 joining us Bishop thanks for calling in nice to be here Greg thank you how are you feeling I that's a hard question to answer I'm looking in both directions you know like these two big things moving home and moving job and I'm doing the two of them together and I find it frankly more disoriented I've moved many many times in my life and it is much more disorienting this time than I ever was before do you think in the back of your mind you didn't think you'd be moved again that this is where you would finish your most certainly was you know I am a Jesuit and just part of the deal with being a Jesuit is that you're on the move and you expect to be moved to be asked to move and you move but when I became a Bishop that was just a totally new thing and there was a sense that I'm married to this now and this is it I'm why I will so it in my mind's eye I had myself wondering well when I retire where will I be and I had myself at various places always in County Donegal you know nearly embarrassed to say it but I said it to the people last night you know like where would I be buried I would be buried in Donegal so absolutely I this in the last while when I spoke over in Belfast the day that it was announced that I was to be the Bishop there I spoke it's very true in terms of I am coming home I was born and raised in North County Antrim and that is my home but I have a sense also here that I'm leaving home I this has been my home and I suppose either consciously or subconsciously perhaps you were loud yourself I don't know if it would be a an emotional attachment to an area do you know what I mean as you know as you say you knew the life of a Jesuit priest particularly so perhaps you always held a little back but perhaps as I say either consciously or subconsciously you allowed the roots to grow a little bit deeper here I think that's that is true we Jesuits try to commit ourselves totally to wherever we are but no there was that element I was pretty sure this is it this is it for good one of the last times I spoke to you somewhat ironically I don't know if that's the right word you had to lay out in really quite frank terms the reality of asking priests to move you know from one diocese to another that's what they signed up for and even in the face of you know public opposition and I think in a way that's a beautiful thing that someone means so much to some that they that you know they would gather and they would call on you to change your decision but you says you know you're really quite firm this is a decision it can't be changed and then a couple of short months later you find yourself in pretty much a similar position yeah I about a year ago when down in Connor was vacant a number of people said to me we think you might be going there and you're looking people whose opinion you would take very seriously and I was open to that at that time then six months past nine months past and I was clear in my mind no whatever that was that's not on now it was completely out of my mind and it was a Saturday morning there about a month ago I was sitting I had done the park run I was sitting at home relaxing I was going to relax for the rest of the morning and the text came asking me to contact the people nonceo's office and just that was oh my goodness here it is and then it moved very quickly and I doubt I was sitting in front of the people nonceo under just the way it works as he says the Holy Father has appointed you to be the Bishop up down in Connor and we chatted back and forward just about that but then the next line is with that little interim was do you accept so I kind of I looked at him I sort of smiled I said what do you think like somebody who indeed somebody who has spoken to you as I did and this other side come on yes yes it so it absolutely there is I committed myself to live under obedience and when it comes it comes yeah would an interview like this been have been more difficult sort of more immediately after that whilst you were processing oh yeah I did yes I and I wouldn't have done it hands like even after after it was made public there on the 2nd of February I I didn't want to do it I didn't want to speak publicly I I dealt with people one by one and no like there was a whole lot of dealing with people one by one telling the people in my own office and in my own house that all goodness gracious so I was not ready no and I when I was contacted by the station here to come I said wait a minute no I don't know that I want it to be almost as I'm walking out the door I'm prepared to do this but not until you don't get if you don't ask oh absolutely no I understand that and it's it's six years you've been the Bishop isn't that correct and it has it there's been a whole range of things and I suppose really in terms of just coming here some of the first inquiries would have got some of the first things you would have had to have dealt with what matters around abuse yeah that's right you know so that as you walked in that was some of the work that you had to begin immediately absolutely and and that in many ways that is one of the big realities of my time as a Bishop it is maybe the big reality in the life of our church this horrendous injustice to the most vulnerable and responsibility on the part of those who were guilty and then responsible responsibility on the part of the institution and then I'm the Bishop I am the institution and I carry that and rightly so so of course you know that that is something that in my position you carry with you all the time mm-hmm and I mean things that have been in place so or efforts that have been made to try and deal with that you would very much hope they continue I presume and and and that indeed not only that and and there are very good things and in this diocese I think particularly of what we have set up the liaison person Margaret Northage just does does a wonderful job in in reaching out compassionately and caringly and I know that that will continue and one would hope that we as a church will will we'll get better at this mm-hmm of course to it in the middle of your your six years there are there abouts to we had something that very very few people have ever experienced before and that was COVID yes wow which for me seems like it never happened and then at the same time it feels like it went on forever and it feels like it was yesterday and it feels like it was 25 years ago it's incredibly difficult for me personally to sort of frame it no life oh absolutely and again in terms of my six years here it was smack in the middle and I had some plans I had a pastoral plan in the making and moves like that one simple but really important for me part of my pastoral dream was and I spoke about it and got a great response from musicians in every parish I wanted congregational singing I really wanted to encourage that and we have a marvelous gathering on Pentecost Sunday 2019 where people came hundreds of them came from all across the diocese and we just had this wonderful liturgy with everybody singing their hearts out and the idea was that we'd go back and we would we would nurture this in every parish and bang not only first of all we can't be in the church for weeks and months on end and then we're let back into church and what we can't sing so we just this big bang smack in the middle and that's just one image of how it just shut everything down and that was a major part of of my experience as a bishop wanting to do something and then just kind of everything's frozen everything's on ice now for and it was a difficult time too in that it seemed to that an awful lot was happening but things were very slow to lift for for for the church and you know in terms of singing or whatever it might be and the terrible impact it had on people too in the grieving process and there's some study out today which points to that that you know there are still people that because of the the system this process that we'd established that that helps us through a process that that transition us transition sauce from a person being there one day and then not being there and how we do that that was taken from us now we did find other ways but it's still there's still there are still people now I think that they're there the process for them has been stunted because of what we were asked to do or what we were restricted from doing I don't doubt that I'm sorry I know and I just one of the one of the first big impressions when I actually came to live in and in Donnie Gall was I realized that all of those rituals around bereavement and supporting the bereaved terms of wakes like they they are they are developed to a to a degree in Donnie Gall like nowhere else in Ireland nowhere else in Ireland is there the the same sense of of the duty of solidarity and gathering around people and so my goodness like that the idea that people couldn't gather for wakes or that nobody could be in church honored my god when you think of it they the the horrible shock to the system of people who were bereaved that they were standing outside the church and under their mother or father or close relative was was was being you know prayed for inside and people standing keeping distant from one another outside it was horrendous yeah and I remember speaking to be able to move on from it so I think there's not we don't a lot of people want to vote remain focused on that but just remember speaking to older people that we're sort of saying to me like listen I'll take my chances just let me into the church to pray if God protects me protects me if he doesn't he doesn't and it was it was such a tough time but during those times there was some evolution as well and you know mass became incredibly popular on social media you let a rosary yourself which which proved quite a thing it did it did that was that on top of the one that we started on it was St. Patrick's night that year it was father but Father Paddy Don said to me you know you have to reach out to the people you're the bishop get into the cathedral and use the webcam and lead them in the rosary I said I would do that but also that I would lead them in the exam on which is this review of the day prayer and oh my goodness like for months on end I have this experience of going to work as a cathedral and knowing first of all on Facebook you could see that there were lots of people from around the dias around the word and then there was this other hidden it has only become clear to me there were these hundreds maybe a thousand on webcam who weren't you'd like you don't know about them they're just sitting out there and I have been met again and again by people all across this diocese but all across the country saying that it was a it was a real anchor in the day and particularly people living alone they just they felt bound into a community it so it was a it was a real lesson to us you know like community is something that you do shoulder to shoulder you know touching one another if you're looking at one another in the eye but there was real community yeah there was a real experience of community that could be supported by the social media that was amazing and to you know I just think there were lessons to be learned and I wonder did we learn them in that you know you would be very familiar as most people would but we certainly would on this program about you know rural isolation or loneliness and what have you and we all I think everyone got a sense of that and I kind of hope that we would learn coming through that that maybe you know we would ensure that people aren't lonely or don't feel isolated I don't know if that happened or not I don't know if we did learn from that and things have changed or everyone went back to the hustle and bustle of life and those who felt lonely already continued to do so I don't know I listen to some extent the latter is the case but there's also the reality that the numbers of older people who became very adapted iPads yeah phones and like this who ever heard a zoom but like Ira I'm zooming both for work and for socializing day and daily and a lot of people who would never have dreamt that that they could master this stuff it's second nature to them so I think to some extent some of that isolation is being broken down yeah for sure okay stay with me Bishop if you don't mind we do have to take a short break we'll be back with more from Bishop Alan McGockey and in about two and a half minutes keep your texts coming in lots of people a couple of questions but a lot of people wishing to pass on their good wishes Patricia on Facebook God bless Evelyn Corrin God bless Bishop Alan and on especially before I take the break I'll talk about this and then then we'll take the break and come back my understanding is that you've been and I think you referenced it today but you also referenced it last night and previously that you've been particularly moved by those the amount of people praying for you how was that how was that surprised you in any way or why why is that moving you such there had like even last night and over the last one there there are individuals that I don't know awfully well who say to me I pray for you every day why just that moves me very much like a sense that sort of Alan McGockey and doesn't deserve this and I just I am yeah I'm surprised I am taken aback and very uplifted by it it you know like very often people say I'll pray for you you'll pray for me and and you know they the skeptic in us all says well what difference is this Megan you know but no I am a believer and I believe a mix of difference and I think my goodness this has to be giving me something that that I wouldn't have otherwise back with more shortly watch the show live now on YouTube Facebook and at Highland Radio.com and we are in the company of Bishop Alan McGockey and who after over six years in this area is moving to his new post as Bishop of Down and Connor the messages coming in and it was something that was at the forefront of my mind to mention to you and that was the the Chrysler tragedy and often in moments of crisis and and this was felt unmatched in generations in this area we see the absolute absolute awfulness of life and death and then we see also to the best of it in terms of supports and coming together and what have you what's your recollection of that awful that afternoon Father John Joe Duffy called me to say he had just heard reports he was away down in the south of the county and he thought it was something terrible they even mentioned fatalities and I was just I was going into a meeting and my thought was I know that has to be an exaggeration I and I put it out of my mind and went about the meeting then after the meeting in the office they were saying that there's something on Highland Radio actually on the on the on your web page and I drove down just as it was getting dark and arrived at the police cordon and my first thought was of maybe I shouldn't go in there but I'd only be getting on the way but and we thank God I did in the guard wave me on in and just immediately there was a local woman recognized me so Bishop it's great you came and just funny just you had that experience that all of us have have had at different stages of our lives you're standing shoulder to shoulder with people going through just the most awful tragedy of their whole lives there are no words and yet some who are other you know that they're glad you're there there's nothing you can say but so and and that really was how it was as what my abiding memory of it is a sense of being honored by the people who were suffering so much you know like as a as a bishop I meant to be a pastor a shepherd and you often don't feel like that and you feel totally inadequate to it and then people in that awful moment allow you to be to be a shepherd to them so my goodness it it was yeah and often to like it I stopped sort of asking the question is what can you say you know beat be a bishop or a priest when you're there around people at the worst time in their lives and and the answer often was is you don't really there's nothing to say you don't have to say anything and then alone not really to reference that because obviously me just as someone who wouldn't have understood it I would be saying well what can well sometimes you actually don't say anything you just be present you just be there and that's what happened be yourself or just the community on that day in the days that followed sometimes you don't have to say anything you just have to be there no that's right and I think what an awful lot of people said to me was how glad they were that they were that I was there standing beside Father John Joe you know they got obviously we know Father John Joe just in God's providence was able to be with people to find words in his homilies at the funeral masses and and in other ways and an awful lot of people who benefited it from that then said and you as his bishop were standing beside him and that meant an awful lot to us so you know like it was just standing there said something you wanted it to say something you don't know what exactly it's saying then listen I had the privilege of of lead the people gathered for prayer in the church every night and I had the privilege of leading that and like what you're doing there is you are you are pointing to something beyond it's not a well here's the answer another day and all right have all the answers because I think maybe there could be this perception that we struggle at times with what you know how could God or how could a God do this but you even as a bishop you know and a priest now spoke to them in the past sometimes you have to answer those questions yourself and find the answers through your prayer or through your faith but you know you've you're a critical thinker and sometimes you go and say well why would this happen well what is the what is the what is the purpose of this and and of yourself you do not have an answer like that you can't you know like it it's not like something that you can say either to yourself or to somebody else and they're convinced they say oh yes of course why did I not see that of course it's not like that but we as as Christians have to speak to to to a reality that is not seen that we don't see that you don't get with your intellect but that faith tells us about and and and and this is not an abdication of of critical thinking it's a stepping into another world that at various times in our lives we are able to affirm in the in the moment of the greatest crisis probably not I I do remember actually it was that other awful tragedy that have that that happened while I was here was the four young men remember who who died in in the car crash and I was reminded of something that I found the words to say that that spoke was I remember saying at one of the removals to the people that I expect that you may not be able to pray at this time and don't be surprised at that and and don't be don't be worried about it we will pray for you and and as human beings we are very limited we never have all the answers in our moments of crisis we have maybe no answers and we feel totally lost but we're part of something bigger and there are others there with us when I'm down you're up when you know and that's part of it and that's staying within within the ambit of just ourselves then we faith that there's a spiritual reality that's bigger and beyond us entirely and we reach out into that I mean obviously you formed some really strong friendships here one of my highlights was was with the two bishops calling calling into studio because I think he's both worked very very well together is that sort of that that friendship that cooperation unusual is it unusual or is it something that you managed to achieve yourselves I mean as you saw Bishop Andrew and I we just we get on very naturally and we don't see each other that often but there just has come a bond he and I wanted and he contacted me at the time of you know when the mega crisis I mean it's funny we're just naming it it's one after the other he wanted to come and that we would we would be there together and and and we went and stood outside some of the houses you know fallen apart and we had the experience of the bricks crumbling in our hands we wanted to do that together and it was really effective that we did so is it now there's an element of personal chemistry between me and him but I and and and we Catholic clergy and and the Church of Ireland and the Presbyterian clergy here in letter Kenny get on really well and and no like before my time obviously my goodness you know like when I was a child I I remember going up to the door of a Protestant church and looking in and really my goodness I would never go in there you know God didn't listen it was another time and that that's how it wasn't thank God it's gone do you have to to some extent forego connections to this area if you know what I mean to fully commit to your new post as Bishop of Down and Connor I mean you can't or maybe you can this is a question not a statement but do you have to emotionally move on as well you know I'm not saying do you have to you know block people on Facebook do you do you sort of have to say right you know to some extent I kind of have to start a fresh in my new post listen I wish you wouldn't ask me that you know but in a certain set yeah well like I have to give my I'm the Bishop of Down I'm asking you because I know actually sometimes priests have to how they do you know like back to your very first question about you know how there's it right now think I last night I was there in the cathedral with with hundreds of people of former a fool and just feeling such a bond with them it was amazing no if I'm to be a good Bishop of Down and Connor someday in the not too distant future please God I will have that bond with them and and like wouldn't that be great please God I will where they are my life and you know I wear this ring on my finger that I never dreamt I was going to wear a ring on on my ring finger and it represents my desire to be united closely with my people and starting like officially and formally on the 19th of March and then the 14th of April the people of Down and Connor are going to be my people emotionally yes yes I am and then of course you know you struck a work life balance here if I can call yes yes yes yes you know which often isn't factored in as well because you have to have your downtime as well downtime you know plenty of downtime and Connor time for that matter yes I hear a caller says does the Bishop leave knowing that the door of the church in relation to abuse to date is fully opened and addressed no I did you know I think it is such a it is such a I mean that this is a cataclysmic thing and then in our history and goodness I couldn't say yes it's come but everything is everything is sorted no no I cannot say that but please God just with the passage of time it will be that people who have not been able to come forward will come forward things will be addressed but and the church has to be seen in a way that someone can come forward absolutely yes you believe the church is in that position I am more be done or more could always be done more yeah those questions are they shouldn't be asked of course more could be done but it's a case of it has to be done yes yes yes what is the situation in terms of your replacement when we were getting a load oh yeah I think you can guess oh yeah not sure it's quite like that no right it is what is the process there how long might it take and what happens in the interim well well first of all what happens in the interim when I am when I'm formally the day I am either the Bishop or the Apostolic Administrator of Rufu until I am formally the Bishop of Darren and Connor and when that happens there's a group of consultants priests of the diocese who are whom I appointed as consultants my consultants they meet and they choose a priest of the diocese to be the administrator he will have much of the effort he will not be a bishop but he will have much of the authority of a bishop to to to keep the thing going so that's what will happen and in the in the interim there will be diocesan administrator appointed the process is run by the Apostolic Nuncio he will he will be writing out to many people priests and lay people who know something of the diocese will write to bishops and ask for suggestions about who would make a good bishop and he will gather a big list of names and then I think start whittling that down by asking more specifically for people's judgment before God about the suitability of this or that priest or this or that priest to be the Bishop and to be specifically the Bishop of this diocese it ends up where there is a list of three names with a dossier that is sent to Rome there is a congregation known as the congregation of bishops that deal with those and the after discussion at that level the prefect of that it's called a dichastory now but that of that group the dichastory for bishops goes to the Holy Father and presents this list of three names to him and he does decide I don't look like there are hundreds of these every year but I have reason to believe that the Pope very actively as I say he examines these things closely he asked some questions and now he could say I don't want any of those three go away and start again it is you asked earlier you said earlier on that the question was put to you you know will you be or do you want to be or however it was raised the Bishop down and Connor could you ever decline that you could oh yeah the question do you accept but I mean there's two answers to that so like was the do you see that as a test that was given to you well because no you know you're making a decision which which is going to cause obviously perhaps great opportunity but also great personal suffering yes which you brought me to some extent it was put on you but you also brought it to yourself it so in other words this it was this was this a test that question well no test is is putting maybe too much in the spiritual test no but but it's like a man could well say listen for reasons that you obviously do not understand I'm not suitable for this you know like so yeah at this moment in my life for reasons known only to me and under in my soul in my heart I know I'm not the person that you do this and my answer is no and that has to be respected now I know that if it happens the people nuncio he will be very crestfallen because he's gonna have to go back and start this whole thing all over again I have hundreds of messages which will read out and maybe get to you at some point wish you're wishing Bishop Alan all the best I watched as a young boy stepped forward to speak to Bishop Alan last night after mass while you were walking around the side of the key to think the cathedral that's the heart you've touched it was lovely to see that young boy going to speak to you which I think is particularly nice that's what jumped out at me and of course there was a poem written about you in the story of her life we spoke in the past about you know you becoming a priest and what have you I suppose I wanted to focus on you know just over six years ago on words that's all the time we have Bishop McGockey and but unanimously people are sending in love good wishes and compliments to you I suppose just I'll leave the last word to you with it I it has been the great privilege of my life it's been a very challenging privilege but nonetheless the great privilege of my life I have come to love Donegal and the people of Donegal I leave I leave happy but sad at the same time so that I want to say thank you to you Greg I have been here you have spoken and questioned me honestly and fairly and I really appreciate that okay thank you Bishop I do appreciate it we wish you all the best good luck best I don't know the right phraseology but anyway we just wish you the very best with your move to the Bishop of Down to be Bishop of Down and Connor and there's no doubt I think that our areas loss is down and Connors gain thank you thank you very much for your time today