just made um made um the calling it charity champion of um a dragon boat team that's for veterans um so that that's a brilliant thing it's called pair warriors um and they they basically they they get veterans together and get them out on the um on the dragon boat so it's like a real camaraderie thing um so I'm trying to bring awareness to that because they you know the more the merrier and we we take them to national events and my background with that is I used to be in a British dragon boat team um and we won free gold medals so so they kind of brought me on board to try and raise the awareness but that's a brilliant if you if you're um it's sort of baseness stains way but you can be anywhere because they meet up around the place so that's you know sport um and fitness definitely brings us all back together and brings us up that camaraderie isn't it have you been in Hong Kong no but if I had if I was at the time when I was a gold medalist I'd have been like a pop star yes because sadly not here when I lived in Hong Kong obviously the dragon boat races were a big thing every year but the but the year I was there was the year that many people were getting taken by sharks for just it was this random summer um and it was in the paper almost daily for a while there was several several there was divers that got eaten there were people swimming in the morning da da da and when they filmed the dragon boat race the chopper that was looking down on the races switched like that and there's a big bloody tiger shark just swimming swimming next it was uh yes yes at least the dragon boat quite stable I wouldn't have wanted to be on a stand-up paddleboard that's no no Gina tell me there's a couple a couple more things I want to ask you but how's your mental health been you know after all this service I mean I you know I I've not hidden my challenges over the years and um yeah so I what at the same time my brother was diagnosed with cancer I was diagnosed with PTSD around the sort of same time but um obviously all our all our concentration went on my brother and that was that was a tough time at the same time and I have I have sought help through um help for heroes through their their kind of counselling system um but I my coping my coping mechanisms is is I suppose by by talking about it to people um and and also um by by throwing myself myself into challenges and fitness and that that's kind of I think what's always kept me sane is is having a challenge whether that's a healthy way to do it it's supposed to be better than alcohol um which unfortunately a lot of the armed forces do get addicted to um I didn't realise that it was um a coping method to be honest with you it the the bike's really important just to get out I mean when I didn't have it for those few weeks I felt like my my lungs have been chopped off you know I didn't have an outlet so yeah I can totally relate with it and and you know it is one of those challenges that that some of the armed forces do face um but I think it's if you like it's getting better because we we can talk about it now without without that real stigma um and people understand it a bit more don't they you know because it has ruined lives in the past and and you know people are still committing suicide because they're not getting the right help which is which is tragic that you know someone saves the country and then they can't they can't cope outside of of the military um because they're not getting the right help um really tragic I've had I've had quite a few friends who have who have been on the edge or you know lost as in lost their family due to their behaviors and and then then had to seek help which is kind of too late if you like because they were not too late because they're still breathing but you know they have lost everything really and I think it's I think it's better now because there's a more of a sport system when you leave because I know when I left it was just basically see you later type thing you'll be back in six months because you won't make it you know that sort of squaddy squaddy sort of humour um where now I think I think the forces do give them more of a care package if you like when they leave where where the old days it was like off you go you deserter yes it's ironic that you know the stuff you do in the military you know you learn some powerful stuff there and you you come through a lot a lot a lot of tough stuff and my message to anyone who's struggling is come on come on don't forget where you've been you've done this you know you've done it before it might not be you know you've had challenges you will come through this you know just keep the faith look at us we've all we've all been there um you know hang in there find someone that that you know cares about you and and that's got a level head and just chat with them yeah I think a lot of people think maybe um I was speaking to Daniel on that podcast and he sort of said to me you know the the worst thing you've been through is the worst thing you've been through so you shouldn't really look at what others have been through and go you know god he went through that and he's lost his legs and he's you know he's worse off than me with with the mind it it's a completely different ballgame isn't it because the worst stuff you've been through is the worst stuff and sometimes um some things affect you more than others like I remember because because I used to have a specialist trade within a trade I was I was like a medic so it was like a paramedic um trade so it was like the chest drains and tracheotomies and all that type of thing and I had to be attached to an A&E every year um so I got the choice between Manchester or South Africa because they were like the best places for stab wounds but I obviously chose chose Manchester because it was close to home and and I you know you see some terrible terrible stuff because it's A&E isn't it right so but the worst thing that got to me was a little old lady that I've been brought in that I that I broke her hip and laid there for like two three days without anyone discovering her and that totally like made me have a wobble because I was just I was just so upset about this little old lady so you just don't know sort of what what triggers things and and that that's I suppose why the brain is still was still discovering stuff about it so people hopefully the stigma isn't there as much and people can um get out and talk about it I think I think male female things females do talk about it more um generally just how we are as as or whatever females chat more I don't know talk about crap more um but and then you could argue that a lot of us maybe don't see as much from the military aspect um but you know you've got police and paramedics that are equal and do the same sort of jobs I mean just get get help really isn't it reach out even if it's to a friend or you know or you know you know me or you and you send a message I've had people message me late at night that I don't even know and and you know it's it's my duty to to try and speak to them and keep them keep them on board and try and point them in the right place because I'm no expert I mean I've done my metal hoe first aid but I'm no expert on it by by any means so it's just about connecting with your friends when you know that they're low I suppose isn't it not so also Gina there's this big myth that I get this a lot I get a lot of messages and it's and it's the complete reverse I get a lot of people say oh well there's never in the military Chris I've never been what you guys were but and I just say to anyone childhood trauma is the worst trauma to experience and many of us people have been in the forces we went through it and this big part of the reason we end up joining the force is to find some meaning you know in our lives and I just ask everyone to understand when you're a kid you're a toddler you don't you got no control over that what adults do to you you've got no control right you're in an age where you can't make sense of it because you're too young so you internalize it and then then it's bang it's it's a I'm not gonna say it's a thing for life because obviously many of us find ways to you know manage it the difference between that scenario and a soldier who's an adult who signed up for what they do they might go into conflict yes they're probably going to see horrific the but but you're an adult you have the ability to go ah right and and and deal with it but it's it's the toddlers that have had this horrible stuff in their lives and it's in there for life because they were too young to make sense of it and the brain has buried it really really really so anyone out they go yeah Chris I was no no no it's the other way around you you know everyone's story is different there's no one trauma that's above but we need it you know we need a much more expanded dialogue on this um in the early years you you know I still remember the things I was taught when I was you know young so it stays there doesn't it so you've got trauma it's gonna stay for a long long time and then you've got because I work within the youth services with the army could at first we do we do lots of training on safeguarding and stuff and some of the when they get to trust you some of the stories that you hear that you know horrendous but at least they're speaking about it early so we can get them to the right place and and try and start that healing process earlier so you know adults of our age potentially didn't have that that helpful lifeline um I mean I remember Esther Ranson setting something up when I was young and that was probably groundbreaking and the first thing but you know some things these these kids go through is horrendous I couldn't even imagine trying to say that it's a childhood you know Gina sorry folks we had a little break there um the three more things I want to ask you but um well the first thing is I'm getting a lot of recruits email me and they're like Chris and we don't talk in specific terms Gina because we're not allowed to because of the platform so if I say they don't want to get the the thing guys you you know what we're talking about right and my uh but they're going yeah but if I don't I can't my response is like do you really want to work for employer that has that little care about you that they'll subject you to an experiment that is now proving catastrophically catastrophically wrong there's so many I mean we're talking like two people in my family I'll mention no names they don't even know they've been in fact they their doctor's gone oh really I've had three three three guests Gina on the podcast on Chris I can't come on next week um I'm having me leg chopped off because I've had complications because of uh a certain thing uh Chris how are we going to do this because I'm I've got to go on all this medication because I when I have that thing it's it's and I'll tell people you know it's as harsh as this might seem you get one beautiful body you're born perfect you're born perfect right and you don't want to screw with that not when you're talking about like you know I'm just going to say DNA technology I know it's slightly different but but you like oh my god I've had such a beautiful life and I'm so glad I'm and I would never never never do and then wouldn't wouldn't let my family knit any of that stuff ever ever like like categorically it's it's uh everything in the science world folks is theory right and when you trace back the theory and the origins of medicine you'll see it comes back to like a few guys many of whom spoke out about this stuff but which guy did they pick they they picked the guy that backed their their theory and now we've got this whole big pharmaceutical thing based on like one guy who was a bit of a prick right sorry jean I'm going off on one slightly but you know I I led the global veterans alliance into battle and and it was a battle we marched on down in street we you know we are not gonna let our kids be subjected to these corporate trillionaires psychopaths right and you can guess my response to recruits that that how's it been for yourself um because we're we're volunteers it's it they all kind of assume that everybody's had it is is is what it is um I'm like yourself I know I know people who who've dropped dead the day after um I definitely know that there's people in my family who've had life changing illnesses now grows upon them and they're young um my I'm my mom every time she has one she's sick and she's definitely deteriorating and it's a real worry but she won't listen to me because she's of the age where whatever the doctor says is true um and I guess for for a recruit it's it's really it's a tough decision um because it it's what they want to do but as you say you know if it's this DNA technology we don't know what's gonna happen and to me anything that potentially and this is this is fact this is science fact isn't it that they cut party DNA out so that doesn't sound like a good thing to me as a as a logical person um it's all it's up to everybody's choice and and the information's out there if you if you look for it and it's not all all wacky information it's from scientists and and and now we've got um you know um sudden death syndrome within sports personalities and there's like crazy fit football is just collapsing on the floor um you know that didn't happen before covid so it's like you do the maths and and again if they they want to that's what they want to do you know but there is other jobs I don't think the police are forcing it upon them um there's people in the police so it's a similar similar sort of calling isn't it police the military um and the other get it it's a difficult one but I suppose it's personal choice I'm personally you know I'm trying to travel abroad to tomorrow and I don't know whether I'm going to get checked and turned back um if I do or do don't you know I'm none and that's that's a price you pay isn't it restriction of movement which is totally totally wrong and illegal really well it's it it goes against everything you and I fought for and our ancestors fought for well I just see it as you know and it's a principal thing isn't it that you haven't got you haven't got and I've listened to some of you I'm watching you know when you were you were doing that amazing thing down in London um and it's it's it's the matter of freedom of choice isn't it and for for I mean thank god this country didn't go down those routes but they made it pretty hard for people um and it is freedom of choice and if they take away that choice then then what are if what you're saying what have we fought for because we were in a dictatorship aren't we yeah exactly exactly do you know moving on to you've got any is that your camper van there yeah yeah it looks like something out of Star Trek yeah it's um it's it's a wreck what's called a race cruiser so in the in the back is amazing so all my all my I do a lot of mountain biking and and I'm quite an outdoorsy person as you probably can gather I love nothing better than just being on the road before Covid I used to go to Spain and spend months in Spain stuff as what you know running and stuff so yeah it's um it's a pretty cool thing and I'm trying to get up to Scotland and Wales and all the glorious parts of the UK and and just as I said earlier just you know live live in my life as much as I can and and as I'm getting as I'm getting older to start getting more injuries but I'd rather I'd rather get injured and and I've done crazy wild things while I can and then you know and not live my life but yes it's a pretty cool thing I won't advertise you built it but you can if you want it's uh if it helps them yes and Gina just tell us there's not many people have body guarded Britney Spears but I believe that's another one of your accolades so yeah so I didn't see so I used to live in America and do some um very very rich people um was my clients um like very very like crazy rich like you know I used to have a flat in the nearly in Chicago and I used to live in LA but in LA we've got you've got LA and Beverly Hills and then you've got the posh part of Beverly Hills believe it or not and that's Beverly Park and when you the the ivory gate opens there's prancing everywhere and and that and it's just remarkable and I used I think we used to live like next to um oh god he wrote he did ET Steven Spielberg and Rod Stewart with our neighbors and stuff obviously not my money but I was there um and during that time they they Britney Spears was going through her um her head breakdown of you know where she shaved the hair off and and now it's all come to like probably why it happened with her father and stuff um and they wanted me to to take over as as a bodyguard and mentor um but I did actually I declined it in the end just because I thought once you've you've done a celebrity of that kind you can never go back into you know doing the discrete work which I do a lot of as well as the cp stuff so um I did decline it because she was a bit of a wild child at the time um but yeah it was certainly certainly living the high life but without the money have you had any kind of you know shenanigans going there stuff you've had to deal with I guess it's probably controlling the public is a big thing yeah fans I mean yeah the way I the way with I view sort of cp and stuff is is is you need to like be sort of a mind reader so you need to keep the clients out of the troubles so you need to predict what's going to happen if you like um so it's it's kind of like a gift of fear so we've we've all got it if you've read that amazing book it's like if you feel something's wrong then then don't do it you know if you feel at the alleyways today tonight feels a bit dodgy for some reason then take the long way around and that's how I've always tried to I mean obviously trying to control the human who's very rich and influential um to not do something that they they want to do but um generally it is sort of the public um you know if they recognize them um and and just trying to advise them not to do silly things um which a lot of the time they don't listen to but then you have to mitigate the risk um and it it's it's funny it's a boring job but that's what you want it to be because when it gets exciting it's all gone wrong so you want it to be boring um you want it to be mundane and you know you're following them like somebody's servants and that type of thing um but yeah I've had a few few issues um on Hollywood boulevard with someone coming at them with scissors um and I had to I had to get get the clients out the way because because obviously his bodyguarding the idea is is not to is to get them away from the risk as opposed to expose them to the risk so you know you're not necessarily going to fight the person with the scissors which is what I I decided to do I I got the pair the the principle out the way um by shoving them into a shop and shutting the shop door and then that that individual went away being nuts somewhere else um and we we called 911 and and the police came down and got on um but at the time the principle was not happy with me because I touched her for a start and pushed her into a shop so she she really like she she she's never saying anything at the time but I did get sort of telling off from her PA later on and I explained what happened and she was like oh all right okay maybe you should get a bonus as I have maybe are you and um there's lots of interest if your bodyguarding stateside do do bodyguards carry because it depends depends on the um the state you're in so within Chicago we could we could we could be armed within the present the the uh the um housing and what's he called where they live and the residents um but when we went outside of the residents we couldn't but what we used to do was we would hire in the back of car undercover police we're not undercover off-duty police so they would be all back up with with the gun because we couldn't carry over there um different states did allow us to carry um LA we couldn't do anything which was bizarre but yeah so we could only have it in the residents as well so yeah it just depends and then then if we move around different countries um we could in some places if it was needed really but generally not so much just in the residence we'd have we'd have um arms and try and use the local police because they're allowed to moonlight in America unlike in this country and allowed to take the guns home so it's like a bizarre place the state isn't bizarre place it's an incredible place but I tell you why the most beautiful people you're ever going to meet on the planet not all of them obviously I've met all of them well I've met a few idiots over there but yeah generally speaking just such such kind generous loving people incredible place to be incredible I was only talking about it the other night I was going I do love the states and I've lived worked in different parts of the state so I worked in Virginia and that was a night I was teaching their military as you can possibly imagine something um on a job so we were over there as contractors and teaching um some skills and drills um and that that was awesome they they were that was a lovely state um and obviously the the guys we were working with over there from the US and Navy were were awesome as well um but yeah I do I do miss if you like the freedom at the minute of being able to to go back to America and and explore it a bit more um it's certainly a unique a unique place definitely very much so it's all the more reason we should fight for our freedoms folks so the youngsters can get a chance to go and visit these incredible places uh and and exercise they're right for medical freedom but that's we've covered that Gina this has been absolutely wonderful um I probably shouldn't say this on a podcast but it's it's been one of my most favorite chats um you're an incredible person I'm delighted I'm honored to to be your friend I hope we can do some stuff together in in in the future um maybe on a bikes or or some running or something um we're gonna yeah definitely yeah friends at home we're gonna put a link for Gina's book below and links for Gina's social media etc etc so please get involved in and uh and follow big love to you all if you could like and subscribe if um if that really helps the channel and Gina let's let's chat again stay stay on the line by the way but for the purposes of the tape let's chat again soon and massive thank you definitely thanks a lot for having me on it's been it's been a pleasure and it's um definitely great to have finally met you and become friends and we will do something something crazy at some point definitely don't beast me though all right