 Good day, my lovely listeners! You are listening to the Forty Autie podcast. Tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and insightful information that dive headfirst into the world of autism and mental health. With all those tantalising tongue twisters out of the way, let's get into the show. Good day to you all and welcome back to the Forty Autie podcast, the Autism and Mental Health podcast, season two of course, the big two. I was gonna come up with something witty to say there but anyways, we're on with it, we're all set up, we're all golden, peachy keen and it is a pretty mild day here in the UK today, just giving you your local weather forecast and we currently have some lovely avians scouring about in the roof of our house. They seem to love to nest in our roof when it comes to around springtime so I've got to put up with a lot of sensory noise that I don't want but they are beautiful things. So today we are going to be talking about autism, of course. Again, we're going to be talking about special needs education, SEN schools versus mainstream schools. The representative of the mainstream schools will be myself, particularly around secondary school and Mason is going to talk about what it was like for him to grow up in secondary school education in a special needs school, an SEN school. After my incredibly painful and long introduction Mason, how are you doing today? I'm doing good, I'm doing well. Thank you for asking me to come on. Of course, it's from my end of things, it seems to be that you are really getting into the podcasting scene, producing lots and lots of podcasts which I could not hope to do because I am incredibly disorganised. I try to keep me busy. I try to do multiple weeks and I try to do as many as I can and I do a schedule in time so there's episodes going out each week so it keeps me occupied and I probably ramble myself. It's okay, it's a rambling podcast. Rambling is very welcome here. Or monologuing as some people like to call it. Tell us a little bit about your podcast, the kind of stuff that you do, the kind of things that you talk about with your guests, let us in on the secret. Okay, well for those who don't know what my podcast is, it's called Crying to Nord Autism Awareness Advocate and we vary episodes about different topics. Lately we've been doing autism based episodes for Awareness Month which is the time we record in this. It is Awareness Month so episodes going out every day. It's the first time. Every day? Yeah, every day. Every day this month. Good Lord. That's the first time I've ever done anything like that on the podcast. It sounds like hell. I don't know how you do that, Mason. The idea actually came up to me at the end of I think it was February. Yeah, the end of February the idea came to mind and I thought I've got to be really organised to do this because I've got a whole month to get about lots of episodes in and then when I ask a person and then they cancel, I get worried because I'm thinking that episode could lead up to another one. Especially if you're doing it daily you must be constantly emailing and DMing and trying to organise people. I know that it can be quite difficult sometimes especially when both the podcast host and the guest are both autistic and struggle with executive functioning and anxiety and stuff. Sometimes it can be quite rough to try and nail down an interview when make sure everybody's in a good headspace before it. Yeah, I make it as comfortable as I can for people. Some people want questions in advance, some people don't. With mine it's more like a coffee cut chat or something. Yeah, that's what we like. Other than that, I updated the logo to start this year. The added on was mental health kind of added on to it and chronic illnesses because speaking about Crohn's and what I have as well as autism kind of talked to people about different chronic illnesses as well. It is interesting because people that have come on to have autism so sometimes talk about problems in the body and stuff so it's quite a relevant show. Stuff like interception, sensory processing. I can see why and I know there's a high correlation between autism and IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. A lot of things related to diet but I haven't necessarily read anything about Crohn's and autism. Considering it's a disease, I can imagine that it causes quite a lot of issues fit for use of living day today and trying to manage that alongside mental health. The difficulties of being autistic, that kind of thing. It sounds like it could be, as with many disorders, cumulative sort of on your mental health in general. Yeah, I've met probably two, I've had Crohn's and autism and it's quite rare for that and IBD and actually IBS get, even in the Crohn's communities and stuff, people kind of get them mixed up but because they've got the similarities but they are different things. What one is like just the inflammation and one is am I right in thinking Crohn's is the autoimmune disease where your immune system attacks your digestive system, is that? Yeah, that explains Crohn's quite well. Like flare ups and it's like it's taking yourself all bread inside and in a way why autism and Crohn's between them because there's a stigma between the two about how people see you and like they say you don't look like you have Crohn's, you don't look like you have your autistic, you get a lot in your autism community as well. So although they're once in illness and once not, they are two topics why I created the podcast to help me, help with my mental health I think that has helped my mental health because having a condition that dams my immune system and kind of having more time to do that, it kind of helps speak to different people and meeting new people. You learn stuff as well don't you? It's sometimes very eye-opening because you have I think to do with autism a lot of the scientific literature doesn't really give you a good representation of what autism is because for example with autism the diagnostic criteria are so they're based on external sort of behaviours. There's a lot of sort of grey areas that research and science hasn't really explored so sometimes like talking to people gives you, you know, getting that experiential knowledge often does a lot for you know your life and sort of things for you. Now we move on to the main questions. So the questions around special needs education versus mainstream. It's not a battle, we're not trying to debate which one's best, we're just giving our own personal experiences from different outlooks on education. So the thing that I really want to ask is what was your mainstream school experience like before you switched to SCN education like did you have any difficulties or additional needs that weren't being met or were met? Yeah well my mainstream school situation before I actually moved is a good question because I suppose I haven't really spoken about that much to different people I've pointed out different things about how bad it was but yeah it's a really good question. Is that parents, parents and or teachers or friends? Like it was it wasn't nice at all because teachers didn't understand, possibly try to make say things to parents to make them happy and stuff because and yeah like I have was given work it wasn't kind of my levels and stuff and yeah like me my autism I wasn't confident really definitely wasn't confident and I wasn't making many friends. I took sarcasm quite literally back then. Yeah of course you did. Yeah I took sarcasm quite literally so things that people say to me I don't know if they were my friend yeah or they were been serious or if they've been serious in a jokey way it's very hard. That's a really interesting one that's the that's the kind of the thoughts about oh you know if you can't really distinguish exactly what someone's trying to say in what way and the context and stuff then it could be that people are making fun of you or bullying you or you know it's it's a very sort of ambiguous realm so communication at that age. Definitely definitely like would you like me to talk to you through a couple of difficult experiences where shows that teachers didn't understand at mentoring? Of course that would be you know obviously if it's something that you're you're comfortable and happy speaking about. Yeah so one afternoon just before lunchtime I said after lunch go out outside the library and stuff so me and a couple of people did it and we would stand there about 15 minutes and we stay there and we're thinking why no one else turned up like 15 minutes and no one this was here and then I thought just to walk back just to see if anyone's in there like why are we getting made to wait up here if no one's turned up so walk back and then the first thing the teacher says is where have you been you're late and then I'm thinking to myself you told us to go to the library and that wasn't there was communication there and bearing in mind this class this specific class is in the mainstream school the area where some more people need help like additional needs and stuff so and then the teacher said that you've got a detention and I don't normally get the tensions I normally do it from right I like to do everything as best as I can and yeah and then I wasn't really happy by that whole attention and the following day had a year actually came in talked to all of us who was outside the library and his tone of voice wasn't very nice no he said why were you all late to lesson and me my anxiety won't write up where you're speaking and everything and what he's what I said I just did what I thought was right there's obviously miscommunication it's almost like my brain was on fire at this point because I didn't want to I didn't like the way of speaking and Mason now Mason how he is now would say something well how are you doing you told you told me to do this why are you expecting me to do something else if if you told me to do that yeah I don't understand why the head of year did get involved considering it was a teacher thing but luckily what about the the other students that the students who turned up at their the lesson and and and sort of didn't listen to the the library instruction how did they go back I think we were all in the same book like I think we all got the attention and the head of you ended up saying you're let off this time and and stuff and then yeah it wasn't very nice about that and then that was one incident another incident well not so an incident something really silly that I thought because you know in like mainstream school you wear these tires don't you and everything I struggled to put them on I could never do it like I would ask all the time for help to put one of the ties on the fine fine motor skill difficulties yeah yeah and I always asked drama room for example and he said that you can't do it like if he couldn't do it I was kind of shocked because me thinking then is he actually not one to do it or one thing he said he said he's not allowed to do it that was really good to me he's not allowed to do it and that didn't make sense and that's your job help people yeah do things that they struggle with and and they come to the point where people were just watching me struggle not just that particular teacher other teachers were asking me and then I got to the point where I was just running out to school gates quickly get in the car go home and say so to my dad quickly drive drive drive because I was that anxious and that really nervous about those kind of things that yeah that I knew that they were gonna watch me struggle like and I said I can't do it and that's awful and like other situations about getting lost and stuff in the in the actual school and yeah a teacher that I particularly I'll get on to the people in a minute which which many people I don't know if and experience the same thing but that can't ease back into sarcasm a little bit one time I had I was struggling and I wasn't asking anyone teacher come up to me which is was a kind of P teacher said well you're not unless and I said I'm lost he said I've got your diary like like map and I could tell from his body language he didn't want to be here he didn't want to help me and I said if you've got someone to better be do it and then and then he asked me what classroom I was going to and of course I said I don't know but I don't know what classroom I don't know where it is and then he kind of left up there we were quite sort of high anxiety you know sort of bored bored and meltdown kind of yeah state yeah quite a lot of meltdowns and especially with lockers and stuff like that and like situations in the room they would give you a certain time limit to get change yeah and then which I didn't like and what you said it they said if you're not ready in a minute it's weird you know because as soon as you go in the payroom they say you've got one minute to get ready but I don't think anyone get ready in one minute but the thing I'm really raised my desire was said if you've 30 seconds if you don't you're gonna get locked in they said they said you get locked in and then obviously you took to that as taught on the chin and said that that's literally what they're going to do yeah yeah I didn't like I didn't like that and like you run out run out with your pants on yeah yeah no honestly like like all of the points that you've made a kind of you know they're alluding to different traits of of being autistic you know you've got the fine motor stuff around around the ties you've got the the communication choices you know probably most most sane people would be able to gather that if you've got a student who struggles of anxiety probably not the best thing to do is to put them in a spot in front of everybody and and get them to be the center of attention just in general for anyone with anxiety and then then there's also sort of the the literal thinking kind of aspect of it taking taking people by the word you know that that first example that I mean to me that mostly screams incompetent teacher to give instructions and then not not take ownership of that and you know not not believe you it's it's kind of it's weird isn't it teachers have this you have to sort of put on a different persona just like you would with with podcasts and YouTube videos and sometimes the persona that you put on as a teacher that that persona for some people is is quite ruthless you know you got one minute to do this is like don't do that or you get an attention detention immediately any any sniffles or or anything like that and you're off to the clanger you know and some teachers are like that and if I think sort of the the main if if I'd be alright say that you know the main thing is is that they they didn't understand or listen to you about certain things they actually had when I was there which I've said before I'd be really trying to go back to there see if anything different happening and they had isolation unit there so some people who get like that this strike she I think they did and if you get the most you go in this isolation unit which can be really I suppose isolating of course but really bad and people's mental health going on there so so yeah like my experience in that this was only a year by the way this was only one year yeah and I mentioned all these different things that happened and just to fit in the the loneliness aspects the anxiety there they're not being understood by by teachers and other people it's on it sounds sounds really awful I have a similar I have a similar experience with PE this is why I chuckled there was this one time where I got a detention that actually went on my record it was because I take a long time to get dressed to shower to clean to cook to do to do any of that those those kind of tasks it takes me a long time to do them and it requires a lot of mental energy and there was a textiles DT lesson that can't remember what DT stands for design technology something something like that yeah well then this so that this teacher was was yeah they were an okay teacher they weren't the best there were a bit sort of laissez-faire kind of attitude to things and I was late one lesson after after PE because I struggle in the communal changing rooms getting changed in particular so it used to take me a long time and it was only after everybody had left or you know there's a few people left in in that that changing room that I actually you know started to pull myself together and and get changed and stuff and I remember the absolute hellfire that I received just for being late to a textiles lesson and they hadn't even done anything they were just chatting they were just like there was there was no I didn't miss out on any part of my education for that but you know you talking about your experiences does just kind of help me sort of remember this this was kind of the the early stages of secondary school for me but I mean as far as mainstream experiences for me there's a whole list of them like I don't think anybody's under the guise that secondary school is a is a good place for autistic people even mainstream schools there's so much potential for for bullying for isolation for public humiliation for perhaps not not having the right learning style to be engaged with the classroom the anxiety of the mental health that there's the sensory aspects of being in a wide open corridor being a wide open corridors in a in a big school like thinking about it just kind of makes my skin crawl because that environment is very very overwhelming but actually another situation which is really anxiety and everything like even lunch time and because there'll be lots of people in queues and everything caring for their lunch and I remember had this like thumb pass or something like that that you could all do your lunch off it was like automatically and it can't and the money goes into your account yeah yeah yeah on the school and everything and I always got anxious about that because I'm not best with money and maths really that's probably one of the things I do struggle with and going against the autism stereotypes Mason yeah yeah yeah and that the queues and I don't like crowds and and it like that I don't like being close contact which is why I love social distance when it was beautiful social distancing yeah I was very depressed the day that I that I went out for a walk and people didn't move at least two meters away from me while I was walking as of the days but now did yeah I'd agree of you I think you know a lot of the experiences that you shared are very similar to what I've experienced with with mainstream sec secondary schools I would say it's it's a bit more it's a bit different for primary school because I was a very sort of bubbly happy-go-lucky kind of kid like I found everything funny and I was always laughing at everything and annoying the teachers and annoying my peers and I had a good friend who was also called Tom who we used to like mess around and laughed and giggle to ourselves about random stuff and it was it was only it was only at the age of about 10 which I think was just kind of exit exiting the primary school kind of age going into high school or secondary school and you know at age I wasn't really very aware of things I struggled in new situations like if I was going to a new club or going to a party or doing something out of my routine I definitely struggled with those sensory aspects at school one of the funny things about primary school for me in mainstream primary school was that I could read before I went to primary school but like really well I could do maths since I went to primary school didn't do any of it did poorly on all of the tests didn't didn't pay attention to classes didn't do anything like that so primary school actually had a really negative impact on my learning though the one the one saving grace for me was a card game called Yu-Gi-Oh and if you know about Yu-Gi-Oh the you have like different effects for it for each of the the cards that you can have and you have to read them you have to understand them and you have to read the rules and you have to do calculations based on how many attack and defense points you have it was it was a very simplistic game when I was that age it's it's a lot more complex than that now but that was what got me back into education just a card game I loved a lot my special interest I had a lot of instances where I didn't go on with other other kids they they tended to use me as a bit of a fool you know the village fool because I was so gullible and energetic and happy and and all that kind of stuff and I took people for the word for it and they got me to to do a lot of things in front of people at parties or in front of schools or in front of the the general public that were not good lots of expletives basically lots of rude words to shout out and call people which I didn't know anything about at that age but I got punished for it quite quite badly on a couple of occasions so I think you know in general it was it wasn't it wasn't too bad of an experience for me mainstream primary I don't know what mainstream S.E.N. schools primary school age S.E.N. primary schools would be like do you have much much experience in an S.E.N. primary school or do they kind of just like merge primary and secondary together I went like I started off my from young to about phase year six and last year in primary isn't it and then I transferred to mainstream for that year but my primary school experience wasn't I didn't really enjoy it already because for some reason no one liked me and I don't know why and I probably had that one friend that wasn't really my friend and I thought they were but they wasn't yeah and yeah like when you spoke about Yu-Gi-Oh it kind of reminded me because I remember in mainstream everyone was collecting Yu-Gi-Oh getting Yu-Gi-Oh cars and I kind of started out as white dragon yeah I summon Exodia I got I started to fit in I suppose and oh you did yeah and I I collected them I got off to go to this place in town where they actually play the game and and stuff so yeah okay like a games club kind of thing yeah yeah I did that I did that with match attack cards the football cards because I wasn't interested in football never really have been but I collect to the cards simply for the reason that they were shiny and I like the look of them I had this Alan share a card that I got from a card back and I was like oh my god it's a shiny Alan share I was like everyone everyone wanted it off me and I was like no no it's my it's all shiny nice you can have all these boring card card yeah colored cards I remember that in prime school it's all about matter check it wasn't like people say like you're daring when you're booking because you're phrasing one of them it was it was either cards or stickers or weird miniatures that you collect or there was this there's one way like wound up it was like kind of like a mini Beyblade that you're just gonna wound onto it and onto like a spring-loaded thing and then press the top in it I used to love doing that collecting and yeah there'd be there's a World Cup this year so no doubt there'd be a sticker book for that but I think I feel like it's an all-inclusive thing because the only prerequisite for interacting with other people is to talk about the thing that you're doing and I found those social interactions a lot easier and you touched a little bit on your experience sort of transferring from mainstream to special schools what I want to ask is why did it happen well I mean I can I can imagine why but why did it happen and what was your your experience of that transition I was like because every day after mainstream after school at mainstream school it was I get asked I've had a good day and of course I'd say no there might be one good day maybe I've had a really good day I've done really good stuff yeah it was rare that happened I enjoyed I did at mainstream I love some of the teachers like the math teachers we left at that year at the same day me and this math teacher we got on they said uh I'm leaving I was like I'm sorry going to better places yeah yeah and like I'd love to I can't I actually remember his name and it'd be nice to I suppose me or get in contact again or something yeah um but yeah that that transition and it was tough because going to a special school is very limited on spaces yeah um and it's very hard because you need the personal statement you need the HCP you need all that kind of educational health health care plan yeah that's it that's it and I looked at multiple schools and the one that sounded out for me yeah it stood out for me I I went there had a look look around and it was good it was good and had an induction day and yeah it was really good and beginning after Christmas time in year eight it would have been yeah just after Christmas year eight I go there had to enjoy some of it how did you find the interaction between um yourself and other other students and yourself and the teachers I think firstly it was really hard because I didn't know anyone I was like the new kid so um it was really hard people I thought they really talked to me and then then there's one person that was a bit me and and stuff so I thought is this any different um so that process it was really hard to start with and then I suppose it's kind of a bit a lot more more unknown at this point you know you you go in and you're you're in a new environment new people new new teachers new students new focus yeah actually the school wasn't actually it moved the school moved to another place and which I was getting settled in this one and then the actual school to build a new one and then get used to that one I don't I don't know what what kind of CP human was able to to pull that off yeah yeah in a special need school it's a very good school and um yeah my my experience was very good I kind of I made quite a lot of friends as well and that was good making friends there and and stuff and I had football court and stuff had club you can go to football tournaments no also rush although they tell you that you should be in PE but it's not as much rush that it was before I mean from from from from my experience looking at looking at special needs schools and from looking at special needs schools from the teacher standpoint of me me going going in and being a teaching assistant it does seem that like a lot of the education and growth that happens tends to be a lot less less spiky like uh in mainstream it's all about the the results and the grades and not misbehaving and just kind of getting on with stuff and getting marks and that that kind of thing and sort of attending lessons whereas special needs schools tend to be a lot you know because you have stuff like the educational healthcare plan which focuses on stuff outside of educational and performance like things to do with your functioning and the things that you find hard um tailoring the things that perhaps you're good at you know and sort of molding molding lessons around things that you like a bit more is that something that something that you've you experienced at in an SCN school like what what are the positive differences that that you saw when comparing your SCN experience to your mainstream i think what was good was how the teachers were how they were supportive and and stuff that which i didn't experience in in mainstream like maybe some help but not like every few seconds maybe a teacher checking up something doing all right and and stuff like that um being attentive to to the things that you might find hard yeah and sometimes i would struggle and even even special in the special school i would hide that everyone else is doing all right in the class and i wouldn't as i say i needed that help um so my confidence wasn't still wasn't high but as the years went by and that in special school that got really good so it was it was very good and yeah uh i am more confident than i used to have been i think that can happen to people as they grow up right yeah i mean from what from my standpoint what i'm hearing is that the the things that really made a bit big impact for you and your experience was the the little things the you know consideration of your needs the things that you find hard offering offering light bits of support when you need it you're asking if you're okay what a bizarre concept in a mainstream school unless you're bawling your eyes out or screaming your arse down yeah yeah yeah you don't get asked do you no like um there are more better things to focus about like getting the work done they want to go home more or less the teachers do i've got a class today but the teachers at mainstream like special enjoy it they don't like they enjoy it i enjoyed to get and having more friends people looking up on me as the years went by um which i haven't really experienced before before that and that must have been a really yeah really great feeling it's um yeah i don't know it's it's really hard for me to imagine i think when i was in primary school or that that kind of age my mom tended to um sort of link up with other parents who had autistic children um just for me to to to make friends with someone who was autistic as well and um that worked out really well in a lot of cases it was always the parents that were the issue um i got on quite well with other autistic people you know it's it's it's bizarre for me to think of a situation where i had autistic friends at a mainstream school i imagine it would have made things a lot easier i think what could what would have made it even better is if people just had a baseline understanding of what autism is and uh the type the type of things that we struggle with and and that kind of thing it would give a lot more of a good framework for for sort of identifying things for yourself things that you find hard and feeling comfortable expressing the things that you're finding hard to teachers and actually getting a response from that yeah um i i i had teachers definitely in mainstream that were like that but there were few and far between there wasn't a lot of them who really sort of understood me and who i am and you know what i can do if i'm given the right environment you know those those teachers were often my my safe haven you know in a lot of cases you know the rest of the school day even lunchtimes and breaks were always fraught with the possibility of being picked on or you know all the noise and the sensory stuff so really the only times that i felt comfortable in secondary school mainstream was in lessons with teachers that i liked or in the library playing games on the computer um i um well i did make one friend in mainstream um and it was a similar part to me not me making the new friends and stuff and i left or i left him felt bad because he was the only friend and he was going to struggle um so i got to special school like a few years later he actually joined like helping to get him in there and that was good like he's good he's good to be there and everything so yeah that one friend i still speak to him now like he always keep in contact like um it's good to hear that's very rare these days what i found yeah keeping keeping friends for a long like no no matter about relationships and dating and stuff like that like keeping a friends that's that's um yeah like i like i don't know about you but i like friends that who don't get funny about if you don't message them every day and like you talk yeah one month to another and like you just talked yesterday or something yeah yeah no it's it's it's always my best friends the ones that i don't talk to well it's it's that i know that the the they don't think it's because i don't want to talk to them it's just because you know i've i spend each day of my waking hours at work sending emails to people communicating having meetings and then i come off from my job and i have my social media stuff to do i've got to message people i've got to organize things and go to events and plan and and you know all of that no matter whether you're autistic or not it's it's quite overwhelming um socially i would say i i'd say that it's probably a lot more difficult when you're autistic and you have more of an introverted inclination um you know that that having to constantly water and maintain multiple different relationships that you have or you know it's it's exhausting um it can be really exhausting and and sometimes all all you need is a person that says hey don't worry about it we'll talk when we talk yeah i still have some good friends that from social school that i still speak to of course i've left i've left that now and um they did actually have a college um attached to the special school yeah um and i went there and then i got a good my confidence to go to a mainstream college um which i see when you went to a mainstream college after yeah yeah after the special schools college because that it was attached it was yeah um at different place but and people teachers from the school would work so you know the people and stuff but they didn't really have i suppose it was just to see the experience and they didn't really have anything like courses that i was interested in because it was numbing everything um i did a catering course which i didn't enjoy really because i can't imagine why why why you didn't enjoy it no it didn't cook much to be fair like i remember once um because the catering teacher wasn't in and it was World IBD day and um if actually about disease day and for for people have crying and and different things we my cakes i was a teacher we went to the kitchen baked cakes and sold them in aid for charity um which was which was good and i i asked him before and he i don't think he agreed but um but yeah i did presentations i've done presentations as well and and different things that got me out my comfort zone so i've enjoyed that but from my experience to go to that special um that mainstream day because of i think i was there a year good first year but the second year covid happened so i kind of had to move away from that kind of setting because everybody has understanding like if the government says you've got to go in you've got to go in so um they don't understand that concept of being vulnerable with um with my crimes they had no idea and stuff but they wanted me to go in and pressurizing about that so um i made some new friends there as well so and stuff but from there um i moved to a more one that does more work from home so i can do my work from home easily um and not get the pressure to to come in and it is it is hard still because the colors don't have they have air conditioning but like windows to open and stuff to know as ventilation are are anything so best i'll do my work from home but at one point i want to say between special schools there is always going to be a positive and a negative um there's not always going to be um i don't want like people listening to think that it's it is good mainstream school really good like we all have our different experiences because some people do have autism and they do really well in mainstream so it's really hard but in my experience there's a few of them that i've met strange creatures yeah yeah like there was a situation um i got the attention for it's quite funny actually i laugh at it and i did laugh at it when i when i had it and had a little conversation um there was a science teacher there that was more of a mainstream teacher but was there in a setting as a special like the special school taught science and one lesson i knew we wasn't going to use our pencil cases anything so on purpose i didn't bring it um and we was on the computers the whole lesson and the science teacher said mason where is your um we're sitting down i want the computers everything and she said uh you probably know where's your pencil case and pen and and stuff mason i said no i don't have it um i left it in class and she said uh you're supposed to bring it every lesson and i said yeah i know but we're not using it that's that's not on computers um and she said you've got the attention and of course been of course i went to it and i said i i went out the door i said i had a bit of an argument because i wasn't happy um i want to get my point across um the point of view sand i don't know why this is a situation which i didn't like because in that pacific lesson she gives a tea a person that um i pen i pen the pencil and i think that that's a bit odd a bit wrong in fact because you're telling me i got a detention when someone else forgot theirs like the pencils or stuff and you're giving it to them and i said that to her um and she she she said um oh you don't i was not going to give you one anyway so i got my point across which is you have to do sometimes that's that's that's really good though because you had you had the confidence to really approach it in a in a logical sort of matter of fact way do you think you would have been able to do the same if you're in a mainstream school i think no because no i don't think i would have like there were some scary teachers in mainstream school like it's really aggressive as well isn't it how they come across and be um it feels like that there shouldn't be like that it should be like they should get in serious trouble for that stuff i think if they speak to you that manner because your student and they're the teacher and that should treat you in a formal way um i've i've heard of people who they've been um locked in a cupboard before by a teacher in a mainstream school i think you know one one thing to draw back on is the the fact that you know you've got to think i i had an experience for a year of being a special needs teacher teaching assistant i was i was involved with helping out with classes that had both autistic and non-autistic people in and i have to say it is very very difficult like i would i would love to say to you that you know me having my autistic lived experience i would be able to just jump in there work my magic that everything will be hunky dory but it's it's not like that and it's you know whilst my experiences have helped in a lot of circumstances particularly when it's been quite quite a difficult um quite difficult circumstances i really struggled to maintain my sanity my mental health um in that environment because it's literally like having a school day all over again but you're responsible for children at the same time and you need to teach them things and you need to organize yourself in like this being a teacher it's it's a very overlooked profession because it doesn't pay well for how much work that you have to put in really in a lot of circumstances that i don't think i could fault the individual teachers on it you know if if it was built into the school if it was part of the lessons to learn about autism part of teacher training to be aware of autism and being able to teach autistic people who were more than likely going to be in somewhere in that school then it would be a lot better if we had all of that um and and you know maybe you could you could pull teachers up and say you know you didn't you know you didn't you didn't think about their needs in this situation but it's the the governing part of the school that that is usually from my experience the issue if it if it stems from a place of understanding and awareness and and action and reasonable adjustments then it tends to be a lot better across the board and you you will have any specific teacher that will you know just that nice human being who listens to you and makes adjustments you don't need to try and find that that needle in the haystack they're already there they're around you so i i really did want to just you know bring people's attention to that because it is it is hard being a teacher and um you know it's a very stressful job and i can imagine that it's it's very hard on their psyches you know dealing with all the parents and uh the the upper boughs and the kids and the miss you know the kids that make it difficult for you it is it is very difficult you know i i would like you know for us to kind of shift our shift our focus from individual teachers to the the school system basically yeah you can imagine the pressure not saying i'm not saying that you'll you'll have you have teachers who aren't assholes and aren't idiots and um can't take any personal responsibility for what they say there's always going to be people like that whether they're teachers or not that's it and like our teachers have um like parents evening if they have they say they're child parents child hasn't been good they're gonna be thinking wait what sometimes um as a whole i do think the education system it's just has a long way to go and there's lots of improvements that need to be made really i think i think one of the main issues is that it's very very slyly akin to a prison um yeah that's that that's a good education it's it's it's or education in general you are a prisoner basically i'm a soldier isn't i yeah like being the little soldier um i believe that the the school system you know with all the bells and the the ties and the suits and stuff that originally it was it was it was molded around the idea of the perfect factory worker um which is you know something in history so it's it's worth like thinking thinking back to where where the roots of this is it's not about getting you a job that you want it's about molding you into someone who's amenable and who will fulfill a role that that other people don't want to do kind of thing that's that's the the anarchist inside of me anarchist speaking um but anyway i digress one thing one thing that that really made an impact or really pete my attention when you were speaking was that you said that you went to a mainstream college because you know i was i was going to ask you about the the the negative aspects of being in a in a special needs school you know like typically the things that i think of as being negatives or possible negatives could be some things around skills or perhaps um the the level of education that you get uh these are these are all just un unfactual things that that just have been made apparent to me from being in mainstream and teaching in in special needs and talking to various people and talking to my mom um who's a big s e n lead wonderful woman i think i think the main things for me would be the skills the level of education perhaps some of the experiences that you you didn't have around the very mainstream related things like and and and sort of the main thing for me would be experience interacting with people who aren't autistic that are your age that are your peers you know it's not just for autistic people like there's different differences um in people a variety of different differences amongst people at special needs schools well what do you think about that do you think that do you feel like special needs education prepared you enough um to interact with non-autistic people in your adult life i think so yeah because i didn't know many autistic people till i was there like you have people that got autism like me um the whole different environment because like mainstream like i said soldier it's exactly that because i remember if head of year come in the class you all have to stop what you're doing and it's it's like the queen's shut yeah that's it that's it um big man coming through everybody bow down yeah that's it that's it and the diversity says or quite a consequence that then that's what it was and and my special needs environment is much better because you you can be free there's sensory rams there's soft play which even though i even near enough leaving i thought i love doing like going sensory rams kind of soft play rams it's lovely um and yeah there's resources available yeah you're going to melt down you can go out the classroom which was very understanding i i got but one thing i didn't like was say i was going to the library i was just sitting there and i needed time at the class so i'd get off by certain teachers why am i here like because the printer is in the library so um yeah people go in there collect stuff and things and like when i had i was in the flat i was um i still wanted to go in when i was in pain from my my crimes and teacher asked if i wanted to go to the library and i said no because i know people's gonna ask why i'm here so i don't want that stress is a it's a trigger for me and like pain yeah so so that'll make it worse and i didn't want that and i didn't want to react bad to a person because i probably would have and i didn't want that and yeah i just don't like getting asked i'm on the relevant questions really unnecessary social interaction yeah just do what you're doing i'll do what i'm doing and get off of our day i mean i can i can definitely see interactions a lot of the things that i've experienced in secondary school which were awful and traumatizing were from other students although although it has impacted my mental health quite quite vastly it did give me a sense of what it's like to deal with someone who is not good or someone who is is mean and horrible and selfish and well i wouldn't say i wouldn't say evil because evil's a strong word but um committing evil acts upon the themselves themselves what we're talking about thyself myself oh upon me you know what i mean um but you know i i i built up a level of resilience to those types of people i i suppose you know what my my question is is really related to what what i asked about communication and stuff do you feel like you're able to cope with people who are unkind and and nasty i think i used to really take offense to people being unkind and nasty when i was younger and stuff not accepting being of having autism but but now i think i don't like if someone says something bad to say about me i will say like if they don't if they say something bad about me as a whole autism crime disease i will i will say um if it's online i'll block them of course um now and i won't take offense like now i'll i'll kind of say to him if you don't like me just don't say anything like you don't have to say anything like just go on with your dad go on with mine but i would don't take much offense to that now like i think it's only sometimes you think it's not worth to say something back no no of course yeah although we can really get to you like in the past and online videos um i've got some hate comments and and stuff nothing autism or related it's more between hobbies i do i do different videos for a show i like um dr hooman i i i i in past because i dress i reckon some i reckon some ears have been raised in the audience yeah dr who are they going to talk about dr who yeah maybe on another episode yeah yeah just just kind of relating that in just kind of relating that in to what we're talking about like we're through hateful comments and and taking it in and for when i first first got one like doing a video like that and i got really offended and and stuff and and people saying that you don't look like it like the actual character and the point was not to look like it trying to make it your own yeah um that's another hobby of mine acting i love it and i love doing it and that's helped me in pandemic and lockdowns as well as a personal podcast and yeah and then and now i like from that i just i blocked them and i sit there thinking i don't i don't know what to think about this like should i stop doing it and stuff and then then i think now i'm not gonna do it i'm not gonna stop just because one person that is many people like lots of other people that do like it and they've actually told me that and and mental health is key to that and and stuff so yeah to answer your question sorry for the little ramble but yeah i don't worry about it um to ask your question um no i don't get as planned as i used to be but um i think every once in a while we can but it's trying to learn that it's all that kind of thing seriously and not isn't it it's going back to that sarcasm thing yeah i um i i agree with you i think you know in most cases in in your adult life perhaps you have you have more of a level of control over who you interact with you're not just kind of putting this put in this big melting pot of students and teachers that you have to get on with or you have to deal with whereas you know in adult life you can pick and choose who you want to be friends with you can pick and choose who you want on your social media you can you can do all of those things that you know better suit surround yourself with people that you want to be around i find some difficulty with the crossover from school to the workplace because it's it's a very similar situation because you have a group of people in a melting pot and some people you have to talk to more than others and it's not always people that you want to talk to and that they really get you and what you work well with and and so it's not like you can just say all right take a hike i'm not talking to you you have to if you want to stay stay and work or if they're really bad so you have to file a complaint and you have to go for all that kind of horrible HR stuff you know for me it going back into into the workplace was kind of like going back to school in a in a sense and you know you can see that in the statistics because although perhaps someone who's more akin to Asperger's more more ASD one you know most people are average or above average intelligence for the most of it tend to have a lot of really great skills a lot of interests and um with diverse range of ideas and creativity and and things of that nature but they don't get jobs they're not employed there's a very small percentage of us who were employed you know it's it stands to sort of as a something that follows on from something i've got word block i was going to say predecessor but the opposite of predecessor word that is um the follow on shall we say of school um with all the bullying all the the difficulties all the being forced interactions that you have to have you know even even myself going going to a mainstream school and and being in higher education i found that really difficult to start with and that you know this is this is bearing in mind that i've i've dealt with people that i find hard to deal with for most of my life i've been around people that i don't want to be around in particular so that there is there is that difficulty around around workplaces because it's not as if you can personalize who you're around yeah yeah i think it's i'm really happy like you you brought that up about the workplace because it is um it's very important because like many people with autism find it hard and in general it is hard to get work isn't it like to find a job and disregarding all the interviews and yeah that kind of thing yeah yeah that night i um i went to a workplace um for experience before the pandemic and i was there a while today um and that was work experience on from my special school college i went on and then to the mainstream one as well kind of went on from it started again and none of them there had any idea of what autism is jesus um and i had to educate them i had to tell them what it is how to tell them my story saying that good on you it's not it's not the um not the same is it than me mine's not going to be the same as you so um we have similarities like as we've discussed today already we have some similarities in experience of different things that has happened but what the good thing is that they changed how the way they do things now this um there is there is some change isn't there there is it's very slow but it's it's gradual you know yeah yeah at first it was it is a it's not the like it's not what it was it was a meat factory um where i would go and it's not my ideal job but i was happy um it i was happy to help um i was happy to go there and help them out and like they've changed things now they will happily won't be back but because of covid i had to stop and not go there and stuff and and everything and um very cold very cold yeah i can imagine but yeah um i think they've got now that small environments now that you can go um and the whole that was uh i think i've got a discount on the turkey it's christmas it's the little things yeah and what a discount they should have given you the turkey yeah that's what i was thinking i wanted probably because i wasn't there full time i think you have to be there full time like i i did get you weren't you weren't eligible for the complimentary turkey no no i got i got um i had this little thob i think i still have it like you thob it in and out like they paid me because they really liked me um and that was a monthly payment so it's one of the things i missed i was surprised not getting paid and with that going there and stuff um but it was a nice experience and i if i was want some extra they would always be happy with me being there and stuff um but yeah the turkey um christmas turkey was was nice and old but wouldn't be nice just to have it for free completely yeah exactly well i mean you know i i do think that it's you know it's it's worth worth thinking about for anyone listening to us ramble to each other um it's worth thinking about because you know i i would i would say that some exposure to the neurotypical landscape is important just as my my my opinion i do think that even if it's just that you you join a sports club or you join a gaming club that's not just people from special needs schools it's a whole host of different people from different backgrounds and neurotypes and whatever i i feel like that for me would be a better model than just stick me in mainstream school um so that i can learn to get on with non-autistic people because it's not that productive as a concept um just stick someone in they'll adapt or change it's not like that people people get excluded people have really difficult times people become mental health they get traumatized by experiencing mainstream schools and i do i do think that you know having that more sort of balanced approach um being an environment that's better better suited and fit and molded around you is is obviously going to be better i think that you know where the the the mystery is is you know is it going to in what in what specific ways is that going to impact you in adult life getting a job mostly being being the key bit and it's it's different each each area of every area of work is different and obviously there'll be there'll be different standards and different requirements and you know maybe some jobs you don't even need to talk to anybody you just get on with it and they pay you to do it but you know just to kind of move it on and sort of round things up i'm going to end up with a little bit of a round-up question is mainstream or scn education better for autistic students um i think this is your opinion this is your opinion i'm not asking you for the gospel all right my uh my opinion i am in my experience that i think a special school environment is a very much better place people with autism but just to say that like we've touched on before it's not just to be people there who have autism yeah that's going to be all different things um and i just want to ask you um like because there's labels isn't there with autism like high function low functioning yes i just wanted to ask you like your opinion on that like what's your thoughts on those labels oh you you're plunging me into deep water basin um i'm very happy to to answer that i'd recommend anybody who doesn't want to hear my answer to that that they fast forward about five minutes probably i think to some degree functioning labels are important in a educational and healthcare setting it's not i i don't think it's good to describe someone as being low or high functioning uh just as it just as i recoil from the the word disability because it's it's it's it's all about deficit and you know in general giving someone a deficit or calling someone by a deficit is not good i say that the the choice to merge all of the the sub categories of autism into one big diagnosis was a bad idea because now we don't have those distinguishing terms and it can it can be very complex for people who aren't inundated with hundreds of testimonials for autistic people and not being in the the autism world the autism community someone someone saying okay ilan musk is autistic right well i thought i thought autistic people are supposed to be in care could you explain that for me like how how are you supposed to accurately explain what you mean by that it's uh it's a very difficult question and i think most people would say no i can't answer that because yeah of course it's um it's it's a bit taboo of a of a topic to to to talk about um it's an important thing to talk about because we can all see it we all know we all know that one person perhaps ASD one asparagus diagnosis they're going to be dramatically different in their ability to to live life independently from someone who's in full-time care and and have been since since we're young and they don't have a job and you know they don't have that independence of their life as much because they need the the care and support so it's you know it's it's a bit of a touchy touchy area because it's kind of the the central question that kind of makes it difficult to conceptualize what we mean by autism what we mean by neurodiversity you know at what point do we say all right okay it's it is not benefiting this person in in any other way other than perhaps one key area that they're good at do we consider that to be not neurodiversity or or a disability or and then and then of course on the disability front I would I would say that if you say that you you don't want to be called disabled or you do want to be called disabled there's always going to be someone who's like right well you struggle in those areas so you're disabled right yes no of course they struggle in those areas but equally there's a lot of positives from that and a lot of the things that are not so good at inherently I can work on and I can build on on the flip side don't call people disabled because disability is not a bad thing you know I'd say that there is nothing wrong with being disabled it's not a it's not something that finds you as a human being it's you know it's it's literally by definition something that you can't do it's it's an explanation for why you can't do certain things um yeah and that's what that's why I have an aversion to it used as a label for somebody because it's it's all negative it's it's it's just a negative term that we use um we have a lot of we have a lot of conversations about language and the best way to to talk and I you know person first um identity first language that kind of thing but the thing the thing is that autism is not a negative term by by by by or understanding perhaps in the the books it's a neurodevelopmental condition um medically not particularly always just disabling like it's not as clear-cut as that and so that that's where those clarifying questions of are they high functioning are they low functioning come in because people need to clarify what exactly they're speaking about it's a very difficult conversation and a difficult topic and it's very interesting which is why I think about it a lot but I hope that's answered your question yeah yeah it does like it's only quite recently actually I think more about this because like I think you're quite right I agree because it's very important in an education setting um and like a healthcare setting and yeah like once that stage you've left um and the term like I think the other time you said it's I very much agree and it is like a topic like I've discovered in other countries that they just call it autism they don't do high funds and they're no function they just don't do labels which I think is a good it is a good way but there's always to be whatever opinion you have there's always to be a good things and bad things about each so it is very interesting I think I think sorry I've talked loads and now I'm interrupting you no I was just gonna say like go back to the workplace that with eye contact is a big thing that they require you to do eye contact and then if you do eye contact you may not get the job and I think that that's silly I think well there is there is some some biological psychological basis for that because they've done studies on it and it tends to be the people that don't make eye contacts get interpreted to be less social less open less wanting to talk less trustful and that that's not that's not something that that someone has gone and said to people that you know they haven't asked someone what do you think of people that make eye contact it's you know it's it's a scientific study so they remove those variables and that's what people think about it and I think you know I can't blame people for for working the way that we've worked blame them for their their psychology and the biology that they have but I definitely encourage people to kind of learn about autism and just think okay maybe I can get rid of that bias a little bit and and listen to someone as as they are and what they can do and that kind of thing well I'm I would love to talk to you a long long much much more time can tell that it's the end of the podcast struggle with the rounding up that's the that's the always the issue I would love to talk to you more but we do need to somewhat stick to time I asked my instagram peoples what questions they want to ask and so far I have received zero replies which is grand I should have been a bit more on it this is preceding lots of questions about changing my instagram handle from Asperger's growth to something else so that may have had an impact on that but I guess I'll go I'll go on to Quora and see if I can find some some good questions so looking at some of the the common questions one of one of the key ones there is how do you cope with ASD at a mainstream school that's a very good question because it's hard to cope uh a mainstream school um what you look the only thing you look forward to is going home um in my experience yeah you can second that but to cope you're trying to find um like it's a very hard it's it's very hard to cope in a mainstream school if you could give yourself your um yourself uh some some pointers or some lessons or some some advice for younger self what kind of thing would you tell them I'll probably say um like if you're going to you've got to try and get through the day um because it's hard like always feeling like it's locker lockers like always feeling like where that is um so I'm going to get in it and get stuff because I even at special schools I was never the trustworthy other locker so I'm going in there he was of that one person uh and stuff so yeah felt some point as I would say it's just um it's hard to say be positive because you're not it's it's always negative and depressed I had in that experience um maybe go to a teacher that you you like if you do um because there was there was one at least one that was okay yeah um but sometimes there's not it's quite rare but if you have someone or or give your parents a call or or someone that you can um like helped you get through that day because it's very hard because if you're late it's even stressful like it's hard because in mainstream school you go to teachers that you don't know that well sometimes you don't always have the same one um it's a bigger environment which is more stressful yeah because if you're organized or if you if you're organized even if you're organized person um it's stressful because if I've got everything if I've missed something and and the workload especially puts on that stress yeah because you're thinking about you've got to um complete this entire more you're given one day to complete it and that's why it's less stressful with the workload at a special school in my opinion because you I was rarely given anything it was once every while which is great so that's the difference and even asking my parents to do it for me because I didn't really know what to do um with the work and in mainstream so yeah the advice is just try find things that you can do try and get through that day if you just want to put your own strategies yeah just I would I would definitely second the talk talk to the teachers that you feel comfortable with because you know a lot of the time it's it's good to have a teacher on your side when you when you're fighting for something and if you feel comfortable confiding in them and things that you find difficult it's more likely to be pushed up as a as an issue and resolved um then not and also as painful as it is your parents I realize that everyone's got different familial relationships you know some of them might not be so great but if you if you have parents that you you know that are on your side and that will do do what you you need to do then that is a good a good way to go about it as as awful as it feels being a teenager asking your parents for help um it's it's I definitely should have made use of that a lot more when I was younger I think I'd also say just just be easy on yourself the whole likelihood is is that you're not going to flourish in that environment some people do some people don't but you can always make use of it and you can always adapt things and if things are hard you can you can change it you know if if you're having trouble at lunchtime break maybe it's a good idea to go somewhere where the the bullies aren't or go somewhere that's near a teacher like a library or something like that and try try and make friends through through clubs and sort of outside sources that's what I would say I think the next the next one that is quite is quite popular which is why do you think people who are autistic should be integrated into mainstream classrooms do you think that's a good idea you perhaps have a a mainstream school with a special needs division like an area of the school that's special needs do you do it integrate those people um I think there's lots of good things and bad things because like they feel like they're out of the other ones out possibly you feel like you're the other ones out from everyone else because you're in a in a classroom that I've been a young in my own good self thinking that I'm in a more like not it's not it shouldn't fit that way but you do and I kind of paints like a target on your back yeah like I need more help it kind of shows that where which makes sense but it might be a smaller classroom as well but um yeah it's hard because I always had to actually support schools and everything so that's special I liked doing it in my own time sometimes yeah later on in school I did after help more which it was always a struggle for after help which got more got more confident at that stage brilliant I would say that it is entirely individual and I don't think you should force all of them to to be integrated into the classroom and the mainstream setting both lunchtime break and during lessons if it's not good for them and they don't get on in that environment I would give them the option and I would encourage them and support them to be involved in that environment if they want to and if they can tolerate it and it's good for them you know maybe it could be spend lunch times break times in the special news division probably more likely if if we have like sensory soft playrooms and sensory rooms and stimming stations that kind of thing but yeah I think I think it's a very individual thing and it shouldn't be a policy that everybody mixes in with everybody it should be very individualistic so that's the the two questions that oh I've magically appeared on my Instagram not really not yet it might get a bit of traction when more people know about it exactly so yeah that's that's the end of our little Q&A why I want to ask you is you know it's in a brief words as possible what are the the key things that you want people to take away or key messages key learning learning things anything like that well I want the people listening to take from this talk is that although my experience in a special school or mainstream school was like how I've said it is it it's not going to be like that for everyone like it all depends on the teachers all depends on the school all depends on the setting and the environment but for me I flourished once I joined got used to special school and yeah so I don't think if I was at mainstream I'm not sure if I'd be as confident as I am today so I kind of I kind of say thanks to the people and to everyone involved that helped make that happen because if I didn't have in my life I support people people there to do that and pushing I probably won't be here talking to you today so thank you just be yourself guys and be be inspiring and keep doing what you're doing because I always say on when we do a podcast you never know who you're helping indeed thank you for that Mason brilliant so we have a a new section to the podcast which is a very new thing obviously fresh out the but out of the book it season two special so I asked you to find me a song a song that is either related to the topic or related to yourself or a song that you just really love I want to ask you what that song is who is it by and why have you chosen that um my song is great caddy by me and the reason I choose this song is because in the song like let me talk about the little things before in the song it mentions mr smith um if you haven't listened to the song it mentions that name and mr smith is the teacher is the head teacher of um the special school I went to and like kind of changed my life already joined in there and how understanding he was and everything to allow me to come in um so that was the main reason I choose the song and it's definitely related to the topic because um of the special school him called mr smith relates all yeah so I do like the song as well though it's a really good song um and big shout out to to mr smith as well I um I will definitely listen to that after our episode and I you know music is a really big thing for me um it's a really great tool for self-expression for for coping with mental health for helping other people understand when words can't really do the whole justice um so I definitely recommend you listen to mason's song I will I will definitely be listening to it I also want to mention that another another segment is that we are doing profile of the day uh highlighting people who are you know making really good work out there and um deserve a bit more credibility and deserve a few more follows today's profile of the day is actually aspling which is a creator uh that I know called vicky and she made she's been making really good content for a long time now and she's actually been on the podcast as well to talk about orders and puberty and um really great person sadly got locked out of her account so she had to start from scratch again so I will put her profile down in the description for you to take a look but I would definitely recommend going in following her and seeing what she's about I think that's pretty much everything and um thank you very much mason for coming on if you want to find the 40 ot podcast it is available on uh anchor it's available on spotify google podcasts and apple podcasts if you want to find out any of your podcasting sites I definitely redirect you to my social media on instagram I do a lot of blogs a lot of work over on instagram my website thomashenley.co.uk um all of all of my social media is uh at asper just growth uh but it may be that I'm changing my name as as we've discussed today to something else so I will always update it in the the description if you want to go find that stuff and um yeah thank you all to all of my youtube members who have um you know joint joined and all of my subscribers all the people who follow me and of course my patreon donors in particular mr patrick veddy for always supporting me monetarily emotionally all that kind of stuff amazing amazing man who's who's done a lot for keeping the podcast going keeping my work going so yeah if if I haven't accidentally skipped over anything I think that is all I have to say have you enjoyed your experience mason on the 40 ot podcast yeah I've I've really loved it um and yeah I think it's been a really good experience um I like that you mentioned diet profile today as well because I think that's a really good addition um to it because um yeah like vicky is a very passionate person in the autism community she is um and she actually she came on mine podcast as well um last year so yeah um it's been a pleasure to get to know a person like vicky how passionate she is for autism and the awareness she brings to the community because yeah like she did get looked at with her account um which was a bit got in because we never liked that do me like that much work you put in to your social media and your advocating work she does a lot of work in the in the scientific community as well I think she's um I believe she's doing a doctorate in psychology and she's she's doing a lot of stuff around female diagnostic criteria so she's very good she's contributing on many many fronts but I'm very glad to hear that you've you've enjoyed your time I very much enjoyed my time and thank you for putting up with all of my communication difficulties finding my feet again and uh yeah I hope you have a good day mason and I I hope to you all I hope to you that you are having a good day and you're hydrating yourself you're keeping clean you're you're engaging yourself in mass amounts of your special interests and um you're getting on alright and you're treating yourself kind it's been it's been really fun to talk about really good topics um or important topics to talk about and yeah we uh we hope things do improve um but yeah like nothing for me or thank you and I hope everyone's enjoyed um hearing about a few more experiences as well as uh relating it and the differences between mainstream school and special school awesome thank you for that round up mason and with that I bid you adieu see you later guys you can say bye as well I just forget to say that see you guys and uh enjoy the the next episode on on the podcast brilliant