 You're welcome back. It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Remember that we did say that the movement for the survival of the Oguni people, otherwise known as Mosov, has unleashed the misappropriation of over 800 million dollars meant for the cleanup of Oguni polluted land. Mosov urged President Tinobu to immediately set up a panel to probe the mismanagement of the said fund calling for the immediate dissolution of all governing structures of the project. Now who was given the project? How was it monitored? What is the state of this project? What can be done to make sure that these people, perpetrators of these acts, if it is true, are brought to book? We have a guest that will be talking to us on the issue, and he is Dr. Law Mefo, a political analyst. Good morning and welcome to the program. Thank you. Good morning, my brother. Thank you for hosting me. Okay, 800 million dollars is quite a lump sum. Now the Mosov is saying that it was misappropriated. Let's first of all get your comment on that. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the allegation is true. Because the entire interventions we have had in the major delta generally since 1999 have not really yielded the desired results. If you look at what has been happening in a place like NNBC, you would get to see that what they are also alleging that has happened in the cleanup exercise may not be far from the truth. And you see the amount in question is quite enormous. And if you recall, President Muhammad Buhari has in 10 words, he signed into this cleanup exercise very early in his administration. One year into his administration, he was committed to it and funds have been released. But the information we get from that soon doesn't suggest that much is being done to justify the amount of money that has been released. So I think the call made there by the President of Mosov, Mr. Asuke, I think the call is important. I may not agree totally with them. They call for the dissolution of all the structures of that hydrocarbon remediation project. Because when he said dissolution, after the proof that you are calling for, you now go back to reconstitute, you don't, what you need to do is to suspend a further spending. And what that means is that the structure as already constituted should be there while the funds are approved. It's important to know where the money has gone to. And if any work has been done at all, it's really converging to the amount of money released to that effect. I believe this is important. And if you look at it, it goes even beyond the hydrocarbon remediation agency, otherwise better known as the Okoni Cleanup Project. I think it's something that should worry everybody. Because if you read down the press statement issued by Mr. Asuke, the President of Mosov, you will see that he also talked about an additional $180 billion that was released in just three weeks to the end of expiration of the presidency of Muhammad Boulary. You'll recall that in the last three weeks of the Muhammad Boulary presidency, there was a kind of frenzy to award contracts as if there would be no tomorrow. So much frenzy all over the place. It became a kind of a contracted bazaar. And we saw some of the top officials of the Boulary administration. Some of them, like the former minister of work and housing, saying that the awarding contract to the very last minute of the administration was justified. Well, it can be justified, but we need to see the urgency. Such an award coming in the twilight of the administration should bother on emergency. But I didn't see any emergency in such an award. In other words, it was just a mentor for settlement to take care of some people. What you may call, should we say, retirement benefits. Trying to settle some people that worked in that administration. That is how I see this. If you take it from that perspective, you will see that what Mr. Ansuke said has a lot of merit in it. And if you also recall the origin and justification, possibly, of what you call the Niger Delta militancy, right from the years of San Juan to the present day, we all know that the neglect of the entire Niger Delta was at the heart of the reason why you have the militancy. You know, really disrupting economic activities, not only in that region, but in the whole country. Now, if you look at the fact that there has been serious neglect, the question is, are we saying that Nigeria as a country has not done anything at all to take care of the Niger Delta as the goose that lays the golden egg. I don't think it would be right to say that the Nigerian nation has not done anything substantial to really address the problem of the region. If you look at the various bodies put in place to deal with the peculiarities of the Niger Delta and of course environmental degradation, occasionally from crude oil exploration in the region. Right from Ompadek, if there was even a body before Ompadek, one more board, I can't remember the full name now. From Ompadek, you now have an NNPC and all that. Go and check their records of delivery. You will see, you know, you will see the trillions popped into the region without much to show for it. Because we expect that such a trillions should be addressing the question of life in the Niger Delta after oil. Yeah, Mr. Befo, just a moment. I agree with you that the country has done a lot for the region, the Niger Delta region. We've seen humongous amounts of money being spent on the Niger Delta region. So if money is not the problem, where is our problem lying? Where are we getting it wrong? We cannot continue spending so much money and not getting results. Why do you think these results are not coming? You see, first and foremost, you have what you call elite conspiracy. Nigerian and political elites could be the worst that could be found anywhere in the world. They are so corrupt, they are not interested in common good as does the Gospel truth. Because if you go to Niger Delta, the leadership is often spearheaded by people from the region. You know, the MD chairman of the board and all that, you know, even the Ministry of Niger Delta has also been led by Niger Delta people. So you expect that they should be able to see this as their own, their own project, their own problem. They really stand in the gap on behalf of their people. But this is not what you see. So you can see that embedded corruption in our system is, you know, the foundation of the problem we're having in not only in the Niger Delta region, but the entire country, you know, corruption, lack of accountability, impunity. People hijack common resources. People hijack it because they know that nothing will happen. There is a document I don't know if you have seen. The document was recently released by Femi Falana, senior advocate of Nigeria. He pointed, he explained, he was able to excavate minimum of 23 areas where money has either been stolen, you know, mismanaged, you know, things like that. The document is out there. If you haven't seen it, I'll forward it to you after this program. And, you know, he pointed out, you know, these areas and NNDC or Niger Delta misappropriation is one of them. So it's not even treated in isolation. They call for proof of what has happened to open a cleanup. It's not even enough. It should be extended to the entire 23 areas identified by the senior advocate of Nigeria. Take for instance what has happened to NNPC. They were involved in what you call crude swap. They were given a refinance, crude, and in turn, they are taking a foil from them in exchange for the crude they have given. Yet Nigeria is committing over $10 trillion to first subsidy. So what happened? If you give your product in trade by butter, is money still involved? So you discover that it's not just the Niger Delta. What has happened in Niger Delta or going to clean up? Yes, they can start. The president can start from there. But he has to extend it to the entire 23 areas identified by the senior advocate of Nigeria, Femme Falana. And it's very simple. Doesn't invite international forensic auditors and they will give you a clear picture of what has happened. Very simple. But again remember that NNDC was subjected to the same international forensic audit about two years ago. Where is the report? So there are no consequences for actions in Nigeria. Where is the report? The former president sat on it. He did not implement it until he left. So you have a problem in Nigeria. The problem is corruption and corruption is a byproduct of impurity, lack of accountability. What I mean by lack of accountability is that people get away with almost everything. The laws are there but nobody is implementing those laws. Nobody is enforcing those laws. Nigeria has some of the best policies, some of the best laws you can find anywhere in the world. So it's not absence of regulation. It's not absence of laws, it's absence of regulation, absence of enforcement. And who would lead the enforcement? The president of the country. I get an example of the forensic audit of NNDC. Ordinarily the Oguni cleanup should be part of the responsibility of NNDC. But they didn't do it. Then we had to bring in a specially proposed vehicle which they called the hydrocarbon remediation project. Yes, he brought that in very, very noble patriotic intervention. But you released money and nobody is made to account for the money that has been released for such project. So even the NNDC forensic audit that is more than two years old now has not been implemented. What is the guarantee that the hydrocarbon remediation project will see the light of the day? Because we have a new president and who is confronted by new circumstances. Maybe things will be different. Look at the way the president abruptly removed the first subsidy. Why did he do that? He did that because he met an empty well. The coffers were completely empty. Nothing. So there was no way he could even contemplate proceeding for a month or two in implementing for the first subsidy removal. So you can see that between the rock and the hard place, it's a very terrible situation. And the president needs to understand that the solution to the national safety problem is not transferring the body. This body to Nigerian masses who are not only suffering from dining droves. It is really taking the battle to be a list that stole premiums from Nigeria. Use your calculator and convert 800 million to Niger in a current exchange rate. If you go, it will give you a surprise if your calculator is able to carry it. But nobody is saying anything about it. The 180 billion released three weeks to the aspiration of the president. Nobody knows what has happened to that. For some people, it is their own settlement. It is their own severance allowance. That is how it is said in public studies. They have to find a way to bring out the money. I had it back to people. Just a moment. You've mentioned some of the solutions the way you think. From this story of the hydrocarbon pollution remediation project, which they're calling higher up, we hear that 200 million could not be accounted for. But you give a solution that one of the things that the president or the government needs to do is maybe bring in forensic auditors from somewhere else to come and do that. But do you think the present administration will have the will to do something like that? Will they implement it? Do they trust foreign bodies that come to do forensic audit of anything? Because just a few hours ago, let me call it a few hours ago, we heard the EU report about the INEC. And instead of the government, as a lot of people expected them to do, to say, OK, we see that some of the areas our electoral body may not have done well, we'll see how we can improve on it. But they condemned that report outrightly, that the EU was just doing a lazy man's dex job and they didn't have any information. And the election was the freest and the fairest and the best election ever in the country. Do you think an administration like that will believe what forensic auditors will say, no matter where they come from, because they don't seem to trust anything that is not remotely beneficial to the present administration? Yeah, it is a pathetic and very, very pathetic the picture you have painted. You see, I recall in 2007, when Omar Rumosaier Agua was elected president, he repeated the election that brought him the power. He said that the election was a seriously flawed and set up the wise committee to do some work to ensure a proper election in Nigeria. You know, that's a gentleman. But he compared to what Tinnabu and his team are doing at the moment. It becomes something of the opposite, because I read the EU report and I didn't see anything new. For the EU report, the saying is what we have all known. There is no nothing new. It is not only the position of the EU. There has been the position of all the international observers. Maybe the EU went a little further to identify some specifics and then offer remedies. Look, Nigerians need to understand that EU has every right to be interested in a dis-election, and they committed $49 million to this project. That runs into billions when converted to Niger. So if you could take money from them to organize an election in Nigeria, then you owe them explanation as regards to what happened to the project that they invested in. That is the justification of their, should I say, in caution. I wouldn't even say it is in caution because they committed to the project 2023 General Elections in Nigeria, and therefore they deserve to know what really happened. And they sent in observers, up to 50 of them, and they saw things firsthand for themselves. So yes, INEC spotted off very well. PIVAS did a great job of identification, verification, and all that. But at the same INEC refused to upload presidential dis-election results. Despite uploading Senate and House of Representatives results, that took place, got collected at the same time, the same poll unit. So if you say that Senate work, House of Representatives work, and the presidential election couldn't be uploaded, something becomes efficient, even if it is true. Because it is the same portal, it is the same election, it is the same collation from moment and time. It does that you have three results sheets, and the three results sheets out of the three upload it too. The other one did not work. Let's go back, let me summarize. That's briefly, yes. My summary is this, you see, people also have much choice. That's a fact. It doesn't have much choice because Nigeria is broke. Let's put it that way. And all he is doing now is to tax Nigerians. You remove first subsidy. You remove subsidy on electricity. You want those to pay 7.5% on that. Everything, we consume, we have the 7.5%. It's not stuck in there. The administration is imposing more and more tax. Even the proof of ownership that you do once and for all, you don't have to do it annually. You can see that the government has projected that they will make over 20 billion out of that. You can see that the government rather than approach, rather than face the source that has taken trillions out of the treasury, they are trying to transfer the body to the Nigerian masses. But again, if you want to do a foreign security, if nobody in Nigeria would give you proper foreign security because corruption has eaten into everything. Tilbo has no choice. He has to bring in external forensic auditors and should develop the political will to side with the masses and implement the outcomes of such a forensic audit and their interpretations. Okay, well, that would be a good way to keep it. If we keep talking about this thing, a day will not be enough for us. Thank you, Dr. Mehfo, for coming on the program this morning. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for hosting me. Dr. Mehfo is a political analyst and he was speaking with us or talking with us on the mismanagement, the alleged mismanagement of $800 million cleanup fund as complained by Mossub. We'll take a short break and we'll be back in a moment. Stay with us.