 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. Do you have a big family? Um, I would say I've got a lot of half brothers around, half brothers, half sisters, my dad was... Shaga? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was active basically. First day I signed my deal, one of my uncles came to my house and he started going through my trainers, isn't it? And he's like, what can I have these trainers? He's pointing at like my lubes and I said, nah. And I was like, you can have them some Adidas trainers. He's like, nah, I want the lubes. And I was like, no. And then he sat down. He's like, yo, I've got this business idea. I've never, um, I haven't seen him in like 10 years before this. And then he's just like, yeah, I've got this business idea. Can you give me 30,000? I was like, a lot of my team, I had to let him go. Do you get what I'm saying? We had problems behind the scene. And it's like, I've been helping people like, I've got a soft heart in it. Like I've had friends that I've tried to bring along the way and help like catch up because I'd rather employ my friends than employ some stranger from the industry. Do you get what I'm saying? And then at the same time, it's like the same care that I'm giving out to people. I'm not receiving. Do you get what I'm saying? Cause obviously I had my own stresses throughout the year. Like, like, yo, um, what's happening next? Like, where's the, um, where do we go next? And like, I'm having like my nervous breakdowns. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm like, what's going on? And the people that I thought would be there weren't there. Boom, we're on. How are we, brother? Today's guest, we've got, how hard the caprio. How are we? I'm good, man. I'm good. Can't complain. I told you a bit bored, but you make it work. Good to see you. Good to see you, bro. Flying mate, top 10 single last year. Top three pops. Yeah. Names everywhere. Trying to do my bit, you know? One step at a time. How's life been? Um, recently, like I said, it's just, you know, lockdown, tier four has been a bit boring. You see, I've done like my project. I've been working on my project. On my end, it's finished now. That's, that signed and sealed just needs to be delivered. Um, so now I'm just kind of just at home, you know, I'm watching movies, bro. Just bare Netflix. I'm watching the office and that Bojack Horseman just bare random stuff. Just trying to pass the time. Just trying to pass the time. Jogging the morning and that got to stay fit. That's about it. Yeah. Yeah. You've had that very interesting life as well. You know, you're not just people might just see as a rapper or a singer, a musician. You've also got a degree. You've also come from, is it Sierra Leone? Um, Sierra Leone. Yeah. Yeah. So I always go back to the start of my guest, brother. Kinda where you grew up and how it all began. Um, so I was born in Sierra Leone. Um, when, around the time when I was born, there was a war in it. So, um, my mum and dad fled the country. We moved to Germany when I was like one year old, stayed in Germany until I was like four years old. Um, not much like recollection of that period in time. But when we moved to the country, we, um, moved to Crystal Palace in it. There's an area in London, South London, Crystal Palace. Stay there with like my, um, one of my grandmas and just kinda, um, they started working. We moved to New Adderton. That's in Croydon and that's where I spent like most of my years in it from, um, four years old to, or five years old to 19 in it. Um, so I don't know if you know about Croydon. It's like just, um, an area in South London. Yeah. And then, um, for the most part, it's a council estate. Grew up in a council estate. Um, um, you know, I would say that it's one of them places where the neighbors, everyone kinda knows each other. It's a small town in it. New Adderton's like part of, um, Croydon borough. And then like the area that I lived in, like we had like some travelers, um, on like the cul-de-sac next to me. And then there was two estates and like everyone just knew each other. So when we were growing up, it was kind of like a community, do you go on and say? Yeah. There was a lot of rough times though. Was it tough or was it you keep away from the troubles? Um, I think younger, it was, um, you don't know as much. Do you get what I'm saying? Because everyone you're growing up around is poor. I think for me, when like I started realizing it was like different is, um, I think one of my earliest memories is when I was coming home from, um, that off some after school club in it. And I, um, they asked me, oh, where'd you live? And I was like, um, I pointed at my estate. I was like that big house and they're like, that's not a house. I was like, no, the big house. And they're like, that's not a house. And I was like, what is it? They're like, it's a flat. And I was like, I'm like five, six years old. I'm like, what's a flat? Like, do you get what I'm saying? I didn't really know, know too much in it. And then I think that's the sort of stuff that slowly and surely you start picking up like your situation and where you're from. And then I think it things get put in your face in it. Like, okay, um, even like away from TV, just like some people in your school are a bit more well off. And then I went, it's secondary school. I went to a school in Bromley, um, which is like quite middle class. And that's when I really like noticed the difference. You get what I'm saying. But you're treated different because you were from Sierra Leone. Um, I wouldn't say it was cause Sierra Leone, but I think like, you know, London's come a long way in it in terms of race, um, in terms of like multiculturalism in it. So New Adam was heavily like white in it. So when I started primary school, it was, I was the only black kid in like year one in it. And then by year three, there was, um, two other black kids, but obviously, um, a lot of the people there were travelers as well in it. So I feel like travelers and black people, as far as my community tend to get on in it. And then, um, as you get older and save. So when I went to the secondary school in Bromley, I don't think it was like outwards racism. It's just like micro aggressions in it, like little passing comments or it's like ignorance. You know, cause kids will be kids in it. They don't know what's going on behind the home. And it's just like, oh, like, um, without throwing to that, without throwing people in the bus. I think it's like when things like roots come up, you know, like the, um, the movie roots. And it's like people start saying stupid things. Not to me really. Like I kind of, I was temperamental in it. Like I had a bad temper, but for the most part, people would like to see what they can get away with. If you go, I mean pushing the boundaries to see how you would react. Yeah. Did you suffer much racism growing up as a teenager? Um, like I said, um, I wouldn't say the usual. Like I got arrested when I was 13, like the first time in Bromley. What for? Um, wrong, like wrong place, wrong time. They profiled me. They were like, oh, we're looking for a black man now. And I was like, I'm 13. And then they brought the dogs out. They put like, have my face flat on the floor at the bus stop. Um, I was like, I'm in a purple jacket in it. I was just, um, the office. I was just being mad rude. He was just like, oh, if you done that where I'm from, I would have knocked you out. I'm like, bro, I don't even know what's going on. Do you get what I'm saying? Um, and then like just look, it's always micro stuff. It's never, it's hard to catch someone do it outwardly in it. I feel like the personality that I have, I have a very like, I'll address you. Do you get what I'm saying? And I don't think a lot of people would reciprocate it. Um, but it's always like little snide things. You get it. Yeah. Yeah. But people are always trying to push your boundaries and to see your reaction. And if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Yeah. This is a society we're in. It's not just about racism. It's about so many different things, business. 100%. Would you have a big family? Um, I would say I got a lot of half brothers around. Half brothers, half sisters. My dad was shaggy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was active. Yeah. Yeah. But in connection with any of them, are you just doing your own thing? So like families are a bit disjointed, you know, that when success comes, it's like, can you pay for this? Can you do this? I've got a mad story that the first day I signed my deal, one of my uncles came to my house and he started going through my trainers in it. And he's like, what can I have these trainers? He's pointing at like my lubes. And I said, nah. And I was like, you can have them some Adidas trainers. He's like, nah, I want the lubes. And I was like, no. And then he sat down. He's like, yo, I've got this business idea. Yeah. I've never, um, I haven't seen him in like 10 years before this. And then he's just like, yeah, I've got this business idea. Can you give me 30,000? I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I've got this shoe shop that you should invest in it. I was like, no. This is the first day I've got money that leave me alone in it. And I feel like those sort of pressures with anyone that gets that successful, um, I would say it's a very, like it's an African trait in it. Like once you do well, it's like they want you to take care of them before you've done anything. Do you get what I'm saying? That's the thing that's difficult with success because even though you're doing well, people think you're multi-millionaire you can save the world and really you're still trying to create a business. You need income to create more business. So it is difficult, but people just see, people think to see you on the TV and that's it. You've made that. This is only the beginning of your journey. But again, it's very cutthroat. And as the older you'll get, you start to realise that the ones who are there, you already know who the ones are real and who the ones are fake as fuck. They always come into your life, but you'll probably know for them, get go. 100%. It's the ones when you're struggling, who are still there as the ones who I help. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is difficult because I'm soft as shit, so I try and help everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time that I got a bit of success, I've already got used to saying no in it. I got used to saying no. Obviously, I'm a bit soft natured as well. So if you give me a sob story, I might, like do you get what I mean? It might make me cave in, but for the most part, I'm protective of myself in it. And I've got my friend Sam, he's a good friend that he'll make sure that I'm not doing too much in it. Because sometimes you can question if maybe you're being a bit cold in it. I might overthink and say, raw, am I doing too little or am I being too selfish? Yeah. But like he said, you've got to take care of yourself. The end of the fuck is fast as well, everybody. Yeah. Can you share this? Can you donate here? Yeah. And you don't reply and then it's, you're a fucking scumbag, you forgot yourself and it's just so much that you can't do everything. You don't mind doing the odd thing. You're schooling then, you clearly had a good education, you clearly had a great upbringing because you ended up going to uni as well. Yeah. So I would say, schooling, I was fortunate, I think I was one of the fortunate people from my area. Like I said, most people from New Addicton stay in New Addicton in it. And then for whatever reason, I think my mum might have done a dress fraud in it to get me into a better school because I've done good grades, but the school's in Bromley and that now when I think about it and catchment areas, I shouldn't have been able to go to that school. Like I used to like travel like an hour and a bit every morning to get to school in it. And then it kind of just showed me the other side of life in it. It's kind of showing me, okay, this is how kids are living on this side of life. So it kind of allowed me to have more ambition because I know what's out there. Do you know what I'm saying? So fortunately in school, I just always kind of stayed, stayed focused in it. Like I'm quite good academically to be honest with you. Like I've never really had a problem. I learned a lot when I was a kid in it. So you had a lot of drive from a young age, travelling to school one hour to go to school one hour back. Yeah. So straight hustle straight away. Straight, straight away. Yeah. Do you think if you went to the school that was closest to you, your life would be different now? 100%. Yeah. 100%. Because even like the mannerisms like I said, I used to have a bad tempo in it. So like in year seven, I was just fighting everyone. And fortunately, the way they are in Bromney, it's like you can fight about it and move on, shake hands, et cetera, et cetera. But in like in credit and in ends, you're fighting someone, you're holding onto that. Do you get what I'm saying? Everyone's got pride. Everyone's got like ego. Ego. Like manner just coming back around like you're getting stabbed. Do you get what I'm saying? Do you get what I'm saying? It's not anything. Like it got to the point. It's like, I know more people that have been stabbed than probably not. Do you get what I'm saying? And then it's like, they're in the circle. Whereas they're in that circle, that continuous circle of violence. Whereas fortunately, like mine, my issues were few and far between. Like you still have them, but not as much that you're quoting them. Do you get what I mean? How hard was it once you started getting good grades, once you started learning school and seeing that it's two different worlds, even not just a couple of miles up the road. When did you start learning, right, you wanted to do something with your life and make something productive happen? So I always kind of said that probably in school was a shit period for me. Do you get what I mean? So it was like just mad shit because like we would go say after Christmas that I would never get anything on Christmas and everyone in my class would come back like, yeah, I've got this, I've got a PS3, I've got this and they're like, oh, what do you get? And I'm like, I don't know. Do you get what I'm saying? So I think I've always kind of, I used to search up things on Google like how to make a million, that I was looking into trading when I was like 13, I was like, yo, I need money in it. I need to make some money because I think being poor around poor people isn't as bad as being poor. And seeing that rich or well-off kids you get what I'm saying. It kind of burns a bit more because you know what you're missing out on. So I think from young I always just, I was a bit obsessive in it. I was like, yo, I've got to make something in my life. I've got to make something in my life because like no one else had done it. Do you get what I'm saying? My older brother wasn't doing anything like productive. Do you get what I'm saying? So it kind of all fell on me sort of thing like the pressure was on me that my mum would always say, yeah, we want you to be a doctor. We want you to be like the usual stuff. And it's kind of installed that if you don't, I have no backup plan, basically. If I don't do well, there's no one, there's no one for me to confide in or like protect me. So I need to get my shirt to go on. Yeah, it doesn't just do well because I believe when you got your degree, you got your degree the same month. You got a record deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That must have made your mum proud. So, yeah, yeah, cool. It was like a mad period in it because by that time I said, yo, like I'm going to... Were you going to think about leaving, you know, to do music? Nah. Do you always want the backup? Yeah, and like I learned accounting in it. So I wanted to know what's happening with my money for when I do become successful in rap because I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do it. So let me just not understand money a bit better because, you know, they don't teach you about tax. They don't teach you about anything. Yeah, money management, nothing in school. Yeah, nothing in school in it. So I was just always like, yo, like I'm going to be over everything. So it's like, because rap is like quick money. Do you get what I'm saying? So a lot of people tend to lose it and I was just like, I can't be one of them people that I'm so paranoid of like going broke. I never want to be in that position ever again, basically. So when you started, when did you start really getting into a rap game? I would say it's first year uni. So first year uni, I said to myself, if I don't get a hundred thousand views by the end of this year, I'm going to quit. And that's how I would market in it. I was just like, let me just try my best. But if I don't do this, then I'll call it a day because the trajectory that I want isn't, the trajectory that I need, sorry, is like if I can't get that, then I'm just like playing with myself, basically. Do you get what I mean? I'm being a bit deluded. If everyone's saying, yo, you're shit. People say that, but everybody don't know how successful you become anyway. They do in it, but I was just like, yo, if I can't get this many people to say, you're sick, I'm just going to pack it in in it because I don't want to be deluded in it. And then by second year, I was just like, cool, I've done a hundred thousand. Like, yo, I can do like 200,000 or maybe like, do you get what I'm saying? So I started building my own channel in second year for uni after second year. And I was like, I started it with some Hollywood series where I rapped on Daniel Bedenfield and that done like a hundred thousand views on my own channel. So I was like, okay, cool. And then third year, I was still in the mix in it because by this point, UK rap didn't have a lot of money, but to be honest with you, it was still a very new scene in it. And I was talking to my friend who's my manager now, Sholes, and I was like, bro, you've got to help me with my CV, man. I was like, we've got to get my CV ready because if it's not looking like I'm going to make money from this, I've got like, I've got responsibilities. You get what I'm saying. And I need to like take care of myself, need to take care of those around me. So let's get ready. So he was helping me with my CV and then I made a song unsigned with an artist, Juan Asun. And I was just like, yo, I've put everything into this song. Like this sounds like a perfect song. If they don't take this one, then fuck it. I'll just go off and be an accountant. Do you get what I'm saying? And maybe one day I'll come back to like, to like who knows in it. I might come into the music game a different way, but I was just like, yo, if they don't fuck with this, call it in a day. But I didn't give it much thought after that because I was like, this is the one. Did you believe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were so sure that that's why it was the first music video that we flew out for and that we were just like, yeah, this is the one. Yeah. How hard is it to make it in the rap game, especially in the UK? You see names popping up everywhere, but they never last. Yeah, I think making it might be easier than lasting in it. Maintaining. So it depends what everyone calls making it in it. I think it's like, it's a lot of, it's a mental game, I think. A lot of people don't know that. It's more mental game. How self-aware are you that do you know what you bring to the table? Things like that. And a lot of artists don't look at it like that. They just, it's a very ego-driven thing at the same time. Do you get what I'm saying? Because the rap game's kind of a gangster rap, but you've went to uni, you've got a degree. 100%. Because I love Akala. Yeah, thank you. I think he's, there's so many great people out there that do their shit, and that's the stigma it's attached to. Yeah. Rap as gangsterism is a prison. Yeah. Popping champagne and all the bullshit they did, you know what I mean? People came in for the fast life. Obviously the Americans, you could 50 cent a game and shit like that. I've took it to new levels, but there's money to be made everywhere. Just how successful, and it's all about passion and how much you love it. Yeah. When you start to drink your apps, do you seem to love it? Do you seem to enjoy it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I saw, I just liked rapping in it when I was younger, and I was like, I gave it more thought as I got older in it. And I was just like, do you know what, a lot of gangster rappers don't have peace of mind. Do you get what I'm saying? It's like, you might, even if you're successful, you're mad paranoid, you're looking around, you're not even enjoying yourself. Even nowadays when you see a lot of rappers, they wear bellies, they want peace in it. As much as they're rapping all this violence, a lot of them don't want to live their life in fear. Do you get what I'm saying? So I was just like, do you know what, as much as I've grown up in so and so, if I talk about things that, if I glorify violence, more violence comes to me, do you get what I'm saying? Because someone's looking around, you should see how man them are in the ends in it. When someone comes up rapping violence, they're like, oh, he's not about it. He's not real. Man them want to test you. And I'm like, do you know what, I don't want that to be my whole life. That is dead, bro. Imagine I make money, and then I don't even have peace of mind to just wear my jewellery. You always hear of rappers getting robbed and you hear of that rappers end up in this incident. How the fuck are you going that gold and platinum and you can't just walk down the road? You know what I mean? And I was like, that's stupid. I don't want that for my life. Because you went platinum twice? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which are the most viewed? Is it best life? Best life, yeah. Over $30 million. How was it when you hit a monster like that? How does that make you feel when you were chasing $100,000 to then? So by that point, we were just living in it. So even how the song came about, we were just over the moon in it. And we knew, I had that song not too long after unsigned, the first breakthrough one. And we were like, yeah, this one's out. This one's out of the park in it. So we were just living our life a bit in it. You know what I'm saying? Just being young and excited. And we just knew, man, we said we've got to do a mad video with a mad villa. We've got to look like we're living our fucking best life in it. And then even the only thing with the story, there was a song that came out, Cardi B and Chance Rapper. And it was called Best Life. And I remember calling Ace and I was like, fuck sake, I was like, what the fuck are they named it Best Life, man? And then we were like, do you know what though? Our one's better. Our Best Life is better. And no one even really, I don't know how it's done in America, but no one talks about Cardi B and Chance Rapper one. You get it. Yeah. What kind of people have you worked with so far? Throughout the industry or musicians? The last few years. The musicians. You get a lot of characters. Yeah. Yeah, you get a lot of characters. You aren't phony bastards as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, you know how people are? If you're hot, they're on you. They're calling you every day. And then if they feel like, it's not going to go well for you, they distance yourself in it. But I was always kind of aware of that. I'm someone that watches interviews. I like to learn about what I'm getting into in it. And then obviously as well with rap, there's a lot of big kids that if you, if we just call spades a spade, like a lot of people are like young and naive in it. Like a lot of people might get their first advance and buy a watch. Like do you get what I'm saying? You made 50K and you spent 30K on your watch and you just, bro, you see it. Yeah. And it's like, it's a shame in it. Like do you get what I'm saying? Because I thought, I can't tell the man how, what to do with their money. You can't tell someone what to do with their money. You just got to let people make their own mistakes in it. And it's a shame cause a lot of them don't know better. Cause I, I fortunately know better cause I went uni and I went to like, I was always kind of a bit more aware in it because of my situation, fortunately. And a lot of people like they come from down the road from me. So I'm like, I get why you're like that. And it's a shame in it. How have you handled the fame that's coming with that? The success? It has its stresses. You get what I'm saying? I think for me it's been a lot of, I felt like lockdown helped me understand it a lot. So when everything slowed down, like I've, I've finally, like I went straight from uni to performing, like doing 80, 80 shows in one quarter of the year and then just doing shows, shows, shows, studios, studios, studios. So it never got, like, it never got to settle in who, who, how people saw me. So I would still just go to the shop. Like my friends would be mad pissed. I'm like, bro, I'm going to the shop with it. And they're like, no, you can't go to the shop. You're a hardy calf. I'm like, bro, I'm going to the shop. I want a Coke. And they're like, no, you're not going to the shop. I'm like, bro, it's not that deep. And they're like, you've got one of the biggest songs in the country. I'm like, it's not that deep. I don't care. Do you get what I'm saying? And, but I think this year when everything slowed down, I was like, raw, I've done a lot. And it didn't even feel like that time just flew in it. Like it felt like a blur. Like you're going to shows, you're drinking. You're out the hotel by 7am. You're at the next city. And it's like, I didn't even know what had happened. Bro, I only took it fast. Yeah. That I only took it in last year because of lockdown. Because I'm always working. I don't even do holidays really. Like I've done my first holiday last year. So, so I've never had the chance to be like, look back and think this is what I've done. So it's good to the lockdowns actually made you appreciate it more. Yeah. 100%. You need to be careful that you don't burn yourself out as well. But obviously if you get the business strategy on the mindset you're thinking, this shit doesn't last forever. 100%. So you just try to cane it as much as you can, as much as you can and then invest. Exactly that. That's what I'm trying to do anyway. Exactly that. But again, man, that is fucking. You know that. You can't. When we all know that we shouldn't do it till we burn out. But we'll get as close as possible. Yeah. Nervous breakdown. Yeah. Spending all your money surviving the hospital. It's difficult because I'm the same. I just want to work hard. Because this shit doesn't last forever. Okay. And that's for the next three to five years. 100%. And then I'll smoke one. I'm disappearing because it's an illusion as well. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've been on social media and success. People think you're living a high life, but they don't see the constant road trips. They don't see the constant up early in the morning and putting in the hustle. Yeah. Where's the best city you've been in? A lot of the out of London cities go all the way off. Do you get what I'm saying? Because I feel like where a lot of them don't know someone that knows you. They look at you and they're like, raw. I love this guy. This might be the only time I see him. Liverpool goes off. Nottingham goes off. To be fair, where I'm fortunate, I think a lot of us music is feel good music. So people go to the shows. They're happy. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not really doing like sit down and listen music. I'm doing let's turn the fuck up music. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Try to get the crow pumping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've had a lot of Mad Ones, Malyar, the Greece, a lot of the Greece party countries in it. They go off as well. Who would you love to work with? There's a variation. Different people for different reasons. I would say Swaley. So, yeah, I'd like to work with Swaley. I just think he's sick like melodically. He's another person that does like, he's like sick at party anthems. Who else? I think just to tick it off my list, like in terms of that personal favorite artist, Ed Sheeran. I don't know how it sounds, but like I like Ed Sheeran a lot. Do you get what I mean? He just says what's on his mind in it. Like, and I appreciate that. Like it's a nice, I think just brutal honesty. He's turned into one of the biggest artists. Not the biggest in the world. Yeah. For where he's came from and he's mixed it with so many different now. And that's what it's great about it. It's just able to fit in with every kind of sort of senior end music. Like, he's collabed with so many people and everyone's been a smash hit. That's talent for me that you can work with. People are so off the cuff that people don't see it. 100%. But you see it. You see there's something in the way you're going. I don't see why it shouldn't happen in the next two or three years. We hope, man. Yeah. That's all you can do in life. Do you know what I mean? What do you think? How are you doing it without the crowds and shit? How are you feeling that with the crowds and shit getting cancelled? How is that affecting you? It's like a bit... Like I said, it's just boring, isn't it? But fortunately for me, I think I needed this as well. It let me... It just let me refocus. Do you know what I'm saying? Because I wouldn't have done that if the lockdown didn't happen. I would still be fighting overthinking things. Do you know what I'm saying? It let me catch up with like, yo, this is who I am. Because I think another thing that 2020 for me career-wise wasn't my proudest year. Because I was like, I've done a lot of decisions that were based out of insecurity. Like I released a lot of music that I'm like, why did I do that? But I just was lost in it. I was so lost in like so many outward opinions. Because obviously I had only recently moved out of Craydon, isn't it? Maybe a year before a year before lockdown. But obviously I still go to Craydon a lot in it. And then it's like, I think with the benefit of hindsight I wouldn't have done that. Do you get what I'm saying? I would have surrounded myself with better energy. Do you get what I'm saying? Because a lot of people from your area don't wish the best for you. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, you've done this, but you could have done this. Oh, you've done this, you could have done this. Oh, don't forget where you came from. You know that one, don't forget where you came from. Oh, yeah, that's a little hardy. But he's doing like the pop songs. Or I was a little hardy doing the pop songs and I'm just like, and I'm like thinking and the way I'm an overthinker sometimes it's like, I might have internalized that. Do you get what I'm saying? And then I start doing tunes that we already established that I don't care to be a gangster rapper. But I'm there like making the songs that sprinkling it a bit a bit more aggressive than I need to be. I'm like, why am I doing that? Do you get what I'm saying? But that's just outside noise. Fuck everybody else. Look how far you've come as well. We're just educating yourself, understanding the music game's just like business. Everything's business. I've seen rappers out there that are fucking terrible. But they know how to manipulate the market. That's all it is. It's just straight business. And fuck the outside noise. That's the way you've come from because you want better for yourself. 100%. What happens is your spotlight will shine on other people's misfortunes. So they'll start blaming you. They'll hate you and they don't even know you. Bro, trust me. It's part of the life. It happens in it. You can't help it, bro. Like people are angry and I can't, what can I do? Exactly. Just got to kick on. The boy from Love Island. How did that come about? Were you worried about that? Obviously the Love Island background you smashed it. That was your first top song? Yeah. So someone that I know shouted me and said, yo, you need to do a song with words. And I was like, no, I don't. No, I don't, bro. And then he said, nah, this song is serious. And I was just like, he's like, I'm going to give him your number and he can call you and so forth in it. And then he's called me and he's facetimed me in it. He's facetimed me. I'm in my kitchen. He's like, yo, hardy. I've got this mad song and I was like, fuck sake. And then he's like, yo, nah, let me just show it. He's showing it to me. He's playing it. I'm like, oh, this song's kind of like, I've heard it. I'm like, yo, it's kind of alright still. And then the chorus has come and he's like, fuck down. I'm like, yo, what the fuck was that? And then he's played it like the whole minute. I'm like, what the fuck? I've got up. I'm like, bro, this song is mad. I'm like, this is mad. This is mad. And for me, I just care about the music. I just care if the song is good. I don't care about who you are, anything just is your song good. And I was like, yeah, this song is hard. And I just jumped on it. I was like, yo, this song would even be good without man. So let me just do what I need to do. I won't even try and make it about me in it. I'll just do a nice cool verse. You have your spotlight and yeah, we'll do that. Do you get what I'm saying? Was that the back of your mind though, because he's coming from Love Island? I was like, naturally, one of my friends brought that up. I was like, nah, I don't care. I was like, I don't care. Do you know what I'm saying? Because it's like, he can be from Love Island, but he's good. And if I jump on it and say this is good, I'm still hardly caprio, bro. I stand by all of my decisions. Is it a good song? Yeah. Do you get what I'm saying? What can anyone tell me about that? That's the main reason. Fair play to the kid man. He's took his opportunity and it can't be, it must be so difficult that you're from Croydon, so you know the battles you get. Coming from Love Island, try to be a rapper. People are going to fucking slaughter you. 100%. Do you know what I mean? Because it's got that stigma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody that goes on that show, you know yourself, it is a wee bit of fame, hungry, search, self-seeking kind of, but then to come into the music industry and the boys done well and he got, was it number two, number three? Number three still, yeah. How was that feeling getting your first top ten? Well, we were like, it's mad, didn't it? But I won't say we didn't expect it. We expected it, bro. Like, we were like, this one's mad still. And we were like, do you know what, like the stigma might make it hard for it to take off, but he's going to flip it and make it a W because it's like it'll be like, oh, that's a Love Island kid. And then it's like, now it's like, oh, you know, he was on Love Island though. Like it became a W. Like it's like, wow, like you're talented and you're from Love Island. Do you get what I mean? So he's like, yeah, like, he flipped it from an L to a W. Yeah, good on him, man, because it take, a lot of people get into their shell after that kind of shit, the fire burns after six months. Yeah. He took all his opportunities. I don't know if he was only dancing and he's shit like that and he's found an avenue and he's now he's smashed it. So good on him, man. 100%. For the top ten, brother. Thank you, bro. For the top of the pops as well. Was that New Year's special? Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Croydon to top of the pops. Yeah, no, it was a mad one. You know, I was like, yeah, this, this shit, like no one can hate on this shit. Do you get what I was saying? I'm on top of the pops. So no, I was proud of that one still. This was a proud moment. It was like me finding myself again in it. Like he helps, he helps it in it. So I like, I'm grateful for it. Would you do another one together? Definitely, man. Definitely. No reason not to. What's the plans then for 2020? 2021. So after, like I said, like after 2020's come slowed down, it let me get my head back in the game. I was like, yeah, let me just make the, that best body of work in it. Like I've been delaying it. I've been overthinking it. I made the fuck off body of work. I said, yo, I made some like project to the year kind of shit. Do you get what I'm saying? I said this project, when it lands, everyone's going to hear it and everyone's going to love it. Are you excited for that? 100%. Are you handling everything well now? How did life change after Top of the Pops is where and getting a top 10? Life after, it's easy now. Do you get what I'm saying? It's like, I know some people want to beg it. It's like, yo hardy, like, yo my guy, my bro, what happened? Like we lost touch. I'm like, fuck you, it's calm in it. Do you get what I'm saying? I get it. It's like you're insecure. I'm not insecure no more. I get it. Like you just want to come over because you think niggers are winning over here and we are going to win. You get it. So that for me, it's like not a thing about, oh, like like, oh, I hope this year goes good. This year will go good. You get it. So I'm like, I'm 100% confident in myself. Did you have to distance yourself from a lot of people where you're moving through the gears? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like obviously, like 2020, like a lot of my team, like a lot of my team I had to let them go. Do you get what I'm saying? We had problems behind the scene and it's like, I've been helping people like I've got a soft heart in it. Like I've had friends that I've tried to bring along the way and help like catch up because I'd rather employ my friends than employ some stranger from the industry. Do you get what I'm saying? And then at the same time, it's like the same care that I'm giving out to other people, I'm not receiving. Do you get what I'm saying? Because obviously I had my own stresses throughout the year. Like yo, what's happening next? Where's the, where do we go next? And I'm having my nervous breakdowns. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm like, what's going on? And the people that I thought would be there weren't there. Do you get what I'm saying? It's like they kind of said yeah, that's your problem. Do you get what I mean? So you were helping people who were struggling, but when you started struggling, no one was there? No, like do you get what I'm saying? Except my friend Sam, co-manager Sholes, like not a lot of them were there, do you get what I'm saying? It's like I'm kind of going for it. Like I'm in this big house, but you're not there. Like none of them are not there. Do you get what I'm saying? It's like when the Sholes are there, you're there. But when it's like the problems Yeah, nobody's saying how are you Sholes? What can we do? Where can we go? Where can you take us? Yeah, so like we had label issues behind the scene, me and my label me and my label had a bit of problems in it, like they didn't agree with the direction that I was going and I was just like, you lot are trying to make me do like best life like 300 times and I'm not trying to do best life 300 times, I want to be the artist that I want to be in it and then naturally it was like there's a lot of friction behind the scene and I was like, no, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. I have a lot of integrity with my music like I don't do it based off the hype or based on the trend I just want to do it because I want to do it. Do you get what I mean? And obviously they need it to sell in it. I get it for them as a business and I want it to sell. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm like, I know how to sell for me. You lot let me do my thing in it and then we will like button heads a lot and then basically it was like a very heated situation in it where basically we didn't know if we, the label was going to drop us or or or we're staying on and we're trapped in like a you're on the shelf situation and that's when I was going through it the most in it so that's when I was like, yo like to my old manager I was like, yo I need your help. I need your help. He's like, oh he's just not, he's very passive. He's not saying stuff in it. He's not really saying anything. I'm hearing rumors that he's just I'm hearing rumors from other people or like my close friends to be honest so I won't even call them rumors like my close friends are telling me like, yo he's doing this behind your back. He's doing this behind your back. I said, cool like I'll let you go in it. He's before the day when I fired him he said, yo you're not getting out of that contract. The next day I had a new contract. It was like out of a movie. Do you get what I'm saying? It was like I got the best contract in my life. I'm in the best base of my life and it's like the people that it's like, you know what they say about some people aren't ready to follow you into the next part of your journey and it felt like that really to go through it the next level in life what happens is when people are here, you are here so people want you to become a yes man jump through those hoops. We can give you the contract but as soon as you started hesitating and getting question marks they say, well you're just going to shelve you you're not going to stay in this label and what happens is people just pull back because they don't want to fuck it up you push through and look what happens you've got a bit of success. It doesn't happen for everyone getting a bigger contract but this shows you how cutthroat this and this dress. People get used thrown out, burnt to the ground travel everywhere making money you're making companies money and as soon as they think you're not there anymore you're fucking kicked to the curb. You're struggling with that thinking that I could lose my record label that I'll just agree or he's so stubborn and so understanding where your own path was in life you thought fuck you. Yeah, I'm a stubborn guy I'm not going to lie so I'm like, do you know what I made hardy caprio do you get what I'm saying? No label made hardy caprio, no business exact made hardy caprio. It was me do you get what I'm saying? There was times in my career they wanted me to look like Stormzy. There's times that they want you to look like Jay Haas and I was like nah I'll just do my own thing in it and so even when we were going through the tensions I was like what do you want to drop me drop me then drop me then because I'll go make money my own way and it's like you don't want to drop me though you don't want to drop me in it cause even then I had the song with Wes and like I said I knew how it would do so I was like right if you don't drop me I'm going to go make a song with Wes anyway and this one's going to fuck up the charts and while I did in it so I'm kind of like I trust my initiative do you get what I'm saying? I trust it like 100% and if you're on my side cool if you're not fair enough in it we might have different paths. Wash your hands and move on. So you get good intuition then you kind of know the path and life that you want to do. We'll see you in it. Let me not get too cocky. What about last year you released so many songs how many songs did you release? What this last year oh like six, seven but I don't like I don't want to talk about them like I said like I said it was when I was in like a... But after being your escape writing down songs just getting them out there to take you away from all the battles you were going this is a like I always repeat it but people will see you doing well and see photos and videos of private planes all the big cars but you're still fucking battling you could have five successful five straight number ones and you could still be battling. This is the ups and downs of life and this is what makes separates the winners from the losers is the ones who keep pushing through to keep levelling up, to keep taking shit to a new level life's a fucking rollercoaster 100% I mean people will be seeing you the more success comes the more pressure the more problems, the more fucking pain the more leeches it's difficult and your mind when you start having success when you start doing well, when you start getting money and you think you've completed life everybody's going to be happy, you're going to be sitting around a villa everybody at the pool, fucking drinking beer, smoking joints and for you know you're sitting in your kitchen yourself yeah yeah yeah that's the rule that's the rule you're just sitting in your kitchen you're like fuck where did it go wrong do you realise that have you got kids? everything I do is for my kids is to leave a legacy, build businesses and then it can leave on for other people to take over and this is why I work so much as well I only get one shot, I've fucked up so much that I know this is my shot to be sitting in a few people and getting paid yeah nice, imagine it and like you said you want to hold on to that and whilst this is in your hands you want to capitalise why not mulk it? I mean why not but success leaves close as well I just copy other people, put my own spin to it do you know what I mean and you're going to make mistakes along the way I'm not shy away from them leeches come, leeches go I'm a fucking veteran at this now so I know it you've got to talk the talk do you know what I mean I take you off with this move another big song, is it Good and Tag so this was one of the first ones where I was getting like pushback in it I saw Digg that Bounce or his manager at the time said yo can you bring out Digg that to a show in it and I was like calm in it man I know Bounce or from Enzenit Craydon and I was just like I'd heard some of Digg that before as well I heard him on a heady one mix tape and it was like his first song yo this kid's sick I was like this guy is fucking sick and then for me I was just like drill was getting popular at the time and I was just like I'm personally not going to do drill but how can I put my own spin on it because I want to work with him and it's like I can see where he's going and it's like you just need a song you just need a song that cuts through in it because I remember before when I was coming up it was like I was doing a lot of sick freestyles but I couldn't get a song that for the charts do you get what I'm saying and then I was like now I've learned it let me pass it to someone that might not know at the current moment in time in it so obviously he had a big song with Air Force in it but I was just like yeah like cool let me just do it back to back structure the song like a pop song and then see how it does and that was your songs and that's done amazing as well how's the people who have been in the industry for about longer than you 5 years 10 years how do they treat you so I've got good relationships with them they're like the smarter ones you get what I'm saying you don't really have bad relationships with people that have been around because they'll be like cool you might not be where you should be but you'll get there so I've got a good relationship with Creptin Conan etc Tiny Tempah and whatnot and we talk like he's a great guy to be honest he's one of the first people to show me love in it and it's like I don't mind asking for advice I'm never too prideful to ask for advice I'm like yo man I'm going through this how did you do it and I'll ask them and they'll just give me nuggets of information like yo when we were at this point in our career this is what we done and yeah now I've got good relationships that's the we nuggets of information that keep you drive because it's so easy to quit so easy to just shut the curtains and switch your lights off and just get a normal job but I just yeah I can't do it I can't do it I've got too much not even pride but I'm too stubborn in it like I'm competitive I'm like yo like I'm going to show people do you know what I'm saying I remember like my first song that didn't go the way I wanted it after Best Life was sponsored and like the first week of it I said I remember like calling me and Sam were like yo what the fuck happened and we don't eat McDonald's in it like and I called Sam he's like yo I just went drive through McDonald's and I was just like yeah we kinda fucked this one yeah like I don't know what we done wrong and I was like I don't know in it and then in a week's time I said yo that's when I had made goot and talk I was like nah fuck this we'll bounce back from it do you get what I'm saying because I feel kinda making my first mistake after such a run kinda eased off the pressure so after goot and talk I was like yeah like what if man fall off I can come back do you get it I'll come back you know I might not do everything perfect but I'll always be here as long as I want to be an artist God willing I'll be an artist that's where the growth is though your mistakes when you've made your first big mistake see it's the negative people that fuel me it's the fucking haters that fuel me when everything's going great and smooth sailing money's coming in you've got everything's planned and you think it's fucking great I'm the king and then bang something happens you do get into your shell for a few days and you think fuck this but then you'll see you look at the messages and then you go you know what fuck it I'm going to show them so it's the negative and it's so childish but it is the negative people who fuel me because everybody keeps waiting for me to fall flat on their face they ain't gonna fucking have them I'm the same you know I'll be like what really got me off the spot I said to Sam I was like I was scrolling through Twitter and I saw someone say and I took that and I was like nah I was like Sam this one's a bit deeper and he was like nah it's just like a hate and I was like no because he said I'm top free shit is rappers so he's not trolling he's fought about it and he said you might not be the shit is rapper in the UK but on any given day you are part of the top free shit is and I was like what the fuck I was like nah I was like Sam I'm gonna get like I'm gonna come back on this one innit I'm gonna come back so when we done Goot & Tarla I was like thank you very much there you go but it is childish but that's where I can that's where I'll get my drive because it's easy just to fuck this because it's painful social media is painful like they can post a great life but in reality the people really get to see the misery the unhappiness when we're constantly thinking I'm constantly thinking about work and bringing in numbers who can take my business to another level how can I start this business it's fucking non stop but then I think you've got to be obsessed to be the best at something I think you've got to master your craft become the best and then add to it like an octopus so many people trying to do so many things at once everything burns I'll master this I believe I'm the best interviewer in the UK I'm making an interviewer look fucking cool I'm taking things to new heights as soon as I go to America I'm fucking taking over that shit this is only interviews I just sit and talk to people and I'm taking it to new fucking heights like the hate that comes with it is it's laughable as well but you think fucking scumbags why do you know what I mean because I try and help people genuinely do along the way and then people you don't give them as much time as they think they deserve and then they start turning out to hate people are angry that's what I'm saying people are angry at home bro and that's what you can't stop winning for their minute do you get what I'm saying some people will be like oh why did hardly like like why are you showing off your cars and it's like bro because I worked for their minute I worked for them bro do you get it so it's like you don't want to see me sweat sweating and going through whatever I'm going through but when I'm winning you don't want to see it bro I hopped in the GTS isn't it even on the web song I said yo the first verse that I dropped on it that it was a completely different verse isn't it I've done it in the live lounge but I was like yo on the actual song you are going to hear me flex they didn't want to see me flex I hopped out of the GTS because I got that car after the contract I said yeah do you know what I'm never going broke I'm never going broke you get it bro you got to show off sometimes and at the same time you can't let them people get into your head bro they just want you to be as unhappy as them bro I don't really go on social media a lot in it like I've until last week I deleted it off my phone in it because I'm like do you know what I'm out of point in my career where it's like I'm just going to do what I want to do do you get what I'm saying and unfortunately I can't take in everyone's opinion bro that imagine I'll cater for every thousands of people on my Instagram or thousands of people on my Twitter I'll be going in multiple directions and do you know what maybe use it for me maybe use it for me as well and I'm like yeah cool even now bro I came back I came back on Instagram I was done a post yesterday about how we grew up in debt some guy commented you didn't grow up like why are you saying that you grew up in debt you didn't know what debt was when you were like I'm like why are you so angry bro do you get what I mean but you can feel their energy I feel their tension did you find it was a big put cause I'm over 10 hours a day in my phone I say it's for my work but it's not really I could make a post and put my phone down why am I searching what am I searching for I'm feeding it energy it's becoming a major addiction I've got people there who could work social media but I want to interact because there's some night 9% is nice messages it's good people but it's the 1% that charges you for the rest of the day I used to be like that let me not do it no more cause I want my music to come from cause music is emotion and if I do everything to prove someone wrong it's like when am I going to tell my story do you get what I'm saying cause when I was making music growing up I was just saying what was on my mind I wasn't trying to prove people wrong and I was like do you know what for some people sometimes I can prove people wrong but songs like best life songs like unsigned songs like rap or they came from when I was happy do you get what I'm saying do you know what I'm a flag guy when I'm happy do you get what I'm saying my music does better when I'm in that state of mind sometimes you can collect and talk about the depression stuff but it's like those were some beautiful moments you wouldn't make a song called best life if you weren't happy if I was on my phone all the time probably you wouldn't have made it because you start getting annoyed at people and what happens is you'll feel as if you need to start rubbing their face because that annoys them so do you know what I'm going to show you but then you lose your character you lose who you truly are and that's just that you just love music what do you think your best songs ever been so far um that's out my personal favourite is rap or in it like because I was like this song from like top to bottom is like the most unique song I've ever made in it I was like best life like I knew everyone would love it but I was like rap or the way that I've come on that song like straight away it's like you know who I am you know what I'm about I'm a bit cocky you know everything do you get what I'm saying I'm going to make this shit look sexy so it's like I said she want to baller I said she want to f-boy if I pull up in this A-team plate it's not going to matter and I love that because I made that a chorus like it doesn't sound like it should be a chorus but I had like I was going up to Manchester they were like she must become a rapper I was like I am a rapper but that's what done it for me I was like it's sarcastic as well across in music and I'd done that and I was like and even the way the label took to it when we'd done it I was like yo let's get this out to radio they were like this isn't like a song for the charts I was like we'll see in it first day and first week got into top 40 I was like thank you very much do you get what I'm saying so I was just like that was one of my favourites how much control do you get when you write a song and you know it's going to be a banger and yet if the record label don't feel it they just pull the plug on it to be fair the way my situation is we always have a conversation in it so it's not like you're the bad guys like all the time it's just we see things different in it and I think it's just having a good conversation to get that across how did your mindset change when you came off the radio? I was just happy I was just happy I was like yo I realised bro that bare people on social media they're so angry I can say yo I wore some blue Jordans today and they'll be like so what you don't care about the planet so what you don't care about the kids in India I'm like I do bro but I wore blue Jordans and I was like yeah I'm kind of happy because I can afford to come off my phone and still live a life I don't care about other people's business that much I don't care about bringing other people down they just let me focus on myself and the people around me a bit more I was more present in conversations sometimes you can just be like yeah yeah yeah so it let me appreciate things more way more and I like that it's definitely dumbing people down I think social media and I think since facebook stuff's been around I think suicide rates went up 60% so people look at other people's lives and think it's great this and that and it can be depressing especially other people's comments so if they're depressed themselves and seeing other people living a great life they're going to fucking sling hate and that is difficult that's maybe something I should take on board leaving it on a laptop where I can maybe just check it at night for one hour it can be difficult so far great career very business knowledgeable everything's going great for you made a couple of wobblers last year but that's all part of your growth it's never going to be smooth sailing so plans for the future then give me it brother so like I said drop the project this year see where it takes me probably do more property and just kind of enjoy it as well take time to enjoy it go on more holidays travel live my life a bit more do you know what I'm saying get more things to rap about do more shit is it going to be an album going to pop do you think? this year definitely before summer mixture of everything happy everything that came down everything I can do to be honest I hope tier 4 comes off and I can just fly out a bit do you know what I mean fly out, catch some peas do some rapper shit as well recharge as much as I'm smart I like popping bottles as well as much as I'm business minded I want to pour champagne on some booties fuck it you're still young man enjoy it where we are what about the boy is he H he's friends with him so we're cool we've seen each other a couple of times don't speak all the time I've seen you do a couple of times and I'm sure that kid's flying as well he's doing amazing it's good to see young boys making it out and doing well for himself I don't get where the hatred comes from obviously it's just pure jealousy you know what it is everyone thinks they can do it and then you tell them do it then because I'm not stopping you the industry is blocking me and it's like everyone's crying everyone's got excuses we didn't make excuses for ourselves why are you always making an excuse bro you get it you know people are always going to be angry there's always going to be someone that just watches too much porn and then gets angry at us they're like sorry bro I had to so before we finish up Rara say to anybody that's watching maybe battling, struggling with mental health what advice would you give for them I think it's just look at what you've got around you it's easy to look at everything that you don't have look at everything that you've got around you there's probably that your family will care your friends will care and also it's like we're fortunate we live in the side of the world where there's so much opportunity you can pick up a new skill tomorrow you can learn anything the internet's there it's just about trying do you get what I mean if you just focus on what's bringing you down you'll never get up basically so it's just about finding a new way to find something new how can people get on your social media it's just hard to caprio youtube channel what's that with your tunes on everything straight down the line down the line unique name isn't it listen brother thank you brother genuinely wish you all the best for the future thank you and look forward to your album thank you check out more of my podcasts on the right and be sure to like share and comment your thoughts on this week's podcast thank you