 Hello everyone, I am here with Jen Perlman running against Debbie Wasserman Schultz in Florida's 23rd Congressional District She is back on the podcast for a third time to talk about a lot of really interesting developments. That's happening in her race Jen welcome back to the program. Hi Mike. Thank you so much for having me back on It's always a pleasure before we get to your campaign You're currently in the state of Florida and on Sunday We saw a record number of COVID-19 cases with more than 15,000. So what do you think is going wrong? Leadership or lack thereof. I mean we have a governor, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with Ron DeSantis, but Essentially, he's a mini Trump and in fact I think a large part of why he was put in as the governor of Florida was to deliver Florida to Trump in the election And so that's what he's working to do So whether it's forcing people to go back to work, which remember Florida is a right to work state So there's very little regard for labor in in our state And that is one of the biggest pushes I think in terms of getting people to go back is they just don't care one way or the other and to say that are We're having some thriving open economy. And in fact, it's that's delusional So we never properly shut down in the first place. So let me be clear about that Even when we shut down it wasn't it wasn't a real shutdown. It was never really enforced here It was never really taken seriously here And so to say that we've opened up is somewhat misleading because we never properly shut down So this has been mismanaged from beginning to end They certainly were not working on building up our resources and infrastructure in terms of hospital beds and ventilators During the shutdown, which was the point to flatten the curve to make us be able to handle the incoming Cases so this has been mismanaged from start to finish and we see a push from the Trump administration Betsy DeVos education's education secretary Basically threatening to withhold funding from schools if they don't reopen and at a time where Florida is surpassing other countries in terms of new cases Daily Ron DeSantis is also echoing the same sentiment from Trump's administration. He's pushing people to reopen So, I mean as a Floridian someone with children What's the sentiment that we get from people is there's got to be mass terror about sending children to school in this? It's a combination of the health fear factor of sending our kids to school And then the fact that people are still coping with that they're not getting their unemployment benefits their kids Whether they're going back to a physical school or going back to online school These people cannot be home and taking care of their kids And they're not getting any sort of help or recourse or social sick We know we have no social safety net so all these working parents They're they're damned if they do and damned if they don't so on the one hand There's people that are essentially going to be forced to send their kids back to school Because they have nothing else that they can do with their kids So it it hurts the parents in so many different ways It's not just a matter of that it's unhealthy for the kids, which it is it's not safe but it just is putting parents in this horrible position of Having to decide between their their job and their kids health and all these it's it's a disaster Yet the way that we responded to this collectively as a country. I mean, I can't even describe it It's it's honestly shocking like the response is comparable to what we'd expect from a failed state And you know, you have some governors doing an adequate job But I mean overall we're only as strong as our weakest link So if we have one single governor that's not doing a great job that endangers everyone else in the country So really it's frustrating So I want to kind of move into this discussion about your opponent Debbie Wasserman Schultz because in a position of power You'd be able to really make a difference. What do you think she's done right or wrong with regard to COVID-19? Like how would you grade her? I Don't I'm not gonna give her like an official rating, but I can tell you what she's been doing So all I have heard or seen from her is essentially just talking that it's Trump and DeSantis Trump and DeSantis They're doing everything wrong. It's Trump and DeSantis I haven't seen her proposing anything. I haven't seen her speaking out on behalf of our small businesses that are suffering I haven't seen her speaking out on behalf of the millions of unemployed people and the amount of them in our state that are just so Inadequately being able to they can't even get the resources that they are entitled to because our system is so woefully Insufficient and while I recognize those are functions of our state Government I haven't heard her saying anything about it now What she has done is she has had several forums during the COVID one was on childhood drowning One was on childhood internet predators and one was on scam artists So she's essentially been holding forums for people whose basic needs are already met Because if you're in a position where you're worried about your child on the internet That assumes you have a computer for your child to use if you're worried about your kid having drowning It's you're stuck at home with your pool So she's speaking to a very small group of people as they go through this pandemic But as to the bulk amount of working people I haven't heard her say anything And that's really disappointing. I mean this isn't necessarily surprising like anyone especially people on my podcast who knows about Debbie Wasserman Schultz like we've followed her on this show for years and There's so many things that are wrong with Debbie Wasserman Schultz I think she's probably one of the worst Democrats the most, you know special interests backed most conservative But for all of her flaws for all of the criticisms that the left rightfully has of Debbie Wasserman Schultz You know, she is taking her hubris to the next level. She's running for a leadership position Talk through this because Yeah, when I saw this I was absolutely just like shocked like I laughed. It's like how How do you have the gall to do this? Like what is she running for? She is running to be chair of Appropriations Committee, which um, you know and even forget the Forget the appearances of impropriety and all of that stuff If you just even put that aside and you just look at how she managed the DNC from a perspective of their finances And the amount of seats they lost in the country. So I'm talking just Management not even the other stuff She was it was a total failure, you know I mean they lost more than a thousand seats when she was head of the DNC They they ran themselves into the ground financially. So why would we want that person in charge of the money? Yeah, and I mean that's that's the thing It's like if you've already proven to be a failure in a position of leadership that actually has influence over democracy You shouldn't ever run for leadership again. I mean she should be lucky that she's still in Congress So it's shocking to me that she chose to run I mean, I'm sure that the predatory payday lender industry is just ecstatic about the fact that she's running for leadership But it's just it's honestly shocking now another aspect about Debbie Wasserman Schultz is Basically, what I see and you can correct me if I'm wrong is that she's kind of pretending like you don't exist You're not really there. Although She did purchase some web domains with your name Talk through this. You're the one who actually broke this story. This is insane to me Okay, so I wish you could almost demonstrate it as I'm telling you but so we only inadvertently found out about this but if you go to gen pearlman com Or gen pearlman for congress.com. They link directly to her congressional web page not a campaign page She didn't just squat on the domains because to be honest with you, you know, we're rookies So we didn't buy up all the names and so this is the kind of thing that happens I get it but it's the fact that they go to her congressional web page like her official page is my congressperson And I am still a constituent and it's just I am sure it's just this side of legal I'm sure it is and if it isn't I'm sure her hands are clean because the company is in panama that bought the domain I'm sure you're surprised to hear it's panamanian And so I'm sure she's clean, but it is so unethical To me. It's just so incredibly unethical. So yeah, it's funny. She has ghosted me But yet she relishes my name apparently Yeah, I mean, hey, if you're gonna buy the domains then that's at least A tacit admission that she knows that you exist as a human being. Why not actually be brave and debate you Um, I think that the people in, you know, florida's 23rd congressional district They deserve to see their options. But I mean, of course, this is what we see I mean, it's not necessarily shocking incumbent democrats They like to pretend as if their opponents don't exist Even if they're facing pretty serious primary challenges And this isn't the only race So, I mean, it's kind of just par for the course But that doesn't necessarily mean that we should accept it. It just it's frustrating to see the things that are being done You know firsthand, so I don't have to explain it to you Talk through a little bit about What's been going on with regard to the campaign and covet 19 because I don't think we talked since the pandemic really Got as serious as it has been and you know in a state like florida, which is really dealing with this More so than other states How has that affected campaigning because you're a grassroots candidate and you know knocking on doors This is kind of like the lifeblood of what you do and what you know activists like you do How have you been able to adapt? I mean, I'm sure that there's been some Growing pains, but I mean what's it been like to campaign in the covet era? Yeah, so there's no campaigning during a pandemic 101 type of book that has been able to sort of help a lot of these grassroots campaigns and yeah, you're right I mean grassroots campaigns We are based on canvassing and door to door and you know, that's what we're about And we were shut down for about a month and a half where we really didn't do any canvassing at all We have an incredibly great social media Presence we have been doing our emails phone banking text banking We're working on getting a mailer out this week So, you know, we're doing as best we can but a lot of those things, especially mailers are really expensive And that's something of course debbie is going to be able to be blanketing the district and she's sitting on over a million dollars Just from this cycle all corporate And so, you know, we we're hand to mouth and so it's not as easy for us But I think and we have reinitiated Socially distant canvassing. So we do have canvassers a lot of places that have vulnerable communities are just getting door hangers There's doing lit drops And then we are having canvassers that are out there with masks and gloves. We do give out sanitizers They knock on doors. They step back six feet And you know, generally just do the best they can and we're at least being able to put up yard signs We're putting up some I mean, you know, we're we're making the best of it, but you know, it's not ideal Yeah, and I will say that, you know, I'm really impressed with The way that campaigns grassroots campaigns have adapted because you know The disadvantage that you have is that you don't take corporate money But the advantage that you have is that you have this, you know grassroots enthusiasm So for that to kind of be taken away from you in a way It's really it's devastating But I think that a lot of campaigns have been able to adapt and we're still seeing progressive success in spite of that So I really am encouraged to see that What I want to ask you about is um, COVID-19 relief I'm assuming that this is going to be a thing until 2021 So Let's say you're able to beat Debbie Wasserman Schultz and you make it into congress What would you be pushing for in terms of relief? economically speaking and What would you think would be the solutions that we implement to actually stop the spread of the virus itself? This has been like I said mishandled from start to finish But I mean, you know, I was obviously much more in the thinking of payroll guarantees than unemployment I obviously would have liked to see us even if it was something like you guarantee 80 percent or whatever it was that they were able to do Was that Canada or the UK? I mean, I know that other countries are handling this infinitely better than we are But yeah, I mean, we're doing it purposefully to squash labor I have no doubt about that and the money is then being further funneled to the top 1 percent We have seen the top corporate people earning billions and billions during this pandemic as almost like It's they're they're price gouging almost it's they're really benefiting their spoils of Of something horrible and it's it's really grotesque and we're seeing it in lifetime But this needed to be everything shut down Hard shut down and dealt with and we needed to compensate people whether it was through paycheck guarantees or universal basic income That needed to happen immediately A $1,200 one-time payment is a joke. We gave what a three trillion dollar slush fund to Steve Mnuchin is our like I don't even understand how people can sit in a meeting where that's brought up and not start laughing Like I don't understand how that ever made it to a table like this is this is outrageous So I would have taken that three trillion and stuck it at the bottom and let it funnel its way to the top Yeah, you know people need that money people need that money people need a ubi right now more than ever Rich people are making off like bandits whereas, you know the poor They don't know what to do. I mean it was just the other day where CNBC released a headline That says 32 of households overall missed their july housing payment The way that we've responded to this as a country, you know, like you said It's been laughable in comparison with other countries. We've done the least for citizens. I mean, I didn't get my You know $1,200 payment into like mid-may Um, a lot of people I know still haven't received it in Oregon I'm sure it's the same where you are and a lot of people who you know, they own these small businesses They don't necessarily know how to access the funds, you know the small loans that were given to them And now we see that Nancy Pelosi's husband, you know Kanye West's business They're getting, you know, these loans that are supposed to be guaranteed for small businesses So I mean the response from our government has been laughable So to have someone like you in there to at least be one more voice would have made a tremendous difference because I mean, it really isn't that difficult I think that there wouldn't have been as much of a pushback to the shutdown If we responded adequately to people's economic suffering because I don't necessarily like I know that It was easy to kind of like poke fun at the people who were doing these protests of hey I need a haircut and that's foolish But like people who were against the shutdown I think there was a huge economic component to this and they were really suffering and they didn't know how they were Going to put food on the table Um, and it's just it's tragic to see, you know, and this isn't going to get better anytime soon And the virus is going to be with us for the foreseeable future So it's it's really grim and the one thing that I see is the silver lining is that this is kind of radicalizing people And it is leading to more progressive victories like Cara Eastman in Nebraska You know Jamal Bowman and Mondair Jones in New York and maybe Jen Perlman in Florida's 23rd congressional district against Debbie Wasserman Schultz I wanted to ask you another question About what's been happening and we're seeing the black lives matter protests take place across the country We're seeing calls to defund the police. If you were elected to congress, what do you think would be the solution that you'd push for? The first thing that is the most underlying problem with criminal justice reform And I'm talking from policing all the way to post probation is that we have a profit motive in our corrections Institutions So when you have a profit motive in something that ought not be for profit It's going to affect it from start to finish and we see that we have for profit policing and we have for profit corrections So first and foremost, we need to abolish any sort of profit motive from being in the criminal justice arena That shouldn't even be there. This is like we're the only country that has this So that is the first step. I personally support the campaign zero policing reforms Um, which to me break it down in the most easy, you know, pretty little diagram ever But we are dealing with a system that is essentially rotten. It is a white supremacist system So even though there are decent officers and there are decent officers. I know some They are still working within a system where their hands to be decent or tied behind their backs Because the system doesn't allow for there to really be decent officers Those officers end up getting fired if you're going to blow the whistle on somebody So we need to eradicate the power of the the unions in this capacity And the way to do that is to elect people that aren't on their payrolls So coincidentally, my opponent is the second highest democratic recipient of police pack money in the house next to steny hoyer and yet she will stand up at a black lives matter event and talk about You know police reform. I I don't understand how anybody can take that seriously So, I mean this to me is really the same concept of cronyism that infects every aspect of of our whole civilization at this point But we need to completely revamp how we police I don't need police Patrolling our citizens. I need them solving actual existent crimes that have occurred We have open cases backlog cases untested rape kits There is no shortage of the need for actual law enforcement What we don't need are patrols in our streets patrolling our every move in our behavior and especially in vulnerable communities That's not what we need. We need people that do mental health counseling social services Addiction counselors crisis counselors. Those are the people that need to be addressing most of these issues And then there are issues where we do need law enforcement. I mean if there's somebody that's killing people Yeah, I want that person to be taken into custody and kept incarcerated So there is a place for law enforcement We just don't need them to be patrolling us And I think that so when I my problem with when they say defund the police is I support it. I support everything that that mission stands for but I knew as soon as they said that That you are going to scare off So many people that would otherwise be supportive of this mission just by the terminology you're using So I think when you say defund the police, it scares people I think we have to demilitarize the police. I think we need to reallocate funding. So what I tell people It's kind of funny is we're not talking about making them go away We're just talking about treating them like public education has been treated, you know defunding them So they're still there. We're just not necessarily putting them at the top of the money food chain Um, but no, and I do think there's a myriad of unsolved cases. I mean, it's some crimes are less than a 20% close rate So I have no problem with allocating resources to those types of law enforcement activities Um, but them dressed up in riot gear These guys if all you have is a hammer all you see are nails These guys are going into this armed for combat. And so that's what they're going to do that needs to all go away I wanted to ask you because Debbie Wasserman Schultz She does not support Medicare for all. She's been very vocally against Medicare for all However, you know, we are seeing a lot of people lose their jobs and thus lose their employer-based health insurance We're living through a pandemic. Florida is one of the worst states Has Debbie Wasserman Schultz at all changed her position on Medicare for all even a little bit? No, not at all in fact, um She refused twice To even meet with the members of our progressive caucus that we're trying to talk to her about Medicare for all She had her toady, of course meet with them at one point, but really didn't give them the time of day She has zero Zero intention or interest in single-payer health care zero She takes money from big pharma and she takes money from the private health industry This isn't this isn't rocket science. What's infuriating about it really Is that she never misses an opportunity to drop her breast cancer survivor card on the table and and really played this sort of Like how hard it was for her and she survived breast cancer and I and i'm not negating that It's just infuriating to me that she doesn't think we're all deserving of that same health care that she got And so if you're going to really be out there as a breast cancer survivor And expecting any amount of real like camaraderie or support in that in that arena You need to maybe think about people that have breast cancer and have no health care And before this pandemic hit back in 2019 when everyone was making this argument I shouldn't say everyone but you know the corporate democrats running in the presidential primary Were saying that people love their employer-based health insurance They never responded to the fact that 68 000 americans per year were dying according to a princeton study Because they didn't have health care and that was a relatively conservative estimate But now it's got to be worse. We don't know what the numbers are But we can only anticipate that the number of people dying because they don't have health insurance Is going to increase the number of people who are uninsured is going to increase So I think that you know medicare for all to not support it was indefensible in 2019 But in 2020 i've been arguing that if you don't support it now You're just insane even like putting corruption aside because we do know that there's conflicts of interest There's donors, you know interests who are influencing debbie wasterman schultz But even in spite of that corruption if you don't support it then that's just inhumane at this point You lack human empathy and to talk about you know being a breast cancer survivor That's that's great. We're all glad that she survived breast cancer But why wouldn't you afford that same? You know possibility to other people because maybe they can't even you know get checked You know to see if they have a cancer of some sort There's no type of preventative health care for people who don't have health care So it's deeply frustrating and you know if you were elected You would be another cosponsor to the medicare for all act What are people saying in your district as you've been campaigning? I know you haven't probably been able to have much You know a person-to-person conversations maybe over the phone But what's the response that people when they hear that you support medicare for all? It's like everywhere else in the country. What 72% I'd say that our area pretty much mirrors I get I would say it's pretty close to mirroring whatever the national that percentage So most people when they are presented with it In a normal manner and not in a way where do you want to lose your insurance? You're gonna lose your insurance, you know when when you when you present it to people as a fact-based scenario Uh, you've got like I would say close to three quarters I would say close to three quarters of people Support medicare for all and yet our employee Our employee does not see fit to give us what we want Even though She gets that health care So we pay for it for her to have it, but she doesn't think we can have it How people do not feel inspired to pick up pitchforks at this point. I don't understand I won't even debate medicare for all anymore with anybody. I just won't I'm not That is now in the ways with flat earthers or creationists or It's with the people that don't even warrant a response anymore. I am so done with it. It's just it's ridiculous at this point I'm really glad you said that because I totally agree Like we're beyond the point of selling and debating medicare for all We know it's the best option. Uh medical experts have endorsed medicare for all, uh, you know I just shared an article to joe biden on twitter from physicians for a national health program Now it's just a matter of give it to us. We want it and especially now during a pandemic I think that our arguments make sense to where it's not even an argument It's just common sense now. It's just a matter of one will congress and you know Governing government in the united states actually give the people what we need and want So yeah, I'm glad that you said that because it really is it takes a level of delusion That is comparable to that of flat earthers and other conspiracy theorists to think that medicare for all isn't the option I mean, you're either lying to yourself or lying to everyone else It's a distinction without a difference at this point, but either way It's not acceptable and anyone who doesn't support medicare for all they've got to go. They're just okay with people dying Like that's basically what it comes down to you're okay with people dying If they don't have health care and that's completely unacceptable Especially if you are from the democratic party and you claim to have the moral high ground as debbie waserman schultz does Which is a joke, but I mean nonetheless. She still claims it. Uh, so I mean anyone who's watching this They are convinced like we're all rooting for you on this program So what can we do especially now to make sure that you know, your election is a success and one does that primary take place? So our primary is august 18th But the most important factor is that because we live in closed primaries Everybody has to be registered as a democrat by july 20th, which is obviously coming up. You can do that through our website We have the link. You can also request a vote by mail. That's at gen 2020.com So we are encouraging people to request their mail-in ballot just I Have every reason to believe that they are going to play games and there's going to be nonsense And they're going to close polling locations and they're going to infrant disenfranchise voters I and even if it weren't intentional and even if it's just based on covet even if it's just You know, it's not always nefarious. Sometimes it's incompetence. It could be both I don't know but I know that we need to be prepared for it and the way to do that is to request a mail-in So I want everybody to request your mail-in ballot. You make sure you're registered as a democrat Follow us on social media. I'm at gen f l 23 on twitter and instagram We're at gen 2020 on facebook and if anybody wants to we still need money We are fighting a corporate monolith. We need volunteers for phone banking, which can all be done in our website And you know anybody who lives in our district if you will host a yard sign Send me an email gen at gen 2020.com. If you live in Our district, please go on to debbie wasserman schulte's Page and leave a comment as to that you don't like my name being appropriated and directed to her congressional page Only constituents can even leave a comment for her So you can't even email her if you want to just can't you have to live in our district So, uh, yeah, these are the kinds of things that we need we need people to sort of, you know, recognize that This is the nonsense and the shenanigans like as if she wasn't already advantaged being the incumbent. She had to steal my name Yeah, it's comical and i'm glad that you brought up the point about voter suppression because it's real And i want people to really, you know, arm themselves with information and take precautions because voter suppression is a thing Um everywhere It's not just something that happens in red states It happens in blue districts because incumbents will do everything they'll fight dirty to make sure that they cling to power Um, so you have to make sure that you protect yourself. So, um, Jen, we're rooting for you Hopefully the next time that I talk to you you will be a member of congress Wouldn't that be weird? It would be so weird You know, we went into this knowing where the look we know where the long shot We know that it's an uphill battle like we're not delusional people Um, but I do feel like if we had a really fair system and you and I both know that That's just not the way that this really works whether it's being ghosted by the media Or the polling places in my most popular communities. Oh, well, those will be the ones that are closed I mean, we know how this goes and I do really feel that if this were a fair fight that it would be a no-brainer I do I feel that if she and I stood on a debate stage and actually people had to watch it and everybody saw it I think it would be a done deal. So we know that it's not a fair fight So, you know, we need all the help we can get so thank you so much for having us on Yeah, absolutely anytime I think you're running a fantastic campaign and I love that you're actually challenging and incumbent and you know, you're not you're not backing down You acknowledge that they're gonna play dirty and you try to operate, you know with that in mind and prepare yourself and you know Kind of overcorrect. What's going to be done because I mean like I agree with you if this were a fair fight I don't even think it'd be a con like you would win by a landslide But it's not so, you know, you have to like all the votes that you'd lose because of voter suppression You have to like find more votes, you know to make up for that and it's frustrating But it's the reality We just have to keep, you know chipping away at it and make sure that people like you get elected So we can actually change the system and just make it more democratic aside from the policy elements. I mean just Emboldening or enhancing I should say democracy in and of itself would make a huge difference So Jen, thank you for fighting. Thank you for running. Um, we're all rooting for you Thank you. Thank you so much