 I'm glad that we are focusing on what really is important. We're talking about women and national performance, generally, not necessarily just politics. Our country suboptimizes in many ways. This is why the potential that we have, the dream of the founding fathers, is significantly, I'm just thinking, right now, in the UK Parliament, for half of them have Nigerian parents. Almost all of them are women, I believe, or in fact all of them are women. She has very few women in its parliament. Rwanda does so much better than Nigeria in that regard. I've been on quite a bit, several and a number of committees at the continental level. And whenever I sit on these panels, the woman sitting by me is a minister from Rwanda. There's one young woman who's minister for trade and investment. Each time I talk to her, she's a nice, smart woman. But I think I can find 500 like her that I know in Nigeria. So why are we not feeling those ones? Our country definitely is hurting itself by not providing opportunity to these women who can take us to higher levels. I want to find out why and what we must do to change this. And we thought through these in the writing up of the manifesto of the Obidachi Thrust. However, I want to operationalize these manifestos. This is why we're having this telethon. They bring people of ideas to look at what we have proposed and say to us, these are better ways of implementing so that we can deepen and ensure that our country gets the benefit that it deserves. So it can be lifted up from where it is. I got Barista Boma Alabi, senior advocate of Nigeria and the one and only Owa Osa Obo, a very, very distinguished management consultant and investment. They say, Guru, they call them these days or Guru. I don't know which one in it. But what should we be doing? I'm sorry I'm saying that. You are an understanding attorney in the UK before you return to Nigeria and you've done a remarkable job of work since you returned. Why is it that the past is more open for women, Nigerian women who live in this country? Unfortunately, there is for them in our country. What should we be doing about it? Well, thank you first of all for inviting me here. I think it's so important that we have a level playing field. The way our society works makes it very difficult for women to participate because it's a patriarchal society. Women are expected to be the caregivers at home, not just the immediate family, but also to the extended family. A woman who's out and about at a certain hour of the day or night is viewed with some sort of moral judgment. Why are you out at this time? Why are you not in your husband's house? These are some of the societal norms and behaviour that keep women back. There are very few women who are willing to go against that trend and be labelled regardless. The few of us who do that will rise to the top of wherever we happen to be involved in because you don't give a toss about what anybody says or thinks. But you shouldn't have to be in that position where you have to think regardless of what they say, I know who I am and I'm going to have to do what I have to do. That's why I said at the very start we need a level playing field. When men are out there working and networking and doing what they have to do in order to get to the top of their game, that is, they're not judged in the way women are. So that's a starting point. What do you think that I find really annoying? It's when you go to graduations in Nigeria, they begin first class, they'll go through the list of first class and they're all probably all women. Can we go through second class offers? We have to go through second class offers. Graduates, they mentioned one young man, and he hopelessly wrote, Paranadi man! And then five years later, you can find those young women. And these also run boys in 2-2 third class senior managers and this and this and this. What are the things we need to do to change that kind of trajectory? What? Prof, what you just, the analogy you gave, if you had asked me a question that was generic, that's where I was going to start from. The fact that, I mean, data has shown that girls do so well. In school, then something happens. You know, five, six years after graduation, they just vanish of the reader, you know. And in some ways, they actually vanish figuratively as well. And I think it ties to what Boma was talking about. Because when you don't find a place for yourself, when society has molded you to think about your role as a support and not as a primary asset, or resource for society, you do lose something. You do lose something. And I do think that to turn the, you know, to reverse, you know, this trend that we see, a lot has to come from the woman, the female. I think increasingly we are beginning to see female role models having a voice, making a difference. Fathers today treat their daughters different than fathers in the past treated their daughters. They are more keen to empower and build a certain degree of confidence in their daughters that even their wives may not have had. So in many ways, I do see a future that will be brighter. But I think that biologically, emotionally, there are various reasons why it may be easier for a woman to default to the home-giver-care-giver role. Because by nature, we are nurturing. And, you know, if by nature you are nurturing, the tendency is that when there's a need, when your child or daughter, your son or daughter has a need, when your husband has a need, you tend to be the one who tries to compensate and give, where the man is more, you know, oriented towards his career. So I do think that over and above the kinds of empowerment and the kind of role models that society is beginning to produce, a lot will have to do with the female herself. And I think more orientation, more encouragement for females to take their destiny into their hands and to be that thing they envision themselves to be, you know, when they were making the first classes and the second class uppers. I think those are the kinds of things that will make women come out of what I think is still some, you know, sort of shell, whether it's self-imposed or societal impulse. If I may add to that, because beyond what a woman can do, we talked about the society and where it places us, which is part of why we're in this shell, we should ensure that in every organization, no matter how small, there should be a diversity and equality policy, and that should then be implemented. Yeah, but why would? I mean, I could give a personal example. I have a daughter who's graduating in a few weeks from my V-League University. Why would I, after investing that kind of money, not want her to get the best work and offer? Why would Nigerian parents, and it's changing, like was said, why would fathers not feel it a duty to ensure that the best opportunity comes to them? And I have the indicator too, I think online. Is she there? Are you there? Okay, please. We're in on this conversation. You are younger than these two ladies sitting here with me. What's your experience of this phenomenon and what do you think we should be doing? Well, I mean, younger and privileged to be on the same panel with them. Please, need I add. I'm really, really proud to see women like this. I'm pretty sure that they have faced, you know, a tougher battle. And, you know, at 33, I would say, they would look at me and say, my daughter, you're just starting. I know that's what they refer to me as, because I've seen things, but I don't think I've seen on the level they have seen. But, you know, this thing is, you know, you were talking about seeing those young women who did the first class or had, you know, two, one, and then we are there now. But I remember talking about in my career how I have to put in 10 times the effort for half the recognition or even less than half. And it's really that difficult. I've been in politics. I'm now 33. You know, this year will make it 10 years that I've been in political space. I have served very well in the political space, you know. And what I would still notice, I remember in the past party I was in before we came to Labour Party because of our support for people, what had happened was I remember sharing this stage with the Ghanaian president once. And, you know, I had just spoken at this event and the Ghanaian president was there, Yaqubu Gawan, and all of these people. And, you know, there was all talks of how, when I did and oh, who is this young girl. And later in that evening, I had a meeting with the publicity secretary of the party and other young men. And he was talking about the new faces of the party. And then he makes reference, you know, he tells the young men there that, oh, you know, all of us here are here to represent the party because these are the bright new faces and all of that. And then he tells them, you know, the party needs conversations or military, they need the party needs conversation on the economy, you know, spending all of these things, insecurity, all of that. And then he talks to me and say, and you know, when it's time to talk about gender, we'll call you. And that is the box I have to struggle to come out of so much. And it happens with so many young women. You know, we have this box that we have to come out of. We work so hard, but we keep getting put in the box, keep getting put in the box. And I think that, you know, the conversation my older aunties are talking about with respect to this, creating these quotas and this system where you have to employ women, you have to set aside seats or offices where, you know, these quotas must be filled by women is necessary. And I dare say, you know what? It's not, it's not so much the thing that you say, where are the qualified women? Look around you right now, there are qualified women everywhere. It's not a new phenomenon. And I will step forward to also say that if we are looking at where are the qualified people, you know, I don't necessarily think that within the Nigerian system, a lot of men who have gotten into spaces have been qualified. So that conversation always comes up when it's time for disadvantaged groups to get included. And then they start talking about where are the qualified ones? We can't see them. We can't see them. We are everywhere, but we keep getting marginalized. So I think the biggest step that can be done for women's participation, for men in governance, women in key places, is we have to set aside this quota. And this quota is deserved. This quota is deserving. It's not because we just want to put women there. If you are looking for women who are up to the task, there are women up to the task everywhere, especially in Nigeria. It is about time. Thank you. Yeah. Just staying with you for one minute. The Bobindati Revolution has been significantly about young people and women. The Bobindati movement has been driven significantly by young people and by women. Yes. There is... I mean, when the candidate Peter Obie met with US Assistant Secretary of State for Africa Fee in Washington, the group, three women, three men, himself, myself, one other man, and three of you women. And they actually directly remarked that the last presidential candidate from Nigeria that showed up there came with 17 men. Here we have three men, three women, meeting with them. So clearly this is a new direction. Yes. If you had to demand something of an Obindati government in terms of affirmative action to get women into positions of public authority, what kinds of things would you suggest should be done? I would say, I mean, I want to be selfish. Left to me. I mean, the other women might be more sensible than I am. But left to me, I would want to be 5% of women in this space. These are less men. Because you people have had your time. But I'll be kind of reasonable. And so let's stick with your reasons. I think that for a quota we can start with 35% of affirmative action. And that 35% of affirmative action is key to point this. 35% of affirmative action does not say, oh, you must put 35% of women. No, it says there are no gender. Because when women are thinking of these things, women tend to think of everyone. We're really the selfless gender here. We tend to think of everyone. And we say, you know what? In no time in the nearest future in Nigeria should any gender have less than 35% representation. And I think that is key. Within the executive, the request would be that women should not have less. You don't have to pick it at 35%. Women should not have less than 35% in any office that you are pointing people into. And like I said, like these women who are sitting with you there, you know, Professor Pat, that there are enough women who are going to enter into these positions. So we don't want less than 35%. We want over. We can do 50. We can do 70. We can even do 100. But we do not want to go less than 35%. So that is for that. Now, there is also a bill that has been sitting in the National Assembly. And I know that that bill tends to be controversial. But we have seen how systems like this work in other countries. For example, Kenya. Kenya has the special seats bill. And Nigeria has had that. The 111 special seats that has been sought in the National Assembly. And that keeps getting kicked out. Oh, they say, oh, how are we going to spend? How are we going to pay these people and all of that? It's not the money that's the problem. It's the representation that is key. And with places like Kenya, we've seen that when you put women, when you give these quotas, people are able to stand. Disadvantaged groups are able to stand on these quotas and then project more. So right now, Kenya has six women governors. There are regions in Kenya there. And you can point to people like Susan Kihika and the rest. You can point to the growth they have had from the National Assembly all the way into becoming governors of these countries. These things work. You look at the National Assembly of Kenya, right? Now, the number of women who are serving there have greatly increased. These quotas are important. And I feel that the president himself championing this bill, not leaving it for just women to, you know, women in National Assembly to keep suffering alone. The executive has an amount of influence that they can wield. And we're not saying you have to cost them, but you have influence. You can't come to the table with legislators and explain to them how important this bill is. This is very important. So the 111 special seats, then there's the gender and equal opportunities that is still sitting. It keeps getting thrown out. We want to see that these things are the forefront of national conversation. I sit on the intersection between women and youth. I'm 33 years old. So far, the youngest presidential campaign spokesperson to ever happen in Nigeria. And I understand what this means and what this position means and what it has also done. That representation helps to bring so many more people to be interested in these spaces. So when we keep saying that we are the women, the women also need to see more women like them. We know the ripple effect of women like Ongozeo Conjurewela, women like OBS in leadership positions, and what that has been able to do. You look back at that and look at so many more young women entering into political spaces and saying, I want to be like this woman. I want to be like that woman. These things have ripple effects. So we want to see more women. And we don't want them in quiet roles. We want them in key positions. We want them in spaces where they can be seen and heard, because there's only two of these women to see that ripple effect coming forward. And I think that is the number one thing we want to see from this government. And also, apart from giving us these positions, we also need to see that this government is in tune with making sure that these laws help with the rights of women in Nigeria. Because the more we keep asking, where are they? So many things keep Nigerian women from participating. And we need so many more women in these spaces. We do have a sizable number. If you want to appoint, if you want to employ, there's so many women, but we need more. And one of the major things standing between Nigerian women is our laws. One of the major things standing between Nigerian women is our customs, our culture, and the religious things that we rely on to stop women from growing in their various spaces. And we need to look into this. So it would be really great that when the executive comes in, when the big government comes in, that the government itself champions this and does not leave it for the few women legislators. And when we say few, I mean few, representation of women in the national assembly. So when women even bring these bills, it doesn't stand a chance. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I am one of those who actually believe in affirmative action. I think the impact of Thomas Kingsley's 1948 book, Representative Bureaucracy, Influenced on Me for more than 30, 40 years, is a recognition that affirmative action can work for the good of all, but that we keep abusing how we implement such programs sometimes around the world. Now, if we had to use affirmative action to insist that women, clearly Beijing came up with the target of 35, or 33, or 35%, that was suggested. I would personally and if I had to form a cabinet, I would be very pleased with the 50-50 share in a cabinet. However, I do recognize that women have far less experience because they've not been given more exposure, so perhaps aggressively I would go for a 40% that list to start with. But as things move up, it should ratchet up. There's no reason why we cannot have 50-50 cabinets and assembly members and so on and so forth. If a new government wants to change things dramatically in that regard, what kind of support initiatives, besides just a law or order that should be 40, 60, or whatever ratio, what are the support things that could be doing to make those who come in feel comfortable in those positions feel empowered, feel that this is what they should be doing instead of just a privileged bunch who are pushed into positions, what kind of support systems should a government be putting in place? I'd like to address the issue of the affirmative action, probably in a contrary manner. In the area of politics and governance, I think it has to be progressive. I don't believe it ought to be by fiat. I think that there are enough good women out there who can be identified and showcased during elections. But more importantly, it's when the appointments are being made. I think the last speaker talked about that earlier. She's one of the super women globally, frankly. When she assumed the head of the WTO, you could see the celebration all over the world, not just from Africa, which is an acknowledgement of her worth as an individual before she's a woman. And I do think that if a government politics aside, just in terms of appointments, looks at key positions and picks the very best women that are available and puts them in those positions, the narrative around politics will change. It's a psychological barrier. It's like the speed barrier, the sound barrier or whatever. Once you break through it, once you show that there's a critical mass of women, forget whatever hormones you think is sailing around in their bodies. They're able to deliver the goods. They'll be more respect for women as appointees and ultimately into elected offices. Let me talk about the private sector. I am wary of interventions again in a market space. I do believe that that's an area that ought to be left to progress in line with its own self-interests. Because once you are driven by market economic ideologies you will make the decisions that are best for you. But when organizations begin to see that women's voices and let me talk about the marketplace when you look at entry level I don't think you see that much disparity in percentages between male and female. When you look at the middle level, I dare say that at least in the places I have worked in, it hasn't been on the average about the same. It could be 45 percent, 55 one way or the other. But on the average the problem really is at the top. Glass ceiling. And that's what we need to work on dealing with and breaking. But I think increasingly organizations are beginning to see that when you have a qualified woman they are in net quality. She brings the conversation that men cannot even fathom. And in a society that is increasingly becoming inclusive where things have been democratized suddenly the inclusive voice of the female is a voice that society tends to respond to. Not the kind of command control attitude, the alpha male type of syndrome which you expect to see in a lot of these organizations. So even for business, just for the survival, the success the differentiation of a business there is a strong case to be made for having women have a very very strong voice at the top. And let me make the final statement and this is a really a plea. I see a lot of men just proff like you said when you said you know my daughter why won't I expect her to you know. It's funny how men who have daughters in the workplace see other women and are not as accommodating as you would expect when it comes to those top positions. Innately there is something about the boys club which I think is a preferred default for a lot of men so when you look around yourself what you want to see is people who look like you and probably talk like you but you won't encourage your daughter obviously but how about encouraging the other women and understanding that this is a challenge we've all got to take up an address. That's a very valid point to make but if you look at an organization that is servicing a whole customer group and a lot of people who pay the money to buy things are women you would expect that in its own interest you would want the people making those decisions to think like the consumers that are setting to so there is a rational reason to actually expect women to rise first time the kinds of organizations that are setting to a population that is significantly female however you find sometimes that there is this whole boys club thing that needs to be broken either by formal governance in organizations and many times actually we are the nature of our culture has made the best qualified people women for a long time I used to make the point that the best bankers in Nigeria were female for a very simple reason that in the early days of banking growth the young men who got into banking were rushing to take opportunities as the banking industry was expanding so a young man enters as an officer today several years later he has reached GM he has gone through five banks where he doesn't know anything about banking and I used to say publicly that my favorite treasure in banking was because she didn't feel those pressures that those men felt to go up and down she stayed at city bank and simply left banking so I would think that it should not be a surprise that people who are emerging as CEOs in banking today would be female so I think that governance needs to play an important role for the private sector in that regard however in the public sector again because populations matter and that's the whole concept of representative bureaucracy and those who make decisions should reflect those that are making decisions for a lot more women out to be considered in terms of the value of public choice so what do you think we should be doing to provide support just in case they are not even enough let's say ready women for certain kinds of positions what kind of support can be number one it's just impossible that I would not be enough ready women women's rights are human rights full stop we all start in the same schools we beat the boys in class nobody talks about your sex at that time until something you get second school and you become a woman and suddenly become a lesser person as a result so that there are ready women there are enough of us to fill those positions if I were president of Nigeria today right first things first I have executive powers I appoint my ministers don't I it will be 50-50 that's a decision I make yes it has to be from the six states and the FCT trying sufficient capable men and women from all of those states so number one number two government policy again you don't need law per se local content started with a policy before eventually evolved into a law so I can give preference to companies that put diversity at the forefront and have equal and fair representation in accordance with our constitution and those companies would get priority in procurement and other things that will lead the market in the right direction it's happening in other countries why can't it happen here Rwanda had a policy of 50-50 and they filled Beijing 35% was just a start not meant to be where we stop and if we haven't started in all these years then we should not be talking 35% I do agree with you actually part of the problem I have seen watching the scene for years is that many organizations do not affirmatively deal with the things that slow women down I give a simple example childbirth many women have to take time off work to go and raise family at the point even in the UK one of the biggest challenges in the UK is that female doctors by the time they go out and have their two children raise them to level and come back to work they literally have to be retrained as doctors so the average female doctor costs the system a lot more than the average male doctor but people have been made to compensate for that because there are organizations that have policies that when you take that time out to speak to go and raise the children there are things that are affirmative that goes on that helps with your continuous retraining while you're away from the workplace so that when you're ready to come back you don't really lose seniority and stuff like that in my profession, so I had the privilege of practicing law in England and here we found exactly what she said women are entering at the same level and then six, seven years down the line they go off to have children they return and they find that they've been left behind they find that the way of working is no longer compatible with this new lifestyle of looking after a little child and they drop out the organizations are throwing their hands up in the air I'm wondering why they're dropping out and not understanding that they have to support so what sort of support did we ask for and campaign for and that is making a big change now flexible working we're professionals we can be trusted to work and deliver not nine to five which is the old industrial age style of working but working with technology therefore I can start work at 7am do all my drafting take my child off to school return see clients go back to the school run give that child something to eat start again at 4pm or 6pm and still do a full day's work once that became recognized by the law firms that flexible working is not part-time working retention went through the roof that's a real life example of what organizations can do to support retain women so that the system both the public and private system can recognize these things and create the atmosphere that will facilitate the talents that in our women continue to contribute to the growth and development of our country fortunately time is out so the points that you've made are very very important and hopefully will guide policy and I hope that Peter will be on that listening very very carefully and that he will do the things that will make a difference thank you all thank you